/sci/ - Science & Math

>>10654369
Yes
Yes

Yes, and I'm going to solve their problem. Everyone deserves a full go at life.

>>10654369
Should OP be considered human?

>>10654369
Many humans are incapable of reproducing, we call them incels (male) and feminists (female), but most consider them humans.

>>10654369
Can't they have normal non-downs children?

>>10654382
Based futurist poster

>>10654500
Tricky question.
OP is retarded but by declaring him non human we would be declaring other retarded people non human

>>10654369
they are defective humans but humans nonetheless. 2 humans can't give birth to an entirely new species in one day, that's not how evolution works.

>>10654525
That's not a concern because OP is significantly worse than any random retard on the street.

>>10654369
>should people with down syndrome be considered human?

Yes, you dumb faggot.

>they are physically and genetically diferent and incapable of reproducing. scientifically speaking, are they human?

Yes, you dumb faggot. A “human” is anything in the clade Homo.

>>10654369
Scientifically speaking, yes they’re members of the species Homo sapiens. Their ethical treatment and status as “persons” is not something that can be answered with science though

>>10654369
They're just north eastern asians aka mongoloids.
This is how the yellow race evolved.

>>10654382
>>10654376
Based, wholesome and /threaded

>>10654369
No
No

In the name of Darwin they should off themselves. Those who don't do it by themselves deserve to be off'ed. The Spartans knew what they were doing millennia ago. A shame they weren't avid engineers.

What are they, fucking chimeras? Kek.

>>10654369
They are human but they dont deserve to exist. Retarded humans dont contribute to society cause they cant. We should all do like Iceland and abort any retards.

The us military knows this well, they did two studies about this and concluded that under 85(?) iq they cant be taught to be useful.

They can reproduce and they produce normal non-potato children. As for first question, i dunno lol

>>10656701
then kill 99.9% of the eastern asians, they all look down syndrome.

>>10654369
They have all 46 chromosomes we do, with the exception of an alteration in the 21st pair. That amounts to essentially a 99.99999999% DNA equivalence. How is this even a question?

>>10654369
>>10656701

How can you have such disdain for people mentally challenged when you are browsing 4chan yourself?

>>10656701
>dont contribute to society
thats communist idealogy

>>10654369
>should people with down syndrome be considered human?
yes.

Just want to say, love how boards like /sci/, /fit/ are generally filled with a more good natured anons as opposed to /pol/ and similar boards

>>10658356
Reality is now communist ideology everyone

>>10658316
>>10654382
>>10654500
You are missing the scientific basis of ops question, he is just talking nonracerealist arguments to their logical conclusion.
He did not ask if they are humans ethically/socially or politically, he asked if they are humans scientifically and if you use all the arguments to grant other races full rights you have to argue D.S. People are not human by the same arguments. You don’t get to choose to you one set of rules when it suits you and a another when it doesn’t.

>>10654376
Cringe
Cringe

>>10658596

>>10658745
>ethically/socially or politically
>scientifically
These are all definitions given by a broader set of definition. Ethically, a human needs sentience, socially it needs to partake in society, politically it needs to have if not knowledge of idealistic constructs, at least the ability to partake in society as a political actor at the lowest level possible, in this case a democratic voter with no ideals.
All of these definition are a subset of the "Scientifically" requisite, as they're all, at the end of the day, what makes an entity part of the human family/genus/species. Its DNA, most notably.

So yes, in layman terms, they're human by the broadest definition possible
They're also human by the more specific definitions given, ethically, politically and socially. Does it mean they can't be/shouldn't be discriminated against/for? Absolutely fucking not, they're special cases and they should be treated as such, doesn't mean they're less human for it

>>10654369
This is the stupidest question I have ever seen in this board. I can't believe a lot of posters are debating this, what the fuck.

>an organism that comes from the breeding of a dog with another dog is a fucking dog.

>an organism that comes from the breeding of a tiger with another tiger is a fucking tiger.

>an organism that comes from the breeding of a human with another human
>...
>Are they human? :B

You are fucking stupid.

>>10658781
>t. creationist

They should probably be deported to africa along with other similarly minded people if thats what you’re asking

You're all cringe, bunch of posers who sit around faking all the course literature they've read when in reality you have the same amount of accomplishments as an average D.S. person.

>>10658745
No, we are not. DNA is the scientific basis. He did not phrase his question using a nonracerealist argument, so that is not what we are discussing.

>>10659633
That's a lie I'm sad all the time

>>10658748
>Cringe
cringe

>>10659654
Syringe.

>>10658316
Not an alteration, it's usually a full cromossome, with exception of a few with Robertsionan translocation.
And there exists case studies of fertile ones

Can people discuss the actual question. Are they classified as human, nof are they deserving of human treatment or rrmorse, the vc question is if having a different set of chromosomes no longer biologically classifies them as human.

>>10656503
why? that would probably cause significant amounts negative emotion on the parents/siblings.

They are effectively the same as a pet.

>>10660331
/thread

>>10654369
>>10654369
He has a better chance of being a successful citizen than faggot op

>>10654369
They are subhumans

>>10654369
They should be aborted before birth, i know that i would want to be aborted if i knew before hand i was gonna b a retard

>>10658745
>You are missing the scientific basis of ops question
There is no scientific basis, his entire argument hinges on the falsehood that all people with down syndrome are physically incapable of reproducing when many if not most can reproduce, it just isn't socially desirable because they are limited in what they can provide as parents and there is a high likelihood of their offspring also having down syndrome.

Its pretty retarded that /sci/ let this thread go on this long without pointing out OP's false premise.

>>10654369
clearly

>>10656701
>Retarded humans dont contribute to society
There are many way to contribute to society.
Downs, if raised like normal children, are known to be pretty friendly and funny.
>Everyone has to be productive or has a purpose.
Your wrong on so many level...

>>10661738
>Downs, if raised like normal children, are known to be pretty friendly and funny.
Someone post the pasta about how they're miserable and ruin the peoples lives they're with. There was a brother of one or something and he said he would throw fits daily.

>>10654369
>should people with down syndrome be considered human?
On sheer technicality, yes

>scientifically speaking, are they human?
scientifically speaking, they're glorified vegetables

>>10654369
i don't like them

>>10654369
Value of human is determined according to his utility to society. Downies obviously have negative utility=negative value. They should be gassed alongside niggers and NEETs.

>>10658596

>>10658596
>anon proposes genuinely interesting thought experiment
>NOOOOOO IT HURTS MY FEEFEES :(
This is sci which stands for SCIENCE, nigger

>>10658781
If you breed a fish with a fish you get a "fish"
However there a thousands upon thousands of different species of fish, each with different capabilities
Do you understand how retarded your argument is?

>>10654376
females are not sterile

>>10654376
>>10654382
>>10654512
>>10654535
>>10654558
>>10654562
Absolutely based and wholesome pilled

>>10658745
Race =/= species

>>10660660
/thread

>>10654369
If dumb cunts like you are considered human, then yes, they are human too.

>>10662229
Fuck off summerfag

>>10654369
Hopefully with the rising rate of abortion for babies diagnosed with Down syndrome ~85% in US and >90% in Europe this ethical issue won't exist in a few generations. We just need to focus on providing more access to abortion in places like Africa, the Middle East, and South America. Instead of feeding these countries and allowing their population to explode, we should put our money towards subsidizing abortion and birth control.

>>10663071
>wholesome
Time to go back

>>10662247
You can't breed a clown fish with a carp fish you dumbfuck.
The argument was: if the organism is a result of the mating of two other organisms then the resulting organism *is* from the same species/subspecies of the parent organisms. There's no room for doubts here. That's mandatory. Thats why OPs question and the subsequent debate is stupid. And you are too for not understanding a really easy argument.

>>10658596

>>10656503
They can't reproduce, retard.

>>10658596

>>10656701
Many retards are capable of performing menial tasks, like bagging groceries and sweeping floors. There are plenty of welfare sponges with 90 IQ who contribute less to society.

>>10654369
Every human is physically and genetically different from one another. Yes they're human.

>>10659254
Are you proposing that retards are either a hybrid or a new species?

>>10663577
It's a goos thing people who don't believe in abortion have more kids. I can't wait til you moloch cultists die out.

>>10662217
That's a rather naive way of looking a human value. What if there is no society? Are all humans then worthless? Who determines what is good and what is bad for society? Everyone is part of society, so wouldn't gassing some of them to benefit the few elites in society also be bad for society? As you can see, your logic doesn't quite add up.

>>10661769
I have worked with Down kids, and about half of those had a very explosive and difficult temperament. It's like a very very stupid person with a personality disorder. They are usually more pleasant than low functioning autists though.

>>10661804
Honest
>>10663065
Oh

>>10654507
Nobody, but you, calls them that.

>>10663631
Ligers aren't lions or tigers, downie. What you want to say is something about a transitivity-esque property you can use to define species from the capacity to breed among individual pairs and their offspring.

>>10662217
so (((they))) must be really useful to society

>>10656503
You know its not heritable, right? Its a mistake that can happen to anyone and not affected much by genetics

if it doesn't have 46 chromosomes or a sense of morality it isn't human

I'm looking at you narcisists and pychopaths

>>10663989
Downies reduce birthrates. They're a drain on resources for the parents and they don't reproduce.

>>10654369
They're human enough.

Are uggos human, /sci/?

>>10654563
Science says why they are born one way over another, not what it means to be born that way.

>>10657179
hurts to know theres a race smarter than u

>>10654369
I have no idea. I have no authority to decide.

All I can tell you is, we have a downie as a secrety for our office and she is one of the hardest working employees. EVERYONE prefers her over the old receptionist, despite her handicap (old receptionist was a bitch, but point still stands.)

so:
-I still think having a child when you KNOW you have a heritable genetic defect, is extremely selfish. For example, midget families like the Warwicks...
-that being said, considering they already exist and we can't just put them down, we should do our best to either (1) integrate the capable ones into some low-level societal roles [like my coworker] or (2) provide care centers for the total tards

bonus points: I had the super menial task of manually scanning 30 pages, so I asked her to teach me how to do it. I tried to just talk to her about whatever shows or movies she watches - but by page 11 or so, I got called to a meeting so I had to leave her to it.
Anyway the scanner is really slow, so she spent almost 40 minutes scanning my important documents for me. I was really grateful for that.

>>10664215
North Europeans share blood with neanderthal ancestors, that are considered humans still. Even when neanderthals and sapiens were not the same subspecies, their offspring is still considered human.

Human category is not the same as lion or tiger category. They are not from the same set. Human goes beyond nominal classification.

>>10658745
ok but if they aren't humans, then what are they?
They're offspring of two humans, they aren't their own species, and they're not dead by any means so why would they be anything other than human?

If I was asked that question a year and a half ago, I would have unironically thought it was best for society to euthanize them, however I started working at a disabled people's advocacy group, and have learned to look past the disability and see value in everyone. People like >>10664622 this guys Secretary provide real, meaningful value to society and others around them. It's a matter of finding them the right job/task that they can handle, as long as they get paid like everyone else and are included meaningfully. I have mixed feelings on nonfunctional people though, this includes NEETs.

Intentional dysgenics though should be punishable by death.

>>10664828
>hurr here's the obvious rule for defining species
>>your definition is circular and arbitrary
>how can you not understand this my rule is perfect and everyone else is dumb
>>your rule doesn't even work
>humans are a special case and also aren't tigers so lets stop talking about rules
anons do you really think this guy deserves to be called human?

>>10654510
Yes

>>10664593
>mongoloids
>smarter
lol
>inb4 asian faggot comes with faked (((iq))) tests.

>>10654369
>they are physically and genetically diferent
That's normal you inbred.
>and incapable of reproducing.
People with downs can be capable of reproducing in fact.

>>10658748
>>>/pol/
>>>/pol/

>>10665409
>>10665419

they should be genocided, tbqh

>>10654369
>physically different
applies to you
>genetically different
applies to you
>incapable of reproducing
also applies to you
>human
this however, does not apply to you.

>>10665427
>t. bluepilled normie.

You know about germany's eugenics program, don't you? If they would have won, we all would have been pure aryans by now.

>>10663977
All jobs low iq retards are capable of doing will be automated in the future. They are not needed, they are disposable. The trash of humanity. A person without hands and normal iq can contribute more to society.

I had a low iq retard in my class that would slow us down. Imagine that we got rid of them and the average iq of the population increased.

>>10665467
>muh contribute to society

fuck off, society is not an all important god. who cares if a living thing is not contributing enough to its grinding wheels of destruction? if a new class of more intelligent humans were genetically engineered, would you volunteer you and your family to be deleted just so some statistic like IQ would increase on chronological charts?

They are able to reproduce and they have a 50% chance to create a healthy individual

>>10666207
I wouldn't take those odds.

>>10665552
Yes that is when all "high'-iq /sci/ fags must cut off their balls to make sure they don't pollute the gene-pool with their sub 160 iqs.

>>10665455
Hitler copied the US program.

>>10665455
You could literally be a quarter jewish and qualify as "Aryan" under Hitler. The racial aspect of the nazi ideals is blown waaay out of proportion.

>>10654369
Human or not, they for sure feel pain, and nobody is happy while feeling pain.

>>10654369

The fact that you even have to ask this just demonstrates your own stupidity.

>>10663598
>plebbit owns the word wholesome
Try passing English class, summerfag.

>>10665419
>le ebin funny /pol/smoker retort!
You are so original! Truly enlightened!