/sci/ - Science & Math

>>10632225
So youre saying bezos has blue balls?

>>10632259
You're saying Bazos has balls?

>>10632265
I fucked that up I meant Bezos

>>10632268
*Ballzos

10/10 bretty gud

>>10632318

>>10632323

>>10632326

bretty comfy

>>10632332

>>10632344
>a fucking rope

>>10632344
>Let's go, and stay
Hopefully, at the very least, a semi-permanent base will be established and that all the moon equipment won't get trashed, again.

>>10632362
seems likely, theres so much momentum from NASA, US private companies, China, Japan, it seems that the Moon will become the new ISS, constantly manned, constantly visited, fucking finally

Its different from Apollo, there will be more ways to reach the Moon than relying on NASA alone, so the US government will not want to be left behind on this new moon race

>>10632363
I guess so. Even if the United States backs out there will still be pathways to the moon (American ones even). Then again, the United States may try to stop others (like how they stopped Britain) due to some BS like how space should be for all mankind or something.

>>10632360
https://youtu.be/E0aBqKZrPv4?t=696

>>10632225
Earth is flat

>>10632225
Did that dickhead really say he was gonna build a Von-Braun Station with his paper rocket?

>>10632433
No, he said colonizing Mars for the sake of real estate was dumb and that it'd be better to build real estate, and that it's our responsibility to build the infrastructure for easy space access so we can build like that in the future. He said his paper rocket and paper lander are going to help the USA put men on the moon again by 2024.

>>10632441
But that's stupid, because you don't have access to resources in a made-up habitat.

>>10632444
>>10632441
Both planet and space colonies have merit, and we're approaching an era where both can be explored in parallel by separate organizations rather than relying one organization who had the monopoly on deep space travel but did nothing with it.

>>10632444
Once you have set up your first mining,refinery&production platforms in space shit will get a lot easier.
Its just that setting it up is such a huge and costly task that it will take a very long time.
A lot of this shit will be done by robots anyway.

>>10632444
You ship them in from planets, and then ideally you'd perfect the biosphere meme so you never need life support imports.

>>10632460
>mining,refinery&production platforms in space
I'm curious what you mine in space? Vacuum?

What would be the purpose of an orbital station? We already got one, and it's a money sinkhole.

>>10632477
The moon, Mars, Mars' moons, are you retarded?

>>10632455
feelsgoodman

The great Planet vs. Space Colony race

>>10632500
Well we're talking about a giant station in orbit, so what would they be useful at in these operations, because as it stands, keeping 3-6 people alive in one around Earth is about half all nation's space exploration budget.

>>10632484
The ISS was a money sinkhole because it was only meant to give the Shuttle and international space agencies something to do. There are some good reasons for an orbital station.

>Spaceport
Getting to orbit from Earth is hard, and it's even harder if you want your payload to reach the moon or interplanetary space because not only would you have to lift the payload to orbit, but also the propulsion unit to carry said payload. On top of that, interplanetary transfer windows are few and far in-between so if something does wrong during launch then your mission will have to be put on hold for months or even years until a new window opens. However, if there were a station in LEO that could hold on to your payload and attach it to the appropriate propulsion unit, then you can just launch your payload ahead of the window and using smaller and cheaper rockets. This will cut down on the headaches of BLEO missions and encourage more space missions further reducing the cost per launch.

>Subearth Gravity Research
While it's known that microgravity is bad for the human body, the minimum gravity required to avoid those health issues is still unknown. A research station using a spinning section to generate artificial gravity can allow this mystery to be solved. This has further implications for manned spaceflight as spacecraft would use smaller and lighter spinning sections to generate this minimum gravity and thus make such spacecraft lighter and cheaper.

>Manned (or semi-manned) Space Telescope
Exactly whats on the tin. Automated telescopes have issues with reliability, mainly that if something goes wrong with them the whole mission is doomed. But a manned space telescope is far more resistant to such problems as the crew can just repair the damage. A manned telescope can also operate much faster than an automated one allowing for more scientific research to be done. The telescope could also be upgraded by the crew to extend it's life.

>>10632484
I'm making this a separate post from >>10632524 due to character limits.

If the space station were planned to be a useful station, rather than a leash to keep the most powerful space agencies tied to LEO, then there are many good reasons to have one. The reasons I gave are some of the simpler ones that can be done now, but there are many more. Such as agriculture, microgravity manufacturing, trash collection center, and as space traffic control.

Don't let current and past politics in space make you too pessimistic about spaceflight. The reason why it's been so underwhelming isn't due to some inherent property of spaceflight, but due to politicians who hate it when spaceflight does anything that doesn't fit their highly specific dream and will sabotage even their own efforts to keep it "under control".

>>10632524
Besos is thinking 100 years into the future, because that's not happening while he's alive.
>Spaceport
Work out in-orbit refueling to begin with, and then his station is useless.
>Subearth Gravity Research
So much missed potential in the last 30 years.
Just strap a can module with whatever mass and rotate it.
But no, we chose to research how bad no gravity at all is for humans.
>Manned Space Telescope
Have you seen how Earth bound telescopes are operated?
They basically have a packed list of observations to do in order, and that's it. A monkey could do this job.

>>10632330
>>10632332
>building artificial mountains
I get that this is just dramatic concept art, but would there be any use to this?

>>10632536
Ski slopes.
Imagine rich people wanting to ski in the most unreal place without having to deal with roaches.

>>10632531
The only one I can get behind is agriculture, really. Because it would help a lot to have it out there rather that bringing it from Earth.
Maybe the first space job will be farmer, who would have guessed.

>>10632535
>Work out in-orbit refueling to begin with, and then his station is useless.
Im pretty sure that it can be done. Its just that no one has seriously looked into it because launches have been very expensive so it made more sense to have everything go up in one launch.

>So much missed potential in the last 30 years.
Isn't the ISS only 20 years old? But I do agree with your sentiment.

>Have you seen how Earth bound telescopes are operated?
No, so perhaps that point in particular wasn't as strong as I had hoped. But having a telescope that can be manned, or at least serviceable, makes it so much more flexible than one that's completely automated. Plus the potential of upgrades is quite powerful.

>>10632561
>ISS only 20 years old
We had Mir before.

>>10632567
Just adding because I'm mad about it.
By the time Mir retired, we already knew no gravity was bad.
So we chose to do the same thing to see how much bad it was.

>>10632567
I don't think Mir counts because it was the first modular station IIRC.

>>10632577
Not to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but I think the ISS and Shuttle were used so that NASA won't try to go back to the moon or Mars.

>>10632318
Literally Gundam.

>>10632326
this is the corniest shit

>>10632774
start learning how to be a window washer. will be a big demand lol

>>10632637
Depends, the one thing so many scfi franchises get wrong is that O'neill cylinders need something to cancel out all that spinning mass so that it doesn't tear itself apart.
That ring could be the counter spin.

>>10632803
That's cute. I want one.

>>10632225
When will they learn?

What do you guys think about the BE-7? It seems like a promising engine to me. The cycle is novel, but I'm not sure why it was chosen over others.

It seems like with the interest in lunar bases in permanently shadowed regions for water mining that hydrolox will be the main propellant of future space flight (at least for around the moon). I'd figured that other propellants would've been chosen considering the issues of storing liquid hydrogen for long periods of time in space. Maybe operations around the moon are short enough to where that isn't a problem?

>>10632973
“future spaceships will make this look like a rowboat” says Elon. Meanwhile, bezos wants to build O’Neill colonies?

>>10633070
I'm with you, hydrolox doesn't make sense to me either, but I do understand not using good ol' kerosene (RP1). I personally think using a nuclear engine for craft that will be used outside of earth for a long time makes more cost-effective sense. But us nukeshills always get let down.

>>10633156
Perhaps lunar bases and stations will just store large amounts of water and then turn it into hydrolox just before a mission. That way, the issues of storing liquid hydrogen won't be a problem as it'll get used up beforehand.

>I personally think using a nuclear engine for craft that will be used outside of earth for a long time makes more cost-effective sense.
Agreed but nuclear is an n-word that the public is scared of. Especially in spaceflight. I'm not sure of the amount or quality of fissionable materials on the moon and beyond, but perhaps spacebased reactors and NTR's can be made from such materials found and made on the moon? That way, such materials don't have to be launched from Earth which is one of the largest restrictions to nuclear spaceflight. Also restricting their use to the moon and beyond for extra safety just for some more public support.

>>10633185
Oh and I forgot to mention. Making nuclear material in-space has the added benefit of jump-starting a serious space industry.

>>10632363
Time to play guess which moonwalker that is.

I know the only possible answer, so explain your answer and how you narrowed it down. No reverse image searching!

>>10633193
Nell Armstrong, Apollo 10, you can tell because you can see the LCV (Lunar Crew Vehicle) behind him as well as the LEM.

>>10632800
Anon, it looks literally like Gundam colonies.

>>10633242
>Nell Armstrong
>Apollo 10

>>10633246
>Anon, it looks literally like Gundam colonies.

Gundam Colonies are faithful implementations of O'neill Cylinders.

>>10633070
i feel like they are really overestimating the whole producing the fuel on the moon part, especially the water part of it.
Kind of the same everytime i read about first humans on mars already ariving while early placed installations have created all the fuel to get back.

>>10632800
>spinning mass so that it doesn't tear itself apart.
That doesn't make sense. I assume the spinning wheel would be there just as a form to adjust rotation without using any propellant. The drawback is that you'd need to always spend some energy to keep the rotation from slowing due to friction, and to maintain the junction.

>>10633259
>i feel like they are really overestimating the whole producing the fuel on the moon part, especially the water part of it.
How so? Do you think that water (in the form of ice) isn't as common on the moon as most people think it is?

>>10633246
>>10633253
Gundam o'neill cylinders don't have the giant ring.

>>10633264
Think of it as a giant gyroscope, probably not the best explanation.

>>10633267
No, the water reserves on the moon will probably have more use as drinking water to future humans then fuel.

>>10632225
I like how they subtly put a literal cartoonish cardboard in the background, as if to desensitize people to the fact that the thing on stage is also made of cardboard

>>10633275
>No, the water reserves on the moon will probably have more use as drinking water to future humans then fuel.
You have a point, but the process to turn water into hydrolox is relatively simple compared to making methalox and water will be plenty on the moon, so using water to make hydrolox seems like a decent first step in propellant manufacturing in space.

>>10633287
as long as it's a first step, not a constant.

>>10632225
I like how they subtly put a literal cartoonish cardboard cutout in the background, as if to desensitize people to the fact that the thing on stage is also probably made of cardboard and paper mache

>>10632536
He literally proposed entire cylinders dedicated as nature preserves. Once you have space mining, the resources to build these things are basically infinite. That is their advantage over planet colonization (although I think some degree of colonization will be needed to develop space production fully); you can build environments just like Earth.

>>10633293
I doubt that whatever you suggested has been done. I'm pretty such anyone who understands even a little bit about spaceflight knows that the lander on stage is most likely a mock up. And there's nothing wrong with making a mock up.

I mean, come on, Blue Origin is secretive about it's developments, but it's not so secretive that it could make a fully functional lander without anyone outside knowing.

>>10633185
>Agreed but nuclear is an n-word that the public is scared of. Especially in spaceflight. I'm not sure of the amount or quality of fissionable materials on the moon and beyond
There's He-3 on the moon for fusion. We /torchships/ now. Chemical rockets to get out of Earth's gravity well, and then nuke our way to other worlds.

>>10633305
but, they're presenting it on stage like it's a big thing

It's fucking nothing! It's cardboard! They made a movie prop and are acting like they deserve applause. I bet people clapped for it too. But it's just cardboard!

>>10633313
>but, they're presenting it on stage like it's a big thing
It is sort of a big thing considering how secretive Blue Origin is, and the recent push to return to the moon.

>It's fucking nothing! It's cardboard! They made a movie prop and are acting like they deserve applause. I bet people clapped for it too. But it's just cardboard!
While I agree with you that aerospace companies shouldn't be awarded for their concepts but instead on the hardware they deliver. But Blue Origin shouldn't be discredited for showing a concept. They aren't just some startup with barely any cash and nothing to show for their work. They have made and tested hardware before, and have solid funding.Give them time.

more curved sections?

>>10633308
Fuck off with that shit meme.

https://sputniknews.com/science/201905101074888862-dragon-alcohol-questions-from-russia/

Two is unlucky number I guess.

>>10633300
>Bro just ship up 5000 gorillion tonnes of soil

>>10633362
This is the real problem that no one ever brings up. Yes you can make your huge cylinder out of metal mined on the moon or whatever but all you have is a steel surface on the inside. What the fuck are you supposed to do? You can use hydroponics but you will never achieve anything even close to a nature reserve and you cant grow trees and fields of grass with hydroponics.

>>10633387
universal constructor when

>>10633398
>When the solutions to the problem requires literal magic

Just like, assemble the elements in the correct order lmao

>>10633402
>bruh just make the matter you need

>>10633333
probably the nose

>>10633360
isn't that because of Russia's life support system? They had a major malfunction which released isopropyl alcohol into the station, nothing to do with dragon

>>10633421
>probably the nose
I don't think so; a nose cone is being fabricated with the relevant structures for the wing root and other, heavier loads. I think that might be the engine facing methane tank bulkhead.

>>10633360
Cuck Roscomsos is just stirring up more shit after the Dragon explosion like the irrelevant faggots they are.

>>10633439
>Cuck Roscomsos is just stirring up more shit after the Dragon explosion like the irrelevant faggots they are.

Of course they are. NASA giving Roscosmos $48 million per seat is literally paying for Russia's entire manned space program right now.

>>10633362
You make your own soil.

>>10633426
>Russian life support system includes several gallons of 90 proof vodka.

>>10633451
>Bro just mix organics with regolith like le epic martian movie XD

>>10633333
>A literal silo component being dragged across an open air construction site with a forklift

What the hell is Elon actually up to? Because it sure as hell isn't building an actual piece of aerospace hardware...

>>10633460
Good way to go.

>>10633470
that’s where you’re wrong kiddo

>>10633470
its a hopper.
Look up hopper history of the apollo.
And shut the fuck up.

>>10633460
Did you expect any less of them?

>>10633468
That's the idea. I'm not saying it's a good one, just what the idea is. But either way you do need soil, whether you're on space or Mars, so I odn't understand what your point is.

>>10633478
Nah dude they’re working on orbital prototypes now. Hopper structure is all done, they’re just adding control shit to it

>>10633468
as long as you cooked the perchlorates out of it you'd be fine

>>10633482
smells like musk bullshit;

>>10633470
I can't wait for it to fly flawless test after flawless test and I can't wait to see how government space programs scramble to justify their clean room memes.

>>10633481
>>10633485
Soil is more complicated than just organic mush and rock dust you fucking morons.

>>10633491
excuse me?

>>10633481
You don't need soil for just growing food. You do need it for le ebin sci fi cylinders.

>>10633496
>I can't wait for it to fly flawless test after flawless test
I doubt that this will happen. But what will happen is that when a failure does happen SpaceX will be able to quickly figure it out and make swift corrections while people cry out that BFR is doomed because they think that its a government program that gets cut whenever the slightest failure happens.

>>10633499
What is your fucking point? Are you fucking retarded? We're talking about the relative merits of space colonies or Moon/Mars colonies, in which case either way you need to produce soil from lunar/martian mass. At the point where you can harvest mass from the moon or Mars and produce soil from them, it really isn't a big fucking deal to ship it into space. Jesus Christ.

>>10633504
This is partially why they’re going to be doing parallel development in FL and TX. Each team builds on the other’s experiences and tips.

>>10632318
>>10632323
>>10632324
>>10632326
>>10632330
>>10632332
>>10632336
Worthless fucking art. I'm not even going to call it concept art, because that would falsely imply that concept studies have been done. It's just a misinterpreted and badly redrawn O'Neill Cylinder. Look at the clouds in >>10632326
>>10632336

What a godawful photoshop job.
So let's take a look at what a real concept looks like. This is what an early space colony was expected to look like. All the buildings are low to the ground, because even going a short ways up, the gravity can vary quite a bit. Take a look at the houses. Notice that they are pretty flimsy? There's no weather or extreme earthquakes, so they don't need to be. We can save weight this way. What's with all the colored panels on the house? That's colored glass fiber on a metal supports. Again, it's as light as possible. This space colony was planned to be made from lunar regolith, we don't have much carbon in lunar regolith, but we can get glass out the ass. What's with the hippy chick and her weird robes. That's just 1970s styles right? NOPE! That's a colored beta cloth robe, meaning it's made out of glass:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_cloth
In an early space colony we do not want to be putting too much of our agricultural effort into growing clothes when again, we get glass out the ass. Carbon just ain't easy to obtain initially so we can't make much nylon either. That's the work that goes into a concept. Now then, it turns out that the OG O'neill cylinder concept does not fucking work. The issue is the radiation. Sure the OG design was pretty effing clever in that by putting kilometers of air between people and the windows we can reduce radiation coming through them quite a bit, but the issue is that we've now found the radiation coming through the floor to be problematic. The OG amount of shielding just isn't enough. Probably not for pregnant women. So it could be a potato factory.

>>10633502
>You do need it for le ebin sci fi cylinders.
No, you don't. You only need it if you want soil. You can use artificial surfaces and grow plants in whatever you want.

>>10633509
So what’s a good model of a modern O’Neill design?

>>10633507
>Just ship millions of tonnes of soil into space bro haha

>>10633510
>Just use "artificial surfaces" bro
>t. Has no fucking idea what he is talking about

>>10633398
The DOE is trying to build a basic one within five years. The organization responsible for the nation's nuclear weapons has a project to build a universal constructor. If that's not some deus ex shit, I don't know what is.

>>10633518
Honestly, are you retarded?

>>10633509
shut up

check out this concept its even better

>>10633541
>The DOE is trying to build a basic one within five years

Link?

>>10633548
O'Neill cylinders are going to be depressing hive cities not let ebin garden worlds.

>>10633555
>let ebin
I have a feeling that this used to be a word but then got bastardized into some sounds resembling a word. What was it?

>>10633561
"lel ebin" I believe
a mutation of "lol" and "epic"

>>10633563
I wonder if this was what the Romans were seeing when vulgar latin became a thing.

>>10633512
I dunno lol, but let me say this we ain't gonna get space colonies if we keep fapping to gundam. We need to find the problems and attack them. O'Neill cylinders are a long term design though, we need to focus on the near term, which is what's the absolute minimum we need to keep people alive in space long term. Long term implies gravity. For this, the tensegrity concept is interesting.
https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/files/Longman_2013_PhI_Tensegrity.pdf
New rad shielding techniques using artificial magnetospheres need to be investigated. That could reduce mass by a factor of fucking huge.

>>10633496
I don't believe in clean room memes but for God's sake even the North Koreans built the Taepodong 2 in a more precise and controlled environment.

>>10633570
Haven't most of the North Korean's issues with their Type Ching-Chong-Long-Dongs been due to failures in stack separator charges?

>>10633576
I thought that most of the North Korean rocket failures was due to using very acidic propellants and not taking the necessary precautions in dealing with that?

>>10633580
Haven't heard too much about them in a while, don't they use hypergols? That's recipe for a RUD already when you combine it with insufficient manufacturing standards.

>>10633551
Find it yourself. Don't really want to publicize it much because there's the chance that could be detrimental to their efforts. Especially when I've just mentioned it with conspiracy theories: THE GAME. Can't have the jonesers hearing about this one. Really hoping they are successful with this. It could change everything. Most of their efforts seem to be around making a nanopositioning system with high precision and 'large' reach. This way they can dip a probe into some stuff, move it to the shit they're building, and back. This is hard to do. It's like moving a lego from the tip of florida to the top of another lego in atlanta georgia.

>>10633586
>>10633580
>>10633576
WARNING THIS POST MAY CONTAIN NORTH KOREAN PROPAGANDA! And yet they were still able to go orbital before south korea. Can't beat commie rocket design.
>>hypergols
RFNA. Makes a nice red, just like the color of North Korea's glorious flag, cloud before launch capable of dissolving capitalist pigs!
>>Haven't heard too much about them in a while
comrade, is not point at sanctions cycle to be launching rockets and waving dick.
>>10633360
the capitalist pigs may be hoarding the wodka to themselves! Alcohol is meant to be shared comrade!

>>10633626
>RFNA. Makes a nice red, just like the color of North Korea's glorious flag, cloud before launch capable of dissolving capitalist pigs!

Based hypergol master race

>>10633709
The environmental vulgarity is what makes hypergol-burners so damned sexy.

Imagine how insane the UR-700's environmental footprint would have been.

>>10633719
>Yes ride to the moon on a literal pillar of toxic waste

Why even live, man?

Do you guys think that NASA's manned return to the moon by 2025 possible? Or do you think that it'll take longer than that? If so, then when and why?

I think it's a bit fast for NASA especially considering how cumbersome they've been lately with some projects. I do think it's possible to rush for an Apollo style landing by 2025, but that may not establish the basics for a more permanent residence on the moon. Maybe a 2030 date may give NASA time to set up the space equipment necessary to not only land people on the moon, but allow for regular missions.

>>10632293
You forgot
>will never know his real father

>>10633822
Reading between the lines, Blue Origin is going to do it, because honestly, if your Jeff Bezos, how else would you spend your $75 Billion besides re-creating the Apollo program for shits and giggles?

>>10632344
How does the ascent vehicle avoid destroying the lander if it's right on top of it like that? Surely we want to use the landers on the moon after we've delivered them there. It seems a poor choice to place the ascent vehicle in that orientation.

>>10633563
It's "le ebin" which derives from a spurdo pronunciation of "le epic" in which the "le" prefix is intended a mockery.

>>10633555
>depressing hive cities
Exactly. Anything operated by Jeff Bezos is going to be a nightmare hive world. At least on a terraformed Mars you can be left alone.

>>10632318
Australians better watch out.

>>10633914
Terraforming Mars is impossible dumbass.

>>10633880
It takes very little thrust to get off the moon. The lander won't be damaged.

>>10633602
>>>/x/

HOP WHEN

>>10634342
Elon says more info on June 20th

>>10634375
AAAAAAAAAAAA IM TOO IMPATIENT FOR THIS SHIT

GIB NOW

>>10634330
There's no conspiracy. It's just an underpublicized long term research project.

>>10632318
Realistically it should have 2 of them conect togather and have opposite rotation.

>>10633822
I'm hopeful, but if history shows anything congress has done nothing for NASA except raise their goals and aspirations then burn them to ashes, Apollo, VentureStar and Constellation comes to mind.

All NASA needs now is Ocasio-Cortez or some other socialist meme to get into office and slash funding so they can feed more Africans, it might come to the point that the only way for NASA to meet that goal is outsourcing to private companies (spaceX, BE) which isn't necessarily bad seeing what SLS has become and the stuff the private sector is coming up with.

>>10634535
If Dems get in next cycle which seems fairly likely given how hard Trump has fucked his base, they will absolutely nuke everything NASA has got from the Trump administration and as you say likely gut NASA by 90% to fund whatever whackjob bullshit is on the table this time.

>>10634408
Cringe but true

>>10633822
nope because as soon as trumph is out of office some other fucker will just cancel all his actions.

>>10632332
I don't know which is more improbably, that humanity accomplishes the construction of orbital habitats, or that we work out how to make nice looking cities again.

How can they make this thing safe? It cannot land arbitrarily, right? So in case of any shenanigans astronauts are stuck in orbit until the next landing window and appropriate weather. Also, are they relying on the same Shuttle-style flyback maneuver in their launch escape scenario?

>>10634872
all it needs is a runway with the teams to handle the hypergols, and it's a good thing there are shuttle landing sites and military bases all over this country
Texas, Florida, there's a few in the desert somewhere
does California have one?

>>10635107
>California
I imagine vandenberg would work

>>10635107
You still need the appropriate landing window and have to ensure that the weather is clear at the landing site. What if the crew needs an immediate deorbit for whatever reason? A classic capsule can deorbit from LEO and land in a random place in minutes.

What will they do in case of the launch vehicle anomalising itself on ascent? Shuttle Orbiter flyback maneuver was unreliable, to put it mildly, and was entirely unavailable in some parts of the ascent trajectory. Yes I know Dreamchaser has a propulsive escape system unlike Shuttle, but it still has to glide back or to another runway, hasn't it?

Any non-capsule system seems to be pretty unsafe due to these reasons. I shudder at the thought of the Starship emergency landing; it's unable to land anywhere except for a designated landing site, or sites.

>>10635157
>Starship emergency landing
if it's got TWR > 1 in earth gravity then it can just hover in for a water landing, or propulsive boostback/TLA
if they're launching from Texas it might be possible for a Florida landing to be executed

>>10632318
Damn spacenoids

>>10635107
No hypergolics

>>10634872
>The vehicle is to be able to return from space by gliding (typically experiencing less than 1.5 g on re-entry) and landing on any airport runway that handles commercial air traffic.[9][10] Its reaction control system thrusters burn ethanol-based fuel,[7][9] which is not an explosively volatile material, nor toxic like hydrazine, allowing the Dream Chaser to be handled immediately after landing, unlike the Space Shuttle.[7] Its thermal protection system (TPS) will be made up of silica-based tiles and a new composite material called Toughened Unipiece Fibrous Reusable Oxidation Resistant Ceramic (TUFROC).[11][12]

>>10635240
>no hypergols
how the fuck does it retroburn to land?
>ethanol based fuel
what oxidizer does it use to destroy the supply of drinking wodka

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfACvTDDv1Q

Soon there will be multiple rockets around the size of Saturn V. Each pushing the boundaries of spaceflight in some way. I really hope that the momentum doesn't stop, far too little has happened in spaceflight since Apollo.

>>10633550
>water falls off the end into space

Good design

>>10635240
>The vehicle is to be able to return from space by gliding and landing on any airport runway that handles commercial air traffic.
So they can deorbit anytime and land on a (more or less) random runway anywhere in the world? Sounds nice in theory, I wonder how true it will prove in practice. How will they handle weather with an immediate deorbit? They have only one chance at approach with some limited early diverting possibility, don't they? Will a random AT tower in the middle of nowhere be ready to handle something like that?

>>10635508
>Will a random AT tower in the middle of nowhere be ready to handle something like that?
It'd be no different than any other aircraft. You declare an emergency and tell ATC what you're going to do and they'll clear a path.

pik 1

>>10635940
Why do concept architects always imagine structures that are incredibly fragile?

Concept designers do something similar with interior design. They imagine furniture that makes no sense ergonomically.

>>10636068
>tfw no space gf

>>10633914
The virgin bezdrone vs the space citiXen

>>10636068
>88
based

>>10636297
That's sixty-eight, Anon.

>>10636308

>>10636308
bottom

>>10636313
>>10636314
Well fuck me and my eyes, I guess.

>>10633156
>hydrolox doesn't make sense to me either
Did your mommy drop you on your head when you were little?

HULLO

>>10636397
HÜLLÖ SCÖTT MÆNLËY HËRË!

>>10636427
>the Scott is a Scott

>>10634458
How the hell does this work? Maybe I'm just a brainlet, but how do the opposite spins cancel out in this arrangement, I don't see how the forces are "transferred" to each other.

>>10636475
>I don't see how the forces are "transferred" to each other.
They're transferred through the connection supports between them.

As this double cylinder station just sits there and does nothing other than spin it's sections, no forces are being transmitted between the sections. Because nothing is happening. However, if the station were to rotate, then forces will be transmitted through the inter-sectional supports by the spinning sections themselves. Since the sections are spinning in opposite directions, the forces cancel out.

Why is this necessary? It's because the O'Neil cylinders were designed so that the mirrors (the long arm things coming off each section) reflect sunlight into the station, providing light. However, if the station had one spinning section and didn't do anything else, then throughout the station's orbit around the Sun the mirrors will no longer be aligned such that they can reflect light inwards. A solution to this is to just add another rotation on the station such that the mirrors will always be aligned. But due to the principles of anglualr momentum, this new rotation along with the first rotation on the station (which makes the gravity) will produce a torque that'll spin the station in a new way that isn't wanted. A solution is to add a second spinning section that spins in the opposite way from the first section. This way, both sections will produce torque due to the sun-alignment spinning but in opposite directions, cancelling out.

>>10636544
A gif of this torque happening.

>>10636544
It would probably be cheaper to just put the station somewhere where the orbital perturbations on the station makes it so the mirrors spin together with the sun. Or use another design.

>>10636558
Well the O'Neil Cylinder was designed abit before cheap and efficient LEDs were invented. So the dual cylinders with mirrors design was the easiest for the time.

>O'Neill cylinders not buried in asteroids

Absolutely retarded, if you aren't going to put it in a hollowed out asteroid you are going to need dozens of metres of both heavy metal and gaseous/liquid shielding. Gigantic fucking windows too, haha enjoy your your cancer.

>>10636562
Aren't most asteroids made out of rubble and thus will fly apart once spun?

>>10632363
Not necessarily, there's many sources of interest but nothing interesting (beyond a tiny private rover) can happen on the Moon without NASA investment, and if Bernie wins you can kiss that goodbye.

>>10636572
It depends on the rock in question. Some are solid chunks of rock, metal, or rock/metal, whereas others are rubble piles or burned out comets held together by gravity alone. We want the solid ones.

>>10636572
Yes your typically ice/rock type will, metallic ones not so much. You aren't spinning the asteroid itself up though, you mine it to build a basic shell and spin your habitat inside it so you don't need shittonnes of radiation shielding.

>>10636579
>nothing interesting (beyond a tiny private rover) can happen on the Moon without NASA investment
Blue Origin is making their own lunar lander. That paired with New Glenn could mean that if NASA changes their flagship mission (again), then Bezos may push for his own lunar operations.

>and if Bernie wins you can kiss that goodbye.
I generally try to avoid American politics so I'm not familiar with Bernie's ideas with NASA, so why would he be against this? Is it just due to the typical issue of the new President not wanting to support a predecessor's mission, but wanting his own? Or is it something specific to Bernie?

>>10636584
It also provides resources for extraction.

I think radiation shielding will be mostly active shielding, though. Put the station on the shadow of a planet, activate the super magnets and electrical fields around the outside of the hull.

>>10636595
>so why would he be against this?

because space exploration is a waste of money anon! we should concentrate on the problems here on earth before letting a bunch of white males launch toy rockets

60 starlink satellites

>>10636671
Cool! When's the launch due?

>>10636671
Holy hell thats a shitload of satellites in one fairing.

>>10636671
fug, it's kinda sexy looking

>>10636676
Wednesday

>>10632324
Is he wearing lifts?

>>10636671
bruh

>>10636671
I FUCKING HATE MEGA-CONSTELLATIONS! Mega constellations mean we can't ever have awesome space shit. You want a fucking awesome solar power satellite capable of providing clean power fucking anywhere 24/7? Well too bad you can't because now a satellite's going to be passing through the beam every 5 minutes. You want space elevator or orbital ring? Well fuck you too, you're gonna have to dodge satellites every 10 minutes

>>10636713
whats the problem if its all in one orbit just move your mega solar power satellite to a different orbital height

>>10636671
what is the purpose of Starlink again?

>>10636713
>You want a fucking awesome solar power satellite capable of providing clean power fucking anywhere 24/7?
There's the issue of having to put a giant EM emitter above the Earth that can be used as a potent crop destroyer.

>You want space elevator or orbital ring?
Something which even highly theoretical advanced materials can't do.

>>10636724
10% of the ISP market

>>10636671
How do you even deploy those individually?

>>10636671
What an absolute fucking unit, this should be a dank deployment to watch.

>>10636749
I would guess the fairing flies around the orbit they will take and a latch holds each one individually, when it gets to where each sat need to be the latch releases and the sat uses whatever ion thruster it has on board to maneuver in place.

>>10636750
>an absolute fucking unit
You must be 18 year old or older to use this website.

>>10636713
Power satellites, space elevators, and orbital rings are all impossible retarded fantasies worth nothing. Mega-constellations are real.

>>10636722
Doesn't fucking matter. The pornsat company's gonna complain about their pornsats flying through the power beam. Changing the orbit doesn't help when you want to beam to targets on the ground
>>10636725
>>crop destroyer
fuck no. The beam ain't that powerful and you can design the transmitter to only transmit to the receiver. Your receiver can transmit a pilot beam which the transmitter locks on to.
>>materials
colossal carbon tubes have been built with the required macroscale strength to build a space elevator.
>>10636759
>>he wants pornography rather than practically unlimited clean energy.
The chinese are pretty fucking serious about it:
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/03/11/china-exploring-space-based-solar-power/

>mega constellation
>not even 10,000 satellites, let alone 1 million
What did they mean by this?

>>10636671
>here's your satellites bro

>>10636671
This is unreal, I couldn't even make out the individual satellites.

>>10636796
2 stacks of 30

Reminder that Elon had to whoop ass in the starlink department. They were progressing too slow https://www.fastcompany.com/90259755/report-elon-musk-fired-a-bunch-of-spacex-execs-in-starlink-shakeup

“No dispenser”

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1127408590157783040

>>10636771
>The beam ain't that powerful
What? A small city needs about 500 MW of power. The minimum laser energy density required to cause things like hair, clothes, and crops to burst into flames is 125 J/cm2. With this known, the minimum diameter required of one beam just so that it won't cause crops to burst into flames in ten seconds is over 713 kilometers. That's just impractical to have systems that big, especially in space. The diameter gets larger as the time increases. It would be very difficult to have beamed power that could deliver the energy required to be useful and not have it be a convenient weapon.

>you can design the transmitter to only transmit to the receiver
By what? Security programs? Those can be hacked, or just overwritten when the nation who set up the system wants a weapon.

>>10632225
that diver nigga better check himself before he wrecks himself, elon's not perfect but you not are not in his league
fuck right off

the last .9 of reliability for satellites costs a huge amount in terms of engineering and manufacturing. By having a shitton, you don't need that .9, and the cost goes down dramatically

>>10636813
Huh, I wonder how they will deploy, looking forward to this launch.

>>10636813
Wait what?

>>10636832
>>10636834

>>10636671
bruh

>>10636857
11,940 left to go

>>10636733
please note that it's 10% of the current ISP market, and the goal is to greatly expand the ISP market to underserved rural locations (many such cases exist in the USA)

who the fuck invited Sven to SpaceX

>>10636595
>I generally try to avoid American politics
I understand, and if you're not American it's irrelevant anyway because there's nothing you can do about them.

You're half right. One of the biggest things that has held NASA back over the decades is it is the president's job to set NASA's goals, after those goals are set, it's up to Congress to fund them so they can accomplish those goals. Both things have to work well and align for progress to be made--and yes, presidents either try to out-of or cancel the last president's plans especially if they happened to be from a different party.

Personality plays a big role in what the president decides to do, and Bernie Sanders is on record saying that he thinks space exploration, human and otherwise is a waste of time.

Because NASA's mission isn't really a partisan issue, Congress usually goes along with whatever the president decides. If one president wants to build a moon base they'll probably fund it, but if another president wants to cancel all human spaceflight they're unlikely to oppose that too.

Avoiding politics seems like a good policy till you realize the people who participate or at least bitch loudest get the attention and thus control over the direction of government agencies. Private nu-space is cool and shit but remember that without NASA's funding SpaceX would be bankrupt already, and Blue Origin will need more than Bezo's wallet if we want to see anything blue besides a selfie of his balls.

If you have to vote Dem, at least choose Yang or Booker, and if they lose stick with Trump soley for space stuff.

>>10636864
Not just in USA but all over the world, there are loads of buttfuck nowhere customers that would kill for even a 10mb connection, let alone potentially gigabit. Myself being one of them, I'll give my connection fee to SpaceX over telco shitcunts with their crap 4g service any fucking day, I worry that telco lobbyists will work their hardest to stop it being allowed in their country though.

>>10636879
KEK

>>10636896
I hope they brought enough Allen wrenches

>>10636875
>I understand, and if you're not American it's irrelevant anyway because there's nothing you can do about them.
I'm an American.

>You're half right. One of the biggest things that has held NASA back over the decades is it is the president's job to set NASA's goals, after those goals are set, it's up to Congress to fund them so they can accomplish those goals. Both things have to work well and align for progress to be made--and yes, presidents either try to out-of or cancel the last president's plans especially if they happened to be from a different party.
And that's why I'm really hoping that spaceflight really takes off in my life-time. I won't want to grow old only seeing a whole bunch of X33's.

>Bernie Sanders is on record saying that he thinks space exploration, human and otherwise is a waste of time
I'll look this up, but do you or anyone else have a source on that? If this is true, then I'm definitely not going to vote for him.

>Avoiding politics seems like a good policy till you realize the people who participate or at least bitch loudest get the attention and thus control over the direction of government agencies.
I know, and that's why I've been trying to convince myself to be more active in the voting booths. However, I end up being disillusioned by the candidates. I didn't vote in the last election because I didn't like either Hilary nor Trump both in their policies and their personalities. Although, my views on Trump has been growing to be more positive.

Part 1 of 2 because this post got longer than I thought.

>>10636907
2 of 2

>Private nu-space is cool and shit but remember that without NASA's funding SpaceX would be bankrupt already, and Blue Origin will need more than Bezo's wallet if we want to see anything blue besides a selfie of his balls.
I don't know if you just had this impression that I'm all for new-space, or you're just covering all bases, but I'm for both old and new space. I think if spaceflight is going to progress, then it needs as many agencies/companies who can do flagship type missions as possible. That way if one or multiple missions fail then there will be at least one that has made significant progress. It seems like NASA has this idea too which their support to SpaceX and Blue Origin. It shouldn't be a competition (maybe a friendly one though).

And while I'll still bitch and whine about SLS, I still would like to have it be done and be used for something useful in spaceflight.

>>10636907
I'm Googling their opinions on space exploration, I've never even voted before but might actually bother with it for this.

>>10636919
This source is about the 2016 election, but his opinions may not have changed since then.

https://gizmodo.com/the-2016-presidential-candidates-views-on-nasa-and-spac-1760875565

>>10636928
>Bernie isn't a space guy
kek
They didn't beat around the bush.

>>10636928
>but his opinions may not have changed since then.
But maybe I'm wrong, here's a Reddit AMA of him being supportive of NASA.

https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/36j690/i_am_senator_bernie_sanders_democratic_candidate/crefi55/

>>10636928
These opinions are a reflection of the candidate's mindset and rarely change.
>>10636937
>Hey I'm online, better pander to that base!

>>10636937
Rather than what he says take a look at what he has done, which is consistently vote against space anything for his entire career.

>>10637038
True. Also he didn't say anything convincing either.
>Rare based plebbit user calls a US senator on his lies.

>>10632466
Sounds like a lot of work, how exactly did all the dirt for those cylinders get in there in the first place?

>>10637390
You produce what you want from other planets' mass, and then ship it with propellant produced from other planets. It only works in a post fusion world with extensive space infrastructure.

>>10636860
Bruh!x200

>>10636671
>>10636683
refurbished fairing too

>>10636671
you are now imaging these as orbital kinetic bombardment ballistic rods

>>10637734
>"Fuck you" Tungsten rods

Uranium would be better

>>10638375
Will the orbital test vehicle have that mouth-looking cargo door?

>>10638446
probably not. I doubt they'll put any actual payloads onboard for a while, these initial tests are just to prove out the concept and test EDL etc

>>10632363
>the US government will not want to be left behind on this new moon race

Hopefully it will not ever again be seen as a "race." That metaphor helps justify a high level of (temporary? effort, but it also implies that there is a finish line after which the race is over.

That's part of what happened to Apollo -- only a moron keeps running around the track after the trace is won.

>>10636671
>Ikea's new VÄNYUS flat-packed satellites
>Now with 30% more cardboard

>>10632466
>>10637390

Asteroidal resources may make a lot more sense.

>>10638459
held together with these

>Suborbital vacations are good
>Moon vacations are good
>Mars vacations are dumb

What a fucking dumbass

good weather for launch day. As always, the launch thread will be up a few bongs before the stream starts.

>>10636937
>>10636928
The last pro-space travel Democrat got shot in the fact half a century ago, why do you think one is suddenly going to appear now?

Shit, lord and savior Obama was the creator of Never Attempting Space Again. Everybody dances to this tune:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goh2x_G0ct4

>>10638656
>why do you think one is suddenly going to appear now?
Because I don't want to dismiss someone just because of their attached party.

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goh2x_G0ct4
I hate that song.

>>10633426
What would they need alcohol in their life support for? Disinfectant?

>>10636572
>The Bubbleworld or Inside/Outside concept was originated by Dandridge M. Cole in 1964. The concept calls for drilling a tunnel through the longest axis of a large asteroid of iron or nickel-iron composition and filling it with a volatile substance, possibly water. A very large solar reflector would be constructed nearby, focusing solar heat onto the asteroid, first to weld and seal the tunnel ends, then more diffusely to slowly heat the entire outer surface. As the metal softens, the water inside expands and inflates the mass, while rotational forces help shape it into a cylindrical form. Once expanded and allowed to cool, it can be spun to produce artificial gravity, and the interior filled with soil, air and water. By creating a slight bulge in the middle of the cylinder, a ring-shaped lake can be made to form. Reflectors will allow sunlight to enter and to be directed where needed.

>>10636671
Another one.

>>10638656
>Shit, lord and savior Obama was the creator of Never Attempting Space Again.
what did he do?

>>10638936
>what did he do?
Other than taking a risk on commercial crew, NASA mission approvals were basically iced. You'll notice a pronounced gap of science mission launches for the next several years because basically none were approved during Obama's years, and it takes several years to put together, test, and launch one.

>>10638936
I think that anon is referring to cancelation of the Constellation program. Although to be fair, it was being slow and expensive.

>>10638946
>Other than taking a risk on commercial crew
How was that a risk?

>>10638947
>How was that a risk?
No political gain came from vouching for it.

>>10638375
Oh shit, that's not even half of the thing? Hot damn, Starship is huge.

>>10639171
What am I even looking at?

>>10639210

>>10639213
Thank you. Maybe it's my tired eyes, but that doodle on his welding mask looks like a crude penis.

>>10639171
>>10639213
Good old workplace banter.
My favorite with that kind of welding caps is putting a piece of paper in between the glasses, watching somebody trying to weld like that and how long he needs to figure it out is hilarious.

>>10639222
No it's obviously a crude sketch of a spaceship.

oh yeah, I've been there before
fuck sensing lines

>>10633308
no there is not
you have to sift literal gigatons of regolith per tiny bit of He3
The only way we're getting that shit is if we make it ourselves, or suck it from Saturn

>>10639429
This. You're better off mining water for hydrolox, or the aluminum to make hybrid motors.

>>10635254
>how the fuck does it retroburn to land?
To deorbit it uses ethanol fuels and oxygen, and to land it glides, dummy.

>>10638656
>Never Attempting Space Again
kek. I'm stealing this shit

The instant you realize space flight is up to the billionaires, that is the moment you realize it will never actually happen.

>>10639589
>hybrid motors
Absolute shit. On the moon you don't really care that much about Isp or Mass fraction for your ISRU rockets since you can very easily do single stage to orbit and return. Rather than use solid aluminum, which is ridiculously time consuming and energy inefficient to produce as a fuel since it needs to be finely divided into nanoparticle dust, just melt the aluminum and use it like a normal liquid rocket propellant. That's feasible so long as your tanks are made of steel and the entire aluminum plumbing system is well insulated. More feasible than producing aluminum metal micro-particulate dust in huge quantities.

space fever-dreams will destroy capitalism

>>10639691
>molten aluminum + liquid oxygen engine
What? Is that even a thing? Also, I'm pretty sure that such a propellant will have storing issues as the aluminum would either have to be kept at liquid temperatures via active heating, or store the aluminum as a powder and then heat it just before it reaches the engine. Either way, I'm sure that the power and plumbing necessary for such an engine will far outweigh the benefits of using such a bizarre propellant. While grinding aluminum to a powder is both power and time consuming to make, it can be stored and used by using relatively little power. While the engine you proposed would need to carry the extra equipment necessary to either keep the aluminum liquid or melt it shortly before use. Both of which adds complexity to a spacecraft that can be easily dropped by using alternatives.

>>10639689
>The instant you realize space flight is up to the billionaires, that is the moment you realize it will never actually happen.
Why exactly?

>>10639429
>suck it from Saturn
Why does everyone say Saturn/Jupiter for helium 3? They both have super deep gravity wells and orbital velocity just above their atmospheres is huge, don't be fooled by Saturn's ~1 g 'surface' gravity. Uranus is unironically the best place in the solar system to acquire helium 3, because it's the least massive gas giant. Its atmosphere contains enough heavier gasses at depths shallow enough to have survivable pressures and temperatures that regular hydrogen balloons work, meaning gas harvesters and concentrators don't need to use nuclear thermal ramjets to fly or hover in place. A vehicle looking to mine helium 3 from Uranus would brake into the atmosphere from low orbit, slow down to subsonic speeds to deploy large inflatable bags filled with hydrogen, and slow to a relative stop compared to the wind currents surrounding it. The vehicle would intake atmosphere and compress it to liquefy anything that wasn't hydrogen or helium, dump the liquids, and pass the gasses into a cryocooler chamber, to liquefy the hydrogen and separate it from the helium. The helium itself would then be separated into helium 4 waste and helium 3 product, the latter of which would be put into a storage bottle and compressed and cooled until liquid. Once the helium tank was full the vehicle would stop mining and use the liquid hydrogen it made as a by-product in its nuclear thermal ramjet-rocket hybrid engines to accelerate back up to orbital speeds. Insert skyhooks as necessary if you don't accept a vehicle could have the delta V requirements necessary.

>>10639706
Don't underestimate the absolute NIGHTMARE of trying to make ultra high surface area aluminum. The thing about aluminum is that it galls up, so as you grind and grind it tends to just stick back together. This is even more true for aluminum metal particles that are in a vacuum, because no oxide layer has a chance to form, meaning the microscopic metal particles simply weld instantly on contact even when cold.

Yeah, melting the aluminum and using it as a liquid would be more tricky, sort of. Actually the only tricky thing would be keeping the aluminum hot, which in a highly insulating vacuum like space is not so hard. Powderized metal on the other hand, how the fuck do you even pump that? You can't, that's how. With molten aluminum all you really need is to have your ground service equipment fuel storage tank preheat the aluminum to a thousand degrees (~330 degrees above melting) to give lots of thermal overhead, and have the vehicle carry a few heating elements in some key areas like the engine plumbing so if the metal does cool and harden it can be remelted to clean out of the pipes. A Moon to orbit Shuttle lifting off with 200 tons fo molten aluminum won't need to worry about the metal cooling off before it reaches orbit, or even before it's come back down to land, since in the main fuel tank it'd have several dozen cubic meters of red hot metal leftover on orbit, and that kind of thermal mass takes a LONG time to cool off.

Possibly the second most challenging thing about the idea would be the engine cycle itself, since it'd need to use liquid oxygen as the coolant rather than liquid fuel (since the fuel is very hot to begin with in this case), and would probably need to be an expander cycle engine since both staged combustion and gas generator engine cycles are obviously impossible with aluminum fuel due to the exhaust product.

>>10639740
Also, another weird thing, dumping more-than-stoichiometric amounts of oxygen into the combustion chamber with the aluminum fuel would actually make the engine more efficient, because oxygen is a lighter exhaust product than aluminum or aluminum oxide. This is exactly why hydrogen fueled engines always use way more hydrogen than the oxygen they pump could burn, the average velocity of a gas particle of a lighter mass at a given temperature is more than directly proportionally higher than that of a higher mass molecule, which means even though adding lighter gas that doesn't react reduces the temperature, the overall average velocity of propellants actually goes up, at least to a point. Anyway, any aluminum-burning rocket would necessarily also be a fully oxygen-rich engine, including the main combustion chamber, which is not true of any other rocket engine that exists today (RD-180 for example uses an oxygen rich preburner but the engine itself overall uses much more fuel than oxygen, meaning the engine is fuel rich).

>>10639740
>>10639746
I like how much thought you put into this. Good job! However, given how many technological hurdles such an engine would need to overcome, it may just be easier to use hydrolox instead of alumilox.

On top of that, I have absolutely no idea on the performance. Even RPA doesn't know what to do with it. But I guess that it won't get a specific impulse greater than 300 seconds. Which I don't think is good enough to justify alumilox over other options.

>>10639740
so what you're saying is boiling zinc is actually a potential thing?

>>10639756
Dunno about that, but fucking mercury was considered at one time because of its density.

some short vids too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkmxDqNBpNQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4PEFllBmJ8

>>10636725
Orbital rings do not require highly advanced materials like space elevators do.

is this an OSHA approved standing surface?

>>10639803
ok Niven

>>10639804

>>10639782
Liquid lithium too, which in combination with some exotic oxidizers gets an ISP of something like 540s.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D_wLk2j7_KB0&ved=2ahUKEwjswbLDxpfiAhVCheAKHXG9D6EQwqsBMAl6BAgDEAU&usg=AOvVaw1lVuizDCAA8EflcAIXQ_Po
>stupid mobile links

>>10639811
https://youtu.be/_wLk2j7_KB0

>>10638656
AYO HOL UP

>>10639682
>To deorbit it uses ethanol fuels and oxygen
>oxygen
So it's not a long lived vehicle? And it cannot stay docked for long periods of time at all?

>>10639905
HTP is also an option for an oxidizer.

>>10639811
yeah, I'd like someone to try pentaborane + dioxygen difluoride
>sound of Glushko rolling in his grave

>>10639691
>>10639706
>What? Is that even a thing?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALICE_%28propellant%29
designed specifically with ISRU in mind

>>10639913
>When 0.2 (mL) of liquid 02F2 was added to 0.5 (mL) of liquid CH4 at 90°K., a violent explosion occurred
Seems a charming component to work with.

>>10632293

>>10639682
LOx?

>>10639810
>>10639806
That bracing doesn't look sturdy enough for those thrusters

>>10640176
Anything designed for mass reduction looks too fragile for its purpose.

>>10640183
If this is supposed to be an aerodynamic model, why are they tacking all this shit on the outside?

>>10640191
>If this is supposed to be an aerodynamic model, why are they tacking all this shit on the outside?

At this point its safe to say it's a subsystems hardware and avionics model.

>>10640191
Cause its not, its the testbed to make sure the engines and flight control software is doing what its supposed to. Starship prototype is still under construction.

>>10640191
Its not an aero model, it's a flying engine integration and systems test stand

HOP WHEN?

>>10633842
He rejected his real father when he attempted to meet like 5 years ago.Bezos biological dad died shortly after

>>10640612
I mean, compared to Elon’s father anyone is better

sprung time

>>10640742
Why not just fly to the moon with a sprung tent, Elon?

>>10640865
Obviously the best way to the moon is to jump on a trampoline while wearing moonshoes and have your fat friend hit you with that double jump.

>>10639928
Oh yeah, especially since fluorine and generally anything including fluorine is aggressively corrosive to anything without a special coating, will ignite at most all temperatures and in any environment with some material to consume, burn hot enough and persistently enough to light things like ceramics, metals and concrete on fire, and is a powerful neurotoxin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAhiqGZCwNQ

>Spent sleepless nights figuring out NASA's timeline
>It goes beyond 2030
>NASA is planning bigger things in the future
>Mfw 2025 is the "Jump" period

>>10641004
take an axe to everything past the current president's term, it'll all make much more sense then

>>10641022
This. Do you really think that Republicans and Democrats will cooperate even with China slowly upstaging America in spaceflight? No.

>>10641042
>>10641022

>>10641042
Maybe china collapses into a civil war before they catch up.

>>10641042
Do you really think China will manage to pull out crewed Moon mission before 2025?
Their next generation space capsule is not ready, their super heavy rocket exist only on paper. It impossible to close this gap in less than 5 years, even if everything will went smoothly.

>>10641380
>Do you really think China will manage to pull out crewed Moon mission before 2025?
No. Their missions are set on a 2030s landing IIRC.

>Their next generation space capsule is not ready, their super heavy rocket exist only on paper.
So just like Orion and SLS?

>It impossible to close this gap in less than 5 years, even if everything will went smoothly.
True, but unlike NASA, China won't have their progress reset every 4 or 8 years due to political infighting. They've been making some pretty steady progress.

>>10641400
>So just like Orion and SLS?

Your doing a massive disservice to the SLS here by calling it a paper rocket, every piece of EM-1 has already been built, it just needs to be assembled which is off course happening slowly...

https://twitter.com/MarkKirasich/status/1127723130913533952

hum

>>10641504
I was speaking in hyperbole, but if the X-33 (and tons of other aerospace projects) had taught me anything its that something can be 95% built before getting canned and that any piece of aerospace technology should be considered "paper only" until its actually built and used.

>>10641507
why are they so fucking fast
there was nothing there this morning

>>10641513
>X-33
>95%

More like 85% but yeah.

>>10641513
>Ares 1
it's not even safe then, anon

>>10641526
>mfw I have a medallion flown on Ares I-X
Whenever I look at it, the irony and frustration of our space program is that much more palpable. Human rating that thing would have been possible, although perhaps a silly idea in the end. Still it would have been better than the present 8+ years of humiliation. I wonder what it feels like for all those guys who worked on those killed projects.

>>10641615
>>10641526
Wasn't there a major issue with the Ares caused by excessive booster vibration?

>>10641625
they put a crew capsule on the end of an SRB, anon
solids have very little place in human spaceflight
I guess they're okay if you're making them out of moonrocks

>>10641615
>I wonder what it feels like for all those guys who worked on those killed projects.
I don't know, but if NASA's recent push for the moon gets canned by the next president then I'm abandoning my dreams to work at NASA because I don't want to find out what that feels like.

>>10641625
>Wasn't there a major issue with the Ares caused by excessive booster vibration?
Yes. IIRC, it wouldn't hurt the crew in any way. It was just annoying enough to make it impossible to pilot the rocket manually. What really killed the Ares 1 was the safety issues during a launch abort.

>>10641627
>solids have very little place in human spaceflight
They do as long as the designers respect the unique safety challenge associated with solids.

>>10641042
half the democrats are open traitors, and the other half are vaguely subtle about it
half the republicans are corrupt and immersed in embezzlement, while the other half are aspirants of the same
The US is a shit show, and will never again achieve anything of note
the only hope left is private industry shouldering absolutely everything itself

>>10641840
Don't discount NASA just yet. They've set up alot of industry such that if either party tries to cancel it, then they'll get lobbied by a bunch of upset contractors. The resulting program is a slow bloated mess, but hopefully it'll still make progress cross-administrations. And once it makes progress, there may be new-founded encouragement to trim the extra fat.

>>10640630
Elon's father is based. Name one thing he did wrong.

>>10641910
>Name one thing he did wrong.
He didn't name his son something memeier.

>>10642057
K E K

static fire has happened. Full stack, ala pre-amos 6, since it's an internal SpaceX mission so no customers to please

progress

>>10642092
>>10642095
>>10642098
Awesome! Any estimations when the orbital hopper will be done?

>>10642109
~June

>>10642057
Talk about an unironic kek

New thread when?

>>10642330
Never. Spaceflight is dead. We /money4programs/ now.

>>10642330
make one fag

https://spaceflightnow.com/2019/05/13/trump-adds-1-6-billion-to-nasas-2020-budget-request-to-kick-start-2024-artemis-moon-mission/

New thread:
>>10642498

>>10642431
I guess Trump browses 4chan