/sci/ - Science & Math

>>10623723
Consider the job market: all of your competition in the job market is retarded, autistic, or mentally ill.

Nice reddit spacing.

>>10623746
Spacing as to make test more easily readable is “reddit spacing” now
You’re a faggot, and even worse probably a cs major

>>10623738
This. Having any level of competence gets you the $100k+ programming job. The rest will fade into $60k-$70k codemonkey obscurity

Where can I find a collection of all these CS graduate memes
Now that I’m a year into my classes I can fully appreciate them

>>10623746
>I put dragon dildo up my ass while programming

>>10623749

>>10623723
Heh. Sounds like you were a lazy stuck up asshole in high school and now go to a shitty non-competitive university. Go on, tell us the acceptance rate of your uni. I bet it's more than 50%.

>>10623723
We literally warned you every day.

>>10623723
You go to a bad school.

CS majors at my school are all ultra tryhards who take a lot of the same math classes as pure math majors.

>>10623738
>>10623751
These. Its over a decade old at this point, but from my experience it's still surprisingly accurate
https://blog.codinghorror.com/why-cant-programmers-program/
The number of "developers" I've met that look at me in awe because you've found the [math] \mathcal { O } \left ( n^3 \right ) [/math] bottleneck in their shitty code and managed to optimize it away to [math] n \ln (n) [/math] is honestly astounding to me.

I mean my background isn't in this field so I was a little nervous entering the industry, turns out I never had to worry.

>>10623723
You should have done CpE desu. All the retards get BTFO in physics and EE courses. The only relevant CS classes you miss are theory of computation and algorithm analysis but these are easy to self study because CSfags don't do these in depth.

>>10623723
Israel is new "Sillicon Valley" the old one in CA is being destroyed with diversity quotas and meme education.
Just look up Yuri Bezmenov about subversion (making people study useless things and cheering for SJWs and feminists/trannies all the useless stuff),
and "Israel new silicon valley" plenty of videos by various media, including MSM, no secrets, no conspiracy theories.

>>10623723
Maybe you shouldn't have gone to a shit uni brother.

>>10623857
It’s in the AAU, so statistically not a shit university.
The engineering programs are great, I’ve seen them. It’s CS in particular that is dogshit minus a couple of professors. And those professors that don’t suck everyone hates because “they’re so hard we’re never gonna use this”

>>10623868
>AAU
No idea what AAU is, give me the uni name or stop lying.

>>10623723

>>10623723
>Like programming
>think about studying compsci
>/sci/ is scaring me away from it
So should I do it or not?

>>10624004
>>Like programming
>>think about studying compsci
You're the cancer OP is describing

>>10624004
Depends. Would you rather work at McDonalds with a Math degree or make money with a CS one?

>>10623723
>what the FUCK is up with transsexuals and programming

One of the great mysteries of life

They say The Architect from the movie The Matrix who coded everything in the universe is actually trans. Might be true since the Wazowski Brother went through gender reassignment surgeries.

>>10623856
It's not working so well for them is it?

>>10624140
>One of the great mysteries of life
Not really. The answer is autism and anime.

>>10624014
>make money with a CS one
you mean make money for a company for 6 months and then be immediately replaced?

>>10623877
I think he's talking about this.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Universities

Bunch of shit with gold leaf sprinkled in. And I doubt OP's uni is a sprinkle.

>>10624292
This is only the case for code monkeys.

if mod(n,2) = 0
print("even")
else
print("odd")
end

>>10624527
whoa dude, would've NEVER figured that out. Thanks for the post!

>>10624535
>seething csnigger

>>10623723
CS is basically math++ and a CS major is considered élite, capable of mastering in 1 year what would take a math major 2. The world's élite universities (Oxford, Cambridge, Hull) will tell you that as a student you are the best group they have and math students go slower than you and increase your load to crazy levels.

As a CS student, you are expected to master (continuous) calculus, discrete calculus (discrete math proofs, hypercubes for parallel algorithms), optimization (machine/deep learning, compilers), category theory (functional programming), logic (up to automated proofs, i.e. including set theory), differential equations, topology (computational geometry, distributed algorithms), probability and statistics (reinforcement learning, queueing), number theory (cryptography), graph theory (almost everywhere)... There is no functional analysis needed yet, but it's heavily used for PhD degrees anyway. You need to know all this down to the level of proving theorems if you want to achieve anything in CS While pure math & physics progress slowed down, the advances in CS are fast and accelerating. CS is the major of future. Math jobs are shrinking; CS jobs will grow even more than today. The AI revolution is here, from Google search to Uber pool to auto correct to recommendation engines, mathematicians are being left in the dust by algorithms from the 90's and just sheer brute force.

>>10623746
yikes

>>10624527
>>10624594
Most pseudish two posts I've seen in a long time

>>10623723
Is electrical engineering any better? I'm in first-year (common year) and I like math, computers and low-level programming.

>>10624867
absolutely. Big bucks, job security, and a lot of fun

>>10623723
What university do you go to? At least school ranking or acceptance rate, please? Are in the US?

>>10623723
>And finally, what the FUCK is up with transsexuals and programming? I thought that was just some stupid /g/ meme, but it turns out it’s not really a joke at all.

Serious history lesson here. Microsoft was the 1st major corporation in America to include rights, privileges, and rules to protect them. They did this in the mid 90's, only because they had so damn many. Something about computer programing attracts transsexuals and has for LONG before anybody even noticed it was happening.

Not so serious history lesson. How do we know for certain that Ada Lovelace wasn't a transsexual?

>>10623749
nobody does it to make text more readable, they do it because reddit trained them to always put a blank line after a > because on reddit everything after a > character gets turned into a quote until it hits a blank line

>>10624886
>How do we know for certain that Ada Lovelace wasn't a transsexual?
probably because trannies didn't exist back then

>>10624892
>nobody does it to make text more readable
you're literally just seeing what you want to see because either:
a) you're super clever for figuring out a test that spots redditors
b) you're a schizo who see's patterns where they don't exist
I've literally never used redit in my life, didn't even know about the autoquote thing but I still use double spacing just to make it more readable. If you type out a long post on 4chan it looks like a block of text and words that people don't bother reading. Hence breaking it up make it more readable.

tl;dr people DON'T READ walls of text on 4chan cause they're TOO LONG

>>10624899
oh they did, but they were REALLY good at hiding it. Usually don't transition mid-life and are brought up from childhood as opposite gender.

>>10624907
it is actually a pretty good test for spotting redditors. there might be false positives like your case but it's still decent. i know because i spent a couple years on reddit before i realized how shit it was and nuked my accounts

>>10623778
What do you need to show CS competency to employers? I have standard graduate math and physics coursework (real analysis, abstract algebra, quantum field theory, etc.), but no programming courses. Is it enough to just say I know some languages like python/c++/java? Or is there more stuff they look for?

>>10624892
>>10623746
Lad, there is a concrete, easy difference between spacing after every period and splitting appart your topics since the entire internet refuses to let people use paragraphs.

>>10623746
>Nice


>reddit


>spacing
>.

>>10624004
You'll be fine. Most of the shit in CS comes from the "smart" kids (nerds who wasted their time on the internet / gaming) who ended up in CS because nothing else fit them Engineering is another major like this. If you actually like programming itself you'll do well and you'll get payed well to do it.

>>10624011
He's the exact opposite you retard. OP is describing people who program cause they had no clue what it really is and have no direction in life

>>10624004
Do what you want. There is no discipline that is easy or simple at the highest levels of effort, skill, and talent. Just work very hard and try to go to a good university.

>>10624004
OP goes to a shit university btw. You can tell because about 4 people have already asked him to post uni or acceptance rate and he hides behind "statistically it's a good uni"

>>10625062
acceptance rate is a shit metric though. universities fill every slot they can, so acceptance rate is a function of how many people apply, not how selective the school is

>>10625067
>large amounts of people will claw over eachother to go to a shitty school
It's a good metric for having students motivated to try to be competitive. Even if you think that studying 200 hours for the SAT is a waste of time, the kind of person who does it is going to be, on average, less of a lazy ass than the kind that doesn't.

>>10624937
If you've got a github full of stuff that isn't anime porn games or battleship.c and can talk coherently about things you've actually done in an interview you'll probably stand out.

>>10623723
>autistic yet stupid
>implying there's a difference
a retard's a retard no matter what you call it and no amount of "neurodivergence" faggotry is gonna change the fact that autistic people should be rounded up and put in cages

>>10625055
>OP is describing people who program cause they had no clue what it really is and have no direction in life
No, he's describing people in CS who think CS is programming.

>>10623723
I agree that some of the students are insufferable. However, that’s mostly undergrad students. That being said, I’ve never ever met a CS theory professor who acted like what you’re saying. Most were joint in the math department and some of the best math professors I have ever had, and their guidance helps me today in grad school even today.

>t. Math grad who was a CS undergrad

>>10624886
She died of ovarian cancer

it speaks less to the crappiness of a computer science degree and more to the pointlessness of going to a non elite university

>>10623723
>tfw you learn enough programing to finally get these images and laugh

>>10623746
OP btfo

>>10623767
This. OP probably attends a bumfuck uni (prove me wrong).

>x who literally, unironically, seriously shill for NVIDIA
Haha I do this

>>10625128
CS actually means "software engineering but you can skip the engineering first year and the law unit". It hasn't meant "computer science" for a long, long time.

>>10623937
Underrated

>>10624527
Haskell: even n

>>10625178
So about 8 hours?

>>10624940
>one sentence paragraphs

>>10625212
More likely a phone poster than a redditor.

>go here
>supposedly good cs program
>majority of peers are mediocre at best
People in honors classes were cool though.

>>10623767
>>10625193
>University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign has a 60% acceptance rate
>tfw it is one of the top 5 best CS schools
lol umad?

>>10625206
that's very generous

>>10625227
Everyone shits on Illinois, but in secret, this is the best state. Cold keeps the pussies out.

>>10623723
>considering CS
>not becoming a trap
Are you retarded or something? It's common sense that you should at very least crossdress if you want to program.

>>10625227
Grad and undergrad are two different phenomena. In general, grad CS is very different than undergrad, in that the PhD program (read: not the “I wanted a pay raise” masters programs that are more training for a specific problem rather than a proper graduate degree) is very legit, especially for theory. I think most major analytic number theory results are from CS departments these days, and theory itself involves everything from gröbner bases (a classic) to harmonic analysis techniques

Guys, I'm doing a postgraduate course in software engineering later this year. I have no maths background whatsoever. What will I need to know?

>>10625227
>>10625289
>Implying they don't have a low acceptance rate for that major
Look at this thread: https://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-illinois-urbana-champaign/2016313-uiuc-computer-science-admission-rate.html

>>10625227
>>10625289
Neat, other UIUC folks on sci! Incoming CS PhD, chose it over CMU and a lot of other top schools / top programs in my area. Moving in from out of state.

Place is excellent for graduate studies. Let’s not do a meet up.

>>10623723
Just pick up another major while you're at it. I'm double majoring in math and cs so I only have to deal with half autism.

>>10623723
>being this booty blasted
Imagine waking up and being this obsessed with a group of people who don't even care about you all because their field is more interesting and far more financially viable then whatever major you where autistic enough to major in.

I'd think of something witty to say, but this is just sad. Enjoy your job at McDonald's I suppose?

>>10625093
>needing to study for the SAT

>>10623793
this tbqh

>>10624004
Imagine unironically taking life advice from 4chan

>>10625339
You're full autism. Math is high functioning autism.

>>10623749
there is a difference between adding a space for a paragraph and adding paragraphs after every line
like throwing in a single newline when your line is reaching 80-120 characters is fine
but a blank line between every line? holy reddit spacing, batman

>>10623723
Jesus fucking christ I know this is a meme but this triggers me so much. I noticed that so many people in CS have no logical reasoning or skills with mathematics. I barely started programming this semester and I'm already a better programmer than most of the cs students because I can understand how to make elegant beautiful code and not shit like that.

>>10625218
those 2 are equivalent.

>>10624527
You must be from /g/.

>>10625806
Making elegant code has nothing to do with maths.

>>10623793
CE has very little to do with CS as a field. This becomes abundantly clear once you look at what these departments research, though I suppose I see a lot of overlap in graphics and embedded systems. That being said, the “theory” in CE is more about semiconductors, solid state, and research into building computers, while CS is more about complexity, theory of computation, and examining “what can be done” from a mathematician’s perspective.

I would say CS is far more interesting in grad school as you divorce yourself from most considerations around “coding,” or “software solution,” which is what /sci/ eats up as being CS nowadays. It’s annoying because I do math research, my domain isn’t just discrete phenomena, and I attend both TCS and math conferences, but here somehow I’m still lumped into either “hurr you’re a software boy” or “hurr just wanna dick around with circuits all day”

>>10623793
>>10626187
Also, I double majored in math and CS (concentrating on theory) since I was a math boy from the start, and I had enough time to minor in physics given I came into university with lots of AP credit. Physics, unless you’re massively stupid and think calculations and basic calculus is hard, is easy all the way up till classical mechanics and maybe a few chapters of higher E&M, and even then if you take the time to study around 3 hours a week + 2 hours for homework, it’s really not horrible at all. I’ve had TCS complexity problem sets that have taken me like 6-7 hours a week just to solve, and maybe around the usual 3-4 hours of studying a week, which was about comparable to my math workload.

So if you’re trying to sell me that some diffgeo calculations and integration is harder proof classes where your homework is all canonical results / novel solutions you have to derive and prove from scratch, idk what you’re on about

>>10626197
>up until classical mechanics and E&M
fucking lol you massive pseud retard

>>10623723
Requesting more "shitty cs graduate code" memes. I don't know how to search for these gems.

>>10626197
>Physics, unless you’re massively stupid and think calculations and basic calculus is hard, is easy all the way up till classical mechanics and maybe a few chapters of higher E&M
So...you're saying everything accept for high school physics is hards?

>>10626206
???
This was legitimately my experience. It’s not “hard,” as it was “I should probably look at the book sometime this week to get some practice.” I self studied the first semester of quantum, so they let me take the second semester course in the sequence, and even that was easy provided you were comfortable with basic linear algebra. Thermal physics was easy provided you were comfortable with probability theory. My final course was a senior level intro to particle physics class which was fairly challenging, but not amazingly tough like, say, the second semester in the year long analysis sequence from the math department

Physics students are so bad at math lol. Don’t even get me started on engineering students

>>10626211
No, I’m saying that even junior - senior classes in physics have this upper bound of difficulty based on your familiarity with mathematics. Not even anything proof based. I still like physics because of its foot in problem solving, but undergrad stuff, even in later quantum and some particle physics (when I said introductory, I meant to say an intro to grad school level particle physics), is not even that bad provided you’re comfortable with the math enough to focus on the physics

>>10626218
You're bluffing, nerd
>dude i need college courses to learn how to program

>>10626221
I’m bluffing? Where did I say I needed anything to learn how to program? Did you not read
>>10626197
I concentrated on theory in CS. Aside from architecture, operating systems, and compilers, (all of which about systems but involved programming) I chose all my courses to be in theory. Once I ran out, I started taking graduate level theory courses. This was pretty regular among people who wanted to do math/CS in grad school

>>10626210
here you go fampai

>>10626206
>>10626211
>>10626221
>he had no response so he just left the thread
classic /sci/. CS isn't my field but any idiot who doesn't sit in front of a computer browsing 4chan all day knows that there are the good CS students and the bad ones, and the good ones are usually academia bros anyway.

Anyway, are they teaching Taylor/Morin/Goldstein level of classical mechanics in high school now? Things must have changed from since I was an undergrad in physics.

>>10623746
This LMAO go back to where you came from OP

>>10623793
This is good advice desu. I'm a CS major and a friend in CE. She has to take all the same core CS classes as I did (Data Structures & Algorithms, Systems Programming, Discrete Math, etc). The only good classes she's missing from the CS curriculum is Algorithms, Theory, and Language Concepts.

>>10623723
most cs grads know how to copy paste code period and they get jobs because of that in web dev.

>>10627918
I haven’t seen a CE take more discrete math than say a single class or two, with the second cutting out most probability outside discrete Gaussians.

Again, I’d say the CE has some knowledge about software development since honestly it doesn’t take a lot of background knowledge for most of those jobs, but one should not confuse entry level software jobs with CS. I’ve yet to see CE majors take actual complexity courses and mathematical CS courses, because again, their basis is more on the construction and maintenance of computer systems than actually studying computation. I knew like 3 CE people who dropped the double major after the first proof based class...because they thought induction was way harder than calculus.

Most engineering students contextualize their curricula on “when will I need to pull this from my toolbox,” which is why they’re mostly the first to ask the stupid “hurr when will we need this” type questions. It’s hard to argue with people here because the physics and engineering crowd generally don’t understand the invaluable nature of proof/derivation based mathematics and the math majors think all of TCS is Concrete Mathematics by Knuth for some reason. I dunno whether my undergrad program was good or if everything else was just bad

Can someone explain where /sci/'s inferiority complex towards CS comes from?
I just don't get why you're all so obsessed

>>10628332
Grads as in people who graduated undergrad or grads as in people in grad school? Either way, I’d say both programming and engineering solutions are heavily rooted in stackexchange and ad-hoc “what’s the fastest fix that doesn’t break my system” type work. Just because you run a few matlab equation checkers or do a little proof of correctness doesn’t change the fact that basically most industry work is a bore of standing in front of a computer doing work for somebody you don’t care about

Academia for theory or even applied research is so much more interesting. I actually do feel bad for the anons who don’t allow themselves to go further and enjoy TCS because of the stereotypes. I always see the claim “well any X major can learn the theory in a month” yet never see anyone actually discuss / do it. I think it’s because they secretly understand that Lovasz’s problems, which are the basis of lots of classical CS, are insanely difficult and require years of insight to understand at a truly deep level. Well, either that, or they don’t know and just shitpost. Either way TCS/Math is incredibly comfy, and even the most pure shit like the integer partition problem has actual application in understanding the actual physics in statistical mechanics.

>>10628480
It’s the new academic discipline in STEM and now hosts students who do seemingly little for massive salaries. This narrative trumps the reality that actual academic CS and some industry career paths like cryptography and HPC are almost all mathematics, that TCS is itself a pure mathematics field, etc etc. it’s also young enough that there’s not too much of a title distinction between a technician and an actual scientist / engineer in the field. So since any software developer claims the sort of social status of a well paid STEM worker, you have engineering students in spades declaring they can do it all too. Well duh. Anybody can, but the field’s worth isn’t in anything related to code.
tl;dr CS and codemonkeying aren’t the same thing but people treat them as though they are

>>10623723
Double majored in math and CS. The mathematicians were way, way less retarded. I had a prof that was some dinosaur old lady who thought you were cheating if you found a more clever way to implement something than to use 10 for-loops.

The underclassmen classes were particularly tragicomic. Math majors loved their field and were very good at it, in addition to that field being more rewarding and more difficult. CS majors were... well... let's just say that in a class of 30 people, about 4 would understand what was going on, another 10 or 11 would take the entire fucking week-long period to do that simple project that took the 4 top guys 30 minutes to 90 minutes, and the rest totally blew ass.

Even the moderately talented CS majors are single-mindedly obsessed with corporations. The tragic thing is that, computer science is so fucking interesting, particularly how the hardware was built from ground-up from transistor circuitry into higher levels of architecture, but very few of the CS majors actually enjoy that. Instead, they constantly yapped about which gay, evil corporation would give them a fucking internship/job helping with some minutiae product.

Physicists, mathematicians, biologists, chemists, etc. are mostly enthusiasts for their field. CS majors, even though they occupy and extremely interesting field, tend to be absolute corporate shit-eaters. Most of them didn't even code their own projects because they couldn't think up anything, even if it was just to see if they could replicate something already implemented by somebody else. Pathetic.

>>10626520
This was hurtful to read. I don't understand how people can apply for programming jobs without knowing how to do the simplest task even if in an inefficient way.

>>10628480
Because there's a high supply of software jobs and a shortage of engineering jobs, and probably of physics/math jobs as well. It hurts to see retards from other majors having it easier than you finding a job.

t. EE

>>10628521
kek, I done it once, just didn't wanna work retail and figured I could wing it and learn as I go

>>10623723
my cs """degreee""" didnt even have a theory of computation course or programming language course

fml

>>10626520
This is one of the saddest things I've ever seen

But at least I know that when I graduate I'll be competing against people like this.

>>10624817
ebin pasta

>>10628521
But software jobs can be done by any stem degree holder provided you have enough personal experience. A CS degree is worth it if you do either the theory or systems track with a double major in math, since that exposes you to “real CS” very quickly. Literally the reason for CS degree should be to learn more math and systems, not “software”
>>10629133
I’m sorry to hear anon.
>>10628516
I double majored and agree with this to some extent. My undergrad was well ranked for theory, so we had a lot of good professors and, if you so choose, a theory heavy program (that the average CS major complained about because they thought it was too impractical lol). So I don’t have the experience with anyone calling clear bullshit on me for something like a loop optimization or whatever. I think CS theory professors are honestly just math professors in a different department. I will say that CS majors are the whiniest people on earth who want the minimum for their paycheck and nothing else
What I said earlier in >>10628473
>Most engineering students contextualize their curricula on “when will I need to pull this from my toolbox,” which is why they’re mostly the first to ask the stupid “hurr when will we need this” type questions. It’s hard to argue with people here because the physics and engineering crowd generally don’t understand the invaluable nature of proof/derivation based mathematics

That sort culture is how most CS students feel too. It’s shocking when you show them in the most basic nontrivial algorithms that all the mathematics is relevant, or even something like a diagonalization argument is key in computability. Most of them are completely unaware of now arguments from analysis and orher continuous phenomena are relevant, too.

>>10623723
You sound like a absolute tard who went to the shittiest school. I go to a mediocre school and CS is basically all math for us. Even the NORMIES don't hate math or say shit like you said. Go fucking kill yourself you dumb fuck.
>>10623746
OP BTFO HAHAHA

>>10629279
No one other than your immediate family cares about you, and it will be that way until the cold lonely end.

>He's not a math major and econ minor while learning to code on the side

ISHIGGYDIGGY

>learn computer science
>get paid 6 figures to write python
it's ok

I actually got the job before I got my CS degree; my previous degree was in physics.

If you think CS majors are bad, wait until you have to deal with people who have to write code for their job, but are not software engineers, and were never formally taught how to program. Nothing beats being handed a zip of a few hundred C or ada files without so much as a makefile and being asked to make it run "on the cloud".

>>10630640
>and were never formally taught how to program
>implying CS majors know how to program
best programmer I worked with was a fucking music major

>>10629361
Thanks fren but what does this have to do with anything?

>>10630658
Music theorists get math and systems in a way that astounds me. Myself and all of the smartest people I've ever met were at least interested in music, so that doesn't surprise me.

I'm more so talking about the statisticians, mechanical engineers, chemical engineers, and data scientists who work with a mixture of fortran, C++, matlab, and python who produce some of the most baffling code I've ever experienced. Its not the same kind of baffling of bad CS majors, that kind of code doesn't work, and its obvious why. This kind of code works, and its not obvious why, or how any rational being could have produced it with a purpose in mind.

>>10630678
>>10630684
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yY1FSsUV-8c

>>10630684

They are not solving coding and optimization problems. They are solving problems in their areas.

If you ask a chef about your onion cutting technique he will probably shit on you all day about being wasteful and not efficient, but the fact is if you just want to eat a fucking onion you don't give a fuck about that.

"Hurr durr that baffling pleb way of cutting onions, it's not obvious how he even manages to do it"

>>10626520
>I replied, "This works, but what if I need all the odd numbers between 0 and 1 million?"
>Candidate, after thinking for a moment: "Then it will take a long time to type."
What do you actually need to know to graduate these shit CS degrees? This is absolutely embarrassing.
Are there any good degrees anymore? Obviously the humanities died ages ago (both in terms of employability and the fields being nothing but trannies) so now anyone remotely intelligent will be a STEMfag with both scientific and artistic/humanities interests except for maybe something like Economics. But then the actual good sciences like theoretical physics and math are hit or miss and CS should be good but it's overrun by these fucking morons who can't program something that a non-retard should be able to program in Python at GCSE level

I wonder if getting a bachelor's degree is even worth it other than better job prospects

I'm thinking about double majoring in math and CS, because I love math and the way its logic can be applied to programming.

>>10630684
be glad you missed the perl era

>>10630890
those are clearly all esl private college immigration scheme "graduates"

>>10632247
thats the only reason you should get one. which means you either go to a top tier highly recruited school or the cheapest public not for profit state school

>>10632285
Idk about cs but I guess you'll need it to stand out. nothing in cs theory that can be easily learnt by a math major.

>>10630890
>>10632303

the image is from some dude looking for devs in malaysia. asians countries have shit tier schooling where its all about memorizing and regurgitating. questions in exams are literally the same expect for a few different tweaks to the wording and numbers.

also simply put the dude (this was posted on /g/) wasnt paying enough and getting bottom of the barrel talent. whereas one can imagine all the top tier programmers freelancing, consulting or working for overseas companies in malaysia that pay above average salaries.

a lot of schools (like my one) are just rebranded It degrees. as a note my degree didnt have any theoretical cs classes besides ds&a.

>>10624014
Not him, but I'd rather work at McDonalds with a math degree.

>>10632356
>nothing in cs theory that can be easily learnt by a math major.
Depends on your school’s specialty. I see math and CS majors struggle with complexity all the time at the grad level because it’s all pure math where every nontrivial problem has a wildly creative solution. I remember similar stuff happening in undergrad. I double majored in math and CS btw

>>10630888
No shit, doesn't make dealing with it any less aggravating.

>>10623723
>mathematical rigor
Not everyone needs to be a mathematician, autismo.

>>10632606
You could be collecting neetbux instead

>>10632687
CS as an academic study is mathematically rigorous. The only reason major a good amount of interesting industry applications work (ie cryptographic protocols, new quantum resistant protocols in lattice cryptography) is because this field holds itself to very high standards in theory departments. CS is and has always been a field of nontrivial mathematics

I understand if it’s not your interest and you just wanna be a software developer, but it’s important to know that things work for a reason, and that reason isn’t stackexchange :)

>>10623770
Whats wrong with Oracle certs specifically? Too entry-level?

>>10624004
Do engineering instead and learn to program on the side.

Programming is easy as fuck compared to engineering.

>>10633225
Learning the minutia of one particular vendor/technology/language/framework/library/platform as opposed to learning the details of the underlying concepts is everything that's wrong with ">le cs degree meme"-type people. These are the same type of people who can recite the java standard library from memory, but would shit themselves if given a python book and asked to implement merge sort. Oracle and MS get the most shit because they were the biggest players 10-20 years ago, and its particularly telling if they haven't moved with the times.

>>10624527
return !n%2;

>>10625480
not him but thats the best I can do, i've been here before I was even a teenager (on /g/ specificaly), and thats all I know, im 2nd year CS about to finish my degree.
Im sure I could have been (or even could at this point) have chosen to become a doctor or electrical engineer but like the chinese say "没办法 " - just keep going because there is nothing to do about the past, the ink is dry so to say

>>10623723
Reddit

>>10623723
No I don't want fries with that you math nerd.

>>10628521
>It hurts to see retards from other majors having it easier than you finding a job.
If those retards where smart enough to major in a viable employable field what does that say about you who chose to major in a dead end field?

>>10629200
>But software jobs can be done by any stem degree holder
People who say this really have no clue what they're talking about. For one, most CS majors if they actually tried could work in other STEM fields. This is true for most of STEM. Using Excel isn't as hard as engineers make it out to be. It just normally doesn't happen because most engineering disciplines are barely employable. Why would a cs major move away from their superior field?

A lot of the jobs people with cs degrees take are simple software jobs that some other STEM major could pick up. Below those jobs are code monkey jobs which some CS degrees holders take but these jobs can be easily done by anyone else. Engineers take these jobs and then act like somehow they're comparable to CS students. Its why we laugh at you. There are jobs involving algorithm design, machine learning, data mining, networks, etc. that are beyond what most engineers will ever learn. I'm sure some can, but there would be no point since self teaching will not be enough to compete against actual CS majors for these fields. The same concept applies to a CS major trying to learn circuits. They could but there's no point. EE is unemployable.

>that the average CS major complained about because they thought it was too impractical lol)
Everytime I go to /sci/ I always here you virgins say this but I have yet to see anyone in real life say it. Most people where fine with those classes, they just also wanted more industry classes which are better for employment. People don't go to school because they just want to learn, financial reasons play a part too.

>>10623723
>And finally, what the FUCK is up with transsexuals and programming? I thought that was just some stupid /g/ meme, but it turns out it’s not really a joke at all.
You just feel threatened that the people in CS are also the people revolutionizing the world.
Don't worry, there will still be a place for engineers in the compliance department.

>>10634380
(==0) . (`mod` 2)

>>10624004
/sci/ hates CS because all their grads immediately go into the private sector and make orders of magnitudes more than them while they slave away for a phd no one will read making mcdonald's wages during the best earning years of their lives.

>>10634380
return ~n&1;

>>10635109
a nontrivial amount of CS majors go into grad school for topics that are very clearly /sci/.

>>10623723
That code in the image gave me cancer.

>>10626520
Hmm I am not good at programming and some of these I'm not sure what the code is even doing like the last one. But ffs I know what the % operator does.

>>10623746
spbp
/thread

>>10625093
no, large amounts of people will claw over each other to go to a prestigious school. prestigious =/= good

>>10623723
It's not, any sane individual gets either a Computer Engineering or an Electrical Engineering degree if they are interested in computers.

>>10634850
cope

>>10626520
That was painful in many ways.

>>10635165
% stands for the module operator. It returns the remainder of the integer division of two given numbers. Example: int i = 12%5. After executing this, the value of the "i" variable is 2.

>>10626520
This is a meme. I have never believed this shit.

>>10634850
>There are jobs involving algorithm design, machine learning, data mining, networks, etc. that are beyond what most engineers will ever learn.
maximum kek

I'm an EE/Telecom and I had networks courses on top of math, stats, circuits, electronics, signal processing, information theory, programming, embedded systems, computer architecture, EM fields, RF, optics, and a long etc. of other topics. By contrast, not so long ago I was telling a group of CS Master's students how to set a fucking virtual machine in their Windows laptops.

Learning ML is a walk in the park for EEs. It's all linear algebra and stats, and we're way more used to that than CS people. Not to mention that we knew what a filter was before learning about CNNs.

You just think you're hot shit because you took one (1) algorithms course and you know how to implement merge sort. You're delusional.

>>10635566
Not him, but I am the guy who he replied to
I have a math background since I double majored. My school's CS program was good, so we had a lot of those same classes. The ML class here specialized with learning on signals, and the information theory came from the complexity theory classes. Distributed systems dealt with coordinating embedded systems, etc etc. My school's specialty in undergrad was theory, but we had some hard hitting systems courses. I mentioned here that I did a physics minor as well. I can tell you from firsthand experience that engineering students learning "EM fields" were really dogshit at it, and especially so ANYTHING related to impedance. They got so used to the cases where the calculus reduced to basic algebra that when an *actually* difficult question came up, they were blindsided.

Second of all, "masters" students are at varying qualifications because it's mostly a codemonkey degree for people who want more technical skills. PhD holders in CS have actual math and science chops, since you can't bullshit research in that field; it's too competitive.

>>10635566
Also, it's funny because linear algebra isn't even needed for ABET accreditation; most engineering students learn the basics of elimination and eigendecomposition without really learning about why it works or what it is. They just absorb it from their classes. Meanwhile, proofs involving massive amounts of linear algebra, graph theory, analytic number theory, and now harmonic analysis is the bread and butter of most nontrivial work in CS. There's this big gap between people in CS and old CS majors who wanted a tech degree.

I didn't start to feel like hot shit in algorithms until my third class in advanced topics, where I chose to gave a report on triangulation and had to read through:
http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~chazelle/pubs/polygon-triang.pdf

Each step makes sense, but seeing the motivation and seeing how it all follows is the really hard part. In general, the hard part in this field is digesting all the weird jumps in creativity and turning it into something useful/descriptive.

CS is not a meme at universities like Berkeley and UCLA

>>10635640
>princeton
Lmao at grade inflated universities.

>>10635566
basically this, there was a CS brainlet in our convex optimization class last semester who said he was taking ML courses but could barely grasp basic proofs

>>10635623
>>10635640
I'm not on the "CS is a meme" ship. I answered to that guy because he was talking like CS majors are some elite club only geniuses can get into because they teach concepts that are "beyond" what engineers can understand. Which is funny because he then proceeds to use ML as an example of such concepts, when ML is extremely easy to understand for EEs.

I provided the MS students example to show that you can find brainlets that don't even know stuff from their own major properly in any field. About impedance, we learnt what it was in first year when learning about capacitors, inductors, phase, Fourier analysis, etc. Our first EM course was second year and it covered Maxwell, plane waves, guided waves, radiation, etc (just checked). I'll give you that we never learnt what Eigenvectors really were.

>>10635696
How much of an undergrad are you, where you look at a paper and think about what grades they assign undergrads? I didn't go to princeton for undergrad; I did a report + some original work based around this for an advanced algorithms class

>>10635748
That's fair. I definitely overreacted. I think ML, as a topic for developers to implement, is not very hard at all, but mathematical learning theory is very interesting and a topic accessible after years of study.

In general, I don't think CS nor engineering students are in some weird "elite." I think so long as you have passion for your topic and are willing to go beyond just classwork, you can make most of any mathematical STEM major work in your favor. I'm just tired of being associated with deadbeat gamers who want to be techbros and give the field a bad name.

>>10635793
> I'm just tired of being associated with deadbeat gamers who want to be techbros
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReVeUvwTGdU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQ1ZEjjP_4k&t=7m43s

>>10633262
If you go to a university which teaches specific programming languages you are going to a terrible school.

>>10635369
>when he can't argue a point
Cope

>>10635337
Sounds a lot like non-elite cope.

>>10635808
>My favorite programming language is HTML5

>>10635566
>not so long ago I was telling a group of CS Master's students how to set a fucking virtual machine in their Windows laptops.
things_that_never_happened.jpg
Plus you do realize that makes you IT and not CS, right? top kek imagine an EE so unemployable he has to brag about taking an IT job

When I took embedded systems I thought that class was pretty easy. Yet for some reason all the EE's acted like it was the hardest shit around. Some EE's had apperently failed it multiple times. I was stunned how they failed to grasp the simple programming needed for embedded systems.
The most hilarious part is they actually thought the programming in embedded systems was comparably hard to the programming we did in other classes. When I showed them what an operating systems class looked like that pretty much shut them up.

The point I'm trying to make here is that the programming EE's take is baby shit. You all act like you can program but are incapable of implementing simple algorithms or simple software engineering practices.

If ML was a walk in the park for EE's then you fags would dominate the field, not surprisingly, you people are absent from nearly anything related to ML. ML is just not your field and a quick glance at EE degrees show you're less prepared for the field than a CS is. A look at any top university shows that a CS takes more math than an EE and thus better prepares them for more mathematical and statistical fields.

>You just think you're hot shit because you took one (1) algorithms course and you know how to implement merge sort. You're delusional.
And this delusional comment highlights what I'm saying. You have no clue what algorithm design even is nor are you familiar with the typical CS degree. When you make a comment talking about merge sort you don't look like hot shit for knowing it you just look fucking stupid for thinking merge sort is the be all of algorithm design. You're so delusional you look painfully insecure.

>>10635808
These are not me and have never been me. I don't like this random techbro association

>>10623723
should have worked for data science OP. The codemonkeys can't comprehend stats lol

>>10635808
Also, these people describe what I hate: CS being associated with IT work. This has no bearing on actual academic CS or even most nontrivial industry software engineering.

>>10635947
Data science is not hard dude. It's literally the study of statistics and its relationships to existing models and learning models. Most people don't even go through enough of the pure math to understand the statistical theory (ie the construction via measure and probability theory)

>>10635926
I was in a workshop about an ML tool. The dev had only distributed said tool for UNIX systems. He asked people who had Windows on their laptop to set an Ubuntu VM to try the tool. I had done that before in some early networks/distributed env. undergrad courses so I had a slight idea of how to do it and I figured out the rest. Some CS MS students sitting next to me tried for over an hour. A couple of them didn't even realize they had to download an Ubuntu image to install it in the VM. They asked me how to do it, I told them, and they asked me if I was studying CS. I was surprised when they said they were.

And no, I don't have an IT job.

I repeat, ML is a walk in the park for EEs. You don't see many people from outside CS doing ML because for some reason ML courses are taught mostly exclusively in CS majors. Concepts like variance/bias, overfitting/undercutting etc. are easy to grasp for us because we're used to signals and noise. Same thing for many other concepts related to stats, entropy, staged circuits, filters, convolutions, etc.

Stay delusional.

>got an associate's at a private college
>transfer to uni and less than half of my credits transfer
>looking to do CS BS and basically have to restart
>tfw just turned 23

Hard not to feel like a loser right now

>>10635956
thankfully my theory professors back in the day were hard asses. Most cs/analysis people I've met didn't put enough emphasis on the math so you're right about that. But you can't deny the people that did get some degree of the ideas are a step above the usual "developer"

>>10635985
The fact you take that story with pride is embarrassing. Was that your only victory over your CS overlords stealing all the jobs and all the girls? Installing a VM is not fucking impressive. You look like an idiot bragging about it. Its like watching an old person brag about installing chrome

If ML was a walk in the park for EE's you people would be swimming in cash. Any decent university has CS students take more math classes that better prepare them for ML.
You're just so delusional but you can't see it.
I wish you the best in that IT position. You don't need to worry about us taking that job from you.

xD I have a rick and morty sticker on my chinkpad you got me on that one x)

>>10636003
I can plausibly deny it because most CS people I've met are in academia, and they're among some of the top math students I've ever met lol

Then again, I don't really associate CS with the "usual developer." The title of "computer scientist" does not go to these people

>>10635985
Knowing how to use a particular piece of software has nothing to do with CS. So what if they don't know how to install a VM? What point are you trying to make by bringing that up? They're dumb because they don't know how to use some software they've never used before?

>>10636027
How can you be so fucking dense? Installing a VM is not hard. It's not an achievement. That's the point. It's very easy but those students couldn't figure out how to do it. I was just trying to show there's brainlets in every field. I only elaborated because you said it didn't happen.

>>10636136
as one dude has kept pointing out
>Most engineering students contextualize their curricula on “when will I need to pull this from my toolbox,” which is why they’re mostly the first to ask the stupid “hurr when will we need this” type questions
To most engineering types, the acquisition of overloaded knowledge is the same thing as the acquisition of skills, even though they are two very different things

>>10635993
I dropped out twice. Once from my own incompetence and second when Lehman Brothers accidentally the world economy and I couldn't afford to continue. I finally got back at 33, started from the beginning and graduated with flying colors, one award and many recommendations. It doesn't matter how """old""" you are or how much you have to start over, what counts is you getting down with your tasks, finishing them one by one and getting ahead with a steady pace. Great rewards will be had at the end.
So no worries and carry on, you were good enough to be accepted, probably you already know half the subjects, just finish that thing like you own it. Take it as quality entertainment.

>>10636137
The point is that whether or not one can install a VM doesn't say anything about their intelligence. Them not knowing the steps to install a VM doesn't mean anything other than they just don't know those steps.

>>10636153
>>10635993
Also you will be going there with a solid base of knowledge and experience, both in the subjects and on managing the workload. Most of your peers will be fresh out of highschool shitheads and slackers, you will be the ultimate winner at the end of the first semester.

>Hard not to feel like a loser right now
Far from it, my man

>>10636166
Except those "shitheads and slackers" are ahead of you when you were 18. They have 15 years to catch up. Do you really think they won't catch up to you in 15 years?

>>10636153
>>10636166
It's weird to consider yourself a winner when it took you 15 years to do what most people would do in 3 or 4 years. Even a retard can graduate with flying colors if they had that much extra time.

>>10636137
Jesus Christ dude. If only you had the cognitive ability to see how fucking stupid you look right now. Get it through your thick skull that not everyone is going to be some IT expert like you.

>I was just trying to show there's brainlets in every field.
Congrats. You accomplished this by showing everyone that EE is full of brainlets.

>>10636140
This perfectly describes brainlets like this guy >>10635985
Its hard to take people who bash CS seriously when they post stupid shit like that. They display their ignorance and then like the brainlet they are they bask in it.

>>10636174
>>10636188
Those shitheads and slackers will have a hard time finding a job after graduation (those who graduate anyway) while I already have a job, 15 years of experience and this paper only moved me forward in my field.
15 years from now those who graduated now will have the 15 years experience, I will have 30 and more. Seems like you are the retard here who has no idea how time works

>>10636188
I am a winner because at the end of this I came out better than I ever was. Did I tell you I paid all the tuition and whatnot myself? I had no debt after graduation. Will you be able to say the same?

>>10636188
Not everyone has simple linear lives.
For someone who came from poverty getting a STEM degree is itself a huge accomplishment. They lacked the resources others had and even if it took them much longer they still managed to get to the same level those people are at. According to economics, kids from poor families remain poor so by getting a degree and moving up the economic ladder they managed to beat the odds they where born into. That itself is a huge accomplishment.

>>10636222
>15 years from now those who graduated now will have the 15 years experience, I will have 30 and more.
Why are you comparing your achievements to people much younger than you? Those 18 are also winners if they compare themselves to someone 15 years younger than them.
>I am a winner because at the end of this I came out better than I ever was. Did I tell you I paid all the tuition and whatnot myself? I had no debt after graduation. Will you be able to say the same?
Those "shitheads and slackers" won't have to pay tuition at 33.

>>10625220
How does it feel to larp on the internet?

>>10636165
I didn't know the steps, I had done it years ago but I obviously didn't remember them. I figured them out. Figuring out shit is a sign of intelligence and those guys didn't show it. The dev giving the talk was the first person surprised to see CS students that didn't know how to set a UNIX environment and couldn't figure out how to do it.

>>10636203
I'm done answering you, you're clearly not worth the time. I already told you I don't have an IT job.

>>10636214
I'm not bashing CS. I'm bashing the stupid guy who thinks CS people are a superior race and thinks ML is beyond any engineer, which shows how big of a retard he is if he thinks linear algebra and backprop is super hard to grasp.

>>10636231
Well, what can I say to that.
In my experience people in unis fall into two groups. There are those who have the wits to finish, and there are the other ones, the group you fall into. Just think about what you said and try to figure out the error in your thinking.
Let me give you a head start. If I had to get a job right now I would be in a field filled with the fresh graduates. I go to an audition (lets imply I don't have a plethora of connections already) with these fresh graduates being my competition. They get the 1-2 slots for the job. Meanwhile I have a nice conversation with the HR dude/girl telling about my experiences and get a leading position where my experience pays off, partly by looking over the fresh graduates, a position not primarily advertised.
Your single dimension thinking fails because you have no idea how the world actually works out there. I know your type, met several during my uni courses. I also met a few normal people who were eager to ask me about my experiences and I happily shared some knowledge, I also recommended them at my company.

>>10623723
I was already an employed software developer, but I still decided to study "Business Informatics" at university.

After 3 semesters I nope'd the fuck outta there and switched to mathematics.

CS is an useless shitshow. The only good thing about it was the 2 math modules.

>>10636261
>t. bad CS program

>>10636261
>I still decided to study "Business Informatics" at university.
>Business Informatics
>CS is an useless shitshow.
Are you retarded or just pretending?

>>10636256
Are you saying dropping out of uni several times is better than just finishing it on your first try? Because from what you're describing, you're just comparing yourself to new grads who are much younger than you. You should be comparing yourself to other 33 year olds, aka people who graduated over 10 years ago.

>>10636292
I am saying I wouldn't get to where I am today without those fall backs and hardships. I definitely wouldn't have experience handling difficult and stressful situations as well as I do now.
Knowledge you get at the uni is important but it is not the only thing you will need. Being good with people, handling situations and having the strength to just lower your head and plough on no matter what comes from real world experiences, they don't teach these things at school. The most difficult for HR with you fresh graduates is trying to find a spot where you don't have the full load of the BS but you can learn and adapt, it is also difficult finding a fresh graduate who can handle the bare minimum of the BS loadout. If you read any job descriptions, most if not all beginner jobs require 2-3 years of experience. This is why. A fresh grad without the experience will quickly get overwhelmed and burn out or do stupid mistakes that cost the company dearly.
Someone with experience, someone who stands out in some way are the ones who get hired.

>You should be comparing yourself to other 33 year olds
I do. I am well respected in my field and most my age and older came for advice, even before I enrolled. Having experience, having connections, being quick in learning and adapting gets recognized widely.
I'm not saying I'm some kind of superhuman, far from it, see my first time at uni where I pissed away my time. I'm just good studying on my own and it paid off well.

>>10636153
>>10636166
Thank you friend

>>10635947
>>10635956

Wow, everyone here is too far up their own asses.

>>10636373
>/sci/
Where do you think you are?

>>10623723
You're probably in a bad school, if your CS program courses on Compilers, Complexity Theory, Cryptography, Information Theory, Parallel Computing, Type Theory, Computer Graphics, Computational Geometry and Advanced Algorithms then it's shit.

>>10623723
You're probably in a bad school, if your CS program doesn't have courses on Compilers, Complexity Theory, Cryptography, Information Theory, Parallel Computing, Type Theory, Computer Graphics, Computational Geometry and Advanced Algorithms then it's shit.

>>10636251
>I didn't know the steps
>I had done it years ago
How dumb are you? Like really?
>>I'm done answering you, you're clearly not worth the time
>"g-go away CS chad s-stop bullying me"
IT or help desk, I don't care how you call it just enjoy your shit tier job nerd. Tell yourself you're doing "real CS" for all I care.

>I'm not bashing CS.
You're doing a great job making EE students look like brainlets
>I'm bashing the stupid guy who thinks CS people are a superior race and thinks ML is beyond any engineer
If you weren't illiterate you would've seen that was never what the comment was implying. You're clearly not the sharpest tool in the shed so its no surprise that you can't even read properly.

>which shows how big of a retard he is if he thinks linear algebra and backprop is super hard to grasp.
Is this coming from the retard that thinks every EE can master ML with their eyes closed? I don't think you even know what ML even is. You come across as the kind of guy that saw a youtube video on ML and then went "ZOMG SCIENCE I le mastered it XD" If ML was as easy as you thought it was everyone would flocking to the field. They aren't for a reason.
Just think of your example. You're describing learning how to use the tools someone else made but you're not learning how to make the tools they made. That's a huge difference. In CS you need to know how to use a tool (ex: programming languages) and how to build that tool as well.

If you had any sense of self awareness you would realize how fucking stupid you look right now.

>>10636525
Hi, I'm the engineer from >>10636343
I just want to say that we specifically look for personal traits similar to yours to weed out as early as possible. Nobody wants to deal with a self absorbed entitled POS.
Maybe you should concentrate on learning how to be more humble and respectful of other people and fields.

>>10636542
>Nobody wants to deal with a self absorbed entitled POS.
Pot calling the kettle black. Have you even read your comments?
>you should concentrate on learning how to be more humble and respectful of other people and fields.
pot calling the kettle black, again. Explain how I'm not being humble/respectful to other fields/people. If its because I make you and your peers look like idiots then that's your fault.

When you get enough self awareness to realize you're describing yourself then we can talk. Until then keep acting superior while remaining eternally butthurt.

>this whole thread
have sex

>>10636582
The only butthurt here is you, son

>>10636663
Shut the fuck up, you dumb boomer engishit.

>>10636663
Pot calling the kettle back.
Work on that self awareness.

>>10623749
kys newfag. Spacing out paragraphs is OK, but nobody greentexts like in OP.

>>10635696
Princeton is one of the very last American unis that deflate GPAs though.

>>10635926
>If ML was a walk in the park for EE's then you fags would dominate the field
ML is literally a subset of controls & signals engineering though. Those fields still thrive.

>>10636738
>>10636757
seething

>>10635681
You must go to UCLA.
UCLA is maybe in the top 50 in the US but shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as Berkeley.
t. former CS prof

>>10623868
kek. if it's not in top 20, it's shit.

>>10624140
>what the FUCK is up with transsexuals and programming
- autism and high IQ (which often induces autogynephillia)
- CS people are generally more accepting and liberal
- jobs are lucrative ($150k-200k starting at most SV companies). transitioning costs at lot of $$$.

>>10625165
>mfw it's real
kek

>>10629984
Serious CS is much more than "coding" though.
That said if you're half decent you can still learn most of CS undergrad (sans the pure math) on your own.

>>10635696
Princeton CS+EE undergrads are better than those at any school except maybe MIT and Caltech.

>>10635926
At top unis "EECS" is usually just honors CS.

>The most hilarious part is they actually thought the programming in embedded systems was comparably hard to the programming we did in other classes. When I showed them what an operating systems class looked like that pretty much shut them up.
Anecdotes don't mean much. At my school EEs take CS's 4th year honors Operating System b/c the 3rd year course is a babbyshit implementing scheduling algorithms in python or some other baby interpreted language.

>CS takes more math than an EE
Usually correct. But fields like control theory is extremely math heavy. They take elementary functional analysis and Fourier analysis in 2nd year, for example.

>>10623738
Job market for CS is very poor, and looking worse year after year in terms of opportunities. Maybe I should go back to anthropology? If I get a PhD I'll always have a place in academia.

>>10624817
brute force the Riemann Hypothesis, you mongrel.

>>10623746
Fuck off. I guarantee I've used 4chan longer than anyone on this board and I space long my posts so they're readable.

Summer 2005 if you were wondering.

>>10636933
Not even from Princeton but can vouch. Their tests are hard as fuck.

>>10636948
No functioning human being intentionally greentexts like OP though.

>>10636814
Pot calling the kettle black.

No need to get mad at me anon, its not my fault you're an idiot.

>>10636948
>summerfag

>>10636941
>At top unis "EECS" is usually just honors CS.
You mean something like Berkeley? EECS isn't EE, its EE+CS. Plus for Berkeley they have the CSE degree as well.
Speaking of which is CSE considered CS or do people make a distinction? There are differences in the degree but I don't think the differences are big enough to make CSE its own field but rather it just looks like CS with a focus on CE. Hell nobody talks about it because its a pretty new small thing in general. I'd argue its just CS.

>Anecdotes don't mean much.
Agreed, hence why I use anecdotes to fight anecdotes.
Which school do you go to? Post the degree, it sounds interesting.
Also bashing your own school doesn't really bide well for you.

>But fields like control theory is extremely math heavy.
They are.
I'm just pointing out the obvious because so many people here blindly believe /sci/ memes that they fail to realize how much math is involved in a cs degree. Its much more than any other engineering degree.

>>10623723
you need to take an information systems paper, it is this times 100x

>>10623937
Trannies don't use C, they use some other gay language like Rust or some shit.
C is for boomers and 20 year old boomers.

>>10637500
seething "pointers are too hard" retard

>>10636948
Reddit confirmed LMAO

Engineer here, how come I have to fire an IT person every couple months for fucking up our production line?
Why are you idiots incapable of remembering a simple rule: consult the equipment's service before you fuck shit up? So far I have one 50 tonnes furnace, two measuring machines and two quality control labs down because a fuckup abortion of an IT idiot decided to upgrade Windows by hand, without consulting someone if it will cause any problems!
All my IT idiots are background checked CS grads with supposedly some kind of industrial engineering minors, but every single one behaves like a blabbering idiot!
So far you CS memesters caused more problems and losses than solutions!

>>10637577
>windows
found your problem

>>10637577
>engineer
>has a job
fake news

>>10637611
I'm the one giving and taking jobs. I am GOD

>>10637590
Tell me about it, even more, most of the equipment runs some kind of Windows XP, either normal or an embedded version. Communication is through RS232 because the electric noise in industrial environment is huge and normal ethernet and USB are unusable.
Also communication is fucked in XP SP3 so everything is limited to SP2. One fuckup and the whole thing has to be reinstalled and variables dialed back again taking up a whole week per furnace, lab equipments need service supervision to reinstall databases and such. Clueless IT comes in, thinks everything is MS Office and videogames and fucks shit up.
I mean with the lab equipments it is only time and money loss, but with the big stuff, furnaces, pressure systems, substance control, it can literally kill people. And most of the IT idiots just shrug it off like the workers are just mindless robots and dolls or something. Infuriating!

>>10637670
Your induction and training is probably hot garbage if this keeps happening.

>>10637590
Unironically, running any industrial kit on Windows is absolutely the problem.

>>10637750
Induction and training can only do so much if the recipient has a thick head and thinks he knows better than the people who worked with the stuff much longer.
Turns out you CS memesters have an over 90% thick headed and mental disability ratio.

>>10637767
It is, but the customers want the software to be compatible with their existing """industrial standard""" systems, and that means windows. Telling the CEO and business department that a Linux or Unix/BSD based thing would be still compatible while being more secure is virtually impossible, the response is always about "being able to replace a part from the corner shop" and being able to find a technician literally on the street to maintain it.
I heartfully agree, bringing Windows, a multimedia and games oriented OS into industry was an absolute mistake back then.

>>10637750
Also the funny thing is the few lower level non CS degree IT personnel is the only team I can reliably work with because I trained them in our systems.
Of course the CS memesters always overrule because they think they are better than everybody and then all hell gets loose.
And then the lardass literally cries in front of the CEO when he gets kicked out, because he can't put 2 weeks of IT position in his resumé.
Ah, how much we laughed at him...

>>10637796
I dunno what CS means in your country dude, but I can sure tell you it isn’t what “CS” means in the rest of the world. I have my PhD and work on mostly pure math. Half my papers are either with 1-2 collaborators in TCS or with 1-2 collaborators from pure math. I’ve pushed out more algebraic geometry work than I have anything that “looks” like computation. Fuck outta here with that “you guys are bad IT people lol” bullshit

>>10623723
>”CS is a meme” is honestly not a meme
As others have said, you probably go to a meme university where a CS degree is an overly extended bootcamp for codemonkeys that want to get in on the tech salaries (pro tip: the won't, soon the good salaries will remain only for top-tier computer scientists and engineers).
>>taking computation theory class
>>”why do we need this anyways, it’s not cs it’s just a math class”
Computation theory was literally my favorite class in undergrad.
>>rick and mortfag stickers on laptops
I'm keeping my laptop pure until marriage.
>>”so happy I’m done with math(after calc 1), calc is the hardest class I’ve ever taken”
I wish I had had more math. Real analysis (not calc, lol) was great.
>>professors who skip over any and all mathematical rigor
>>”and this sorting algorithm works in Theta N time, there’s a proof as to why but we don’t need to get into all that”
Clear sign you're at a shit uni.
>>MaSheen Learnding
Never taken an ML course.
>>”I’m a Java engineer lol”
Yep, shit unis produce "X engineers" that think "knowing" language X is a marketable skill. Nope, you get a CS degree to learn how to problem-solve in various ways. Languages are just a tool and you can pick up an arbitrary one on the job in less than a week.

>>10637796
Are you seriously highing CS majors as IT guys? The fuck is wrong with you? You might as well hire music theory majors for all the difference it would make. CS has next to nothing to do with knowing how to maintain infrastructure.

>>10638123
lol it's wild
i honestly don't believe the story

>>10638123
Yes, I have to hire CS majors because a lot of the infrastructure relies on in-house developed software. But being a codemonkey alone won't do any good, the CS has to be the IT as well and know the different nodes of the infrastructure in order to have a usable system that actually supports production. Our IT therefore has to be CS major, programmer, IT tech and maintenance and industrial engineer at some degree. That is the minimum requirement we have for these positions.

How to spot a troll CS post on /sci/
>they mention money/employment
>they talk about politics esp gender politics
>they focus exclusively on undergrad which is a joke in any subject since undergrad is basically 90% intro courses
>they never mention complexity theory research, ie: actual theoretical comp /sci/

If you see any of the above sage like i'm doing right now

>>10638119
CS is a meme is true, in general, in regards to undergraduate. Most universities have absolute shit CS programs in order to pump out adequate programmers. It's true of CS significantly more than any other STEM major. I think we had 1 required programming course at my uni. The public university I attended before transferring had 3 fucking java classes.

>>10638564
>>they focus exclusively on undergrad which is a joke in any subject since undergrad is basically 90% intro courses

>what is math, engineering physics, or physics

>>10638620
oh no, intro to linear algebra is so hard in my physics undergrad. My intro to analysis course, such impossible curriculum. Undergrad is the new highschool unless you're doing the Cambridge Tripos or some other special curriculum. Also saged

>>10638620
>what is Undergrad
Undergrad is just extended highschool, unless you are in a specialized curriculum like the Cambridge Tripos.
Now if you want to criticize computer scientists as a meme for their actions in grad school then sure, warrants a thread. But undergrad who gives a fuck.
For example I've seen many of them refer to math overflow to ask real analysis students for help completing their own thesis, that's meme tier

>>10638667
>For example I've seen many of them refer to math overflow to ask real analysis students for help completing their own thesis, that's meme tier
most posts on cstheory.stackexchange are mostly on geometric complexity theory, which is mostly algebraic geometry. I see only people in randomized algorithms (like, the basic course) ask about analysis since you want to prove your bounds correct via analytic arguments.

PhD CS students seem to be more than capable at non meme mathematics, in my experience

>>10638705
>PhD
True, I was referring to MSc factory schools where the only req for entrance is paying the tuition

>>10638564
It's not trolls as much as it's one guy
You can spot him out easily
He likes to greentext sentences and take them out of context, repeating arguments over and over even after they've been shot down. He also has a bunch of key phrases:
>CS chad
>no evidence
>bashing CS
>if X could do Y, then they'd be loaded by now
>you look so stupid now haha
It's the same dude who thinks repeating salary statistics and the same 5 jokes actually triggers people. What it does is just make him very unpleasant to be around.

>>10638719
On that I agree. MSc students are all over the place and give CS an even worse name. Most are just people who want to advance in their career with some extra +20k on their salary.

At my undergrad, I took graduate algorithms. There were two version: a basic one for masters students and the "real" one for PhD track students and good undergrads. I took the latter but audited a few classes from the former; it was easier than basic data structures while the second was a proper theory/math course in grad school

>>10623723
>CS is a meme
>254 replies
Checks out. Don't you have an exam to be failing rather than shitposting?

>>10638550
This called a "full stack" engineer, and it is a made-up term used by miserly business owners to justify not hiring enough people. You have dug your own grave, now lie in it you penny-pinching piece of shit.

Hire a CS major to write your algorithms, a software engineer to develop and maintain your codebase, and an IT professional to maintain your physical infrastructure, or a cloud engineer if you can move it onto a public cloud.

>>10638550
>Our IT therefore has to be CS major, programmer, IT tech and maintenance and industrial engineer at some degree. That is the minimum requirement
LMAO, and you wonder why shits so fucked. No one with decent prospects would put up with this.

>>10637577
CS is not IT

>>10636408
So every CS program is shit then.

Do you think the average CS graduate could answers these questions. /sci/?

>>10623723
I am taking APCSP in high school this year and guys, let me help you. If your IQ is above 80, just take the regular AP Computer Science. This class is an absolute meme.
Also, I have a lazy bitch who is teaching this class at our school. She doesn't grade properly and just ends up giving everyone an A since she knows that she can't substantiate her reasoning if someone asks why they got a lower grade.
Tests over shit we never learned in class, fucking christ I hate that class.
Also, we need to strongly condemn this Asian and Indian culture of extreme desperate cheating. I have some kids in my class who already took the regular AP Computer Science and are taking this for the GPA increase. They also have their groups where test answers and test banks are found. They start clubs for which they have absolutely no interest. How do I know this? They talk about it shamelessly in class and it makes me sick.
t.Indian

>>10639592
>''technical qustions''
>asks pl related stuff
what

>>10624886
i suppose they like computers which operate in binary when they dont.

>>10639354
Well, it's not like I'm planning to stay for long.

>>10639592
This is a meme test

The programming questions are all basic until you get to a number theoretic sieve question. I mean, one could easily do a naive primality check to root n foreach n up to 2 million, but I'm sure that's not what the question really cares about

The rest are literally "have you taken data structures" or "do you know what the greedy choice property is?"

The """""technical""""""" section is literally something you learn in freshman year / first semester sophomore year.

The theory questions are literally "have you taken a single algorithms course and a single probability theory course" put together, and not even the hard questions from those courses.

I'm confident that most CS majors could answer this with ease, because NOBODY should have trouble with this. This is, or at least was, something we covered in like the freshman year.

>>10639795
Good to know, because those were the questions from >>10626520

Which means that the retards in those interviews are not CS grads, but bootcamp scum. So, /sci/ again is being retarded and blinded by their hate for CS.

>>10623746
>>10624892
>>10636775
This. OP obliterated

>>10639795
This.

Indian here, everyone wants to try their hands on CS here.
It's pretty much a retard field because you simply need to pump in too much effort to outperform your peers
I'd suggest going for something more niche instead if you're not an absolute retard

>>10640608
Yes that's because everyone and their mother in India wants a b tech or some tech degree because it's sold as good money/career prospects. CS as a field, however, which is divorced from developer applications, is not the field that you're describing

>>10640608
Fucking poos ruin everything

>>10640622
indian americans are pretty competent in my experience. It's only really village-tier "I need to feed my family" type developers that are annoying, but to some capacity I can't even be mad at their hustle. You gotta do what you gotta do at that point.

>>10628521
I never met an unemployed engineer.
I'm willing to bet every """engineer""" who brings this argument is a fucking freshman probably struggling with calculus who got there because of "muh tesla".

>>10640717
I've met a few. It's true that engineering is oversaturated and very competitive, but I wouldn't take 4chan as the representative sample. Remember, most people here are generally people the type of people you wouldn't like to make friends with in real life. Imagine how they operate out in the world / in the classroom.

>>10640717
This. I was employed before finishing undergrad. Fact is, you don't even have to be top, even a mediocre student gets a contract after the first internship. Graduating without debt and enough money in the pocket to start in life is awesome.

>>10642024
delet this
it hurts my feels

>>10642024
You have to be pretty shit as an engineer and a human being to be unable to find a job in your field or failing to switch fields with a bit of extra studying.

>>10626520
That's the guy who opened his own firm in southeast Asia (Thailand or Philippines or whatever) or something and could only hire local residents due to some law, no?

>>10626520
Let me guess: this code comes from math graduates?
It sure as hell looks like it.

>>10630890
>What do you actually need to know to graduate these shit CS degrees? This is absolutely embarrassing.
That image was about a guy hiring pajeets in pajeet land. No one applying has a "CS degree" as you'd know it.

>>10635566
>I was telling a group of CS Master's students how to set a fucking virtual machine in their Windows laptops.
top tier bate my dude

>>10623751
Not if these people become the managers.

>>10625316
Basic arithmetic

>>10636203
Do you have aspergers or something?

>>10630890
Can't you do well in a subject unless everyone else is doing well too?

I dropped out and never thought I knew programming well enough to do it in the real world but compared to the people that some complain about I'm a fucking wizard. Maybe I would be able to do it at work.
Too bad I can't prove I know anything about programming since I don't have my degree. How the fuck do others without degrees get jobs where program? Maybe it's just in my country where you officially don't know anything unless you have some certification.

>>10623723
If it's such a meme, it should be easy for you to excel and get into grad school and do real computer science.

>>10625227
Higher freshman acceptance rate just means more competition to get into the CS major.

>>10643976
Do americans apply to a school first and then a major at the school?
Not a specific program directly?

>>10644174
No, and the U Illinois posters are bullshitting when they apply the average acceptance rate of the whole school to the CS major.

>>10644174
Depends. Sometimes yes. Sometimes you can get direct admitted to your major if you're a good enough candidate coming out of high school. Some majors require basically nothing to enter, and some just require passing prerequisite courses with sufficient GPA. A single university might have any of these for their different schools depending on how high the demand is for them.

>>10644174
Depends on the school but most likely not.

Granted note that Illinois's grad program is the one highly ranked, not its undergraduate program although I'm sure its still pretty good. Also Illinois isn't a top 5 CS school

>>10644262
It's probably like
>100% admission for gender studies
>15% for CS
That actually averages out to just under 60% so it's probably not even that far off from reality.

>>10623746
You need to go back you mongoloid.

This is not reddit spacing. This is called a fucking paragraph you dipshit, people were spacing their posts like this in 2003 while your one inch dick was still being formed in utero.

Reddit spacing is when someone dual carriage returns instead of single carriage returning, because reddit reads single carriage return as none. i.e. after quotes. So:
>this
is
>4chan
spacing

>but this

is reddit spacing

>but
>this
is still

4chan spacing

when you aren't

using quotes

or greentext

you dribbling

cretin

kys

I'm thinking of getting a CS degree as a springboard for a masters in Statistics, that ain't so bad right?

>>10624817
>élite
Maybe there needs to be an English revolution before you force an AI revolution

>>10626197
This insecure math/cs double major is still here lol CS is piss easy, stop larping

>>10628516
>The tragic thing is that, computer science is so fucking interesting, particularly how the hardware was built from ground-up from transistor circuitry into higher levels of architecture, but very few of the CS majors actually enjoy that.
That's EE. It has nothing to do with CS.

>>10623723
>>taking computation theory class
>>”why do we need this anyways, it’s not cs it’s just a math class”

No, it's not. There's barely any math besides baby's first proofs.

>>10644805
>>but this

>is reddit spacing

No it's not. Civilized anons double space their reply and green text/post. Double spacing post number and quote is reddit spacing though.

What are the odds of someone getting into CS with just self-taught and certs?

>>10645884
>certs
There are no certs in CS. That's the IT world.
>What are the odds of someone getting into CS with just self-taught and [a github + blog/site journaling your work, discoveries, and troubling shooting efforts]
Very good.

>>10645896
Thanks. So all that Oracle, Microsoft certified yada isn't to be considered actual CS (programming fundamentals/theory). Would shit like that even be worth even looking into outside of a job specific requirement? Thanks again. I have one more question if you would be so kind. I'm a complete newbie. I've done boolean type scripting for the vidya Operation Flashpoint when I was a kid and dabbled in web DESIGN. I want to become a real programmer, so I got these books to start. How do they rate as far as quality and/or relevance?
Rook's Guide to C++ by Jeremy A. Hansen
Java Application Development on Linux by Carl Albing and Michael Schwarz
Basic Algebra by Anthony W. Knapp
Advanced Algebra by same
Calculus Made Easy by Silvanus Thompson
Think Complexity by Allen P. Downey
Assembly Language Succinctly by Chris Rose
Foundations of Programming by Karl Seguin
>and hold the laughter...
How To Become A Programmer by Rob Walling
I don't know what exactly I want to do eventually, but I'd like to learn the fundamentals basically. I'm thinking of learning assembly languages, then C, then C++, then C#, then ASP.NET, then Java, all the while making shit and githubbing. A good book on C, C#, and ASP.NET is still on the list, plus a more encompassing book like the Principia Mathematica for programming if there is one. However relevant it might be I just like to learn stuff.

>>10645958
http://htdp.org/

>>10645972
Sweet. Thank you so much.

>be me
>majoring in CS
>last year
>No compilers course
>No information theory course
>No digital image processing course
>No cryptography course
>No parallel computing course
>No distibuted systems course
>Databases systems and Programming Languages (not something like Type Theory) are required.
Did I fuck up?

>>10645997
You mean you didn't take them or your uni doesn't have these courses? Because in the latter case that's extremely fucked up.

>>10646001
The latter, most electives are meme learning stuff.

>>10646008
well at least you didn't have to take java classes right?

>>10645997
Yes.

>>10646014
No, the only programming I had to do in the major was in DS&A in C++

>>10645997
Just take online courses or watch recorded lectures to complement your college education. Courses from MIT, Stanford, etc. are going to be a hundred times better than your college courses were going to be anyway. If you're somewhat smart and/or you don't care about getting a 4.0 GPA you can pretty easily take 2-4 additional online courses per semester while still having a social life. Being eager to learn outside school looks well on your resume as well.

>>10623723
that code is just a meme, right?

>>10623774
>CS majors at my school are all ultra tryhards who take a lot of the same math classes as pure math majors.

I'm not in CS, but at my uni they're required to take the majority of them, and most end up double majoring because they're 3-4 more courses away from a BS in Math as well. Granted I go to a top tier research university and it's damn near impossible to get into the CS program.

>>10625316
preferably the basics of linear algebra

>>10637577
sounds like 10% idiot it guys and 90% some bloated, retardedly outdated mcguyver production system that we "just leave alone" because the people who built it left ages ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zX58Xmdp5fg

this video is what its like to be me taking my final exam in physics for engineers

>>10646825
are you the hiring manager? because it sounds like you are the hiring manager. engineer a solution. kys.

>go to a shit no name university
>go to an ivy league university
>transfer from a community college
>drop out
>don't go to university at all
>learn math
>don't learn math
>don't learn in depth algorithms, operating systems
>do learn all that shit
>don't even do CS, do IT
>do women's studies
>be a neet and jerk off all day

all these bullshit options and you fight over them all when the end result is the same: if you know how to code, you will get hired, and you WILL make more money than most people even dream of
who gives a fuck if someone's a code monkey or not. the programming demand is so outrageous that basically anyone with a scrap of knowledge can get a job right now. will it collapse? who the fuck knows. will you be able to sidestep into a related field which pays just as well if it does? most likely

>>10646833
i'm just replying anon. *pats head*

>>10638720
lmao you sound triggered
Who hurt you anon?

>>10639745

>>10626520
I love this image, like this shit is ridiculous. I'm not even a CS major, I study economics and still facepalm every time I see this.

In python,

for i in range(0,100):
...if i % 2 != 0:
......print(i)
...else:
......print("OP is a faggot")

Minus the dots of course, those are just there for spacing purposes.