/sci/ - Science & Math

________________________________________________
Genetic traits that define biological sex in mammals:
I. A reproductive system.
II.Fertility.
III. Physical characteristics associated with fertility which happen in nature unaltered.
IV.Genetic testing and DNA confirm the presence of chromosomes which define sex.
________________________________________________
Klinefelter syndrome, XXXXY,,XXXY and other related syndromes associated with weak muscles, bones slow motor development, cognitive impairments, infertility (function), increase the risk of other problems such as cancer, disorders and disease.
More chromosomes, far more sever symptoms.


https://rarediseases.info.nih.gov/diseases/5679/49xxxxy-syndrome
https://rarediseases.info.nih.gov/diseases/8705/klinefelter-syndrome
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4756715/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1634840/

Thoroughly researched problems.
It can be observed in animals.

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/16083-infertility-causes
Infertility caused by disorders,
________________________________________________

Let's take another disorder and put it up to the test.

I.Congenital amputation.
II.Amputation can be acquired.
III. Prosthetics can hide amputation.
IV.They look similar to people who have limbs therefore they are the same.

________________________________________________

Why should we call someone who's imitating genetic traits which manifest in order to signal a child bearer (a woman) the same thing just because it goes through hormone therapy and surgery but it cannot replicate its function? This is the point I'm trying to make. We can observe and test something's presence without playing with words.

>>10595085
That guy has some really aesthetic body- and facial-hair patterns. Is there a way to control and encourage that, other than trimming and styling? I can't grow facial hair.

>>10595164
Aesthetic Eugenics

>>10595164
Irrelevant

>>10595086
>Why should we call someone
Because they would prefer it.

>>10595085
Who says we should? Oh right mentally ill dominated parts of society we live in

>>10595514
The question in this context is why politeness should be the basis of law?
Using the preferred pronoun for a well passing MtF would seem natural, however, for the typical case of visible male bone structure this comes down to an almost mocking "politeness"
equal to complimenting the appearance of the victim of a recent facial bit-bull attack.
Should this mockery be compelled by law, or only engaged to based on our usual standards of politeness?

The more important question in this context is however if hormone administration prior to the brain being fully developed is within the bounds of the ethics of a society that has,
for most of the previous decades argumented based on accepting the beauty your body however it may look?
It seems we were rather quick in moving from:
"wrinkles can be pretty, and a bit of extra weight is perfectly fine, you're beautiful!!"
to:
"you're right, you need to absolutely totally chop that thing off, take hormones, and have the bones of your face sanded off!
Oh by the way my baby also has a penis, but She REALLY likes my breasts so I'll help her in finding her REAL self! Whatever it takes! YOU FUCKING BIGOT!"

It all reminds me a bit of this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr1I6ztMsz0

and I suspect this is a thread more fitting for /pol

>>>/lgbt/

>>10595600
>It all reminds me a bit of this video:
In this context: the UDSSR stopped existing in 1991, and a possible psyop would likely move from spreading communist ideals moving on to principles destabilizing society.
Based on the 25 year time frame discussed, the effects of this change in tactics would be completed and in full effect around 2016.
Longer video explaining the subversion principles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gnpCqsXE8g

>>10595085
Why armpits white
Me like armpits

Fine, can we just call people Child bearers and Impregnators then?

>>10595708
We'd have the same problem,
The current confusion is based on redefining the meaning of words. (and then telling everyone the old definition is wrong)
in case of your suggestion, redefine the act of impregnation to include both involved and bearing the child being the creation of a psychological attachment to it, this results in the same problem as we have at the moment.

The only thing I could imagine working would be using chromosome structure:
XX, XY, XXY etc. instead of Mr. Ms. etc. as it's a trait hard to redefine.

>>10595166
Aesthenics?

>>10595600
The question in this context also moves well outside being on topi for /sci/. Legal/moral/societal/political stuff is outside our magisterium.

>another sex is gender thread
Literally no one cares fuck off

>>10595828
As this is /sci is there a clear scientific way of defining the meaning of words?

>>10595831
Sex and gender are the same thing
How your reproductive systems present

>>10595085
Do people who change genders have lower IQ's than average?
Because extra chromosomes = dumber.

>>10595085
Is this the power of Nazi scientist?

>>10595740
>>10595708
>>10595649
>>10595600
>>10595086
>>10595085
>>10595164

cringe

Anyone else have a fucked up Tachiyomi and unable to downgrade back? Why did they ruin it?

>>10595085
Biology is just like mathematics, a social construct.

>>10595831
language isn't fucking scientific, you can "scientifically" assign words all you want but as soon as everyone starts using them in the 'wrong' way suddenly that word's meaning has changed.
It's why this whole debate is so fucking pointless. If a social scientist uses the word "gender" they're probably using it to refer to social and cultural concepts rather than sex. If a /pol/ evangelist uses the word gender their definitely only referring to sex, and no matter how many dictionary screenshots either one posts they're both using the same word to talk about different concepts and will never agree.

>I'm a man and someone refers to me as she, or calls me a woman
>no big deal, accept that they were insulting me and go on with my day
>someone calls a trans "woman" a man, which they are
>the law comes after them

These people are mentally ill and the world would be a better place without them. Only literal low-IQers believe that sex =/= gender. If someone claims otherwise, they have mental health issues.

>>10596187
Where did this weird idea you can be jailed for misgendering someone come from?

>>10596213
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6687123/Mother-arrested-children-calling-transgender-woman-man.html

>>10596213
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Act_to_amend_the_Canadian_Human_Rights_Act_and_the_Criminal_Code

>>10596277
>Because it is a federal law, changes to the Human Rights Act only have consequences for areas falling under federal competency such as banks and airlines. Most interactions in day-to-day life occur in businesses and areas covered by provincial competency. In most provinces, gender identity and expression were added as protected grounds a number of years ago.
There are three parts to the new law: anti-discrimination, hate speech, and hate crime.

>At the level of anti-discrimination, C-16 means that you can instigate a complaint for discrimination or harassment. Using the wrong pronouns repeatedly after being made aware that a person uses other pronouns might amount to harassment, a position that is taken by the Ontario Human Rights Commission. Accidental or occasional use of the wrong pronouns would not be sufficiently grave or frequent to be considered harassment under the law.

>>10596272
>The police arrest, in fact, stems from Scottow allegedly sharing “confidential details of my personal medical and financial information” on social media.

>>10595085
Preaching to the choir but really good write up.

Listen the thing to do is just refuse to discuss take seriously or respect at all these crazy ideologies. Call them crazy and foreign and move away move on don't participate in the shit and stand ground.

>>10596287
>defending misgendering someone as being called harassment
Lmao
>>10596299
That was the legal "reason," but the political and social reason was because an activist reported her for misgendering.

>>10596315
If I call you a faggot (which you are) repeatedly after you've asked me to stop that would be considered harassment. How is that any different? Or do you just believe there should be no harassment laws period?

The UK has laws against doxxing (which she did) She broke the law and was arrested what's to argue?

an infertile woman is still a woman, even if she can't reproduce.

that said, trannies are still mentally ill

Anyone else have hair on their bepis??

>>10596330
>call a man a man
>call a woman a woman
>the mentally I'll gets upset and cries HATE SPEECH
>go to jail and join mukbair's radical Islamic prison gang
>meanwhile some faggot on reddit keeps posting 'you have the freedom of speech, but there are still consequences xD'

>>10595600
>The question in this context is why politeness should be the basis of law?

It shouldn't be law but it's really nice if you call trans people their preferred pronouns. Now stop being autistic.

>>10596385
Would you mind calling me Emperor of Antarctica? I am convinced that, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary and common sense, I am the rightful heir to the entire continent of Antarctica. This is who I am, and you simple need to accept that. I will corrupt academia so that your teachers and politicians will agree with me, and with their help I will force you to do exactly what I say. You WILL treat me as the sovereign of Antarctica, otherwise you are discriminating against me.

>>10596378
So you don't believe in harassment laws, i can respect that because it's a position that doesn't discriminate.

>>10596395
Well the only human interaction you ever get is probably cashiers, and the customer is always right so they'd probably agree to that.

>>10596415
Nope I will expect a meeting with the President and the Queen, of course.

>>10596412
Lol on my life not feeding your delusions is not the same as harassment. Those hormones must be messing with your head

>>10596431
I mean there's no harm in trying. For the president try https://www.whitehouse.gov/get-involved/write-or-call/
Can't help you with the queen.

>>10596435
Religion is pure delusions but calling someone a filthy kike towelhead or christcuck repeatedly after being asked to stop is considered harassment. How is that different?

>>10595164
some of it's testosterone, I'm pretty sure

>>10595085
Okay, and? What’s the point of this, exactly?

>>10595085
Serious question here, don't bother replying if you cannot think critically.
Why should humanity be continued again? Your point seems to be that behaviors which are not conducive to reproduction, therefore the continuation of your species, should be avoided.
By why do we need to reproduce? What benefit would more humans provide? It seems like a net cost actually.
>because I am a human and I want dominance/selfish reasons
If you are ok with this selfish reason, you must also be ok with a selfishness by those who behave inconsistently with your virtues.

>>10595740
No redefinition is done, since gender pronouns refer to gender, not sex. Go yell at people calling ships “she” and “her”l

>>10596466
>Hello, sir
>IT'S MA'AM
>You are a male. Please, calm down, sir
>gets arrested for harassment
What a joke lmfao. Imagine being this insane
>>10596412
>>10596330

>>10596498
>claiming gender and sex are not synonymous because of some gender studies academics despite being synonymous before this
Never gonna make it

>>10596572
Conservatism in the wake of new evidence is anti science

>>10596572
>>10596146

>>10596572
>Reeeeeee words cant change ever reeee

Things change. Get over it.

>>10596567
>Harasses someone
>Gets arrested

Wow. What a police state. Lol.

>>10595085
>sex == gender

>>10596586
>anti science
Gender studies is not science.
>>10596596
>Things change
You mean I have to accept new definitions for basic terms because some gender studies academics decided to? Nah.
>Harasses someone
>"Sorry, sir"
Not harassment to people who aren't mentally ill

>>10596628
>sex isn't the same as gender, guys, seriously
>wow, wtf why wont you accept me randomly changing word definitions

>>10596643
>wow, wtf why wont you accept me randomly changing word definitions

Apparently the Lakota are gender-studies professors that randomly changed the meaning of gender in the last few decades.

>>10596633
>You mean I have to accept new definitions for basic terms because some gender studies academics decided to? Nah.

Your choice to use outdated and inaccurate terminology, dude. Not my problem you choose to be wrong.

>Not harassment to people who aren't mentally ill

Being trans isn’t defined as a mental illness by WHO or the APA. Try again, little guy!

>>10596643
Have sex

Someone post the webm of that guy explaining the origins of 'genders. The (((academic))) who started that idea used the research to 'test his theory' as a means to molest children, particularly that one boy who, after a botched circumcision at birth, tried to become a girl. Spoiler: Thanos dies, and so did that kid by taking his own life.

>>10596643
>>10596667
>>10596146

>>10596955
Back to your containment board.

>The (((academic))) who started that idea

He was Lakota? Wow.

>>10597002
If you're referring to /pol/ I haven't been there in about 3-4 years. Doesn't change the fact that gender is a stupid and incorrect theory that should never have had as much impact on society as it has.

>>10597011
>Doesn't change the fact that gender is a stupid and incorrect theory

How’s it “stupid and incorrect”?
How is it even a “theory”?

>that should never have had as much impact on society as it has.

Why? Multiple cultures have more than two genders.

>>10597018
Other cultures mutilate their genitals, eat other people, behead, torture, etc. Even the animals rape and steal and are violent to each other, why not copy them? To allow a man to wallow in his delusions and stable in the dark, to not help that man see the light, and to even encourage his insanity is the pinnacle of disgust and hatred for that man.

>>10597032
>Other cultures mutilate their genitals, eat other people, behead, torture, etc.

Yep. And? Genital mutilation, cannibalism, beheadings, and torture are all real, actual things. So is gender nonbinarism and transgenderism. Your contention is that “gender” doesn’t even exist, and in reply you cite various real, actual things practiced by various cultures. How is the concept of gender even remotely comparable ethically to the other things you mentioned? I’d never compare morally a biological male deciding to hold the social and cultural roles of females to beheadings on a moral scale. That’s dumb.

>Even the animals rape and steal and are violent to each other, why not copy them?

I never proposed copying them. Why are you stupid?

>To allow a man to wallow in his delusions and stable in the dark, to not help that man see the light, and to even encourage his insanity is the pinnacle of disgust and hatred for that man.

There you go again, “delusion”.
Your contention is that gender doesn’t exist, but there are multiple cultures with established concepts of transgenderism and nonbinarism, so you are, as you said, “stupid and incorrect”.

>>10595085
I've gotten to know probably about 4 or 5 transgender people and I can guarantee with certainty that you're an order of magnitude crazier than any of them.

>>10595085
>>10595086

>>10596354
>an infertile woman is still a woman
She's less of a woman than a fertile woman though.
In the same way, a cripple is less of a human being.
Someone who's mentally retarded is less intelligent.
So on and so forth.

>>10596493
People argue that biological sex is a social construct.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePP6UtHg1rI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZwOe2--VUg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlRD3A6ZPkY

>>10596494
Because humans are designed to survive, humans are superior to other beings, therefore they should be subjugated, enslaved and abused for our own amusements. We are gods compared to mindless beings and it's mostly beneficial for us to govern and rule over the universe since we can.
Moon landings, discoveries, innovations, so many great things came out of humanity. This isn't a selfish reason, we evolved minds which can be shaped into tools of control and domination. We make things, that's what defies the universe. We contradict the natural rules. As opposed to the universe, in which things happen, we make them happen out of our own will.

>Your point seems to be that behaviors which are not conducive to reproduction, therefore the continuation of your species, should be avoided.
That's not my point. My point is that there's an observable biological sex in nature and that it's not a social construct. I'm not arguing against people calling themselves whatever, just that there are people who say they don't exist or that we could classify people based on multiple characteristics which defy our understanding of things.

>By why do we need to reproduce? What benefit would more humans provide? It seems like a net cost actually.
More people also create a higher frequency of intelligent people which benefit humanity as a whole.
My intentions are pure actually and I'm the only one who cares about people. Without people such as I, we would be shitting on the streets or living in poor dirt-made cobbels.

>>10597096
I'm not crazy, my point is that biological sex is real, without a doubt. And what's classified as a woman are some features which serve as pointers towards that biological sex. Fertility and her reproductive system being key defining features of the sex.
Those can be tested.

People who change or swap sex/ gender only imitate, can't be tested and are take for face value.

ex. If a fat woman pregnant because she looks like one?
Is a blind man not blind because he's using fake eyes which look like real eyes?
Is a cripple not a cripple because he's using prosthetics and I can't see them?
Does someone who has a brain tumor not have a brain tumor because I can't see it?
Are children with Down syndrome just mongolians/ members of a different race because they look mongoloid?
So why would we call a man a woman when they can't even do it properly? Based on what? Anomalies and birth defects? They're not as human or as right as the real thing.

They're heavily modified and calling them something which they're not is a mockery.

That's what people seem to be arguing. I'm only trying to set things right.

>>10597142
I'm not sexist, I've got plenty of transgender friends against which I expressed my opinions and they agree with me.
Biological sex is real.

Chromosomes prove it.

Observation proves it.

The presence of a reproductive system proves it.

It can be tested.

It exists.

>>10597665
but waaah my feelings :(((

>>10595086
I appreciate all the hard work you went through to pretend to be rational and clinical. this all looks very cool and must have taken a long time. I wonder, why did you do this? you anticipated an effect, but you had to know that while you were making it, there would be no effect. You also had to know that a small possibility existed that it would not get you the effect you wanted. It could be a waste of time. so, why did you do it?

because you like to. you enjoy this. You see, logic is a creation of human minds, it is not a natural phenomenon. Physics, chemistry, these things are natural, but piling up facts and drawing patterns from them is not the primary function of the human brain. We do things because we like to. Our purposed is centered on survival, and to keep the individual on that narrow path, he suffers emotions to blinker his thoughts.

A male FEELS that he should be female. a female FEELS that she should have sex with another female. there is no logic other than that. it is innate and immutable. we are compelled, and so we do.

your logic is missing some factors

>>10597665
What are you even arguing? Nobody argues that chromosomes don't exist.

>>10597689
>Physics, chemistry, these things are natural
Biology isn't? Lmao.

I feel like water tastes like fire lul.

>>10597665
so... what is your point? what would you like to happen? if a person feels miserable, and the only treatment is to dress up as the opposite sex, what is your opinion on this? what would you have them do?

if this person is miserable, and dressing up makes them feel better, and compassionate (or really fucking dispassionate) people want to comfort them (or just don't give a shit) what should they do? should they call this person by their requested pronouns? knowing that doing so will only inflame their misery?

>>10597705
I am not talking about biology. I am talking about reason. try to keep up

>>10597689
>Physics, chemistry, these things are natural
Mixing something with water so I can make water burn means water is a social construct. Even though naturally it doesn't burn.


>>10597706
But it's caused by a mental illness.

>>10597708
>I am not talking about biology
Then get out. This thread is called "Biological Sex.", not Gender.

>>10597723
am I wrong, or is OP trying to make some kind of judgment about people, using biology?

>>10597804
Maybe. (Not OP.) But everything he's written so far has been transphobic.

>>10595085
You don't actually have/study a stem degree don't you

>>10595086
>Why should we call someone who's imitating genetic traits which manifest in order to signal a child bearer (a woman) the same thing just because it goes through hormone therapy and surgery but it cannot replicate its function? This is the point I'm trying to make. We can observe and test something's presence without playing with words.
Gender theory has absolutely nothing to do with science so this is the wrong board with this. No one here debates biological sex. They might debate gender, but they'd have to do it elsewhere. I have no idea why these unscientific threads stay up time and time again.