/sci/ - Science & Math

Can any given substance be either an acid or a base depending on the pH of the solvent?

Bump cause don't have the knowledge to add anything valuable

>>10532197
Ampholyte?

>>10532573
right but I'm saying: take a 'weak acid' like HNO2. Can it act as a base if added not to pH7 water, but water with 1 molar aqueous HCL? And if so, would anything you drop in to HCL act as a base also?

anyone else really clumsy? is there any hope for people who have poor lab skills?

>>10532609
I never do as well as I like but I don't think I'm terrible. How clumsy exactly?

>>10532158
What are good options for small scale chemical hydrogen production?

>>10532625
Al + NaOH

>>10532618
I messed up most of the labs last semester and had to redo them. One of them I accidently used up all my crystals in a reaction instead of saving a bit for analysis, another I threw away a ton of material during an extraction because I thought it wasn't what we wanted, a third I didn't heat my beaker hot enough (because my thermometer was measuring the bottom of the glass and not the solution) and it didn't react completely.

>>10532635
What can I do with AlNaO2?

>>10532608
I think diacids fit what you're describing, once its given away a proton, it can still give away another one, which makes it an acid, but its still a base bc its an acid that lost a proton, sulfiric acid is a good example: H2SO4 + H2O H3O+ + HSO−4; HSO−4 + H2O H3O+ + SO2−4

>>10532645
last one is a live and learn type thing which cannot really be avoided without doing it wrong first or having a very watchful prof, but if I understand the first two correctly they are the type that could be avoided by planning out the your procedure pre-experiment more thoroughly, then mentally rehearsing it after you've written it down. And try to make sure you're not skipping over things when you're doing this, like if you're supposed to keep a sprinkle of crystals, also write down and mentally rehearse where you are disposing the rest. Leave nothing to chance in this. It's not magic but it helps reduce mistakes, of those type, for me

>>10532655
not much, I guess. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_aluminate#Uses

I tried doing this reaction with aluminum foil and NaOH solution, and I got a grey, viscous and sticky substance. It says on wikipedia that NaAl(OH)4 is highly soluble in water, so the grey stuff was probably unreacted aluminum and oxides, because I didn't add a lot of NaOH solution. I tried to see if it would react with vinegar (I didn't have a stronger acid on hand) but it didn't. I didn't know what else to do with it.

What does Pt do in hydrogenation reactions? How it works?

>>10533366
Pt pulls the electrons from the pi bond into it's empty orbitals, leaving behind electrophilic carbons, the hydrogens just fit themselves there and bada-bing you got hydrogenation

>>10533366
Soo..

Pt has a cloud of electrons but when you "zoom" in really close we notice that the electrons aren't always bonded to the Pt. And loose electron pairs can be found.

Normally a Hydrogenation requires a butt load of energy to break the H2 bond but when H2 gets close to the Pt it gets adsorbed and those loose electrons help pop the two H atoms appart without having to feed that butt load of energy to the H2.

The freed H atoms don't fly away but instead roam around the surface of the Pt until it finds an adsorbed hydrocarbon and it breaks the double bonds and the hydrocarbon later breaks loose from the Pt surface.

Many metals can do this but Pt is very efficient. It can do many reactions very fasy before it gets clogged up and can't be used but Pt is very expensive. Ni can also be used, Ni is way way cheaper but it gets fucked faster than Pt.

>>10533366
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxidative_addition

>>10533366

>>10533442
> those loose electrons help pop the two H atoms apart

>>10533489
Dasitmane... Exactly like that

>tfw chemical engineering bachelors and a master's
>Live in a shitty third world country that has no job openings for that.
>My only options are to work for customer service or to teach middle school chemistry
Fuck this shitty place and lack of interest in chemistry

>>10533557
why you went all the way up to a masters before you figure that?

>>10533442
why is Pt special? I can never figure out why the put seemingly random things over the reaction arrow. Why not gold? why not silver? why not copper?

>>10533569
I worked before the masters, supposedly as chemist in charge of a sewage treatment plant, but everything was automated so I was basically a glorified guard. Just check that all systems were OK and then write everything on the log. I assumed a masters can get me a better job, it didn't

>>10533600
well good luck anyway. if not cook meth on the side then sell the rights to your life story

Babby chemE undergrad here. How feasible is cooking up psychs and dissociatives after finishing the degree? Asking for a friend, cia niggers need not apply

>>10533442
>>10533575

ah fuck me I just realized you answered that and I'd skimmed. Thorough answer, you understand it very well

>>10533575
It depends on what reaction you are doing.

It's hard to explain it here but basically some metals are better than other metals in certain reactions. Sometimes a combination of metals like a "sandwich" of Pt-Au-Ti can work better than just Pt or just Au.

Also, you need to look at the scale of your reaction. Maybe you come across a research paper showing that Au worked wonders for a drug synthesis in a small reactor that can fit on a lab bench but when you scale that up you may find that creating a large catalysts bed with that same crystal structure becomes difficult and expensive, and it may be better to use a Ni/Pd catalysts for example.

Sadly there isn't a "one size fits all" answer. It really just comes down to the available research on the reaction you are doing and at what scale you're doing it in and the environment that you're exposing your catalyst to

>>10533636
Easy if you have a place of your own because you need to use organic solvents that smell strong.

The only hard part is finding the reagents for your project. Some reagents are illegal or difficult to find in the right concentrations.

Making reagents normally requires more lab ware, they require more lab experience and are expensive with low yields. The upfront costs of buying an organic chemistry kit is quite high

If all you want to do is extractions to get things like DMT then some glassware and good ventilation is all you need. If you want to make LSD and other things like it you will eventually run into problems buying reagents anonymously

This is probably a stretch, but...

Any idea what tetraxenongold(II) could be used for? I saw a thread here a couple months ago in regards to superacids, and read up a bit on one of the acids mentioned (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoroantimonic_acid ).

It was discovered as the first noble gas/noble metal compound in 2000, but not much has been described about it since. Have any applications been proposed for this substance?

Babby question, but how did you guys get a grasp on valence bond theory diagrams? Endless practice questions?

>>10533773
Yeah that’s what I figured. Extracting dmt would be the most obvious way to go, was just a bit curious if there were any RCs worth mention.

Does anybody know any way of separating H2O2 from Percarbonate?

>>10533479
I hate these half assed explanations. Why don't they just show the MOs? Then it would actually make sense

>>10532158
My roommate is probably going to kill herself at or before the end of the semester because she's likely going to absolutely nuke her 4.0 with her organic chemistry class. What do I do?
My university has no tutoring programs, I only know basic ochem, and the internet is as unhelpful as ever.

>>10535127
I recall this site being helpful
https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/2011/09/21/advice-from-a-students/
what's it to you though, it's her problem. and it sounds like she hasn't even googled it. does she go to office hours?

>>10535127
Go to the library, grab a ochem book, make her sit and read. That's all.

>>10535136
She does exactly as is stated on that page, albeit she probably didn't read it there.
She failed the midterm so she's trying to rely on memorization for the final exam and it's driving her nuts.
She's tried going to office hours multiple times but the professor was unhelpful, saying that "she could only help with specific concepts, not ochem as a whole" or something. When presenting her with a single topic, she pushes her off saying she "doesn't understand the necessary concepts" or some gay shit.
>>10535142
She's literally been studying ochem nonstop this entire semester, doing nothing but making notecards, doing practice problems, and reading and reading and reading.

>>10535152

Pic related, it has built in practice problems. Books-A-Million has it. Organic Chemistry 1 for Dummies is also nice and explains more concepts but is a little harder. Chemistry Essentials for Dummies is also great for getting the Molar concentration stuff downpat and various other stoichiometry. All at Books-a-Million. Master Organic Chemistry is a great site for free info. Professor Dave Explains is also a great YouTuber who does O-Chem mechanism and problem videos that are easy to follow. Professors are not going to help you, they just tell you to learn the shit yourself while they lecture the breezy stuff, save questions for "office hours" a.k.a. when you have other classes you can't get out of, and test you. Books and the internet are the real professors.

>>10535199
Thanks for the youtube recommendation; this channel looks wonderful so far.
The website seems kinda meh but I'll try and dig through and get the free stuff.

>>10535199
great recommendations

how do i make meth

>>10537241
it's an art, like jazz. If you got to ask, you ain't never gonna get to know

Is there any compound, other than water, that is amphoteric?

>>10538525
HSO4

>>10538588
that and water are amphoteric by the Bronsted-Lowry definition, right. Isn't it the case that anything is amphoteric by the Lewis definition, at the right pH?

Why are lanthanum and actinium in the d-block?

is becoming a chemist worth it? I have been thinking about it, I am very good in mathematical studies like physics, math and chemistry

>>10540202
idk. all the anoni who've posted so far complained about the job market. Economically probably not worth it, unless you really like it in which case you'll be good enough that the general job market oughtn't matter. If you specialize in petroleum chemistry or some shit like that you'd probably do ok

>>10534279
You mean like the antibonding bonding orbital diagrams?

>>10533575
As a general rule any member of the Triad will work - Ni, Pd & Pt have very similar behaviour. It's primarily to do with level of d-orbital- occupancy. Early TM are good lewis acids but for reactions like oxidative addition you ideally want a little nucleophilic character to push electrons into anti bonding orbitals.

So a friend wanted to see what happens to aluminun is a solution of sodium hydroxide. I made the solution and threw in an excess of aluminum foil. It reacted and was left overnight. Next day I go to dispose of it, needed something to neutralize the solution so I poured in some vinegar. Immediately a white precipitate forms and comes out of solution. I know aluminum and sodium hydroxide makes sodium aluminate, but I have no idea what acetic acid and sodium aluminate makes. What did I just make?

>>10540202
I think a lot of the money is in organic chem - stuff like petrochemicals, big pharma ect.
I haven't graduated yet (3rd year out of 4) but I secured a placement with a drug research company without too much difficulty. There's definitely work out there.

I'm trying to decrease the freezing point of Ethanol at room temperature by dissolving ionic compounds in it. The question I have is, if I use a double salt that disassociate into ions that are still soluble in the ethanol, will I get a solute that has a high Van't Hoff Factor, which can lower the freezing point further?

>>10542787
a summer internship? what's the pay if you don't mind

>>10535010
The problem is RCs are mostly difficult to synthesize and that the government frequently changes what is and is not legal to try and keep up with RC development. Better not to get involved in that area because you’d frequently have to get new and different reagents.

>>10535127
It’s probably too late but make her work through Organic Chemistry as a 2nd Language. This is what every retarded premed uses to ace the class.

>>10542700
You just made aluminum diacetate. Kudos to you for making an antifungal medication by accident I guess.

>>10542787
I thought I posted my reply but somehow the captcha fucked it up.
I went into chem because of the possibilities of petro and mineral extraction chemistry. But my shitty third world country has it so that only friends and family of the higher ups get hired.
So now I wagecuck it at stuff that has nothing to do with chemistry.
I am thinking of doing a PhD. But I am too old and also don't know if it will get me anywhere here

>>10545849
About £1200 a month (UK), it's for six months
>>10546473
Yeah I can imagine job prospects depend a lot on where you live. Even when I graduate I'm not sure how easy it will be to find work actually in chemistry.

>>10546512
pretty good, congrats

>>10546462
I find it incredibly interesting that we can make something that useful at home from household ingredients

>>10546331
retarded premed here, thanks a bunch anon

>>10546519
thanks anon

>>10532158
So, what does Bleach and Vinegar actually do? Been told never to mix the two when cleaning.

>>10546525
Right? It's amazing the kind of stuff you can make from chemicals you just have laying around.

>>10546512
Tell me your secrets, I am jelly as fuck

>>10546544
I think the interview is the most important part really. I had good grades and everything on the CV, but that just gets you through the door then it's all down to the interview.

>>10546559
Nice.
Problem for me is that I don't even get to the interview, my week points are the letter of statement or intention. I tend to either say too much shit and ramble or not say enough to get considered. But congrats, I am legit jealous. Hope it goes great for you

>>10546601
thanks man I appreciate the kind words

>>10546539
I am approximately equally impressed that you knew the product and its use just from the reactants

How do I start practical chemistry? I mixed white glue and sand to see if it would form some kind of stone but the sand doesn't seem to want to stick together. What kind of theory do I need to know?

>>10546538
releases chlorine gas

>>10546462
>>10546462
hey I have about a kilogram of sodium bisulfate sitting around too, can I make anything cool with that (that isn't hydrogen sulfide)? I'm short on other chemicals, got some peroxide, sodium bicarbonate, copper, aluminum, tin, sodium hydroxide, some batteries (non lithium), iron, silver, ascorbic acid, and bleach.

Also another question, something I've been working on figuring out are the following reactions from some experiments:

Sodium bicarbonate is added to a solution of 3% hydrogen peroxide. To this solution copper is added. The copper dissolves, producing bubbles confirmed to be hydrogen by a flame test, and the reaction yields a blue solution. It's really slow, takes hours to days to get started and takes days to weeks to finish. Once the peroxide is used up, and the solution filtered, I'm left with that blue solution that will darken over time. If I add ascorbic acid, the copper is knocked out of solution. I can’t quite figure out what’s going on in this reaction. I’ve found a good end point for the addition of ascorbic acid to be when the ascorbic acid starts to react with the excess sodium bicarbonate, leading me to conclude that the product making the solution blue has a very low solubility product. I’ve concluded that perhaps the sodium bicarbonate is acting as a catalyst for the formation of sodium peroxide, which reacts with the copper to yield copper hydroxide. Do you think I’m on the right track with my analysis?

1/2

>>10546676
The second reaction is me testing out NaOH as a base instead of sodium bicarbonate. My results were wildly different. To 150ml of ice cold 3% peroxide, 1g of NaOH is added. To this solution copper is added. Just like before, the reaction takes hours to start, but is probably slower to start due to the use of cold peroxide. This time, however, a small, steady stream of bubbles is seen coming off the copper. A flame test confirms this is hydrogen gas. MONTHS go by with a constant stream of bubbles coming from the copper with no color change to the solution. No evidence of the copper dissolving either. When the reaction finished I was left with small amounts of a white precipitate that I assume to be a hydrate of the sodium peroxide. I’m completely stumped with this one. I have no idea what’s going on. I’ve tried to figure out this reaction using all the usual methods but hit a wall when potentials for intermediate products are too high or low, no literature talking about this reaction at all (or any similar reactions in any degree of detail), and a lack of data on enthalpies of formation for the intermediate products. I believe the copper is acting as a catalyst, that’s all I really know. Does anyone have an idea on what’s going on?

2/2

>>10546653
I googled the use and found the reaction in a patent when I googled it tbqh

>>10546706
+1 for honesty

How do melt salt?

>>10546676
>>10546684
I'm not sure about the reaction, but I'd consider such long time scales (months especially) when using hydrogen peroxide.
It decomposes readily to form water and oxygen, and the rate of this decomposition is increased by presence of base. A test with a lit splint would confirm the presence of oxygen in a similar manner to hydrogen and can create a pop similar to the hydrogen flame test. It could be that is the gas which is evolving, as I can't think of a way hydrogen would evolve.

>>10546854
to add to that, try testing the gas with a glowing splint (not fully lit) and see if it reignites. That would confirm oxygen.
The squeeky pop test can show a pop for both hydrogen and oxygen but hydrogen is usually louder. It is still possible to confuse the two.

>>10546854
>>10546861

I’ll definitely try that, though it’ll take a while given the time scales, especially for the second reaction.

I still believe it’s something more than just H2O2 decomposition though. I did make control groups. One group was just copper in distilled water, then copper in a solution of NaHCO3, then copper in a solution of NaOH (0.167M), and one in just H2O2. The results are as follows after leaving my control groups alone for a month:

Distilled Water = No reaction observed
Sodium Bicarbonate = light blue solution
NaOH =No reaction observed
Peroxide =The copper oxidized and turned black

The copper in the NaOH/ peroxide solution did not turn black and remained shiny; again, no color change in the solution. About half the copper in the NaHCO3/ H2O2 solution dissolved and formed a dark azure solution.

Another observation I forgot to mention:
-When the peroxide is used up for the NaHCO3 solution, adding more peroxide turns the solution black, probably forming copper oxide. No bubbles are observed forming, and plastic wrap placed over the flask does not move, indicating no appreciable gas formation.
-Bubbles formed in the NaOH/ H2O2 solution only came from the copper despite abundant nucleatiin sites in the flask.
-I tried the NaHCO3/ H2O2 solution with silver and nickle and got the same results.

>>10547037
Also I should mention that, unfortunately, my milligram scale broke and I was unable to get the masses of the metals before and after the reactions. Only got the mass of NaOH (after drying it in my oven for 3 hours at 110°C, don't have the equipment to do a proper titration unfortunately).

>>10547037
So copper(0) metal in aqueous sodium carbonate solution forms a blue solution?
That's kind of strange, as it would have to be oxidised to Cu(II) to form copper carbonate. The only explanation I could think of is that there is somehow already Cu(II) that you are adding along with the metal or instead of it.

>>10546848
a lot of heat. why do you wanna

>>10547103
The copper was from some speaker cables I had (only had scraps, not a lot). I cleaned it with citric acid and rinsed it in a separate bicarbonate solution to neutralize the acid and then rinsed it several times in distilled water. I'm fairly confident there wasn't any contamination. Perhaps the copper is oxidizing in the water, and that oxide is reacting with the bicarbonate very, very slowly? I know you can clean copper pennies in NaHCO3 if you let it sit long enough (something I've done before, and the oxide layer will react with it and turn the bicarbonate blue).

Also the zinc was some zinc I bought online (99.7% pure), the silver was from bullion (99.999% pure).

>>10547248
sorry not zinc, nickel

>>10547248
Yeah maybe. I think copper will oxidise with atmospheric oxygen over time, and seeing as you've got quite a long timescale it could be feasible.
You would expect the copper to form a black surface (copper oxide) as it oxidises which is probably what's happening in your peroxide only experiment (it could be the oxygen evolved from peroxide that accelerates this process).

>>10547302
So overall I think your first reaction could be the oxidation of copper to copper oxide (just with atmospheric oxygen), which then dissolves bicarbonate in solution possibly to form basic copper carbonate. This would evolve carbon dioxide gas. When you add acid to this it should decompose to form a copper salt and carbon dioxide.

The gas observed with the flame might just be oxygen from hydrogen peroxide decomposition.

Anyway those are just my thoughts, there's probably people in the thread who might have better ideas.

>>10547589
>>10547302
Oh and it's worth noting that copper oxide catalyses hydrogen peroxide decomposition

>>10532197
In theory anything could be a very weak base, but it must have a proton somewhere to be an acid

When it comes to volatile organic compounds, if something still has an odor, does that mean it's still off-gassing and emitting toxic chemicals? For example, the smell of plastic. Does the fact that I can smell it (plastic) mean I am inhaling toxic chemicals?

I have a computer 2m away from me which I added new components to, and some of them smelled of chemicals/plastic when unboxing. Would an open window and a fan be enough ventilation? Would using one of those painting respirators be good enough when it comes to VOCs? I can't smell anything with it on...

If I check for truth of the langmuir isotherm. And plot p/v against p where is the equation I can take the slope 1/V and check for he y-intercept.

Where is K=1/(V*p) coming from ?

>>10547589
When I added the ascorbic acid in the first reaction, no salt formed, it knocked the copper out of solution. Bubbles only formed during the acid addition when all the copper was out of solution. I took the copper, filtered it off, rinsed it with distilled water, and then just kept it in a dram vial in the water. Funny thing is that the vial it was originally in was knocked over and it slowly leaked out because I didn't close the cap all the way and didn't notice for a few days. It dried with air bubbles in it so it's all light and frigile. P cool imo.

Pic related, the sample.

>>10547776
Whoops I made a few mistakes sorry for that I'm writing from my phone.

Ok let's make it clearer. I check for the langmuir isotherms by dividing p/v which is given I plot it check for the function y=mx+b. So V=1/m 1/KV=b, for calculation of the constant I use K=1/(V*p) but where is it coming from ?

>>10547799
Try adding HCl instead of ascorbic acid to it maybe
If you have basic copper carbonate then adding HCl to it would form carbon dioxide and a copper (II) salt. I'd say chuck an excess of HCl in there (relative to base) and see what happens.
I'm doubtful that it's copper metal which is coming back out of solution, as that would suggest it is reducing back from Cu(II) to Cu(0) when you add ascorbic acid and I don't see how that could happen.
I think the formation of basic copper carbonate is the most likely cause, as if we use the pathway you suggested (formation of copper hydroxide catalysed by sodium peroxide) then it should work with the NaOH solution as well.
I think the formation of a copper (II) oxide surface on the metal also explains the bubbles fairly well, as that would then catalyse hydrogen peroxide decomposition to water and oxygen.

>>10547841
>>10547799
actually hold on scrap that
I forgot ascorbic acid is a mild reducing agent so it does make sense that copper precipitates

If you can, try HCl and that will form a salt and carbon dioxide with basic copper carbonate (if it is present).

>>10547868
>If you can, try HCl and that will form a salt and carbon dioxide with basic copper carbonate (if it is present).

I don't have the right kind of HCl on me rn, the best I can do is sodium bisulfate, vinegar, or the HCl in my toilet bowl cleaner. I can run to the hardware store after I get paid next week and buy some though.

>>10547893
Acetic acid might work although I think you'll have to heat the solution (50 degrees centigrade should do it) for it to form copper (II) acetate, water and carbon dioxide.
Copper (II) hydroxide would also react with acetic acid, but that would not form carbon dioxide.

I think HCl would react at room temperature to decompose the copper carbonate so it would probably be better, but you can try acetic acid as well. The only thing is I'm not sure how well household vinegar will work, which is why I'd suggest HCl if you can.

But yeah I'd think that's where you should go with your experiment.
1) Test the gases evolved in the hydrogen peroxide experiments with a glowing splint to double check whether or not it's oxygen. This goes particularly for the NaOH/Peroxide copper experiment, as I think you could be seeing a copper oxide layer form which then catalyses peroxide decomposition, explaining the bubbles at the metal itself.
2) Try to determine whether you have basic copper carbonate in your sodium bicarbonate solutions by reacting with acid (ideally HCl) and observing for the evolution of CO2.

>>10547948
ah shit, I just realised CO2 would form in your bicarbonate solution anyway regardless of copper carbonate being present or not when you add acid (assuming you have base left over). It would be quite difficult to test this way therefore.

>>10547996
>>10547948
Oh well, I still reckon copper carbonate is what you have in your first solution. It makes the most sense as, if it were copper hydroxide, your second experiment should also form it, and also based on the fact that it seems to form when added to only bicarbonate solution.

>>10548029
Oh damn I just double checked online and it looks like basic copper carbonate is insoluble in water anyway. So shit.
If it is copper oxide forming then it cam be reacting in alkaline solution to make a Cuprate salt, but then why this is happening for sodium bicarb solution and not NaOH in your experiments I am not sure.

Well I've gotten myself confused now so fuck

Thanks to google though I think I may have part of an answer
I've found this here https://wat.lewiscollard.com/archive/www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/chem03/chem03822.htm
which suggests that H+ released from the sodium bicarbonate could actually oxidise the copper metal. This would form your Cu(II) in solution while releasing H2 (two H+ are reduced to form hydrogen gas).
This would be an incredibly slow reaction as bicarbonate has a high pH (low conc of H+), but I suppose your timescales are quite long so it makes sense.

So that's what's happening I reckon. The bicarbonate slowly oxidises the metal to Cu(II) which then enters the solution, maybe as copper hydroxide

That would then explain why no reaction is occurring with NaOH, but we're seeing blue solution with the sodium carbonate

>>10532655
>>10532635
the reaction produces H2 as well as tthe aluminum anion stabilized by Na, bubble it through water into a balloon or something to capture it, did you not have freshman level lab courses?

>>10532670
diprotic

>>10547996
>>10548029
>>10548349

Interesting, so maybe we’re both right? I remembered I took a video of one of my experiments adding ascorbic acid to the solution. You can see what I mean about the bubbling. It also appears there’s a little bit of bubbling at the beginning, but not nearly as much as when there’s an excess of ascorbic acid added. Also if you know of a place I can upload the good quality 15mb webm to, pls let me know.

https://webmshare.com/play/439XB

Either way, I’m curious to continue experimenting. There doesn’t seem to be a clear answer here and that’s pretty exciting.

>>10543766
go look at the equation for FPD and see its relationship with van't hoff factor, if you want more secuity, look into your solute's activity instead of concentration

>>10548658
Yeah I reckon you could have a decent lead now.

So we'll say for your bicarbonate/peroxide/copper experiment and bicarbonate/copper experiment, the blue solution can be explained by oxidation of copper via the H+ from solution (which can be released from HCO3-). This evolves hydrogen gas and forms Cu(II) ions. Oxygen might also be evolving from decomposition of peroxide. When you add the ascorbic acid this reduces the copper II ions back to copper metal which precipitates.

The NaOH/Peroxide/Copper and NaOH/copper doesn't form the blue solution as there is no H+ released from the base to be reduced. There might still be oxidation of the copper to copper oxide (from atmospheric oxygen), and this would then catalyse hydrogen peroxide decomposition which is why you still see bubbling. The gas evolved in this solution should therefore be oxygen.

Whether the hydrogen peroxide aids in oxidation of the copper I am not too sure. Seeing as the Hydrogen peroxide/copper solution turns the copper black while the distilled water control does not, I would say that it does. Maybe this is just because of the oxygen released from hydrogen peroxide decomposition (which in turn would be catalysed by CuO).

>>10548736
Fuck yeah, this is making so much more sense than the rout I was taking before. It's amazing how complicated something so simple can be. Thanks for all the help and input anon! I appreciate it a lot. Will update if I learn something new.

>>10548765
No problem man, be sure to put me in your acknowledgements when you send this off to nature

Anyway I could be totally wrong, but really this is the best solution I can come up with. Maybe there's an even simpler explanation that I'm missing, if there is hopefully another anon will correct me.
It's quite an interesting experiment though.

>>10547684
now we're talking. But it's only required to have a proton in order to be acid by the Bronsted-Lowry or Arrhenius theories of acid; the Lewis theory, which is a superset of those two, does not require an H in order to be an acid. For example, "e boron halides BF3, BCl3, BBr3, and BI3 are all Lewis acids and do not contain hydrogen. AlCl3 and AlBr3 are also common Lewis Acids used in Friedel-Crafts chemistry". So if anything could be a very weak base, couldn't anything also be a very weak Lewis acid?

Where my orgobros at

Undergrads need not respond

>>10548783
>>10548765
>>10548658
Oh and I just had a thought that I should mention
It's probably not as relative now but when I said to test for sodium bicarbonate with HCl I should have made it clear that I was talking about the just bicarbonate/copper solution and not the one with peroxide.
I would be wary of adding HCl to any solution that might still contain hydrogen peroxide as it could evolve chlorine gas which is not something you would want. This could ultimately just form HOCl when reacted with water but I would be careful in any case.

>>10549085
*relevant
not relative, I should go to bed

>>10549085
oh definitely, I've got that covered

>>10541391
Hybridization and bonding schemes. The fact that I'm ass at drawing though probably doesn't help

>>10546672
The same one used during WW1? Won't that fuck my shit up?

>>10550553
yeah in high amounts I think it dissolves your lungs if you breath it in. Probably causes severe damage to your eyes/skin too.
If there's a chance something will release chlorine gas it's usually best not to do the experiment outside of a fume hood with proper safety equipment. If you're just doing bucket chemistry at home then it's best just to look up the reagents you're thinking of mixing together online before doing it if you're unsure.

>>10550553
chlorine is a strong irritant which is why it wasn't too effective of a weapon; because the troops could tell it was being used and got their masks quickly. well that's one of the reasons

What's a good source to learn about rates and redox potentials, as they relate to organic chemistry? I feel like these are lacking in your typical Ochem curriculum.

Can I simply look at the oxidation potential of, say, DDQ, compare it to the theoretical oxidation potential of my novel system and go from there? Assuming reactivity, solubility, etc. are all compatible

>>10550553
I accidentally made chlorine once when I was working up a reaction. The reaction involved an oxidation with Oxone. I didn't properly quench the excess oxone, transfer the reaction mixture to a separate funnel, added a little brine to separate the emulsion and Bam! Within 1 min I got a yellowish green color in the aqueous layer. Wondered wtf it was so I removed the stopper and leaned in and got a sharp and sudden piercing stench that made me instantly flinch.

I later looked at the SDS and product info and apparently Oxone reduces halides to halogens.

>>10551502
Yea I do this. There's a resource out there, I might be able to hunt it down for you in a day or two

So, as we know, H2O2 + H2SO4 -> H2SO5 + H2O

But, what if I used NaHSO4 instead? What would I get?

>>10551741
>looked at the SDS
>later
a true /sci/entist

undergrad senior chem major who wants to become medfag here. I'm taking a physical chemistry class for quantum mechanics (required) and I find it interesting. Is it better to pursue chemistry or physics for grad school if I wanna do more quantum stuff?

>>10552841
no idea but I'd guess physics / bamp

>>10551746
bump

>>10551859
Tested that out in a test tube. My solution immediately turned yellow and gave off a pungent odor. Pretty sure it made SO2. Would not recommend.

Is cheminformatics a cool field?

>>10532625
Hcl + al/zn

>>10533636
Not easy, you can't get the reagents and need make them from scratch, lab meteriel is more expensive than it looks like and eventually adds up

>>10547799
Doesnt look like copper, anon

>Ochem2 lab
>working with a very concentrated sulfuric acid solution
>girl works by herself and rushes through the experiment
>spills sulfuric acid on her arm
>starts crying and TA has to calm her down
bitch got what she deserved

>>10555888
you're right, there's too many women in science

>tfw waiting for my geometry optimisation calculation to finish

got an hour to kill, what do

>>10556014
>geometry optimisation calculation
what of?

>>10532158
Im going to college next fall
What should I expect starting a biochem undergrad?

>>10556032
im doing work on some volatile organic compounds, trans 3hexanal currently

>>10556041
You computational chem?

Redpill me on the field/subject. Thankfully, for some reason the graduate department segregates the organic chemists and computational chemists in different buildings so I rarely ever see or talk to any of them

Are there people who actually enjoy studying inorganic chemistry?

>>10556036
Are you transferring from community college or straight off high school?

Why did you pick Biochemistry? It's a good versatile major in terms of job market and graduate school

>>10556265
straight out of high school
I picked biochem because its what I find interesting, in specific I want to go into drug research and synthetic biology in the army
https://www.army.mil/article/217752/army_lab_industry_announce_partnership_to_develop_new_materials
the concept that i was probably just some milk or chicken or some shit my dad ate with alot of protein in it and then life came from that is fascinating

>>10556114
its basically dealing with formatting input files on supercomputers that have no gui, you can sort of jew a comp sci education from it if you specialise in it during undergrad. can be pretty lucrative.

>>10557110
that wounds ideal but I never heard of it til now. The applied programming - science hybrids like what you said and bioinformatics seem ideal and a lof of fun, but I never hear anything about them. Maybe it's a well-kept secret for a reason

Bump for chemistreet

>>10533557
Where do you live?

>>10557110
what languages do you need to know in order to do this?

/sci/,

Can the following reactions occur at room temp?

MgO+H2O Mg(OH)2

Mg(OH)2 + K2CO3 MgCO3 + 2(KOH)

Can KOH deprotonate the amide group of C16H17N3O?

What happens (if anything) when:

C10H12O (Anethole) + KOH + CO2 + (H3O+) + H2CO3

are combined in a 50/50 ethanol/H2O solution at room temp, standard atm, and allowed to sit for 24 hours?

Various sources indicate (see links below) that Anethole + KOH Anol in an alcoholic solution, but usually require it to be boiling or for it to be put in an autoclave and boiled at several atms above standard. Could Anethole + KOH + CO2 Anol in 50/50 ethanol/H2O solution at room temp, standard atm, and allowed to sit for 24 hours? I guess what I'm asking is can:

C10H12O [Anethole] + 2(KOH) + 2(H3O+) + H2CO3 + CO2 C9H10O [Anol]+ K2CO3 + 4 (H2O) + C2H4O2 [Acetic Acid]

in 50/50 ethanol/H2O solution at room temp, standard atm, and allowed to sit for 24 hours?

{Links}:

https://chemistry.mdma.ch/hiveboard/methods/000444195.html

(bottom of page is Anethole + KOH Anol reaction)

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/pdf/10.1098/rspb.1940.0009

(ctrl+f potassium hydroxide, anol. Namely the experimental section describes the formation of Anol from Anethole)

https://books.google.com/books?id=XxMKAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA520&lpg=PA520&dq=anethol+%2B+KOH+-%3E+anol&source=bl&ots=d1NutLjinG&sig=ACfU3U3P21VZXH-yxpvFwcaZmBX7CAeCbg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwim-O3k8J7hAhUCmeAKHTmKAwsQ6AEwDXoECAcQAQ#v=onepage&q=anol&f=false

(click page 520, it describes "Fused with caustic potash [KOH] Anethol [Anethole] becomes so-called Anol...")

>>10556036
nothing, because you'll be taking chem 1. Easy

>>10556278
gross. don't work for the military

>>10559015
I can't put in alt+26 arrows? R U CEREAL? Hopefully I don't greentext...

Lemme redo:

Can the following reactions occur at room temp?

MgO + H2O --> Mg(OH)2

Mg(OH)2 + K2CO3 --> MgCO3 + 2(KOH)

Can KOH deprotonate the amide group of C16H17N3O?

What happens (if anything) when:

C10H12O (Anethole) + KOH + CO2 + (H3O+) + H2CO3

are combined in a 50/50 ethanol/H2O solution at room temp, standard atm, and allowed to sit for 24 hours?

Various sources indicate (see links below) that Anethole + KOH --> Anol in an alcoholic solution, but usually require it to be boiling or for it to be put in an autoclave and boiled at several atms above standard. Could Anethole + KOH + CO2 --> Anol in 50/50 ethanol/H2O solution at room temp, standard atm, and allowed to sit for 24 hours? I guess what I'm asking is can:

C10H12O [Anethole] + 2(KOH) + 2(H3O+) + H2CO3 + CO2 --> C9H10O [Anol]+ K2CO3 + 4 (H2O) + C2H4O2 [Acetic Acid]

in 50/50 ethanol/H2O solution at room temp, standard atm, and allowed to sit for 24 hours?

{Links}:

https://chemistry.mdma.ch/hiveboard/methods/000444195.html

(bottom of page is Anethole + KOH --> Anol reaction)

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/pdf/10.1098/rspb.1940.0009

(ctrl+f potassium hydroxide, anol. Namely the experimental section describes the formation of Anol from Anethole)

https://books.google.com/books?id=XxMKAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA520&lpg=PA520&dq=anethol+%2B+KOH+-%3E+anol&source=bl&ots=d1NutLjinG&sig=ACfU3U3P21VZXH-yxpvFwcaZmBX7CAeCbg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwim-O3k8J7hAhUCmeAKHTmKAwsQ6AEwDXoECAcQAQ#v=onepage&q=anol&f=false

(click page 520, it describes "Fused with caustic potash [KOH] Anethol [Anethole] becomes so-called Anol...")

>>10559027
but they'll pay for my undergrad and grad school 100%

>>10559109

Not the anon you replied to but do NOT work for the military. Paying off your debt is bait for them to OWN your ass. You fuck something up? Have fun being drilled over and over and over until you get it right. Didn't do it fast enough? Guess who gets to go to a meeting to re-learn his exact job description and how to listen, all while wasting more of your time off. Everything NOT in the proper order? While you sit there in shame as your boss throws all your shit on the ground that was already almost in perfect order, you get to clean up everything and have it the way it was supposed to be by the time he gets back. Don't let yourself have no escape route (quitting) from a horrible boss, keep your freedom and make your own money.

>washing stuff out on the sink after lab
>hands under stream
>brainlet comes up behind me, doesn't even wait his turn, and dumps a bunch of CARBON FUCKING TETRACHLORIDE straight into the sink
>almost onto my hands
>recoil immediately and nearly fall into a tray of supplies
>didn't even neutralize it, threw it active straight down the pipes
>school's plumbing goes to shit less than a week later

>>10559152
what were the consequences for him? better be good or I'll be made til I forget about this. such people should never be allowed in a lab in the first place

>>10559165
He never got reprimanded for it and I didn't put two and two together until my senior year when I recounted it to the lab director. He was like, "Is THAT what happened?" and then it clicked.
I was just mad about almost getting my skin eaten off.

>>10559152

Would this create HCl on contact with water? I know that dichlorofluoromethane is used as a refrigerant and is quite reactive, would this absorb through the skin and be extremely toxic? Still sounds really idiotic and a danger to others.

>>10559181
Can't say what would happen mixing with water, but I've seen that shit eat straight through an orange.

>>10559181
Actually, looked it up. It's not even polar. No degradation, no dissolving. Just poison. Solvent poison.

>>10559188
Will keep in mind CCl4 corrosiveness!

>>10559203
>>10559188
>>10559217

Yeah, even though the C-Cl bonds are polar (0.5, 0.3-1.4 = polar) the tetra symmetry cancels the polarity of the molecule. So because H2O and CCl4 are polar and nonpolar the two are immiscible and no reaction occurs.

>>10559188
I don't even think the worst part is the corrosivevness, it gets absorbed by skin into the blood stream and has effects on vital organs. I hope you didn't get a whiff of it and in any case, if you see that guy again give him a Bas Rutten liver shot and tell him now you're about even

>>10547684
brainlet detected

fuck this meme degree. Graduated with honours, had 4 research internships, applied for 8 months after I graduated for jobs to be an idiot lab monkey for a couple dollars above minimum wage.
Got 1 interview in that time with the only technical question being "How would you prepare a 1 litre solution of 1 molar sodium chloride."
Said fuck it and went back to a technical college for computer programming. I was self-teaching for about 6 months before that. I just finished 2 semesters and already got more interviews than I ever did with chem. I just interviewed for a junior dev at an AI company, starting pay 55k.
Maybe its worth it if your country has a strong chemistry industry, but don't do it if you're from Canada

>>10559484
wrong

>>10559501
yeah this sounds about right. pretty funny that it takes so much less education in a hot field to earn so much more. just how it is though

What's a good way to make hydrochloric acid if I have H2 and Cl2? Can bubbling them through water work?
UV light apparently triggers a reaction to form HCl gas, so if I slowly feed the gasses into an illuminated UV chamber above water will that give me a slowly concentrating HCl solution and no explosions?

Just graduated, how do I into a career that's not $18/hr QC work through a staffing agency

>>10532197
If it has a hydrogen it is technically an acid

For bases I'd wager anything besides hydrogen ions are a base. If you force it H+ will get desperate and overlap with anything (I.E. the lovely CH5+) but this only happens under extreme circumstances. I believe these are superacids but I can't say for certain.

The fact that basically every compound could be a base, the terms "acid" and "base" become relative terms, which is why they're used in reference to their reaction environment. As an example, in ochem, alkynes become acidic in the presence of hydride.

>>10559547

http://chemed.chem.purdue.edu/demos/main_pages/10.7.html

*Do not try! This is only speculative idea!*

Put both gases in a clear tube that can be sealed at both ends but has a way to relieve pressure (use thick glass in case the reaction is exothermic and to resist pressure, no plastic it could dissolve try to use cork to seal and clamp shut so it don't pop off). Put in dark room in front of blacklight exposed overnight. Should be all HCL gas now, take sealed tube shove in ice bucket in freezer. Gas should condense to liquid overnight. Slowly in a well ventilated area with the proper protection relieve the pressure of the sealed tube. Once the pressure is relieved, undo clamp, pop off one end of cork with corkscrew pour out HCL liquid in a proper container. Be aware that the sealed tube could pop at any moment because of too much pressure. Buying an ass ton of muriatic acid for dissolving bodies attracts attention and gets expensive ;3.

>>10558979
you could survive knowing no languages, in the UK i just took a comp chem module in 2nd year, advanced comp chem in 3rd year and did my masters in coarse grained simulation. didnt even know any python until some crash course in it (a few lectures) during 4th year

>>10560210
damn that's really cool and gives me some hope for this bioinformatics job I want. Thank you anon

>>10559504
why would you consider all bases as lewis bases but acids as brontsted acids? Pick one or the other you faggot

>>10560399
ok I was only looking at the first half, you're right :^)

>>10558416
Tacolands, and in a place that is far away from the places with the high concentration of manufacturing areas, most things here are for CS people or mining extraction, but like I mentioned, the jobs on that section are given mostly to friends and family of the higher-ups

>>10560570
damn son, why would you have studied that if you live all the way out there. can you move?

.sav

Any chemists here struggle with the decision to go for a PhD based on their fear of public speaking?

>>10533366
If I recall correctly H2 binds to the surface of the PT and is then stripped off one at a time

>>10559035
Update:

Can the following reaction occur at room temp?

MgO + H2O --> Mg(OH)2

Fuck no. Heat is required, you need hot water.

-------------------------

So after some thinking of what could all react to form KOH when Ketologic Keto BHB, Great Value Dragon Fruit Energy Drink Mix, Mountain Dew Ice, Ethanol with acetaldehyde, ~15-20 mL of Anise extract, and powderized MG seeds that contain C16H17N3O combine [see pic for all ingredients]:

Combining a solution of many Mg salts (Mg BHB) with alkaline water [H2O made alkaline with amide (C16H17N3O), ether (Anethole), and various other buffering agents to raise the pH of solution present] with Carbon Dioxide (g) as an oxidizer to help drive the reaction to the right at room temp. given enough time should induce precipitation of solid Mg(OH)2:

Mg + 2 OH− --> Mg(OH)2

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_hydroxide

So if that is the case then:

Mg [2(C4H7O3-)] + 2(H2O) --> Mg(OH)2 + 2(C4H8O3)

Magnesium BHB + 2(water) --> Magnesium Hydroxide + 2(BHB)

should work...right?

Next:

MgO(s) + CO2 (g) --> MgCO3 (s)

Unfortunately, there is Silicon Dioxide in the Keto BHB used. Wiki states "Silicon dioxide will neutralize basic metal oxides (e.g. sodium oxide, potassium oxide, lead(II) oxide, zinc oxide, or mixtures of oxides, forming silicates and glasses as the Si-O-Si bonds in silica are broken successively)."

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_dioxide

However the amount of SiO2 should be less than MgO, so while some MgO is neutralized the rest should react with CO2 to form MgCO3.

Next:

MgCO3 (s) + K3C6H5O7 (s) --> MgKC6H5O7 (s) + K2CO3 (s)

magnesium carbonate + tripotassium citrate --> potassium magnesium citrate + potassium carbonate

This reaction should proceed at room temp. considering:

MgCO3 + K2CO3 --> K2Mg(CO3)2

happens at room temp.

source: https://chemiday.com/en/reaction/3-1-0-7261

Finally:

Mg(OH)2 + K2CO3 -->MgCO3 + 2(KOH)

but at room temp?

DFT is fucking black magic, who the fuck came up with this?