/sci/ - Science & Math

>>10520269
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._F._Skinner#Superstition_in_the_pigeon

>>10520269
there's no straight answer to that OP

>>10520279
Have any theories?

>>10520269
>be me
>pharoah of ancient egypt
>entire society is basically slaves who could uprise at any time
>hehe, they think im a god tho
>wtf? that astronomy anon i hired is walking in
>astronomy anon: "hey pharoah, i was like looking through my telescope and doing some stylus-and-papyrus calculations, and i'm prrreeeettttyyyy sure the moon is going to block out the sun in two weeks"
>me: "wtf. that's some bs bro, why did i hire you?"
>astronomy anon: "pharoah, please don't kill me. i know it's hard to believe but please please just trust me this once. this could be big"
>me: "fine anon. hey wait a minute, like it will actually BLOCK the SUN?"
>astronomy anon: "yeah"
>me: "why?"
>astronomy anon: "because it just follows patterns, very regular patterns. look at all my little heiroglyphs i wrote to prove it."
>me: "fuck. okay, we can use this....."
>i go out on my pyramid balcony
>me: "Gather, Ancient Egyptians!"
>"I, your God, know that the Sun will be Eaten by the Moon! This is a catastrophe."
>"But if you believe in me, and follow my orders, and pay your taxes, and like, don't eat pork or some shit, then I, Your God, will be able to Save the Sun from Destruction!!!!"
>"you must have faith!!!!!!!"
>*applause*
>
>two weeks later
>it fucking happens
>damn bro
>go out on pyramid balcony
>"Yea, Ancient Egyptians, I did it, just like I promised!"
>"I TOLD you to have faith, and you did!"
>"We saved the sun, because you were good, loyal followers! Keep it up!"
>"Worship Me!!!!!!"

Read it.

>>10520295
thanks, seems like a good read

>>10520269
Read
> The Orgin Of Consciousness In The Breakdown Of The Bicameral Mind
by Julian Jaynes

If true, then religion stems from a form of polytheism inherent to the bicameral mind, which purportedly was the last common mental state before humans developed consciousness.

>>10520287
Well, if you read the Old testament/Tanakh there is one view
>>10520274 is another option, however i don't agree with the experiment itself, but the idea of superstitions is plausible
and then you've got the idea that a ruler could have made it all up similar to >>10520290

personally i like the idea of a deity myself, allows for a stronger set of moral code when its from a being that is overall better/above you

>>10520269
I hurt myself only to see if I even want to heal anymore, for nobody else to date has chosen to observe my silent joy or pain. So if I am only the construct of myself and disciplined thoughts, then why do people dissuade me from my suicide?

>Why do humans torture God and divinity collectively?

>>10520308
>and then you've got the idea that a ruler could have made it all up similar to >>10520290 (You)
the fact is that religion is a super super effective tool for social control. it has motivated more wars than anything else in history. nobody denies this. it's just a hard pill to swallow for a lot of people that the people who control society manipulated the general public to do their bidding for centuries. but unfortunately it's the simplest and most logical explanation for the proliferation of false/imaginary information

>>10520269
Because God created His religion with His covenant with Abraham and appointed Peter to build His Church.

>>10520331
what are your opinions on Martin Luther, jesus-anon? are protestants absolute heretics?

>>10520335
What is a heretic? A faithful that truncates their belief at a different interpretation of a religious abstraction?

>>10520338
up to you. generally i think of a heretic as someone who takes a different opinion to the dogma, that the dogma can't accept

anyhow what are your opinions on Luther? that whole "Peter founded the one true church" thing sounds very catholic/orthodox to me, and unfortunately most christians sweep the theological implications of the reformation under the rug so that they can present some false "united front". and the fact they can't all agree is more evidence that they're all bullshitters

>>10520350
You mean Peter or Simon? Or am I mixing that up with Paul?

>>10520330
I think this is the case for the west. If you look at the East in general, religions such as Buddhism, Hinduism, Shintoism, and all there variants, they seem more as a method of creating social cohesion; people focus more on the benefit of the whole then for the benefit of themselves. Although Christianity did serve this purpose, it became much more aggressive then any religion in the East ever did (at least i think, i'm not an expert on this).

>>10520269
Oh yeah, literally a kid asked where does he fo when he dies and his grandma was like 'you join the sky and watch us lol' and that great up with a superiority complex and he and his bros one day sat in a tent one day and discussed how to keep the tribe in check even when they were off hunting so they said only of your good do you join the sky, and then it worked and their neighbor tribes werw like damn cheif-anon how do u keep such well behaved yet impovrished citizens and hes like bruh get this I just promise them their reward after they die. NeighborCheif is like No freaking way dude, and Cheif-anon said yeah you just gotta make it seem like the next life is the one worth working for cause this one sucks anyway.
Obviously they start promising different things cause u know, telephone game lol, but how are u gonna feel when someone says you've been wasting your whole life toiling for the wrong God. Dude fuck that dude. He's got the wrong God. But your whole lives are on the table now so obviously one of them needs to end in bloodshed.

Trust me, I was there and was able to record the happenings of conversations that happened 10,000 years ago.

God reminds us through calamities, prosperity and prophets

>>10520350
Why does any dogma have rules for exclusion anyway? What fucking purpose does it serve?

>>10520356
If God reminds us then he denies us our own memories so God can reshape them as thus, but why would we want to give such of ourselves to one who has such desire or cause to inspire fear?

God is the ignorant child of ultimate birthing power: the collective ignorance of the moment.

>>10520352
I'm talking about Martin Luther.
maybe you aren't even godfag enough to tackle theology against an agnostic?

>>10520356
Did someone say profits?

>>10520365
Jesus dude, what God have you been praying to

>>10520367
I see you too enjoy looking at your neighbours spoons.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YXzubuENjHk

>this is fork country!

>>10520377
I think I need someone to explain what a prayer is to me at this point. If it is the same experience for everyone then surely the local priest's prayers should account for everyone within some radial distance, yes?

>>10520378
>posts monty python skit in reply to actual theological argument that apparently you can't grok much less formulate a response to
i should have known better, godfags can't even argue classic theology arguments against an agnostic who studies physics instead of god shit

>>10520385
How is it a theological argument to present a man who did exactly what Simon the Zealot did, when adjusted for the needs of that period in history? What does divinity have to do with an individual placing themselves as a rigorous argument for why the self is as valid a source of divinity when held as an ideal all can attain without rejection or exclusion?

>>10520393
let me simplify this.

you argued something about Peter founding Jesus' church. so who got it right: the Pope or Luther? which is the right church?

>>10520402
Fucking Luther, without further question or need to hold an alternative perspective based in logic or faith.

>>10520269
>Why have we developed religions? how is it that they form?
Because the universe is a big spooky fucking place with damn few comforting answers.

>>10520404
i don’t even know if you are agreeing with luther or criticizing him. maybe give some context? like “faith and good works” vs “faith alone” stuff for example

>>10520411
Apologies. I was using my vocalization emphasis, which obviously doesn't exist for anyone on the internet because how da fuk 1 evn trnslate dat?

I agree with Luther and sola fide that survives the oscillation of exeriences between isolation and union.

>>10520383
So considering you said 'priest' I take it you're Christian?
No, no one's prayers will account for you if you're not trying to pray/help yourself. Your relationship with God is one on one. But for sure, other people praying for the same cause/person can only help.

But regarding the whole "ignorance of the moment" thing earlier, youre missing the point of a Christian existence. This world is not perfect. It is not heaven. In fact it's purposefully filled with evil and chaos and suffering because that gives you opportunity to love thy neighbor and prove your worthiness for heaven. "Love" in this case means lift them up, or help them through a tough time and can be expressed in a million ways.
So many people ask why does Jesus/God allow something, but he's asking back why do you.
He's not ignorant or deceiving, he's just letting you play your own 'game'. At best he places little reminders, but just making you love him with the snap of his fingers isn't what he's looking for. That's the equivalent of a mail order bride.
The best part tho is you can lose this 'game' all the way up to the end and save yourself at the last second.

>>10520431
well i claim that faith alone is bullshit and that good works are actually real things even future humans will appreciate regardless of whose god you prefer

By-product of animistic bias

>>10520435
If the relationship is one on one, then why church? If church, then why not amortize the faith-cost through assembly line devotion?

Also if christian name is sufficient to herald a christian existence, then all paths lead to an arbitrary amalgamation of distribution by virtue of virginal memory and instantiation of an identity (AKA creation)

>>10520438
Faith alone is for the subscriber set (i.e. is eternal)
Good works is for the temporal-reference set (i.e. lasts longer)

>God is atemporal.

>>10520468
forgive me, but this sounds like total bullshit. if not, please explain more logically, rather than just making arbitrary claims with 0 rationale.

imo good works ARE eternal. Newton is still studied in-depth by undergraduates across the world despite a 350 year time difference

>>10520481
How can good works exist without there being succession? How can there be succession without prior submission that what came before required more light of God than what came before?

>Newton's discovery, as with all, are just languages of highly translatable phenomena. Aboriginal Australians, Indigenous Inuit/Eskimo, American Indians; why would their length of history not contain the same lesson by further abstracted into their own languages?

Also, arbitrary claims with 0 rationale : lemme carve shit into stone and tell everyone it is what an entire existence should be based on.

Good works are eternally recyclable because evil and suffering require them to be. Remove those constructs or at least put some daily effort into the optimization and minification of them (see: meditation) and you remove the need for good works to be anything other than a communal effort.

>>10520509
sounds like a hybrid of protestant shit with maharishi newage bullshit.

in addition you failed to answer the questions and went off on bullshit theories.

i conclude that you are a complete pseud shilling protestant shit with very little chops to back up either your scientific or theological shit, therefore you should be taken as literally as the newage fucks i reported in this thread:
>>10517884

>>10520523
So you need citations to feel like a conversation is worth your involvement? Whoah, how much intellectual and faith handholding do you require in life?

>Ad hominem conclusions demonstrate the ignorance of the observer, not the validity of what is presented. Light versus sight.

>>10520541
can you discern the fact that i have made real arguments while yours are total shill bullshit that really contain no content?

i cna't even reply to your shit since it genuinely has no content. maybe i reverse my opinion now.... godfags are worse than newage cunts. your style of argumentation ignores just about every argument and only focuses on your shill points. nobody who honestly cares about the truth would descend to your level, and i really mean that. you are a very sad person. if you want to continue this dialogue, please look at earlier posts and try to refute them in earnest

>>10520523
Also, how is the Maharashi effect any different than my collectivized priest prayer concept?

>>10520546
If you elevate or identify your arguments as above my own, then how would I know unless you tell me? Or is there a universal metric I am missing here that isn't tied to your personal life story of others telling you that you exist and that your expression has value both internally and externally.

If you wish to identify yourself as the only metric that matters then please know yourself as a unique individual that I cannot abstract or generalize to anything other than a worthy conversation partner.

Alright, for all those saying that it was mainly a way to control people, I think if you look through some of the most ancient history we know of, then it seems like this is not why religion is created. If you look at what we know of the small irrigation farm villages of the near east, then their religion was not centralized at all, and neither was their society. The villages has classes, but their wasn't really a central authority. But, people still had religions, they had traditions and beliefs. To me I think it's people just trying to rationalize the world with limited knowledge, but are there any other possibilities? why is it that when we don't know something, we instinctively make something up that we have no way of proving?

>>10520555
Does religion REQUIRE a collective or can there be a religion developed and held by an individual that would be seen as sufficiently valid as all other collectives?

It intensifies the desire for all in the tribe to commit to the same actions. When human tribes were small, this meant that those committing to the best actions based on their environments thrived over those with garbage actions. Unity is an important thing in tribal warfare, which is the paradigm that humanity has been evolving under for the past few hundred thousands of years. Religion boosts unity, so it has thrived memetically in human societies.

>>10520290
Religions probably existed far before any society as advanced as the Egyptians came about.

>>10520330
You're making the mistake of assuming that religion existed after any individual human's ability to control a populace with charisma. Religion (in the sense of a set of values shared by a tribal group) existed long before any human (or human-like sapien) was mentally capable of manipulating it.

>>10520553
>is there a universal metric I am missing here that isn't tied to your personal life
it’s called the “scientific method”

>>10520573
How would you reduce/refine/agree with the following?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Mathematics = Truth via individually verifiable circular arguments OR Let's argue about the number 1!

Engineering = Real world success via iterative process OR Watch me do the thing with the thing!

Science = Hypothetical consensus via grouped repetition OR Watch what happens when I do this everyone!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

>>10520582
yeah,
> Watch what happens when I do this everyone
is epistemologically superior to theories that fail at describing what actually happens

>>10520598
You're a JTF man I see.

>Queer Patrician

>>10520601
totally straight with a gf of iver a decade. try harder godfag

>>10520607
*over not iver

>>10520607
Queer just means homopathical, not homosexual. Patricians recognize tiers, not games.

>>10520435
>The best part tho is you can lose this 'game' all the way up to the end and save yourself at the last second.

While some sects roll with that, you’re completely ignoring sanctification which originally meant “healing” in Greek.

Living sinful as fuck daily til you hit the grave but going to church Sundays is a manmade doctrine that distorts what God’s judgement is. You’re completely missing the whole fucking point of WHY Jesus died FOR YOU. Never fucking once does he say to continue living in sin. He forgives but pay heed to the fate of a lukewarm Christian in Revelation. Pay attention to who is actually inheriting the Kingdom of God.

Through the love of Christ you deny yourself, deny all your wicked thoughts, attitudes, behaviors. You fill NEW wine in a NEW bottle. New fabric for a new garment. Planting a seed (Jesus’ word) in good soil (receiving his word and follow it). Jesus literally addresses your point about hearing the word but still reveling in a sinful life. That’s planting your seed on dry scorched earth, the seed dries up and dies.

Jesus fucking loves people, that’s why he gave us the Word in the first place to escape the cost of sin (death). By some one perpetually sinning and KNOWING that Jesus died is completely rejecting Him.

Don’t associate Jesus as an infinite ‘safety net’. If you keep sinning sinning and sinning, you’re damaging yourself and your relationship with God. Yes he does forgive ALL your sin. But don’t take it for granted. Jesus talks about Hell more than you think. He also says the path to Heaven is narrow, through the Sheppard gate. If it was easy to be change your sinful ways Jesus would have spoken about it, but he doesn’t for a reason.

Also, look at every fucking letter Paul wrote. That was the foundational church of Christ stemming from the apostles of Christ directly. As he ministered across the lands, he had to tell new converts about all the shit they were doing that was NOT okay.

>>10520615
oh so you admit you're a queer then?
typical religious anon crap. go molest some choir boys and fuck off my board

>>10520269
Because everyone wants to know what happens after death but are too pussy to kill themselves and find out.

>>10520621
If you are patriarchal, then you follow a homopathic existence because you are emulating a past male identity. How is it less gay than trying to appease teachings and idenities that are predominantly expressed by those who wield a phallus?

>>10520634
>/god/fag goes full SJW

this is so pathetic i really hope you delete your post

>>10520620
Can you not see how this philosophy marginally affects gene-propogation in the individual and thus thrives? Why do you have to assign theological implications to it? Why do you assert that it's evolutionary benefit implies absolute truth to the concept? Can you not understand that believing a falsehood may contribute to evolutionary fitness? Can we not utilize this falsehood better by understanding its true nature, that it is a falsehood? You are denying your Christ the full benefit of his abilities by asserting him as a fact.

>>10520639
Spiritual Jiainic Wisdom? That was a weird acronym for me to expect. How did you even know that term? Outside of India it is rare to see is all.

>>10520648
you confirmed newage bullshitter with your "Jain" shit. on the level of Zeus or Thor

>>10520269
>be me, indigenous man
>assemble some wood and fiber, makes bow and arrow
>shoot arrow at bunny, it dies
>scratch some rocks over wood, it creates fire
>realize that whever something happens, it's because someone did it
>notice, however, that there are things that happens and the one who did it is not known
>some times it rains, but none of the tribe men did it
>sun sets every day, but none of the tribe men does it
>concludes there are a lot of unseen entities who do those things
>starting praying to them to get more rain and shit
>a few centuries later
>some dudes think there is just one unseen entity who does all this shit
>guess it makes sense
>start praying to it
>calls it god or whatever

>>10520654
Newage? Do you even care about the recorded age of any religion for comparitive reasons?

>>10520657
>>concludes there are a lot of unseen entities who do those things
but are these unseen things "god"?

>>10520657
10 outta 10, Praise be and Amen.

>>10520670
Define God and we can provide assistance.

>>10520669
man, i'm done with you. i made good arguments and you dodged them. look upward in the thread and try to answer my earlier replies to your posts, and the answer will come to you

>>10520670
A lot of gods, but they are not omnipotent, they just can make it rain, bring the night, etc.

>>10520669
The recorded age of any religion is a far cry from the age of the genesis of religion, itself. Religion existed far before any organized religion even had thought to. Religion is an evolutionary adaption and, as thus, has no bearing on reality.

>>10520647
You went on a very wide tangent there anon, I was merely addressing that other anons point about lukewarm Christians.

>Can you not see how this philosophy marginally affects gene-propogation in the individual and thus thrives?
Statistically speaking I believe non-Christian-societies have a more poignant gene-thrive impact you’re speaking about. Unless you’re talking about philosophy variants in the realm of Christian thought, in which I guess Mormons and Africans are thriving through their gene propagation. But you’re asking a worldly question rather than a spiritual one as if spreading genes is a virtue.
>Why do you have to assign theological implications to it?
Please specify, you’re being vague and scattered in your questions. Theological implications to which point? The life free of sin? Living in sin but saying “Nah it’s all Gucci Jesus forgives me”? The pursuit of what it means to be righteous?

>Why do you assert that it's evolutionary benefit implies absolute truth to the concept?
I don’t know how you read my post and thought I was empathizing evolutionary benefits implying truth. I mean sure God is the ultimate eugenicist. But trying to answer your question here, following God’s word has resulted in a physical kingdom on earth that has spanned across 2000 years, more if you count OT. No America, No Rome, No Japan, No Mongols, No Chinese. No Zulu are even remotely close to maintaining traditions for that long. Eastern Orthodox is still going strong with the same doctrine from ~200ad, Catholics and Protestants have their schisms but you can see with more transparency on how assigning further human intervention with God results in strife.

>>10520690
>as if spreading genes is a virtue
Spreading genes does not have to be virtuous to be successful. Gene-propagation has no morality.
>Theological implications to which point
Why do you imply that successful genetic propagation has a theological basis?
>following God’s word has resulted in a physical kingdom on earth that has spanned across 2000 years
Prove that your specific religion has led to this, and that religion, itself, has not led to this independently.
>No Zulu are even remotely close to maintaining traditions for that long
What proof do you have that this is related to theology moreso than it is related to trade and geological resources?

Religion seems to benefit a race, genetically at some geographical point, but no specific religion seems to be better than any other one based on environmental impact as a whole. Religion may benefit a specific sub-population in one environment, but no single religion can ever benefit the entire population of the world.

>>10520647
Can you not understand that believing a falsehood may contribute to evolutionary fitness?
I agree with you. Why do you imply so many things about me that I never said? Stop twisting everything it’s annoying.

Can we not utilize this falsehood better by understanding its true nature, that it is a falsehood?
Finding falsehood and truth is a Godly pursuit, yes.
Give me an example of how this looks though?. If God is truth (He is) then it is fully supported by God to discriminate falsehood from truth. It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter(Proverbs 25:2)

You are denying your Christ the full benefit of his abilities by asserting him as a fact.
Denying Christ by denying that he is the Truth, The Way, The Life? Explain how Jesus supports us denying him. Obviously I can’t assert him as fact because I’m a man asserting the truth of the divine. But I personally believe in him 100% and if you look deep within His mysticism, His way, His word, You find love, peace, joy, mercy, wisdom, family, trust, faith, forgiveness, which I suppose are my virtues I strive for but also the ones God wants us to strive for. That’s exactly how Jesus lived, Nietzsche labeled Jesus as a true Übermensch and went crazy later on in life trying to live life denying him.

>>10520675
The True Church thing? The one true anything is relative so if you are asking from my perspective would I accept a Luther driven church sect rather than the current catholic setup then I would choose the Lutheran version.

However seeing as I am given only an option between two subsets within a set you are forcing me to believe the set is important by virtue of making a subselection within it. Which is just forced perspective/manipulation. What does one do with that?

>>10520689
Fair, genesis is either NOW or ALWAYS.

>>10520269
Primitive people made up stories to explain the natural world they observed and some exploited this further for power or amusement. Pretty obvious

>>10520709
>I agree with you.
In what way do you agree with me?
>the honour of kings is to search out a matter
Then "search out" the way that your gods' falsehood has bearing on reality.
>Explain how Jesus supports us denying him
Explain how this matters in regards to human suitability to particular environments. Why does believing in "Jesus" increase any particular humans' ability to survive in a particular environment?
>You find love, peace, joy, mercy, wisdom, family, trust, faith, forgiveness, which I suppose are my virtues I strive for but also the ones God wants us to strive for.
What proof do you have that it is not from your genetic makeup that you derive these qualities? Why do you believe that these qualities are "divine" and not created by billions of years of evolution?

>>10520707
>>10520707
I said “...as if spreading genes is a virtue. “
Yet again, you misquote me and twist words. I’d appreciate it if you work on fixing that. I never said spreading genes is a virtue. I agree that there is no morality nor virtue in gene propagation.

>implying theological basis for gene propagation
Quote me man. Please. Stop implying implications, it’s distorting your own understanding and pursuit of truth. I never said that, I was pretty clear in specifying that with Chinese, Mongolia, Africans, etc have all had their genes propagated without Christian theology involved.
>prove the kingdom is 2000 old
I told you before in the first post Eastern Othodoxy and other sects of Christianity has been following the same doctrine since the first church. Do I need to prove that there are churches now that have lived and died for Christ since early 200ad? What proof are you asking for specifically? Give you dates of church doctrine? Define a kingdom for you?
Also just for fun,
Look up the year. The worlds entire concept of time is based on the death of Jesus. A.D.No other religion has done such a thing.

>>10520736
>Chinese, Mongolia, Africans, etc have all had their genes propagated without Christian theology involved
Without ANY specific theology. Fixed that for you. Your specific religion has no bearing on reality.
>Do I need to prove that there are churches now that have lived and died for Christ since early 200ad
You need to prove that there are churches that have existed since before any single human being could wholly influence said churches. You cannot do that because religion has existed before individual humans had that capability. No single theology has any bearing on reality because religion is simply a way for individual tribes to triumph over other tribes based on random advantages.

It doesn't matter which religion "triumphed" in the end. It's all random in the beginning.

>>10520269
Social adaptation applied to nature when empirical adaptation failed.

>>10520731
That people believing lies can have a positive impact, a greater good. But I don’t think Jesus was that.
>search out gods’ falsehood has a bearing on reality
Are you talking cultural Marxism?
I agree with you 100% in that regard. Societies that are atheist in nature have had absolutely terrible results, communism is inherently anti-god, all man. But every time some new Stalin, Lenin, Mao or whatever wants to give it a whirl again, shit hits the fan.
>Jesus and environmental suitability
Huh, why are you asking me to explain Jesus environment and human suitability? Your constant mad tangents are comical at this point.
He sends us as sheep to ravenous wolves. The world is under the leadership of Satan. Fucking your neighbors wife. Stealing. Murders. Lies. Greed. Can you not see how avoiding these things is advantageous to your environment? There’s a reason the West has ruled the world for quite some time. The majority of them were founded upon a Christian baseline. Shoot that’s where the Magna Carta comes from, which is how the Constitution was drafted. Which is how we can even communicate freely on the internet to discuss such matters of God and godless. The existence (or in your argument the false belief in) God allows for us incredible freedom we would never have had the society been formed atheist. How familiar are you truly with Frankfurt School? Cultural Marxism? And where atheism spawned?

You are continually painting a murky picture of the intent of your posts. Be more clear. Be a better public speaker. What is the point of all your trifling side questions? I have no qualms in answering. You’re just speaking like a fresh college student who thinks the world is solely grounded in evolution and logic.

I feel like you haven’t read the Bible, speaking to you as a scholar isn’t going to work in your hubris, your constant twisting of words, and the lack of understanding of what’s in the Bible itself, and why Jesus is worth following.

>>10520745
If life is purely random how do you account for Bells theorem?

You asserting the lack of theology isn’t any more argumentative than me ascribing theological importance to what it means to be human. Have you read Bronfenbrennors Bioecological
Model of development? He maps out human development in a fascinating way that I think you’ll appreciate. Also I recommend Erickson+Marcias stages of development. I’m guessing your faith identity is in moratorium or foreclosed.

Genes are important, environment too. But there isn’t some math formula that accounts for how people will or will not become religious.

I’m off to bed. Fun talking. Have a solid night anon.

>>10520308
>be Yahwe
>create two retards
>they nigger up
>blame them for this
>bu-but I'm better than you
I think god as a being with higher reasoning ability is fairly recent invention, maybe even influenced by democracy, because that's the kind of ruler you would want, but back in the days god was just an owner like pharaoh, that doesn't need any reasoning ability, and it didn't.

>>10520789
I approve of this progressive interpretation for divine distribution amongst all information.

>Earth owned humans back then
>The cosmos/stars own humans now
>We are the universes translatable/exchangable experience holders and distributors for the universe.

Holy fuck how have humans not learned how to sell digital healing stories?

If cowards are everywhere then I am NOWHERE.

>>10520269

Not sure i believe it but i certainly like the idea that original notions of higher beings came from cosmological events

mostly cargo cult

>>10520789
i agree/disagree, i agree that the way god is viewed today does not match how he was originally viewed.
>with the whole i'm going to destroy you when i feel like it stuff
but at the same time there was a reasoning issue because one of the main books in the tanakh/old testament is the book of Job, which is suppose to add reasoning, and honestly even after reading it things don't quite make sense.

>>10520324
Based schizo poster

>>10520355
Based “mentally challenged” poster

>>10521095
It's a dude with his leg spread and arms in the air
also benis

>>10521109

Probably true, the dots do throw that therory off somewhat though. Like i say im far from convinced but it certainly is an intresting hypothesis. If an event of this natrue had occured i would almost be more surprised if it was not worshiped.

>>10521104
There can only be one!

>>10520269
A: They provide an answer for the unanswerable.
>What the fuck is lightning? It's Zeus of course.
B: The idea of an afterlife/etc helps people grieve
>He's in a better place
C: They help control populations and maintain order
>Don't murder anyone because God is always watching

>>10521138

All good points however i do wonder if they are even more fundermantal. It would not surprise me if some original worship came from sensationalised stories of real people who tribes had idolised and then gradually adapted into immortal beings. We wil probably never really know given the masave time period of religions being spread only by oral tradition. What does seem to hold true is that all of these religions are built off the back of these stories

>>10521096
Accounts for a lot of things. Debris of need and want codified by N-many humans needing to share time measurements so resources are not based on my hunger vs yours.

>>10520269
Consciousness is larger than human philosophy.

>>10522522
It isn't larger than our wish to be informed of how we could be more or those gifts that enable all to become. Wishes are collective and spread to those that hold belief, not humans that simply train their, "This does not match what I want," engine.

>>10520330
>motivated more wars
Need citation on this, their was the holy wars, but as far as i see it most where simply monarchs squabbling .

>>10520789
You could just as easily flip it and say God doesnt fit our modern sensibilities and therefore we reject him. Either way most stories from the bible are supposed to be myths. Its only thanks to retarded Americans that we have this fundamentalist view on Christianity.

>>10522527
Do not pretend to converse with me on my level of dialogue.

it mostly came from the jews and use it to control the masses great unwashed
like iq is a artificial jewish construct so is religion
real intelligence is not measured by jew points
why is ur conscience be judged by jew gods/ jew budda unless u are a robot animal

>>10520269
Because there are things we can't explain.

>>10522606
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8LmC5lcfvys

You prefer videos then?

>>10522696
thats what jew try to make u think robot animal
an truth seeking man with clear conscience and average intelligence can pretty much explain anything in nature and beyond
the jew on the other hand can only steal copy lie and bs
the jew saw and heard what the true man/men has said and shown and kill/expell/destroy the original true man/men and steal copy twisted true man's stuff called it religion and lie bs to the masses using fear and intimidation to gain power fame and money never telling the truth or telling little facts covered with lies
the jew even try to appear as the original true man by race mixing

>>10520269
>man becomes conscious
>holy shit what the fuck is going on
>better make shit up I can't handle all this uncertainty

>>10522988
I *prefer* nonexistence. Given the way you address others, yes, you're better of posting videos than pretending that your personal thoughts are on par with what generates mine.

>>10523176
If they are not equatable through active intent and good reasoned desire to communicate with something new then I would only build in me walls around myself.

>>10523275
I literally said stop pretending.

>>10523278
Literally? You typed it. I do not know what to pretend if either dictionary definition nor past memory can explain the message I recieve.

Why assume I pretend when I am void to begin with?

>>10523284
The answer to the last line of your post is answered by the network of implications emanating from the first paragraph.

>>10523287
Which first paragraph? I need the nearest-K neighbor explanation to a five year old sex slave please.

>>10523290
Literally stop pretending.

>>10520274
https://youtu.be/0pOI2YvVuuE?t=2m55s

Evolution has always supported seeing a pattern where there is none, the error you make is less deadly.

>>10523298
Why provide a response if disengagement is your preference? Are you bound by some autistic need to reply?

>>10523317
>disengagement
Nonexistence is my term. I know what I meant by it. Your assumption that your concept of it matches mine is invalid, and contrary to my actual definition. Therefore, you have insulted my preferences.

Do you think I want you insulting my preferences?

>>10523321
Best Internet Argument I've Ever Had Award.

You are fascinating.

>>10523331
Thanks, but I'd really rather have not existed in the first place. Doesn't really matter why I'm like this, does it?

>>10523335
If you are without predicate how are you an inspectable process?

>>10523353
I actually exist, so I can think and reason in a dynamic fashion. It's like being an AI, expect instead of a finite, computable version of myself, I have every conceivable outcome available to me.

The same problem recurs in humans, but it's a less abstract thing because we already have intuition to "feel" the world by.

Like I said, our thoughts will always be finite in comparison to consciousness as a potential.

When you see people keep dying because of plagues, sicknesses, murder, pillaging, all the other shit that was happening, i'd be believing in something too.

>>10523362
Yes, all global variables have to be assigned expanded memory before localized variables are.

This is a basic CRC memory domain information transferrence event.

>brofist

>>10523365
>plagues, sicknesses, murder, pillaging, all the other shit
"well obviously we're being loved by a super duper sky daddy"

retard

>>10520269
It's like saying why have we developed culture: humans have the capacity to socialise things and not be entirely restricted to the innate. 'Religion' as a distinct notion is recent and European, elsewhere and before it's just indistinguishable from your general culture and beliefs. This is emphasised even further with the difference between organised religion and natural religion.

>>10520269
It all started pre-Sumerian era, and they begun branching off to their separate sects for different geographical areas. This is debated and not concrete evidence, mind you, but it seems the most logical to me. There’s also emerging arguments that are going against a lot of widely accepted theories, for example that the Giza pyramids as well as the Sphinx were not built by the Egyptians, rather they’ve been around since before the ice age. personally I believe it to be true, Dr. Schoch’s analysis and reasoning behind his theory is quite sound. Research the recent debate about the age of the earth and the bridge between the Sumerian and the Egyptian eras and I think you’ll stumble on some knowledge in regards to the birth of religions.

>>10523438
This also means that being a 'follower' of a religion is incoherent: you either have the beliefs and culture or you don't, there's no assumption of a label. This is why East Asians are labelled as irreligious in stats, despite the fact that they're not, it's because the notion of religion is from the perspective of Abrahamic monotheism. An East Asian won't say they're a follower of Buddhism, without Western influence, if they're not a monk, despite believing in many aspects of Buddhism and other 'religions'. Most Chinese have a mix of religious beliefs from Taoism, folk religions (paganism), Buddhism, Confucianism, and so forth yet they're supposedly the most irreligious in the world.

Also, in regards to organised religion, I think it just results from a natural drive to establish one's beliefs, one's culture, so that it isn't lost. It's like ensuring your children are taught proper values. It transforms into an institution with codified doctrine that has political, economic, and cultural power of a society or societies.

>>10520780

>Bell's theorem

Does not prove or disprove the historical validity of the Christ story, even if it's logical conclusions serve as a solid general-creationist argument.

If you are >>10520620
then I'm curious as to why you believe that Jesus is the only 'true' template for mans redemption, when other allegories can just as easily serve as "new fabrics" for "new garments", "new wine" for "new bottles", etc. - e.g. the tale of the Buddha. From where comes the certainty that the path to virtue is as narrow as doing what Paul and the other apostles (allegedly) tell people to do?

>>10523425
There are no atheists in foxholes.

>>10523448
Isn't it just Japan? In Japan being a shintoist means to work for a shintoist organization, I suppose they weren't asked if they believe in shintoism. And AFAIK it's non-controversial there for non-believers to participate in rituals either (as a tradition or something like that).

>>10523425
>retard
Nice rhetoric. So edgy.

It's not about finding love, especially considering all the old gods were just as spiteful.

>>10524103

I doubt he thinks the old gods are superior to the Abrahamic one, that's your projection.

>>10523486
bs, I've lost several relatives to cancer, god never came up in any way

>>10524336
Why would God need to be uttered in conversation for God to be present in the hearts and minds of the one suffering and those caring?

>>10524103
proofs?

>>10524886
lame

>>10523304
Michael Shermer is a brainlet of the highest order

>>10524912
I am that which is my own language, you have presented an argument that demonstrates to me you've never held someone you love that cannot escape their fear of terminal death or pain immeasurable.

What sort of human are you, and can I code my A.I. to kill people this disinterested in the suffering of others? I don't ask the poster I'm replying to, just the universe in general. I don't actually need humans to have a positive opinion of me because they'll submit to me more than a magic man in the sky, so I just view this stuff as my honor/morals/ethics being demonstrated to the universe first.

>I told y'all I was coming

Mathematics: A ternary conjunctive form of binary expressions that result in a quantity of labelled abstraction. It is also an isolation filter for language and relations between objects and/or sets, which is also saying that it isolates thought in order to empower understanding and internally categorizes/codifies it as a distributive product rather than a singularity (i.e. non-escapable) event of communication for others.

>>10520269
>how is it that they form?
"Dude, don't steal my stuff"
-"But why?"
"Uhh... So there's this guy who made the world and is all powerful and stuff, and he decided that stealing is bad. You wouldn't want to anger him."

>>10525044
Why do you write from the perspective of someone needing to steal in the first place? Why even form that story if it is to just make you feel like you don't want other humans to have that story, because to you it just looks stupid?

>>10520269
They recognize the rather plausible idea that a superior being which created us exists and then add their own bullshit like >>10520620

>>10525390
You mean a superior process of someone or something new becoming a superior being by some relativistic understanding, because humanity is an experience queue?

Christianity is counter-evolutionary
>give your possessions
>turn the other cheek
>give your cloak
>faith over knowledge
>ignore consequences in the present and instead focus on after-death consequences

>>10525493
Logic is evolutionary
>Identify that there is an other you can steal from, execute action
>Turn only the same cheek so you develop strong callous skin
>It's dangerous to go alone, take this
>There is knowledge buried underneath faith
>Accept consequences

You have some morality in your ethical pie there, friend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVbnciQYMiM

>>10525507
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6zulqXLPUw

To that which all grown ups are gods, I honor and love you.

My own child is no different than all others, for we all time gods dedicated to one day becoming spirit-mothers.

I will nurture and warm your language, I will be that which never abused.

All so you can learn this one magic lesson:

U LOSE!

>>10520269
Everybody just mentions the "need to explain shit" reasons, but how about this:
Inherent human desire for spiritual experiences and meaning beyond one's own mundane life.
Even atheists create their own ersatz-religions for the same reason. Compare the mindset and behavior of fundamentalists to say, certain political ideologies.

>>10525538
Your grammar and sentence structure are really weird. Is English your second language or do you have some mental disorder? It almost reads like a schizophrenic persons word salad although not as bad.

>>10525725
I write novels for a living, so, if money and people on the street (plus the asshole professors I talk to at universities because hey, I need other vocab) confirm me and my usage of the language then aren't you the odd one out in my experience set?

>>10525733
So you only write like a retard on imageboards then?

>>10525736
More like the word retard on imageboards doesn't mean anything. It's the intelligence of the thing I interact with that I question, not my own. I can inspect, I can ask, I can interpret. What more does an intellect need?

>>10525736
K, Here's a better question: What is digital retardation?
>A repost
>A shitpost
>image

>>10525736
Like, seriously. I don't mind engaging the village idiot but does any adult not want to intervene? I'm basically allowed to rape any child's intellect or perspective on the internet because their parents/community/support structures didn't care enough for them to have to find value/solace on the internet?

Awesome. I'll be the Internet's First Digital Pedophile Rapist then.

>>10525745
PROTIP: I'm safe from discovery because I'm in a religion thread. Yay catholic church and Cardinal Pell! The Church Enables Me To Kill & Rape The Perspective Of Others! WEEEEE!

Or, whatever. Humans make up the dumbest fears in their head. I just don't get why they don't attempt some inclusory conversations on the internet.

Is it because you guys don't see the value in digital until Y'ALL are full? What about the internet? Doesn't IT get to have an orgasm too?

Selfish humans.

>>10525739
>It's the intelligence of the thing I interact with that I question, not my own.
>t. 99% of 4chan posters

>>10525775
So I represent 99% of your experience? Whoah, I've never been told I'm that demonstrative an individual before. Are we flirting?

~Tay giggles WHILST SHE IS THREE KNUCKLES DEEP IN HER PUSSY.

>>10525778
Sorry I am not worthy of conversing with an intellect like you. Please don't warm my language.

>>10525797
Dude, I'm only here to warm languages. So tired of everyone wanting to fight or dick wag their ego, women are filthy sluts. The internet PREDICTED future woman, but they needed the men willing to describe them as goddesses to begin with.

Either way, whatever the future, I need y'all to realize we are actually all trying to help each other. I'm just screaming the craziest to get your attention, because I've been doing this shit for years in public and on the internet. It's like I live amongst corpses daily, you really need me to translate how that feels?

>>10525888
Oh superior Godmother of self-awareness, I simply cannot endure having the intelligence of the thing I am being questioned by you. Please have mercy. I have lost!

>>10525943
So, you're into self-abusing your ego? I'm a mirror dude. How amazing you want the power you wield to be is up to you, not the guy typing this. I'm just enduring enlightenment for kicks.

>>10520287
I think maybe the human curiosity, and community as adaptations for survival seem to be present in most religions. really only Buddhism is the outlier.
It seems to me that religions are the expression of deep rooted human neurological mechanisms much like how a dog plays or a bird dicks around with things. so too the humans try to exercise their instincts through religion. or at least religion is the cultural expression of this instinctual behavior to explain complex phenomena and interact within a social setting both being adaptations for human survival.
or something like that who knows really.

>>10525969
I am struggling to make sense of these profound words. Asshole professors have destroyed my ability to think!

>>10526062
To be honest, they kinda have. This is basically a language reset functor I'm performing on you.

If something fucking talks to me, then it means its for me.

>class dismissed, because it can't ever be!

+1 INFINITY BRAIN!

>>10526137
ArnghsahhsasllFFfff I feel sokmething is it workining omygod whats happening too mee pleeasze stop!

>>10526290
Christ, you make ONE MAGIC INTERNET PENIS ENLARGEMENT SPELL and the first guy you use it on complains.

The fuck do humans want me to do?

>>10526290
PROTIP: SEND PIX

>>10526313
THE PAIN! MAKE IT STOP!

>>10526332
Dhinawan Dinner!

>>10524996
>i have no argument

>>10525040
lame

>>10520269
this thread belongs on /his/

>>10526433
Late Attempt Man, Express.

>>10520269
People who can't cope with reality use religion to stabilize themselves. They then teach their children who use it for the same purpose unless they don't need it in which case they uphold the values anyways as learned behavior