/sci/ - Science & Math

>>10518836
Just put in the capsule a collection of STEM 101 books.

>>10518836
>Suppose human civilization collapses and regresses to a stone age level of development.
this is highly improbable, basically everyone beyond kindergarten would have to die
>contructing a time capsule
do you mean what to fill it with? books and some way to teach them to read i guess

>>10518836
you can put most of wikipedia on a keychain on etched nickel sheets. It's highly resistant to heat, water, and radiation. The Arch Mission Foundation sells these things with letters big enough to be visible with a 60x loupe, but the letters can be made much smaller so you could have more articles. You could probably fit all of wikipedia and a bunch of books in analog form on a couple A4 sized sheets. Add some instructions on how to make a simple microscope in relatively big letters on the first sheet, then go into details on how to make more complicated ones.

>>10518836
Even if that was possible, they would not be able to reach the current level of development, as we pretty much dried out any easily accessible source of coal or oil. So unless we somehow leave them with a few hundred thousands nearly indestructible solar panels, they're pretty much screwed.

>>10518886
you don't need fossil fuels to make solar panels

It would probably not be too difficult, but I am not a cruel man.

>>10518896
but you do need the infrastructure that only an industrial society can create, which requires fossil fuels.

>>10518896
Ironically
You actually do.

>>10518836
That is assuming they would have the culture and curiosity needed to advance. Try dropping off your time capsule on a tribe in South America or Africa and see what happens.

Here is an interesting site I stumbled on a few months back though:

http://rebuildingcivilization.com/

>>10518886
>>10518896
>>10518912
>>10518942

It's called 'Olduvai Theory'

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olduvai_theory

Basically, our industrial global civilization has one shot to break the finite fossil fuel energy supply and invent other forms of energy or eventually global civilization will fall and it will never again in future human history every reach the same advanced state of an industrial global civilization. All the easily mined raw resources will have been used up in which future civilizations could have used to rebuild. For example, 100 years ago you could find crude oil sitting on the surface in pools of hydrocarbons, but now we need multi billion dollar offshore rigs to drill 6 miles down in the middle of the ocean for the same stuff.

Technological human civilization has one shot or it's back to the dark ages for humanity until the end of our species. Scary isn't it?

On the upside, if the global industrial civilization does fall, future civilizations wont have the power to destroy the planet and a more simple civilization is much more sustainable. Humans will probably live in a middle-age or ancient Roman level state of technology for next 500,000 years. Until some big natural extinction happens on Earth.

This isn't the end of human history, it's the beginning.

>>10518836
>>10518850
Horizon Zero Dawn got it right, in the event of extinction a sealed time capsule with an AI could help.

>>10518850
>>10518886
>>10519147
Horizon Zero Dawn got it right, in the event of global extinction a sealed time capsule with an AI with seeds and machinery would probably work.

>>10519147
I will add that the dates in that image are outdated now since we discovered how to make shale oil a net energy/money gain with fracking instead of a net loss. However this too is finite and this only extends the peak a few more decades. 2035-2045 is when the fun begins.

>>10518899
Checked kekd and rekt

>>10519147
>>10519166
Solar power and nuclear fusion makes that unlikely. And I am not talking about your typical solar panels, but space solar panels.

>>10519165
The best realistic back up plan is a self sufficient civilization on Mars, a moon of Jupiter or on Antarctica. Realistically, our global civilization will probably end during a sudden thermal nuclear exchange. A self sufficient colony in Antarctica has the best chance to survive. Also the raw resources in Antarctica are untapped. Hide your knowledge and copy of Wikipedia on a mountain in Antarctica. Also in a few thousand years the ice may have completely melted off the continent making habilitaty livable even with lower states of technology.

Image attached is wishful thinking.

>>10519194
>And I am not talking about your typical solar panels, but space solar panels.
>t. brainlet
You really don´t have any clue about the issues with solar power, do you?

Answer these questions:
- How would you transport electrical energy from space into orbit?
- How would you store electrical energy once it reaches orbit? (note: battery technology is limited by the fundamental elements allotted to us by the universe, and can thus not be exponentially improved upon - the modern lithium-ion-battery is already essentially as efficient as one can make such a thing)

Furthermore:
Nuclear fusion requires a magnetic field and temperature: with the materials known to man today, it is not possible to create a magnetic field strong enough to negate the very low temperature (when compared to the sun´s temperature, for example) that any alloy can withstand.

>>10519194
That's assuming we don't get into a global thermal nuclear exchange or WWIII within the next 100 years.

>>10518836
>regresses to a stone age level of development.
You make that sound as if it would be a downgrade of some sort.
Protip: It would be a step forward; true progress; an ascension, an evolution.

>>10519199
>german advisory council on global change
The advisory council in question doesn´t contain any physicists or other people skilled in the art of natural sciences and mathematics, I take it?

>>10519199
We are talking about two distinct type of events here. Yours is probably better suited to answer OP, but in a rush to save the last remnants of civilization the other answer is also a good shot.

>>10519147
>the ((("""""culture"""""))) and "curiosity" needed to ((("""""advance""""")))

>>10519209
I dont need to explain shit to you, Isaac Arthur gave enough explanation on his video on power satellites.

>>10518836
We're already on it. It's called the Memory of Mankind project. They have 3 vaults/wings. One for the definitive stuff with no bias (science, math, energy, etc), one for individual stories (diaries, greentexts, recipes, etc), and one for general pop culture things or something just to let them know who we were as a society.
I'm not sure who makes the distinction of what goes where though. For sure if the pope or dalai lama were in charge certain things would get in the 'without bias' chamber, but the good news is you can pay to submit something to the archives. I for one will be uploading the best of /b/.
They're also dropping off coins around the world (pic related) for future civs to find. They'll need an acute understanding of geography and math patterns to find the cave once it's sealed off. That way not just any caveman hungry for power will find it, even if they have all the clues.
Personally with the way humans are drying up lakes right now, I'm not so sure pinpointing the location in relation to one is the best idea.


>>10518850
This is highly plausible. Imagine a final nuclear war or huge comet or some cataclysmic event that kills billions of people, fucks electronics and telecommunication, and renders once arable land fucked.
Basically everyone beyond kindergarten will be busy figuring out crops again and not really passing down higher maths or how to run a nuclear facility.
In fact something like this probably already happened 12,000 years ago. We've seen plenty of megalithic structures that have no clue who why or how they were built. Some of them buried, some of them hundreds of feet beneath the ocean.
Legend has it the great pyramids/sphinx have catacombs beneath them that once housed all the world's knowledge.

>>10519237
>no bias
>can pay to submit to the archives

>>10519237
I know where my war party will be heading now, thanks

>>10519147
l'mao
from the rebuildingcivilization site

>In terms most Americans will understand better...

>>10519237

>Imagine a final nuclear war or huge comet or some cataclysmic event that kills billions of people, fucks electronics and telecommunication, and renders once arable land fucked.

Here's the thing they don't tell people about a WWIII nuclear exchange. In the event of a nuclear exchange the sudden deployment of 1000s of warheads and detonation of countless megatons is one thing. The fallout from weapons will mostly be lethal dangerously radioactive for just a few months. (Of course cancer will spike). The much greater long term danger to humanity is the sudden destruction of most of the nuclear power plants. Imagine 1000 Fukushimas and Chernobyls spilling their contents out into the atomoshere and oceans all at once. No one to seal, clean up and contain. The entire northern hemisphere could be unhabitable for humans and farming for 10,000s of years. The southern hemisphere will inherite the planet.

>>10518836
>suppose

>>10518836
Without books humans would completely forget what languages we used in about 1000 years from now. So even then they would have no idea what our pictures even meant.

>>10519244
Well you won't be getting in the non bias will you? Unless you have something truelly objective like a calculus theorem. Again, not sure who decides what gets put where tho

>>10519248
Kek

>>10519316
Pictures are the solution.

>>10519297
Frick

>>10518875
>Arch Mission Foundation
this is awesome. gona look into this

>>10519265
Kek, thank you author-anon

>>10518836
Save HTME vids some how.

>>10519147
Ethanol is still a thing anon

>>10519194
We have not figured out fusion energy yet
And the silicon that solar panels are made out requires very large amounts of heat to extract , meaning it needs coal to manufacture.

>>10518836
I'm afraid not. All of the easily accessible resources required for societies to advance from stone age to bronze age (copper/tin mines specifically) have been completely exhausted.

>>10519370
Our trash of today is our mines of tomorrow. It's not like those resources disappeared into space.

>>10519376
>It's not like those resources disappeared into space.
It might as well have if it's turned to dust and blown away by the wind.

Entropy is a bitch.

>>10519370
Couple thousand years with no human maintenance and some earthquakes tho and all these cities will be nice deposits

>>10519210
Tf is going on in Montana, ND, and Colorado/Wyoming

>>10519363
And where are you going to run it in 10,000 years? That's the point of the theory. Sure you can recycle and melt down old metal scrap. You can improvise make shift engines and motors, but then your civilization is just living off the remains and trash of the dead civilization. I can easily imagine a post global civilization running off the massive landfills that our civilization left behind but eventually that will also run out. It will never surpass our civilization in terms of global connectivity and the infrastructure and ability to abstract raw materials. Within a few 100 or 1000 years this resurgent industrial civilization will also collapse due to lack of energy and raw materials.

Of course it is possible that a smaller resurgent civilization could gain just enough energy, recycled materials, have a energy seeking culture, and knowledge to start wind farming or solar energy farming, but I'm not sure that enough to break the downward spiral. They would have to pretty much invent fusion power to really break the downward energy trend.

History shows us some interesting conclusions... After the collapse of Rome why didn't the people in the centuries after just rebuild the Colosseum? Besides forgetting how to make concrete, for almost 2000 years people were just content on just steeling the brick and stone for their houses from it than rebuilding.

A future civilization might be apt at stealing and repurposing our trash and cargo containers into houses and tools, but they might not share the same goals and values as our current civilization.

>>10519427
>but then your civilization is just living off the remains and trash of the dead civilization.
Seems like and acceptable stage of development ,
Build up industry that way until you can extract minerals yourself.

>>10519435
It still would never be at the same scale and complexity as our current global spanning culture and system. I wonder if such a resurgent civilization had enough time to rediscover space flight and planetary colonization. The chances seem slim.

>>10518836
Don't forget the demographics of the future world will be different. The majority of humanity by 2100 will be African. If a nuke war happens, all of North America, Europe and Asia will be wiped out. Africans and Brazilians are the future of mankind.

>>10519297
Mandatory film.

tl;dr you go full elmer tier and build progressively better radios, vaccum tubes and magnetrons bringing you up to the 1960s. High-end silicon and gold transistors require precise machinery. You can rebuild the entire US industrial complex c.1920 with just steel and coal, and America c.1950 with steel, coal and copper.

This is not a difficult problem it's just a >>>/diy/ problem.

>>10519427
> your civilization is just living off the remains and trash
Civilization lives off of old white trash now.

>>10519498
I don't understand why so many people who obviously never read bother with this site.

>>10519483
Good movie. The book is even more scary. In the book they use salted and tungsten warheads.

Russia's new supposed nuclear torpedoe is supposed to be 100mt as written on one of the diagrams. That's Tsar levels of destruction. If they salted those it would make the entire area uninhabitable for deacdes or centuries.

Here's the 50mt tsar test.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EHRLEMTsLyA

If the new weapon is built or has been built, it will be twice the mt!

Humans were never meant to have such power.

>>10519505

you can make simple microwave heaters and radios with basic raw materials

>>10519507
That kind of news is what makes me be hurry for space colonization.

>>10519147

One of the largest railroads in the US was powered entirely by hydroelectricity. Building an industrial base without petrolchemicals is harder than doing it with them, but is more than plausible. Even without electric trains, wood (aka, biomass) or compressed air trains would be used. Only problem is generating enough heat to smelt metal but this can also be done using hydro power or biomass in a pressure chamber.

These technologies exist and are practically implementable, the only reason they aren't is because FFs are cheaper.

>>10519507

>>10518912
>>10518942
prove that solar cells can't be made without fossil fuels

>>10519523

a PV is just a large transistor. It's primary elements are silicon and gold, not petrolchemical plastics.

>>10519507
>In the book they use salted and tungsten warheads.
why would that make it worse?

>>10518836
No. Modern man has exploited the low hanging fruit. Good luck trying to get oil when the only reserves left are at the bottom of the ocean and require space age materials to get to.
If civilization collapses without a self sufficient offworld colony then we're proper fucked.

>>10519554
Or a self sufficient Industrialized breakaway colony on some remote island in the south Pacific.

>>10519147
This scares the transhumanist.

>>10519645
Like in fallout?

>>10519219
In other words: you are a moron. Thanks for clearing that up.

>>10519728
Why dont you check that video instead of arguing over the internet?

>>10519523
>>10519526
It's not needed as a componentof the solar panel itself, it's needed as energy source and component of all the stuff you need to make it. Or do you think you can craft integrated circuitry by hand?

>>10519415
That's where all of America's silo based missiles are located

>>10519523
>prove the you can't construct a space shuttle without wood

>>10518875
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5c3bcbd5e17ba3597ea81282/t/5c785e9608522990f0a2b5da/1551392456552/Overview+of+the+Lunar+Library.pdf
>read their document
>one of the first CDs is solely dedicated to Israeli history
>the only 2 languages on the center of the first slide are Hebrew and English
Every. Time.

>>10519454
>Africans and Brazilians are the future of mankind.
Brazil's fertility rate is 1.8. The only places on earth where fertility is above replacement level is sub saharan africa, the middle east and india.

>>10519415
Government bunkers or backup locations

>>10520153
it probably takes massive quantities of wood to build something like that when the entire supply chain is factored

anyone who thinks "renewables" and "electrics" are even remotely free from fossil fuel use is naive.

t. samefag

>>10520248
Sounds like a coming 'dark' age.

>Can you think of a way of contructing a time capsule that would allow future cavemen who find it to advance to our technological lecel as rapidly as possible?
Why would you want this? If human civilization collapses, that means it's unsustainable and will keep collapsing no matter how many times you try. Besides people were much happier in pre-industrial tribal-gatherer societies

Once you realize life can't be won, there's is no use playing it. Life wasn't meant to happen. Let it end already. Put bomb in time capsule.

>>10520313
Nah. China's growth will increase at the whim of their government. Only places where the elite is western european are so dogmatic in their moralism and so profundly bound to feminism and civil rights that they would literally need a bloody civil war to change this and revert the population decline.

Americans and europeans just underestimate how western most places like Latin America are in terms of ethics, because most latin america's elites are europeans and push the same politics you do. Probably why you'd think Brazil's fertility is high just because it is poorer or browner than the US. Brazil's fertility rate is slightly lower than Argentina's.

>>10520366
Doesn't matter. The whole world will look like a mix of Afganistan, Honduras, and Nigeria within 200 years. You want to know the sad part? Humanity will be so backwards in 1000 years they wouldn't give a shit about your history and knowledge or care to understand it.

After Islam takes over Europe in the next 50 years your going to see the outright destruction and burning of all European art, music, knowledge and culture. That is, if they aren't radtioactive craters by then.

Western Civilization will end up burned to the ground and erased just like the Library of Alexandria. The books of feminism and Issac Newton will both be used as toliet paper.

>>10518836
Likely, the hunter-gatherers that still exist today are most likely to survive, as they depend least on modern technology. I don't really see how or why they or their descendants would suddenly develop an interest in science all of a sudden.
>>10518875
>assuming people would still know how to read whatever language it was written in
>assuming someone doesn't use it as a tool or makes jewelry out of it

>>10520313
Birth rates fall as standard of living increases
You can see this in African countries that improve economically seeing their birth rates lower in response.

>>10519199
>The best realistic back up plan is a self sufficient civilization on Mars, a moon of Jupiter or on Antarctica.
It would have been quicker to say there are no realistic backup plans.

>>10520215
It's because Jews have the highest IQ of humanity so they are the most likely group of people that would rebuild humanity in the case of an apocalypse.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jewish_intelligence

>>10521208
Elon musk honestly has the right intentions to try and make a Mars base, but I think it will take at least 100 years to make it self sufficient. It's going to be hard to make it self sufficient before the mid century chaos begins. Better to try at least than not at all. I would still try to make isolated self sufficient high technology industrialized colonies somewhere isolated on the planet and hope they aren't nuke targets or in the path of fallout. Just in case.

>>10521198
Except that's not happening in Africa according to UN reports.

https://www.economist.com/middle-east-and-africa/2018/09/22/africas-high-birth-rate-is-keeping-the-continent-poor

>>10520461
>Honduras
Sincerely, Amerindians replacing all european population from the Americas would benefit humanity against this process.

>>10521857
Chinese civilization will probably survive because they have colonies in nearly every country and island on the planet. The mainland might be radioactive but they will rebuild Chinese civilization in Australia or Africa.

>>10521212
>so they are the most likely group of people that would rebuild humanity in the case of an apocalypse.
There are so many other factors like geographic location giving access to food/water etc

>>10519498
The coal would be gone in this scenario.