/sci/ - Science & Math

>muh authoritarian police state that will totally never become corrupt when given too much power

Just solve the problem the way America does with everything else. Sue the fucks. Kids get sick because some antivaccer pushed that shit on their kids? Sue em. Sue the fuck out of them for every penny they have until they're living on the streets.

>>10442428
This seems good. You could even get a class action going thanks to kids in the school being "exposed".

>>10442420
Who is "we"?
Also certified fresh b8 thread.

>>10442428
Just solve the problem the way nature does with everything else. Let natural selection kill off the anti-vaxxers.

>>10442449
The problem with that is anti-vaxxers reduce herd immunity, causing harm to others. Some people can't get vaccines due to rare allergic conditions, immune system disorders, or simply being too young. And vaccines are not perfect; in a small percentage of people they just don't work for whatever reason. Those people rely on everyone else being vaccinated to stifle disease transmission. Why should someone's newborn be at risk of getting measles because someone else won't vaccinate their kids?

>>10442420
>le ASAPscience (sodomite) maxresdefault.jpg
>Literally, with anti-vaxxers, just send armed vaccination squads, separate them from their children and re-educate them in a vaccinology course.

>>10442449
This would work if there weren't people/children with compromised immune systems.
And with, say measles, it isn't enough to just avoid anti-vaxshits in space. You'd have to also know where they are in time.

>>10442635
>Why should someone's newborn be at risk of getting measles because someone else won't vaccinate their kids?
It is eugenic and people with shit immune systems deserve to die in infancy, otherwise they will grow up and procreate and spread this onto their children. On a massive scale, this hurts the human race.

>>10442646
>It is eugenic and people with shit immune systems deserve to die in infancy
That would still leave out cancer patients, burn victims, and certain viral infections.
It is easier and more fair to just cull the damn antivaxxers as their determined stupidity hurts the human race on nation level scales.

>>10442420
except vaccines do have an associated mortality risk, governments do know it, governments simply calculate the mortality risks of the vaccines against the potential mortality of the epidemic it's trying to prevent. Anti-vaxxers have a point, if 95% of the people are vaccinated and you aren't, you're probably at higher risk of mortality by taking the vaccine than not.

>>10442641
>you're not a real 4chan user if you're not a fucking retard

>>10442648
>It is easier and more fair to just cull the damn antivaxxers as their determined stupidity hurts the human race on nation level scales.
Anti-antivaxxers are equally stupid.
It's completely black and white to either side.

>>10442420
what for? are you a communist or something?

>>10442658
>Anti-vaxxers have a point, if 95% of the people are vaccinated and you aren't, you're probably at higher risk of mortality by taking the vaccine than not.
They aren't playing a careful numbers game because if they did it would be mostly targeted at certain vaccines that have higher potential mortality instead of all of them. And I doubt they'd trust the numbers anyway.

>>10442679
>Anti-antivaxxers are equally stupid.
No, they are not. There is no "equal sides" to this conversation. This is coddling advanced stupidity that affects more than just these idiots.
The very foundations on which the "movement" started no longer exist and its kept alive purely out of illogic.

>>10442646
>Argument for eugenics.
Yeah, why do we give people antibiotics anyway?

>>10442658
>Anti-vaxxers have a point, if 95% of the people are vaccinated and you aren't, you're probably at higher risk of mortality by taking the vaccine than not.
If they understood that they would quietly go about their unvaccinated lives, rather than encourage others to stop getting vaccinations.

>>10442689
The argument is still alive because, while anti-vaxxers are wrong about vaccines, anti-anti-vaxxers need to work on message delivery.
Seriously, even though, “Vaccines work, you’re wrong for not getting them for your kids.” Is a factually true statement, it makes people want to dig in their heels because it’s condescending.
The goal for arguing is to make the other person believe they naturally reached the same conclusion as you wanted. Not to beat them over the head.

>>10442699
>Is a factually true statement, it makes people want to dig in their heels because it’s condescending.
Why the hand holding? They literally endanger themselves, their children, and entire segments of the population by turning their prideful stupidity into disease vectors.
They should be beat over the head by whatever means are necessary - laws, fines, lawsuits- you name it. You should not be rewarded or lavished with attention because you chose to do some willfully stupid on purpose. This isn't some innocent or harmless personal superstition. Enough of these idiots exist at one time and diseases that have killed millions over human history come back. For no reason over than a small segment of the population would not only like to be a burden but a danger to everyone else.

>implying vaccines even actually do anything

Brazil did it first.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine_Revolt

>>10442420
Oof been a while since I've seen an authoritarian. How you been boot licker, did your mommy Dom give you your daily beatings already?

>>10442420
>Literally, with anti-vaxxers, just send armed vaccination squads

>SCIENCE REQUIRES FORCE TO BE ACCEPTED BY PEER REVIEW!!!

you are literally speaking like a CEO.

not a scientist.

>>10442420
I do not care about anti-vaxxers.
My kids are vaccinated.
Let the anti-vaxxer parents lose their kids to some easily prevented disease.

>>10443009

But they won't tho because, judging from the facebook groups, most anti-vaxxrs are privileged white people whose homeschooled kids are never gonna come in contact with infectious diseases anyway and on the offchance they do they have good healthcare to cover em.

>>10443009
You realize a vaccine is only as effective as it is because we were able to pindown the exact way to inoculate for a strain. Just because your kids are vaccinated doesn't stop a mutation or variant of the disease to spread. All it takes is one virus or bacterium to be in the right place and develop the right vector to spread.

>>10443049

Again, so why do I care about an anti-vaxxers kids?
Mine are vaccinated.

>>10443072
>doesn't stop a mutation or variant of the disease to spread.

Straw man argument. A muted strain would be equally hazardous to vaccinated and un-vaccinated kids.
If someone does not want to vaccinated their kids then let them.

>>10442420
I know you think that being pro vaccine makes you look smart; but it doesn't. It makes you look like a subordinate "LE EPIC SCIENCE" redditor. Although fringe groups promote pseudoscientific paranoia about vaccination, most honest researchers will admit that vaccines have been very minimally studied. The idea that some vaccines are causing serious harm is at least plausible and should be studied rigorously. Labeling dissenters has "anti-vaxxers" and completely dismissing their viewpoints regardless of supporting evidence, demonstrates a deep level of immaturity about medicine and science in general.

>>10443079
Because vaccines don't provide 100% immunity you moron. Diseases are destroyed via herd immunity, not individual immunity.

>>10443079

I don't care either. I'm just stating that they're not gonna die.

>>10443096

>I know you think that being pro vaccine makes you look smart; but it doesn't. It makes you look like a subordinate "LE EPIC SCIENCE" redditor.
>implying the general public cares about what anti-vaxxers think.

>>10443095
Yes but now you have an ineffective vaccine, more people susceptible to the disease, and larger death count depending on the disease; all due to someone not wanting to vaccine their kids, most of the time for ignorant reasons.

>he watches minutescience/asapscience
How did you not stop after the Simpsons paradox twoparter? I thought "I love science!"fags believed in evidence.

>>10442635
So I should Inject substance X because Sally is a weak bitch and the substance barely works?


Fuck that. I never get the flu shot and I'm fine

>>10443009
He's advising in hindsight.the coward.
Mathematically speaking his first instinct was right.

>>10442420
threadly reminder that there are no studies on the effects of injecting aluminium into newborns (even if it is at the microgram level). Inflammasome and antigen inflation are only known to occur in adults, and there are no studies studies of the effects of any vaccines on newborn infants, much less longitudinal studies on the effects of the modern vaccine schedule.
If anyone could find a study that shows aluminum in an infant bloodstream has no long term affects, please let me know.

>>10443117
>for ignorant reasons.

There is NOTHING wrong with deciding NOT to embrace every technological advancement.

If a parent wants to raise their kids on a farm drinking UNPASTEURIZED whole milk (doctors cry at the idea of subjecting children to this EVIL milk), they should be able to.

Unless they are actively harming their children or pimping them out, I do NOT care how someone else raises their kids.

I am willing to accept the very small risk of my vaccinated kids getting ill from un-vaccinated kids.

We should just allow businesses to ask for proof of vaccination before allowing anyone in. No doubt this will encourage the creation of "anti-vaxxers-friendly businesses" and when everyone who frequents this places starts getting smallpox they'll take the fucking hint. Or just die. Either way, everyone else wins.

>>10442420
>guise know what we should do when people don't believe in science? FORCE them to with the POLICE!!
omg yass this is why america needs communism baka

>>10443148
oh fuck what a new word filter

>>10442661
>Dishonoring 4chan's time honored traditions of total retardation

>>10443154
>new
the only thing that's new is you.

right wing life squads when?

>>10442420
because research into conspiracy beliefs shows they need to decide they were wrong and anyone trying to prove them wrong falls on deaf ears

>>10442420
I'm 19 rn and no vaccines bc we were poor and no one was around to take me for free stuff. I once got worried bc a friend's friend was hit with polio when we were elememtary. he got no vaccines too. What could be worst?

>>10442420
the left:
>guns are bad
also the left:
>we're gonna vaccinate your kids at gunpoint

>>10442424
>Muh free thinking dumbasses totally won't undermine society

>>10445120
This, but I ironically.

>>10445120
This, but unironically.

>>10442661

>>10442420
This is obviously bait you morons, no one is actually this stupid

>>10442420
>Why don't we just re-educate pseudoscience pushers?

Because you would end up being reeducated.

>>10442646
Do you own a katana?

>>10443009
But the people who physically can't get vaccinated are put at risk because of them

>>10442699
>you’re wrong for not getting them for your kids.” Is a factually true statement
No it isn't. And 'vaccines work' doesn't even imply getting them for your kids is better for your kid's health.

>>10443049
So why are you so butthurt they're making correct decisions?

>>10442420
why is this in /sci/
go to /pol/

I'm convinced anti-vaxxers are either sadistic trolls or retards. Either way the entire situation is absolutely nonsensical.

I'd be interested in how they would react if they got bitten by a poisonous snake.

>>10443142
Do you even know what smallpox is?

>>10443096
blessed post

>person A gets vaccinated against a disease
>person B is not vaccinated, gets that disease
>person A gets infected by person B
what was the point of the vaccine?

>>10447588
Imagine two people with access to nuclear codes. One of them wearing a bulletproof vest, the other not. Both get shot,
> A does not die, because he is wearing the vest
> B dies and gets his codes stolen
> With the codes, A's city is nuked and A dies with everybody else because bulletproof vests are no longer effective against nukes

>anti vaxxers are fucking retarded

Yes absolutely, however

>Give the government the precedent to inject whatever they want at gunpoint

Haha

Fuck

No

>>10443132

>>10447626
...So what was the point of person A wearing the vest if it didnt save him from the blast?

>>10447588
Because in reality there are non responders to vaccines, say that you vaccinate 100 but only 95 actually became immune, that's what all the herd immunity stuff is all about.

>>10442420
Film yourself getting 1000 vaccines in one day. That will prove they're safe.

>>10447588
Anti-vaxxers can spread diseases to some risk populations like:
-Newborns
-Immunocompromised people (patients with AIDS, recurrent infections, autoimmune disease, cancer or patients that had organ transplants).
-People that weren't vaccinated because disease was eradicated in their country.
Anti-vaxxers work as a reservoir of diseases where pathogens, specially virus, can change (mutation) and become infectious and affect all people, including vaccinated ones.

>>10448679
>having AIDS

>undesirables, third worlds and newborns aka people that will suffer anyway, will die
Based anti vaxxers.

Le Freedumbs

https://www.theyucatantimes.com/2015/02/while-the-u-s-faces-the-largest-measles-outbreak-in-recent-history-mexico-has-had-not-a-single-case-since-1996/

>>10448679
>affect all people, including vaccinated ones
loling@u irl

>>10442420
because vaccines cause sterilization, don't you want to reduce the population. those damned soccer moms done figured it all out

>>10443135
>Mathematically speaking his first instinct was right.
Nigga you retarded he was speaking in the 1700s

>>10448679
Eugenic.
I don't see a problem.

>>10443096
What about the vaccines could be causing the harm? The science of an attenuated virus is sound, it’s just strange to me that the liberal reddit crowd hates big Corp capitalism and thinks those corps chase the dollar at the expense of the little people.

But vax manufacturers use only the purest angel tears materials, unlike every other cost and corner cutting company

>>10445092
you autistic?

There is a problem with this solution: america doesn't go bankrupt

>>10451061
aluminum, foreign genetic material (including aborted animals fetuses which garner so much attention), mercury, other heavy metals, (((adjuvants))), more heavy metals, etc.
honestly I wish we could just inoculate kids the way Frank-o used to do it.

>>10442420
>obligatory opinions

wew

>>10442420
>Implying vaccines arent the actual "Pseudo-Science"

>>10442718
In the end, it is not about being right, but about achieving the higher goal.
If that means talking to idiots like they aren't then by all means

>>10445092
>What could be worst?
well I think you could still get polio, get paralyzed and have to live in an iron lung for the rest of your miserable days. might wanna get that taken care of, you probably qualify for medicaid if in the US and other free healthcare if elsewhere