/sci/ - Science & Math

I just know I'm going to teach my children to be able to drop out as soon as they can and get a GED, then attend community college.

Public education in my country is absolutely terrible, I'd go so far as to say that I have learned virtually nothing from it.

>>10415970
Smart people don't want to be around other people's screaming children all day long. Public education will always be a farce. If you're intelligent, you should be able to afford homeschooling or private school.

>>10415970
>Was anyone else's early schooling a joke?
Yes, a year of counting, 3 years of addition/subtraction, 3 years of multiplication/division, and a year of "pre-algebra". The entirety of the primary education curriculum is feet dragging. And with common core, it's now 4 years each of arithmetic.

>>10416489
Counting and basic arithmetic (as well as reading/writing) should be taught by the parents way before elementary school begins.

If people cared about children's education, it would look like this

>>10416061
>If you're intelligent, you should be able to afford homeschooling or private school.
So only kids with intelligent parents deserve a good education?

And the smart people don't have to be in the classroom, they can be sculpting the class schedules more.

>>10415970
I used to say: the last thing I learned in school was how to read.
After that I was largely autodidactic. For everything you don't need math for I was always able to stay ahead of coursework easily.

No mine was the opposite. I started out going to a school for the gifted, then I started getting lazy in high school. I thought it was too easy so I didn't apply myself. I received praise from my teachers but was criticized for being lazy (which I was). Come end of high school, I couldn't figure out what I wanted to do with myself, so I ended up in community college for two years. Then I bounced around between things, going to small private classes, and finally majored in design (at a school that's considered top 10 for design). Now I'm a veterinary technician. Design is fundamentally deception, and I don't particularly like thinking of myself as being a liar for a living. Not to mention you have to bust your ass literally 24/7 to be a designer who is worth his salt. Meanwhile, vet tech work is comparatively easy and the pay is good enough for me.

>>10416762
Absolutely and indisputably based

>>10415975
Can any anons tell me if this is retarded advice?

Almost every class was a fake class with mandatory attendance. I dropped out in middle-school.

>>10417608
It is because you learn how to study in high-school as well as socialize. AP classes can show you how to do complicated things and manage your time.

I dropped out way before that though.

>>10417336
>vet tech
>$33,400 per year
how are you even supposed to support a girlfriend on that salary. My family is poor so being poor really really scares me and I'm shooting for 200k starting.

>>10417602
He's forgetting a lot of students have an average IQ, and some have an even lower one leading them to struggle with a GED test....

>>10417681
Girlfriend?

>>10417693
live-in trap, whatever.

>>10417681
>200k starting
The only field I'm aware of that is likely to afford that is medicine, like say, a plastic surgeon, or law with an elite pedigree, such as Harvard law.

Such a thing is possible in tech but you probably vastly underestimate how competitive it is.

>>10415970
I totally agree with you on pretty much everything. I think the issue stems from most people who teach don't teach because of the love of their subject, it's mostly dumb thots who like to proclaim "I love working with children" but also want an easy career path.

>>10415975
This is retarded. You should encourage your children to figure out the flaws of schooling with your aid and allow them to dismantle the school system and learn things their own way.

>>10415970
>>10415970
My disdain for female authority figures started with my incredibly condescending preschool teacher.

>>10416762
I doubt many American adults could master these skills.

From an economic perspective I don't see why every truck driver and retail manager would need to have advanced mathematical knowledge.

Nor would you be able to produce teachers skilled in these fields for the meager wages offered today.

Basically, this is an impractical joke

>>10417738
Don't take it personal, children are always little smart-asses that play dumb sometimes and it's hard to tell sometimes if they are actually stupid or just "being" stupid if that makes sense. Regardless your teacher sounds pathetic for being condescending towards preschoolers, but don't take it personal, not all female authority is bad.

>>10417752
I want a sexy fem-dom mommy to step on me

>>10417751
K, let all aspiring cashiers and truckers fuck off.

>>10418023
I want a sexy fem dom mommy to give me 2 children and be my wife, and give me sex every monday and friday night.

>>10417686
>>10417751
>>10416762
>not getting the joke
This list is totally unobtainable. The average Caucasian IQ is ~100. Expecting high school thots and jocks to do this is laughable. This would be fitting for maybe 5% of the population.
>inb4 but anon dumb people dont matter
Yes they do necause they perform necessary societal functions.

>>10417737
>This is retarded. You should encourage your children to figure out the flaws of schooling with your aid and allow them to dismantle the school system and learn things their own way.

>Go to highschool until 16, smash tests and girls' hearts while there
>join reserves/part-time job/self study
>ace GED the day you turn 18
>Immediately go to some college for an associates and the transfer to prestigious university to do the last 2 years for a bachelors.

bonus points if you can buy and rent out a house/flat while going to college/uni.

>>10418027
See >>10418050

>>10418035
I want a sexy fem-dommy mommy to hold while I sleep.

>>10418055
You absolute retard EVEN IF ONLY THE TOP 5% OF THE POPULATION COULD DO THIS WE'D HAVE A MORE CAPABLE AND COMPETENT 5% AS OPPOSED TO NOT HAVING ONE.

l-love you

>>10418054
>I'll just drop and get a GED before attending a no name college
>from here, ill go to a prestigious university
The lies people tell themselves, I swear

>>10418075
I-is this not possible?

>>10418023
Hella fuckin based

>school is for education
Yikes

>>10418084
Not really, practically speaking. The fact is that most people stay within their range determined after high school. There are plenty of exceptions, but dont bank on it. The data is clear with regards to grad school too: most of the people who enter an elite graduate program came from an elite university beforehand.

People can jump strata but it doesnt happen often enough to justify formulating a serious strategy around it. Your best bet is to get into the best school your can right out of high school and go from there.

>>10418065
right-on fren

>>10418117
what is it for then?

>>10418023
>>10418035
>>10418065
>>10418114
>>10418158

>>10418151

>>10418236
Okay?

>>10418151
Why would someone go the full four years at an expensive uni when they can spend the first half of that time at a cheap college?

>>10417751
>everyone has to be exactly the same.

Fuck off commie. Students should be free to bow out at any grade level and employers can set minimums for hiring.

>>10415970
I got lucky enough to go to a HS that placed a heavy emphasis on academics since it was the only thing we could boast about (small Texas town surrounded by large towns that shat on us in sports, economy, and everything else). School was heavily authoritarian and conservative but it allowed the teachers to take their jobs seriously.
Even then it was pretty banal, I dicked around and partied/played basketball the whole time and still made straight A's, was never challenged. Also, schools like that will let students slip through the cracks if they don't fit their mold of model student. Either you take honors, pre-ap, and college credit classes or they don't give a shit about you and just give you the bare minimum necessary to pass whatever bullshit state competency tests that were given. Saw plenty of intelligent kids never given the attention they deserved.
Still, I'm glad I went to that sort of school in the end, once I got to college I met kids from the "powerhouse" academic schools I was appalled by the pressure that was placed on them. A couple of my buds went to a school in Texas located in the same town as NASA out in that was known for producing ivy league students, national merit scholars, and regular 2100+ SAT scores (thanks to their version of cram schools which guaranteed a 300 increase from baseline pre-sat scores).

The culture there was fucking oppressive, kids couldn't even enjoy their childhood because they were too busy fighting off anxiety about maintaining their 5.0 gpa. According to my sources people would scoff at you if you made anything less than a 2000 SAT score. Your SAT score became the gossip of the school, fuck that pressure.

>>10415970
it's unfortunate but it can't be helped. Make sure to teach your kids right or your sacrifice will be for nothing

>>10417608
Yes because HS is how you learn to socialize and it grown in to a better human being. I would only consider the dropout/GED route if you live in an area where the school is absolute shit and there isn't even much of an option to get a good AP/Dual credit education.
Even the I know plenty of people that went to schools that were shit academically and are getting masters/PHDs. They also aren't autistic fucks because they learned how to talk to people.

>>10415970
I went to a shitty Catholic school for elementary school, and was indoctrinated into being a christcuck.

>>10417336
You are literally my friend except his lack of ambition led to him bombing out of college multiple times despite his Harvard educated parents affording him every opportunity to turn it around.
Seriously, the father dragged himself from a trailer park to Harvard and was a lawyer on a high profile Mike Tyson case and in his prime brokered oil deals for the US. Somehow he shat out a genius with no ambition.

>>10418054
>>10418084
The better school will expect you to know a lot of things that you didn't actually learn while getting that associate's degree.
If you're lucky, they'll do the right thing and not let the credit transfer, making you retake the classes.
If not, they'll let you into some of the higher classes, and you'll find out mid-semester that you need a lot of things that the community college instructors skimped on. Then you get to be one of the poor bastards trying to learn trigonometry or complex numbers two-thirds of the way through a linear algebra or ODE class. That's assuming you were a -good- student at the local place and genuinely learned most of what they tried to teach you. In reality, the students that try to do what you're talking about usually have to be re-taught how to work with fractions, and fall apart if they have to read or write more than a couple of sentences in an exercise.

>>10417681
Frankly desu, you should shoot for something like Nursing and then either work your way in to nurse anesthesiology or continue on to your MD and work part time as a nurse during that period. It's tough to start at 200k anywhere.

You'll start at 50k, max around 90-100k with a bachelors after 5-7 years (at a reputable hospital) and can continue up to 120-250k after an advanced practice degree. It's rational, realistic, and reliable.
If you go for your doctorate you'll have enough money to support yourself while working part time as a nurse and any girl will slob on your knob if she knows you're in med school anyway. My buddy went for his pre-med, switched to nursing, and then went back for med and is about to start residency at the age of 29 so it's attainable.
Also, you might discover while nursing that being a doctor isn't worth the money if you can't handle the more emotional aspects

>>10418073
The people who are that competent will figure it all out in college anyway and become masters of their profession by the time they obtain their phd.

>>10418151
It's really more about how prestigious the undergrad program is at that specific college, certain average colleges may have very respected chemistry programs for example which when coupled with top grades and a great resume can lead to you making it in to top universities.

>>10418273
Not sure to the veracity of this converstaion, but when I was working full time and paying for my first two years of community college a person who had recently retired from his position from Harvard admissions struck up a conversation with me about my grades while I was scanning his groceries.
He told me based off my SAT scores and 4.0 undergrad I could easily get in to Harvard since so many first years wash out and they need students to fill the holes left by them.

>>10418162
Daycare and socialization

>>10418348
I'm so fucking sorry anon

>>10418375
Fuck This is a good point... But I guess it could save the rare genius born with shit parents... maybe.

>>10418372
Nurse to MD is an interesting route I've never heard of. Thanks for the perspective.

>>10418456
this

>>10418348
Don't worry, it was better than public elementary school

>>10418372
Also I don't think I'll have problems with the emotional aspects because I am unlucky/lucky enough to only have dampened emotions. I can't feel very much; it's so sad but I can't comprehend it.

Two of my cousins are in med school so that's what I'm shooting for.

>>10418348
What are you talking about? There is a plethora of backgrounds that go to Catholics schools from Agnostics to Zoroastrians.

>>10418533
Why, that he didn't have mandatory classes on transgenderism and counter-capitalism like in modern public schools?

>>10418568
No, because he was taught a kike on a stick was his God, probably pushed to kiss Jewish was, and lied to about the reality of life after death. Also fuck your false dichotomy, fren.

>>10417681
>how are you even supposed to support a girlfriend on that salary
>support a girlfriend on that salary
>support a girlfriend
>support a girl

>>10418606
>taught a kike on a stick was his God
And?
>probably pushed to kiss Jewish was
English motherfucker
>and lied to about the reality of life after death
To legally assert that it was a lie, you have to prove that it was false. Proof plz :^)

>>10415970
Honestly, I remember we wasted tons of time on do-nothing classes in primary through high school.

In primary and middle school, for example, we had mandatory "international language" classes. We had the choice to learn Portuguese, Spanish, Cantonese, or Mandarin. In practice, these were classes where we would spend 2 hours doing word searches while the teacher did nothing. No one that went to those classes ever learned another language. Our "music" class was just singing, as a choir, every class. I got through it by lipsyncing because I can't sing for shit and I don't know how the other kids knew how to sing because I don't recall the teachers having ever instructed us formally on how to do it. All the kids that learned to play an instrument always did so because their parents got a tutor and forced them to join an extracurricular program (band) but band itself did not teach you how to play so if you wanted to learn to play an instrument, though shit, you're going to learn on your own dime. Of course, my parents didn't give a shit about this so they didn't make me learn anything. We did learn to play the recorder in grade 6, but that's a shitty instrument that sounds like ass. And we didn't even learn it in music class, we learned it in "home room".

High school was a little more serious but there were still shitty mandatory timewasting classes like civics (learning about how oppressed wymyn and blacks are and whitey is bad), drama (just get up in front of class and act like a goof - it's "improv" - you get a B for just showing up and an A if the teacher thinks you're handsome). For grades 9-10 we had a "science" class only where we learned both biology and chemistry with some "physics" thrown in, which was only circuits, which was useless because we weren't taught mechanics or even electromagnetism. In grades 11-12, the sciences and maths were split into their own separate courses - bio, chem, physics, calculus, functions, and statistics.

Part 1.

>>10418761
Part 2:

From grade 11, pretty much everything was taught from the beginning in the sciences because all we did from 9-10 was learn the structure of the atom, some nomenclature (for ionic compounds ONLY) , the structure of the cell, cell division, and types of cells. It was literally shit that you could learn in a month.

In conclusion though, the only subjects that had any actual content were the sciences, math, and English. Everything else was literally filler and a waste of time. But the core subjects I mentioned were not taught in a competent manner and if the time-wasting classes did not exist, there would have been more time to cover the material and prepare students for university.

>>10416762
>Having a grade/age segregation system.
While more rigorous, that is still essentially the Prussian schooling method. You will still end up with mostly brainlets.
What you really want is a a small Socratically run class of various ages.

>>10417336
>Design is fundamentally deception, and I don't particularly like thinking of myself as being a liar for a living.
Are you me? I was on course for a career in design as well but came to an ethical crossroads and decided against it.

>>10418456
Don't forget indoctrination!

>>10415970
Fuck common system. Get your own information channels. Fuck diploma, learn for knowledge. Learn from masters.

There is really fucked up education and rigidity of institution as state will make move that will be outdated at being made.

I believe the problem is twofold: there are no incentives to become a teacher, and our children's educators are graduating from diploma-mills that only care about money. In countries like Germany or Finland, teachers are respected and well-paid, and that pays off in the quality of their elementary education.
>>10418348
I went to one as well, something I always found odd since my mom is an agnostic humanist and my dad a reddit-tier atheist. Eventually, I realized that it was better than going to some chav-infested public school (we couldn't afford private back then, and many private schools here suck anyway). Don't be ashamed of your past anon.

6 year old kid has no mental problems with stuff that school is giving at 9, if handled well.

>>10418348
Catholic schools are better than public.

>>10419170
Yes, because the illusion of skydaddy is going to help you much in life.

>>10418686
>and?
Weeeeewwwww you really got me. Hurr durr an OMNIPOTENT God sent his ONLY SON, which is also him, to get fucking nailed on two planks of wood to death because some dumb bitch ate an apple a million years ago. Which the logical outcome of is to send every human to an eternal torture chamber after they die. But don't worry, God killing his son (But not really lol) which is also himself will magically make whoever believes in this bullshit not go to hell, which totally exists, and get to spend eternity groveling at God's feet in heaven, which also totally exists.
>English motherfucker
Phoneposting you nigger
>to legally assert that it was a lie, you have to prove that it was false. Proof plz :^)

at this point I'm 100% sure this is bait, because nobody can be this genuinely retarded.

TL;DR To legally (wtf retard state do you live in) assert that it isn't a lie, you have to prove that it is true. Proof plz, fuck (you)

>>10418655
If ur a qt3.14 grill pls be my self-sufficient femmy-dommy mommy gf and take long walks with (and on) me.

>>10418568
christianity is counter-capitalism

>>10419175
>>10419477
You have to be over the age of 18 to post on this site. Please refrain from browsing the site until such time.

>>10419715
>You're underage if you don't subscribe to my dogmatic death-cope belief system.

Autism

>>10419842
>complete lack of self awareness of his own autism
>calling others autistic
kek

>>10415970
Does this only apply to public schools? Do private schools offer superior education?

>>10419477
>Weeeeewwwww you really got me. Hurr durr
Take your autism meds and don't skip your appointments.
>an OMNIPOTENT God sent his ONLY SON
Why the random capitalization?
>which is also him ...
Ab Absurdo (Appeal to Ridicule) is a logical fallacy.
>Phoneposting you nigger
It's always the phone posters.....
>assert that it isn't a lie, you have to prove that it is true
Look up slander/libel laws. People are free to have whatever opinions they want regardless of whether they can prove it. Lying requires you to know that it's false and continue to spread misinformation regardless.

>>10419842
>anyone who criticizes me is an enemy sympathizer

>>10420061
At the public high school that I attended, 30% of the students were lazy potheads, the other 30% were dumb rednecks, and the other 30% were stupid mexicans and blacks who were always joining gangs and getting arrested.

>>10420129
And yet everyone gets the same exact degree.

>>10420035
no u the post

>>10420095
Literally what? Are you calling me a commie or something?

>>10420359
Well, you fell for the commie memes

>>10420061
Students at private schools are taught by teachers who are qualified enough to be university professors. In addition, they usually have better academic records

I realized school was dumb when I was learning calculus. The teacher was a moron and taught calculus like this. "To take a derivative, you decrease the exponent by one and put the old exponent in the front".

I wasn't satisfied with the answer so I asked how we can find derivatives that aren't in that form, and her response was to look it up and memorize the "trick" for that kind of equation.

>>10418540
>>10418550
Its the route to take if you don't have the funding to just go all in on med school, otherwise by all means just shoot straight for med school. If you feel equipped for it there is no reason to delay, the biggest issue with going nursing first is that many never go back to med school. Good luck to you I'm sure you'll be fine either way.

And yeah everybody deals with the emotional aspect differently, as long as you know how to effectively handle your emotions in a way that's beneficial to you. I'm pretty numb to it too but every now and then a situation cracks my egg.

>>10420129
Texas?

>>10419131
my state will train anyone with a bachelor's and passing praxis score to start teaching within 6 months. Teachers make 38k which is technically for a masters level education in teaching. We're importing Filipinos every year to work as special ed teachers. Teachers are basically daycare workers giving out reading assignments, questions and worksheets. Almost always a short lecture and then busy work since you're not allowed to leave even if the work is done. Kids would sleep a lot since classes start 7am here

>>10420468
That or public schools in affluent areas generally produce much higher quality education. Either way money will cause an education gap.

Luckily, if you're intelligent you'll be able to succeed regardless of where you grew up assuming you have a dedicated work ethic. The people that get screwed are the average who could receive a better education but don't have rich parents who can afford to send them to private schools.

>>10416762

Imagine the comfy feeling of being a child of decent parents and the only worry in your life is eating through an exciting curriculum like this

>>10420714
Some of those same students crack under the ridiculous pressure placed upon them at a young age to succeed in grueling course work.

>>10420717

That's why I mentioned decent parents I would only put my child in a school like this if he showed passion

>>10420730
There ya go anon, this guy gets it.
My grandfather was very oppressive so my father always let me make my own decisions at an early age. I think that's the reason I was successful in college, my passion for education was never tainted by other peoples demands and expectations.

>>10420740
maybe that's why traditional education churned out psychopaths that want to rule society, seems like even our elected officials are all educated sociopaths and narcissists

>>10420362
I'm agnostic nigger, I still hold onto lots of Christian morality, just without the fables.

>>10420092
>>10420092
>Take your autism meds and don't skip your appointments.
Not an argument
>Why the random capitalization?
Because (ignoring the fact that omnipotence is also a paradox) you can't be omnipotent and have scarcity and I was capitalizing those words to convey that, you low iq subhuman.
>Ab Absurdo (Appeal to Ridicule) is a logical fallacy.
Cherrypicking a demonstration of absurdity that was supposed add some degree of humor to the rest of what I said while ignoring the rest of what I wrote is literally two fallacies rolled into one. (the Texas sharpshooter/fallacy fallacy)
>Look up slander/libel laws. People are free to have whatever opinions they want regardless of whether they can prove it. Lying requires you to know that it's false and continue to spread misinformation regardless.
Ok then you're not a liar just a retard who believes in lies fed to him and espouses them on an anonymous Native American garment enthusiast board.

>>10420826
>Not an argument
It wasn't supposed to be an argument but a comment on your apparent autism.

>(ignoring the fact that omnipotence is also a paradox)
Only if you sloppily define it. You can find paradoxes in set theory with the naive definitions.

>you can't be omnipotent and have scarcity
Um, that's a non sequitur. Are you confusing only making one (by choice) and only *able* to make one?

>Cherrypicking a demonstration of absurdity that was supposed add some degree of humor to the rest of what I said
I was citing everything you said in that paragraph as an appeal to ridicule as you made no arguments beyond that paraphrase.

>then you're not a liar
When was this about me? We were talking about the school.

>believes in lies fed to him
Again, prove they are knowingly lying and not simply mistaken.

>>10415970
Yeah
School wasn't kool until college. Here's how it goes
>elementary
Women who want to be moms 24/7 to other people's kids and cool uncle guys who are probably in good faith but still seem creepy.
>middle
They couldn't deal with HS students so they go there where they have more control.
>HS
Couldn't make it as college profs, good teachers in there somewhere but have largely given up on changing students who need it the most.
>College and professional ed
Legitimately good educators*
*At least wise enough to get tenured, with possible autistic traits

>>10420885
>It wasn't supposed to be an argument but a comment on your apparent autism.
Not an argument.
>Only if you sloppily define it. You can find paradoxes in set theory with the naive definitions.
Lmao then how do you define It?
>Um, that's a non sequitur. Are you confusing only making one (by choice) and only *able* to make one?
KYS you actual retard my point was relevant and still stands.
>When was this about me? We were talking about the school.
>Again, prove they are knowingly lying and not simply mistaken.
Fuck you and your worthless goal post moving semantics my points you haven't even begun to address still stand.

>>10421039
>KYS you actual retard my point was relevant and still stands.
What was it?
>my points you haven't even begun to address still stand
Which were?

>>10421055
What were your points again? I seem to be too retarded to scroll back up the thread and read them.

t.OP

>>10416762
I haven't met more than 2 (two) persons who have taken Calculus before High School. That curriculum would be impossible even for fucking MIT students, except if you are Terrence Tao or Allen Liu of course.

>>10421384
>I haven't met more than 2 (two) persons who have taken Calculus before High School

Because public schools do EVERYTHING in their power to stop kids from being moved up.

>>10421404
This, my Chinese friend Bell was hanged drawn and quartered for performing calculus in middle school

>>10421404
Fucking retard, those two were in a super competitive High School in Palo Alto. There the fuckers took AP Calculus in Freshmen Year as if it was normal.

Those two kids (obviously asian) were homeschooled; and I would say you're correct if it weren't because most homeschooled children were just 1 or 2 years advanced.
I don't even know if USAMO boys even take that advanced math at such a young age.

>>10415970
I feel like there is a misunderstanding about how the system approaches education - a lot of what goes on seems to be for building intuition and a foundation for inductive reasoning.

Your complaint about the subjects being arbitrary seems a bit unfounded since in exposing a child to a range of subjects, they are given the opportunity to decide what they enjoy. In some fields, memorising nonsense is just how it works (e.g. History) while applying logic || reasoning is how it works in the others (Maths or natural sciences, for instance). Children having to apply both [memorising and reasoning] is not unduly so; it builds practice and intuition as well about how they can best go about doing so. Both skills are important.

That being said, the system in the USA is hugely retarded and meant to keep the lowest IQ people in the population graduating, regardless of whether or not they are fit to do so. Probably would not let my children go through the USA's education system.

With regards to subsidising education: seems wanton. Education is a shite career path (who wants to teach little brats ? Half the time, Prof.s can't stand their students) and I doubt that the population constituents would change very much unless you succeeded in making STEM/research careers less attractive to intellectuals (who are probably more interested in learning/ applying their knowledge than hanging out with kids).

>>10415970
the key is to instill a sense of initiative in the youth

>>10421384
I finished all American HS Maths + 2 years worth of Maths (and various other sciences) for a dual degree Bachelor's (maths+pure natsci) by the time that I was 16/17.
It's extremely easy; there is no intellectual prowess that is involved. Just focus. It helps when you aren't going at a turtle's pace for everything, particularly in fields such as Maths/ pure natural sciences, where most everything just requires reasoning

>>10421446
At least I want to know what did you do after that, or how common was (for you) to find people in the same level of proficiency at math as you.

>>10421411
I mean they will resist any request to move a kid into more advanced classes or speed up their education.