/sci/ - Science & Math

Not in the Copenhagen interpretation.

>how do i interact with something without interacting with it

>>10390093
>>10390099
i remember reading awhile ago that you can do some measurements without collapsing the wave function

>>10390110
thats what the wave function is, known energy without the position known. Collapse of the wave function is position known and momentum unknown

>>10390117
Wrong, the hamiltonian is an operator that collapses the wave function and produces an eigenvalue of energy

>>10390093
It's a wave only, the particle is imaginary. No rest mass, no existence in reality. Only imaginary concept physicists come up with to measure a non physical phenomena.

Example - sound wave. No particles. No sound is silence. Do you go taking particles out of your ear after a talk?

>>10390098
That's why you do it through the Istanbul Convention.

>>10390117
Collapse of the wave function can also be time dependent as per the heisenberg uncertainty principle

>>10390110
You can. In fact thats why double slit works the way it does. Only a precise measurement, of all dimensions in phase space, causes collapse.

>>10390117
Energy and position commute.

>>10390211
Even more wrong. The hamiltonian never collapses the wave function. Or else all wavefunctions would instantly collapse, because the hamiltonian is the generator of time.

If you even knew what a eigenvalue was you would understand how self contradictory that is

>>10390093
I am the Demiurg

>>10390093
>Making the wave collapse.

Ignorance is not data.

Just measure momentum and position at the same time lol.
How dumb are physicists?

>>10390093
There is no energy or particle without wave collapse.

>>10390093
Technically there is a way to do this but it would take so much computing power that it is practically impossible.

What you'd need to do is know the entire mass-energy content of the universe then substract all the mass-energy away until you only have the mass-energy of the particle remaining without interacting with it.

By deduction you'd be able to know its energy without making the wave collapse.

However this is as good as impossible but it's still a good thought exercise to remind people that it's possible to find out about properties without interaction.

>>10391812
How do you find out the entire mass-energy content without knowing about the particle tho?

>>10391819
There are certain methods like extrapolating backwards towards the big bang and measuring the mass-energy contents of that which we already have (just not accurate enough for a single particle to be within the uncertainty bounds).

Better space observations like the JWST are going to improve the accuracy of it. Eventually we will have accurate enough data to be able to do this in theory. But it'd still take so much computing power that it might as well be impossible.

>>10391819
you can't, and their argument is circular

>>10391849
you need to be 18 to post here

>>10390093
No dude. A particle is a fucking wave collapse.

>>10390098

>>10391886
Not only 18+ also hold a bachelors in physics. English just isn't my native language.

If you have any problems with what I said please post them so I can explain it to you better.

>>10390110
It's called pure mathematics

>>10390117
It's really mathematic theory that reflects effects of causality. You can see the causality not the thing itself.

>Copenhagen interpretation
A particle is a wave that collapsed due to observation therefor it's impossible
>Multiverse
Where a particle lands is predetermined by the universe we live in and every deviation of distributions results in another universe. It's impossible to do so because we don't know which universe we are in
>Pilot-wave
If we know the waves the particles are riding on we could in theory calculate the energy, we just don't know what those waves they are riding on are.

There you have it. Although you could technically calculate the energy of a particle by subtracting all known energies aside from it in the copenhagen interpretation.

>>10390093
Yes. If the particle has definite energy, just collapse it in energy basis, it will be a noop. Copenhagencucks are legitimately uneducated.

>>10391258
Say my name

>>10391812
Before quantum Computing

>>10390318
but then it gets cut up

>>10391819
Just like Eureka the boat displaces water

>>10392032
Of course we don't have anywhere near a data set nor can we even say that's possible but an interesting thought

>>10391812
This is still a measure which will lead to the collapse of the wave functions of all particles in a quantum state

>>10392061
No. There is 0 interaction with the actual particle in question. The collapse of the wave function is a result of interacting with the particle. What you said is why /x/ thinks the particles are somehow conscious of people knowing its information and therefor collapsing or something. It has nothing to do with conscious observation but with the interaction involved in doing so.

If it is just the act of knowing then all wave functions would be collapsed by now due to boltzman brains in the future having calculated all of their information in the far future given enough time anyway.

>>10390337
And does such a thing exist? Heisenberg would doubt it.

>>10392076
>calculating energy of the universe
>not including the particle which means interacting with it by the act of measurement
I don't fucking understand your reasoning

>>10392088
>Universe is a closed system
>Universe was at one point condensed into a single ball of condensed energy
>Universe is expending at a predictable rate
>Due to the laws of conversion of mass-energy we know that the amount of total energy of the universe now is the same as it was at the start of the universe

Therefor if we use higher resolution telescopes like the JWST we can look further back into the past and see the energy densities. You can use this information to calculate the total energy of the universe at the start.

if you then account for every other energy in the universe and know the total amount of energy in the system you can just subtract them. This takes an incomprehensible amount of calculating power but is possible in theory. In this case you would find out about the energy the particle contains without interaction and without collapsing the wavefunction.

>>10392098
this shit sounds like sci-fi or pop-sci

>a wavefunction collapses
Umm no sweetie

>>10392142
wow, where this shit from?

>>10392142
Nonlocality is basically quantum flat earth.

>>10392183
Copenhagen is basically the persecution of galileo

>>10390093
Not by any known means

>>10392142
I believe thats the answer too. Even the probability is somewhat the same.

>>10390093
It would be very painful.

>>10392183
locality is the most retarded assumption ever made, along with the assumption that the laws of physics are immutable

>>10394303
You're a big guy

>>10394311
For you.

>>10390093
look up weak measurements

>>10392139
It's thought experience to showcase the fact that it's possible to infer data about a particle without interaction and therefor avoid collapse of the wavefuction in theory.

It will never be done in reality due to the complexities involved but it's completely possible and the fact that it is possible has some real life implications. And could have some effects on copenhagen interpretation.

>>10392167
Pilot wave, I believe, there's a site for that. It really explains the double slit experiment. With the same pattern and everything. It's crazy.

>>10395331
>>10392167
It's also known as walking droplets.

>>10392167
pilot wave theory

It adds an extra equation to QM that says how a particle interacts with its pilot wave