/sci/ - Science & Math

Molecular origami and shuffling

>>10378389
ATP synthase of the kind you're looking at probably only showed up really late in the evolutionary timeline.

Life probably began as erratic chemical reactions wherein clusters of proto-proteins kludged together copies of eachother. After a few billion years of chugging along in murky water LUCA had crystallized as the optimum basic lifeform.

>>10378389
Aliens had to stop on Earth to repair their malfunctioning spaceship.
Then one of them decided to piss in the ocean.

>>10378401
this
proteins first
then dna

>>10378389
I've heard it hypothesized that microscopic bubbles/tiny pits in rock formed good little collection points for the stuff that would become single cells. Always thought it sounded semi-plausible, considering we don't really have the answer in any case.

>>10378430
Proteins and lipid vesicles.

>>10378401
that's a lot of ifs and when and doesnt explain jack shit. why not just say God created us

>>10378430
I also believe in the order that we went from amino acids to proteins to RNA to DNA. Increasing complexity along the way. Revolutionary phenotypes sure are a hell of a drug.

>>10378432
I personally think ocean floor hydrothermal vents are a more likely environment. Remember archaic chemical reactions would probably rely a lot on environmental circumstance, and chemistry generally needs thermal gradients (especially stuff like proteins) to work. Proteins technically use electrical gradients but heat plays a significant role in those too.

Our human body is so sophisticated that we maintain a 36-37C environment in which proteins that are meant to operate at a given temperature (rather than a given gradient) do their work. The most primitive lifeforms probably didn't have the luxuries of pH control, electric and thermal controls like we do. That all only comes once you begin developing membranes and a cytoplasm (a long way down the road).

>>10378440
God doesn't explain why there is genetic evidence for LUCA.

Just follow Kant's advice: at some point you simply need to put your beliefs aside to do good science. I go to church and that doesn't stop me from being a good scientist. God isn't relevant in my laboratory work.

>>10378445
>Just follow Kant's advice: at some point you simply need to put your beliefs aside
wew lad, coming from a crackpot like Kant that sure means a lot

>>10378457
It was in the foreword to the Critique of Practical Reason I believe.

I feel like Kant gets shidded on a little too much but maybe that's because I'm German and partial to him.

There is no objecting the autism behind basing morality on legalism is though.

>>10378445
>God doesn't explain why there is genetic evidence for LUCA.
we are talking about the actual creation of life. yes a creation because at one point something dead became something living. and not darwinism

>>10378466
There is no such point though because there is no strict definition of life. So what is your point?

>>10378401
Not billions of years. "True" cellular life happened well within 1 billion years of the formation of the Earth.
Luca probably wasn't the first successful and wide spread life form

>>10378474
>something became somehow something (we cant define it)
>but let me tell you that it went exactly like this
-t. science

>>10378440
Because that's the same as saying "we don't know and will never know"
It's giving up. It's anti-science.

>>10378482
it's honesty and that's the first step towards wisdom and enlightenment

>>10378466
What is "alive" and what is "dead"?
When do chemical reactions become life, and vice versa?

The epistemology here basically makes the conversation impossible.

>>10378476
It stands to reason that LUCA probably was, since it had to defeat all its primitive competitors to arise in the first place, and that should preclude the evolution of a competitor on the level of LUCA itself (since the necessary steps have been destroyed by the first LUCA).

That being said it's unsure whether LUCA was a single species, and perfectly possible that the last LUCA destroyed all previous LUCA-candidates to claim the title. LUCA must then have been destroyed as it evolved into more sophisticated organisms.

>>10378445
RNA is also believed by some to have come before proteins. Mainly due to it's ability to fold and perform basic chemical reactions, as well as having the property to encode for proteins. This follows the parsimony principle.

>>10378488
>The epistemology here basically makes the conversation impossible.
No it doesn't, it invites conversation and a plurality of defensible positions.

>>10378389
it was random.

i'm a 2nd year aerospace fag, age 19,and i'm losing hope. my iq is 125 and fucked up my grades. i'm planning on doing my phd later on. i've no idea how i should publish a research paper, i'm not really a social guy(can't make eye contact and speak fast, basically autistic.) i just want to put my all into this and build my confidence back. how do i start? what do i do to publish a research paper? i literally have no idea at all! none! i've no other options. please help?

>>10378578
sci is iq 150+. ask on >>>/hm/

>>10378578
>iq less than 175
>hoping to make an impact on science

>>10378481
>strawman insult strawman, goddidit
t. retard

Why are you on the science board of you are just going to ignore it and substitute your retarded opinion?

>>10378755
>when you get blown out of the water so hard, you need to unleash a torrent of ad hominems

It was made by god in the 5th and 6th days

@10378818
>babby's first troll

Gawd did it

>>10378389
Chance

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem

>>10378857
first you need to show that something like this can actually be created by chance

>>10378578
Get your degree before you even think about research.

>>10378783
>strawman
>BTFO
Choose one, retard.

>>10378863
Show that it can't

>>10378892
you make a claim, not me

>>10378484
Science strives for neither wisdom nor enlightenment, both are subjective and cannot be quantified. Science will never look to dogma for explanations. That's why creationism is wrong, it cannot exist in the realm of science, therefore it must be rejected.

>>10378863
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/abioprob/abioprob.html

>>10378389
in a lab.

>>10378583
your waifu died for nothing

>>10378440
cool stuff, who made god?

>>10379010
>talkorigins

holy fuck i havn't seen this since 2007

>>10378578
listen to me okay. im not joking with you when I give you this advice. make money, make money, make money. don't worry about 'research', there is no money in research. do what makes you the most money and start staking up

>>10379129
the demiurg of course