/sci/ - Science & Math

>>10377507
0,0208 aprox anon. Were they only 12 ovens per camp or overall?

20,833.333333

>>10377518
The camp with the best preserved remains has 12 ovens. So let's assume all camps had 12 ovens.

>>10377524
That's only like 57 per day and oven, thought you were going to redpill me on the Holocaust

>>10377532
My bad. I didn't realize they were only burning 3 bodies an hour non-stop in each oven.

>>10377507
>>>/pol/

>>10377524
>best preserved
You're joking, right?

>>10377507
You forgot the death squads (mostly in the Eastern Front) who in some estimates might have accounted for more than 30% of the total death toll.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust#Death_squads

Also somewhat irrelevant, but the figure of 6 millions is now understood to be 5 million jews + 1 millions others (homos, gypsies, mentally handicapped persons, etc.).

>>10377544
How big was each of these ovens ?

Why do americans believe that the figure belongs exclusively to those killed in the 6 extermination camps?

>>10377576
This.
>>10377507
And come on, OP, we both know you agree with the killings and only wished there were more, why are you still trying to convince others they never happened.

>>10377589
>haha we all know you hate the lying Jews why are you mad about Jews lying?

>>10377595
just jews? so you wouldn't want to kill homos, gypsies or the mentally disabled, right?

>>10377598
Just admit that mathematically the holocaust as we know it is impossible, and it is far more likely that the 6 "death" camps were like the 62 other camps. Work camps.

Daily reminder that all of this is 100% true, and you're a mentally ill, dangerous criminal if you talk back even a little.

>>10377607
yeah, holy shit, you're right, they only killed 5.8 million people in cold blood THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING
brainless moron

>>10377613
One hundred percent true.

>>10377507
They didn’t incinerate or gas all of that six million. /pol/tard fuck off.

>>10377617
Hard to believe, but it happened.

>>10377618
But that is literally the excuse why there isn't a million skeletons outside Auschwitz.

>>10377607
It's entirely possible mathematically fucking retard nigger faggot

>>10377631
https://www.hdot.org/debunking-denial/ab4-civilian-ovens-comparison/

>>10377635
Holocaust has been a word since at least the 1800’s. Oh no, people said “six million Jews” a lot. And?

>>10377639
The first time you ever cook a thanksgiving dinner just think about this thread all the time it takes to cook a 20 pound bird at 425.

>>10377651
Cremation occurs at over one thousand degrees and I don’t eat dead animals.

>>10377639
>First we put in two adults, then as many children as the muffle could contain. It was sometimes as many as five or six. We used this procedure so that the bodies of children would not be placed directly on the grid bars, which were relatively far apart. In this way we prevented the children from falling through into the ash bin.
I hate to say it, but frankly this conspiracy theory has been debunked. There were no workers required to load bodies into the ovens, because the system was fully automated, pic related

>>10377657
Thanks for the wheeze from the mental image of a Hellevator chucking people into Gehenna.

>>10377645
1889: 6 million Jews in the world
1891-1910: 6 million Jews in Russia, 4% of the population
1915: 15 million Jews, 6 million in the "heart" of the war
1919: 3 million Jews in Ukraine and Poland each
------- 6million Jews, half the population of Jews
1920: 6 millions jew affected by typhus
1920-1939: 6 million Jews exist in central and eastern Europe
1945: All 6 millions Jews in all of Europe have been killed
That's some extreme efficiency.

Don't need be a fucking math tard to realize none of these numbers add up.

>>10377681
Apparently we’re adding up numbers from random newspaper clippings from most of a century to more than a century ago.

Who cares?

>>10377635
You can also find papers with 5 million or 7 million, stop picking out the facts you want cause someone made an infographic

>>10377691
That reminds me. Where DID the 6 million number come from? There must be some surviving Nazi document that says it, or from which it can be deduced. Right?

>>10377691
>>10377694

>>10377694
>the Jews lie all the time why are you picking out the lies with this number?

>>10377697
It’s an approximation. They didn’t exactly have a total tally anywhere, and it’s essentially impossible to know how many deaths were never recorded and took place “in the wild”.

>>10377704
No one said they were lying, and how did you determine the author of every clipping was a Jew?

In fact, name the newspaper in which every clipping there is from.

>>10377507
https://youtu.be/DwKPFT-RioU?t=7m30s

>>10377710
Not what I asked. :^)

>>10377524
Auschwitz had 46 ovens
>>10377704
Stop convoluting the entire thread with meaningless sentences
>>10377697
There are historical estimates that are a range of numbers, but the 6 million is easy to remember so it's what people use

>>10377723
Auschwitz berkenbrau quite literally has 12 ovens. You can go look at them.

>>10377720
No, it is what you asked. You’re lying now.

You said “Where DID the 6 million number come from? There must be some surviving Nazi document that says it, or from which it can be deduced. Right?”

I told you, there is not.

>>10377731
>>10377723
Wow, I guess you're right, the number didn't come from anywhere! Nobody calculated it or anything like that. It just appeared one day, fully formed, and we keep it around because it's popular and stuff.

>>10377532
>On an average, it takes about one to three hours to cremate a human body, thereby reducing it to 3-7 pounds of cremains. The cremation remains are usually pasty white in color.

Just more of that super German efficiency. World War 2 era ovens were even more efficient than modern day ones. It turns out persecuting an entire continent worth of one specific race really gets the gears turning.

>>10377607
You don't understand what mathematical impossibility is.

If the claim was that infinity of Jews were killed over a finite number of years in a finite number of camps with a finite number of oven each and each oven could only burn a finite number of corpses in a finite length of time and at the end of the war we could only find a finite number of corpses, then that would be an example of mathematical impossibility.

If the claim was that a non-measurable set of Jews were killed but the Nazis hadn't access to the axiom of choice in their arsenal, then that would be an example of mathematical impossibility.

If the claim was that any killed Jews also contained as an elements another killed Jews, and so on ad infinitum, while the Third Reich would be now to be soundly grounded on the foundation axiom, then that would be an example of mathematical impossibiilty.

>>10377735
It comes from German and Axis documents and German and axis testimony.

>>10377739
>Civilian cremation procedures are comparable to the Holocaust

Nope.

>>10377745
>they used special ovens

>>10377720
The fuck did you ask then
>>10377728
>You can go look at them
Auschwitz ovens were destroyed at the end of the war but there is photographic evidence of their existence
>>10377735
You fucking retard, do you understand a historical estimate can't be an exact number?
Of course it was calculated, it's just hard to be 100% exact because of the death squads etc that were mentioned already

>>10377742
>anything is possible as long as it doesn't deal with infinite numbers or infinitesimals
>believing the axioms of ZFC
That's a double Yikes! from me, fellow gamers.

>>10377749
No, they used pretty standard ovens, they just shoved a lot of people in there with no intention to preserve their remains for urns and, importantly, NOT INSIDE OF A COFFIN.

>>10377745
>doesn't understand how heat and water works
Let me guess. Next you'll tell me that the Nazis actually laid out gassed Jews on drying racks and salted them and then let them sit for a few days to let all the moisture evaporate before burning them. Makes sense to me I guess. I mean I would have just made them dig a pit and shot them into it but gassing them, drying them, burning them, then turning the ashes into lampshades and soap bars works just as well.

>>10377757
>what is water and heat dissipation for $6,000,000

>>10377651
>industrial death camps oven have roughly the same heating power as the average oven used by an american family of four

>>10377759
>Let me guess. Next you'll tell me that the Nazis actually laid out gassed Jews on drying racks and salted them and then let them sit for a few days to let all the moisture evaporate before burning them. Makes sense to me I guess. I mean I would have just made them dig a pit and shot them into it but gassing them, drying them, burning them, then turning the ashes into lampshades and soap bars works just as well.

Wasn’t aware of any Jew-drying process but if there’s evidence of one, let’s see it.

>>doesn't understand how heat and water works

You don’t understand that cremating people today involves putting them in a coffin first. What the fuck does heat and water have to do with it? Water heats up like any other compound, turns into a gas, and goes out the chimney.

>>10377507
20833 per camp per year per oven.

>>10377751
>the number 6,000,000 was calculated
From what? Evidently not from
>the number of death camps
(which has changed over time), nor
>the number of ovens within any particular camp
(for which widely varying numbers have been givem in this thread), nor
>the total population before and after
(which again is never consistent with a six-million death toll, see >>10377635), nor
>from extant Nazi documents
because no such documentation has ever been seen or photographed. So where did the number really come from? Why has it never been modified to take into account the decreasing number of reported deathcamps as the years go by?

>>10377765
>>what is water and heat dissipation for $6,000,000

Something literally irrelevant. The oven company that produced the ovens calculated one body would take 25 minutes, with overlap between bodies.

>>10377720
Is Molyneux talking about Catholics ?

>>10377776
What were the total jewish populations before and after?

>>10377782
Before: 6million in Europe, half the total population
After: 0 in Europe + the millions of survivors that migrate to Europe from other countries during the war.

>>10377776
>because no such documentation has ever been seen or photographed. So where did the number really come from? Why has it never been modified to take into account the decreasing number of reported deathcamps as the years go by?

Is this a troll?

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/artifact/map-titled-jewish-executions-carried-out-by-einsatzgruppen-a?parent=en%2F11652

>>10377790
Surely you can give a sarcasm free answer
If you want to deny the holocaust please show how many Jews actually disappeared during 1939-1945 and how this can be explained without extermination

>>10377752
If was implicitly using ZFC because that's what most mathematicians use and I was merely giving examples. Here's another:

If the claim was that the dead Jews could be counted up to epsilon0, but that the arithmetic behind the Nazi record lacked consistency, then that would be an example of mathematical impossibility.

If the claim was that the dead Jews were purely imaginary, but that you could be positive about the people dead in squares, then that would be an example of mathematical impossibility.

Also
>Implying one "believes"in axioms

Are you from 1930 ? That would explain your skepticism about the holocaust.

>>10377795
There’s a memo from the 8th of September, 1942 detailing an order for cremation ovens from Topf and Sons, which is photographed. They were certainly cremating SOMEONE.

>>10377613
Do you also assume the serial killer down the street isn't real because he split a person in half while eating his ass?
Cause that's just unreal mang lol

Notice the Nazis vanish when an actual document is posted.

Daily reminder that Zyklon B is a pesticide

>>10377759
> I mean I would have just made them dig a pit and shot them into it

They actually tried that, but it was too long for their taste (in the camps). They applied it readily on the Eastern Front with the aforementioned Einsatzgruppen, however.

>>10377796
Sure, just as a soon as you show me how many ghosts disappeared between 1980 and 2000 and how you can explain this without Ghost Busters.

>>10377795
>1940s-era unauthenticated powerpoint slide, bearing numbers nowhere close to 6,000,000
>>10377810
>proof that a wartime concentration camp with thousands of inmates had to deal with dead people sometimes
>>10377797
>something about transfinite ordinal numbers

>>10377854
>a warcamp dealing with thousands of inmates needs the capacity to cremate its entire population in a week

>>10377845
Whose first form (Zyklon A) was created by a Jew.

>>10377853
>people are the same things as ghosts

Are we even trying now ?

>>10377854
>something about transfinite ordinal numbers

I was answering >>10377752 who was answering to me. If you can't follow two basic post quotes don't engage in a mathematical conversation you philistine.

>>10377858
Ironically Eichmann was teased for looking like a Jew in his childhood

about 57 cremated in a day per oven?

>>10377854
>>>10377854
>1940s-era unauthenticated powerpoint slide, bearing numbers nowhere close to 6,000,000

Wrong. It’s a captured map used as evidence during the Nuremberg trials and it provides some documentation on the number of Jews killed by just einsatzgruppen, part of the Holocast,at some point between 1941 and 1945, disproving your claim that “no such documents have been seen or photographed”. No one ever said it had to give exactly six million, what it does do is provide a lower limit.

>>proof that a wartime concentration camp with thousands of inmates had to deal with dead people sometimes

This required:
“I told him that at this time 3 double-muffle

ovens are in operation, with a capacity of

250 per day. Further, currently under

construction are 5 triple muffle ovens
with a daily capacity of 800. Today and in the next few

days, 2 eight-muffle ovens, each with a daily capacity

of 800, will come on consignment, redirected from Mogilew.
Mr K said that this number of muffles is not yet sufficient;

we should deliver more ovens as quickly as possible.”

Doesn’t sound like people dying normally...

>>10377877
Which technically isn't crazy, since they were gassing hundreds a day in the showers.

>>10377892
With a pesticide.

57 a day in a single oven

>>10377892
>they were gassing hundreds a day in the showers.
[citation needed]

And please refer to http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/16-tlr.pdf before posting unscientific propaganda, The Leuchter Reports, critical edition should address almost every mysterious aspect of the infamous gas chambers on a sourced and thoroughly researched basis.

>>10377903
The company that made the ovens were confident they could incinerate much more than that daily.

>>10377889
>nuremberg testimony
How about those hundreds or thousands or millions of lamphades, wallets, gloves and other goods made of human skin? Where are those items these days?

>>10377906
Yea those Germans are known for their corporate estimates. I drive a 2012 diesel jetta for that reason.

>>10377910
They wouldn't *all* just vanish without a trace, right? They should be in a museum somewhere. #neverforget

>>10377907
Leuchter Report was refuted very quickly and easily.

>>10377507
More Russians than Jews died.

>>10377906
Sure and they got a lasers to boost the death rate. Let's make more fairytales

>>10377910
>How about those hundreds or thousands or millions of lamphades, wallets, gloves and other goods made of human skin? Where are those items these days?

Not considered credible.

>>10377918
>Sure and they got a lasers to boost the death rate. Let's make more fairytales

We are talking about the speed of cremation, not death rates. Staring at /po/ in the moldy basement darkness has apparently done things to your train of thought. Could you please explain how it is impossible for an extremely large eight muffle oven to burn 57 bodies in one day?

>>10377921
>doubting the testimony of multiple Nuremberg Trial witnesses
Get a load of this Denier.

>>10377926
Fuck yea burning 60 bodies a day in a coffin size oven for 4 years straight sounds easy as fuck.

>>10377940
>Fuck yea burning 60 bodies a day in a coffin size oven for 4 years straight sounds easy as fuck.

Sixty, now? Thought we had settled on fifty-seven. It’s kind of funny how you can’t hold all your lies in your hands. I’ll blow your tiny, tiny brain. Watch

A “muffle” is the place where a body is actually burned. An eight-muffle oven has EIGHT slots to burn people, and they put multiple bodies in each slot, many emaciated or children. It’s really not hard to grasp how such an oven could churn through, say, sixty bodies (I’ll let you have that cute little lie) in a day. Perhaps the root of your delusion is that you think one oven=one muffle. In reality, each individual oven had multiple muffles.

>>10377926
Yeah I indeed lurk paper and origami

But we don't talk about extemely large ovens here. 57 a day in this kind of oven

>>10377950
Watch this. This will be education.

I will assume that a Holocaust cremation would take a whopping three hours, which it wouldn’t, because these bodies WERE NOT IN COFFINS.

Our eight-muffler oven can thus burn eight bodies per three hours.

So let’s use this oven over a day

24 hours in a day

24 hours divided by three hours equals eight.

8x8=64

This is 64 bodies burned a day by one oven, ASSUMING it would take more than twice the time it actually would.

Fuck off /pol/

>>10377954
That’s a two-muffle oven, of which they had only three in 1941. At that time, FIVE triple-muffle ovens were under construction and TWO eight-muffle ovens in operation.

>>10377959
Modern cremation doesn't require a coffin, it's generally just a cardboard box and a plastic bag inside. It still takes around 8 hours to essentially structurally vaporize everything, which is why you're left with ash and not full bones. The ash is the bones and minerals, all else evaporates.

>>10377966
>Modern cremation doesn't require a coffin, it's generally just a cardboard box and a plastic bag inside

Let’s see proof of your claim that most cremations use cardboard boxes.

>It still takes around 8 hours to essentially structurally vaporize everything, which is why you're left with ash and not full bones. The ash is the bones and minerals, all else evaporates.

https://www.cremationresource.org/cremation/how-is-a-body-cremated.html

Says you’re wrong.

https://www.nationalcremation.com/ask-a-funeral-director/how-long-does-the-entire-cremation-process-take

Says you’re wrong

https://blog.martinoakscemeteryandcrematory.com/long-take-cremate-body/

Says you’re wrong, and even offers a shorter period of vaporization than I did.

I love running circles around /pol/tards.

Pesticide
57 a day per oven
Lampshades
Only found in Soviet "liberated" areas
6'000'000

Why, of course I do believe that holocaust happened

>>10377978
>Says you’re wrong, and even offers a shorter period of vaporization than I did.

If we give the oven only two hours per cremation, we’ve jumped to 96. Your denialism is as resistant to investigation as Shōji is to Mike Tyson.

>>10377984
When oven capacity was exceeded, they’d just burn them in pits. These pits are visible in aerial photographs of the site.

>>10378023
Links to photos?

>>10378023
>aerial photos show geographical features
>I know for a fact what these were for
>by the way, I have no proof that the photos even exist
If this story were true, you could easily prove it by going to the site and test the soil for fuel, smoke and human remains. But for some reason this has never been done.

>>10378023
fairy tales much?

>>10377507
About 20,833 jews/(camps*years*ovens) mr hiter. Any more questions?

>>10378042
>there isnt photographs of thousands of corpses
>there wasnt, in fact, mounts of bone fragments and ash discovered
?

>>10378031
Bergen-Belsen

>>10378042
>aerial photos show geographical features
>I know for a fact what these were for
>by the way, I have no proof that the photos even exist

Here they are.

https://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/see-no-evil/

Do I get some kind of nuke for this killstreak of embarrassing holocaust deniers?

>>10378031
https://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/see-no-evil/

You can also see them on Google Earth as discoloration. Mostly behind Crematorium 5.

The reason they were used, mostly, was an influx of Hungarian Jews and typhus outbreaks.

>>10377982
>all victims were incinerated
Claims nobody

>>10378044
“Fairy tales”

https://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/see-no-evil/

>>10378052
>mountains of bone and ash
[citation needed]

>>10378056
Except that the standard claim for 40 years is that 6 million Jews were gassed and then cremated.

The holocaust would be a lot different if the official story was "we imprisoned 6 million Jews just like you did with the naps, but we lost so our canteen factories ended up starving.

>>10378055
Those little ponds you see dotted nearby were also used for ash dumping.

>>10377507

>>10378064
The average human becomes less than ten pounds of ash when cremated. What?

>>10378062
“Standard claim”

From who? Some random guy that doesn’t know about the event?

>>10378068
That’s great, now take all newspapers written ever in that time period, all of their editions, and scan to see how many times “six million Jews” appears more than any other quantity.

>>10378064
This is bait right?

>>10378069
>there is no "standard claim", lol
Isn't that convenient when you are asked to prove something!

>>10378077
Yes, it’s so convenient to be able to say “I don’t have to prove something I never claimed”, isn’t it? LMAO

>>10378077
>>there is no "standard claim", lol

I never said that, by the way. How many Neo-Nazi lies have we racked up in this thread so far? At least ten.

>>10378082
Check out this holocaust denier, he doesn't think six million jews were killed in gas chambers and then cremated in Nazi extermination camps during WWII.

WITH JEWS, YOU LOSE.
BECAUSE AS A JEW, YOU HAVE LOST.

>>10378086
Back to the non-arguments based on a stereotypical claim no one here made. I’ve never seen /pol/ get smacked this hard on /sci/ before.

>>10378095
>stereotypical claim
It's clear from you language that you don't believe six million jews were killed in gas chambers and then cremated in Nazi extermination camps during WWII. But which part specifically are you denying, and where's your proof?

>>10378099
Out of arguments. So cute. Run along to your containment board, now.

>>10378061
Here ya go

>>10378107
Don't worry, little one. Keep practicing, and you won't get cornered this easily next time.

>>10378062
>Except that the standard claim for 40 years is that 6 million Jews were gassed and then cremated
It isnt. Most were not cremated and not gassed. The majority died of being shot or starved or marched to death.