/sci/ - Science & Math

>>10351542
Without US and EU markets China is cucking itself by a long shot.
Sending shit in to space is still the most expensive shit you can do today.
1988 was the year USSR cucked itself so hard it collapsed after trying to beat USA.

This is it.

Space be raycis, need more money for dem programs.

>>10351549
USSR economy could never compete with USA.
Chinese economy has already surpassed the Americans.

>>10351554
>Chinese economy has already surpassed the Americans.
The Chinese economy lacks transparency. We have no idea what reality is like, only what the politically appointed spokesmen tell us the economy is like.

>>10351542
Because the USA has had its Golden Age and is now in decline, the RED DRAGON HAS AWOKEN!

>>10351587
Ah yes, more retarded conspiracy theories by the americans.

>>10351549
>cuck..cuck....etc.
Kill yourself

>>10351587
>We have no idea what reality is like
just look at an average Chinese city.

>>10351542
They're also leading genetic engineering.

>>10351542

The USA has other priorities,

ie war , war, war, war , war , war

the USA is in the final stages of a collapsing Empire, everything is being directed into war, a desperate attempt to maintain the frontiers of the Empire, bouncing from one Loss or defeat to the next, bewildered and confused, infrastructure collapsing at home, and the public still wants war war war war, sold on it by The Media, the War Bucks go into the pockets of the elites. Same story as every other empire that fell.

>>10351616
Nice empty city Chang, meanwhile in the real world:

https://twitter.com/WSJ/status/1091188157964578816

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1087344327158886400/photo/1

I guess the tariff man really did a number on you, huh?

>>10351542

Also, regarding China's high launch rate, the reason why it's so high is that their currently in the middle of launching large constellations of their government's orbital infrastructure e.g. Beidou GPS satellites, spy satellites. The US on the other hand, were in this exact position in the 1990s and early 2000s when Delta 2 rockets were launching a bazillion times a year; America is simply in a later part of the cycle where they only need to launch to replace old satellites and augment existing capabilities. Also talking of science, China only launched one significant scientific payload last year: Chang'e 4, most of the payloads were either government imaging or telecommunications satellites.

>>10351542

This is very misleading because most of Chinese launches were by small launch vehicles in the 2-6 tons max payload to LEO range. While US launches are usually by LVs in the 20 tons to LEO range. You are comparing apples and oranges. US is still the leader in space. And with their progress in reusable rocketry, rest of the world will be playing catch-up in foreseeable future.

>>10351660
and how many of those payloads were 20 tons?
hint: none of them

spacex can't even build a functioning hydrolox engine, LMAO

>>10351660
>>10351674
also I'll add
spacex's launches have been falling year by year as they've failed again and again to attract new customers

>>10351674
>spacex can't even build a functioning hydrolox engine

good thing hydrolox engines are a technological dead end then

>>10351610
OP started with it, you chink.

>>10351674
>and how many of those payloads were 20 tons?
>hint: none of them

They were still comparatively larger than Chinese ones.

>>10351687
>good thing hydrolox engines are a technological dead end then
Keep telling yourself that, as spacex continues to lose customer after customer to other companies that have high-energy upper stages.

>>10351554
Chinese economy is dependent on EU and US markets. If the US falls EU falls 1/3, chinks will lose more than 80% value. And that is way after the tipping point. In a centralized economy this is beyond crisis.

>>10351660
>spacex
>propped up by billions in government funding
>pours all extra funding into publicity stunts and an internet constellation that's years behind the competition and doomed to fail
Can't wait to see this pile of cards fall to the ground.

>>10351652
>most of the payloads were either government imaging or telecommunications satellites
>He actually believes this

They are sending fucking weapons up there.

>>10351689
>no proof

>>10351706
>propped up by billions in government funding

Like literally every other aerospace company?

>>10351706
>>spacex
>>propped up by billions in government funding

As is every other LV company. If anything, SpaceX gets among the least amount of subsidies per launch.

>>10351714
>>10351717
>Like literally every other aerospace company?
Name three.

>>10351721
How about you name a launch company that DOESN'T get any government money?

>>10351674
SpaceX launched the world's heaviest commercial satellite last year:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telstar_19V

And each Iridium launch had a combined mass of about 10 tons.

Also, SpaceX ain't the only US rocket consortium:

https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2019/01/ula-delta-iv-heavy-set-to-launch-nrol-71/

This was likely the heaviest payload mounted to a rocket in 2018, with this type of spy satellite usually weighing in at 15 tons.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/KH-11_Kennen

>>10351712
China orbital upmass in 2018: 56 tons
SpaceX orbital upmass in 2018: 90 tons

https://twitter.com/planet4589/status/1077091559160664065

>>10351721
ULA, Arianespace and everyone of China's ((private aerospace corporations))

>>10351738
No such thing, but One Space, Link Space, Land Space, Blue Origin, Rocketlab, Vector Space Systems, Firefly Space, Virgin Galactic, Virgin Orbit, Stratolaunch, and many others receive less than 1% of their funding from the government.

>>10351744
>>10351747
American satellites are famously inefficient in mass-benefit comparisons.

>>10351747
This is a gem.
Look at all this COPE from delusional americans.

>>10351756
>Literally who's receive fuck all government funding

Yeah wow imagine my surprise, have any of these companies launched more than 2 or 3 payloads into orbit? Besides BO has been awarded a fucking shitload of contracts going forward and is producing all the BE-4s for ULA (government funded)

>>10351756
>receive less than 1% of their funding from the government

Yeah no shit because they don't actually launch any payloads into orbit except for Electron.

>Including shit like Linkspace whose only product is a fucking hopper

Wewlad.

>>10351756
>American satellites are famously inefficient in mass-benefit comparisons
That is not even a thing you obvious pseud.

>>10351674
they chose not too. They chose methane instead because it's easier to store in space. Natural gas is also fucking cheap in the US.
>>10351707
>>weapons
lol no. Space weapons are a fucking meme. Satellites with guns is a meme, because you can take out orbiting satellites with a cheaper suborbital missile. Plus guns in space makes debris which can fuck up your own satellites. Don't even get me started on rods from god. What's not a meme though are satellites with robot arms on them that just hang out within 100 km of other satellites. When given the signal they fly over and melee the other satellite, but very carefully so that there's no debris.

Honestly, I should probably post more china fear-mongering. Saying the US is ahead of china doesn't get more space funding. To fear monger a bit, the US is behind in the hypersonics arms race. Both Russia and China have successfully tested hypersonic missiles. The US has not. I can only hope that the reason the US isn't building a huge full scale hypersonic wind tunnel while we are letting our small hypersonic test facilities rot is that we have better computers.

>>10351783
Just look at a comparison of capabilities between GPS III and Beidou, you fucking moron.

>>10351794
China is developing hypersonic glide vehicles whereas the US is developing powered hypersonic missiles. US is far behind in procurement however.

Russia's latest "hypersonic missile" is a fake.

>>10351819
Don't need hypersonic missiles when you have 100mt cobalt salted torpedoes ready to tsunami and irradiate thousands of miles of coastline.

>>10351819
>Russia's latest "hypersonic missile" is a fake.
imagine coping this hard

>>10351828
Anything from Russia claiming to be a "nuclear powered" vehicle is a fake. They haven't had the resources to do that shit since the 70s.

>>10351839
Post proof of its existence then, Vlad. There's plenty of proof of the Chinese one. Where is yours?

>>10351841
Just because it costs the US government a trillion and a half dollars for a new plane doesn't mean other countries are subject to the same bullshit.

>>10351542
Pft, you should is India shitting all over the fucking place up there.

>>10351844
you know, you can keep track of tests as a foreign power lmao. if it was fake as you claim the us would have just said "lol no" and everyone would laugh at russia

>>10351542
>just another dumb idea proposed by Americans
>>10351601
>by the americans.

Obsessed.

>>10351858
>designated shitting orbit

>>10351863
>reeeee you can't shittalk us, you must be coping
>LOL other countries are just jealous

>>10351860
see >>10351844

>>10351871
You should probably lie down before you have an aneurysm.

>>10351849
Good thing we're not talking about planes then, retard.

>>10351873
Look at the fucking picture retard
what exactly do you want? a confirmation by a foreign government? classified close up pictures of it? lmao

>>10351896
It extends to all levels of your military contracting moron I just used that particular dumpster fire as an example.

>>10351844
Your an idiot, there's plenty of evidence of Russia testing a hypersonic weapons; we know they have a glide vehicle called Avengard (but it's just a glorified ICBM warhead with fins attached), we also know they have a small air-launched ballistic missile called the Khinzal as seen here >>10351860, which reaches hypersonic speeds (literally all ballistic missiles do, so it's no biggie); the only really impressive hypersonic missile they supposedly have is the Zircon scramjet powered cruise missile, which is the only member of the triad that hasn't been photographed yet. There's far more evidence of Russian hypersonic weapons than their is Chinese ones, personally I've only seen pictures of mock ups and glide warheads attached to weather balloons. The US is by far the most secretive nation when it comes to testing hypersonic weapons, but we do know the US is rapidly developing multiple missiles as shown by budgets and the US navy has apparently been testing glide vehicles near Hawaii.

>>10351918
>The US is by far the most secretive nation when it comes to testing hypersonic weapons, but we do know the US is rapidly developing multiple missiles as shown by budgets and the US navy has apparently been testing glide vehicles near Hawaii.
Not him, but do you have any proof of that?

>>10351616
>look at this one city guys its not like china is a massive fucking ghetto

>>10351926
We require detailed close up photos and technical documents for all Russian claims but can trust honourable US military industrial complex with any and all claims with only their good word.

Go back to /k/ you stupid faggots.

>>10351701
That's okay because 20% of chink value is enough to be a superpower in the post white world. It doesn't matter if you're richer than everyone else left.

>>10351942
America actually releases details about most of it's military budget, so we know the DoD are currently serious about developing two different hypersonic missiles for deployment- Arrow and Hacksaw. We also know that DARPA are also working on at least two hypersonic weapons: a scramjet called HAWC and a nuclear warhead glide vehicle called Tactical Boost Glide. This list excludes the Navy who are more secretive but appear to be testing more frequently, firing hypersonic shells originally designed for railguns from conventional canons and launching glide vehicles from Submarines near Hawaii.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/amp22791042/the-first-us-hypersonic-weapons-arrow-and-hacksaw/

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/amp.timeinc.net/thedrive/the-war-zone/24046/navy-spends-millions-on-sub-launched-hypersonics-as-usaf-touts-hypersonic-x-plane%3fsource=dam

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/mach-73-bullets-us-navy-tested-hypervelocity-cannon-round-41022

This might open up a can of worms bigger than the world...

But why do people think China is somehow challenging the US in the space industry?

Sure they have had loads of launches lately, but their launches are to deploy their equivalents to satellite networks that America has had for years. If anything they're still catching up to the capabilities of the US, not supplanting them.

Alright, there is an animosity between the US and China regarding cooperation in space, but it's nothing like what the US and the USSR had back in the space race.

The main problem about China is that they compete on quantity not quality since local administrator's careers depends on putting on ever larger numbers to gain favour with their bosses.

Without getting into stupid doomsayer stuff, their economy does work but it also has many useless make-work-type industries whose sole purpose is to zombify and provide employment such as many state owned industries.

Heck the boss of the ship building company that produced the second aircraft carrier got arrested, probably because he didn't want to fake data that would be useful for propaganda BETTAR THAN MURIKA CARRIARS HARHAR.

>>10352527
>But why do people think China is somehow challenging the US in the space industry?
There is almost no real free Chinese private enterprise, it's all, one way or another, controlled or monitored very closely by the government. It's right to say "China did x" because whatever it was it had to go trough direct government approval first. Also China is less and less shy about their plans for at least being a real challenger to US interests, military and otherwise.

>>10351542
>China completely cucking USA in space
Chinked.com

>>10351631
>They're also leading genetic engineering.
China is making
Long Dong Chang
Genius Superbabies

>>10351542 >>10352926 >>10352903 >>10352527

https://youtu.be/fGYz5SszZ74

>>10351542
China has completely fucked itself. During their industrialization, they polluted/irradiated all of their sources of fresh water, and made the air quality over most of china extremely toxic. They are spending massive amounts of money now in attempts to stop this but its going to take a long time and be very expensive. In addition, the Chinese military/space agency completely lacks any transparency in their capabilities. For example, they claim to have "stealth" technology for their bomber planes yet they only provide CGI mock-ups instead of showing the actual thing off. This also goes into industrial/military accidents. Remember when a US warship fucked up and hit another ship. They completely copped to it and now a report is publicly available detailing what happened down to the smallest minutia. In contrast, a fucking chemical plant exploded in China in 2015, hundreds were killed but the official death list was something crazy low like 12. Meanwhile, they had dozens of body parts strewn about caught on camera. That's not to mention the fact that the Chinese stock market is propped up entirely by the government, and a massive part of their GDP/growth is their construction industry which is building for no reason as there is no demand for it, so these buildings just rot into the ground.

>>10353030
There is a demand for those buildings

>>10353438
Yes, from the government to inflate China's GDP.

>>10353444
Don't they also have a housing crisis? Not enough buildings?

>>10353449
They still have 10s of millions of peasants who want to live in the cities, but those peasants can't afford a $200,000 badly made luxury flat. I mean, they will do, when the prices collapse, but not right now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XopSDJq6w8E
Property in China is like a bank account or a pension fund, it's not for actually living in. Same thing happening in the west.

>>10353030
Pollution is inconvenient but not a threat to modern economy, also Chinese ghost cities are a debunked conspiracy theory, urbanization rate is great in China and those building do get filled with people sooner or later.

>>10351542

The big difference is that with centralized leadership and without worrying about elections China can set long term goals a western democracy simply cannot.

They will overtake USA in 20 years max and it's very possible that within 30 years they will be more technologically advanced then the west.

Assuming everything works fine and they don't have sudden problems. Chinese economy is soling down a bit and with average chinese becoming richer and more educated Party leadership may fall apart.

>>10351701
>Chinese economy is dependent on EU and US markets

Every large economy is dependent on other large economies. Crisis in China will hit EU and USA just as hard. Imagine everything suddenly being 2x more expensive.

China rirr rure.

Most of those american launches aren't even american.

>>10353488
Ghost cities exist everywhere. There are poor shitholes in USA and Europe too.

>be USA
>send man to the Moon in 69
>absolutely do nothing after that
A-are they retarded?

>>10353528
Ghost cities in the west were once populous but then lost their economic purpose to exist and so were abandoned. Ghost cities in China are never occupied. Maybe they'll be occupied eventually, but there is no reason to build a city rapidly and with bad methods and then have it sit empty for 5 years allowing it to decay except to sell the units for speculative investment.

Why is China so great at making shit explode?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONsmJAyFAAw

>>10353548
we realized space is pointless. we're just letting the kids have fun

>>10353797
Why are Americans so great at making shit explode?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzDC3iKbTzY

CHINA NUMBAH WAAN

>>10351701
4 % of Chinese exports go to the USA, exports make up 20 % of the Chinese economy. Thus all exports to the USA make up 4 % of the Chinese economy.

>Chinese economy is dependent on EU and US markets.
Thus proven wrong.

Feel free to post numbers disproving this.

>>10354671
oops, i meant 20 % of the Chinese exports go to the USA.

>>10354671
But trump is destroying china with those trade wars

>>10351542

Why don't we just launch micro probes that attach to foreign satellites and decay their orbit so they crash back into our planet?
Seriously, fuck chinks

>>10354689
Growth is down 0.2 % year on year (what everyone's been projecting since 2014 or so), LITERALLY COLLAPSING.

Meanwhile China has beaten the UK in installed robot capacity, projections show that by 2026 they'll beat South Korea.

>https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/22/chinas-developing-an-army-of-robots-to-reboot-its-economy.html
>Chinese robotic growth is forecast to exceed 20 percent annually through 2020.
USA and Europe have chosen to import Mexicans and Arabs by the dozens of millions to push their industries.

>>10354707
STOP POSTING THIS SHIT YOU FAGGOT.
THE CHINKS ARE NOT DOING WELL.
THIS IS COPE AND FAKE NEWS

>>10351542
Wtf its only been a month

>>10353030
>a massive part of their GDP/growth is their construction industry which is building for no reason as there is no demand for it, so these buildings just rot into the ground.

yeah no reason why the 2nd fastest growing population in the world with billions of people wanting to move to cities would have any real demand for housing

>>10354710
Muh sources.

We're on sci here, at least post a link to the shitty blog you get your "knowlege" from.

>>10354725
Shut up race traitor

>>10354719
>yeah no reason why the 2nd fastest growing population in the world with billions of people wanting to move to cities would have any real demand for housing

Speculative development with as much effort to reduce costs as possible and nonexistent building codes, combined with a mindset that property is always a good investment, has led to overdevelopment of buildings that nobody in their right mind would want to live in and most can't afford. The industry survives on flipping those assets as quickly as possible.

>>10354778
Housing is fucking good. Especially in cities. Did you know Tokyo's population is growing while Japan's population is declining?

>>10354788
Tokyo has reached the limit of public transportation, many other asian cities soon will as well.

There's subway lines which are at 300 % capacity, they have to jam the people as if they are cattle.

>>10354788
Yes, I am well aware of the demographic trend of rural populations migrating towards urban centers.

The only thing between high IQ bugmen and us, is this piece of shit.

We're doomed.

>>10351858
just what the world needs, more Pajits leaving trash everywhere

>>10354968

Why did we entrust our future of space travel with Elon faggot Musk?

What the fuck is wrong with the government?

>>10353803
>>10353548
that's extremely ignorant
>Skylab
>Viking
>Voyager
>Hubble
>Space Shuttle
>international space station
>your choice of Mars missions
>Kepler
>juno
>cassini
>New Horizons
the list goes on and on

>>10354968
It's really fucking hilarious how ship designs came full circle. It looks like something out of 60's cartoon.

>>10354707
China is going to slow down but it's not going to collapse. Growth will stop when average chinese is about as rich as people in developed countries. This is why China is investing so hard in Africa they will need cheap labor soon.

China overtaking USA as #1 economy is pretty much certain at this point.

>>10351549
Cringe.
USSR didn't collapse because of space program.

>>10351652
If its empty, it's even more impressive.