/sci/ - Science & Math

Even though military experiments would be stopped by the 8th amendment, I can't help but think about how it would be like if they existed. These experiments could involve explosive/shrapnel effect upon the body, or a new chemical weapon test. Hell, you could even make a TV show out of this to satisfy not only eager scientists, but also sadistic psychopaths who enjoy human suffering.

Another idea is a show similar to Robot wars, except now it's 'Robot vs Helpless inmate'. The inmate doesn't even have to be helpless, he could be trained and then armed with guns, explosives and other military gear commonly found on battlefields and placed in a combat situation with other inmates to try and neutralize a new military robot prototype.

Unfortunately, western values will not allow this to happen. In China, it probably is likely to be accepted.

>>10350163
fuck no. schemes like that scream perverse incentives. just look at all the shit privatizing prisons caused

>>10350163
Yes but stop watching porn.
>>10350175
Cringe and reddit.

>>10350183
well gee, now that I've been insulted by a stranger, my opinion has completely changed. Fuck what I said earlier, we should vivisect the homeless!

>>10350187
>Fuck what I said earlier, we should vivisect the homeless!
Homelessness can be corrected. Criminality cannot.

>>10350193
homelessness is a crime
fuck, even attempting to morally justify homelessness is a crime, we should vivisect you just for posting that

>>10350187
>vivisect
You sound like a little fag.

>>10350163
There's not many people on death row to begin with and the number that would be willing to do this would be even less. What's could you do that's scientifically interesting and would produce meaningful results at such low sample sizes?

>>10350163
No one should be in death row. Execution Is Wrong, and has been considered a violation of human rights by the UN for decades. /thread

>>10350193
>Criminality cannot.


But that’s a lie, and you know it is.

>>10350198
there's an easy solution to this, put more people on death row! help solve prison overcrowding while we're at it! and why not throw in this guy for good luck? >>10350197 he sounds like he deserves it

Imagine what kind of person a scientist would have to be to experiment on unwilling human subjects.

Probably Asian.

>>10350215
Asians know that asians aren't actual humans, so it's actually okay to experiment on another insectoid.

What if, instead of losing your house to debt, you can just sign a contract to be a test subject for non-FDA-approved medical tests? I think this is an efficient use of the less productive members of society.

>>10350210
It depends on the crime. Repeat criminality in spite of reform attempts certainly cannot. Only way that can be rectified is with euthanasia.

>>10350198
>There's not many people on death row to begin
The result of too much leniency. The death penalty should be expanded to 1) repeat criminals, 2) grave offenses other than murder. Then there would be an endless supply of subhuman trash to further the human race's medical knowledge on.

>>10350163
Yes

>>10350198
>number that would be willing to do this would be even less
Don't give them a choice in the matter either. It won't matter if they're unwilling.

>>10350198
Simply solved by increasing the number of people on death row by making automatic death sentences for the highest crimes there are. Maybe a better start would be forcing capital punishment enabled by default for each state, and federally.

I don't think you'd find any shortage of voluntary labrats in the general population if it wouldn't end scientist's careers/open them up to enormous legal risk.

Not completely averse to using death row inmates, but they're not always guilty, and extremely rarely that's discovered in the enormous time they spend there.

On the other hand, they're a decent tax burden and it would make them helpful.

>>10350163
Read the book Acres of Skin. Stuff like this has already happened, repeatedly.

>>10350222
No, Murdering people is bad. Put them in a nice little box where they can stay.

>>10350239
But why

>>10350225
Someone is looking for excuses to torture and murder people.

>>10350228
Major sociopathy on display

>>10350183
>Cringe and reddit.
Shouting "reddit" instead of presenting a real argument is more-or-less the most reddit thing you can do.
Are you saying it wouldn't create perverse incentives for big pharma to push more people on to death row, or that it doesn't matter if they further ruin the criminal justice system because reddit would say that's a bad thing so it must therefore be good, or at least acceptable?

>>10350183
cringe and babypilled

>>10350198
It would be quite easy to get most of people on death row to participate in the experiments.

Some could be persuaded by giving them a few more years of extra time to live.

Some might want money that they could either use themselves while in prison or to leave as an inheritance (not all murderous assholes are indifferent about the well-being of their friends and families).

The average waiting time in death row is over 15 years anyway so they could also get a nicer accommodation/food during that time.

I don't see how any of this would be unethical as long as you simply give them a choice and not force it upon them.

>>10350165
>Hell, you could even make a TV show out of this to satisfy not only eager scientists, but also sadistic psychopaths who enjoy human suffering.
Don't you see the great irony here? Isn't that the exact sort of behaviour you're trying to stop by putting these people on death row in the first place?
>Another idea is a show similar to Robot wars, except now it's 'Robot vs Helpless inmate'. The inmate doesn't even have to be helpless, he could be trained and then armed with guns, explosives and other military gear commonly found on battlefields and placed in a combat situation with other inmates to try and neutralize a new military robot prototype.
This is clearly just your own perverse fantasy -- the very same perverse fantasy that leads to criminal behaviour. Why should we wait until you've committed your horribly sadistic crime before pumping you full of untested drugs and sending you to fight barehanded against a robot: I say we should nip it in the bud and send you off for "treatment" now!
>>10350193
>Homelessness can be corrected. Criminality cannot.
>>10350222
>Repeat criminality in spite of reform attempts certainly cannot
Look at those goalposts go!

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-california-pardon/after-dna-test-california-man-freed-from-prison-in-1978-double-murder-idUSKBN1DN1XK
https://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/news/crime_police/article_e83b485e-7409-11e8-8470-93772c74f088.html

Yes I want to know what percentage of the population can't build muscle

It goes against the ethical code.

>>10350245
It wouldn't be a "someone", brainlet. It would be the state, which isn't an individual, and the actions being state sanctioned, much less in response for crimes, disqualify the executions from being murder which is an illicit transgression against human life which nobody here is advocating.

I think a better implementation would be that if the deathrow inmates complete 5 experiments in a row, they get to be set free. And if they end up in jail again, they won't have this option again to prevent exploitation. This will encourage more inmates to willingly sign up with the chance of them being set free, no matter how slim. Also, military experiments can be further incentivised to encourage prisoners to take the risk.
Also, we can extend this to normal prisoners too (as there are very little deathrow prisoners as stated by an anon). Half their prison sentence for every experiment they take part in. This will result in a lot of people willingly going for experimentation, which might lead to many breakthrough discoveries.
Of course all these are strictly voluntary.

>>10350163
Yes. Absolutely this. Opt in human exprrimentation. Pain relievers are offered and the inmate can choose to die whenever he sees fit.


Even for things that dont cause pain this would mean a HUGE leap in medical science.

Being able to test. say... A flu vaccine directly on humans without trials would be huge

>>10350163
Sounds like a good idea. As for your last question with the inmate not actually executed, I see nothing wrong with that because I don't actually believe in punitive justice, but think if someone has committed a crime so extreme that there life no longer has any value, and it is easier/cheaper to kill them rather than locking them up, then it is acceptable, but if they could be given the choice to participate in this then that is obviously preferable, as something productive for society, because I place no value on punishing them.

>>10350163

How many people actually know there was a time when criminals and mentally retarded children were used in scientific experiments? To establish the lowest infectious dose of shigella for instance, o the various scandals of vaccine developement through the 60s to 80s?

Using prisoners for experiments is not novel nor 'groundbreaking' in any way and there was good reason why such practices were stopped and the modern era of scientific ethics especially that regarding the life sciences came about.

>>10350431
It's not ethical

>>10350170
Western values do not "accept" execution either but here we are

>>10350433
And now you are supposed to argue for why that is true so we don't laugh at your stupid Marxist teenage mind

>>10350163
prisons and law should be private

>>10350481
>Marxist
Let me guess, you're a fucking white supremacist?
It's funny how you assholes think any of your fucking culture will exist after the nukes start flying because of the race war you're inevitably gonna start. You are the greatest danger to this planet because of your propensity for anger and violence.

>>10350163
Unironically not science nor math. Leave.

>>10350433
>It's not ethical

>>10350559
A lack of ethics creates a trustless society which eventually collapses into anarchy.

>>10350433
>>10350481
>>10350559
Giving untested drugs to people is akin to torture and thus violates human rights. If you want to dispute human rights, /sci/ is not the place for it.

>>10350585
Yes that's why they make people sign consent forms.
Prisoners sign forms under duress to an extent. But I dunno. Americans have always said that that prisoners are not under duress in their country so they've justified it.

>>10350170
>it probably is likely to be accepted.
>likely
>to
>be
>accepted
They will do anything they want to you even if they gain nothing out of it. They don't care about fake morality and stuff like that, its why muslims are reeducated there and know their place. But if they seen even the slightest profit of torturing you to death they will do it before you can even breath.

>>10350573
The ethics of such a decision would have no influence on the ethics of the lives of people in society.

>>10350215
White doctors experimented on black slaves in the 1800s. One even claimed it was okay because negroes don't feel pain

>>10350585
>Giving untested drugs to people is akin to torture
No it isn't. Faulty analogy
>and thus violates human rights.If you want to dispute human rights, /sci/ is not the place for it.
Human rights have nothing to do with science. They are an abstract, man-made concept, and product of civilization, and if I may add, an extremely recent development ushered in by tepid humanism and liberalism. Make no mistake, I hold they are and a positive influence and useful concept, however, people who violate the human rights of others, have no right to, and from their transgression, have surrendered their own, human rights and therefore, in consequence can and must be used for the betterment of human civilization and knowledge.

>>10350693
Nobody feels pain except me. Le solipsism face

>>10350693
Nobody feels pain except for /pol/tards. Even in that age they were present.

>>10350755
Ethics have everything to do with science.

>>10350685
Yes it would. People would know it's happening

>>10350765
Everything has everything to do with everything when you talk vaguely and don't give examples.

>>10350768
Ethics matter in medicine because it affects how doctors interact with patients. Ethics matter in experimenting because it affects what you do to people and who you do it to.
Prisoners are not a good representation of the public. Many of the men in there have an extra Y chromosome.

>>10350791
>Ethics matter in medicine because it affects how doctors interact with patients.
Still failing to provide concrete examples. You sound like a little kid trying to reason things that are above his head and comes up with this nonsense on the spot.
Everything affects how people interact with everything. You failed to delineate how ethics in particular affect the course of action.
>Ethics matter in experimenting because it affects what you do to people and who you do it to.
Everything matters in experimenting because it affects what you do to people and who you do it to.
Again. Vague. Worthless. Trash-bin catchall sentence that sounds profound to a 14 year old but if examined is vacuous.
>Prisoners are not a good representation of the public. Many of the men in there have an extra Y chromosome.
We were talking about ethics? You cannot substantiate your own worldview, so you attempt to shift the discussion to the population of prisoners being a poor representation of the public which has nothing to do with ethics or morality.

>>10350163
>Should prisoners on death row be used for scientific experimentation?
Only after the world runs out of shitposting incels without empathy to experiment on.

>>10350828
This. We need only "asian"(read pakistan and india) gangs on the streets with full empathy who will groom children and put their flesh into kebabs(it has happened numerous times already).

>>10350828
>I'm so empathetic that I want people whose opinions I disagree with to be experimented on
You're the one without empathy.