/sci/ - Science & Math

It's worse in every way except something about trees or some gay shit

>>10343197
I mean there’s going to be wind and sun for basically forever but there’s a finite source of petroleum and coal.
>>10343250
Seeth harder, petroleum engineer faggot.

>>10343197
Looks cleaner. Ideally it would BE cleaner, at some point.

The disadvantages outweigh this at the moment.

If it gets to the point where they are as economical (or more so) and as reliable/consistent (or more so), the advantages will allow them to start replacing fossil fuels in a serious way.

>>10343197
decentralization

>>10343265
fair enough for petroleum and coal, but what about uranium?

>Looks cleaner. Ideally it would BE cleaner, at some point.

It seems cleaner on paper but the manufacture of solar cells and batteries uses toxic polluting heavy metals

This 'if' they get economical uncertainty is after we have already thrown billions and billions in subsidies and investment into solar and wind when there is a safe 1GW Gen IV Nuclear reactor being built right now in china that solves the safety issue and is most importantly zero emissions, which can be built right NOW.

>>10343197
advantages: clean, subsidized by the government, solar is becoming cheaper, easier to build near communities (no one wants a coal plant in their neighborhood) which already have a lot of electric infrastructure.
disadvantages:
solar and wind are erratic, requiring batteries which are expensive due to insufficient advances in battery technology.

It's hard to find a non-biased source on this issue. Since the petrochem industry is the status quo, they have no incentive to fund studies that could potentially harm their market share. Therefore most studies (especially the ones you find on the first page of Google) are funded by pro-renewable sources such as the one shown here: https://energyinnovation.org/2018/01/22/renewable-energy-levelized-cost-of-energy-already-cheaper-than-fossil-fuels-and-prices-keep-plunging/
>>10343273
good point, solar can be effectively pursued at a smaller scale by municipalities while large plants can't.

>>10343197
There are none for general use - maybe solar is more viable for spacecraft on long-distance journey's than nuclear

Nuclear is by far the most resource and cost efficient way to generate electricity

>>10343273
the government handles all the roads. should we decentralize our highways?
decentralization doesn't always mean it's good - particularly when the cost becomes cheaper when there is fewer firms producing.

>>10343307
millions of people die because of cars every day

>>10343287
>fair enough for petroleum and coal, but what about uranium?
You don't have to dig up sunlight and wind from under the ground.

>>10343318
random factoid, but thanks!
millions of people die of heart failure every day.

>>10343197
free fuel

>>10343307
No but pricing road-use would be an efficient way to relieve stress on the transportation system and encourage people to use public transport

We have a private highway in here in Toronto and its great to cruise along without any plebs in your way

>>10343324
>pricing road-use
sure, particularly if there is anything "free" being offered. people will overuse that resource. yet in general we pay for our roads, anon.
that's not what I'm talking about here. i'm talking about trying to organize many businesses to link up their own roads to other roads, and the toll booths needed for switching lanes to other roadways, and the costs associated getting that all to work - it doesn't make sense theoretically, and it doesn't make sense empirically. the power companies run in a similar fashion and is the reason why they are heavily regulated.

>>10343341
>i'm talking about trying to organize many businesses to link up their own roads to other roads, and the toll booths needed for switching lanes to other roadways, and the costs associated getting that all to work - it doesn't make sense theoretically, and it doesn't make sense empirically.
That's how the first modern road-network was built in England though. The turnpike system was a series of nominally public sections of roads managed by private companies (turnpike trusts) that collected a fee whenever people moved from turnpike to turnpike. All the cash that came in from that system funded the development of a robust road network that increased the average speed of transportation dramatically.

>>10343298
>subsidized by the government

paid by your taxes mind you

>>10343319
But The Sun doesn't always shine and the Wind never always blows, i don't see your point?

>>10343197
I can tell you a disadvantage. It's fucking boring.

>>10343353
>The turnpike system
Was inefficient. just because you might see an improvement in the average speed, doesn't make this cost-effective. There is a reason why the British don't run on this system that was created in the 1800's

>>10343197
The mayor advantage is economic.
Meanwhile it's much cheaper to build and run wind turbines and solar plants. Only gas can compete. And costs for wind and solar keep falling.
Wind and solar can also be build much faster.
It's more popular, this is really important if you actually want to build a plant somewhere.
You don't need fuel. This is a huge advantage if you need to power isolated places like remote islands.

>>10343401
The U.S. spends $26 billion annually subsidizing fossil fuels.

... on top of that, the trillions of dollars wasted and thousands of lives lost in Iraq Wars I & II.

The EROEI of fossil fuels is falling

>>10343486
>Was inefficient.
Incorrect, you can't just make things up and expect people to believe them without evidence. We have examples of direct investment by central planners (both the system it replaced and the French road network) and they were expensive and delivered a shitty infrastructure system.
>just because you might see an improvement in the average speed, doesn't make this cost-effective. There is a reason why the British don't run on this system that was created in the 1800's
Britain is becoming more and more of a managerial state like it was under feudalism and is regressing so that's not surprising.

>>10343486
Correct.

>>10345019
Incorrect, you've just made some stuff up without providing evidence.

>>10345089
Lucky for you the book I got this info from is at my second home.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pursuit_of_Glory

You may not like it but its true; Private business revolutionized transportation including not just turnpikes but also barge and later steam operators on canal projects and even railroads all the way into the late 19th century.

>>10345100
Try not to get too obsessed with single history books, they rarely give a complete picture on their own. Looks interesting though for secondary literature,

Solar is the only one that makes sense, but we need worthwhile storage technologies first.

>>10343197
Decentralization of the power grid. You should also check out biogas methane.


>>10343307
Decentralization increases stabilization of the power grid; preventing brownouts and power outages.