/sci/ - Science & Math

>an engine requires all pistons to be running at a perfect timing in order to function
>therefore it would be impossible to build an engine unless all of the pieces appeared in-place instantly
???

>>10281852
\thread

>>10281860
So you're saying an intelligent designer made the engine?

i mean the obvious answer is here >>10281862

to spell it out, all those subsystems working together give us the sight that we have now. it's not like all 40 of those are required for us to see at all. the subsystems evolved/developed over time to 'improve' our sight with respect to survivability

>>10281862
Are there any examples of each step?

This stuff was answered years ago.

>logically

>>10281873
Flatworms and jellyfish have A and B. Nautilus have C, off the top of my head

>>10281873
A similar system evolved in a different way and with different subsystems in cephalopods.

You can see a kind of proto eye structure in bobtail squid where they store their bioluminescent bacteria.

Lizards have a kind of third eye that's like a simple eye (parietal eye). Lampreys have this and another one. Hagfish have very basic visual systems.

>>10281876
Hagfish have D but may be degenerative, but it makes no real difference.

>>10281852
>logically...

>>10281852
could you fuck off you retarded cunt

>>10281873
jellyfish

>>10281852
Yep but it would start with being able to tell bright from dark, then a pinhole lens appears allowing animals to form images, then more receptors, then different wavelengths would set off different receptors. Over hundreds of millions of years this progress was bound to happen.

And it happened in the sea, we know this because the visible spectrum propagates the most in water so that's where the eye developed. If it was meant for us we'd have a wider visible spectrum.

>>10281862
makes no sense. Why would photosensitive anything appear, and why would it randomly have nerve connections, and why would those nerves lead to a control center?

>>10282335
>and why would it randomly have nerve connections, and why would those nerves lead to a control center?
You're getting way ahead of yourself here, nerves and a centralized system of nerves happened later than photo sensitivity.

>Why would photosensitive anything appear
Being able to see gives a really big advantage to predators, in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king. Then in order to evade those predators, knowing at least when it's light out is useful.

Photo sensitivity is much older than that though, it's in single celled organisms. Reasons are probably things like UV is pretty harmful, heat makes biochemical stuff go faster until its too hot then its harmful, and some even use the power of the sun to make energy.

>>10281852
Darwin himself mentioned in Origin of Species a hypothetical process in which sight could've evolved. Later studies and research have concluded that he was mostly accurate. Even if evolution is junk science, eye sight is not a sign of it. You're a retard, stop it.

>>10282354
>evolution is junk science

>>10281862
>distinct lense develops
From what?

>>10281873
No, there is no example for the development of the aqueous humor between the lense and the cornea. Just looking at it, something intelligent designed it. DNA is also an emergent property of intelligence.

>>10281852
We would not be blind, we would just see in a different way

>>10282442
Do you not understand what "even if" means in this context, you fucking retard?

>>10282335
So one possibility is that chemoreceptor cells could express a light sensitive protein. So if you already have a dedicated chemoreceptor organ for finding food, you can easily get an eye for moving toward or away from light. In addition, these light sensitive cells don't have to connect to a control center they can connect directly to muscles like in jellyfish. Light sensitive proteins could have first evolved to synchronize the circadian rhythms with the sun/moon or to move vaguely toward light.

>>10282539
Whoops I misread it

>>10281852
https://youtu.be/YT1vXXMsYak?t=24m

>>10281873
yes, there are examples of literally every single step shown

>>10282527
>Just looking at it, something intelligent designed it.

Just looking at it, it was not designed by anything intelligent.

See how fun making bare assertions is?

>>10282335
Gee, why could being able to see be useful? Goddamn you trolls are funny.

Eyespots predate nervous systems.

>intelligent design
Yeah I’m glad God intelligently designed us to have appendices, and gave men nipples. Great choices from the omniscient creator.

Is evolution the brainlet filter?

>>10281852
Except that is total nonsense.

Each, as it appeared, had to serve some purpose that made the organism possessing it slightly more likely to survive and reproduce, for each of them to be retained and passed along until the next one showed up.

>>10282527
>DNA is also an emergent property of intelligence.

>>10283023
Male nipples make perfect sense... they break up the monotony between the male navel and Adam's apple. And they have no down-side, so there is no pressure for them to be done away with.

>>10283070
I'm glad that they conveniently left out the fact that the optic nerve covers the retina, and punches a hole through it.

>>10281852
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_the_eye

>>10283080
>they have no down-side
There’s no reason ”””God””” would put them there in the first place apart from his apparent aesthetic taste that he conveniently shares with you. I see you also conveniently ignored the appendix.

>>10283113
I didn't have a semi-clever quip about the appendix. You may be assuming that I am taking this troll thread more seriously than I am.

>>10283113
Many men enjoy having their partner play with their nipples during sex. Maybe He just wants folks to have a pleasant sexy fun time.

>>10283116
>lol I was just pretending to be retarded

>>10283113
We have the same aesthetic tastes as God, because God made us to have the same taste as him

Can you imagine if God liked Beethoven, and all humans liked heavy metal? He'd be pissed. Fucking dumbass

>>10283113
Also, the appendix looks cool from the inside.
It balances the heavy mass of the large intestine with the light complementary colors of the abdominal wall.

If you were omnivisional God and could see your own guts at all times, you'd realize this. Fucking. Dumbass.

>>10283126
>lol I was just pretending to not be retarded

>>10283067
It makes me sad that the general public is so retarded that even something as simple as evolution could be a brainlet filter

>>10283176
still better than flat earth

>>10282347
That doesn't address why it would appear, but why it would stick around. The photosensitive cells would appear to track light for energy.

>>10283176
Oh come on cheer up. How about we convince people yogurt is alive tomorrow.

>>10283189
It appeared because it was a chance that occurred in the probability space that happened to be beneficial.

>>10283198
Yogurt is alive today bro.

>>10283209
right, it has a consciousness, yogurt should have legal rights as a living being

>>10283198

>>10283209

Yogurt is fucking immortal. And it hates us.

>>10281852
>babby OP can't into evolution
are you a godfag or somesuch shit? if so please leave

>>10283113
>””God””

>>10283067
Evolution, free will, and pic related

>>10283217
>>10283223
I think he meant that it's full of live bacteria, alive != self aware

>>10283281
1/3, unironically

>>10281852
>Ignores the stages of proto eyes and photo detectors that have evolved over millions of years

>>10283023
Male nipples are for women to give you hickies where they can't be seen. Truly our creator is a magnificent one.

The interesting thing about watching embryo development in the zebrafish model is that the Retina is the first structure that really appears.

It is as if the rest of the fish grows out from the eyeball

Reminds me what I heard once about the yes. They are the visible part of your brain

>>10283023
also he made a not-insignificant fraction of humans homosexual despite getting incredibly buttfrustrated at the idea of humans gaying it up together
and he made us expel the entire fucking lining of our uterus every menstrual cycle for no good reason, unlike every other mammal on earth

Why would all 40 systems need to be developed at once?

What are those 40 systems?

I want to know all 40 subsystems.
If anyone can't tell me all what all 40 subsystems are, I'm gunna be happy.

>>10283176
The basic survival of the fittest mechanics are easy to understand but the evolution rabbit hole goes deep with some counterintuitive shit.

>>10281852
What the fuck is this bullshit supposed to mean

>>10283407
why, it's clearly 50%

>>10281852
Ah, yes. We went from no vision at all instantly to perfect 20/20 color vision we have now. No intermediates.

>>10282335
>makes no sense. Why would photosensitive anything appear
because there was light dummy

>>10283442
kekd

>>10282335
So that organisms in the oceans that lived off of light could move toward said light

>>10283407
Surely you mean 2/3

>>10283113
>I see you also conveniently ignored the appendix.
The appendix is a bacteria trap in your guts so that even if you blow out your shit hole after a nasty bout of dysentery the flora in your guts can still replenish.

>>10281876
>>10281871
So simpler lifeforms have simple eyes, complex lifeforms have really complex eyes
Profound stuff here

>>10281852
It could’ve started as a simple system that got complex over time...