/sci/ - Science & Math

>>10261543
each planet will have a local time, but eventually we would develop a universal time

>>10261543
Clearly local time would be much more pragmatic and adaptive for colonizers.
Converting between them shouldn't be too hard.


>>10261792
Already exists, unix time

>>10261543
Should it start with year 1 though? What about the probes before? I think year 1 on Mars should start when unix epoch started - 1970 in Earth years.

>>10261543
I think it should use the Holocene Calendar, so it'd be 12019 if we colonized it this year. New month names though.

>>10261543
>>10261834
>>10261841
>>10261864
What's Earths REAL year?

>>10261883
>2019 year of our black science man
>STILL attempting to invoke a unique universal frame

Anon, stop.

>>10261543
Year 0 AC (After Colonization).

>>10261543
>implying the colonists would abandon Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ

The real question is how would we tax them? If you got to live on mars tax free everyone would go there and it would become a tax haven. If you tax them too much they could submit a Declaration of Independence like the US of A and then you’ve got yourself an interplanetary war on your hands...

>>10261920
Just don’t give them a HOLMES-IV and we’ll be good

>>10261920
Well then I guess we better develop an AI to come up with something and basically control the economy of Mars.

>>10261543
>Would we use Earths year even though it wouldn't make any sense to do so?
What would you need a martian year for, practically speaking?
Its not like you've got to coordinate your harvest with the first frost or any other martian season makes a difference when you're living in domes and bunkers in controlled environment.
If you were living on the surface unprotected it might be more practical.
For the short term assume they'd still maintain the "standard year" with earth, maybe start counting "Mission Year X"

A Martian year is like twice an earth year right? So the date there is July 1009.

>>10261920
Making Mars a tax haven would unironically be one of the most successful drivers of growth

>>10262933
Hence why it will be regulated to death even if the effort is privately funded.

>>10261920
>The real question is how would we tax them?
Why would you tax them? A soverign nation cannot claim space clay. It would also cost more to collect and enforce taxes then you would get back from it.
The reason the US declared independence wasn't because they were being taxed, but that they had no representation in the political body of the british empire.
Also the taxes they were being asked to pay was to offset the Americans literally starting the seven years war between the French and UK.
A self sufficient martian colony would be an independent political body for no other reason than a practical one.
What are you going to do, elect a representative to go back to earth and vote on immigration and land use reform that doesn't have anything to do with them?
Also, lets just assume this colony does decide to not pay space tax, what are you going to do about it? Send an invasion fleet to invade your colony and bring all those guilty of tax evasion back to earth to stand trial?

We'd start with year 0 plebs

>mars is made a tax haven
>completely an-cap society dependant on corporations for bulk supplies
>residents are a mix of intelligent scientists/engineers and people who had nothing to lose

This is like a hellfire mix for some sort of neo-austrialian postmodern art project of a society

Sign me the fuck up, when everything inevitably collapses I'll swoop in and level Mars up to feudalism, thus securing my bloodline for eternity.

>>10261543
Stardate

>>10261543
>2150
>Can make fuel and steel foundries to manufacture rockets on Mars.
>Next stop, the whole solar system.
So we might as well start as soon as possible.

Mars and Earth war inevitable

>>10261920
hopefully mars becomes an independent socialist nation and can be free from this shit

>>10263510
>Socialist nation
>Free of taxes

>>10262970
>A soverign nation cannot claim space clay.
Lmao you do realize that all those happy clappy treaties are going right out the airlock.

>>10261543
If humans ever colonize mars the colonists will be living underground or in inside radiation shielded bases the actual position of mars in relation to the sun would be completely irrelevant to them with only the position of mars in relation to earth mattering for reasons of potential interplanetary travel.
Martian colonists would just go by the earth calendar.

Mars is flat mate.

>>10263510
you commie fucks aren't going to get anything more than a free helicopter ride

>>10263184
>implying it will take over a fucking century
Industrial and automation technology has improved a fair fucking bit in the past 100 years, and is bound to improve more so
Mars will be a mostly automated forge world in short order, with the only bottleneck being people and places to sell the shit to

>>10261543
I don't see a sense to colonize Mars.
There is absolutly nothing there and why the fuck would anybody like to life there?

Probably colonize the sea before.

>>10264222
To get away from all the globohomo monoculture of Earth. Anywhere at sea you're going to have some country's navy getting up your ass.

>>10263928 gotta ask Mat Damian

>>10263166
>a unit is 8 hours, 45 minutes, 36 seconds
Why not use something that‘s just as arbitrary but actually manageable by human beings in every day life?

>>10262970
>A self sufficient martian colony would be an independent political body for no other reason than a practical one.
It will not be independent for no other reason than money.

>What are you going to do, elect a representative to go back to earth and vote on immigration and land use reform that doesn't have anything to do with them?
Representation doesn't always need to be physical.

>Also, lets just assume this colony does decide to not pay space tax, what are you going to do about it? Send an invasion fleet to invade your colony and bring all those guilty of tax evasion back to earth to stand trial?
The law enforcement on Mars would obviously be responsible for sending them back to Earth. Assuming colonization is actually a profitable tactic you can also assume transportation (especially of people) between planets isn't a determining cost. If you're arguing the case where no one pays taxes (meaning law enforcement on Mars won't help) you just cut off their resources until they agree to keep paying taxes.

>>10261543
Does Mars even have seasons? So keeping track of months, seasons and years might be pointless anyway.

>>10261543
We'll keep using AD/CE until our civilization gets wrecked.

>>10264233
>country's navy getting up your ass
Not, if your base is located on international waters.

And before we colonize the Mars, we should make tests in the desert, Antarctic or even at the moon.

10264289
you exposed yourself too early

>>10263649
>going right out the airlock
kek can’t stop laughing

>>10261912
this

>>10264289
The same international waters will prevent you claiming any sovereignty. No country will recognize your claims.

>>10262915
>What would you need a martian year for, practically speaking?

yeah, why would anyone need to ever keep track of the time, it's not like the position of the planet around the Sun could affect stuff like communication with Earth, transfer windows or weather, could it ?

>>10264284
>Does Mars even have seasons

yes, it does

Even if people spend most of their time underground, they will :

- use solar power (at the beginning for sure, who knows what happens later)
- move around the surface
- mine resources
- build stuff

all fo the above are impacted by the day-night cycle and by the temperature and weather variations throughout the Martian seasons, such as the melting/freezing of the ice caps and other quite dramatic phenomenae, such as this:

>During the southern hemisphere spring, solar heating of dry ice deposits at the south pole leads in places to accumulation of pressurized CO2 gas below the surface of the semitransparent ice, warmed by absorption of radiation by the darker substrate. After attaining the necessary pressure, the gas bursts through the ice in geyser-like plumes


As for the year count - the most reasonable idea is to set Year 1 (or Year 0) as 1610 - this is when Mars has been observed by Gallileo for the first time, so there are no significant events to refer to in everyday life that happened before that (scientists could use a different timekeeping method, just like they do here on Earth with the Astronomical Calendar in astronomy and Years Before Present in geology).

>>10265487
>yeah, why would anyone need to ever keep track of the time, it's not like the position of the planet around the Sun could affect stuff like communication with Earth, transfer windows
These are not valid reasons for a Martian year. Timing for communication and transfers have as much to do with Earth's position as Mars'. Using a Martian year doesn't help with that.
>>10261920
What Earth money are they making and how? What are the exporting to interact with the Earth's economy?
If you can answer that, then you can answer when, how and if you can tax them.

>>10265917
>What are the exporting to interact with the Earth's economy?
Much of what we export today is not physical commodities or products. They're services or abstract ideas. This isn't like a civ game. And even places that have a hard time with low transaction costs for trade like Australia and New Zealand do trade and do well. One thing to bear in mind is that it'll be cheaper for them to send us physical stuff than the other way round.

>>10261543
>colonize Mars

JELLO BABIES!
JELLO BABIES!
JELLO BABIES!

>>10265177
>No country will recognize your claims.
>"Oh no! Other countries won't recognize that the Mars colony is its own nation."
>"The nation that is 33.9 million miles from Earth."
>"What can we ever do!?"

>>10267059
Launch meteors at earth and then attack with mobile suits.

>>10267087
The sarcastic point being made is there you wouldn't need to do anything because no one can reach you in a manner which would be meaningful in any way. Because, by the time such a statement would be made to declare independence it would mean Mars has a self-sustaining population that no longer needs supplies from Earth.

>>10262960
And who will enforce it?

>>10267112
USA

>>10267059
I was talking to the Venus project dweeb who wants to colonize the oceans and build floating cities.

>>10261792
>monkey butler

>>10267059
I'll fly my space ship over there poke holes in some of your habs with a laser until you pay your taxes, spacer scum.

>>10261912
JUST WILD BEAT

>>10267617
This. The Earth v Mars war of independence would be beautiful

>>10267617
>the habs are made of highly polished stainless steel and reflects your laser right back at you

>>10269665
*nukes your oxygen supply*
Nothin personnel kid

>>10264265
A unit is 10^-3 year

Mars does not exist. Earth is flat. Space is not real. Space travel is impossible. NASA is fake.

>>10269884
NASA is real. Who do you think develops the fake footage of the "moon landing"?

>>10269665
Fine we'll just drop some steel rods then. Filthy dusters think they can escape the long arm of the Lords of Earth.

I'd be more worried about the outer colonies.
Oh wait hang on...
*ahem* FUCK INNIES

>>10269918
NASA hired Stanley Kubrick to fake the moon landing but his attention to detail was so exacting that he insisted on filming on location on the moon.

But would they count how old they are with Mars years or Earth years?

>>10261864
>Holocene Calendar

>>10271925
it's less deceptive than the gregorian calendar