/sci/ - Science & Math

>>10229319
>>>/adv/

>>10229319

Get a degree in engineering, just shit through it... Get a job then go back in university for a math major, that's what I'm doing but i also like engineering so idk.

Or you can do both majors at the same time but this takes so much energy and money

>>10229319
at least it's not the other way around

>>10229319
>>Help
Suck it up. You're being shit at an engineering undergrad degree. After you graduate, there's plenty of modestly-paid monkey engineering jobs you can go for.

>>10229319
>no jobs for math degree
Wut

>>10230036
One of the highest paying undergrad degrees out of the uni you neet

>>10229319
Besides Research ...

Mathematicians can work in Data Science (Statistics+CompSci)

Data Science is in high demand right now, with plenty of jobs available in Industry.

>>10229319
You can also work in Applied Math collaborating with scientists & engineers

In fields such as PDEs, Numerical Analysis, Signal Processing, Control Theory, Optimisation, Modelling, Cryptography, Mathematical physics etc

>>10230303
CS is the highest paying BSc degree

>>10230356
>asks professor for applications multiple times per lecture

I'm fucking seething.

>>10230366
CS is in a bubble that will pop as the third world has caught on and is flooding in to cover that demand.

>>10229319
>no jobs

You can get any code monkey job with any STEM degree including math.

>>10230366 >>10230371
>CS is in a bubble that will pop as the third world has caught on and is flooding
3rd worlders from a [certain country] famous for their curry & poor sanitation

>>10230356
Needs more chegg on the right

>>10230303
does it require a phd? and it's a 6 figure job?

>>10230356
>'naruto runs' to next class
lmao

Do a math degree

Become an Actuary

>>10229319
Actuary or financial math

>>10229319
>>dont want to get degree in math because no jobs
>Help
Wrong

>>10232156
>London banking

Lol, they've been playing the unsustainable short game of disinvesting in future growth in exchange for short term wealth control and profits.

I can't wait for Frankfurt to reinstate tariffs on London firms. Not even the GDP of the entire commonwealth will be able to bail them out this time. UK banking deserves to die for underpaying everyone and fucking over the youth with inflated housing. Not to mention mixing in third world politics and stoking anti-white racism.

Seeing the tears of London bankers drenching the media has been orgasmic this year.

>only well paid, employable field of math is statistics
>it's not as interesting as pure math
Fuck

>>10229319
>Help
Helium tank + mask.

>>10233382
Where could I go to learn more about what these bankers have been doing and how it's affected British society? What would I need to understand in order to see what you see?

>>10233581
You won't be able to read much because most real media outlets like Bloomberg etc don't really see a problem with what they are doing at all. For the same reason there wasn't much media coverage of the 2008 housing crises, even though many people saw warning signs. People see short term profiteers as "winners" and those who risk and lose or try to actually build up their countries are "losers". Additionally in these people's minds all academics, scientists, engineers and researchers are losers period. They can only escape their loser status when they sell a silicon valley startups (which most STEM professionals actually don't care about doing).

Where you will find information about the impact is from forums of professional societies (including prominent ones) on LinkedIn etc. Personally I learned a lot about what they are doing from people who were complaining about the IChemE using similar tactics. But for example Bloomberg will also occasionally have opinion pieces hinting towards this. For example there was one excellent piece where they talked about the fact that most institutes in Wallstreet and London do no produce anything at all; they are all about wealth control. Most (60%) employees surveyed say their jobs do not have any meaning. They are basically just Clerks and they wait for their CEOs and other sharks to wrest wealth from the productive companies and then control it.

In short UK banks cheat (in most countries they are disinvested in it is because the banking regulations are too tight for them to work around) and strip other companies and then control the liquidated wealth to ensure profits.

[cont.]

>>10233646
>>10233581
An example of this is a typical auditing exercise: they go in and strip down maintenance, strip all R&D down, strip engineering down (often Western engineers quit after and lower paid/underqualified third worlders are hired in place because they want first world visas/citizenship). The result is a massive increase in profits, this is paid out as bonusses to CEOs and other higher management. People give themselves a pat on the back and the company predictably dies in 5 years. This has lead to many UK manufacturing and mining industries going extinct. Remember that many of the biggest companies are publicly traded. You often do not notice when they shrink. They stagnate to only profit off current operations until they can't maintain that anymore.

It is not individuals doing any of this, it is the culture of the finacial sector in UK.

This would all have been fine. What used to happen is that these companies die and new market gaps open up for young companies. But in modern times the wealth stripped is controlled by bankers who keep investing in some stupid shit that they can control but does not benefit society (a lot of it is housing bubbles which is part of the reason young people can't afford to buy homes anymore). There is virtually no investment for new companies. When an important enough company or bank is close they death they just use tax money to bail them out. The same cunts that fucked everything up keeps their cushy salary inflated jobs then pay out bonusses again as soon as things get better. Their survival depends on using income and corporate tax from the professionals and companies that they are fucking over.

[cont]

>>10233648
>>10233646
>>10233581
Everyone has been saying this is unsustainable for years, but it takes an economic crisis for people to talk about it again. Recently Mark Carney (Bank of England) or someone from BoE was whining in the media again about how BREXIT is going to lose them their deals with Europe (basically what enables them to fuck up continental companies like they fucked up our UK ones) and he was actually talking about how it it will be so "bad" because the housing price in London will drop by 30%. I mean fucking hell imagine actually being able to buy a home in London? Yes, a bunch of retired people using old money to buy 100 property morgages will suffer, but will be even worse off if we can't restimulate the economy. Besides the youth should be able to at least get reasonable rates on rent.

On top of this they have very scummy PR which deepens social divisions as well as casuing other political issues and civil wars. If you want to see what their scummy PR firms do google Bell Pottinger which is one of the few that has been caught. To sum up the whole scandal; basically all the "whites are evil" propaganda is spread mostly by white UK firms. Many civil wars in the third today can be traced back to UK firms.

>>10233646
>>10233648
>>10233649
Thank you. You say it's publicly talked about but I suppose it's not actually addressed because of links between those who profit the most and people in government? I thought at first that this was something that got you suicided for talking about but is the problem simply that the information isn't effectively disseminated?

What’s best for finding work in a bank, a grad degree in probability theory or in statistics?

>>10233659
Nothing they're doing is illegal and in most people's eyes not even despicable.

It's the same atmosphere as 2007-2008. People realize something fucked up is happening, but who can you actually blame or regulate? Smart people talk about it and those with money realize they can cash in by taking out several mortages and controlling property developments as long as you get out before the bubble bursts, but alternatively if you have the wealth to ride it out even better.

The only people really getting fucked over is young professionals. Basically because they stripped the posts, they can afford to offer pennies for young career engineering and researcher positons (also law and other fields) because the job market is so narrow.

Then again most UK engineers just leave for greener fields in America to get 100k+ software dev jobs so really only Indians are getting fucked over (again).

If you took my posts and showed it to a 55 year old London banker he will just say "so what" and then tell you to stop whining while he pretends he started out in the same untenable economic conditions we did.

>>10233670
Neither. Don't do quant. Study business management, gym enough and be 6'2" born into a rich family.

>>10233684
Legality is irrelevant, it's immoral and harmful to society. I suppose I don't know enough to properly critisize but it seems like the sort of thing that should be addressed and prevented if it's screwing us all. Brain drain should be taken more seriously, but I suppose it doesn't matter for cosmopolitan types.

>>10233688
why did you reflexively give /fit/ advice at the end? is this what happens when secretly craving frat life subsumes all other drives in your being?

>>10233706
It was a shorthand of what I was really saying: your family connections and your attitude is more important to gaining a high salary than your skillset.

In the banking world being an asshole is equated with good management skills. No one cares if you have employee turnover or if you're actually productive.

My uncle is running a 20mil/year project and has a new batch of Indian programmers every year. He actually brags about how little he pays them and how he manipulates them with their visa requirements etc. His project was 5 years behind schedule when he got another promotion.

>>10233688
>Don't do quant. Study business & gym
/fit/ brainlet detected

>>10233688
I want to do quant though. I’m a math major with excellent grades.

>>10233728
I'm not /fit/ myself. I'm being bitter.

UK still has the mindset that "managers" are all Captain Kirk's deserving of 80k starting salaries while all technical people should be happy with their 20k pennance regardless of whether they're Oxbridge PhD grads or earned a bachelors in information technology from Mumbai TU.


If you want to be respected for your degree at all stay as far away from the banking sector as possible. I would recommend BP etc if you want to work for British companies.

>>10233729
Quant doesn't pay what it did in the 2000s just so you know.

But good luck to you Anon, you should take functional analysis at postgrad level as well as another stochastic PDE and optimization course. Ideally some kind of operations research work too. Statistics is more important than probability, but both are applied at a much more elementary level than you probably think.

>>10229319
A degree in math gets 300k srtating u nigger

>>10229319
Get dwgree in Eng, and be Mathematical self-learner

>>10233712
That makes no sense. Is it all just going through the motions, doesn't producing something actually matter?

>>10233778
For making money it obviously doesn't matter. UK literally markets itself as a "service industry".

Companies that actually produce things (silicon valley, pharma, automobil, petroleum etc) will always be the biggest players by far though.

>>10233736
What are the salaries currently like in quant? Isn’t it still the highest paid sector for mathematicians? I’m speaking in general, not for any country in particular.

Bump

>>10233852
$125,000 at entry level, $250,000 or more with experience

according to:
>https://www.investopedia.com/articles/financialcareers/08/quants-quantitative-analyst.asp
>https://www.quantinsti.com/blog/salary-quants-really-earn

>>10233852
You have to take into account the hours worked, location, and the oppotunity cost of the time you'll be getting for your Phd. Most quants are also from target schools.

>>10233738
That is for math PhDs.

>>10233852
It's this >>10235571 but they work you to the bone, find ways against screwing you out of OT and your mid career isn't half of what it used to be.

>>10233648
>This would all have been fine. What used to happen is that these companies die and new market gaps open up for young companies. But in modern times the wealth stripped is controlled by bankers who keep investing in some stupid shit that they can control but does not benefit society (a lot of it is housing bubbles which is part of the reason young people can't afford to buy homes anymore). There is virtually no investment for new companies.
TE did a feature about lack of competition recently, but they didn't go as far as pointing fingers for it.

>>10235571
>>10235591
>>10235883
It's pretty much the only job in that salary range for mathematicians/statisticians though. Even the meme data science and ML pros are far from earning as much, except a minority in the Silicon Valley.

don't do math. data science requires AT LEAST a masters nowadays. its been three years since i graduated with my BSc and i got about 8 interviews and was turned down for all of them. cant afford to do more school currently, so im nearly homeless and do precarious, shit jobs to make ends meet.

i just wanna go back to school and do more pure math, though.

>>10229319
Why not just study statistics?

>>10229319
>shit at engineering, good at math
how is it even possible

>>10236174
Not him but I'm pretty bad at physics yet naturally good at math. I guess it's because I'm comfortable with abstraction and mathematical reasoning, but I'm not good at practical reasoning.

>>10229319
They are both good degrees. Also note being 'good' at something is vastly different at high school level than university level. Both choices will get you an above average starting job - just choose the one you think will interest you more. You should not minmax your career/education right now to try to get a 6 fig grad salary - you can do a masters if you want to specialize.

>>10236174 Not OP or >>10236174. but I want to share my opinion:

I hate labs or anything related to DIY skills. Because I suck at it.

I'm a undergrad.

I can't handle DIY tools used in MechE, CivilE, EE such as screwdriver, pliers, wrenches, hammers, solder, saws...

I often broke glassware used in Chemistry & Bio labs, so I'll never become Chemist, Biologist or Medic.
I would never be a Surgeon, because my poor motor coordination kill people Surgery.

I suck at Social Skills & Sports as a typical autistic Sperglord, so business & normie humanities is out of the question.

I excel at math, though. I'm always top of class in math. OP probably in the same situation.

>>10236174 Not OP or >>10236174. but I want to share my opinion:
I hate labs or anything related to DIY skills. Because I suck at it.

I can't handle DIY tools used in MechE, CivilE, EE such as screwdriver, pliers, wrenches, hammers, solder, saws...
I often broke glassware used in Chemistry & Bio labs, so I'll never become Chemist, Biologist or Medic.
I would never be a Surgeon, because my poor motor coordination kill people Surgery.
I suck at Social Skills & Sports as a typical autistic Sperglord, so business & normie humanities is out of the question.
I excel at math, though. I'm always top of class in math. OP is probably in the same situation.

>>10236174 Not OP or >>10236174. but I want to share my opinion:
I hate labs or anything related to DIY skills. Because I suck at it.

I can't handle DIY tools used in MechE, CivilE, EE such as screwdriver, pliers, wrenches, hammers, solder, saws...
I often broke glassware used in Chemistry & Bio labs, so I would never become Chemist, Biologist or Medic.
I would never become a Surgeon, because my poor motor coordination would kill people in Surgeries.
I suck at Social Skills & Sports as a typical autistic Sperglord, so business & normie humanities is out of the question.
I excel at math, though. I'm always top of class in math. OP is probably in the same situation.

>>10236110
It's not. National lab scientists an academics earn about the same if you can wait 10 more years.

>>10236756
In the US maybe, definitely not in Europe. Never heard of mathematicians and statisticians making decent money here.

>>10236809
No one makes money in Europe.

>>10236894
Finance guys do.

>>10233382
>>10233646
>>10233648
>>10233649
Jesus Christ, when will this hellish ride end?

>>10233852

There is only one salary for a quant, usually $75-125k, the idea is your strategy becomes successfull and you get paid a bonus, in the multi millions. Nobody cares about the base salary, it's all about the bonus. This is how most of those companies work, so expect $75k starting (unless you were hand picked from Ivy League school or Cambridge), but also expect significant bonus on anything you successfully do. If it turns out you aren't super successful you can always stick around and become 'senior quant leader' or something and make $250k just managing all the Ivy Leaguers who parachute in for only a few years.

One of the best ways to get hired by these places is develop a strategy and try it out small scale by yourself. If it is at all similar to what they are doing, expect a generous offering for figuring out their arbitrage strategy or whatever meaning they find out who you are and come to recruit you directly.

If you aren't PhD level you can still work a trading desk, for large bonuses assuming you have the ability to calculate probabilities in your head on command. So learn everything there is to know about probability at the undergrad level, and pick up some 'mental math tricks' book and you can start at the trading desk there, pay your way through P/T school to take more advanced math, end up on the Quant floor.

>>10236990
Street fighting maths, and presh talwalkers mental math tricks are great ones. People think you are so smart if you can do those tricks.

>>10236942
They all move to successful countries, like Singapore and Hong Kong.

>>10236990
Interesting, never heard of Pajeet Talwakers book but it looks pretty good for this. I had an Indian substitute teacher once for Math 10, and he essentially taught us a bunch of these mental tricks to spot patterns since much of India is poor as fuck and students need short cuts when they're working with just a chalk tablet (can't even afford paper). Meanwhile our basic math courses are brainlet tier on cruise control.

>>10237133
Interesting, never heard of Pajeet Talwakers book but it looks pretty good for this. I had an Indian substitute teacher once for Math 10, and he essentially taught us a bunch of these mental tricks to spot patterns since much of India is poor as fuck and students need short cuts when they're working with just a chalk tablet (can't even afford paper). Meanwhile our basic math courses are brainlet tier on cruise control.

Anyway people can look up the positions here as an example (there's hundreds of these companies) https://www.janestreet.com/join-jane-street/open-positions/ and look at Trading Desk Operations. Glassdoor will have all their interview questions, it's mental math ability. Somehow get into Quantitative Trader team and if your team makes 10 million dollars expect a million dollar bonus each that year. That's why they are always hiring, a successful Quant stays one year or two, cashes out their millions and then is targeted by private hedge funds where they make multi millions or they just retire never to work again and write books on Quant trading.

>>10237180
I don’t get the difference between what you do at a trading desk and what a conventional quant researcher does. Aren’t traders just quants nowadays? I thought all trading was automated.

Do math, and then go for engineering certs later on? That's a route I might be headed on myself.

>>10236990
None of that will actually work lol.

>>10237290
Trading is for glue eating "guessers" and others who do grunt trading while quant is people developing predictive models and making real money with autotrading etc.

>>10237397
>That's a route I might be headed on myself.

Maybe do your research first because there's no such thing as engineering "certs" unless you're planning on picking up another bachelors. There are technical and technologist certs especially in IT though.

>>10233700
By people with money he means kikes, and they have no virtue but money

computer science

>>10229319
CS jobs >> math jobs