/sci/ - Science & Math

small correction, weather is now 90% GO
furthermore, the government shutdown won't stop the launch https://www.floridatoday.com/story/tech/science/space/2018/12/19/air-force-government-shutdown-wont-impact-florida-spacex-launch/2363761002/

>>10231415
>aww yissss we space general now
The thread is only surviving because a bunch of launches are happening at the same time, some of which are being delayed for days.

27 days until DM-1. Hopefully the shutdown doesn't push it any further

The bill failed to pass: https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1076229257708204034

It was the same bill that allowed multiple launches a day from America spaceports and kept funding for the ISS until 2030.

>239 Yeas, 137 Nays
It needed 2/3rds majority to pass.

>>10232097
194 Republicans and 45 Democrats voted for it. 130 Democrats and 7 Republicans voted against it.

>>10232104
57 didn't vote

>>10232097
>63.6% yeas
fuck

>>10232097
>ISS to 2030
Literally why?
We learned all we could from it already.
We have to do other things.

>>10232124
It's use is growing every year. But we do need to find someone else to pick up the tab for the station so we can use that money for sending people deeper into space.

>>10232104
why the fuck did the democrats vote against it?
are the democrats literally satan wtf why do they hate everything cool

>>10232104
LOL Bill Nelson's final bill got cucked by his own party, what a shit show...

New video of Long March 8 came out. It's supposed to be re-usable like Falcon 9/Heavy. It's set for a low Earth orbit launch in 2020.

>>10232133
What's funny is, let me recap what we learned that's about deeper space exploration:
Weightlessness bad for humans.
Weightlessness bad for animals.
Weightlessness bad for plants.
And weightlessness is the only changing parameter.
All we've been testing is traveling conditions.
Good thing Mars isn't the ISS, I guess.
But we'll never know until we try.

>>10232149
Testing weightlessness is important. We can always build another space station with lunar level spin gravity to test its effects over the next 30 years. Eventually we could move even to 1/3g and make the first steps to Mars.

>>10232147
>https://www.weibo.com/5386897742/H1y8QxIy3
they hold onto the side boosters and use them as ballast for the landing apparently

Next launch is in a little under 2 hours:
>China to launch first Hongyun low Earth orbit communication satellite late on Friday (~23:50 UTC/6:50 pm EST) with launches to follow on Dec 25 & 29
>Long March 11
>37th orbital launch by China this year

>>10232147
>empty tincan srbs glued on f9 model with the gridfins and all
Seems legit and very stable I expect successful landing in 21 at the latest.

>>10232147
It's going to be fun seeing them repeatedly fail, though I'll doubt they will reveal footage. Did you know the reason it doesn't ditch the boosters is because the Chinese don't have a engine with sufficient throttle ability? their using the empty boosters as ballast so the core has a low enough thrust to weight ratio to land. Also 39A is looking pretty Kino now...

>>10232153
What we also learned is a few month weightlessness isn't that bad.
I mean, ffs, are we gonna keep spending money on shit we already know?

>>10232149
It's good for commercial opportunities though. If we want to pass LEO on to companies so NASA can go deeper into space, then it may be helpful to keep the station around for awhile.

>>10232159
CHINA CONTROL LANDING ALGORITHMS ARE BEST ALGORITHMS
CHINA ROCKET NUMER ONE

WHAT? NO, YOU NO SEE ROOT LOCUS PLOT OF CONTROL SYSTEM

>>10232147
>landing legs not even attached until landing scene
>one of them is clipping through the srb

Though I admit it will be hilarious if they get it running before ULA. The hysteria in the congressional aerospace circles will be amazing.

>>10232164
It's only gonna drag out and being a money sink for no real purpose.
ISS has hit its limits as a demonstrator.
We can't simulate a full Mars mission in LEO anyway, so we might as well do it.

>>10232167
It's ironic that LinkSpace, a tiny Chinese private company have better throttling engines than their government do...

>>10232167
Something like this happens in ksp when you do landing burn but forget to take of the autopilot from pointing retrograde. Unless they acquire most of the spacex code and some hardware and successfully reverse engineer it this is going to take a while.
The behavior of the recent booster during its landing failure hints strongly toward a system that is far more adaptive than people previously thought, and if that level is actually a requirement for successful booster landings all competitors might hit an expensive r&d wall early on.

>>10232182
according to Hans the computer even knows the locations of buildings on the ground too, so it can microadjust in case of somehow going outside of the safety zone so it doesn't smash into the VAB or whatever

>>10232136
Most likely politics. "If the guys from the enemy sandbox support X, we should look into excuses for boycotting/preventing X". Both sides do this in USA, both "ruling parties" and "opposition parties" do this everywhere else in the world. Politicians suck. Politics in general suck.

I'm so sad right now.
It looks like anyone but China and SpaceX are looking at Mars as a goal.
They'll build a station around the Moon and discover it's the exact same thing as the ISS.
Kill me now.

In the daylight over Elysium planitia on sol 23 (20 December 2018), InSight documented SEIS sitting on the Martian surface, where it had been placed late in the evening the sol before.

>>10232208
I'm not sure if the Gateway will survive. It might, but projects come and go all the time in spaceflight. The Moon and Mars camps switch over as the primary goals of manned spaceflight all the time too. We've been on a road to nowhere for a long time.

Anyway, when it comes to China, it seems like their goal for manned exploration is the Moon and not Mars.

>>10232244
Don't forget.
If NASA ever gets to Mars, they got to go to a fucking Phobos first, because, who knows.

>>10232271
UAC when

>>10232205
What failed was a vote to skip the normal process so they could speed it through before the next congress. The bill is by no means dead.

From NASA's plan.
Imagine being this guy doing a flyby of Mars.
Holy fuck I would want to break everything.
It's way worse than Apollo 10, because they only had a week or so to get it through. And they were hoping to actually get there on later flights.
But a Mars Flyby. Might as well a Venus Flyby and we'd learn the same thing: we can into orbital mechanics, who fucking knew? And I personally think Venus would look awesome closeby.
It's almost as if we don't want anyone to di no matter what.
It's a good thing, but it won't get us anywhere.

>>10232326
there's a first for everything, and it would also validate important subsystems and work out any issues that could arise with missions that land. There were going to be even more pre-landing Apollo launches, but they were canned in favor of let's go to the moon dudes

>>10232350
didn't they get canceled because of the Apollo 1 fire pushing everything back, and the buttkick that followed actually being efficient about shit

>>10232354
that and the Apollo 6 problems that accelerated everything

>>10232350
You know, if you're gonna spend 4 years in space, no matter what, might as well land on the thing.
You know what the problem is? fucking SLS.
It can't do anything more.

Analysis of why the bill failed to pass https://spacepolicyonline.com/news/house-votes-down-space-frontier-act/

>one key Democrat convinced a bunch of others to not vote for it until the Dems have control of the House next year
>one Republican said that the bill was weak and didn't go far enough, so it only had lukewarm support

>>10232364
But muh spaceforce?

>>10232368
This doesn't have anything to do with the Space Force. That won't be voted on until mid-late next year.

>>10232364
P O L I T I C S

>>10232371
It always boggled my mind, given NASA's buget.
How the fuck isn't the military all over the solar system?
I mean, they got dark budget and all, and it's worth billions.
Maybe China lands a probe on Mars only to discover it was colonized 40 years ago.

>>10232389
The military was interested in sending personnel into space during the 50s and 60s but that died out with Apollo and realizing that machines could do it better and more cheaply.

>>10232394
>>10232389
see: MOL

>When your hopes for human spaceflight rest on the shoulders of a semi-lunatic and the bugmen

Not looking good guys.

>>10232396
Get rich and send people into space yourself.

>>10232396
don't forget Bezorz

>>10232394
You mean until they realized they could anything with their free money?

>>10232395
>MOL
Not sure what it is.

>>10232402
Oh yes I forgot about >>10232406
the megalomaniac who employs modern day slave labour. Just rope me now senpai.

>>10232411
To be honest, Elon Musk is just adapting old tech to his needs.
I wouldn't surprise if military had a setlement on Mars, but it wouln't be much because it would need much launches to support it.
Unless it's self sustaining, that is.
Anyways, I vote dibs on military, and I don't know why they wouldn't have done it years ago, given their budget.
If they didn't, then they're dumb as fuck.

>>10232409
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manned_Orbiting_Laboratory
there's a great documentary about it on youtube somewhere

>>10232409
The Manned Orbiting Laboratory was a mini-space station (Salyut sized) that was designed by the USAF for reconnaissance and experimentation. It was manned and used a modified Gemini capsule as a return vehicle for the crew.

>>10232433
It was only launched once, unmanned before being cancelled because the military realised satellites were just better at and more practical for their missions...

The Chinese mission should've launched by now. I'm waiting for news.

>>10232440
was supposed to be between 23:46-00:28 I think

>>10232157
>37th orbital launch
Wait are serious, I had no idea china was spitting out rockets like that.

>>10232454
it's concerning for sure

>>10232375
It looks like fucking mitosis.

>>10232454
The total number of launches this year is among the highest ever in history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_in_spaceflight#By_country

>>10232464
Good for india and Japan having a decent launch year. Also does this a ui not for private companies, or just government organizations.

Launch happened.
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2018/12/chinese-long-march-11-launches-hongyun-satellite/

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=47005.0;all

>>10232491
>each row has a printer
Why

>>10232454
>>10232457
No need for worry my good friend! We onry raunch communication satterite, CCP guarantee!

>>10232491
Apparently the Hongyun 1 satellite launched is the first satellite that is part of a LEO Internet constellation like SpaceX's Starlink. Looks like China is in a race with the rest of the world.

>>10232519
Based Chinese overlords save me from comcast pls.

>>10232496
50's nostalgia

>>10232519
I'm pretty sure not many people/countries are going to want Chinese controlled internet, so that seems like a major barrier to dominance in the market; just like how Starlink will likely be banned in China, which is highly possible now due to airforce involvement in the project.

>>10232496
Incase you need to fucking print something

>>10232540
It's not just Starlink. Other constellations have made agreements with the military this year. https://spacenews.com/telesat-wins-study-contract-for-darpas-experimental-constellation/ It's all a part of the switch to "resilient space architecture" so that the military can win a future war in space or deter it altogether if possible. I wouldn't be surprised if all of these constellations are banned by the Chinese and even other countries like Russia because of security concerns. Russia already recently canceled OneWeb's satellite launches because they consider OneWeb a threat. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-oneweb-russia-security-exclusive/exclusive-russia-opposes-u-s-oneweb-satellite-service-cites-security-concerns-idUSKCN1MY1P8

DING DONG DING DONG
the government has shut down
rip DM-1, the launch date will probably move to the right

>>10232389
>>10232394
the military was interested in sending personnel into space until they realized that there's nothing fucking up there and launching a missile from the moon (which is basically the only thing you could do from up there) won't help them win any wars

>>10232724
where still launching the gps 3.0 correct?

>>10232827
yep, those assets count as essential

>>10232724
DM-1 isn't going to launch until next month anyway.

>>10232124
here's a bigger question
if we arent going to fund the iss for a longer duration, than why the fuck did Boeing and spacex develop their capsules for like what 6\8 or 10 more missions.

>>10233049
Bigelow

>>10232182
>china
>r&d wall

>>10231408
Anyone else a huge fan of giving government handouts to private corporations?

>>10233256
yes

>>10233256
yes

>>10233073
Yep. NASA only wants brand new capsules, so there will be a lot of leftover human-rated capsules. That's the only thing keeping Bigelow from going big. The space tourism potential of staying up for a week in one of those things will completely BTFO silly ballistic theme park rides.

>>10233073
>Bigelow
that thing still attached to the station?

when will we have a bouncy castle in the sky?

>>10231408
Earth is flat

T-27mins to F9 launch of GPSIII SV01
fking PUMPED!

spacex.com/webcast

>>10233010
DM-1 is not launching until Boeing has caught up.

SpaceX stream has just gone live.

>>10232136
Rebs put a poison pill with it, no abortions and compulsory capital punishment for smocking weed

>>10233849
really

>>10232375
Wtf am i looking at?

Coverage begins

>pajeet

>mommy brought mickyds
>watching when we left earth and specex stream
very comfy

Oh dammit another hold

HOLD CALLED
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

>>10233863
flight canceled comfy mood ended

SCRUBBBBBBBBEDDDDD

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

fuck you Elon

This and the Delta IV Heavy has got to be the two most blue-balled launches this year.

>>10233874
t. tory bruno

is it scrub?

>>10233872
give me a pepe for this guy's reactions right now

upper level winds too strong,
what height (or hPa) are they talking about?

https://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/isobaric/250hPa/overlay=temp/orthographic=-82.36,32.59,1348/loc=-80.683,27.498

>>10233880
>elon musk is my hero

>>10232147
the freak accident videos coming from china are gonna be next level

>>10233880
I'm waiting for launches to come to me.

>>10233875
Delta has longer turn around times as well, so if it misses the next one it'll definitely be in 2019 instead.

>>10233886
u jelly

>New Zealand launches on first try
>US can't launch after 4 attempts

>>10232147
I'm nauseatingly pro-American but I can get behind this. Wishing them good luck on LM8 honestly. Space is open for business!

>>10233885
dunno

https://www.patrick.af.mil/About-Us/Weather/

>>10233906
>https://www.patrick.af.mil/About-Us/Weather/
ty

"Maximum upper-level winds... 95 knots near 40,000 feet."

http://meteorologytraining.tpub.com/14269/css/14269_75.htm
40000 feet ~ 187.5 hPa

the 250 hPa map at >>10233885
is close

>>10231408
test

>>10233895
you clearly weren’t around when RocketLab had a month+ long scrub

it's happening

>>10234043
>yfw the trend before spacex

>>10234064
it’s mostly China to thank as well

>>10234043
There’s never been a year without a failure. Wonder if that will ever change?

>>10234074
To be fair all China have done this year is spam launches of the same hypergolic fuelled vehicles they've used since the 80's; the only notable payload they've launched this year is a moon lander, with the LM-5 launch being delayed to 2019 and their first commercial launch failing. In comparison America and Europe have launched some really impressive payloads this year including Mars Insight, Parker Solar Probe and BepiColombo.

>>10234092
Yeah, it doesn’t seem that China has anything interesting they can launch.

>>10234100
what are they claiming they want to fuel LM8 with?

Talking of interesting things to launch...

>>10234112
DELIGHTFULLY COUNTERINTUITIVE

>>10234112
holy shit, what the hell is he doing out there

>>10234112
Do they want to test the motors for moving the fins?

>>10234123
maybe the big concrete thing is ballast

>>10234117
>first rocket to be cemented to the earth
>doesn't need light materials because it will never leave the atmosphere
>can literally be built in some scrap yard
>now earth is our space ship

>>10234112
THE ABSOLUTE MADMAN

>>10234112
This is either a very elaborate water tower, a prop to troll oldspace and score pr points in light of dm-1, or...

>>10234119
Building a operational BFR test article

>>10234145
Add the cone now
>>10234120

>>10234120
Okay this pretty much confirms it's either a mock-up or a legit grasshopper. Are there any images that offer detailed view of the concrete base? If it is the real thing then it will have to be lifted away and mated to raptor thrust plate eventually and a quick look at how its already attached could tell a lot.

>>10231408
Fuck off, redditor.

>>10234153
have they even built full scale raptors yet?

>>10234163
No.

>>10234153
It's a practical joke by musk, because he said he'd tease pictures of the test starship but it is not ready.

>>10234145
It's probably a mockup. I'm not even sure if it's for testing. It might just be a piece of art.

>>10234163
The one in the DearMoon presentation has been described as a full-scale test article and Shotwell said that "flight models" were in production. Unfortunately McGregor is very secretive compared to Boca Chica, so it's hard to tell...

>>10234168
a giant BFR statue for the BFR sight would be pretty cool
>>10234172
oh, was that described as full scale? That's good

https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=147&v=UHGlw9H_OaI
Our top agent has taken some highly classified footage...

>>10234172
It was described by one of the engineers who worked on the test as a test article; sub scale just like the first one

>>10234183
Source?

>>10234182
I didnt know the Stargate building was that close. What an ugly building too. Aside from the front entrance, it looks cheap and generic.

>>10234201
I think that's the idea

What's up with the patchwork? It's not that hard to buy a near complete water tank and it's probably cheaper than welding one out of scrap anyway.

So after looking at this OP (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=47022.0;all)), they seem to think it's a test article for the engines? In the same way that Linkspace was doing it here >>10232167

>>10234236
>What's up with the patchwork? It's not that hard to buy a near complete water tank and it's probably cheaper than welding one
Yes, let me just quickly call to my contacts in water tank casting industry and order a ready-to-install 10 meters by 20 meters water tank made from steel...
... in case you didnt get the sarcasm: no one fucking delivers basic steel structures of those dimensions in a single unit, "patchwork" is the standard procedure for anything that doesnt fit the roads. It looks like that because its missing finishing and possible protective surface layers.

>But cool pics of the demo Starship that will fly suborbital hops coming in ~4 weeks
>8 Dec 2018
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1071610505406513153

NSF are saying that this is why they are working around the clock to build this.

Maybe they’ve decided that building BFR to launch GPS III would take less time than dealing with THESE FUCKING SCRUBS

>>10234043
Except it's not.
SpaceX launched about 20 rockets this year as they did in 2017.
Fast re-use is still a question mark.

>>10234320
Please be real.
Maybe they found a way to make super heavy kift rockets in a few weeks.

>>10234182
Good job linking to the last second of the video.

>>10231408
desu

>>10234333
>Elon: yeah you guys have been way overengineering it, if you just go ham it all becomes much easier

>>10234331
SpaceX will launch 21 rockets this year compared to 18 last year; they did this whilst simultaneously phasing in two new model rocket models and heavily on Dragon 2, don't downplay this achievement. "Fast-reuse" is currently a useless gimmick what matters is the cost savings, there are currently no payloads that require such a launch regime, with only one on the horizon (Starlink). SpaceX haven't even managed to figure out how to fold the Block 5 legs properly and Vandenberg's TE only allows a 4 week turnaround, but none of this matters yet because the primary cause of launch delay is the payload. The rest of the industry has to catch up with SpaceX to make rapid-reuse a reality.

>>10234373
Jesus that grammar fail at the beginning, I think I had a stroke...

>>10234375
reads fine to me, you're probably still having a stroke

>>10234371
>rockets
>hard
Just build a steel tube in your backyard and strap engines to it lmao.

>>10234378
yeah but think of all that payload you're giving up!!!!

>>10234383
Just turn around and fly twice lmao.

>>10234395
I was about to say, "that's why it's the size of the fucking Saturn V lmao"

>>10232153
We can make several artificial G stations really easily, in fact in a single launch each.

All you have to do is launch a big station module like Skylab, except instead of being free floating it remains connected to the stage that put it into orbit by a 200 meter cable, using it as a counterweight, and it rotates about a point along the cable at whatever speed you want it to to generate a certain level of G. Single launch, no complex rotating hermetic seals, no significant Coriolis forces to make the astronauts nauseous, and you can simulate any amount of gravity just by altering the rate of rotation. The only new thing you'd really need to develop would be a grappling system strong enough to 'hang' the capsule the astronauts arrive in from the 'bottom' of the habitat module, so that the capsule docking port doesn't just rip off and the astronauts can still evacuate if required on a moment's notice.You could also model the station after a habitat meant to be placed on the surface of the Moon or Mars so that you're getting as true-to-life a simulation of the eventual real thing as possible.

You don't need to make a ring shaped station to get artificial G and you certainly don't need to spend another hundred billion to get a new station up. Launch one or two artificial G stations with a single launch each and you can do year long missions in effective Lunar gravity and Martian gravity simultaneously, or longer if you want. When it's time to do crew rotations the space station fires its thrusters and reels in its cable to stop the spin and allow undocking of the old capsule with the departing crew and docking of the new capsule with the fresh crew and their supplies.

>>10234373
Look, SpaceX isn't going anywher if they don't get moar payloads.
I guess their plan is to launch their own intenets, but I doubt anyone but niggers would adopt it. Sound financial grounds.

>>10234378
Unacceptable waste of fuel.

>>10234402
fuel is cheap dude

>>10234402
Fuel can be made of air, water and electricity.

I wonder when they'll start with that, by the way. I mean they have to get that stuff ready for Mars anyway. Might as well use it on earth and get browny points for having green rockets.
Come to think of it, they'd probably remove at least some of their CO2 from Earth...

>>10234404
>>10234450
>but the tyranny of the rocket equation!
>every gram counts!
>aerospace grade materials optimization!

>>10234459
all very important, but if all you want is a truck to LEO
the loss in payload capacity is made up for in cheapness

>>10234459
>aerospace grade materials optimization!
I told this dude to do a good job and he said "Ok".

>>10234450
You supposedly need a ~megawatt of power to fuel a BFS over Martian synod. Considering that BFR is much bigger and will fly much more often than once per 1-2 years, you need like a gigawatt of power to supply a future SpaceX launch site with propellant this way. That is a big solar array..

>>10234320
Maybe it’s a fit test article for their new pads?

>>10234482
“Yep, that’s a rocket”

>>10234398
>we can make several spin gravity platforms
Look at LOP-G. That will be taking quarter of a century if not more. The chinks meanwhile will be spending that time to build a mir knockoff. There's no "we" and nobody will look at that anymore than they did at the various zubrin directs. Spin gravity research might be considered after microgravity is thoroughly milked and after LOP-G and probably after whatever comes after LOP-G.

Partial g effects will remain unknown for a long time unless fortune smiles and some private nutjobs capable of doing it decide to take the risk themselves. And are allowed to do so by governments with vested economic interests propped up by space magic propaganda and military paranoia about rocket technology. Looking at the political shitfest that is commercial crew I'm not very optimistic.

>>10234482
I remember reading about welders/workers sleeping in the N1 structure.

interesting

I mean if it’s not the hopper what is it?

>>10234665
now that I get a good look at it, that looks more like a bunch of welded panels instead of a concrete tube
it's probably the hopper demonstrator test vehicle
I wonder what those panels are made of? they don't look like steel to me

>>10234674
What's the alternative to steel? I heard people saying titanium but that's utterly retarded considering this is a hopper test vehicle at best.

>>10234687
it's not shiny enough to be steel
maybe

>>10234687
I saw some suggestions that the shiny parts may be aluminum.

will the dragon 2 in-flight abort test occur from LC39?

>>10234703
Yes, they originally planned to do it from Vandenberg because it's much closer to Hawthorne which is where the DM-1 Dragon will be refurbished; but decided against it due to all the recovery vessels being on the east-coast.

>>10234741
makes sense, they already have the stuff to service Dragon 2 built at 39A, and none of that stuff at SLC4

>>10234658
this shit is hilarious

Space autismos think this is real: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqHq3thJEqY

not quite as impressive on the west coast
4W is being used as the landing pad for F9
I forgot to title these
this is Kennedy Space Center LC39A >>10234658
this is Cape Canaveral AFS SLC40 >>10234747
the current post is for Vandenberg AFB SLC4

>>10234692
>>10234689
leading theory seems to be a steel alloy. By increasing the structure weight you actually decrease the need for weight elsewhere due to the nifty properties of steel compared to composites or LiAl metals

AW SHEEEIT NEW BFR DETAILS FROM ELON
“Stainless steel is correct, but different mixture of alloys & new architecture. Unlike Atlas, Starship is buckling stable on launchpad even when unpressurized”

>>10234888
Anti-steel fags btfo.
>you can't make rocket out of steel its too heavy toppity top lels lol

>>10234888
>Stainless steel balloon tanks. Heavy metal. Calling it now. Welcome Atlas back Atlas B.
The spacecraft is inflatable? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imkdz63agHY

>>10234754
>someone laughs from joy after years of their effort worked perfectly
>therefore earth is flat

astounding

HAPPENING

>>10234989
>Starship is buckling stable on launchpad even when unpressurized

it won't fall apart like the atlas in the video

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

BFR HAS MOVED TO THE LEFT
FIRST FLIGHT MARCH/APRIL 2019

>>10235047
Blue Origin cucks BTFO

AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH
MY DICK

>"We’re building subsections of the Starship Mk I orbital design there"

THE FUTURE BELONGS TO BIG LUMBERING TINTIN STAINLESS STEEL ROCKETS AND IT'S GONNA BE GREAT

>>10235030
>>10235047
What was the previous date for testing?

>>10235057
There was no date afaik, but everyone expected late 2019.

>This test hopper is at full body diameter of 9m / 30 ft, just not full height. Super Heavy will be full height & diameter.


BEHOLD: STARSHIP Mk 1

>>10235063
rocketlet

>confirmed stainless steel
>confirmed "water tower" for hopper
We're in for a wild ride niggers next stop is Mars no ticket refunds.

>Yes, but single stage to orbit with no payload is pointless. Add Super Heavy rocket booster & orbital payload is gigantic. Only need booster on Earth, due to deep gravity well & thick atmosphere. Starship alone on moons & Mars.
I know the completed ship is SSTO, but is he saying this test article is also capable of SSTO?

>>10235069
Many rocket stages including the f9 booster are ssto's.

>>10234989
he said that it wasn't inflatable and would be rigid under it's own weight+cargo, and confirmed that it will be made from stainless steel, although a different alloy of it
if you pick your stainless alloy right it can do some amazing stuff but it's super expensive, always

*AHEM*
*ting* ting* ting*

MAY I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE

>>10235023
W E H A V E A R R I V E D

>moved to the left
So this is the power of abandoning composites for conventional material without cancelling the project.

>>10235063
>>10235064
Chode

March/April test of Starship

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1076608579652616192

there it is lads

Will probably slip but it's absolutely happening right now

THEY'D BETTER NAME ONE GALILEO

What did he mean by this

>>10235096
>changing the engine
uh oh

>>10235096
it just keeps happening

>>10235100
>inb4 Raptor is now made out of STAINLESS STEEL AS WELL

>>10235103
>inb4 aluminum combustion chamber

F
U
T
U
R
E

>>10235106
>inb4 composites

>>10235096
BACK TO ETHANOL AND WATER LADS, START DISTILLING THOSE POTATOES ON THE DOUBLE

300 BAR

>>10235115
so are they going to be growing potatoes on mars for refueling?

raptor apparently uses 75,000 kW per turbopump

>>10235119
it's a joke; the V2 used distilled potatoes as fuel

SLS on suicide watch.

>>10235136
>american taxpayer on suicide watch
ftfy

so how many times will they need to land the main engine so that it will have payed off?

>>10235171
stainless steel is hilariously expensive but should be more durable and last longer than the carbon stuff

>>10235173
cheaper than composites by an order of magnitude when you consider that they don't need a gigantic curing machine etc.

>>10235173
Which engine are you talking about now? I was trying to ask more in general, like now they're mostly flying falcon 9 I think? How are they doing on covering the costs of creating reusable rockets?

>>10235184
>>10235173
>>10235185
>>>/x/21920603

Now what will happen to the LA facility where they build those rocket parts at? They bought up a whole section of the port too.

>>10235185
they don't refly stuff very often but with Block 5 up now it should start picking up

>>10234775
>>10234747
now compare it to long march 2 or 3, or soyuz

fucking retard

>>10235185
the reusability program at Spacex has cost around a billion dollars to date

So when are we picking up pitchforks and marching to the SLS development headquarters?

>>10235192
>>10235193
>>10235197
>>10235203
>>10235211
>>10235208
>>>/x/21920603

>>10235211
Elon?

>>10234153
>or a legit grasshopper
It's made of concrete and spot welded steel, are you fucking retarded?

>>10235118
absolute madlevel

>>10235219
>he hasn't read the thread
it is a legit BFR grasshopper, first flight is in a few months. The concrete is the base it's sitting on. Everything else is 300-series stainless steel

>>10235188
>>10235212
nobody gives a shit that you're screaming retarded shit so that people give you attention

>>10235219
>people actually think that cryogenic propellant will be loaded into this thing
>people actually think that they would build it half a mile off site and only then transport it to the site
all redditors have a mental illness

is BFR, dare I say, stainless and steelpilled?

>>10235219
>concrete rocket

>>10235212
kill yourself autist

>childish names like "BFR" and "BFS" abandoned
>retarded tri-leg design abandoned
>carbon fiber meme abandoned and replaced with kino stainless steel
Finally this company is making some correct decisions. The first of their kind in nearly 2 years.

of course, they could still add more body sections. the actual flight article hopper could be taller by a couple "layers" of 300SS

>>10235096
He means it's going to be the full scale flight version

>>10235247
or, perhaps some big development in throttling ability, or maybe gimbaling changes / it can take a wider range of fuel mixtures or whatever

>>10235252
Nah, a test engine has a lot of stuff that simply isn't optimized for flight. To go from that to a flight engine you may end up having to rearrange pumps and shorten pipes and do all kinds of other stuff, but the hard bits like the turbopumps are already figured out.

>>10235238
top kek

>>10235238
ITS was the coolest design

hopefully they're going to polish it all up nice and shiny before a launch. It better be blindingly bright and reflective.
In orbit, it should be excruciatingly bright at night then. Man, and the ISS pass-overs are bright...

>>10235238
That looks like something out of Fallout

>>10235276
Looking forward to all the UFO calls on mornings and evenings

>>10235083
Take THAT Venture Star!

>>10235115
>all of space X drunk on fuel all day
>NASA review turns out devestating
>Nasa vows to not let any of their astronauts fly with them ever again
>meanwhile private customers partying on Mars all day
>"We can‘t say when they‘ll come back. They have to leave some for the rocket at some point."

>>10235184
The fact that they can just go out there and start welding shit together is a testament to how much easier and cheaper steel is.

alright you FUCKS we're making collective OC tonight
here, I whipped up a quick outline of starship. add something to it (clip art, scribble, whatever)
I've started us out with a GODDAMN AMERICAN FLAG

>>10235320
working

continuing

>>10235229
Nuclear propulsion.

>>10235374
added a scope just in case :)

>>10235385
JWST btfo

>>10235276
Actually a white coat of paint would be more effective, because the vehicle is not a perfectly flat mirror, and anyway specular reflections can't be seen from all angles. White paint however is incredibly bright when in full sun.

>>10235355
funny way to spell 'frost'

>>10235320
>we
you mean reddit

>>10234145
This is Salvage 1 tier

>>10234112
>>10234118
>>10234120
>>10234182
we are truly living in the most awesome timeline

>>10235184
Lmao no fucking way. This is going to be glorious.

>>10234989
>The spacecraft is inflatable?
Sure, why not?

>>10235494
No, it will not be inflatable

Someone on NSF is claiming that the launch pad is going to be concave.

>>10235374
needs a stache

>>10235184

>>10235508
NSF is the last forum style place on the Internet I can actually enjoy reading, mostly because the autism levels are off the fucking charts.

>>10235265
Yeah it was so kino, new designs look fucking gay, but if they deliver then whatever I guess.

>>10235511
so fucking draw one

the Martian insprucker aliums have arrived

>>10234371
Isn't the Sea Dragon basically this principle taken to the extreme?

>>10235184
>this rocket uses the Tsillykovsky equations

>>10235532
Gonna need some counter-sniping measures if you want it to have any chance of reaching orbit.

don't forget the crackers Gromit

>>10235543
>Tsillykovsky
was a fraud all along

>>10235508
can you imagine how kino that would be though

>>10235229
It's delightfully counterintuitive.

new Elon tweets

>SpaceX metallurgy team developed SX500 superalloy for 12000 psi, hot oxygen-rich gas. It was hard. Almost any metal turns into a flare in those conditions.
>Our superalloy foundry is now almost fully operational. This allows rapid iteration on Raptor.

more like FULLY ERECT

>>10235673
I'm hyperventilating

>>10235673
this tweet makes my penis become the big penis

where were you when USA became world leader in oxygen-tolerant super alloys?

>>10235673
I don't know the significance of this but it sounds impressive.

>>10235679
actual material science wizardry

>>10235679
Pure oxygen can burn normal stainless steel at ~10 psi. This shit can handle oxygen at several hundred degrees and 120 times the pressure, and indefinitely to boot.

>>10235673

>>10234328
fucking lol

>>10235682
It's a good time to be a materials scientist
right? please dont let my major be useless

>>10235030
yeah in 2021

>>10231408
You know what i love about this new space race

Tons of stuff is broadcast online for free in high definition.

REV UP THOSE CRITICS COLLAGES

SUPER POWER 2020

With the U.S. government shutdown, there is nothing stopping Elon Musk.

can't land on mars with tiny landing legs like that

>>10235718
>Chad FCC steel vs the virgin composite fiber bunches
>what's atomic packing factor huhhhh?????

>>10235673
Calling bs, can't find this anywhere.

>>10235827
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1076684059827302400

>>10235673
So what are the practical implications of this? Higher ISP?

>>10235673
Has Tom Mueller basically become Glushko at this point?

>>10235843
It solves the metallurgy problem that has often prevented the US from building oxygen-rich staged-combustion engines and is likely on par with the alloys Valentin Glushko used to build engines such as the RD-170 during the 1980s.

So basically reliability increase and weight decrease?

>>10235854
for instance, the shuttle metal structure could withstand like 150C, so it needed a lot of TPS. If BFR can withstand more than that—and it will, due to the use of fancy stainless steels—then the TPS can be much smaller in scale

>>10233817
how the richest man in the world not miles ahead of elon musky in the space race?

>>10235866
the non-meme reasons are
>blue origin was mainly a think tank for the first handful of years it existed
>there were a fuckton of grumpy old oldspace people in charge who didn't want to do anything too difficult or actually work quickly. Thankfully they were all purged from the company recently
>their rocket factory is still sort of under construction
>the money they get from Bezorp is only like half a bil per year
etc

>>10234112
>>10234118
>>10234120
>A FUCKING GRAIN SILO

>>10235879
>this rocket burns 326 bushels of fuel a second

wait... this means that BFR will be user-repairable.
>crunch something?
>meteoroid hole?
>just weld 'er back up with a replacement panel

>>10235849
>on par with the alloys Valentin Glushko used to build engines such as the RD-170 during the 1980s.
why don't people use said alloys today?

THIS IS GROUND CONTROL TO MAJOR TOM...

>>10235885
>muh propellant fraction

>>10235886
For here am I sitting in a... uh... steel can

>>10235885
Because the Soviet engine metallurgy was unparalleled. The Russians obviously do still use them but they can't do anything but replicate the stuff nowadays, the Chinese also have a lox/kerosene staged combustion engine but it's performance isn't high enough to require such superalloys, the same is the case with Blue Origin's BE-4. Raptor is the only modern engine to reach the level of performance to need similar alloys.

>>10235884
I'm having Sheckley flashbacks.

>>10235902
they should name one of the starships NOMAD for the luls as well

>>10234989

New thread?

>>10235885
Because we gotta do it the right way. The way we were always doing it.
The alternative invites potential failures and failures are bad they cancel projects even if not critical.
Cancelling projects is bad. Very bad.
Worse than killing people which sometimes cancels projects.

>>10235184
I hope they don't paint it, though they probably will. I miss the shiny bare metal look of 50s and 60s aerospace stuff.

>>10235718
Yeah. I wish my teacher in material sciences hadn't been total garbage and hadn't put me off of the subject.
Looking around now, material sciences seems to be one of the hottest things right now. You can go into any cool future project and you can be damn sure they'll need a material scientist to figure out new shit. Rocket science, fusion, battery tech, solar panels, super and hyper sonic air craft etc.
And even if you get bored of conventional materials, there's the whole can of worms of topological and 2D-materials.

>>10236070
Painting the shiny would be an aesthetic crime.

ALL SYSTEMS ARE GO.

WE GONNA LAUNCH TODAY BROS?

don't we need a new thread sometime later today?

>>10236314
The launch is in 30 minutes.

>>10236315
Yeah I guess

Make a new thread this one is going to die

>>10236322
This one won't die until after launch at least.

>>10236280
Are we going to space today?

>>10236322
You don't understand how slow /sci/ is, do you?

>>10236326
No, spacex is

SpaceX FM is live

6 minutes to launch

4 mins for launch!

No landing today?

2 minutes!

>>10236344
no landing today

What's if it blows on launch?

>>10236348
yer mum

LAUNCH

Wow that camera is shaking a lot

LIFTOFF

LIFT OFF

Noooo don't cut the stage 1 feed!

F for B1054

>>10236357
Literally the only reason I showed up today

>>10236361
GPS III isn't a classified mission is it?

>>10236364
while it is a national security mission, it is not classified.

WHAT ARE THEY HIDING? WHAT IS THAT?

so far so good

>>10236371
Ice.

Wait, what's the target orbit?
If it's just a transfer to 20.200km, they should of been ale to recover the stage?
Or maybe it's heavy as fuck?

>>10236372
I wanted to see the first stage burn up

>>10236374
it is weird, I know: https://spacenews.com/air-force-open-to-reusable-rockets-but-spacex-must-first-demonstrate-performance/

>>10236374
Heavy as fuck, high inclination they need to burn for and can't just launch at

>>10236379
But then they actually landed the ZUMA booster. So what gives?

>>10236382
What >>10236380 said, also Zuma was built by an unknown contractor not the airforce.

>>10236374
GPS is MEO, I think they go up at the 12-hour orbit level. It's the odd inclination and shit.

>>10236383
Northrop build it, but we don't know for who

What do you think Zuma's mission was? Any guesses? >>10236364

>>10236383
Yeah forgot about inclination.
Also NROL-76 landed too. Is that not airforce?
It's starting to look like a fucking waste to not recover stages, desu.
Maybe FH for these launch would be useful.

>>10236389
it's definitely the last time they throw away a first-flight block 5, at least.

next launch is the last iridium launch on the 8th

>>10236389
>Also NROL-76 landed too. Is that not airforce?

No, the NRO (National Reconnaissance Office) is it's own independent agency, it basically acts as the CIA's space reconnaissance division.

>>10236399
disappointing 2018 overall.
They were supposed to get to 30 launches and went nowhere near.
>>10236400
OK, amerifags. You've got way too much secret agencies for your own good.

>>10236403
they're out of control
if we try to remove them, they'll kill the country and fuck over the rest of the world to boot

>>10236403
>NRO
>secret
the actual secret ones don't even have names.

So, let's talk money 20-25 launches a year would make SpaceX roughly 1.5 Billions a year, with NASA paying extra for the Dragon capsule.
Minus salaries and materials and lawyers and taxes.
How do they plan to finance their Mars plan if they're not making any money?

>>10236422
How do you think Tesla financed Model 3?

>>10236422
starlink. The government has shown interest https://dod.defense.gov/News/Contracts/Contract-View/Article/1718270/ and investors as well https://spacenews.com/space-ventures-raise-nearly-1-billion-in-first-quarter-of-2018-led-by-spacex/

>>10236431
Sure, but how long before I can buy my Starlink iPhone and gibs money to SpaceX?

>>10236434
if you mean starlink phased array pizza box, then probably a year and a half or so. What is your current speeds and how much do you pay? I get 900up 900down for free from my uni, so it won't be useful for me, but for basically all underserved rural areas it'll be an order of magnitude improvement. Elon says they initially want about 10% of the ISM market, so mid-single digit billions in revenue or something like that

>>10236431
Also, this one is different, because the client is SpaceX.
Meaning it doesn't win them any money until it's operational.
It's pure investment in a technology people might not adapt at all.

>>10236422
>How do they plan to finance their Mars plan if they're not making any money?

A company with a valuation of 30.5 billion is obviously making money; SpaceX don't make a lot of revenue for investors because the majority of left over profit is funnelled back into the company for R&D. This process, combined with Starlink revenue, loans and fundraising are how SpaceX aims to finance it's Mars plans. I think they also expect a lot of external investment when their Mars plans are close to fruition, a kind of build it and they will come attitude.

>>10236443
*ISP market

>>10236443
I pay 15 Eurobucks for 50 Mbits/s.
It can get shitty in some areas, though, like no Internets at all.
I see no reason to upgrade at all.

>>10236445
>people might not adapt at all
I know I sure as hell will.

>>10236451
I mean, I will too, because I know what it's for.
But normies will just see 4G/5G operators as the same fucking thing.
Also Starlink will require compatible phones, that will come at some extra bucks.

>>10236451
you and literally every single high speed trader. and they have a lot of money for this stuff.
i.e. 300 million for 6ms improvement https://news.softpedia.com/news/New-Transatlantic-Cable-Will-Be-6-ms-Faster-High-Speed-Traders-Are-Lining-Up-221261.shtml

SpaceX FM is fucking great with the occasional control room chatter

>>10236455
you seem to be mistaken, starlink is for high speed internet anywhere in the world. It is unrelated to cellular networks, although it can supplement it some ways.

>>10236460
OK, then, who the fuck would use it?

>>10236462
Someone who doesn't have a fiber stretching up to his house?

>>10236463
Well, then, they're a decade too late.

>>10236462
hughesnet customers etc, also places in Africa, ships that want cheap gigabit.... lots of market

>>10236463
Not to mention that ISP are fucking jews and I'd rather give the money to SpaceX instead of getting fucked in my ass monthly because there's a single fucking ISP provider covering my area.

>>10236450
all those people in the mountains who don't have any internet could get some of the best internet on the planet with Starlink
that's a big potential target market
>>10236445
the air force already gave them $28 million just to evaluate putting a pizza box in an airplane

>>10236465
not really, there are rural customers all over the world who don't have real internet access

eyo what's the second stage doing there onscreen
puffs of gas? what are they doing

>>10236472
>>10236470
>>10236468
Remember Iridium?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iridium_satellite_constellation
It all sounded good on paper.

why does the air force suck so much at promo videos

>>10236443
Also low ping time because it's LEO.

STARLINK GETTIN' SPIFFY UH
WIF-FI IN A JIFFY UH
FRAGGIN' MAKES ME STIFFY UH

>>10235885
>why don't people use said alloys today?
They do and anyone who says they don't is retarded.
The alloy SpaceX developed for Raptor isn't 'on par' with the alloys developed during the Soviet era for their high performance engines, it's significantly more advanced. If you tried to run the RD-180s turbopump with oxygen rich gasses at those temperatures and pressures it'd burn up in seconds.

By the way, these alloys are *only* useful inside the actual turbopump assemblies, BFR itself is going to use regular 300 series stainless steel which has the advantage of not being more expensive per kg than gold.

>>10236070
They still need to apply significant TPS shielding to the entire vehicle, they just don't need as much compared to an aluminum or CFC structure.

>>10236443
Idk about the US, but 'underserved rural areas' just doesn't hold up around here anymore.
Fiber Optics internet is literally getting everywhere.
Even your 2000 habitant small town.

>>10236487
TPS shouldn't be needed for this.
They only gonna do hops with it, nothing needing thermal shielding.

>>10236491
might as well test it. assuming the hopper can hop up to 80km+, if you accelerate towards the ground you should be able to simulate a fair bit of atmospheric compression and wind shear

>>10236496
TPS is needed for orbital re-entry because of the extreme horizontal speed.

>>10236490
I live on the edge of a 20k pop EU town, about 25km from the capital, and the only ISP that covers my address provides 300GB limited mobile internet.

bring back ITS i say, i really want to see something the size of a skyscraper landing on earth

>>10236490
The US has some of the worst internet access speeds in the world, they get absolutely shafted by telecom companies for shitty slow internet and data caps in the low gigabytes per month.

>>10236503
it's true

>>10236491
I meant for the actual Starship/BFS, this hopper will probably get a white coat of paint tho.

>>10236502
BFR will not be the final launch vehicle they'll ever develop. It's better to scale down and have it ready in 4-5 years than go full-scale and risk the company in the process.

>>10236500
I live in Canada and I can either pay $150/month for a 50 megabyte connection and a data cap of 10 gigabytes (not a joke) OR stick with my current shitty slow internet of ~400 kilobytes per second unlimited for the low low price of $80/month.

I lay awake every night counting down the days until I can buy a Starlink connection.

>>10236500
I don't think you understand how fucking big north america is
also how big of jews the IPS are here

>>10236511
This is especially true now that they're going for stainless steel, which is vastly easier to prototype and build with. A bigger 12 or 15 meter BFR would need to wait for the construction of much bigger launch pads or perhaps sea platforms, though.

>>10236515
That's a whole new level of jew. At least I pay only ~17 eurobucks for that shitty location restricted mobile internet.
>>10236520
I wasn't bragging, quite the opposite. I'd switch to Starlink in a heartbeat.

>now more dirty foreigners can play on my favorite servers with half the ping
help