/sci/ - Science & Math

PSA: Don't listen to people on 4chan, especially OP

>>10229632
Nothing op says is wrong

This sounds like career advice.

reminder to major in CS because machine learning and automation will take over nearly every industry

>>10229629
This is true.
Remember undergrad doesn't count for shit in 2018 A.D.
You need to at least plan on grad school going in.

>>10229629
Computer science majors are objectively not stupid. Meaning, they're smarter than the typical person. The typical person cannot grasp computer science. The slightly intelligent among them would rather major in liberal arts, while the largest group simply don't graduate college. As for the truly stupid, they're held back in high school and then choose not to go to college at all.

I don't deny that CpE and EE may be superior majors, with intellectually superior people studying them, but even then, CS majors are only """stupid""' in *comparison*. It doesn't change the fact that CS majors are still objectively smart.

>>10229657
>first one stuff you will actually do in industry
>a bunch of unrelated shit that has nothing to do with software dev
Daily reminder compE is too general to be of any use. Not for building computers, nor for writing code. Now go wank about how smart you are somewhere else

>>10229822
i think what he means to imply is that software dev itself is less important than computer hardware dev

>>10229772
>Computer science majors are objectively not stupid
You're either a brainlet or haven't spoken to a cs major for long enough.
> As for the truly stupid, they're held back in high school and then choose not to go to college at all.
Definitely a brainlet or someone who graduated high school 50 years ago.

>>10229840
>Definitely a brainlet or someone who graduated high school 50 years ago.
Neither, I'm a mentally ill university student with a verified IQ of 138 (they tested it whilst'd've psych eval due to being crazy)

>>10229822
>college should be trade school
>you need multiple courses to learn to code
>you can become a good programmer by taking courses

>>10229657
damn that anon really went to a shit uni

I'm not even CS major just taking the CS intro sequence for shits and giggles and in the first course we had to write an interpreter for a functional program language using Python, those things he listed sound like first week materials

>>10229849
Don't put words in my mouth, nigger

>>10229861
Fuck off you dumb prick

>>10229845
>IQ
Nobody care about your pattern matching skillz

>>10229657
>Chemistry I and II
Wait what

>>10229856
>in the first course we had to write an interpreter for a functional program language using Python

Wow, a glorified look up table.

>>10229629
>chem1&2

>>10229875
nevertheless I'm objectively not a brainlet
I'm also not someone who graduated high school 50 years ago

Did CpE, it's just CS with a MOSFET class in which the teacher thinks CS students are smarter than EE students.

>>10229629
So this means i major in philosophy then right?

Plot twist: OP is a CS major trying to keep his field from being flooded.

>>10229629
call me a brainlet if you wish, but I'm 22 and making 150k a year out of college working in the bay area. I only pay 900 a month in rent too. Enjoy living in moms basement while the "brainlets" make absolute shittons of money.

>>10229970
>degrees are job titles
Get a load of this brainlet

>>10229970
proof right here that STEM is a meme.

don't be stupid. major in business like me. im in my 20s and already make $145K.

>>10229970
This

>interested in Mesoamerican history
>niche as fuck, job market is shit, get told not to go into it
>interested in game dev
>oversaturated as fuck, job market is shit, workers are exploited and worked to the bone
>get told to not do it
>get told to do stem, since stem is where the money nand demand is at
>market is oversatured, no entry level positions

what the hell am I supposed to pursue as a career/education?

>>10230328
Trades.

>>10229629
>t. goes to a community college

>>10229629
PSA:
>99.5% of CS majors can't Fizzbuzz
>99.95% of CS majors can't pass calculus exams like this on their second try

>>10229629
Reminder: If you hate on CS, you go to a shit tier school.

-t. someone who goes to a good school

>>10230328
What you're actually interested in, accepting that it comes with risk. If you only want money and security, then let me assure you: you don't only want money and security.

Take risks while you're still young, then break into property.

>>10229881
1st year engineers typically take the same courses regardless of program.

>>10229916
>objectively
>while talking about his subjective opinion

Brainlet confirmed

>>10230344
Unless you're in Software 'Engineering'

>>10230340
Proof are gtfo. Every American CS program is shit. There are very few good ones internationally.

>>10230340
Shut the fuck up you little shithead

>>10230343
I'm not still young, i'm 24 and never held a job or gone to college because I've been stuck in a dysfunctional abuse household

Am almost out of this shitheap so i'm trying to decide what to do

>>10230332
I'm a scrawny 5'5" manlet, I don't think it'd work out

>>10230357
>I'm a scrawny 5'5" manlet, I don't think it'd work out
Why not?

>>10230355
>t. community college brainlet

>>10230376
I told you to shut up, dumb nigger

>>10230352
How would you even know.....

At good US schools, anything under the umbrella of EECS is top tier, even higher than math or physics.

Btw, US colleges shit on all shitty international schools. Cope more.

>>10230357
That's young enough. If you have a burning passion for mesoamerican history, then fucking do that.

If you really just want a qualification for job reasons, a trade might actually be a better choice. Less debt, always in demand, and you can be self employed. I've known electricians and plumbers who do well for themselves as essentially freelance.

>>10229629
>If you're interested in CS theory then math is superior because CS programs barely scratch the surface in TCS and they only require you to do precalculus.

I swear... What kind of bottom of the barrel schools do you guys go to? Unironically.

>>10230396
>While nearly all undergraduate programs in computer science include mathematics courses in their curricula, the full set of such requirements varies broadly by institution due to a number of factors. For example, whether or not a CS program is housed in a School of Engineering can directly influence the requirements for courses on calculus and/or differential equations, even if such courses include far more material in these areas than is generally needed for most CS majors. As a result, CS2013 only specifies mathematical requirements that we believe are directly relevant for the large majority of all CS undergraduates (for example, elements of set theory, logic, and discrete probability, among others). These mathematics requirements are specified in the Body of Knowledge primarily in the Discrete Structures Knowledge Area.

>We recognize that general facility with mathematics is an important requirement for all CS students. Still, CS2013 distinguishes between the foundational mathematics that are likely to impact many parts of computer science—and are included in the CS2013 Body of Knowledge—from those that, while still important, may be most directly relevant to specific areas within computing. For example, an understanding of linear algebra plays a critical role in some areas of computing such as graphics and the analysis of graph algorithms. However, linear algebra would not necessarily be a requirement for all areas of computing (indeed, many high quality CS programs do not have an explicit linear algebra requirement). Similarly, while we do note a growing trend in the use of probability and statistics in computing and believe that this trend is likely to continue in the future, we still believe it is not necessary for all CS programs to require a full course in probability theory for all majors.
http://www.acm.org/education/curricula-recommendations

precalculus is all you need to excel in undergrad CS

>>10230396

>>10229970

look at all those engineering degrees awarded compared to the physics sciences degrees.

it's just proof that any retard can get an engineering degree

>>10230409
Do you know how many people fail out of precalculus every year? It's a weed out course that every STEM major takes INCLUDING CS majors meaning CS is just as hard as the rest. But I'm sure your school is so trash that you found precalculus easy as they butchered the course into a joke.

>>10229856
Based calanon
I took 61a this semester, scheme interpreter was fun
We legitimately have one of the hardest intro cs classes in the country though. Berkeley CS is proper good stuff since it's just EECS without the EE.

>>10230383
This, US has by far the best colleges in the world. All the smart people from other countries go there to get an education.

EECS is god tier and most people in this thread are jealous.

>>10230441
>look at all those physics degrees being awarded compared to african dance studies
>this shows any brainlet can get a physics degree

>>10230498
What's the difference between EECS and CE?

>>10230514
they're both for retards.who can't handle physics/math

>>10230514
That's the old name for CE.

>>10229629
Prgramming in general is abstract, and writing code sucks, it requires a lot of thinking and foreshadwing.

>>10230525
I'd argue the opposite. The mechanics of programming are quite straight forward. The design and structure is where the nuance is which is the emphasis of post secondary study

>>10230514
I consider EECS & CE interchangeable anon.

>>10230537

EE, CE, and CS are all for brainlets.

CS major here, though I do go to a somewhat shitty school.

But can confirm, CS is for brainlets. I regret not majoring in math every day.

>>10230562
you could've double majored retard. Plenty of people do CS/math and manage to graduate in 4 years.

>>10230554
>He thinks his undergrad degree matters
Nobody cares about what you majored in. It's all about what you know. And what you know comes from what you teach yourself. You can think you're smarter than me because your degree has different words on it, but I was smart enough to major in something that led to me making a 150k starting salary at 23. So call me a brainlet all you want, but I'm the one laughing here. I have the free time to read math and physics textbooks while at my country club staring at roasties after programming next to the pool.

I love math and physics, but I majored in CS because I'm smart enough to get an in-demand degree. I still love math and physics though, but majoring in these fields is a waste of money. Classes don't teach shit anyways. A degree is just a bullshit piece of paper used for a job. The true learning comes from your own self teaching. In fact, assuming you're just an undergrad math/physics major I can guarantee I know more about math/physics than you do. I absolutely love physics and math and spend my free time reading it. You learn much more than sitting through lectures with brainlets who just end up working at starbucks anyways.

>>10230566
Hindsight is 20/20, but I think its a bit late for that now

>>10230352
>Every American CS program is shit.
Who cares? america is not the world

>>10230562
>though I do go to a somewhat shitty school.

And that right there means you shouldn't be talking. Even tough majors like physics are easy at shitty schools.

>>10230576
>Shits tough at MIT
Thanks anon

>>10230562
Bruh, the idea of majoring in math is cool but actually doing it fucking sucks. Soooo boring and inconsequential.

Redpill: All math and physics worth doing happens at the PhD level in engineering departments. Pure math/physics people know their lives work culminates to nothingness.

>>10230591
My life will probably culminate to nothingness anyways so it would be nice to have something other than myself to blame

98% of cs majors will be code monkeys and you don't need a cs degree to be a code monkey. You will also be replaced nearly instantly by a Pajeet.

Is it time for CS major coding?

>>10230601
>tfw he fell for this meme
>tfw he believes everything he hears on the internet

>>10230566
>Plenty of people do CS/math

And almost all of them half ass the math major.

>>10230574
seething

CS major here, can confirm, I had only one "Computer Architecture" course that and it was a complete joke, they tried to cram as much shit as possible from digital logic, computer organization and advanced architectures without going in-depth into any of it.

The theory courses were even more laughable, my Theory of Comptation was 70% baby automata, 20% computability and 10% complexity theory. The last two were admittedly kinda fun, too bad they didn't go beyond and most of the course consisted of menial tasks like "design a dfa that recognizes x language" or "convert this nfa-e to a dfa".

Fuck this meme major, I wish I did something more interesting like math, physics, ee or even cpe.

>>10230606

>>10230617

100% true

I looked at my local state universities CS curriculum and it's terrible compared to the EECE curriculum.

CS only takes up to Calc II, lmao.

>>10229845
> 138 verified
Anything below 140 makes you subhuman scum
When the Evolution Revolution comes you will be swiftly castrated by the Eugenics Police Force and I will laugh. Do not breed, semi-sentient trash.

>>10230011
>shittons of money
>150k
lol, martin shkreli would laugh at you. my boy made 200 million profit in 6 years

>>10229629
What if I just want to make money, where do I go

I'll just laugh and get my 6 figure salary where mid 5 figures is more than enough with my cs-economics meme degree in the meme field of ML
meanwhile all the /sci/fags will cry "n-not a real degree!"

>>10230672
>degrees are jobs

dats some severe brainletism

>>10230678
you are literally retarded if you can't get a decent job with a cs degree

so for non-brainlets they are.

>>10230462
>precalculus is a weedout course
>im sure your school is so trash that you found precalculus easy
lel

>>10229845
138 is still "just a smart person" tier.
Not a genius.

>>10229772
you can be a DUMB mother fucker and still get straight As

>>10229629
I believe there to be a grain of truth, but OP exagerates.

I'm studying as a first year CS student and talent is much harder to find than I could imagine. I vividly recall one of our professors at the beginning of the year commenting "Differently to other majors (physics, math, ...) grad statistics are somehow worse" going on to tell how many of the students are rejected each year on average.

That said, if we measure according to the actual lessons' contents CS approaches a standard science curriculum, but I personally don't see it particularly representative of science fields in general.

>>10230837
By the way, at my Italian CS department we do Real Analysis rather than bare Calculus during the first two semesters, with proof reasoning. I can't say whether that's common even abroad.

>>10230606
>>10230617
>>10230620
can I show you my binary heap

>>10230357
what's the hardest you've ever worked on something?

>>10230837
>I believe there to be a grain of truth, but OP exagerates.

it's really no exaggeration. the classes are huge, the program is huge. there are so many people in it but so few of them are ever going to be decent computer scientists. it wasn't always like this either.

it can be hard to recognize potential. some people have a lot of latent talent. but there are many who most certainly don't have the talent for it. it's not that i think they shouldn't be there. you can't fault someone for wanting to better themselves. but they shouldn't get a free pass just because they attend.

nearly every professor farms out their duties to a team of underpaid assistants. they wouldn't be able to handle these class sizes any other way. but cuomo needs his indentured servants, so i fully expect this dysfunctional monolith to grow even larger and consequently even more disorganized.

>>10231125
>underpaid assistants

actually, they're often unpaid or even have to pay to be a TA (it counts as a course). i kid you not.

the department leans on TAs pretty heavily, and the quality of grad students is also on the decline. many of them did their undergrad work somewhere else. i've had to answer really simple questions for masters students taking grad level courses. real simple shit that anyone with an ounce of sense or experience could have figured out.

to make matters worse, most of them are FOB and cannot speak fluent english by any reasonable definition of the word "fluent". this communication barrier causes a lot of misunderstandings. they're supposed to take a proficiency test, but i have to think it's a very low bar.

many of the professors who really knew what they were talking about are no longer there. it's just a total shit show all the way around.

i remember my TAs as an undergraduate. they knew what they were talking about. they took it seriously. they were not hacks, they seemed to me like model grad students. it's weird how a place can change like that in just a few years.

>>10229875
>pattern matching skillz
>literally what STEM is

>>10230616

Then why did you enroll into computer science, in the first place? You are supposed to enroll to computer science if you want to be a computer scientist who works on computer science research, not to learn programming, and not to just get a degree for the sake of getting a degree. Computer science is a legitimate field, and is the reason you have a computer in front of you right now.

>>10229970
what are mathematical "sciences"? Is that math or what?

>>10230569
>I absolutely love physics and math and spend my free time reading it.
>reading math and physics

>>10229772
>smarter than the typical person -> not stupid

>>10230054
you can't just say that without telling us your story. Isn't business the most common degree? How'd you get to where you are? How did you stand out?

>>10230011
how are you paying $900 a month in the Bay? Which company pays $150k to fresh grads?

>>10230343
>break into property
you mean real estate?

>>10231200
I didn't expect the theory courses to be so watered down in favor of having more code monkey courses.

>>10231125
this is a big part of why I want to go to a small university even if state unis might technically have "better' programs.

>>10230462
Dear god in heaven, precalculus in college?

>>10231340

i'm sure they're all different. i'm just telling you what i've observed. if you have the freedom to do so, visit the departments and just have a look around. is it the kind of place you'd fit in? does it look like a nice place to study or work? if the answer's "probably not" then go somewhere else if you have the option.

>>10231452

i took it in college. and the math course below that. and the one below that. i knew literally nothing about math.

>>10231203
mathematical "sciences" = {statistics, pure math, applied math, actuary}

If you want to major in CS or computer whatever, here's some good career advice: keep Trump in office to stop pajeets from coming here and stealing jerbs

seriously, everything about h1b abuse and being replaced by lower paid indians is disgusting

>>10231614

If you are a high-level developer who can speak perfect English, who can solve software problems, and who knows computer science concepts then Pajeet's pose no threat. I have had university educated computer science Pajeet's steal basic, uncomplicated software of mine and claim it as their own as they were unable to develop it themselves. If Pajeet is stealing your job, you are not good.

>>10231309
>>10231309
I live in San Jose, it’s not abnormal to find $900 rent if you have housemates. A lot of new grads make 150k starting here at any big company. I work at a much less known company but they still match the big companies like google, Facebook on salary. It’s actually insane how much money people are making in software here.

>>10229657
CompE fags at my school don’t take chem at all and learn python right off the bat. They are probably comparably retarded.

>>10229918
Sounds like a shitty university. CE and EE have the exact same courses for the first 2 years. It's also a 4 year program while virtually all other majors are 3 year programs. 4 year might sound normal, but over here we have a weird system with cegep, so most people kinda do 1 year of university in cegep, so you end up with 3 year instead of 4 for a major. The only program that is longer than engineering is medical school, but they end up with a medical doctorate, not an undergraduate degree.

>>10230441
>More people get degree X than Y
>Y must be harder
You obviously don't hold a Y degree, nor an X for that matter

>>10230843
Common here in south america as well. It's mostly the americuck brainlets that learn "calculus"

>>10231854
t. engineering brainlet

>>10229629
Joggers are superior to bike riders.

Bike riders do not know what real sports are. They only use half of their body. Jogging requires you to swing with your arms.

Fuck motorcycle drivers.

>>10231963
>motorcycle drivers
Uwotm8

Also
>going slow

>>10230338
Why would I need maths, a comouter can do that for me.

You are as pathetic as somebody being proud how good he can navigate without maps.

It is 2018. There are computers an smartphones everywhere. It is not about being able to do what the computer does, but about being able to tell the computer what it has to do the quickest.

>>10231909
You will never make money or contribute to science or technology. Imagine being such a brainlet that you think engineering is more popular because it's supposedly easy. Perhaps interesting subject matter, very well developed and promoted programs, and good earning prospects cause eng to be more popular?

Do you have ANY degree?

>>10232041
>interesting subject matter

>>10232041
*sigh* Engineers are so cringe-worthy.

>>10232041
>You will never make money

wages are going down for engineers you retard. the market is oversaturated with dumbfucks because so many recent graduates and foreigners are available for hire.

>>10232066
There are a lot of jobs here in Europe

>>10232069
Not here in the UK. It's difficult to find a job and it will be even more difficult to look elsewhere because brexiter retards fucked us over.

>>10232105

Damn, I feel bad for you guys. Brexiters are so fucking stupid. They're like our rural Republican retards.

>>10232041
They're just brainlets who cope by thinking majoring in math or physics gives them a proxy IQ of 130.

Engineering is enlightenment.

>>10232166
>engineering brainless laughing at physics and math
>meanwhile cs is laughing at engineering

>>10232166
cope retard

>>10229657
>ethics training is bad
t. insect

>>10232171
CS is engineering. Brainlet.

>>10232174
>t. goes to a shitty no name school
>t. still struggles through the major

Keke, the people who browse /sci/ actually think they're normal enough where this study represents them. Cope more.

>>10232184
I go to a top 25 research school. Keep crying.

>>10232178
imagine being this retarded
engineers don't even research anything

>>10232207
Have you ever gone to college?

>>10230383
EECS is CpE and not CS

>>10232217
......

I'm convinced the bulk of /sci/ is composed of 110 IQ edgy high schoolers.

>>10231973
>I don't need to learn foreign language, I always have my phone with me.

moshimoshi... watashi... aru... anon. naisu... badi.... joshi. shitai... moraru... ikutsuka... gohan.... dokoka?

>>10232223
you're probably right. it's time to pack my bags and find another forum.

>>10232223
CSE and EECS are CpE

>>10232230
Fact: CSE = CS

t. someone who studies CSE

>>10232237
Clearly you've never spoken to kids in CS programs. If you have, you would never want to be associated with those subhumans.

>>10232105
>UK
>Europe

>>10232237
I'm doing CSE, it's literally just CS with the same math and physics requirements for engineers plus an embedded systems course.

>>10232258
I can tell you're an engineer.

>>10232280
You are an inbreed retard that lives in a tiny irrelevant island, you are not european. Brexit proves how stupid british are

>>10232237
>>10232277
EE>>>>>>CpE>>>>>CSEE

>>10232280
I can tell you're American.

Programming is so easy that 90% of STEM students in this thread would not be able to develop even one piece of large useful software in their life.

>CS Major
>Makes over $100,000 out of college

OP is a faggot who's PI makes him work all the time lmao

>>10232302
Legit did a year of the core CS classes and a year of the core EE classes. CS >= EE

>>10232384
Core CS classes are piss easy, what the fuck are you talking about?

>>10232408
EE and CS are both piss easy.

>>10232415
I agree, compared to grad school both undergrad degrees are easy. CS is one of the easiest STEM majors tho.

>>10232384
The hardest classes in cs are the freshman ones.

>>10232439
>trust me, I'm a physics major

>>10232439
intro to OOP? not even close

>>10229629
Math Major here.


Currently a data analyst. I have an offer for data engineer that pays more. Is that a better career track?

>>10229885
Not exactly. Compilation and interpretation, like actual sophisticated use that theory is made around, is more language theory and understanding how to derive meaning off symbols than it is lookup. If you think about the amount of syntax vs semantics, syntax (which is the only lookup) is relatively small. Semantics is hard; you can’t make a simple table for it, unless you’re making a language with incredibly limited expression

>>10232439
These were sophomore-junior level courses. Weeder courses for the major.

>>10232439
Also, the CS major at my school gets exponentially harder as you progress.

grad school CS is a lot harder, especially if you go into cutting edge research like computational topology and quantum computing

>>10232600
>unless you’re making a language with incredibly limited expression
Which he was in his 101 programming course. Lrn2read.

>>10232769
What's with this meme of things only being as challenging as their mathematical rigor? The academic/intellectual landscape is not that simple.

>>10232435
>CS is one of the easiest STEM majors tho.
is it even easier than civil engineering?

>>10232800
Yes, civil engies at least do vector calculus and physics II, unlike cslets who only need to do precalc

>>10232800
>civil
You do half of mechanical engineering and then specialise hard into standards, practices and other high-level engineering and soft skills.
The average stem autist cannot handle that side of the discipline.

>>10232817
How do you all fall for the same meme.....

"hur dur CS majors don't even take DiffEq, brainlets"

The difficulty of a major/subject doesn't boil down to taking intro calc. and intro physics courses. Those courses are comically easy compared to average CS upper-level electives at a reputable university.

t. someone who has gone to college and studied both EE and CS

>>10232843
Civil is still more challenging, the few Mech Eng classes they do like fluid mechanics are harder than every CS class combined.

>>10232853
This is why I can't take you guys seriously. Not trying to be mean, but what kind of universities do you guys go to? Maybe there's just an enormous gap between CS programs at top schools and non-top schools.

Actually fell for the /sci/ "CS bad" meme, but then went to college and found out that it was a meme.

>>10232853
fluid mechanics is harder than every EE class too

>>10231309
Bro - you literally fell for the shitpost....

>if its not math heavy its easy!
1. all undergrad degrees are easy
2. some CS fields like ML, graphics, computational sciences (although usually interdisciplinary), etc are math heavy, likely more so than the work an average engineer does. although you do generally need to take electives to really get into these in a typical CS program
3. ignoring 1 and 2, i've worked as a TA in computational physics classes, some math/physics students are absolutely braindead when it comes to breaking down a problem into logically correct instructions. i definitely believe this can be harder than pushing symbols around on paper until you get to some known result, or at least it can be a separate skill challenging in its own way

>>10232871
>i struggled
>therefore my school must be god tier and not that im a brainlet

>>10232904

not op, but i can confidently say that it's not worth taking compsci at my school. it may be different for you, but i would strongly advise against taking CS at my uni.

>>10232993

If your CS program is accredited by ABET, you're good.

>>10233025

i don't know what that is, but regardless it is not good in its current state.

>>10233025
>>10233047

also, ABET is apparently headquartered in baltimore, a very niggerlicious and terrible city.

If undergrad, of any field, isn't trivial to you then you should rethink your career in academia. The only thing you should be learning in undergrad is how to learn. Harder more rigorous topics get that through your head sooner and to a much greater degree than softer ones.

CS deserves all the shit it gets. They aren't excused because some universities have rigor. Shit universities produce programmers (and to a much greater volume), good universities produce researchers, it's always been this way, and it likely always will.

I failed pharmacy school and now I want to study CS. Should I do a bootcamp or get a degree? I genuinely want to learn enough programming to be able to also incorporate them into personal projects.

>>10233063
https://github.com/ossu/computer-science

Save your money.

>>10233066
Seems legit, but what about finding a job? Without credentials I doubt anyone will hire me.

>>10232968
My school is objectively top tier though...

>>10233074
Better off getting a degree. Unless you're extremely gifted and motivated you'll probably never learn CS at the level where you can get a respectable software engineering job. Legit, it's harder than you think.

>>10233074
Most companies require credentials (technical degree, preferably CS). I think the no degree hiring only happens at really hip companies or if you're just overwhelmingly high aptitude. If you want a real job, I recommend the degree.

>>10233082
Thanks for that, literally nobody has given me a straight fucking answer to that question and I've been asking it ever since I dropped out of Pharm.D.

>>10233074
If you want to have a career in CS you should probably get a degree in it, but if you're just trying to learn enough to do personal projects than don't. Just remember to use your time in school to network and ingratiate yourself.

>>10233092
>If you want to have a career in CS you should probably get a degree in it

math major compsci minor. taking a cs major is pointless.

I like programming and I like indian food? so win win for me a I guess?

I agree a CS in general is easy. I'm majoring in it and so far nothing they have introduced has been new to me except my general education courses but I don't count those since there there just to line the Uni's pockets. Most of the Math I learned in HS. Same with the Physics. And I've been writing basic C programs since I was like 12 (my dad got me into programming really early). From what I can tell of the people who say "CS is hard" havent done anything remotely related to it prior to their degree. I'm hoping the upper div stuff is more interesting but I dont really go to a good school so I doubt it. I think I'll probably just double major in math since its not too many additional classes and I do mostly graphics related stuff which is 90% math anyway.

>>10233094
>>10233095
why not both like this guy?

>>10233094
It's easy, and it gets you a job. The guy says he failed pharmacy and wants to study CS. CS degree is an easier way to do that than a math degree with a CS minor.

>>10233104

because there are only a very small handful of cs courses worth taking, and you will likely be better served by taking math, and just cherry picking some of the better cs courses, if your uni will let you do that.

>>10233094
>math major
>taking a cs major is pointless

CS minor doesn't cut it, being real. You'd be better off with a CS major and math minor/hobby. There's probably a pretty significant deficit in your knowledge of CS with just a minor. Would be hard to get a legit software engineering job unless you're extremely talented.

>>10233147
>There's probably a pretty significant deficit in your knowledge of CS with just a minor.

such as? what are you really missing out on? let's say you get to take 10 cs courses. that's 3-4 programming courses, 1-2 algorithms courses, maybe 1 theory course, and then you still have around four courses to play with.

>>10233155
At my school, if you do the minor, you lack a theory course, an architecture course, and four upper-levels, which I think is pretty significant. Can slide by with a minor while knowing very little about CS/software engineering (big picture/how the internet works/how operating systems work/how networks work/how websites work/working on large projects with a team). Basically, you'll only be at the level of a low-level front-end code monkey.

>>10233147
>t. brainlet

>>10233147

>>10229629
>REAL science

The only REAL science is voyeurism. Prove me wrong.

>>10233192
Yes, an exchange in the comment section of YouTube. The first guy probably works as a code monkey. For the second guy, I'm sure his linguistics friend does not program at the level of a career software engineer, which more broadly speaking is systems engineering.

I don't deny you can become a software engineer without a CS degree; I just believe it requires an extreme amount of aptitude (130~140 IQ) and motivation. The hardest part about getting to the level of software engineer is spending 100s of hours drudging through difficult projects that teach you the fundamentals. Anyone who works at a top software engineering company without a formal CS education is extremely intelligent and motivated, an outlier on the bell curve.

My point is: Probably no one in this thread is actually that talented, so just get the degree.

>>10233212
Also, just because you study math or physics, doesn't mean you have a proxy IQ of 130. The other half of the equation is having the requisite motivation to spend 100s of hours on some pretty boring material (very difficult).

>>10233197
It's not a science, it's an art.

>>10232462
yes/ learn some meme languages and get social skills so you can become a data scientist.

>>10233050
god I hope you're not an engineer.

>>10233074
there are sites like triplebyte

>>10229970
>CS
Enjoy working in a field being flooded by smelly Pajeet curryniggers, hahhahahahaha

>>10229629
I wanna like... make alot of money yet have an easy job chillin at a computer.. what do i major in??

>>10229629
I suppose math is truly superior, but I have grown to hate the engineering students at my university of technology. They always whine about everything like
>why do we engineers have to know a teeny tiny bit of OOP programming?
>programming is so hard!
>the exam for engineers consists of a multiple choice test
>everything we engineers do is so hard!
>why do people actually expect us to be competent?

The worst part is, this multiple choice test for their programming course has 4 possible answers per question. They may either only choose 1 answer and get 3 points, choose 2 answers and get two points or choose 3 out of those 4 possible answers and still get 1 point if the right answer is one of those 3.
I'd also argue that my CS math courses are harder than theirs.

>>10233484
I wanna like... bang a hot wife and make a lot of lolis.. what do i major in??

>>10229657
I'm a CS major and in my first year I'm being taught C++ and eventually Data structures. I took a non-Compsci Discrete Math Class as well. Am I in a position where I can easily transition to Computer Engineering?

>>10233752
What school? Did you take Freshman Physics and Calculus? Worst case, you can usually get permission to take engineering courses before being formally allowed to transfer in...

>>10233760
CU Boulder, I took AP physics and AP Calc in my Junior year

>>10233173
>you lack a theory course, an architecture course, and four upper-levels, which I think is pretty significant

the theory courses are important but if you have a decent math background you could probably read through sipser or another intro text during summer/winter vacation and save yourself a few grand.

architecture- it depends on what you mean by architecture. if you mean cpu architecture and related, then you have a point. my architecture course was very good, the professor was one of the best professors there at the time. this and a good OS course are important, but i really don't call upon that knowledge very often, and i'd probably have been better off taking another math course like diff eq.

>>10231125
>there are so many people in it but so few of them are ever going to be decent computer scientists

Anon from >>10230837. Yeah I fully agree; we are around 150 in my classes and probably just 15-20 of those (if I myself am included) are really worth something. Many others seem to just have found something that didn't look too difficult but could fill their pockets.

What I posit though is that if properly done, a CS currilum can get not only hard, but even a stimulating experience. It is not as dull many of the students that inhabit these courses.

>>10231903
Is that really so on average? I have seen some aspiring engineers panicking because most courses have a Real Analysis I and II courses, plus Physics I and II in my country.

>>10233958
Lol sisper is basic bitch theory. I dunno why everyone looks to that book and thinks it’s the holy grail of theoretical CS. Such a book hasn’t been written yet. You usually have to dig through papers to get to the really good stuff

I'm still learning how to type without looking. Once I get that down, it's CpE all the way!

>>10234206

it was just an example. read whatever book you like. sipser is commonly used for intro-level courses on theory, and accessible enough for a math major to study on their own, in lieu of taking the class as a compsci major.

>>10233958
>i'd probably have been better off taking another math course like diff eq
Why? Taking diff eq is completely useless as a CS major. Just self-learn it.

Math really isn't important as a software engineer/programmer, especially calculus. Just know basic discrete math and some algorithmic paradigms.

>>10234329
Idk this whole meme of you can self-learn CS but you can't self-learn math. If you fall for this, you're a fucking certified brainlet.

Also, at good universities, the theoretical CS professors and math professors work together. A large chunk of useful applied math research (contributes to humanity) happens through the EECS department. Some in CS and some in EE.

>>10234349
Yes, you can self learn anything that doesn't require a lab, the thing with CS is that self learning the material covered in a typical undergrad program takes a trivial amount of time compared to something like math because the requirements are so easy, to learn undergrad computability and complexity you only need high school algebra for example.

>>10234368
Are you in high school?

If you've ever taken serious math or CS courses at a reputable university, you'd know it's easier to learn math on your own. Learning math is just reading through a book and working on problems in the book (all math courses), with a standard progression of calculus + lin alg + proofs -> higher-level math electives.

The CS/software engineering landscape is pretty difficult to navigate on your own, especially what kinds of large projects to dedicate ~30-60 hours on, a lot of them useless ad hoc, toy projects that no one would ever go out of their way to do on their own or even think up. Also, very difficult to know if every aspect of this project is working correctly without an auto-grader.

>>10234368
>trivial amount of time compared to something like math
This is what I disagree with you on. It's naive to think the difficulty/time consumption of a major/field of study reduces to the level of mathematical rigor. Math isn't even important for software engineers (most CS majors intend to become), so having a lower mathematical barrier of entry doesn't even matter.

>>10234394
Both are difficult to navigate desu. A serious math student will start taking graduate classes coming in, and those tend to present advanced/state-of-the-art material that would be hard to learn without at least some guidance.

Are any of you guys actually in college or do you just enjoy making shit up to shitpost

>>10234441
>a serious math student will start taking graduate classes coming in

Depends on the school, and what is considered "graduate" level, but very very very very few. 99% of top math students end up in an honors sequence that goes through proof based calculus/lin alg for the first two years. Maybe will take one or two low-barrier of entry graduate courses as a sophomore (combinatorics/probability?).

>>10234487
*Actually, I'd say 95%.

>>10234487
>Maybe will take one or two low-barrier of entry graduate courses as a sophomore (combinatorics/probability?)
Additionally, I don't even think these courses are research based. Even if you're a talented math student, you're probably not taking research level math courses until maybe senior year.

>>10234329
>>10234349

you can learn software design patterns and all the little features of java,c++ or whatever on the job, you don't need a class for these things.

what if you want a programming job where you have to work with engineers? what if you're programming something that does signal-processing? what if you're writing a scientific tool? having sufficient mathematical background is just as important for prospective software engineers as it is for prospective researchers.

>>10234451
both tbqh

>>10234487
Weird. Around a third of math students at my school do this, and a third do proof-based lin alg/analysis in the first year and move onto advanced undergrad electives.

>>10229629
lol I'm studying to be a food scientist. U guys mad?

>>10234546
cont.

i'm not saying cs is a meme degree, but there are so many "filler" classes and classes whose content is just as domain-specific as any math course you could take.

>>10234546
>what if you want a programming job where you have to work with engineers? what if you're programming something that does signal-processing? what if you're writing a scientific tool? having sufficient mathematical background is just as important for prospective software engineers as it is for prospective researchers.

and what about video/audio stuff? how many comp sci students can even understand the .jpg compression algorithm? how many of them understand mpeg-1? how many of them know know the basics of geometry that you'd need for writing a 3d video game? affine transforms, projection, etc.

virtually none of them. it's pitiful.

so to say that you don't need math beyond discrete algebra is patently false. maybe if all you ever want to do is design websites or whatever.

and most of the people i know who graduated with a BA in compsci went on to work a help desk or do IT, so what does that tell you?

>>10234608
And most people I know didn't get a "BA" in compsci but a BSc, and half of them went to around top 50 companies and the other half went to grad school for either math or CS. What does that tell you? Anecdotes aren't very powerful in this case

>>10234603
What do you mean by discrete algebra? As in, basic algebra you learn in middle school or abstract algebra? The latter is used a lot in slightly higher level CS since a lot of things around compilers and such depend heavily on understanding structure (hamming comes to mind)

>>10234628
>Anecdotes aren't very powerful in this case

my anecdote was just the cherry on the cake. what about all the other points i made?

>>10234601
That's the reason computer engineering exists and why is objectively superior.

>>10234633
discrete math. just basic set theory and logic, taught in the context of computer science. most compsci programs have some such course.

>>10234639

>>10234603
You're just wrong. The things you've mentioned are very niche and don't require innovation outside of niche researchers, and if software engineers have to do them, they'll just have to learn the math on their own (so rare that it doesn't justify having these courses in their curriculum other than as a formality). Contrary to /sci/'s meme, learning a subset of sophomore level mathematics isn't very difficult. Idk why people think you need a professor to hold your hand in order to traverse mathematics, when the professor is just restating what's in the textbook.

Redpill: All mathematics beyond sophomore year/level mathematics is useless outside of esoteric research circles/applications.

The arguments in this entire thread are pointless. A good student will take good classes and do whatever if they want to do grad school for serious topics. CS and math in grad school are arbitrarily separable, and theory CS departments collab all the time with math departments (and vice versa) to tackle hard problems. The problem is that /sci/ places too much emphasis on what major you choose and less on the classes you took and research you were a part of. Nobody cares about the name of your background unless you want to do work with just a bachelors, which is all mostly boring.

Sidenote: 10 times out of 10, the student who took harder classes despite having the choice to take easier classes is gonna be more motivated, push himself harder, and go farther than someone who was content in choosing something where the requirements made them feel like they were enough. The people who work to go above and beyond, regardless of major, go far, especially in academia.

>>10234608
You went to a community college.

>>10234643

CCs are two-year colleges. you can't earn a bachelors from one.

>>10234628
Don't listen to this kid; he probably goes to Devry University.

All the CS kids at my school, work at Fortune 500 companies and make 90~110k starting.

>>10234642
None of that makes CS less of a meme, motivated students exist literally in every major even if they're the 0.0001%.

>>10234639
Lol, any graphics, basic information theory, etc. class covers this stuff. Engineering majors get some sigproc in there, but looking up transforms from a table isn't the same as knowing information theory. The truth is actually that most people in the field come out of some grad program

>>10234640
Before anyone brings out the meme Rosen book, I had a discrete math class, but it was taught from professor's notes and all proof based. Set theory and logic were like the first week. I'm pretty sure this is just preening at this point. Either that, or you go to a bad school. We ended up on affine spaces for compiler parallelization and proofs of correctness by the end of my class.

>>10234641
Software developers aren't computer scientists. You would be surprised how many things that are non-discrete aren't niche at all. Regardless, even if there are discrete structures, actually proving your way around structures that are even the tiniest bit more complex than the basic bitch arrays, linked lists, basic graphs, etc. is hard and requires lots of study. van Emde Boas trees for external streaming and memory, cartesian trees for linear string manipulation, etc. etc. The implications of these structures are fairly deep, and I've yet to see CpE majors touch anything close to proofs. No, your microprocessor class doesn't give you insight on how to solve hard problems.

At the end of the day, this is mostly just posturing. I double majored in math and CS at a school that was top 15 for both, and focusing in theory in CS (though with a lot of systems + some graphics there) was a near match in difficulty in my math degree. Things leveled out in grad school, which is to say that there's no appreciable difference between theoretical CS and math aside from maybe motivation.

>>10234650
CS isn't a meme because in the schools it is taught well in (e.g. any well ranked research school), it's taught very well. Theoreticians that come out of CS are by far some of the highest quality. I was skeptical until I saw the work in computable analysis, which appealed to me a lot since I'm an analysisfag. CS is fine; students are lazy.

>>10234667
Forgetting to add: CS is also not a meme as a field. There's a reason why it reigns in massive amounts of research funding, and why its theory shows up in almost every other academia field eventually

>>10234661
>Lol, any graphics, basic information theory, etc. class covers this stuff. Engineering majors get some sigproc in there, but looking up transforms from a table isn't the same as knowing information theory. The truth is actually that most people in the field come out of some grad program

>Implying the average CS program require this.
See >>10230409

>>10234661

most colleges are not top 15 colleges. of course top-tier colleges are going to do it right. that's not what we're talking about.

>>10234642
This.

/sci/ places so much emphasis on association with major because they think majoring in math/physics gives them a 130 proxy IQ. I'd imagine this is how they cope with going to a subpar school/never accomplishing much. I can't imagine a significant chunk of people who hangout here are "winners." The legitimately smart kids I knew who studied math had nothing but reverence for CS, while the kids who struggled coped by manifesting an "ego by association."

Keke at kids who think knowing math means they can learn any other subject in a matter of weeks.

>>10234678
You've encountered a meme university's meme program. I (and many other academics) don't care about ACM's guidelines because all ACM does for us is give out funding and store some of our papers, which use the math they claimed in 2013 wouldn't be "foundational," stupid as that is. My old undergrad required linalg, calc 3, discrete math, and data structures just to be accepted into the program. Not sure what else people are saying

>>10234680
I've visited top 30 colleges, and while sometimes their theory isn't as strong as I'd like it to be, they're not bad. I'd say top 25 is a good metric for the "good" CS programs.
>That's not what we're talking about
Oh, but it is. People want to call CS a meme that you can self study much more easily than anything else. "Actual" CS isn't like that. So there has to be a distinction between actual CS and meme CS. This board makes no such distinction in favor of showing off.

>>10234685
I mean, I love math, which is why I love theoretical CS. It's just a fun subject, even though my main love is and will always be analysis (though that shows up in CS too). At the end of the day, undergrads will be undergrads. I became disillusioned at the prestige of undergrad engineering after taking the E&M class that was required for both CS and engineering students during my time as undergrad (for CS, 3 sem of physics, 2 sem of lab was the science requirement). The EE majors were the worst at anything related to basic electrodynamics. Bragging about your major is something you do either when everything is going well or when everything has gone to shit, and guessing by the core demographic of 4chan, I'm more inclined to believe it's the latter

>>10234698
>Oh, but it is. People want to call CS a meme that you can self study much more easily than anything else. "Actual" CS isn't like that. So there has to be a distinction between actual CS and meme CS. This board makes no such distinction in favor of showing off.
Read OP, this thread is about not majoring in CS because these programs are a meme, not because CS, the discipline is a meme.

>>10234698
>My old undergrad required linalg, calc 3, discrete math, and data structures just to be accepted into the program.
Is this supposed to be impressive? Also no one cares if a CS program requires calc 3, all your meme CS core classes only need precalculus.

>>10234709
"Computer Science is for people *too stupid* for engineering, mathematics, and *real* science"

>CS programs barely scratch the surface in TCS and they only require you to do precalculus.

I agree that the required classes only scratch the surface. I don't agree that even the shittier programs require precalc. Majoring in CS is a meme when you're not in top 25. Many people in this thread are trying to demonstrate that it's a meme, period, regardless of what OP said.

>>10234698
>People want to call CS a meme that you can self study much more easily than anything else.

i'm not calling CS a meme, i'm saying that in an average college, you may be better served taking a math major and cs minor, even if you want to be a software engineer.

>>10234716
Lol no. It's literally just an admissions requirements, so they're just foundational. However, linear algebra is more than most engineering majors can say since they pick up some basic matrix operations and eigenvalue computation, but ABET doesn't require actual linalg class despite it being the basic of matlab. Funny.

>all your meme CS core classes only need precalculus
They do? That's news to me. Computer architecture was a lot of Kmaps and some basic digital signal processing, sure, but algorithms? I didn't use integral calculus for summation upper bounds? I didn't take incredibly ugly limits that showed up again when I took analysis later on? I didn't use linear algebra for the entire numerical analysis classes? I didn't heavily use series convergences for runtime proofs? This is still only scratching the surface, but it goes on.

>>10234706
>I became disillusioned at the prestige of undergrad engineering after taking the E&M class that was required for both CS and engineering students

Physics 2? Imo engineering gets hard at the sophomore-junior level. Took my school's EE electromagnetics course and it was pretty legit/rigorous.

>>10234727
>I didn't use integral calculus for summation upper bounds? I didn't take incredibly ugly limits that showed up again when I took analysis later on? I didn't use linear algebra for the entire numerical analysis classes? I didn't heavily use series convergences for runtime proofs? This is still only scratching the surface, but it goes on.
The average CS program doesn't do any of that, algorithms classes there cover baby stuff like the master theorem and basic big-o notation.

>>10234728
I took advanced sigproc with special permission from the communications professor in the ECE department since I was doing research on algebraic signal processing (abstract algebra, not "discrete, basic" algebra). They weren't better there either. Physics 2 was just the start of my incredible skepticism towards this apparent "difficulty" of the major and its inherent "quality" of students.

Hur dur my gender studies major required algebraic geometry, algebraic topology, and quantum field theory. Get mogged faggots. -/sci/

>>10234731
I was responding to the other anon who was trying to say I only used precalc in my core requirements. As far as I've seen from my friends and I (we're all within top 30 for undergrad back then anyway), master theorem was at most 3 lectures. Big-O was something you learned in data structures. Some people had classes heavy on NP completeness and the various applications of the SAT problem. Some people had combinatorics heavy problems. It really depends on your school's speciality.

>>10234742
The problem with that strawman is that unlike gender studies, you actually use algebra and topology in any CS worth studying.

>>10234732
>since I was doing research on algebraic signal processing
To be fair, that's a pretty big advantage in the course, which would cloud your judgement on the difficulty of the course.

>>10234756
I also think the hard part about studying engineering is that it's an amalgam of science, math, and technology. So, you can't just autistically zero in on one of them. I'd imagine sig proc would seem pretty trivial from a hardcore mathematics background, but that's only one mathematically idealized aspect of engineering.

>>10234756
Admittedly, yeah. Though, I guess my point is to hammer home that anyone who *actually gives a shit* about math and science should know that CS is as hard as you make it. I lot of my bitterness comes from how in grad school, an appreciation for a wide range of topics is applauded (though you should hyperfocus, having application and theory that touches many fields is heavily encouraged), but in undergrad, it's always this stupid rat race to be in "the best major" and have "the hardest education" by choosing that best major. People should have long since realized that the responsibility to take hard classes and challenge yourself should come from a drive from within yourself, not from the requirements in your degree.

>>10234749
>The problem with that strawman is that unlike gender studies, you actually use algebra and topology in any CS worth studying.

>>10234764
Eh, I think that with enough motivation, you can move from one place to any other place. People who autistically zero in on the math do EE grad school for singals (I'm in contact with 3 postdocs who have done this). It comes down to your disciplines and how much you care. Engineering, the actual act of making something, is hard. Learning other peoples' engineering is not. On that note, actual engineering (to the extent I've done personal projects with my own resources, partly with the school's) is a lot of fun.

>>10234767
>People should have long since realized that the responsibility to take hard classes and challenge yourself should come from a drive from within yourself, not from the requirements in your degree.

>>10234768
Computational topology is huge in robotics (think actually making decisions on how to move across a surface. Control theory alone can't solve that decision problem) Algebra shows up whenever you need to generalize structures that show up in subfields of CS.


>>10234784
are you going to make a point, or are you just gonna keep up the greentext?

>>10234768
ironically
>>10234784
unironically

>>10234786
>Computational topology is huge in robotics (think actually making decisions on how to move across a surface. Control theory alone can't solve that decision problem) Algebra shows up whenever you need to generalize structures that show up in subfields of CS.
You are proving OP's point that math is superior, CS programs never require topology.

>>10234796
I mean, in addendum to my previous point, I think anyone *actually* serious about CS should double major, since the problem is that:

1) if you go to a good school, you want good CS fundamentals from good CS researchers
2) You also want the mathematical maturity. In a good CS program, that comes from the foundations, but to do specialized fields, you want exposure to much more math (before grad school CS stomps you)

So yeah, I suppose double majoring is the best course of action. However, I did have robotics and computational robotics classes that had lectures on topology because surface deformation was very important in the material. But I do see your point.

>>10234804
If you need to double major, to make the degree usefull, then the degree is shit. You can easily learn about CS on your own without many problems.

>>10234810
Nah, I don't think it's *necessary* per say, but that it's heavily recommended. Again, you're talking to resident analysisfag, so of course I'm gonna recommend taking more math (and taking a major that exposes you to more continuous math to boot)
There are plenty of CS only majors who make excellent theorists/mathematicians later in their career. As much as a meme on his opinions on women and romance are, Scott Aaronson is one of those people and leads complexity theory in physical sciences from the theory CS department.

You can self study anything you want without many problems, period, so long as your disciplines are strong enough.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tadashi_Tokieda

/sci/ btfo'd. tfw just major in art and linguistics.

>>10234845
tfw Witten majored in History

>>10234845
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tadashi_Tokieda
I loved his topology lectures! He got me interested in actually reading the textbooks and going further. The guy's so cool

>>10234819
It really depends, if you want to work, you can learn CS stuff and get work even without a degree. Engineering requires you to have a degree, at least in my country, but I'm sure that in America people can't work as a Civil eng. or EE without a degree. I agree that you can learn almost anything on your own, so you could easily learn more than the average EE/CS grad (specially if American, since their undergrad programs are shit).
The problem is that you shouldnt have to do 2 majors (CS/Math) to get a decent understanding of your field and get into research (since most CS research is basically just math). Also, doing two degrees is expensive (if your country has not free education), and takes you a fair amount of extra time.
I think that, if you want to get into CS research, you should do CS and learn math on your own, since depending on which CS research field interest you, you wouldnt need all these math classes (for example, ML is just stats, robotics requires control teory/topology, some are just discrete math, etc.).

>>10234893
>specially if American, since their undergrad programs are shit
I can ensure you US schools oblivion mog your shitty foreign schools, even at the undergraduate level. Don't get it twisted. Smh, foreigners always trying to cop an ego.

>since most CS research is basically just math
Closer to engineering than math.

>>10234917
>Closer to engineering than math
Depends on your subfield. All theoretical CS is math without any appreciable differences. Systems, which deals more heavily with hardware interactions, solving problems for general purpose machines, organization, architecture, etc. etc. is closer to engineering. However, it's really not closer to engineering "as a field." It's too big for that. CS came out of both math and engineering. Nowadays, even on a more fundamental theoretical level, CS has connections to physics (not in a "i'll run a simulation experiment" way, but a "complexity theory explains why certain interactions happen in specific ways")

>>10234394
>The CS/software engineering landscape is pretty difficult to navigate on your own, especially what kinds of large projects to dedicate ~30-60 hours on, a lot of them useless ad hoc, toy projects that no one would ever go out of their way to do on their own or even think up. Also, very difficult to know if every aspect of this project is working correctly without an auto-grader.

You're just a brainlet dude.

>>10234917
>I can ensure you US schools oblivion mog your shitty foreign schools, even at the undergraduate level. Don't get it twisted. Smh, foreigners always trying to cop an ego.
I have american coworkers and they admitted that their EE undergrad was bullshit.

>>10234935
Nah, it just takes a greater amount of organization, research, and motivation to learn the equivalent of a CS degree compared to a math degree.

Maybe if you just want to be some shitty front-end code monkey, you can get away with a half-ass effort.

>>10234917
I'm 100% sure that the average european student is way better than the average american student.

>>10234969
Yeah, on average, but as you go up the bell curve the US dominates. US top 20% > European top 20%

>>10233958
Wtf? Are there CS majors who don’t take diff eq? How do you solve engineering problems without Diffy lmao

>>10234995
by calling an engineer

>>10234784
This, any degree can be as hard or easy as you want it to be. There are smart and dumb people in all fields. It’s what you make of it

>>10235000
No seriously, I have a CS degree and every CS major at my school took diff eq. I can’t imagine any engineering program that doesn’t require it.

>>10234985
Pure delusion. Students from MIT don't even need to take Real Analysis. There is a reason why top american universities (at undergraduate level) are full of asians, women and indians, and very few europeans. Why would I need to travel that far away when I can attend the college at my country where our undergrad programs are better, and completly free? There is also the culture difference, american culture is dull and vapid, the 3 years I studied there for grad school (got a scholarship) were really depressing, and couldn't wait to come back to Europe. The only good thing of studying there was the connections I made.

>>10235009
CS is not engineering.

>>10235015

CS is engineering, but the nature of the problems it solves doesn't require DiffEq.

Discrete vs. Continuous

>>10235015
CS is engineering, but the nature of the problems it solves doesn't require DiffEq.

Discrete vs. Continuous

>>10235027
CS has the broadest domain of problems. Plenty of code is written to solve continuous problems

>>10235027
It's not, you can't get an engineering job and sign off on documents that require an engineer with a comp Sci degree.

>>10235011
>Students from MIT don't even need to take Real Analysis.

Why would an engineer need to take Real Analysis? Idk why there's this meme of taking irrelevant, superfluous classes means your major/school is hardcore.

>>10235038
>Why would an engineer need to take Real Analysis?
Holy fuck

>>10235037
I don't think being able to sign off on some papers is a good metric for what constitutes engineering.

Engineering is using principles from math, science, and technology to solve problems.

>>10235046
Can you flunk physics and still be a good computer scientist? Yes.

Ergo, not engineering.

>>10235042
>>10235042
calculus + proofs = real analysis

Why would engineers need to prove calculus, when that time would be better spent on other things, like progressing faster through mathematics or doing applied problems?

It doesn't make sense other than to win dick measuring contests.

>>10235048
Really can't tell if you're trolling. A field being "engineering," is not conditional on using physics. Things that use no physics at all can still be engineering. A lot of applied math falls under "engineering." You could even use no math or physics and still be considered engineering, as long as you solve problems using technology/ingenuity.

Pretty abstract concept (+130 IQ required to understand).

>>10230853
I spent 3 years working on a fangame, which involved me often staying up 3 days in a row to grind out work on it, which I still soemtimes do when I get involved in doing research on mesoamerican stuff.

At one time on the game I was overworking myself so hard I basically passed out and got sick and had to stay in bed for a week.

>>10230392
I mean I don't really care about making a lot of moeny, but I want to be able to support myself. And history/anthropology is really, really an unwise career decision, even people with PHD's from harvard often can't find work, and i'm not even close to being at that point, and i'm poor as fuck to begin with.

I'd really rather be doing something i'm interested in not make much money then work in the trades and earn a comfortable wage, but I still ned to be able to find a fucking job to begin with

>>10235068
>You could even use no math or physics and still be considered engineering, as long as you solve problems using technology/ingenuity.
So is IT engineering too?

>>10235055
>Why would engineers need to prove calculus
>time would be better spent on other things
>like progressing faster through mathematics

>>10235042 >>10235055 >>10235130

Engineers in Europe learn real analysis (with + proofs).
In France, UK, Germany, Russia, etc.

Lmao at the state of Amerimutt Engineers' Education.

>>10235561
and what would be the point of learning real analysis with proofs for an engineer you fucking retard?

i mean i realize you're a larper who probably didn't even finish high school. but damn, at least try to come up with better trolling material.

if you can make it through physics, all engineering fields are easy as fuck

>>10229657
>>10229629

We might be lower IQ than mathfags and engineerfags but we still make more money than you. Stay mad buddy boyo.

>>10235710
Not him, in Germany all engineers learn analysis in the 1st year of undergrad.

>>10234565
Depends. Can you make a mean lasagna?