/sci/ - Science & Math

>>10206966
Getting a PhD is not a waste of time and money. Prove me wrong. Pro tip: you can’t.

>>10206966
>good salary
>do the thing you love
>frequent human interaction

>>10207016
>>frequent human interaction
Nooooooooo

>>10206966
>im not talented enough to research my area of specialization so ive convinced myself it's a waste of time
>prove me wrong

>>10207016
>good salary
Most PhDs dont make any more than a business manager or engineer yet it requires years more of time spent in education.

>do the thing you love
If teaching elementary material to a bunch of unmotivated undergrads is what you love then damn, I feel sorry for you

>>10206972
>>10207016
>>10207022
>t. salty grad students who hate their lives but deny it anyway

>>10207026
im an undergrad but you dont have to be a genius to see through the mirage of insecurity

>>10207022
>I can’t do research as a spook for the Feds or in private industry

>>10207028
>insecure for pointing out spending years in bullshit academia is a waste when I can be making more money and be doing cooler work elsewhere

>>10207031
my point is that your "cooler work elsewhere" could be on campus for other, more driven, people. I would also say that not everyone is driven by money, but this is something that people like you dont understand tbqh

STEM PhDs are about as valuable as bachelor's degrees in humanities

why did I even reply to your bait post...

>>10207038
>he thinks I didn’t seriously consider a PhD at one point until I saw through academia’s bullshit
>people like you
>being this arrogant
Whew lad, you are in for a rude awakening

>>10207045
>>>/x/

>>10207045
>t. collage droppout

>>10207024
Spread out over a lifetime, PhD's do make quite a bit more money compared to masters. Plus, you will earn a title and contribute to the overall knowledge of humanity.

You cannot take all the material stuff like money and a nice house with you in your grave, but you can contribute to a system where people hundreds of years from now still use things that are based on your work.

>>10207040
Pretty much. People are duped into that bullshit because of the supposed prestige and then they realize later it was a mistake

>>10207058
PhDs make more money on average, but this doesn’t take into account the difference in pay between say, a BSE in engineering and a BA in buttfuckery studies.

>contribute to the overall knowledge of humanity
You can do this without a PhD and most academic research has no practical application.

>>10207058
PhDs make more than master degree holders?
That must be a lie

>>10207058
>contribute to the overall knowledge of humanity.
more like incremental advancements of an obscure topic only a few people care about

Do this, jump a few hoops (quals, defense, etc) that frankly do not weed out inferior students, and bam, you're a Dr.

>>10206966
>trying hard to justify your lack of PhD

>>10207083
>more like incremental advancements of an obscure topic only a few people care about
At least someone else realizes this. Back when I was younger I was all gung ho about research and “contributing to humanity” and shit like that. I now realize that the vast majority of academic research, even in science and math, is oddly specific and obscure and ultimately means nothing. I guess these people will grow up someday.

>>10207091
so science is not meaningful to you?

>>10207098
>he somehow came to this conclusion from my post

>>10206966
Does it make you happy?

>>10207106
so you will continue shitposting?

>>10207024
Yes, but the salary comes with a lot of freedom to do whatever you want. Working at google or any other place, a PhD researcher makes the unironic 150k-300k starting, but academia and national labs let you do whatever as long as they pay you 90k-110k starting (with growth). You get a good salary being able to do whatever the fuck you want. You’re paid to study. So what if you have to teach some undergrads here and there? Most professors on tenure track I know teach a max of 2 classes a semester, have 2-3 hours of office hours, and then do whatever they want for the rest of the time. You might encounter undergrads who like the class.

>>10207024
>If teaching elementary material to a bunch of unmotivated undergrads is what you love then damn, I feel sorry for you

exactly what I experienced:
> get email from university
> offering tutor job
> wtf
> never went to the lecture, exercises, seminar; only passed the exam (2.3)
> accepted cuz money
> first class
> be super excited
> standing in front of people and explaining shit
> over time you get comfortable with it
> it's fun preparing nice, easy to understand material
> (in contrast to the shit you get from university)
> about have the classes are done
> already became comfortable with job
> notice general disinterest from students
> not sure whether subject is too hard or they don't have balls to ask questions
> confused
> put so much effort into presentation + preparation
> disappoint
> encourage students to ask questions
> doesn't help
> FUUUUUUUUCK
> get on with the other half of the classes
> disappointed with university
> very disappoint

most people at university are idiots

subject was em wave and em field theory btw

>>10207111
He's not bruh, he's having fun.

>>10207045
Then you’re more than likely here saying this because you want aggressive confirmation bias of your decision not to do academia. It’s totally fine that you don’t want to do it, but nobody here is gonna reassure you of your convictions. You gotta get that from within yourself.

>>10206966
It depends on your priorities - it qualifies you for a different type of job and (depending on how good you are at research), much greater upward mobility in the workforce.

The whole point of a PhD is to trade additional time for very, very specialized knowledge into a certain field. That's what you need if you want to contribute to expanding the periphery of scientific knowledge in a role that allows you choice over what you actually do.

But yeah, if your goal is just to make money, then it's a waste. Hell, if that's your only goal, going to science/engineering was a waste to begin with!

>>10207116
If your students aren't asking questions and ignoring you, it's because you're boring and not a great teacher.

Think back to when you were an undergrad - did you really pay all that much attention to the 65 year old dude from Shanghai mumbling through a shitty lecture? Would him encouraging students to 'ask questions' really change anything?

>>10206966
>Getting a PhD is a waste of time and money. Prove me wrong. Pro tip: you can’t.
>Getting a PhD is a waste of money
I can, easily. It's free, at least in my country.

>>10207284
>he doesn’t realize the opportunity cost is still there

>>10207301
>being this far gone vis a vis the rat race

>>10206966
What do you mean by a ‘waste of time’?

>>10207170
This is complete bullshit. School is fucking boring no matter who the lecturer is.

>>10207016
>good salary
lol

>>10207301
>he is in a field where the industry pays well

>>10207016
>good salary
I'm getting 1800€, my friend who just did masters of engineering after undergrad is getting 7000€

but hey, I love what I do

>>10207170
> If your students aren't asking questions and ignoring you, it's because you're boring and not a great teacher.
often, but not always. I've had amazing teachers I never had to ask questions of because their objectives were plain and they showed you how to reach them clearly.

As for
>>10207116
I'm curious, what makes you think the you're explaining well? Just because you're comfortable and presenting factual information doesn't mean your engaging- most scientists despite being undeniable experts in their own research are still boring af to listen to about their own work, and that holds in the classroom as well

>>10207114
Imagine being this retarded.

>>10206966
>get PhD
>do research
>discover things of importance

PhD and people of high education are the ones who make all the discoveries which drive progress, anything below a PhD or MA is just MASSIVE COPE, in fact people who do not possess an advanced degree are usually not scientifically literate and are a danger to human survival.

everyone without an advanced degree is basically retarded, don't listen to the psychologists that define retardation as an IQ below 77. retardation is actually just an IQ below 124 which is what is required for a simple doctoral degree or masters.

the only hope for humans is that embryo selection for intelligence will become a hip trend, before we progress into an idiocracy, where people capable of science will become a persecuted minority.

prove me wrong.pro tip you can't.

i win

>>10207370
I honestly can’t tell if this is a shitpost or if you are being serious

>>10207376
it was a shit post, i was just trying to make a funny post emphasizing the importance of PhD holders

>>10207380
Ah ok. Job well done then. Some of the assholes on here really do have that attitude though

>>10206966
I went to grad school for free, plus got a salary, a fellowship, and loans, and it definitely was not a waste of time, pic related

^proof grad school is worthless^

ok i will stop shitposting, it depends on what you wan't to do,I think life isn't all about money, you can get a PhD in engineering and realize it was a waste of time because you do the same job you can do with an MA.but also with a Phd you can be a professor, or do research so it all depends on how you want to live your life, personally i think being a professor isn't that bad, my mom is a professor, my dad is an MA he makes more money. but also some people just like academia they like learning new things all the time.For people who love to learn a PhD is worth it

>>10207385
the amount of cope in this post.

>PhD holders are assholes and im so glad I didnt go into academia because all the hard courses would btfo me until I kill myself.

>>10207494
Lol you are exactly the person he described. He wasn’t saying all PhD holders are assholes, just the ones who base their self worth on how intelligent they think they are, much like you Mr. Fancypants. I’ll take my BSE in EE and make a shitload of money while you slave away for pennies in some meaningless post doc. Engineering master race fucker

>>10207334
Yeah, academian pay in germany is shit...

>>10207516
>greed
>vanity
>feeling trapped into that kind of dialectic

Can we all agree that PhD makes sense when you wanna do science, but in business, it is more often then not a waste of time?

>>10207335
I don't really know. A lot of people have told me I can, so I guess I do.

As for my job I tried to keep it simple. I knew the exam was one of the 'harder' ones, so I tried to give the students time to try the exercises for themselves, before I presented the solution. I didn't use slides at all, but merely wrote on the blackboard. I find it is easier to follow, when you 'develop' something on the board, instead of a plain presentation, which is rather overwhelming when learning something new. Also I created handouts and had a little presentation at the beginning introducing new subject material. That's about it. And when students gave feedback, it was positive for the better part.

I was just unsatisfied with the passive atmosphere during seminar. I mean, I put a lot of effort into it, for which i somehow expected some kind of gratitude from the students, some kind of joyful classroom interaction. It even was present at moments; however in retrospect I see that such expectations were unrealistic indeed.

>>10206966
A pretty huge dick is the only way to satisfy a woman.

>>10207516
and when you die, that money will mean nothing. When humans decide to abandon the concept of money, that money will mean nothing. Materialistic things define you my friend. I though I could smell cope in your post but it makes sense that you are an EE copout. Cases like yours are truly unfortunate because you are smart enough to realize you are dumb, but to dumb to do anything about it. I suppose cope is a logical way to deal with it.

>>10207538
People won't shut up about being able to earn more as PhDs

>>10207586
>he thinks his post doc. will save him during the apocalypse instead of gold
I think I'd know what to risk my chances on.
Materialistic things can be passed on to the next generation. Money is more important than being the most educated in a specific (sometimes very specific) field.

>live at home to save money
>get to eat my moms home cooked meals and she does my laundry
>get a decent amount of money
>basically all of my work is done on a computer so I can just work from home in pyjamas most days
>im probably too autistic for a real job anyways
it's pretty comfy

>>10207586
Lol nah chief. I’m actually not materialistic at all. I was only making a point that I can live a comfy life without being a try hard. You will never contribute anything significant to math or science. The sooner you realize this the better

>>10207650
Not even gold will save you. You are such a brainlet. I am not putting emphasis on the degree, but if you want to put interest into a material thing, then the value of knowledge far outweighs any material property. Keep coping with the fact you wish you were a math chad.

>>10207778
who said significance was the goal here. I may come off as an asshole but I genuinely do not care about the significance of my work. If I cared about what people thought of me and my work to the extent that you do, I would have probably become an electrical engineer installing cable as well.

>>10207040
>he thinks microchips and advanced polymers grow on trees

>>10207798
>I care about the significance of my work
>electrical engineers install cable

>>10207318
incorrect

>>10207978
False. I would rather be jerking off, getting drunk, and watching netflix

>>10207975
Maybe you should take reading classes. I clearly said I do not care if somebody appreciates my work or not. I study maths for my own pleasure. You on the other hand have to look up a table for Fourier transforms.

>>10207999
well sayed

>>10208113
>I study math for pleasure
>I am investing a significant portion of my time and potentially money for a degree that doesn’t have a good payoff
So what is it anon? Also, I was saying that you assume I care about the significance of my work even though I don’t. Why did you assume that anon? You big poopy brain.

>>10208129
>implying I'm getting the degree because of the payoff

You are one dense motherfucker. Have fun with that midlife crisis at 40 when you finally realize that you truly are to stupid for math and regret not being able to speak in completely objective truths.

i guess the thing is if you do a PhD you really should love nothing but the subject you're doing a PhD in, which is not the case for most PhD candidates these days. Like, do you LOVE your subject? Do you want nothing more than to talk and argue for hours about the problems in your subject and yell at people and call them morons and be confident in your own opinions? If so, get a PhD. If not, maybe reconsider.

If you have a couple of ideas about the subject matter you're interested in, and you're reasonably passionate about defending them, do a master's, publish a few papers. You'll know if you want to do a PhD. If not, fine: a master's in a STEM field as far as education goes should equip you to get a job in industry. If it doesn't, go join a trade or get into sales and join the rat race. Life goes on.

Basically, while it's an utterly banal platitude, pursue things you're passionate about. Don't get a PhD for "respect" or because you're worried you won't get a job without one (and certainly don't stop yourself from getting one because you're worried you'll be overqualified: remember, you can always just omit it from your resume). Life is tough, life is work. If you're a PhD type of person, life can be quite enjoyable, but it might also be lonely. You gotta think about it.

>>10206966

nah u right

>>10208181
>he thinks I am not studying analysis by myself and that I won’t study other pure math subjects
Apparently in order to study pure math I need to major in it. Thanks for the tip anon

>>10208195
Unless there is opportunity in it, don’t pursue your passion as a profession. You can always study it as a hobby

>>10208206
>implying you will ever get the same type of education alone as you do in a classroom where there is discourse.

Unless of course you are a genius. Which I doubt because you majored in EE.

>>10208242
Sure, I can see how a retard like you would need a mentor to slowly walk you through everything but I have had no trouble so far. The only time that argument makes sense is if you are talking about a very specific and obscure area of study for say a doctoral dissertation. Then having an advisor is almost necessary. But for some analysis, abstract algebra and topology? No.

>>10208254
Your understanding of the material improves when you/other people make mistakes and reason through them to solidify your understanding. No two minds are alike.

>>10208259
>I’m trying to justify the ridiculous amounts of my time and maybe money by claiming university is necessary to study some fairly simple concepts

>>10208264
then do some original research and solve an open problem. You may be suffering from the dunning kruger effect

>>10207547
>I tried to give the students time to try the exercises for themselves, before I presented the solution
Imo, this is where you fucked up. What I do is just pick the most clueless student and have him go up to the board to try and solve an exercise until I get the ??? look. Then I tell him to ask the group to see if they have any ideas – most of the time, they do. I don't help them with anything until they start to have a conversation about the problem at hand, (even if their ideas are completely wrong). It's a long and tiresome process but it's the only way to make sure they actually try to do something. Besides, this also encourages them to do the exercises beforehand in order to avoid standing in front of the class like idiots for 5 minutes in the next tutorial session. You will lose some students with severe social anxiety, though.