/sci/ - Science & Math

>>>/x/

>>10196245
>automatically ridiculing without thinking

you're not a rationalist, mate. You're NPC.

>>10196232
Man kind never seizes to underestimate her own past ability. The hubris is immense.

I have no doubts that people have figured out physical properties which enabled them to do Stonehenge and similar feats with very simplistic tools, which we no longer know of today.

>>10196232
They were just as smart as we are today, just without the technological advancements.

>>10196263
>her

>>10196232
geopolymers

>cut rocks to roughly the right shape
>slide in place with abrasive around it
>rock back and forth until it grinds down to match

How do we even know those are separate blocks? For all we know those grooves could be just aesthetics.

Unfortunately the knowledge was lost during the great flood.

>>10196232
>>10196263
>>10196431
Fuck off to >>>/x/ you faggot.

>>10196232
>we used to be retarded but now we're super smart

>duuuuude these structure are amazing, must have taken effort
>its not like ancient humans were capable of cutting blocks and putting forth tremendous effort
So what do you suggest?
>>10196255
>not a rationalist
Thank god

>>10196431
There was never a global flood

>>10196519
i dont think you realize how fucking hard it is to do something like in a pic, lad

>>10196607
I do, it is extremely hard.
>quarrying all that stone
>moving it to the jobsite with rollers and pure muscle
>spend weeks identifying which stones will fit together best
>saw them down to get the shape just right with copper saws
What is your point?

>>10196613
yeah i was right. You dont realize.

>>10196617
What don't I realize?

>>10196263
>Man kind
>her
stick with one in the same sentence anon.

>>10196281
arguably smarter because of diet and in-tact natural selection.

>>10196433
fuck off to anywhere else faggot

>>10196232
>Made by primitive people
What is the alternative hypothesis and what evidence supports it?

>>10196617
>no argument

>>10196255
This. I think he needs to leave.

>>10196245
>>>/out/

>>10196656
alternative is, they were far more advanced than we think. Evidence? For fucks sake. Shit like that would be hard to make today.

Shit like that was made over hundreds of years. We built New York in the time it took them to make a wall.

>>10196613
they had fuck all else to do besides move rocks and fuck

>>10196726
It would be hard to do in a short time today. What if we had 300 years? Do you think we could get it down by 2319?

>>10196232
the difference between your pic and this picture is that in mine people were more concerned with cost than aesthetics

>>10196726
So no evidence other than your own personal incredulity then?

>>10196735
Hence why they built those magnificent structures

>>10196742
exactly

>>10196726
But those structures are very much possible with the tools we already know they had?
>Evidence? It looks really hard lol

>>10196745
So we are in agreement

>>10196748
yeah i wasnt trying to disagree

>>10196750
So why did you say "yeah i was right. You dont realize"?
If that wasnt you, then stop talking to me

>>10196769
i dont think you understand, >>10196750
>>10196745
>>10196735
were the only times i talked to you

>>10196769
How about go fuck yourself.

Those primitive people were still just as smart as we are.

I'll just say that it was aliens. No need to thank me.

>>10196845
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>10196845
thank u

>>10196746
of course it is not

>>10196888
Waste of trips. You need
>levers
>rollers
>plumb lines
>levels
>squares
>copper tools
To make those structures. Guess what they had?

>>10196936
Help from aliens?

>>10196948
Nope

>>10196948
even help from aliens makes more sense juxtaposed with bullshit explanations about hurr simple tools.

>give retarded answers
>whine about people turning to daniken and that greek dude from tv

>>10196958
>we have evidence that ancients possessed tools and were hard workers
>we have no evidence that aliens visited them
No

>>10196964
aliens theory, while bullshit, is atleast something

simple tools is nothing. Straight up retarded.

>>10196980
Well, primitive tools and elbow grease is the correct and true answer, so it has that going for it.

>>10196990
thats dogmatic and anti-science

>Hunted by primitive people
COME ON NOW

>>10196995
More so than m-muh aliens?

>>10197007
aliens are at least theoretically possible in this case so yes

>>10197013
You know, you're right. I'd say God personally coming down to Earth and building this stuff for them is maybe slightly more likely, but still you have a very fair and scientific point.

>>10197020
all i'm saying is

theory with 0.000000000000000000000001% of chance is better than theory with 0% of chance.

>>10197003
Mammoths weren't bigger or stronger than today's elefants

>>10197022
No, you're saying that you're a fucking retard who understands nothing about science.

Never fucking reply to me again.

>>10197020
also, ironic tone is not an argument, despite the popular opinion

>>10196232
Anyone who actually approaches this with an educated and open mind, with a view to discovering how it is possible to create these structures using pre-industrial era technology, discovers there has been a remarkable lack of scientific investigation into this topic other than ruling out some possibilities.

Which is remarkable given, that these structures, and other ones of similarly intriguing prowess, are found around the world.

It appears highly evident that the stones were not cut and placed by any conventional means, primitive or modern, known today. Not by stone or metal tools. Certainly not by some bullshit lasers, an idea concocted by /x/ tier retards.

I find the lack of rational, science based, scrutiny almost intriguing as the the structures themselves.

Surely you would think engineers and practically minded people around the world would be keen to demonstrate how it is possible to create these structures without the use of modern equipment and tools. Yet as far as I can tell no one has made any successful attempt to do so.

What is the problem here? Is it simply a matter of this being one of those phenomena which falls into the the too hard basket? Perhaps it is just the topic attracts too many /x/tier idiots, which in turn puts of reasonably minded people who shun the possibility of being associated with those fools. Perhaps people just subscribe to the fallacious notion that given enough time, man power, and primitive tools, structures like this can be constructed and therefore simply write them off as being inconsequential and unworthy of serious attention.

>>10196980
Explain? The alien theory has nothing going for it. Simple tools is both
>realistic
>supported by evidence
>makes fewer assumptions

So, what alternative do you propose?

You say down the thread that ancients using tools is not theoretically possible, implying theoretical impossibility. Would you like to explain?

>>10197023
They were absolutely bigger, brainlet

>>10197026
melted.

you're acting like religious people. You've been told about primitive tools, but you see something that was clearly not made with primitive tools. So what are you doing? You stick with that explanation despite it's making zero sense, instead of thinking

>maybe they were more advanced?

you're a dogmatic nutjob on pair with teleevangelists

>>10197044
>but you see something that was clearly not made with primitive tools.
how do you know?

>>10197036
>Surely you would think engineers and practically minded people around the world would be keen [to go out of there way, spend thousands of dollars toiling away like a caveman to prove something only /x/philes don't accept]
Nope

>>10197044
My theory about God doing it is literally as scientifically valid as claiming that aliens did it, go read a fucking book you nutjob.

>>10197044
If they couldn't be made with "primitive" tools, where are the advanced tool artifacts?

>>10197051

You underestimate the willingness of humans to prove a point.

>>10197044
Nothing in the OP was not made with saws and picks.

>>10197054
i literally said aliens theory is bullshit, mate. Go practice some reading comprehension.

>>10197061
what's your basis for saying that?

>>10197059
You made the mistake of thinking there is anything that needs proving. Contrarians to the mainstream theory need to present evidence, not the other way around. You overestimate the controversy of these ideas.

>>10197066
The basis that ancient americans only had access to picks and saws. And also the fact there is no machining or welding or forging or fastening or stamping or milling on the stones

>>10197055
not an argument.

let's say you see a hole in the granite and the straw laying beside it. Would you say that hole was made by the straw?

this is what happens here more or less

>>10197072
oh i misread actually, i missed the "not" in your post

>>10197073
>pointing out my lack of evidence
>"Not an argument"
You're right. He doesn't need an argument to shut down someone who presents nothing.

>>10197073
No, in that situation I'd say the hole was made by unknown means. However if bronze and stone tools were found nearby, and no advanced tools, what would you say is the likeliest explanation?

>>10197079
That which is presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

>>10197080
i would say it was done by unknown means because bronze and stone tools are straws.

>>10197087
We know stone can be shaped by harder stone and metals, and we've known that for thousands of years. We have no evidence that straw can do that.

>>10197084
So where is your evidence that there were not built by the people living there? ;^)

>>10197094
Don't be silly he thinks they were built by the people living but that they used magical biodegradable lasers to build them.

>>10197087
Bronze and stone tools "are not straws"

>>10197093
it's ironic that you used a strawman

i'm not talking about just shaping stone. I'm talking about constructions like ops pic

let's actually speculate on how the stones could have been shaped

here's my proposal: shape two stones until they have an approximate fit with hand tools. mix up a thick paste of an abrasive material hard enough to cut the rock you're shaping and spread it between the two stones. move the stones back and forth across each other perpendicular to the plane of the wall you want to build. periodically pull the stones apart to remove grit and refresh the abrasive paste. as the stones are slowly shaped to fit each other, you can use less and less paste, and eventually you'll reach a point where the stones are a near perfect match.

i don't think you'd need a lot of lateral grinding space, maybe a couple centimeters, and i think you could take most of the weight with rope supports so most of your effort would be toward grinding, not lifting.

>>10196232
Niggees

>>10197100
All those walls require is the ability to move and then shape stone. What else are you imagining needs to be done?

>>10196232
>impossible to move rocks...
That's just concrete/cement. Nothing special.
Greeks, Romans, Chinks, Arabs, Pajeets, etc... built with concrete too.
In modern times any dumb bricklayer can make concrete.

Now back to >>>/x/ you schizo faggot

>>10197102
nah dude it was the aliens ayy lmao stop being so closed minded

>>10197098
>strawman
>ironic tone
>argumentum ad /x/um

i saw people being called "reddit" because they used such retarded thinking

>>10197100
Everything in OP can be constructed using bronze tools. We found bronze tools in mesoamerica. Combining these two facts, and if you don't have an agenda, you would say they used bronze tools to make them. Your turn.

>>10197106
literally no one said that

>>10197114
You're right, 90 posts in and still nobody has presented an alternative to the mainstream theory.

>>10197108
>Everything in OP can be constructed using bronze tools

except it can't

>>10197119
What did they use then?

>>10197118
and that proves that mainstream theory is right, despite the fact it can't be right

this is dogmatism

>>10197119
Stone CAN be sawed with copper (even softer than bronze)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeS5lrmyD74
What else in OP do you think can't be done?

>>10197123
You've provided no reason why it can't be right other than the fact you don't believe it

>>10197123
Theories aren't proven, retard. They are supported by evidence. I've already given so much evidence in support of the mainstream, and not a person can come up with an alternative.
>using words that I don't know the meaning of

>>10197121
certainly not straws

that's all im saying ffs. Is it that hard to admit they were maybe more advanced than we think they were? I'm not talking about /x/ tier shit here.

>>10197136
>Is it that hard to accept a theory that makes completely unnecessary assumptions for no reason?
yes

>>10197136
How much more advanced? What technology do you imagine they had?

>>10196232
>>10196255
>>10196245
>>10196263
>>10196281
>>10196420
>>10196422
>>10196656
>>10196726
>>10196726
>>10196741
>>10196742
>>10196808
>>10196845
>>10196948
>>10196958
>>10196958
>>10196958
>>10196964
>>10197036
>>10197044
>>10197055
>>10197054
>>10197073
>>10197102
Here's a 12+ paragraph breakdown with links to scientific papers detailing the exact construction technique used for this style of Masonry in the Andes: https://www.reddit.com/r/badhistory/comments/3hx31g/all_in_all_its_just_another_12_sided_block_in_the/?st=jp94rzhx&sh=e2ab8652

>>10196426 is actually somewhat close: they ARE seperate pieces, but, often the super tight fitting stone is basically just a decorative outer layer to the more haphazard structural interior, so it's not one solid, thick wall of stones that tight fitting, though I think in Sacsayhuaman's case many entire walls are indeed solid stone interlocking pieces

>>10196726
>they were far more advanced than we think.
This is actually true, though that's because most people underestimate the complexity of Andean and Mesoamerican civilizations in general, and think of them are barely civilized stone age cultures rather then complex, urban political states, comparable to cultures from classical antiquity in some ways or even contemporary eurpope; not because they were Atleanteans or Aliens or whatever /x/ tier shit

>>10197136
Nobody is suggesting they used straw to cut stone. They used copper or bronze. Your turn.

>>10197143
>unironically linking to reddit
post discarded

>>10197136
well it depends what you mean by "than we think they were". lots of people seem to have this idea that their technology was barely better than just banging rocks together and huddling in caves. their technology was definitely better than that.

>>10197148
>i cannot argue with reason
lmao

>>10197144
you have problems with understanding simple metaphors? It's no surprise you are an idiot.

>>10197151
>their technology was definitely better than that
You're correct. Their technology included metal picks and saws, ropes and levers. These are sufficient to build OP.

>>10197107
Ignore and report the /x/spamming thread sliders, they do the same thing every time anyone shares a non-popsci opinion on here, really boring people not worth their weight in (you)s.
On a related note, the great pyramids were just tombs made by Egyptian slaves. The lack of any hieroglyphics, the seemingly labyrinthine chambers, the precise geometrical relationships, all a ruse by a civilization who's highest level tech was the pulley, made to help their pharaohs in the spirit world or something. Makes sense. Anyone that suggests the pyramids were radiant energy concentrators... Or had something to do with triggering the great flood... Forget them, they probably skipped history class and let their insane minds run wild.

>>10197179
>egypt's highest level tech was the pulley
The pyramids are much greater tech, as was their mathematics.

>>10197148
The user who made that post is an actual practicing archaeologist.

>>10197179
What makes a photo "Kirlian?"

>>10196232
SUPERIOR
PERUVIAN
ENGINEERING
>Rope bridges
>Turning the mountainsides into farmlands
>Making microclimate farms in the high altitudes
>Massive drawings in the desert for weather forecasting
>Brain operations, 60% survival rate
>Wheel, what's that
Heck, there's even a place with a viewpoint to a nearby anden (Mountainside farm) with a carved stone. You can pour water on it, and it flows the exact same way it'd do in the anden itself.

>>10197226
Amerindians are superior to europeans. That's already demonstrated by consensus.

Reminder that we simply nuked ourselves back to the stone age. Back then we were almost a space faring race

>>10197295
Proof?

>>10196232
This is becaues european invaders spread the myth that europeans were inherently superior to american indians.

The truth is they were only superior in military power in almost every aspect the natives of americans were better. Better understanding of astronomy, better building techniques, better knifes, much MUCH larger cities a culture much more complex and intricate than anything known. The list goes on and on

the problem is that retarded spaniards burned a lot of ruins and people. They were probably a lot more impressive than we know now

>>10197143
>, comparable to cultures from classical antiquity in some ways or even contemporary eurpope
"even" modern europe.

Mate, when the spanish arrived in america the natives of america were orders of magnitude more advanced in almost everything except military technique

>>10197226
>>10197251
daily reminder that european/christian colonialism has always been a major setback for the whole of humanity

>>10196232
>>Made by primitive people

With a LOT of time on their hands. Building a "good" city was very important to the people, so they made sure to do a good job.

>>10196232
>Bunch of rocks stacked on top of each other
>Versus hundreds of meters tall towers of glass and steel
>THEREZ NO WAY HUMANS COULD STACK ROCKS ON TOP OF EACH OTHER EVEN WITH TENS OF THOUSANDS OF SLAVES, PACK ANIMALS, AND ENGINEERS HUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRP

>>10198277
European masons had the same time on their hands and did not even aproximate the same result, actually all they did were trial and error, what we know from ancient peruvians aztecs and mayas is that they were far superior in engineering they could do some serious math about it. and thats what we know from just the 2 or 3 buildings that barely survived the spanish retardness of destroying history.

>>10198283
according to /x/ schitzos, making piles of rocks is literally the most impressive achievement in all of human history and is completely impossible unless the people making piles of rocks secretly had teleporters, space ships, and time machines

>>10198283
>tens of thousands of slaves is all you need to build these megaliths

It only takes one educated and determined individual.
>pic related

There's a reason Egyptian's Pharaohs murdered the pyramid builders to keep their secrets. The secret to their lost technology is one of those things that's so simple once you see it you go "duh, why didn't I think of that." Seriously, it's extremely simple.
It's all about sound waves and resonance. Specifically sonic drilling and sonic levitation using instruments.

>>10198332
>It's all about sound waves and resonance. Specifically sonic drilling and sonic levitation using instruments.

>>10198348
if you were handed a 100 page report detailing techniques and methods used with peer reviewed examples, would you even bother to read it?

It's not worth the effort to spoon feed you, just google it if you actually are interested.

>>10198358
>It's not worth the effort to spoon feed you, just google it if you actually are interested.
So that's a "no".

>>10198348
>>10198358
also it's worth noting FreeMasons know the secret.
It's been their sacred duty to safeguard this knowledge but nobody cares anymore.
Nobody upholds the old oaths and you can find this shit on google or just figure it out if you're clever.

>>10198358
Just post a youtube video of levitating something with sound waves and I'll be good.

>>10198332
>X-files theme intensifies

>>10198383
Not the person you're arguing with, but:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=669AcEBpdsY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVDWrWpaBho
Obviously levers and ramps are a bit simpler, though.

>>10198383
No video of big stones, but here's one of the basic principal. There's eye witness account of Tibetan monks moving giant stones using something like in the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpNbyfxxkWE

>>10198319
>strawman
>ironic tone
>argumentum ad /x/um

the same set.

>>10196958
>Alien civilisation reaches interstellar-travel tier level of tech.
>Visits Earth.
>Hurrr let’s pile up some rocks.

>>10198472
another one with reading comprehension problems

>>10198472
>>10198442

>>10198484

>>10198306
>the spanish retardness of destroying history.

STOP THERE!

The Spanish crushed a death cult that was literally sacrificing thousands of people a year to horrific torture. Every fucking day the natives should thank god that the Spanish saved their worthless sorry asses from their own superstitious death cult ways!

>>10196232
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_fallacy
Fuck off.

It's actually a big rock that had grooves cut into it to make it look like it is made of bricks.

>>10198582
Shitposting aside there's actually a lot of excavations going on right now around the primary site skulls from sacrifices were stored in the Aztec captial.

A lot of clickbait sites are reporting on it as :NEW FINDINGS CONFIRM SPANISH REPORTS and shit like that but in reality it's done the opposite: 75% of skulls are from males between the ages of 20 and 35, consistent with the already known info that most sacrifices were enemy soldiers, not innocent civillians, and the amount of skulls found indicate that "thousands" were only sacrirficed over long periods of time, such as decades: the actual annual sacririfce rate was tens to low hundreds a year, and keep in mind the Mexica of the captial were by far the most sacrifice-happy group in the region's history so other cities did it even less.

And then on top of that you didn't see warfare or killings over what religion you worshipped like in Europe, the middle east, etc, so there really wasn';t any more religiously motitivated deaths in Mesoamerica then in those places, it just happened in a different way

>>10198358
peer reviewed papers about the construction technique were litterally already posted in this thread, see
>>10197143

>>10197852
m8 i'm a Mesoameriboo but no. The only ways they were arguably superior to contemporary europe was in hydraluics and water management, botony and horitculture, and inarguably sanitation, public health, and medicine (in fact a new study was just published about how over 85% of the herbology and medical practices we have from Aztec herbal encylopedias was medically effective). They were arguably comparable but not superior in city sizes, and then in every other way they were more on par with Bronze Age, Iron Age, or classical cultures.

So not nearly as "behind" as most people think, but nobody but chicanos and sjw's think that they were ahead of europe in most ways.

>>10196410
>>10196649
You call the species of man kind "her".

It's the same principle as boats.

>>10198582

The stones and the people should be switched to make this historical image closer resemble reality, considering how much damage colonialism, US slavery of Africans, and various wars based uppon superstitions (Vietnam, Iraq) has done.

>>10196845
This. The simplest answer is usually the correct one

>>10196980
Of course, just because people were able to build pic related in the 1400's with nothing but simple tools, mathematics and hard work doesn't mean that an older society could have built something far simpler using the simple tools, mathematics and hard work. How silly of me to assume otherwise!

>>10198849
>far simpler

either you are trolling or you are literally brain damaged

>>10198849
To be fair, Sacsayhuaman isn't "far simplier", what you see in the OP image is just the very bottom of a single wall of what was a large fort complex.

>>10198332
Leedskalnin used pulleys, not magic sonic wands. Theres photos of him moving the stones into place.

>>10198708
It's stylistically very strange to call "mankind" "her" for obvious reasons; you draw way too much attention to disparate words, and it detracts from whatever point you're trying to make. If you really want to use her, then use humanity or something.

>>10196738

Why do you assume that people who allegedly lived in a primitive society would start a 10-generations-long project?

How many primitive societies living today are working on some several-hundreds-years plan?

>A-a-ancient people were dumber than me I can't be a huge failure relative to the rest of human history!!!

Fag

>>10199258
Why do you assume they wouldnt?

>>10198416
>shout REALLY loudly at ground
>mfw now flying

>>10198582
>West helping China

This was completed in 1092.

Stop acting like we need aliens to move stone.

>>10199293

Because we never observed one doing that?

Long projects have only been done by advanced civilizations (the wall of china, pyramids, ...)

Nobody ever discovered some tribe working on some huge life-span encompassing shit.

>>10196232
My guess is that they just had loads of time.
We're used to see things done relatively fast so it doesn't click with us that they just had time and dedication instead of our modern tools I guess.

>>10199335
>My guess is that they just had loads of time.

Great explanation.

Because when you have loads of time you start building structures out of blocks that weigh several tons (instead of using small bricks which are much easier to handle).

>>10199322

so what did they use to build that?

a) reasonable sized bricks
b) huge ass blocks that weigh several hundred tons

>>10199448
>bricks
Nope. They used blocks that weight several tons. Not only do they weight several tons, but they are shaped to exact right angles which takes considerable more effort than the blocks in OP.

>>10198416
Eye witness accounts are the list reliable thing ever. Literally just making up some random stuff on the spot is more reliable than "eye witness accounts".

>>10199324
All you're doing is underestimating the Killke culture. This isn't just some ass backwards jungle tribe of savages. They were structured and advanced, and had the same qualities needed to set up a long term project as China or Egypt did. Strange how you're NOT willing to accept that their culture is capable of organization and leadership, which we have supplementary proof of, but you ARE willing to accept they had some non-specific secret advanced technology that there is no record or evidence of.

>>10199530
Killke culture did not build the wall you retard.

>Sections were first built by the Killke culture about 1100; they had occupied the area since 900. The complex was expanded and added to by the Inca from the 13th century; they built dry stone walls constructed of huge stones.

>>10199503

Sure, I will take the word of some unknown as truth.

Is this a /sci/ thread

>>10199258
>>10199324
Those societies that built the great wall of china and the pyramids. They built the cities we have today and much faster. Look up the Burj Khalifa. Don't forget they had the labor force back then. The reason noone builds pyramids because imagine the cost of the labor alone, for something noone could make use of.

>>10197179
Moving rocks so they form basic geometric shapes does not require advanced technology

>>10198582
>celts, germanics, early romans and all other europeans practiced human sacrifice
>"replace them with subhumans! that will save them from their own superstitious death cult ways!"

>>10198703
>most sacrifices were enemy soldiers, not innocent civillians
Killing prisoners of war is better than killing civilians?

>>10201709
America tortures prisoners of war all the time

>>10198582
>>10201709
>>10201691
>>10201793

Romans sacrificed christians, prisoners & criminals at Coliseum

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQQZR-Skftk

gladiators battling to the death

Romans throwing christians to be eaten by lions

it's human sacrifice

Oh look, not a single credible answer to OPs inquiry.

>>10197119
Except it can and you're a titanic fucking retard.

>>10201840
Oh look an illiterate retard

>>10197143

>>10198582
>a death cult
The fact that you only learned about american pre-european history about mel gibson movies shows how much you know about the subject.

So first you should read at least like, 1 book on the subject you want to talk about, probably at least 4-5 If you want to speak about the subject with that level of certainty.

But it turns out youre not only ignorant but also stupid because with basic information avaivable to kidnergartneers even you can deduce that europeans at the same time were kililng much more people for silly thing like a christian anti science god (which shat on astronomy)
Why incans killed much less and were god tier astronomists

>>10198332
>There's a reason Egyptian's Pharaohs murdered the pyramid builders to keep their secrets.
Theres also a reason why theres a lot of myths around egyptians, because they sound cool and ignorant retards like you dont bother to fact check them

>>10201840
this

>>10203807
Refer to
>>10197143

Why is /sci/ so afraid to admit that modern findings are putting older ideas to question?

>>10196845
what fucking reason would advanved alien civilizations come to earth to build stone structures?

>>10198263
more like the barbarian destruction of the ancient world

>>10203829
What idea is under question?

>>10203829
Because most people have accepted that their scholarly career ends with their highest level of diploma.

>>10203844
If it can't be explained by the history books, it's aliens from outer space. Everyone knows lost civilizations are impossible because we were all stone-age cavemen back then.

>have magic / high technology
>make something that looks like shit

I don't buy it

>>10196232
I wouldn't call the Killke primitive.

>>10196410
In spanish it would be correct tho

>>10196232
Amerindians developed every technology more rapidly than Europeans.
>europeans
from aurignacian proto-gravettian to solutrean:10000 years (30000BC-20000BC)
from aurignacian-antelian to start of crop development: 9000 years(30000BC-21000BC)
from start of crop development to neolithic revolution: 10500 years (21000BC-10500BC)
from neolithic revolution to earliest use of copper: 5500 years (10500BC-5000BC)
from neolithic revolution to earliest use of tin bronze: 6700 years (10500BC-3800BC)

>Amerindians
from aurignacian proto-gravettian to clovis: 5500 years (16000BC-10500BC)
from aurignacian proto-gravettian to the start of crop development: 5000 years (16000BC-11000BC)
from start of crop development to neolithic revolution: 7000 years (11000BC-4000BC)
from neolithic revolution to copper: 3000 years (4000BC-1000BC)
from neolithic revolution to earliest use of tin bronze: 4700 years (4000BC-700 AD)


-"2003a. Tiwanaku Period (Middle Horizon) bronze metallurgy in the lake Titicaca basin: A preliminary assessment. En Tiwanaku and its hinterland, T 2. A. Kolata, (Ed.), pp. 404-434. Smithsonian Institution Press, Washington D. C."
-"1997. El bronce arsenical y el Horizonte Medio. En Arqueología, antropología e historia en los Andes: Homenaje a María Rostworowski, R. Varón y J. Flores E. (Eds.), pp. 153-186. Instituto de Estudios Peruanos, Lima."
-"https://www.researchgate.net/publication/317346941_Ancient_metalworking_in_South_America_A_3000-year-old_copper_mask_from_the_Argentinian_Andes";
-"Historia de América Andina: Las sociedades aborígenes"
-"https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF02859340";
-"http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0141923";
-"http://whc.unesco.org/en/tentativelists/1873/";
-"https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleoamericano";
-"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluefish_Caves";
Therefore Amerindians have more civilization potential than europeans.

How is this hard to get?

>>10204249
not sure I understand the first two, but the following three are interesting

>>10196232
>be ancient ayy lmao
>can fly at hyperluminar speeds/through dimensions, has unlocked and understood the inner workings of the universe
>go to some undrerdeveloped monkey planet to arrange fucking rocks
Whoa...

>be some atlantian second industrial revolution-tier civilization
>build some rough stone huts for monkey people
...whoa!

>>10196245
give me a week and i could build that mate

>>10196422
> rock back and forth until it grinds down to match

>>10204627
op didn't suggest aliens. In fact he even call that theory bullshit.

>>10196422
>rock back and forth until it grinds down to match

WAT

>>10204249
potential, as like contrasting against kinetic. they had the potential to score advancements, but took forever to get around to doing it. In all 5 examples, Europeans accomplished it MUCH earlier than the amerinds.
Their shorter development period could easily be caused by minor contact with travelers who passed on tech or development that originated with the europeans.

This is like saying the kid who can't learn to count to ten until he's in his teens has more potential than the kids who learned to do it before kindergarten.

Y'all are dumb. Euclids elements happened near 300 bc. Let me guess, God tier mathematics for the time but only one explanation: ALIENS. Get real. Stop jumping to conclusions based on speculative evidence. If we had epic proofs in 300bc, I'm pretty sure they could figure out how to make some sticks and stones come together to make a giant wall in 10000bc. Humans have always done incredible shit. You autists just can't fathom what the alpha men and women of prior generations were capable of because you continue suckling mommys and daddys teat while telling people on the internet to kys

Simply Pathetic.

>>10201709
>>10201793
>>10201805
The issue is that they weren't really prisoners of war in the sense you are thinking of it.

It's not that they sacrificed people who happened to be captured in battle, but rather that warfare in Mesoameriica placed an emphasis on capturing enemy soldiers to begin with. In other words, they were soldiers who were captured to kill later as sacrifices INSTEAD of being killed in battle as normal casualties. That's not to say that Mesoamerican armies didn't also kill each other in battle and that they only attempted to capture, but rather that capturing was viewed as impressive and was aimed for when possible when not super tactically risky, such as after enemy lines broke and their forces were in chaos.

Razing cities and attacking civilian populations was also less common, since the Aztec's primary goals in military expansion wasn't t rule over more people/territory, but rather to get more city-states as tributaries so they could extract more tribute, so killing of or capturing civilians or destroying infrastructure would make it harder for conquered provinces to gather and supply tribute.

Note i'm mainly taking about the Aztec here, obviously the specifics for these sorts of practices would vary based on culture or even per specific political state, of course, and these were generalities, not hard rules.

>>10196232
Based COME ON NOW poster.

>>10198582
Literally nothing wrong with deathcults sacrificing thousands to horrific torture. You're being a leftist moralfag right now.

>>10196263
>seizes

>>10198703
>>10207519
Do you have any book recommendations about pre-columbian civs?

>>10203961
That humanity at 10000 BC wasn't just hunter gatherers.

>>10196263
Man kind never seizes to underestimate her own past ability

>>10207653
What evidence do you have for that? Every structure ITT is newer than that.

>>10196232
>primitive people
Some time later ....

>>10207584
I post links to a mega I and another anon runs, as well as link to a plebbtt post by somebody elsse I coordinated with that talks about resources and learning about mesoamerican histtory here:

https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/5446429/#5453842

Note that I do think that the /r/Askhistorians pastebin is your best starting place, even before you check out any of the books

>>10198703
>75% of skulls are from males between the ages of 20 and 35, consistent with the already known info that most sacrifices were enemy soldiers, not innocent civillians

wrong, aztec sacrifice was ritualized and they would go and start skirmishes with neighboring villages and take and kill prisoners. they were savages for sure and part of why so many indigenous people originally sided with cortes

>>10208189
On the one hand we have a couple of stone age retards spend 1.000.000.000.000.000.000.000 man hours into creating one useless structure for one useless society which europeans conquered without a sweat because military technology is technology too. Also they were savage killed lots of people and were not on the way to an industrial society (backwards mythical thinking spanish impressed them fairly easy by telling them about an eclipse)

On the ohter we have an european scientific industrial society that makes huge structures periodically and so often and efficient that it makes literally millions of them and every so often in the most extreme conditions maybe one of them fails, this same soeciety has medicine eliminated diseases space travel internet modern alloys clothing, reward based capitalism and dramatically longer lifespans and human rights.

Gee sure, i wonder whos the primitive, the "good" primitives who once spend thousand of years cutting a rock tidy and nothing elseor the europeans who can do gigantic structures periodically, also if we could we could cut stones as precise as possible BUT also we are superior in every way

>>10209163
ahem.
Arabs have the biggest buildings in the world

>>10210479
fixed that for you:
"Arabs have used oil revenue to pay for western engineering to come there and design big buildings for them"

>>10198708
Actually no it's not because a boat is assumed to be genderless and a man is not

>>10208189
Note that it was not the design of the bridge that failed but that it was constructed wrong.

>>10196263
Vaginal hubris?