/sci/ - Science & Math

>>10186692
Degenerate.

>>10186706
>pic
Cringe

>>10186692
dumb, nicotine will give you ED

>>10186692
>Is it safe?
Somewhat.
The cardiovascular load of pure nicotine is stronger than that of smoked tobacco (MAOIs and NO increase from tobacco smoke attenuates nicotine's vasoconstrictory and hypertensive effect).
The PG/VG carrier in e-vaping devices can capture saliva and pathogens from the throat and mouth and cause it to migrate deeper into the lungs. This is a good reason NOT to use the giant faggot "box mods" like this >>10186771 mouth breather, and instead use high nicotine per hit to minimize the amount of other junk in the e-cig. Tobacco is still king.
>Should it be banned due to their marketing towards children?
This is a loaded question that implies they are marketing to children to begin with. No.
>Does nicotine increase focus?
Yes, see pic related.
>What's the /sci/ consensus on vaping?
It looks retarded but can be beneficial.

>>10186777
Any source on that claim?

>>10186790
>Tobacco is still king.

I thought smoking cigs causes cancer.

>>10186798
You thought wrong. Don't use commercial cigarettes with additives, filters and FSC though. Roll your own.

>>10186692
wtf i want to start vaping now just because of that aesthetic juul has
ive never smoked anything in my entire life

>>10186801
It doesn't matter what you do you fucking moron, you are inhaling combusted plant matter.

>>10187646
>SMOKE BAD!
Straw man that ignores what "combusted plant matter" is; your low IQ emotional reaction is on full display in your post. You only offer this up because it sounds icky and disgusting. The human lung, indeed, the lungs of all mammals evolved over hundreds of millions of years to filter out particulate matter and if you look at the constituents with the "combusted plant matter", you'll find that most are harmless, light-weight organic molecules which are readily excreted by the body, and among these there is a plenitude of beneficial substances (e.g. coenzyme q10, numerous polyphenols, increased GSH production) that more than compensate for whatever oxidative stress is inflicted by any irritants within the smoke.

>>10187671
>the lungs of all mammals evolved over hundreds of millions of years to filter out particulate matter
go breath in volcanic ash, lets see how good our lungs are at filtering that significant of an amount

>>10187671
Filtering out sparse background particles is not the fucking same as directly inhaling burning shit.

I absolutely cannot stand this faggotry. I don't give a shit if it's safe or not. If you do this you're a faggot full stop

>>10187695
>OOOOGA BOOOGA! BURNING SHIT
The post applies to your reply here too.
>>10187688
Thanks for further proving my point. Tobacco is miniscule in comparison and certainly does not inflict any perceptible unpleasantry in the lung. People can smoke, without much injury or detriment and if you analyze the constituent, the case could be made, with great benefit.

>>10186790
wew kinda wish I fell for the smoking meme

>>10187778
It's not too late

>>10187759
it’s literally tar. How can that not be bad for your lungs? And it’s a shame because smoking looks so cool.

>>10187817
sadly I'm not that interested in cigarettes or tobacco since I'm kinda too poor for higher quality stuff right now.
Maybe vaping can be just as good, az least for nicotine delivery? I was meaning to try vaping for other reasons for some time now, but never planned on including nicotine

>>10186692
>microthrombosis
>bronchiolitis obliterans

Quitting smoking was the best thing I ever did.
I can breathe properly now.
Nicotine is a poisonous drug.

>>10187869
Dose makes the poison and nice n=1. To offer my own, taking up smoking immensely improved my life.

>>10187671
Imagine posting this and not receiving a paycheck from Marlboro

>the chad Einstein
>smoke like a chimney, revolutionize physics
>The virgin /sci/ poster
>refuse nicotine for "health reasons". masturbate to anime

>>10186790
i'm convinced. what brands of cigs will give me higher IQ?

I picked up smoking because I was suicidal and tring to see if a new addiction could throw off my addiction to pornography and marijuana

It didn't, I just ended up chainsmoking for 2 years until I was constantly coughing up black, then I switched to a Juul. I like it, fuck people that hate vapes, they're even bigger faggots than the people buying the mods.

>>10188383
American Spirit Unfiltered, or better yet, Roll Your Own with a tube machine. If you must try a filter, Spirit Perique blend.

>>10186801
Lol it’s this guy again
It’s really 2funE that you think combusted plant matter of any kind somehow doesn’t contain carcinogens or deposit tar. It’s the biggest rationalization I think I’ve ever seen.

>>10187671
So we have come to admit that there is oxidative stress, there irritants, but delusionally believe that is offset by whatever else you inhale.
The fact that it’s burning is a fucking problem. You seem to not want to accept that
>>10188394
>coughing up black
Must be lie, because as we all know, smoking doesn’t deposit tar in the lungs. Did you roll your own? It makes a difference :^)

>>10186791
Google list of vasodilators, nicotine is on every list.

>>10188394
No, you're still the bigger fag for vaping. And also for thinking that getting addicted to smoking would improve your life you retard.

>>10189690
>vasodilators,
>nicotine
Pick one.

>>10186790
Who is shit like this marketed toward if not children/high schoolers?

>>10188509
>tube machine
>not rolling cigs by hand

>>10187836
>it's literally tar!
Translation: it's icky and I don't like it!
If you analyze what this tar is comprised of, you will see that it's light weight organic molecules, all but a handful totally harmless and rapidly excreted by the system. The rich polyphenols and Coenzyme Q10 are antioxidant constituents of this tar. It's readily eliminated from the system, and may even serve a protective role. Look at the radon dog study (pic); the smoking groups of dogs had LOWER instances of lung cancer! The rich constituents, and overall anticarcinogenic mechanisms of tobacco smoke (e.g. IGF-1 supression, KLOTHO activation, etc), as well as the localized effect of increasing of Glutathione production, show that tar is good for you.
The tar scare was a canard, and by making it out to be the boogeyman, cigarettes actually became more dangerous due to the widespread adoption of filters and "light" cigarettes, which removed many of the beneficial constituents of tobacco smoke, and aerosolized the smoke, where it more easily was intaken to the deepest recesses of the pulmonary system. There is a reason why the John Wayne style smokers smoking 60-100 unfiltered cigarettes GENERALLY had better oncological diagnoses, mostly large cell cancers, limited to the the pulmonary periphery compared to what we now see in pack-and-a-half a day light-cigarette smokers who have adenocarcinoma in the innermost recesses of the lung and and much more aggressive small cell cancers.
>>10188559
Tobacco itself is not a carcinogen, as it as a whole has never been shown to induce cancer in healthy animal test subjects, to date. Yes, it contains them but charred steak also contains carcinogens. Toast contains carcinogens. Smoked foods contain carcinogens. All in far greater quantities than that of tobacco smoke. There are constituents within tobacco smoke that exert anticarcinogenic effects which more than compensate for any insults inflicted by the carcinogens within.

>>10190000
>muh sources
My remark about the filters and the "light cigarettes" is not even an opinion that is rejected by orthodox medicine. In fact, studies, one as recent as last year, confirm just this.

https://academic.oup.com/jnci/article-abstract/109/12/djx075/3836090/Cigarette-Filter-Ventilation-and-its-Relationship

http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/11/suppl_1/i51

>>10188351
This.
The majority of great scientists and minds of the past 500 years were tobacco smokers. Tobacco is the thinking man's drug.

>>10190018
its actually meth but cigs are a prerequisite

Dunno about these Juul things. Heard they are expensive.

I use liquid juice vapes. Found it to be an effective way to stop smoking tobacco. Its a crutch. When the craving hits, when I'm feeling on edge, stressed or hanging out for a smoke, I use my vape. It does the job. Haven't had a ciggy in 6 months and dont feel any inclination to have one even when I'm around friends who still smoke.

So far I've dropped by stages from 12 mg nicotine juice down to 6 mg. I plan to drop down to 3 mg, in stages, over the next 6 to 9 months. Its great, for the first time I am confident I can beat this terrible addiction, its also saved me a shitload of money since vaping is far cheaper. Also I dont stink of smoke ( the smell of which is very obvious on others once you stop )

>>10187852
No responses to these?

>>10190503
You talking to me?
Those are consequences of e-cigarette use delivered through the faggot "mods" and one of the numerous hundreds of of flavors, some are terrible irritants. I defend tobacco, used for half a millennium by the white man and thousands of years prior by the natives, not massive clouds of candy idiots inhale. I may down play the harm of a high concentration e-cigarette device purely as a nicotine delivery system but I make no apology in expressing my scorn for these as candy cloud fun boxes. I've personally seen people with e-cigarette induced chronic cough that remained months after total cessation. The acute effects of heavy vaping are unquestionably worse than that of age-old combusted tobacco. This is no surprise if you consider how unnatural a hygroscopic agent carrying the moisture of your saliva into the lung (and in heavy vapes, this can even withdraw moisture from the lung); unlike tobacco smoke which is benign and something the mammalian lung evolved to deal with. The PG/VG exposed lung is inundated by the sudden drastic change in moisture to pulmonary tissue. Indeed, worse than both of those things, there is now evidence emerging that e-cigarette use can cause the migration of throat pathogens into the lungs, essentially capturing them on the descent from the mouth and upper throat into the trachea and into the lungs. I have had people come to me with chronic sinusitis after picking up box e-vaping which I imagine emerged from mouth flora migrating into the sinuses from nasal exhaling.

>>10186692
>Is it safe?
Yes, provided you don't buy fluid from sketchy sources. Fluid also comes at different strength levels with some weaker than normal cigarettes and some stronger. Most people go for weaker because vapes were originally marketed towards people who wanted to quit smoking.
>Should it be banned due to their marketing towards children?
No. It doesn't cause cancer unlike normal cigarettes. So, really it's just an addictive low tier stimulant and banning it is as silly as banning caffeine in soda for kids.
>Does nicotine increase focus?
Yes, but not significantly. It's similar to coffee but it lasts less time and hits harder. It's nothing compared to amphetamines.

It's honestly way better than cigarettes. We should ban cigarettes and not give a fuck who uses vaporizers unless we start seeing manufacturers creating vaporizers or fluids that are meant to deliver dangerous doses of nicotine. I think there's also some research that dripping fluid directly onto the atomizer may cause some dangerous chemical reactions (though I think even then it's still way safer than ordinary cigarettes). Other than that, cultural and social biases against vapes are just that.

>>10190230
You were addicted to nicotine. You are still addicted to nicotine. Also it is okay to be addicted to nicotine in the same way that half the people you meet are addicted to caffeine (i.e. if you enjoy it and don't mind throwing money away it's fine). If you want to quit altogether then you should, but switching to vaping doesn't really count.

>>10190684
>the mammalian lung evolved to deal with tobacco smoke

>>10190684
This is the funniest post I've seen in a while.

>>10190705
Evolved to deal with smoke and particulate matter? Yes
Evolved to deal with a sudden addition of moisture into the innermost pulmonary recesses? No.
The mammalian lung developed in a volcanic, ashy enviroment. One reason why mammals survived the mass extension event better than the reptilian/avian species is because their lungs were much better suited. Indeed, birds and reptiles will die from things like heated teflon pans which, while certainly not good for them, won't kill a human or other mammal. On a microevolutionary timeline, man spent tens of thousands of years in front of fire and inhaling combustion byproducts (not to any benefit and not deliberately) from that in far greater quantities than whatever he is exposed to in tobacco smoke. The body can deal with smoke and is used to it.

I also specifically said
>and something the mammalian lung evolved to deal with.
"Something", which should have implied smoke in general.

I'm not a fan of anything that is physically addictive. Except coffee.

>>10190720
Nicotine and tobacco are about as physically addictive as coffee and offer far greater cognitive benefits. When combined with one another, they yield additional dividends.

>>10190720
Nicotine and caffeine are about as similar as you can get. You're really splitting hairs with this argument.

This SCIfag shilling tobacco so hard I might go back to my nat MCDs. I miss smoking them... now I just juul because it’s supposed to be healthier

>>10190702
>>10190719

>>10190719
you’re fucking stupid

>>10190743
Automatic reaction rooted in emotion devoid of an argument.

>>10186692
I just don't know how smoking and vaping aren't considered a personal chemical attack on all those who breathe it in second hand. If I respond with my fist, it shouldn't be seen as assault, but as self defense.

>>10187844
>>10187238
If you vape don't get the juul. It's overpriced as fuck, it's essentially the iphone of vaping.

I used to spend $200 a month on juul pods then got a refillable pod system (justfog minifit) and now I spend around $15 a month on the same amount of nicotine.

DUDE SHITPOSTING LMAOxDDDDDD

>>10190741
>>10190743
What part(s) of what he said do you think are wrong and why?

>>10189949
Hipsters and other "ironic" moronic adults who prefer something flavored? Growing up doesn't mean you have to stop liking sweets, anon.

When it comes to weed vapes I prefer the fruity shit over straight weed. But I also don't smoke cigarettes and I kinda hate the "burnt plant" taste.

>>10193513
>Growing up doesn't mean you have to stop liking sweets, anon.
This. Only pretentious wannabe adults act like candy and sweets are only for children. One of the better things about being an adult is being able to buy as much candy as I want whenever the fuck I want to.

>>10186692
IDK really, I'm thinking of vaping Cannabis, but then again, I hardly smoke it to begin with…
Amphetamines are the thinking man's drug anyhow.

>>10190702

>You were addicted to nicotine. You are still addicted to nicotine

Well no shit, you retarded fuck.

>If you want to quit altogether then you should, but switching to vaping doesn't really count.

Hey look, its unfortunate your mother and father were siblings, but hang in there. Protip, dont speak in public and people may not notice your immense stupidity.

>>10191646
How often do you have to replace the pod due to it becoming burnt?

>>10186692
Mouth fedoras?

>>10196120
Each pod lasts 5-10 refills so it last me usually around 2 weeks.

>>10196120
Also make sure to get nicotine salt eliquid, not freebase nicotine, that's what juul uses. And make sure the VG/PG ratio of your liquid is 50/50 and nicotine content is at least 30mg/ml.

P O P C O R N

L U N G

>>10186692
Has Juuling hit your social circles? It's kind of hilarious to watch. People start doing it because they think it's safe. But the nicotine content of those pods are so high they quickly become addicted. I have 3 friends in various stages of denial over their new Juul addiction.

>>10196753
It's as addictive as a cup of coffee. If they were drinking coffee, would you think of that as addiction? It's not pleasurable for most people, the addiction lies in the behavioral use. Intelligent people use nicotine as a performance enhancing drug, helps them speak more eloquently, increases memory consolidation, the list goes on. Vaping is the pleb tier route of administration though.

>>10197885
>If they were drinking coffee, would you think of that as addiction?
Yes, although technically it's only considered a physical dependence.

>>10196753
They will be poor soon because juul is overpriced as fuck.

>>10187759
>burnt tobacco particles are smaller than volacnic ash particles, which makes them safer
baka

>>10186692
Giving drugs to children should be avoided if possible, not good for developing brains.

>>10198389
That's not how it works.

POPCORN LUNG
O
P
C
O
R
N L U N G

>>10186692
its fucking retarded, dangerous and I remember people shilling it as safer than regular smoking 5-6 years ago.

anything that isn't normal air shouldn't be in your lungs, you're still getting nicotine which is bad for your circulatory system, but it's probably better for you than having your lungs fill with black tar.

>>10189690
I literally googled vasodilator list and it wasn't on a single one. What kind of retard are you?

>>10198950
Simpleton logic.

Nikotin is a toxin its not an stimulant like koffein.


Vape is still Heavenly toxic for your body

Don't be a fuckin pussy, smoke cigarettes. If you're one of those pansys that doesn't want to smoke in the house because of smell, then fuck you. We're all going to die anyway, and we exist for the sake of entertainment, so throw away your self pride and light up. Get yourself a good ash tray and a cool zippo lighter and some matches, smoke up.

>>10186790
>>10187671
>>10187759
>>10190000
>>10190000
>>10190007
You seem fairly well-read on this topic. Could you tell me about heavy metal uptake and bioaccumulation in tobacco plants? If I were to grow my own plants while avoiding fertilizers and soil known to have radionucleotides, could I lessen the carcinogenic effect? Or are all plants already "tainted" like the geneological accumulation of lead in humans?

>brainlets and neckbeards
>vaping
>smoking
what a bunch of faggots
why don’t we throw in some Monster energy, get a manbun to cover up that baldspot and some tats

enjoy ED, smaller penis, bitch tits, depression, and withdrawal

y’all gonna have fun knocking that ashtray over and littering your balcony with butts

>>10187671
holy shit are you actually this retarded.

>>10199194
>You seem fairly well-read on this topic. Could you tell me about heavy metal uptake and bioaccumulation in tobacco plants?
This is a common argument but it ignores that many edible plants likewise show similar, trace amounts of heavy metals and extremely trace amounts of radioactive isotopes. These are strawmanned (or rather, scarecrowed!) when looking at nicotiana tabacum in anti-tobacco research because tobacco carcinogenesis cannot be satisfactorily demonstrated through tobacco smoke in experimental studies with healthy animal subjects.
Let us not forget, that researchers who peddle this hypothesis dishonestly measured the trace elements not from the leaf but the stems and reconstituted sheet (which itself often contains dirt), from pesticide/fertilizer intensive tobacco. Whole-leaf, organic tobacco would undoubtedly produce more favorable (or from their perspective, less) results
The only feasible way to I can envision to come close to eliminating the presence of heavy metals in any plant would be to hydroponically grow them, using distilled water with added minerals after the fact. Regardless, I believe these trace amounts in plants are dwarfed by the inevitable bioaccumulation that follows when larger species eat them and we eat the members of said species. The best thing you can do is source organic products which tend to be grown further away from urban areas (largest sources of soil contaminants).
>>10201225
You are not able to entertain an idea that you disagree with. Your post is an emotionally-fueled ad hominem. Please return to www.reddit.com, and use that obvious rage to downvote all you like. Your lunkhead post actually gave more legitimacy to my case.

>>10199261
>enjoy ED
Does not cause ED. Tobacco increases NO, much like PDE5 inhibitors do. It's just people are engaged in more cerebral activities on nicotine, which is why it's the intellectuals drug rather than the sex fiends.
>smaller penis
When flaccid, perhaps. However, the same applies to coffee or any other stimulant. Even heavy thinking releases catecholamines that shrink the size of the flaccid. Only a homosexual would be concerned with this, and it goes away quickly after concentrations of nicotine subside (and subsides quickly mind you, with a 1-2 hour half-life)
>bitch tits
Wrong. Tobacco smoking increases testosterone which lowers estrogen, the exact opposite of gynecomastia.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24457405
>depression
Dead wrong once more.
Tobacco is one of the most efficacious and widely used anti-depressants of all time. There are components of it that suffice to explain it's antidepressant effects such as the MAO inhibitor constituents.
>withdrawal
Only as bad as withdrawal (namely headache) from coffee, and even more short-lived. It could be that you were weak willed. Although, you are someone who unironically used "y'all", so I don't think you have much going for you in the self-control or smarts department. It seems you're a bitter ex-addict who is projecting his past unhealthy lifestyle and associating it with smoking.

>>10190684
A graph doesn't prove causation, but a graph showing a strong correlation combined with a plausible causal mechanism is certainly strong evidence for causation.

>>10187671
>SMOKE GOOD

>>10186790
It's not that much of a surprise imo that it has cognitive benefits, coffee and tobacco were the drugs of choice throughout humanity's most productive period

>>10189949
Manchildren

>>10196753
Yup. Have a friend who started vaping to "quit cigs", but is absolutely addicted to the vape.

>>10187671
Inhale some polonium then.

>>10203433
PooLoonium
Truly the pajeet nightmare

>>10190723
Horse shit. Coffee addictions are done in like 2 weeks. Nicotine addictions last much longer and the withdrawals are shittier

>>10199160
No thanks, my friend smokes and spends $15-$20 a day on cigs. I'll stick to vaping which gets me the same nic content at a cost of $0.30 a day.