/sci/ - Science & Math

No, we would see infrared light even if they had covered every star with a Dyson sphere/swarm. The thing about a Dyson sphere is that it has to emit as much energy as it collects from the star inside it, otherwise it will continue to heat up until it starts to visibly glow anyway. This means by looking for longer wavelengths we would be able to see any 'hidden' stars in the Bootes void. However, we see nothing.

Also the blocking of star light would not prevent any gas and dust clouds from blocking light from behind the void, and that does not happen. The void is a region of space very empty of normal matter and dark matter.

>>10181173
>>10181188
Isn't the Boote's Void galaxy supercluster sized?

>>10181173
>>10181188
Also why is the image search from OP getting the Barnard-68 dark cloud result?

>>10181173
Voids are expected under the current model.
Bootes is no where near the biggest.
Our milky way is inside one

i dont see how it proves a type 3 civilization. That void is huge and so weird. There is stuff everywhere why is there a void many light years across?

>>10181188
How can you know what technology such a civilization would have?
If they could harness clusters of galaxies I'm certain they could contain every last bit of energy

>>10181188
>The thing about a Dyson sphere is that it has to emit as much energy as it collects from the star inside it
Are you retarded? What would be the point of a Dyson sphere if it just emitted all the energy it collected?

>>10181289
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KBC_Void

>>10181293
like a dam
all the water it collects, must at some point move along

>>10181188
The thing about a Dyson sphere is that it's fucking retarded sci fi bullshit.

>>10181173
Is this what the rest of the universe looks like? Galaxies and stars everywhere?

>>10181481
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_cosmic_structures#List_of_largest_voids

>>10181173
Man it sure would suck to live in one of the galaxies in that void. You'd never get anywhere, it'd be like living in the rural US without a car.

>>10181702
they're strange galaxies too, rolled up like a tube

That isn't Bootes void, it's a molecular cloud called Barnard 68 inside our own galaxy. It isn't empty either, there's 60 galaxies in it.

>>10181782
>inside our own galaxy
>60 galaxies in it.

>>10181821
Yo dawg, we heard you like galaxies...

>>10181491
Why?

>>10181173
It is a proof of big foot

>>10181838
You couldn't keep it centered over time.

>>10181858
wtf why not?

>>10181861
Because what keeps the planets in orbit is that they pull on the sun, and the sun pulls back. If you have a complete ring around your planet then it's trying to pull in every direction equally. One push in any direction and then one side pulls more than the other, and eventually your star crashes through the side of your dyson sphere.
Image you're on a merry go round at a playground, and it's spinning really fast, and you're standing in the exact center of it. As long as you stay dead still everything will be fine, wobble too much and you get flung outward.
You either need thrusters that can move the mass of the inner planets, and a super structure that can hold up to the stress or sci-fi tier anti-gravity. You can get around it by breaking up the sphere into smaller pieces.

>>10181880
I don't imagine the dyson sphere as a single object, but rather a vast array of objects. I really don't think a problem arises here

>>10181897
Thats literally the distinction between a dyson swarm and a dyson sphere.

Really makes you think...

These guys are just now witnessing the birth of the universe.

>>10181173
>proof

Mysteries are not proof of anything.
"Nobody knows how x works, therefore y does it."

Mysteries are just that, mysteries. The furthest thing from a proof is a mystery.

>>10181289
>>10181481
God we are so lucky

I bet a type III is plowing their way to type IV and we're last in line

>>10181947
Maybe they're leaving galaxies that have noteworthy life

>>10181173
Install Gentoo

>>10181173
Can we stop posting this fucking shit please?

1. Its not Bootes Void.
2. Its not a void.

>>10182229
This

>>10181293
That's entropy for you.

>>10181173
Or a type 4 - 5

>>10181188
Any advanced civ would want to camoflage its presence. Instead of a void we'd see utterly mundane normal space

>>10181173
Hoag's Object

A nearly perfect ring of young hot blue stars circles the older yellow nucleus of this ring galaxy c. 600 million light-years away in the constellation Serpens.

>>10182351
Why? Nobody can hide in space.
Please don’t spread Dark Forest theory nonsense

>>10182353
>Dark Forest theory nonsense
It's the only model and evidence we have for contact between civilizations. If you think it could turn out otherwise, what are you basing this on?

>>10182229
What exactly is it anon?

>>10181292
This, if we're just positing sci fi magic maybe they convert it to different dimensional matter. Maybe a dyson sphere convert objective energy into subjective and it's a giant mind. It's all totally in the air.

>>10181880
Nonsense, it would stay tethered to all the gravitational forces around. Beyond that if we can keep satellites in orbit some future world can do that.

>>10181173
I want /x/ to leave this board.

>>10182389
Something massive in the way that inhibits our view

>>10182370
>It's the only model and evidence we have for contact between civilizations.
On a planet, plus civilizations like Japan or Thailand weren’t destroyed by contact with others.
Unlike a continent, a planetary life is perfectly visible since it starts by telescopes, there is zero chance of hiding.

>>10182441
Does it have a name?

>>10182445
>On a planet, plus civilizations like Japan or Thailand weren’t destroyed by contact with others
Neither of those were isolated, and in any case plenty of postcolonial thinkers would tell you they *were* destroyed or at least badly affected by Western interference

>>10182370
Dark forest is stupid because any sufficiently advanced civilization would have long outgrown conflict. Otherwise they wouldn't be sufficiently advanced.

>>10182517
Or they got really, really good at conflict

>>10182468
Bane

>>10182517
what a retarded opinion

all known life loves to wreck and kill things

>>10182488
Earth’s biosphere is perfectly visible to any advanced civilization with telescopes since billions of years.
There’s no point in hiding

>>10181188
>The thing about a Dyson sphere is that it has to emit as much energy as it collects from the star inside it

I'm glad you are an expert on alien technology millions of years more advanced than ours.

>>10182545
just physics m8

>>10182540
At the moment yes and we'll get instantly squashed by any aggressive aliens who spot us. The minute we get the technology to hide we should and probably will.

>>10182593
that’s not going to chanfe anything, light from our planet already was emitted and any civilization observing universe would knew about our existence

>>10181293
Literally every process involving work being done releases waste heat, anon.

>>10181491
Correct, but it's also the only reason some people think voids are caused by super civilizations, because the stars would be blocked out.

>>10181880
>One push in any direction and then one side pulls more than the other

Actually spherical structures around gravitational sources are stable. The real problem with a true dyson sphere is that no material is strong enough to hold itself up against the Sun's gravity even at large distances. Rather than thinking of a dyson sphere failing because on side fell into the Sun (which wouldn't happen), think of a dyson sphere failing because gravity starts crushing it down in all directions at once.

A dyson swarm gets around this by catching the star's light with billions of independently orbiting objects.

A true dyson sphere in principal could be held up by the same mechanism that holds up an orbital ring superstucture, but orbital rings are also stupid bullshit that will never work in real life.

>>10182348
>that description

having access to a lot of energy does not enable one to change fundamental laws of the universe. It also does not allow you to live inside black holes or do any of that shit. Having a lot of energy literally just means being able to move bigger chunks of matter around at higher speeds.

>>10182545
>>the thing about hydroelectric dams is that you have to let the water flow out to generate electricity
>'but how can you say aliens with really thin phones couldn't generate power just by holding the water back anon?'

you are this retarded

>>10181702
Void distances dont matter if you have intergalactic travel technology. A race from the denser smart if the universe could visit our galaxy anytime they felt it and probably have mapped out every single star in our void.

>>10181188
>implying they havent just swallowed entire stars as a fuel source
First off the Kardashev scale is retarded, because it only takes into account forms of energy we are familiar with. A civilization with the resources to build a dyson sphere could have stumbled upon a much more valuabe source of energy that negated the need for such a structure(zero point vacuum energy, Hawking radiation from a contained kugelblitz, etc). Secondly, a type III civilization would find dyson spheres/swarms as antiquated as we see horse drawn carriages. They supposedly manipulate energy on the scale of entire galaxies. The energy of a single star almost wouldnt be worth their time.

>>10182348
Such a civilization would no longer need energy as they would have complete understanding of planck physics allowing them to do literally anything.

>>10182593
You cant hide from aliens that can see us in real time from another galaxy anon.

>>10182389
Molecular absorption cloud or dark nebula, similar to the horse head nebula or the dark streaks in the trifid nebula

>>10182468
Barnard-68
I know, google image search is hard, you need at least teo PhDs in puremaths

>>10182348
So the Gods that everyone worships because they visited Earth about 12,000 years ago.

>>10182806
Fuck off

>>10182803
stop bullying us brainlets anon :(

>>10182799
>aliens that can see us in real time from another galaxy

voids are natural formations

>>10182536
demonbane

>>10181173
See baby big foot!

>>10182788
Since FTL travel ruins causality, it's probably not going to ever happen anywhere. So even if they had the technology to travel between galaxies, they'd lose a huge amount of time getting there (though they wouldn't experience most of that time themselves), and time available in an expanding universe is limited.

>>10181481
>the milky way and nearby galaxies are stuck in the largest void in the universe
how depressing? we're cut off from the rest of the universe for all eternity.

>>10183808
>we're cut off from the rest of the universe for all eternity.
You ever notice how businesses in areas with high crime tend to move away from those areas?

>>10182889
They are more like unformations

>>10183808
There's nothing out there anyway, it's like a video game that just endlessly generates more map when you go to the border. After you have seen billion stars you have seen them all.

I'm confused. Is that pic just falsely described as Bootes Void? Or has Bootes Void been debunked as being a nebula blocking our view instead?

>>10184078
The void is cool ranch. Nebulas are spicy nacho.

>>10183808
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Void
If I'm reading this right we're not stuck inside it but we're on the edge.

>>10181173
>>10181481
>>10182889
>>10184009
I know how and WHY they form but I'm not telling you guys because it would unleash the next theory of physics to make someone earn the recognition of Einstein.
The only problem is, I cannot do the math yet, but I'll give you /sci/entists a hint. It requires advanced multivarible calculus and a pure grasp of Relativity. Key notes: Know how to derive delta t (Time dilation) and you can figure it out from there.

>>10184115

>>10184114
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Void
150 million light-years across

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KBC_Void
2 billion light-years in diameter
earth is about 10% off the center

150M vs 2G
* vs *************

>>10182724
Redundant heat pumps reducing the handprint of the heat until it can't be seen from interstellar distances.

"The Local Void also appears to have significantly fewer galaxies than expected from standard cosmology"

It would be much of a fucking void if it had galaxies in it now would it?

I love science.

>>10181173
That's not the bootes void dipshit

>>10184018
I need as much matter and energy as possible to use as a computational substrate for my waifu simulator, so it's pretty unfortunate that most of the universe isn't accessible

>>10184748
Voids have everything the more populated areas of the universe has, only less. So yes, voids contain galaxies and shit, only less.

>>10182741
Nothing the pic said violates the laws of physics.

>>10186908
*as far as we know

>>10182741
There's nothing unphysical AFAIK about living in a black hole.
https://arxiv.org/abs/1103.6140
https://arxiv.org/abs/1203.0878

>>10182799
>real time
No such thing.

>>10182441
>>10182468
Dark matter.

>>10186965

>>10181173
Yeah

>>10181188
You're assuming you understand the technology of a potential civilization capable of building dyson spheres.

The escaping energy from a system is wasted only because the system is inefficient. A civilization this advanced could potentially have an efficiency far higher than anything we can currently imagine.

>>10186950
Black holes are just nuetron stars

>>10187015
Crash Course astronomy told me otherwise.

>>10185056
what is their density relative to a normal zone or a super cluster

>>10187123
It's just compress enough that it has an event horizon

>>10187209
Everything has an event horizon bro. You, me, the computer I'm typing on, a single proton, etc.
It's just usually buried so deep inside matter that you can't get to it.
Also a neutron star isn't the theoretical limit to how dense you can get before you form a black hole. You can go beyond the neutron rebound limit and have a quark star.

>>10187001

>>10184980
20-30 years bro, we just have to hold out until then

>>10181173
How would your mothers ass provide proof of type 3 civilization?

>>10188101
I guess those are newborn stars, amazing

>>10187839
>>10186950
Fascinating shit

>>10181173
Maybe it is a Blame! type structure?

>>10188183
Where the fuck would you get the material for that though.

>>10188183
That amount of material would collapse on it's own just from it's mass. That is indeed the stupidest stupid shit I've seen.

space is just the best

>>10188315
clearly you havent studied chem enough. there are metals that can be stable with 300+ protons, which would evedently be stronger than what elements we have access to now

>>10181918
This sounds more dramatic than it is. Knowledge of other galaxies is freaking young, basically starting in the 1920s and 1930s.

>>10188315
It's a chinese cartoon, of course it's fucking stupid

>>10186965
Dark matter doesn't inhibit viewing almost by definition (at most it can lens light away from us).

>>10188352
>there is something we don't know, therefore magic is just beyond the horizon

It's not "everything is possible, it's just undiscovered". It's "we're restrained by reality until science and engineering loosen the shackles a tiny bit".

>>10188106
The only thing more retarded than an ad hom is assuming the max Carnot efficiency of an interplanetary civilization. If they can reduce their waste emission to be comparable to the cosmic background, then they wouldn't be detectable through infrared means.

Stop assuming you would have an understanding of their knowledge and capacity.

>>10188455
And even then we only got lucky because andromeda is close enough to see with the naked eye (and the magellanic clouds I guess.)

>>10188352
Maybe you should study physics as well beyond the regular HS shit. That mass would collapse into a degenerate electron cloud, where gravity forces atoms so close that the normal electron levels are blocked by the nearby atoms and electrons are forced into fewer or singular levels so only the magnetic quantum levels are occupied. In this state the atomic forces are greatly outclassed by the magnetic forces from the degenerate electron cloud and the matter properties are governed by it, effectively becoming a white dwarf, only much bigger in mass so it would quickly collapse into a neutron star, maybe more into a quark star or a black hole.
So it is bullshit. Go back to school and >>>/x/ , retard!

>>10188518
E in and E out, it is as simple as that. In one way or another it should be a radiant bright point in space.
Simple first year physical chemistry 101.

has an explanation been found yet for the prime numbers being sent in binary from oumuamua?

>>10188183
Thats a black hole by sheer mass.

Whats the problem if we are in a void? It will take us millions of years just to explore this one galaxy.

>>10188789
You continue to make the mistake of assuming their knowledge and capacity. This isn't physics 101. This is a hyperadvanced civilization we're talking about.

How are we in a void if a void means it's empty and we're in it?

>>10188841

>>10188789
Energy isn't conserved in cosmology

>>10188868

>>10188943
Expansion literally creates energy out of nothing. What rather seems to be conserved is energy density.

>>10189007

>>10189011
Stop posting your reaction images. We get it, you're an idiot.

>>10187001
Anon we could literally build a dyson swarm right this second. It would take a long time, we'd have to basically ignore the concept of money, but we have ion engines already and that's about as good as it gets before fusion candles or proper torch drives.
>>10188841
Unless they've found a way to meme their couple % of waste heat out of existence or are hiding exclusively from us and only us by beaming all of their heat away from our view they still won't be invisible.

>>10188852
It's just a void in comparison to other things, and sounds cool. Just like how vacuum isn't actually a true vacuum just ultra-rarefied compared to nebulae or planetary atmospheres.

>>10188218
>>10188315
In Blame! There are machines that can convert energy into mass, and machines called gravity furnaces that keep the City from falling in on itself.

>>10188888

>>10189049
>Just like how vacuum isn't actually a true vacuum just ultra-rarefied
There is always the space between particles, which is as true a vacuum as it gets.

>>10188183
Blame!'s technology is overtly magical in it's nature and capabilities, and the story makes no pretension to realism at all. Not to mention 5.2 AU is essentially nothing compared to the Bootes. The city is about 86.5 light-minutes in diameter, while the Bootes Void is 330 million light years in diameter and has an approximate volume of 236,000 cubic Megaparsecs.