/sci/ - Science & Math

>>10155385

earth would just cut off all aid and supplies to mars

>>10155396
Independent != self-sufficient

>>10155385
Yeah. Independence would be a mean trick to accomplish. Probably would not be worth the expense to fight over. Like England saying "fuckit" letting the USA have the country. Could always just mail in some bombs. Looking further into the future. Its bound to happen someday. Cool.

>>10155385
Very hard because the very same rockets that brought the self-sufficiency equipment and people can be used to bring a nuke, two, and platoon of 1g trained soldiers.
Or few microish meteor impacts if the public opinion is not in the genocide the traitorous colonists fad but that's unlikely considering the groups that will be leaving for Mars and the masses that will be staying here.

Sovereignty is not permitted ownership of any space body according to current worldwide treaties.

The UN would send an interplanetary nuclear missile and wreck their shit.

Corporations will rule space and the citizens will be their property.

>>10155701
see, the colonists just need a MAD plan
once they have nukes or sufficient cargo capacity to just drop rocks on capitals sovereignty shouldn't be too hard
the governing bodies will arise from the corporations that own it

>>10155707
Jello babies.

Mars colonists will die off in a few generations without a rotating habitat.

>>10156372
Cool hypothesis

>>10155385
I doubt they would be self-sufficient at any point. If they could, their population will be so small and vulnerable that "restoring order" would be easy that they won't even risk declaring independence in the first place.

>>10156528
At any point !Ever! Dude... EVER? Just messing with you.

>>10156532
If there is little commercial exchange, probably no one would mind. Or maybe it is going to be "independent" from the start.

It is an interesting question because raises questions about how it would be the "inter-planetary" law. Right now, no nation can claim anything as own, but that could change in the future.

>>10156553
Can't we just call dibs right now? Really, I'm pretty drunk. No reply required. I like when /sci/ is fun. I claim Mars for 4chan anons!

>>10155396
Okay, but there would be a huge uproar on Earth if this happened, guaranteed. Earth isn't hivemind.

United nations will never allow it. Not The "UN" only. Once the reality that offworld colonies, cities, economies, armies, and resource exploitation kicks in for the world governments, the dream is over.
So far it goes under the radar because common sense and the most realistic truthful NASA plans dictate 3 man 1 week sortie on Mars price tags begin at 500 billion dollars and that does not cover bureaucracy tax, Boeing subsidy, or minor technicalities. Colony building like that is impossible as far as possible impossible things like reaching 0.5c with solid rocket boosters go.
But, if it is easy, if it is cheap.
If it is...
>possible and real
Then we're going to see some serious attention and plenty of underhanded tricks.

>>10155385
It really depends on how independent it is economicallly. Basically every colony (not outpost) has some amount of ISRU and manufacturing in the plan. Mars has all the resources required for autarky, it's just getting all the industry and population that is also required that's iffy.
If Mars isn't autarkic, and wants to go independent then it needs something to offer in trade for the supplies it needs even if Earth agrees with their independence. What Mars could offer is limited - basically nothing is worth exporting back to Earth. You'd need pretty specific circumstances for them to have something to offer - in fiction there's things like all the colonists putting their net worth into a trust that then invests the money on behalf of the colonists and the profits are used to buy things but even that is probably not going to be enough.
If it can become economically independent, then it comes down to what is it offering Earth? Again there is probably nothing being exported so what is there worth going to war over? Maybe international politics ala cold war or even just saving face given they invested in the colony in the first place but that's expensive pride.
So overall The Interplanetary War of Independence is fairly unlikely overall.

>>10156614

>United Nations will never allow it

Guess how I know that you're a really objectively fucking stupid dumb as fuck person.

>>10156372
The disease and degeneration will be interesting but I'm sure by the time people are established on Mars we'll be editing genes.

>>10156614

Lmao, the UN wouldn't do shit.

There are compelling reasons as to why a Martian independence would never occur but this is certainly not one of them.

>>10155385
By the time humans are able to colonize Mars, we will all have been turned into paperclips by an AI.

>>10156649
You can only do so much with genetics. The environment there will change the people who have been exposed to it from birth and before.

Martians will be weaker and more fragile. A crack force of middle aged dads from earth could go there and bully them.

>spacex operations suspended and under extreme inquiry after drug use scandal
>"were going to mars"
HAHAHAHA

>>10156372
rotating habitat and gene therapy/editing both sound doable

>>10155593
>bring a nuke, two, and platoon of 1g trained soldiers.

This is a good example of why /sci/ would benefit from some sort of real identity verification to screen out underage users.

>>10155385
Humans will never establish a sustainable colony on a dead world like Mars. We need to smash a water moon like Europa into it and see if that can kickstart geological activity.

>>10155385
>Mars colony

>>10156680
>NASA worried about its image

Oh I'm laffin'

>>10157405
>We need to smash a water moon like Europa into it and see if that can kickstart geological activity.

It is worse than that actually. I doubt it is even possible at all.

>>10155385
War is inevitable ,and ultimately good. Mars is the future, Earth is the past.

>>10155569
this

>>10156595
Is there a huge uproar when Russia gets embargoed by nearly the entire world while having an impoverished population? Or when North Korea does, for it's entire existence, when it has starving masses?
No.

>>10157395
I have been spending a lot of time lately thinking about placing rotating habitats on the surface of space bodies. Craters are convenient for this purpose.

Support struts would need to be sunk into the surrounding regolith. A roof of regolith overhead to insulate against radiation. Room for living and recreation is all that would be required.

Industry and agriculture could be done at the surface. Labourers would work in shifts, returning to the crushing 1g in the habitat at night and during their recuperation periods.

I just don't like Mars. The gravity well is too deep.

>>10155569
>the future is bound to happen someday
whoah

>>10157989
>gravity well too deep for easy space industry
>not deep enough for easy human habitation
at least there's a fucking bajillion tons of iron over there
what's the prospectus on martian space elevator?

>>10158050
Feasible to construct with current technology but there is a big problem.

Collision between the cable and the largest moon would be inevitable, expensive and dangerous.

It's almost as if we are being told not to go there...

>>10158058
just de-orbit the moon

>>10158059
It would probably be far safer to convert its entire mass into our first supermassive space habitat and stabilise its orbit. Then why have people living on the surface at all.

Mars is beyond our reach with current technology and the total absence of a space industry.

Short of a life sentence prison colony devoid of females or the creation of a degenerate offshoot of the human species, the place is beyond our reach within an ordinary lifespan.

There are easier first steps to get us into space and keep us there (and keep us healthy).

I'm always crashing these threads with a reality check though so feel free to ignore me and continue to fantasise.

Someday we will need Mars.

>>10156642
There is an inverse economic issue as well. England fought to retain its colonies because they were all highly profitable. No one has suggested a way that an Earth could actually profit from Mars. (Geology knowledge is only so valuable.). If Mars doesn't turn a profit for Earth, then why would Earth care if Mars goes independent?

Imagine if all the nations of the world spent trillions to set up Mars habitats. Once it was set up and running nicely, the colonists cut communication and say they are their own people now.
I would be fuming.

>>10158058
> Space elevator
> Feasible to construct with current technology
Please don't speak if you have absolutely no fucking idea what you are talking about.

>>10156673
>A crack force of middle aged dads from earth could go there and bully them.

Yes hello we have these things called firearms now.

>>10158072
> Mars is beyond our reach with current technology
More brain diarrhoea that's just not true, which particular technology don't we have? There's already been dozens of simulated colony missions solely reliant on their own food and water, unable to go outside unless in a bulky suit and all communications delayed. Many of these have run successfully for over a year.

Getting people and equipment to Mars is perfectly viable, it just costs a lot.

>>10158157
martian elevator, not earth

>>10158090
That was his entire 3rd paragraph anon.

>>10155385

Well we just go in and change the rate of spin with a big fucking asteroid, and there you go, we just changed the gravity, younger Dryas event, it happened here on Earth. You fucking retards go back to Newtonian physics.

>>10158328
literacy and intelligence have no business on /sci/

>>10158179
he doesn't know, he has absolutely no remote understanding of anything related to space, he just heard some other retard's opinions and now spews them everywhere while ignoring everything said back to him

>>10157683
Yes, but you must admit, it would be hillarious to watch the religious leaders panic as they realize judgement day cannot occur on two planets at once, thus destroying their prophecy and forcing their goal post to shift, only to realize there is now an entirely new planet of people, polarized against the belief in flat earth and bullshit religions or conspiracy theories.

Then those same people in their militant atheistic logical crusade decide to declare war on earth and decimate this place in a string of decimation that would make Hiroshima and Nagasaki look like a fucking joke.

"MUH JESUS, MUH ALLAH, MUH BUDDHA, MUH RELIGOONS~!" they would cry, as an asteroid is slammed into each and every one of their stupid faces.

Then finally man can be free and live a life of truth in the stars. The promise it made to itself long ago. Prophecy fulfilled.

The Emperor of Mankind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wy-sVTaZRPk

>>10158429
>tipping this fucking hard

>>10155385
they wouldn't buy it, and the "martians" wouldn't do that unless the group was suicidal
what's more important, is how Wifi will be able to travel that far from there to here?

>>10158429
Your caricature of religion is inaccurate, anon. But you're right, in the end, all that remains is to worship humanity as divinity in a dark, blightful universe of cretinous xeno scum and inhuman corruption. Recognition of self in one-another and hatred of the other, ultimately our only weapon marching towards salvation.

>>10157405
that'd prob destroy the planet, like it almost did with Earth and that early planet Thera like 4 billion years ago

>>10158110
we have more pressing issues on earth, like child starvation, wiping out wildlife, large swaths of unemployment, and sex trade to name some

>>10158429
idk, i can see it being still there
like in the bible it does say the elect will be brought from one end of heaven to the other...why didn't they say earth instead?

>>10158535

>>10158522
>Tips fedora

How about I tip your entire planet over.

>>10158540
>)
you know it

>>10158544
could you at least fucking try
/x/ and /r9k/ spamming 24/7 is bad enough as it is, we don't need no effort shitposters too

>>10158528
>s, but you must admit, it would be hillarious to watch the religious leaders panic as they realize judgement day cannot occur on two planets at once, thus destroying their prophecy and forcing their goal post to shift, only to realize there is now an entirely new planet of people, polarized against the belief in flat earth and bullshit religions or conspiracy t

Relativity is king anon.

>>10158547
look i'm ok with sending ppl to space, but if we want to send an expensive space colony to Mars then first we should clean here more so. which is hard i know

>>10158555
>we should clean

The autism. There is no saving this place. We leave ASAP.

>>10158556
What if the Mars colony fails eh? Then we're fucked as home base is completely gone.

>>10158558
THEN THANK GOODNESS WE DIED TRYING.

>>10158558
Have you ever hated someone so badly you would do anything to get away? ANYTHING?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQMYWll74Hk

>>10158561
well i agree

>>10158558
why exactly are we, as an entire fucking planet of nations, only capable of doing ONE SINGLE THING EVER
retards like you can never answer this question

>>10158562
well ive had death threats b4 since ppl would set me up as a teenager and make elaborate lies to get me in shit tho they seemed nice...so yea
Ok how about this? We can go to Mars and the Moon again, but don't overdo it as we have missions here on Earth still.

I feel like half this thread is the expanse larping. We can go to mars. Hell we would of gone to mars if we did that instead of the shuttle.

Also 1/3 gravity probably isn't that bad for the human body. You probably skirt by all the serious issues desu. Even after 0 gravity it's not like human beings are fucked up. 1/3 might be a cake walk by comparison.
I say we nuke the martians if they ever try to declare independence.
Also I do admit passive radiation sucks a lot. Granted people have produced solutions. But if we can get a million fuckers to mars I bet you we could have the infrastructure to fix that.

>>10158566
I can answer it you judgmental asshole. We should help each other out.

>>10158570
i wonder how badly that would raise prices in food that farmers would grow, as some would be sent to space and be hella expensive

>>10158569
>>10158561
Luckily, I'm an idiot, but a smart one when I am raging like this, so here is the deal. We robotize the space industry. Automatons go up. Resources come back in the form of light. Then when all is set and done, we move, we colonize and the hardest part, at the very end, when we hold the cards, we show NO MERCY.

We will only take prisoners, in the form of ashes.

>>10155385
Independence from what?
You're not going to have an earth body governing mars for practical reasons alone. Are you going to send representatives from mars to DC so they can vote on legislation that doesn't concern them?
What the fuck do Martians care about immigration policy? They don't even have borders, and the bar to entry is interplanetary travel, and the solution to unwanted elements is only an airlock away.
Besides that, international treaties prevent Nation states from claiming space-clay. individuals like People and Corporations have no such restriction. So if you can get to the moon, and set up a moon base, you can raise the flag of OPISAFAGISTAN no problem.
The real question is, what does mars have that earth needs that would necessitate them exerting control over the colony?
Until your colony becomes self sufficient they're going to rely on whatever is coming from home so "independence" is less important than cooperation.

>>10158590
>Luckily, I'm an idiot, but a smart one when I am raging like this, so here is the deal. We robotize the space industry. Automatons go up. Resources come back in the form of light. Then when all is set and done, we move, we colonize and the hardest part, at the very end, when we hold the cards, we show NO MERCY.

Jesus Christ dude, what the hell crawled up your ass and died?

>>10158596
Mars is the planet of war. I can think of no better inheritor than an absolute psychopathic warlord.

>>10158590
I see where you're getting at, i like the gist. But then you'll have those UN members protesting that it is inhumane. So what do you think could be an alternative to the "only dead prisoners" idea?

>>10158590
>I'm an idiot, but a smart one...

/sci/ in a nut shell.

>>10158594
Fuck yeah dude! I'm taking you when I go to Mars.

>>10158594
terraforming will be available several decades from now

>>10158603
What are they going to do?

'PROTEST' AT THE METEORITE AS IT SLAMS INTO EARTH!?!?!

>>10158429
I'm a 40kfag and you're just making us look worse than ever. Unironically kill yourself.

>>10158610
shit u r scary, but i see your joking

>>10158613
>He doesn't even know the lore.

The Empirium destroyed all the worlds religions. Also, no such thing as bad marketing.

>>10158620
Warhammer 40k is a fictional story, you psychopath. None of what happens in it, not even the Imperial Truth, should be applied in reality.

>>10158608
[fart noise]

>>10158624
Stages of acceptance:

>War hammer is fiction.

>War hammer never happened.

War hammer never happened...but it should have.

>>10158157
Look into it. I will enjoy knowing how retarded you will feel.
>>10158158
You wouldnt even need them.
>>10158179
Yes. Enjoy creating a mutant offshoot of our species. Mars is a brainlet fantasy.

>>10158608
Can't we start terraforming now? You guys do the math, I'll bring the rocket fuel. Shoot some anaerobic algee up there or some shit. That way the job'll be started when we get there.

>>10158570
space is for the spacenoids, motherfucker
Seig Zeon

>>10158708
well we technically can, but to live on it like we do on Earth it'll take decades if not centuries

>>10158627
yes, more greenhouse gases please

how hard would it be for an arctic base to declare independence?

>>10158594
Commander!

Can you take this one?>>10159016

>>10158934
millennia actually

>>10160536
that's making it comfortable, which is why i mentioned that we need to take care of our Earth first than sending a lot of ppl to Mars like some want.

>>10159016
Fairly hard, Arctic land is all part of some country. A base that is not on land would have some resources issues being self-sufficient.

>>10157989
It'd be like living in a big version of these rides

>>10160579
Yes. Only with a minimum radius of 220m. Maximum RPM of 2.

The larger the radius less RPM is needed and less discomfort is experienced due to the coriolis effect.

Some individuals are less susceptible to the discomfort than others however my interest evolves from a strong desire to create the first interplanetary cruiser.

A large, luxurious beast where anything can be bought. For a price.

Even a trip to Saturn where you can look down on the great red spot while high on the best LSD.

A man can dream. It's been difficult though with my limited knowledge of engineering and lack of unlimited finances.

>>10155385
I hope that Mars doesn't become an independent country, but a mix of colonies and independent countries. A single unified planet is interesting, but a mix is even more interesting.

>>10155385
>How hard would be for a Mars colony to declare independence from Earth?
Trivial given that with current tech it takes months to give there, meaning that any mars colony has such a high degree of autonomy it is de facto independent

>Earth leaders would go "yeah, whatever" or there would be space wars and shit?
If there ever was a war, Mars would lose since Earth would have vastly more established industry to work with

>>10155701
>The UN would send an interplanetary nuclear missile and wreck their shit.
Even if the UN did have nuclear missiles to enforce that, you'd have months of warning time to get point defense or and ABM to shot the warhead

>>10158708
yes, but moving a volume of gas to give mars an earth like atmosphere is going to take thousands if not 10s of thousands of years, even if you do have fusion

>>10155701
That treaty will be thrown out as soon as colonization becomes possible. Treaties are not all powerful, they get broken all the time.

>>10160965
>"stealth" launch a warhead in between the numerous civilian launches for tourists and sats
>warhead black painted on the side that will be pointed toward Mars
That's never going to be needed though, other less direct means will be employed much earlier.
The organization un itself is irrelevant all that's needed is superpower members agreeing it's a bad idea to allow future planetary and interplanetary power to be born and allowed to grow.

>>10160976
>>warhead black painted on the side that will be pointed toward Mars
That dosen't work because a nuclear warhead would still glow in the infrared and stick out easily compared to the background of space.

>>10160981
You are overestimating how easy it is to see things in space.

>>10160988
no I'm not. the CMBR is about 2.7 Kelvin meanwhile everything needed to keep a nuke operational and ready to donate would give it a temperature of at least near room temperature( give or take)
The Voyager probes presently transmit at about 20 watts and their easy to spot, a nuclear missile that needs to have guidance controls functioning is not going to be near absolute zero.

>>10160992
The voyagers are not "seen", they are radio tracked since the beginning because that's the whole point.
And there was (absolute) zero attempt at making them less easy to see.
Expecting military applied technology especially for decapitation attacks like the one speculated to behave like this is ridiculous to the point I wonder whether or not you fell from Mars or have one of those magical star trek sensors and are willing to sell it to interested parties in the hopefully not so distant future.

>>10160941
Also my hopes for space colonisation. A new era of diversity. So many new possibilities will emerge over time.

>>10160967
Also incredibly likely. Corporations will initially own the colonies and the people within them. It's inevitable though that the people will seek autonomy and independence.

Each corporation will deal with this situation in their own way. Some colonies will be too valuable for a corporation to relinquish control easily.

It will be up to the individuals involved to negotiate an accord. Many colonies will be able to buy their independence from the parent corporation which settled them.

This does not take into account colonies managed by a ruling oligarchy of founding family members. This would be the easiest way to create a colony. Several families pooling their finances to afford the oportunity.

It is also the most problematic from the perspective of the citizens who join them later. It will essentially be a situation of nobles and peasants.

>>10161008
>they are radio tracked since the beginning because that's the whole point.
that's not my point, even they weren't a 20 watt signal from the edge of the solar system is still easily detectable with current non-military technology

>And there was (absolute) zero attempt at making them less easy to see.
and painting a warhead black dosen't make it invisible in the infrared

Its getting pretty awesome in here

Mars is the booby prize of space.

Why the FUCK should we settle for Mars? It's nothing amazing. The better move is a dyson sphere and space colony that can move throughout space, absorbing meteors and manufacturing things from rare earths.

Mars does not have the right gravity, it doesn't have an atmosphere, it doesn't have anything worth seizing that doesn't already exist in space. It's simply nonsense to want to colonize something like that.

The better play is to perfect habitats like colonies and eco-system contained shelters. Then you can live anywhere. Like, say, the sea floor, or the arctic/antarctic, or on top of the sea.

>>10161021
better yet, instead of colonizing mars you deconstruct the planet to make the orbital habitats of a Dyson sphere

>>10161015
"Painted black" as in intentional attempt to minimize its visibility, to minimize risk of detection, for reasons that are obvious, anon.
Not literally, you know, paint it black with can bought from home depot.

Since you seem somewhat autistic and it's never fun to argue with people like that when they've made up their minds, I'll provide the particular example of the stealth sat attempt that made me write my original post that started this awful mess of shitposting and then I'm giving up because you win.

>>10161027
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misty_(satellite)
>Objects associated with the satellite decayed on March 31, 1990, but the satellite was seen and tracked later that year and in the mid-1990s by amateur observers

>>10161021
I'm afraid of the mutants that will evolve there but Mars is the meme that has these enthusiasts mesmerised.

I find it easier to talk about the colonies by believing they will be purpose built orbital habitats.

>>10161010
>It will essentially be a situation of nobles and peasants.
the time for space knights is nigh

space knights invading a megacorp cyberpunk space colony, with promises of freedom for the oppressed underclass but in reality they are there for their space oil and dont give a fuck about the peasants

>>10161059
And so the cycle continues.

Seeking freedom from the oil knights of space the peasants leave for another star.

>>10161027
Jumping in here. Would detection be easy (thermal blah blah) but only if you know where to point sensors, which may be a needle in a hay stack? Sounds like everyone is making sense but not on the same page.

There is the makings of a good book in this thread. You guys are the best.

>>10160579
>gravitron forever
Unironically 12-year-old-me's dream.

>>10161503
>hyper gravity chamber

>>10157476
>atmosphere close to 1g
Wow, anon, that’s heavy air.

>>10161127
Strongly doubt something small and intentionally dark can be detected early even with dedicated large telescopes looking for spooks without knowing exact orbital parameters. The Tesla Roadster and the attached Falcon 9 upper stage, according to the wiki page, had a magnitude of 15 just 2 days after launch. And that is gigantic bright object compared to small impactor or a bomb. Maybe only coordinated observation from multiple sides by ground and space based telescopes could catch it with some time for intercept.

Leaking information about the launch is a lot more likely.

While on the topic I prefer a well placed tungsten rod instead of nukes. Much easier to to wave off as meteor accident, and plays perfectly into a narrative about the horrors humans meet beyond the Earth and why they should stay home obedient to their wise leaders.

>>10161527
meant for>>10161123

>>10161123
>only if you know where to point sensors
You just need a wide scan to identify anything peaking out from the norm, then have more intensive scans to resolve the blips as a warhead being accelerated towards you, or just some random non-threatening thermal event that you can monitor to make sure it's not something sneaky earther-ploy.
If you're going to try and fuck something up against interplanetary distances using a hyper-kinetic mass driver is going to be the better choice.
If you build it right the other guy shouldn't see the "muzzle flash" of the railgun too far ahead of your relativistic projectile.

>>10161127
I've thought about it but I'm afraid if this gets made into a story nobody will believe it can become real.

>>10160941
I kinda want it to be a testing ground for everyone's idea for a utopia. You think your particular brand of communism will actually work this time around, well heres a place where you can live without being under an existing government, get all your commie friends and pool your money to buy a Colony Kit and tickets on the next rocket and try it out. If you succeed, others will come and join you and you'll grow. If you fail, well thats one more system to tick off the list of options.

>>10161127
Isn't that just the Mars Trilogy?
>>10160976
>>10160981
>>10160988
>>10160992
>>10161008
>>10161027
The question comes down to "how cold can you make your missile and have it still function". For manned ships there is a limit to this, and so you have to introduce a lot of complications to try and further lessen your signature. But for a missile, you can just cool it down. So if anyone knows how cold they can be and still function, we can work out distance a current sensitivity sensor would pick up the missile.
That said it is also quite easy to harden a colony - the large ones worth nuking are already bunkers anyway and a lot of the effects are significantly lessened by the conditions on Mars.
>tungsten rods
nukes would be more payload efficient and any cursory inspection would prove that it wasn't a meteor.
>>10161123
Well if you're at war you can predict more probably trajectories. But you can scan the entire sky in a matter of hours with current technologies.

Depends on the disposition of the govt in control. On one hand they want control, on the other they would have spent trillions getting it going and would want to see the payoff, so they may work out a deal. However it would be very easy for Earth to use assymetrical force.

>>10161528
I was the same dude. Your lucky day. And a very good answer.

>>10162628
I honestly think we should avoid violence in space. I believe it would be prudent to prepare for all possibilities.

Including the possibility of discovery by an advanced alien civilisation. One which may not take kindly to a violent species invading the stars.

It's nice to hold a big stick but not sensible to use it unless provoked by an external force.

I suspect most of these things will be negotiated peacefully or else the population will be eradicated through some disaster which can be blamed on natural events.

The population could then be replaced.

Sounding familiar?

>>10162637
Sounds like a lot of things. Give us a hint.

>>10162672
Global warming for one. If its real, and I suspect it is. I'm not saying that it's been done intentionally just that rich people will be largely unaffected and hence don't care.

Getting rid of most people leacves a lot of space for their own descendants.

>X-Files themesong

>>10162679
I guess it is only natural.

>>10161527
What is a magnitude in this context?

>>10155385
We ram Phobos up their frail martian ass, full speed against the most densely populated place.

>>10155385
>Mars: We declare our independence!
>Earth: k we'll stop sending you tons of supplies, have fun being independent
>Mars: dies
That's how that works within the foreseeable future. We already know terraforming will never work, and it's hard to say how long it will take for Martians to build enough greenhouses and factories and distributions methods to truly be self sufficient.

>>10162938

All I say to that is:
3.837 X 10^28 Joules into ANY soon to be earth de-populated area.

UwU

https://youtu.be/97xfV6yXcrk

>>10162938
I see you like watching The Expanse

>>10155385
Space nukes

>>10162965
Don't trust popsci articles anon, even the author says that its not fully accurate and that it only applies to a single method of non-diversified terraforming.

>>10160579
one motherfucker did this at the fair in town. He leaned back too far and ripped through that canvas behind him. I guess it flung him about a block away before they landed in somebody's yard.

>>10163890
Bullshit.

Insight Lander landing on Monday

https://youtu.be/z8NvcbkvxXw

>>10155385
>How hard would be for a Mars colony to declare independence from Earth?

"Planet Mars" is a light in the Firmament, so colonizing Mars is fantasy.

>>10155396
then they would all die
kek

>>10165525
https://youtu.be/ZWhjDBmlcqg

>>10155385
Why would Earth care that Mars becomes independent as long as Mars keeps trading with Earth?

I mean its another planet you could just create a union that technically makes Earth and Mars a single entity despite the fact Mars is independent.

>>10155569
>Like England saying "fuckit" letting the USA have the country.

England only did that because it was too busy fighting France and Spain in what is arguably the first true world war. If the Earth was not preoccupied with fighting a hostile alien race, Mars would stand no chance declaring independence.

>>10165965
Question is what is there to be worth fighting over though? Assuming they could actually be independent and the "war" wasn't just "lol ok we'll stop sending shipments if you're no longer citizens" until they starved, what possible reason could they have to bother going to war over? Pride?

test

>>10161123
If the nuke hasn't used thrusters, it'll have to fly to Mars using a known Hohmann transfer orbit that is certainly going to be under observation at all times due to ship traffic. If it has used its thrusters to choose an alternate, non-predictable vector, it will have been easily detected during the boost phase.

>>10167693
>It'll have to fly to Mars using a known Hohmann transfer orbit that is certainly going to be under observation at all times due to ship traffic.
Well, no. Hohmann is efficient but it's not the only way.

>>10157683
Both countries got that as a consequences of their own actions. And sadly Rus not really "embargoed".

>>10155385
It really depends on the legal status of the colony itself. Does it belong to a nation, the UN, a corporation?

All 3 could probably be resolved though legal means, and any founding charter on the colonisation of mars should have it built in.

>>10163890
cool story fag

>>10170367
t. kid thrown from a gravitron

>>10158631
you're my kind of twisted

>>10158581
Mars farms would be heavily automated.

>>10160965
Mars PROBABLY has pockets of hydrocarbons frozen underground as permafrost. Nuking those would give it a nice atmosphere suitable for plants and then the oxygen is free.

>>10161127
I'm gonna write a story that's a blatant ripoff of Red Faction but in reverse

>>10158429
>40kposting about religion
>When it's quite clear that regular humans suck and are just cannon fodder
>The setting where it's quite clear the religion of Gork n Mork have already won

>>10170977
>won
>past tense
that would imply that the wauugh can ever end, and everybody knows that orks were made for fightan and winnin

>>10155385
hard