/sci/ - Science & Math

Partially.

There is 1 gender.
women aren't people.

>>10109868
based

If you believe humans have evolved over millions and billions of years, then surely its the opposite: society is a construct of gender.

>>10109864
Most of the meaning assigned to gender comes from gender roles and associated concepts of masculinity and femininity. They are mostly social constructs that also obey some evolutionary logic. For example, in all human societies men are warriors and manual laborers because they are the stronger sex, but more specific behaviors that are seen as masculine vary a lot from culture to culture and over time.

>>10109864
The chromosomes don't lie and the only social construct here is the latest tripe being peddled by the regressive left.

They've simply redefined gender to mean something other than your biological sex.

>>10109864

No but gender roles are.

>>10109887
I can't argue against that as far as culture goes but that's not to say that males and females don't have an inherent nature.
Masculinity and femininity are natural and nature has selected specific roles over the eons.

Anything can be anything as long as the Party says so.
Scientific fact.

>>10109864
>>>/pol/
Biology is but one component of gender.
>>10109868
Your sperm is actually what determines the biological sex of your child.

gender is but sex isn't
if they looks like a man, acts like a man and speaks like a man, then they is a he, a man
if they looks like a woman, acts like a woman and speaks like a woman, then they is a she, a woman
if they has XY they is male
if they has XX they is a female
either way they is trash and should be left to die in the wild

>>10109871
/Thread.

>>10109864
Sex - no
Gender - yes
sex/gender binarism - yes

>>10109864
gender and gender expression clearly are, since are both defined by the identification we give ourselves, and the identification other give us. Most people dont get chromosome tested, and chromosomes are just one part of the large puzzle that determines how people look and act externally, and how their biology functions. As a matter of practicality, we divide people in 2 groups acording to how they are expected to function during sex, and what external sexual characteristics are expected to be. But this groups are huge, and encompass a really wide range of biological factors, and thats just talking about biology. When we try to study how this practical separation in two of the population affects society, we find even more nuance

>>10109867
this

it's the good old nature vs. nurture argument and we don't really have a specific answer

>>10109864
You see OP, 1/10,000 people are born with a hormonal disorder or messed up chromosomes, therefore biological sex is fake and we should let men cut their dicks off.

>>10109868
based and redpilled

>>10109864
Language is a social construct. So the meanings of words changes over time -- a word like "gender" that meant one thing at one time might mean another thing at another time. "Awful" used to mean "awesome," and "awesome" used to mean something at all.

But because people tend to confuse the symbol (the word) with the thing being described, different parts of society with different points of view fight over the meaning of words, believing at some gut level that if they change the symbol they've changed the reality.

Because the fight over competing points of view is so often a political fight, the more obvious examples of this are political -- but not wanting to shit up this board with /pol/ crap any more than it already is, I'll leave it to you to think of the many obvious examples.

It is now

http://www.evolutionsociety.org/news/display/2018/10/30/letter-re-scientific-understanding-of-sex-and-gender/

>>10109864
The word gender is derived from the Latin genus, meaning 'sort, kind'. her is nothing inherent in the word that says there have to be only two genders (e.g. the German language has 3 genders: masculine, feminine and neuter). The word gender as used to describe humans has until recently meant exactly the same thing as biological sex the meaning has been, roughly: doesthis individual conform to what we expect of a 'man' or 'woman' (i.e. does this person share characteristics with people born with a penis/vagina). If we later discover that a person we clasified as awoman has a penis, this causes a great deal of discomfort and cognitive disonance, we feel wehave been cheated in some way because we are used to people with penises presenting a certain way. So currently, or until recently, our social categories of 'man' and 'woman' have lined up very closely with penis havs/have nots. Note they are not the same though: we still call a eunuch a man. The point is that we DO socially construct gender, but currently we construct it to align with biological sex. The goal of the modern transgender movement is to shift the socially constructed roles of man and woman to something like sel-id.

>>10109864
The safest position to go here is that gender is simply how feminine or masculine a person is (psychologically) and all that should really be considered is their biological sex, with the added caveat that the biological sex of a person heavily influences how feminine/masculine a person is with a trivial example being hormones.

>>10109864

Yes. Gender is all of the social characteristics that your culture/society associates with your biological sex.

>>10110244
what if hormonal expression has gradients

Even asking about gender is a total subscription to some gay shit. You should ask, "Is it a man or a woman?"

>>10109864
no it isn't and anyone who says otherwise is a schizo in denial
gender is gender

Yes, it is a social construct. It is a word that was made up during a certain point in time (look up the etymology of the word). However, when this word was made up they based it off of what they knew. When this word was made up, the only 2 "genders" followed the only two sexes. So unless you're changing the definition of the word (which you could argue for, but it is a different argument), then gender is in fact only male or female.

>>10109864
people misunderstand what a social construct is
the distinction between green and blue is a social construct

>>10109876
Most of the meaning assigned to gender comes from gender roles and associated concepts of masculinity and femininity. They are mostly social constructs
>men are warriors and manual laborers because they are the stronger sex
how is being stronger a social construct?

i think your post is plainly logically inconsistent

>>10111371
That's not true at all. There is an actual distinction between green and blue. They're literally different wave lengths.

>>10109876
>Most of the meaning assigned to gender comes from gender roles and associated concepts of masculinity and femininity. They are mostly social constructs
>men are warriors and manual laborers because they are the stronger sex
how is being stronger a social construct?

i think your post is plainly logically inconsistent

The whole concept of gender is based around the concept of agreeing on terms (language) and the idea of inner feeling.


Sex is different and is perfectly objective. You are either male (XY), female (XX), or for the other .1% of the world, something different that is honestly so rare it doesn't need to be really talked about.


The problem with the whole debate now is that gender identity is based on social norms, which change, which means your gender changes depending on what time period you live in, which is a ridiculous, and useless, concept.


XX girl, normal appearance but likes sports a lot and loathes shopping. 20 years ago this was a tomboy, now you might be gender fluid.

I had some ladies tell me growing up my cowlick(hair swirl) being on the right side meant I was suppose to be a girl. Female confirmed.

>>10111401
good post, but sorry i don't believe you're a grill, grills don't post on /sci/ afaict

anyhow,
>The whole concept of gender is based around the concept of agreeing on terms (language) and the idea of inner feeling.
>The problem with the whole debate now is that gender identity is based on social norms, which change, which means your gender changes depending on what time period you live in,
i agree wholeheartedly. and therefore the trans community insisting that we should rapidly change our social norms such that everyone is required to "ask everyone what your preferred pronouns are" is ridiculous. we've had the "He/She" convention since time immemorial, without worrying about whether some ladyboy or mangina will get offended, since time immemorial. so i'm not changing my habits of calling people "him" or "her" based on my own personal biases. that's the way society has always worked, and changing it rapidly in the span of a few years is indefensible.

>>10111386
There's an actual distinction between male and female too.
Nature has assigned a role to each sex.
Politics is a social construct, everything is a social construct, that doesn't make a man into a woman

>>10111480
I didn't say there wasn't? What kind of strawman are you trying to set up idiot?

>>10111387
Sex and gender are not the same thing. Gender roles tend to follow sexual dimorphism but are ultimately decided by culture, sex is purely biological.

If you're a man that thinks he's a woman you're mentally I'll.

>>10111622
Ill.
Auto correct

>>10111127
It rarely is expressed in such a range that it would justify misclassifying a biological male as female, well over 3/4, probably closer to 9/10 or more of males present as male and have significantly more testosterone and other androgens than any woman.

gender is just a word

all words are social constructs, including the word gender. A word can mean anything you want it to mean if the group agrees on a definition. But most importantly, definitions can change and evolve over time.

What we're seeing now is not an argument of whether "is gender a social construct?" It's actually resistance to the perceived idea that a word may be changing meaning. Here's the problem with that. Even if the "word Nazis" succeed in preventing the definition of a single word from changing/evolving over time, they can just invent a new word. They're fighting a useless battle. At best they'll just slow things down till they themselves become acclimated to the new change.

Also, no single person has ownership over language. As a social construct it's not something that can be controlled or owned by the individual. It can only be owned/changed by a social group.

>>10111480
>Nature has assigned a role to each sex.
NO, nature made some human beings have some configuration of molecules, wether you choose to call it male or female is entirely up to your biased cultural view. The true reality is that there is no true set definition of male and female that really aplicable and exhaustive, it is a construct

>>10111647
Fuck off troll.

>>10111646
that is missing the point entirely. The argument is never about the dictionary definition of gender, its whether your gender is decided by biology or by how you're raised. IE do people think they are male or female based on chemicals & DNA or do they think it because they get raised to act a certain way

>>10111665
>The argument is never about the dictionary definition of gender,
on the contrary, when you boil it all down I believe it is

the word gender is a representation of an idea. The debate here is do we recognize the idea, being represented by the word gender, as being ones sexual identity (ie, your ego) or does the idea behind the word represent what your packing between your legs?

I'd say it's ego. Ego is something that's in the brain. The differences between the male and female brain are very small. Physically their imperceptible. Honestly I'm not sure if we've discovered any physical differences in the brains.

>>10109864
>left is a women
>right is a bitch for cock
Yes it is beyond a social construct if it is so embedded with sex that I instantly think that.

>>10111386
Wave lengths are a social construct.
Math is a social construct.
>implying anyone knows the thing in itself.

>>10111480
I think the issue is differentiating prima facie observations with purely social constructs.
Gender is not even observable. Sex is.
Though some would say the notion of gender is intrinsically linked with the sex and cannot be properly differentiated regardless.

>>10111401
The bigger issue is the denial of sex and it's impact on how people conceive a person's gender.
You can dress and act any way you want, but at the end of the day if I here about your chromosomes I will INSTINCTIVELY consider your gender based upon that observation. If you are XX but dress like a boy, I will instinctively think about your femininity. Likewise with a male dressed as a girl.

So to differentiate gender from sex is to deny the reality that people don't associate a gender with the person's sex. We do, instinctively.

>>10109864
Sex of a person is real and measurable, biological capabilities are also real.

Social role is a social construct and on modern society is separate from sex.

Gender was before a synonym to sex, then those uneducated lefty ideologists started using it as a synonym to social role but all the conclusions they made were applied to sex.

So no, gender ideologists are retarded, and sex of a person is not a social construct.

questions such as these are like asking, are the theories in economics actually able to do anything... yea partially, but who the F knows, millions of years of evolution created the complicated clusterfuck we all inhabit (consciousness and society) -- so have fun wasting your time with this spaghetti parade

>>10109864
well it is now

>>10110380
>Variation in biological sex and in gendered expression has been well documented in many species, including humans, through hundreds of scientific articles.
such as?

>>10109878
Why the fuck do we use the word gender then?

You're just going to ignore all the myriad of evidence contrary to the easy lie you tell yourself.

Gender is what we call ourselves. Boy babies used to be dressed in pink in 1900's America b/c it was seen as the "more aggressive" color.

Now what? The roles swapped because like a lot of gender shit, it's all bullshit arbitrary culture nonsense.

But I'm the regressive.

>>10109932
>they is

>>10112702
Dressing a male baby in pink doesn't make it a female or a 'gender fluid' or a 'non binary attack helicopter' you regressive moron.
A baby boy is a baby boy.

>>10112702
>Why the fuck do we use the word gender then?
We used to use the word to describe a persons sex.
Now we use it to describe a spectrum of mental illness and sexual deviance

>>10109864
well yes because you can be indoctrinated into believing you can be something you are not, and indoctrination is done by humans and not nature

>>10113327
You're begging just the question.
>indoctrinated into believing you can be something you are not

You have to justify your statements.

>>10111387
>Most of the meaning assigned to gender comes from gender roles and associated concepts of masculinity and femininity. They are mostly social constructs...
> ...that also obey some evolutionary logic.
> men are warriors and manual laborers because they are the stronger sex
Why even waste the time do this anon. Are you that bored?

>>10109867
/thread

>>10109864
It's a social construct rooted in evolutionary biology. Like language or hyerarchical structures.

We know that language is driven by common usage, despite the efforts of your English teacher, but when did "language high-jacking" become a political thing? There has always been coining and inkhorning, borrowing one word for another. But I feel in my lifetime it has been marriage and now gender. Where if we just made some new words, everybody?should? Be happy.

>>10113630
>But I feel in my lifetime it has been marriage and now gender. Where if we just made some new words, everybody?should? Be happy.
What does marriage definitions have to do with anything? Are you saying the meaning got changed to include gays? Are you saying ten years ago if a kid asked a gay couple why they weren't married "marriage means man with woman" is a better answer than "the law"?

Gender is a CONTINUUM

>>10109876
>, in all human societies men are warriors and manual laborers because they are the stronger sex, but

thread

Testosterone makes you manly.
Oestrogen makes you a whiny emotional bitch.
These hormones are natural, until you start injecting them where they don't belong and using things like puberty blockers on children.

>>10113641
I'm saying what the dictionary said. I did not write it. To clarify (especially) if you look up "husband" or "wife." It has to do with something because language has been discussed in this thread and we are talking about what it symbolizes. I ain't hating on no gays. I stand for human treatment of all. I do not think it necessary to offend one to elevate another. Do you not also see some of this as peculiar?

>>10113675
What I mean is that the role of men being tough and manly and women being subservient to men is 100% natural. It's a construct of natural selection.
No amount of whinning from feminists or left wing politics is going to break that.
Men and women are supposed to compliment each others roles as they do naturally, not be at war with each other in some destructive oppressed/oppresser marxist bullshit

>>10109868
redpilled af

>>10109868
baste

>>10109868
kek

>>10109868
B&R

>>10109868
bayste and wedpiwwed

>>10109864
no gender is a nature construct. we have X and Y chromosomes. there ya go. The other 28+ imaginary genders are social constructs

society is a construct of gender

>>10109868
Motherfucker who breed with non people or is completely gay.

>>10109864
Having penis quite not get alongs with fact you call yourself girl.

Do some normal work and don't be a pussy if you have dick. it's that simple.

Also even math is social construct, even money, but it's quite u

How come chicks get in the car while the gas is pumping? Is this something society implemented?
Explain girls. Why won't you let me watch? Ain't gonna hurt nobody.

>>10109864
As I understand it, gender and sex are two different things. There are only two sexes (male and female). Our ideas on masculinity and femininity derive from our sex (i.e. our sex determines certain behaviours). These ideas and behaviours can be reinforced by a healthy society/cultural environment.

>>10109864
no. gender/sex is wordplay. It's not science.

>>10109864
I just call people what they want because I have more important things to worry about. One of the best computer scientists in my department is trans. It doesn't really matter...

>XXY
>retarded

>XYY
>retarded

>XX
>retarded

>XY
>not retarded

chromosome doubling is /literally/ retarded. Female isn't a gender, it's a mental disability.

>>10113684
>Do you not also see some of this as peculiar?
What do you mean peculiar? That the dictionary definition failed to convey commonly held and excepted ideations of a concept?
One of the most frustrating thing about science is terminology is constantly being fought over. "The dictionary definition" is often unsuitable to apply to the phenomenon of investigation (e.g. information as "what is conveyed or represented by a particular arrangement or sequence of things" vs the "reduction of uncertainty" definition- which is more useful in some context but then begs the question "uncertain of what" when dealing with things like communication.

I personally think the giving gender 1000 options is stupid and impractical, but if it's being done to setup a social-science framework with which to work, it has purpose, and in that purpose shouldn't be constrained to what webster defines

>>10109864
When you say "gender", what specifically do you mean? My experience with this argument is that divergence of opinions generally occurs because we talk about different things.

I don’t care about gender and just call people what they want to be called. Grow up.

>>10114761
Good for you.
Most people do play along with the charade.
That doesn't mean people aren't either male or female at a genetic level.

If they have the peepee they a XY
If they have the veevee they a XX
If they have both they a genetic defect

>>10109868
rased and bedpilled

>>10114283
>What do you mean peculiar? That the dictionary definition failed to convey commonly held and excepted ideations of a concept?
It doesn't seem to me that the dictionary failed to represent commonly held concepts. And it was quicker to conform to new concepts than most people were. I live around SF and associate with all kinds of people. I have complete acceptance of alternative feelings. I agree that "words" are often a stumbling block for math and science. We can create new words anytime. And I think that the failure to do so in these cases was intended as a political weapon to offend and divide people , using "rights" as ammunition on each side of an imaginary line. I am 43 years old and this seems like a recent phenomenon. I'm curious and welcoming to examples that prove me wrong. It is not my intention ruffle feathers. This subject is hardly science, but another example of science needing to make adjustments to conform to society. In this case. In this case it was forced by politics. I am more than willing to be wrong.