/sci/ - Science & Math

Congrats you cracked the code

>>10031286
Because it is what allows for technological expansion which in turns builds socialization, duh?
Also, if you go into the private sector and are very good at your job, there is a shitload of money in it.

>>10031422
>*socialization -> civilization

>>10031286 >>10031413
>Why is STEM called important when there's no jobs in it?
Computer Science has Jobs

When people say "STEM" what they really mean is "computer science".
When people say "we need more people in STEM" what they really mean is one of two options:
A.) Someone noticed the job market is shit, jobs that used to be good are gone, jobs that used to decent are absolute hell and don't even pay the bills. Instead of trying to solve the problem, talking about "the skill gap" absolves policymakers of all real responsibility.
B.) Someone noticed that software engineers have jobs that are somehow not shit. Because paying people a good wage is costly, it's actually cheaper in the long run to fund various "code camps" that pump out code monkeys. Hopefully, this will depress demand, and the one sector that doesn't treat its workers as disposable piles of flesh will finally have those desperate 11$/hour wageslaves the rest of the economy enjoys from.

they just want to lower wages

>>10031422
Socialising is not civilization.
>>10031424

Socialising is shut and that's why I don't have a job.

>>10031450
It was a typo, you spastic.
Hence the:
> -> = change this to...
Clearly you aren't very good at symbol logic. Nice low IQ.

>>10031431
No because pajeets are hired to fill those jobs. All they need is a 30 year old boomer with 10 years of experience to fix their code and they'll hire him not computer sci graduates

>>10031431
This actually makes me sad.
Our economy is so fucked.

>>10031452
More people in stem won't give the people in stem a job because they don't teach us how to create jobs.

Stem is useless as much as any other human activity. I study it because it's fun.

>>10031458
Go private sector then?

>>10031461
>Stem is useless as much as any other human activity.
>He says whilst using a computer.
Contrarian Redditard fedorafags really are the bane of existence, eh?

>>10031462
Isn't that where everyone applies already?

>>10031470
Fine, go research and do it for the glory.

>>10031464
There is no usefulness in communicating with you fags

>>10031431
why doesnt it break down between bachelors, masters and phd?

Because STEMfags have to justify their existance by pulling everyone else down to their level

Industry is dead in the US. It is all service jobs. Move to Germany if you want industry.

>>10032628
>move to Germany
not interested in converting to Islam.

>>10032628
But I already live near there. No jobs dude.

>no jobs in it
Are there even any jobs any where?

>>10031286
Space race culture that didn't die out. But you usually don't go wrong with an organized staff so it's kept on life support.

>>10032705
I just checked Germany's demographics and it said 3.4% are Turkish .8% are Syrian and other Middle eastern is 1.3%. That's like 5% of the population. Why do you exaggerate like half the population is now Muslim?

You unironically have to become a job creator rather than an employee if you wanna make big bucks today

>>10031431
>>10031456
Clean my boots wagie, if you give 'em a nice like I might consider renewing your temp contract.

>>10032841
and where are you gonna afford the capital to make your own business? You meant freelancing which is extremely nerve-racking to try and raise a family with.

>>10031286
where do you get these cute girls god damn

>>10031431
This looks like the case, but they forget that all the other graduates are taking the CS jobs as well. Not to talk of all the people that don't even have a degree - also ignoring the mass of the jobs that are basic web development shit.

Fun meme still

>>10032841
How do I create jobs?

>>10032705
>>10032837
PIc related

i'm being 100% serious when i say i have no fucking clue why anyone says there are no jobs in STEM
do you just not do internships or something? have you met absolutely no one in the industry? are you even looking?

When they say STEM they really mean just mean TE

>>10032934
start a business and grow it till you need to hire some people.

>>10031431
The fucks a "Life Science"?

>>10031286
kinda reminds me of how trades are like similarly.

>>10032846
Abuse of laws and tax laws on top of making the most out of politicians giving out free money to "fix" unemployment.

>>10031431
This chart is skewed and biased beyond belief. Go look at the data yourself on Bureau of Labor Statistics. Just summing "Biochemists", "Biological Scientists", and "Biological Technicians", BLS projects 16k job openings per year between 2016 and 2026. That's already four thousand more than what this chart shows and that's not accounting for many other life science occupations.

Engineering is way out of proportion too. Just counting the Civil, Industrial, and Mechanical engineering categories by the BLS, there are 67k job openings projected every year. This is not to mention all the technician level jobs, and managerial positions.

I don't get how journalists can arrive at such wild numbers, but they must have been trying pretty hard

>>10031286
It's been identified as one of the most necessary things needed for national defense.

https://www.acq.osd.mil/chieftechnologist/publications/docs/stem_stratplan_2013.pdf

I'd be more hard pressed to find work NOT related to supporting STEM than not. Most jobs are to support STEM objectives. The largest budget in the world (USA DoD budget) is to advance the STEM capabilities of the USA.

>>10034025
Well their 5 year plan just ended, now what?

>>10034027
Current plan
https://www.acq.osd.mil/rd/publications/docs/DoD_STEM_Strategic_Plan_2015_1022_final.pdf

>>10034027
Also, the next two budgets planned for the DoD are it's largest ever. The USA is serious into STEM. Look at DARPA projects alone... nothing but STEM
Https://www.darpa.mil

>>10034037
The USA pretends to be into stem. There's actually no jobs

>>10034498
Bruh, there's tons of jobs in STEM. More than any other nation.

is there any jobs in anything?

>>10031431
>Computer Science has Jobs
>graph shows computer science jobs are completely saturated
nice try

They push STEM jobs because the US is not the leader in qualified STEM candidates, other countries have better offerings in that sector. So the US is trying to regain it's spot as the leader of innovation. However, the US economy is moving toward a service/sales economy... they really should be teaching every child in school how to sell things, because before long, when there are no factor jobs, your choices will be administrative, service, or sales. Period. I'm in sales... It's not for the lazy or the faint of heart.

Oh, and I forgot... they push jobs that are high paying to force wages down. Obviously.

This meme started because programmers and engineers used to be scarce and thus expensive to employ.
Since about 5 years the market's been flooded with STEM people, so companies have an easier pick.

>>10033403
>internships
Didn't realise they were so important when I was in uni, and it's too late now. I have a portfolio of personal projects though. Doesn't help.
>meet industry insiders
Nigh impossible if you don't already have an industry job and don't already live in the biggest tech centres.
>are you even looking
Applied to hundreds of jobs over the past year. Only got two interviews. Feedback was that I'm competent and interview well but nervous and too honest. Zero job offers.

All in all, I hope someone hunts you down and beats you to death, you ignorant little shit. The job market is NOWHERE FUCKING NEAR as good as you claim in tech.

>>10036065
Yes

It's just everything is really competitive. You are better off moving to where nobody wants to live or taking a job not many people want.

>>10036275
The job market in entry everything is saturated, you just can't get in because you fell behind by not interncucking and networking when you could. If the chips had fallen the other way you'd be waxing lyrical right now. First job's the hard one

>>10036568
Yeah how do I get my first job?

>>10031286
u kidding

>>10036569
I got my first job by hitting the concrete, asking for the manager, staring him in the eyes and giving him a firm handshake.
Only things that got me out of eternal neethood were good cover letters, and sociopathic overconfidence.

>>10036574
Probably doesn't work in tech

>>10036275
Apply for jobs in California. That's where they are. Be willing to move if you get one.

>>10036578
>have experience
>have connections
>have research
>have projects
>have vagina
pick one or you're fucked

>>10036585
I have my degree

>>10036571
No

>>10032628
Going from US to EU is nearly impossible without years of experience or strong connections.

>>10031286
STEM get me a job

>>10031286

Good STEM people create jobs.

>>10033910
Biology et al

>>10038437
How do I create jobs?

take ultra hard classes or die in the streets
that's the rule

>>10038328
No

>>10031453
boomers aren't 30 years old

>>10031439
This is what I'm also afraid of. Software dev is going to have terrible rates in 5 years.

>>10040696
But it's only getting more important due to the AI singularity

>>10036124
Graph shows there are a little bit more jobs than there are CS graduates actually, very different than saturate job market. Half of those graduates are below average, all you have to do to get a job is be above average, which is easy.

>>10031286
STEM wages need to go down so that development can become less expensive and therefore, more intensive.

>>10040806
The solution would be to increase funding for development.

When you pay capable humans crap wages they just move on to other careers and get replaced by crap humans.

So you end up paying more for the worse results.

>>10036214
>because programmers and engineers used to be scarce and thus expensive to employ.
They were never expensive compared to most other professionals.

>>10040831
This.


>>10040806
If STEM wages went down, nobody who is capable of getting an engineering degree would get an engineering degree. The only people going into STEM would be people planning on becoming lecturers

>>10031431
Friendly reminder that everything that has to do with a coding is classified as a CS job. For example, web development and UX designer.

>>10040838
I'm not the person you're replying to, but that's a pretty ridiculous statement engineers in general were, are and will continue to be one of the most well paid people. Because you need them if you want to do things. And by things I mean design any arbitrary device you can think of, Maintain and design roads and power lines and everything in between. You only need to look up the statistics of pay.

Unless "most other professionals" consists solely of people in the medical Fields.

>>10041091
How about biotechnological engineers?

>>10041091
>that's a pretty ridiculous statement engineers in general were, are and will continue to be one of the most well paid people.
Why is this ridiculous when it's a relatively difficult degree that produces extreme value to companies with billions of dollars in revenue? It is the profession that pays for itself the most, more so than any other professional including medical doctors (hospitals run a tight budget for example).

>Because you need them if you want to do things. And by things I mean design any arbitrary device you can think of,
Yes, you need them and almost no one wants to bother to study so much engineering art, science and math only to end up doing very boring things. So logically you'd have to pay them a lot.

>Maintain and design roads and power lines and everything in between.
You are COMPLETELY misinformed. TECHNOLOGISTS are responsible for the maintenance and design of these basic infrastructures. They apply the basic technologies that have already been developed using established methods developed by engineers long ago. Engineering technology is a diploma and they are extremely cheap to employ. I wonder if this whole STEM visa flood wasn't due to people like you being in office that have a general misconception of what engineers do. Engineers aren't employed in those (they beg for those jobs, but don't have the practical background).

>You only need to look up the statistics of pay.
I did.

>Unless "most other professionals" consists solely of people in the medical Fields.
A "professional", by definition, refers to a regulated profession, that includes medical doctors (but doctors are underpaid in general, earning less high school teachers over their life times), nurses (some of which are paid more than engineers despite having only a 2-3 year diploma and some specialization), lawyers and so forth. It does not refer to general white collar clerks with business and finance degrees etc. who are of little to no worth to a company anyway.

>>10041487


>>10041487
>You are COMPLETELY misinformed. TECHNOLOGISTS are responsible for the maintenance and design of these basic infrastructures.

No, yes and no, engineers still work on designing different kinds of roads, intersections and mathematical road optimisations, although the bulk of the work in implementing simple roads is 'designed' by technologists. Power lines are in a similar situation, for example I doubt a technologist would really be taught how to do the calculations for parallel capacitor power factor correction, but maybe I'm wrong.

Also I really don't get the point you're arguing, you seem to be arguing that engineers should get paid lots, but aren't. I'm arguing that they should, and they are. If you're an engineer you only have to be good at what you do to be paid lots. I knew an engineer who earned over 200 000 annually.

>>10041361
Never heard of it

>>10033910
Biology has now so many (interdisciplinary, most chemistry or medicine related) spin-offs a new word was needed.