/sci/ - Science & Math

Place your bets for who it will be!
I'm 99% sure the japstronaut is Yusaku Maezawa.

even with the most generous deadlines this is still 5 years away, whats the point of doing this now?
do they just want to keep the hype up or what?

>>10007979
It's never been SpaceX's style to keep the public in the dark about what it's doing for extended periods. That's more of a Blue Orange thing.

Also, their list of "known cool upcoming stuff" is emptying out pretty quickly with F9 Block 5 in regular use, Falcon Heavy having launched, and Crew Dragon seeing its first test launch within the next couple of months. That really only leaves BFR, so a natural addition to that list is something involving BFR.

>>10008007
still think its stupid to anounce some random rich guy who could die in the next 5 years or get connected to some shady shit and fuck up the already daily attacked image of spaceX&BFR.

>>10008018
Fair point, but this announcement also helps to prove SpaceX's commitment to BFR with a tangible mission. New Glenn, which is at a similar stage of development, had customers announced soon after the rocket was revealed, giving it some credibility.

>>10008018
It's risky, but not without reason. The entire purpose is to make it known that the age of space being solely the domain of stodgy, slow, directionless governments is coming to an end soon. If they're lucky it'll help add some momentum to the private space scene, encouraging entrepreneurs to build missions for BFR to launch and increasing the number of VCs throwing cash at space startups.

Basically everything SpaceX is doing right now is done with the intention of pushing space industry towards the critical mass to tip the first domino and carry itself forward.

>>10008026
yep. Elon has said for a long time that SpaceX will be the 1860s railroad for space - the transportation infrastructure that allows for new expansion. Other groups will have to build the hardware to use when you're in space.

Satoshi Nakomoto will finally reveal himself, and prove it by signing transactions to send his premined Bitcoins to Elon.

hopefully they show off more hardware, and an update on raptor specs

>>10008045
They have for the last two announcements, and now it's more important than ever that they show hardware.

People mistake "hype"

Hype drives investment. It's EXTREMELY important in practical ways to hype up people to space. It's not self-serving either since spaceX is private.

>>10008026
Once they get their first multi stage launch I think things are really gonna heat up in regards to space exploration. Other countries and corporations are gonna need to keep up to maintain relevance.

>>10007928
You're not 99% sure. You're ~49% sure. The other 51% is something that you don't even know about.

>>10008200
>multi stage launch
hmm?

>>10008279
Meaning full BFR Stack, maybe?

Armchair Space Systems Engineers.

I'd imagine that there are other people waiting in line for trips to the moon, but this individual is the first one to agree to make it a big public event.

new tweet https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1041482806600204294

>Find out who’s flying and why
Teasing the "why" seems odd if it's a simple case of space tourism.

>>10008375
well, the why could also be to verify life support systems and environmentals in crew BFR, and to test BFR EDL. But I doubt that this particular flight will the the first for anything for BFR; they’ll have done test fights before the real deal

new pic!

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1041553238477008896

tried to bring out some detail

>>10008553
>>10008544
>>10008543
Kino, looks like the heatshield is going to be tiles though, yikes, that is going to need some serious engineering.

>>10008553
Where did you get these?

>>10008590
Elon's twitter

>>10008584
that's the composite structure... structure, probably. It's all carbon fiber-ish, with PICA-X plastered all over I'd imagine. SpaceX knows their shit with PICA-X: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMLDAgDNOhk

>>10008553
imagine being 1 of 100 people on a trip around the moon on this thing. The future is awesome.

>>10008685
might be a tad crowded. people are speculating that the initial crew BFRs will have room for only a handful; 100 is the maximum hypothetical.

>>10008692
For a moon orbit mission that is pure tourism wouldn't it have a boatload of extra room?

>>10008698
100 people scrambling around the windows and sharing one zero-g bathroom doesn't sound like a fun time, even if you get a bulk discount. I'd imagine if they just run a continuous dutch auction with BFR tickets they'll be cadence limited for quite a long time.

>>10008702
What price does a human experience beat payload?

$1 million each?

plus the press from 100 people on a rocket ship gonna be huge, think if it blows up. The media will be all over it.

>>10008703
man if you had moon flyby tickets at a mil a pop the line would be ridiculously long.
Maezawa probably had to put down at least 9 digits of dosh.

>>10008705
During the first demonstration of airplanes to the US military, two pilots died in a crash.
The military still purchased 10 of them on the spot.
Just food for thought...

>>10008707
Yeah but I mean breakeven, what's the BFR expected launch cost?

They say 90 million a launch but that's probably impossible.

So $2 million each? 100 person moon flyby

>>10008708
That experience is limited to people in control and needs of the time. We are more risk averse than ever and public is an outrage machine.

>>10008709
End goal is 7 mil per launch marginal cost, according to the IAC 2017 presentation. We might get updated numbers tomorrow though.

>>10008711
that would be some magnitude of space breakthrough we can't comprehend

>>10008713
every single university and technical institution would be clobbering together probes and rovers to throw at every corner of the solar system if prices got that low

>>10008601
PicaX is ablative. They've been hiring experts for Reinforced Carbon-Carbon in pursuit of a reusable thermal protection system.

>>10008717
How much do you think developing and building a probe costs, and how much compared to that is the launch cost?

>>10008724
>How much do you think developing and building a probe costs, and how much compared to that is the launch cost?
Isn't this the reason tourism will be key? That or inventing new uses for space aka mining/starlink

>>10008723
nice rocket you've got there

would be a shame if some foam hit it

>>10008730
it’s not applied in tiles like with shuttle. So plasma can’t seem in between the sections...

>>10008734
*seep

Everyone in the industry is saying this is impossible should why would you trust a conman instead of the experts
It's not happening this will destroy nasa you have to stop it

>>10008744
>t. Rep Mo Brooks (R-AL)

>>10007979
5 years away for such projects is pretty much FTL speed. Some hope there is another digit after the first and many believe that is how things are supposed to work because "that's how it always was".

>>10008750
Yep.
If you look at Apollo, it was about 5 years from inception to 8 with the first moon flyby

>>10008584
>>10008601
Tiles. They were hiring ceramics experts and those with shuttle tile experience.
Not saying they will be shuttle tiles because they wont be (ancient, fragile, hygroscopic, geo velocity max reentry), but they will have some distant relation.

>>10008734
Soibois again shwoing why they are the most annoying fanclub in the internet, their complete lack of any scientific or technological knowledge. Of course it is applied in tiles, you can even see it in the motherfucking CGIs that its tiles.

>>10008086
All this shows to me is that SpaceX is lacking funds. If they had the funding secured there would be no reason to drive up hype. BO doesn't give a fuck about hype, because Daddy Jeff has all the funds they need.

I said it once and I say it again: Space communities should be more thankful for Bezos than for Musk. I mean, we should be thankful for both, but the by far the richest man will actually make it happen most definetely, while Musk might run out of money midway-through.

>>10008761
jeff who

>>10008761
What if Amazon stock crashes? Have you seen the insanely high P/E multiple it trades at? It is quite likely to decline significantly from present levels.

>>10008763
Jeff Bezos

Tiles are always going to be a fucking disaster, imagine having to reliably inspect and certify 100% of the bajillions of tiles on the BFR. It really needs to be some kind of monolithic coating, this is one of the main reasons the shuttle was a pile of garbage.

>>10008766
Amazon will overtake Apple as the most valueable company soon, employ close to 1 million people, and have the second highest revenue in the world after Wal Mart. Amazon, at this point, is already too big to fail.

>>10008761
>BO
You mean that company with a mere suborbital elevator for entertainment purposes? Not even worth mentioning.

>>10008775
The Orbiter had hyper-expensive reusable tiles, that were not that reusable as it turns out, since they broke and whatnot.

BFS is going to have ablative tiles. So if you know you will replace ALL of them everytime you could come up with a quick and efficient way to do it. Sure, it will be a fixed cost in the millions for every launch, but at least its not a fixed costs in the hundreds of millions.

>>10008776
I'm not saying it will go bankrupt; just that the stock is overvalued, meaning Bezos will have less equity value to cash in to fund Blue Origin ops.

Amazon stock is very overvalued relative to almost every other company in the S&P500

>>10008777
Yes, I mean the company that didn't go for the satellite market because they don't need the cash and went straight to develop a next-gen rocket. I also mean the company whose survival doesn't depend on reddit-hype, because they have all the funds secured.

>>10008782
You should look at the growth rates of Amazon and say that again. They are growing by like 20% every year. At this pace, they will actually overtake Wal Mart in just 10 years.

>>10008781
I suppose this ablation doesn't happen during earth-to-earth transit? It will never compete with airlines cost-wise if it does.

>>10008781
I agree it may not necessarily be a massive cost factor for each launch, but it will fuck rapid reusability because I can hardly imagine it taking less than several weeks to replace all those tiles.

>>10008784
>didn't go for the satellite market because they don't need the cash
Hahahhaha what a fucking joke. They don't have the tech to do this and you know it.

>>10008787
I guess it would depend on how big the parabolic arc is and how much speed is killed via retropropulsion rather than aerobraking.

>>10008775
Ironically many improvements could be added to the tiles and other elements of the shuttle, but such redesigns were consistently rejected so workforces and existing contractors can remain employed. Budgets came in as an excuse. If the shuttle was iterating rather than being frozen 60's/70's design it probably wouldn't have been such a failure.

>>10008790
Well, they did already develop the BE-3 in-house, and they did already demonstrate soft-landings with the New Shepard. So which part do you think is so hard that they couldn't do it?

In reality, they just are using all their ressources to directly develop a next-gen rocket instead of developing a current-gen rocket to generate cash first, like SpaceX did.

>>10008794
Sure it could be improved, but the bottom line is a nigtrillion ablative components is a shitty design. I just don't see how it can ever be a viable aerobraking solution, not that aerobraking can't be done, simply that a better design or more advanced material science is required.

>>10008799
New shepherd is a current gen rocket, wtf are you on about?

>>10008801
I think he means New Glenn which is still current gen because it's just catches up to Falcon 9 tech.

>>10008800
Inflatable, one-time-use heat shields. Something similar to pic related. When re-entry starts, the heat shield inflates on the BFS's nose. Once most of the velocity is bled off, the BFS turns on its ass, detaches the heat shield, and lands like a Falcon 9. On the ground, all you need to do is put the inflatable heat shield back on and that's it.

>>10008801
New Shepards is basically the New Glenn second stage you brainlet.

>>10008804
BE-4 is a next-gen engine, New Glenn is a next-gen rocket.

>>10008808
>New Glenn is a next gen rocket

By what metric?

>>10008787
>earth-to-earth transit
That's just the usual Musk nonsense.

>>10008809
Methane rocket.

Actually, it is more like this:

1st gen rockets: Kerosene rockets
2nd gen rockets: Hydrogen rockets
3rd gen rockets: Methane rockets.

So actually, Falcon 9 is last gen. I beg pardon, I was wrong about that.

>>10008807
Turning around mid re entry is probably asking for trouble, probably better to have it deploy on the ass, but yeah still a much better idea than stupid tiles.

>>10008813
Shotwell confirmed it.

>>10008814
It still has a paltry payload and will cost much the same as a F9.

>>10008813
>>10008816
And the DoD is interested...

>>10008822
God I hope the military industrial complex throws money at SpaceX

>>10008816
>>10008822

>DoD
the DoD is one thing. Commercial viability is another.

>>10008816
It's not happening though. Governments aren't going to accept "civil" rockets flying through their air space.

Also, while you could land it almost anywhere, you actually need a launch-pad to re-launch the rocket. So you need to transport the rocket from the landing pad to the nearest launch pad, which in itself is going to be an insanely expensive endeavour.

>>10008825
Cost is the critical factor then acceptability of the transportation method. DoD will play a part in the latter.
An interesting thing to note is that likely the EELV program gets a name change to throw away the "expendable".

>>10008826
What if it flies above their airspace?

>>10008826
>Governments aren't going to accept "civil" rockets flying through their air space.
Lol, that's just matter of agreement. As long as they are monitoring it they have nothing to worry about. Once BFR proves viable I bet China will be first one to open a spaceport for it.

The beauty of it all is that you only enter the airspace of origin and destination country.

>>10008826
Don't forget that there would be a limited amount of launch sites. It would be ones thing to have them fly over, it's another to actually launch them over land.

>>10008836
>Ohhh yesh you fry rocket to grorious China?
>Here spaceport, you start fry tomorrow

>>10008826
Also it won't excursively need booster for earth to earth travel since achieving orbital velocity wouldn't be a requirement.
Landing the ship on a pad and refueling it would be enough for return trip or at least a hop to a forward base.
And that's without digging in too much into SSTO capabilities by mass optimizations and engine configuration.

>>10008840
>inb4 president pocahontas signs it under the friendship love and cooperation act

Anyways, it will never happen, because of two reasons

* You actually dont save that much time. While the pure flight time is much less, pure flight time is only one part of the journey. Usually, transfering to and from the airport, security at the airport, etc. all takes longer than the flight itself. So at the end of the day, you are not saving that much.

* There will be no infrastructure in place. You would need to build launch pads around the globe, each costing as much as major international airports.

So even if you leave all the other things unconsidered (like the fact that rockets will never be that reusable), these two economic bottlenecks won't go away. If a city will choose between building a launch pad and a major international airport, it will choose the airport. And most passengers will not think saving some hours on the flight will make the much higher price worth it (and before you ask: Just the fuel of a launch will always make it much more expensive than a comparable intercontinental flight).

>>10008852
One of the worst and longest parts of flying is airport security, can you imagine fucking spaceport security?

>>10008852
>transfering to and from the airport, security at the airport, etc. all takes longer than the flight itself
Flight from LA to Shanghai is 14 fucking hours. Check-in and security takes 1h tops.

>>10008861
>1h security at an American international airport

Have you ever flown?

>>10008861
Yes but rockets are dangerous and it doesn't take much dedication to turn one into ICBM that will start ww3.

And what if someone just decides to pack it with bombs for surprise decapitation attack on another country?

Passengers would never agree to fly on something so dangerous and uncomfortable when they have the choice of well proven jets.

Not happening.

>>10008861
Even if you cut down the time to like what, 2 hours of flight or less, I imagine the market would be limited because there is no way it would be as cheap as normal ticket.

And because the market is limited, all the infrastructure would just sit there idling, further costing money, further increasing the ticket price.

>>10008866
>And what if someone just decides to pack it with bombs for surprise decapitation attack on another country?
You could do the same with an airplane and nobody gives a fuck? As long as the rocket is expected and monitored it's the same as with airplanes.

>Passengers would never agree to fly on something so dangerous and uncomfortable
There will lots of people who will be excited to fly on this thing and they will trust NAA certification process.

The earth-to-earth bullshit is such bullshit, and they didn't even bother to research it properly.
SpaceX claims that the BFS has a pressurized cabin greater than the A380, although in reality is much smaller than that. These idiots weren't even able to correctly google how big the pressurized cabin of the A380 is. Then there is this second fact that the BFR burns through 500.000$ of fuel everytime. For a rocket launch, that cost factor is negligible, so it doesnt get talked about much. But if you want to compete with airplanes, this means that you are already not competetive anymore. Let's be very generous and say they can fit 200 people into the BFS. This means a one-way trip you would need to charge 2500$ to cover fuel costs alone.

>>10008880
lol

>$2500 for a 1 hour trip aboard a rocket ship

I think it was just for memes/headlines but the biggest problem is just countries okay with rockets landing outside their cities.

I know right now we all see a trip to the Moon as the hottest shit ever, but once Elon makes it more common, do you think that'll make it less appealing in some way?

>>10008880
>2500 dollars

Mate it could cost 20x that price and the tickets would be booked out for the next two decades.

>>10008880
>2500$
Lol that's way less than a first class ticket.

>>10008880
Also there's no reason why the cost of liquid Metalox won't go down considering that you just need water, carbon source and solar panels to produce it.

>>10008836
Yeah man, countries will absoluetely love giant missiles heading towards their economic and political centres.

>>10008891
Oh man, the good old scientific illiterate soiboi strikes again. Methane is natural gas, so how much it costs depends on what the price for gas is atm, you brainlet.

>>10008893

>>10008894
0/10

>>10008884
You are severely overestimating space enthusiasm. New Shepard and Virgin Galactic both are having trouble finding enough space tourists. There are not that many people who want to sit on top of a big missile.

>>10008895
Exactly, now imagine they would have captured big missiles going orbital speeds instead of sub-sonic airplanes on that day.

>>10008900
>80IQ achmed can somehow gain control of a fully autonomous machine

>>10008901
That's even worse, autopilot might fuck up and destroy whole cities.

>>10008883
Opposite. Assuming we are talking luxury, there are a lot of billionaires and very rich people who will have to do it to keep up with the cocktail talk.

If they have a really good safety record it becomes a mandatory experience for anyone who can reasonably afford it. Right now it's only a few really rich people who care about space.

>>10008902
Lol ok bud

>>10008904
You have no motherfucking clue what you are talking about lel

Who the fuck is gunna pay a shitload to have the most horrible uncomfortable journey just because it gets them across the world in a much shorter time?
Are the conversations of the future going to be:
>How was your flight?
>Oh I went on the BFR again
>And did you..?
>Pass out from the G forces? Oh yeah it happened again. When I woke up we were weightless and somebody a few seats ahead of me vomited as well, it floated around everyone's heads for a while as the stewards floated around trying to collect it all, but pretty soon it was time for rentry and everybody at the front got fucking soaked as the vom was thrown forward.
>At least you got here so fast!
>I am never flying BFR again.

>>10008906
>Autopilots are perfect man what could go wrong

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyUvSuE5pa4

>>10008909
But >muh saving 5 hours of flight time

>>10008911
>Unironically posting this

lmao

>>10008909
>At least you got here so fast!
>Well, not really. It got put on hold for 5 hours again and we sat there closely packed, waiting if it is going to launch or not. Well, at least we didn't miss the launching window last like time, where we all had to depart again and fly the next day.

Fix'd that for you.

>>10008909
Military would sell their ass for real life drop pod or orbital dropship.
https://www.defensenews.com/space/2018/08/02/one-possible-job-for-spacexs-bfr-taking-the-air-forces-cargo-in-and-out-of-space/

>>10008907
it's real, right now no one is hyped. If it becomes standard it will become a trend to go into space. It will be like the africa trip for college girls.

>>10008915
Great I can't wait for these advancements to be used by the military to kill more brown people in mud huts for oil.

>>10008915
The worst thing is that these bloat heads decide over hundreds of billions of dollars.

>>10008915
Space is absolutely amazing for military power and a nightmare to plan against. Can be anywhere and coming down with insane potential energy advantage. Just pure mass weapons, aka heavy things, become nukes.

>>10008914
>launch windows for earth-to-earth

>>10008923
I bet there would be restrictions about launching at night because of how insanely loud launches are. Nobody is gunna let themselves be kept up just because some rich dudes need to travel somewhere fast.

>>10008915
The UN will sanction america back to the stone age if the they consider doing this. Not happening. And that's without the public outrage that will burn down the whitehouse and pentagon.

>>10008927
not really, you can use space as a medium for travel without "weaponizing space". Assuming the BFR is just used for logistics.

Also the space force creation is pretty much telegraphing that we are going to weaponize space heavily

>>10008917
No, rich people dont give two shits about space. If they did, we would have private mansions on the moon since 50 years. From the gigantic amount of people who could afford a trip to the ISS, only 7 people actually bought it. That should give you a big hint.

>>10008927
Lmao if guantanamo bay won't cause that to happen then some space marines blasting a few brown cunts won't either.

>>10008927
No one banned USSR from testing cannons in space and making space stations with guns.

>>10008932
just wait and see. It's going to be a trend.

Noice, new SpaceX launch!
They are pretty fun to watch with anons

>>10008932
Only because you could only buy 100 million ticket for tiny Soyuz which has holes to space instead of comfortable large space cruise ship.

>>10008935
No, it's not. 5k upvotes on reddit is not representative of the general population, and sure as fuck not of rich people.

>>10008942
Nice strawman

>>10008942
I'm talking network effects after 20-30 tourists go up. The social media age and rich in general will be desperate to get in on this.

>>10008939
Soyuz has launch escape system and the bfr doesn't.
Nobody will pick the latter simply because of the risk.

>>10008954
No, absoluetely not. As I said, 7 ISS tourists in 30 years, while there are over 2.000 billionaires on earth.

>>10008987
ISS can't support tourists because Space Shuttle retirement removed vacant seats on Soyuz.

>>10008990
Cost point was 20-40 million dollars to fly to the ISS an back. Just face it, people just generally didn't care.

>>10008996
Gee maybe because the ISS is boring as fuck? There is fuck all to see in space so if nothing built up there to see then the only option for tourism is the moon and oh look that's exactly what they are fucking doing.

>>10008996

It's all pricetag based. Dropping from what billionaires can afford to multi millionaires to millionaires to thousandaires will see an amplification of the market.

>>10008999
Seconded, ISS is barely better than Mir from Armageddon movie.

>>10008999
If you ride with the russians you also can't step into the american side of the station because NASA is absolutely butthurt about dirty tourists being on par with their best and brightest astronaut corps. Also might mess up the important microgravity research.

>>10009001
There are 2000 billionaires, so if 7 bothered to go to space, that's 0,3% of the billionaire-population was interested into going to space. In reality, its even less than that, because not all space tourists were billionaires, since you dont need to be a billionaire to afford a 40 million trip. But lets stick with the billionaire figure. With 0,3%, even if the ticket cost only a few thousand dollars, so that the whole american population can afford it, it's a max of 1 million space tourists, who will travel to space once during their life time. So that's like 20.000 space tourists every year. At a few thousand $ per ticket, you are looking at profits in the range of <100 million per year.

>>10009028
One of the tourists should just barge his way in and be all like what the fuck are you going to do now cunts

>>10009034
>Only 0.3% of the population would ride an ICBM to space for a few thousand dollars

lmao

>>10009044
I'd actually say its less than that. Wealthy people are ususally more venturesome. Some dude working some lowly job struggeling to pay bills probably won't bother to spend thousands of dollars so that he might die in a giant fireball.

>>10009034

As a thought, 7 people playing 50+ million will at least cover a BFS for a moon landings. Even if we're overestimating demand because we're space fans we may see some cool stuff. Minimally, tourism as a side business and whatever it amounts to still helps pay the bills.

>>10008707
>man if you had moon flyby tickets at a mil a pop the line would be ridiculously long
Are you sure? I mean you arent considering the risk of dying factor. You can do a lot of awesome risky things for a few hundreds and there arent long lines for it.

>>10008902
>destroy whole cities.

That's not how it works, kid.

>>10008895
>>10008900
It is hard to defend against a government paid op to blow up your buildings.

>>10008543
>>10008544
>>10008553
How are they going to prevent this from being shuttle 2.0? (Aka a deathtrap that needs total refurbishing after each launch)

>>10009269
its on top of the rocket instead of strapped to the side, for one.

>>10009269
Well its long and pointy rather than short and stubby so it can't be shuttle 2.0.
A more thorough view at its design and performance would likely reveal great many differences within the boundaries of sound engineering and physics.

>>10008826

They will when they are the ones flying the rockets. USAF loves 707s flying in their airspace when it's their 707's (R/KC-135)

9 bongs to go!

>>10008987
dude those are not similar to upcoming space tourism you dumb fucking retard

7 spots on some soyuz russian shit is not sexy for some huge multiple of BFR costs

I don't think that tourism will be that big of a component of SpaceX in the near future. Shotwell doesn't think so, according to a recent interview; she said that they don't have any plans for any space hotel type things

>>10009483
>literally announcing a space tourist later today
>posting this
>in a fucking thread about the space tourist

The thing is it's all speculation. They have to build the BFR and it has to succeed first. But, theoretically tourism will eventually be a huge component to space travel, "experiences" don't require building anything expensive like a satellite.

Maezawa tweeted a photo of his $140,000 Patek Philippe watch, which is counting down to the livestream. So, yeah
https://twitter.com/yousuck2020/status/1041135281653465088

>>10009489
* counting down to 19 sep 2023. Launch date?

>>10009051
Sounds like a good time, sign me up

>>10009051
If it was 5k for a moon circle, the demand would be insane. I'd be camping out for the line.

5 million is probably a good price point to have endless demand.

>>10008724
Students at universities build probes and other high end equipment all the time for final year projects
a university would be willing to work with their best and brightest students to have their project sent into space if it became that cheap to do so, it would give them great recognition and advertisement ideas if they did

>>10009532
>7 people wanted to go to the ISS for 20 million
>for 5 million demand for moon fly-by would be endless

yeah, sure.

>>10009541
the six months of training was a big hinderance probably

>>10009159
he has a point though
while in reality it cannot happen, the common people are easily fooled cattle, and can easily be made to hate this idea because of the perceived dangers, like how they are with nuclear power despite nuclear being the safest energy source

>>10008897
New shepard is well known for being a rocket that will never, ever launch, and virgin galactic doesn't even go to space at all
people who want to spend fucktons of money to go to space want to go to space for real, not go above an imaginary line for five minutes and then come down again

>>10008007
>Blue Orange
Audibly keked

>>10009579
NS will fly humans; they're just taking their time. Delays are to be expected when you're flying people up to space.

>>10009591
delays sure, but we have long since fucking passed the point where is could be considered a delay

>>10009597
they've pushed back the manned flight about a year in total. That's not too bad, all things considered. it's BO's first rodeo after all. They were a think tank up until ~2009

It's less of a delay than crew dragon ;\

>>10007924
so how is that in-situ technology coming? How do we turn regolith into more than simple gravel using heat, electricity and chemicals? And can we source the expended chemicals through local agriculture?

>>10009614
There are certainly a lot of papers hypothesizing methods which could work. The viability of current designs seems iffy though.
iirc SpaceX isn’t bothering to work on ISRU tech right now- other companies need to step up to the plate

>>10009614
it's going reasonably well, several companies are working hard on getting it done

>>10008971
aeroplanes dont have an escape system either

BFR will be safer than Soyuz due to its aeroplane-like operation (high flight rate)

>>10009269
no pesky hydrogen, more advanced heat shield, no debris risk during launch

>>10009619
>iirc SpaceX isn’t bothering to work on ISRU tech right now- other companies need to step up to the plate

Wrong, they confirmed that they are working on ISRU for years as refueling on Mars surface is the core part of their architecture

STS had no escape system either.

LES is a bad idea for BFR. The weight penalty and additional failure modes are worse than just designing the thing to be reliable in the first place - if it HAS to work when taking off from mars, it will also work when taking off from earth.

>>10009661
First couple flights had ejector seats, but those were death traps in their own right

>>10009601
But Blue Origin don't have to circumnavigate NASA's ridiculously stringent safety requirements and their sluggish bureaucracy to fly customers, unlike SpaceX...

>>10009757
How is blue origin doing? I'm assuming someone in the thread knows. They seem to be really far behind spacex to casual observation

>>10009865
https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1039516853305991168

>>10009865
slow but steady wins the race

>>10009865
Also, they recently passed 1500 employees. (For comparison, SpaceX has like 7000)

>>10009888

not really, pretty much never

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1041771381636063232

elon floating the idea of drafting up a mars constitution before even landing. Would /sci/ be up to the task of writing one up? I could start a google doc

>>10008853
You cant hijack an automated rocket

>>10009951
you literally can't; the flight profile is permanent and the rocket is unable to change it past t-60. the only possible way to sabotage a flight is by compromising the code beforehand.

at least, that's how f9 works. zero human input for the entire flight, even including payload separation

>>10009919
It would mostly have to do with ad-hoc imprisonment. Preventative cool down measures and things like that. The cost of actually dealing with assault or a murder is too high on mars or a colony ship. The threshhold must be much lower, aka actually preventative instead of punitive.

>>10009970
I would imagine something like constant stress testing, resolution of disputes, etc is far more important than constitutions or penal codes.

>>10009886
It seems to me like they are rushing to yet humans into space on their dumb suborbital rocket.

>>10009919
People who won't be actually taking the risk and making the journey to Mars should have absolutely zero part in crafting the martian constitution. It should be drafted by the brave men that make the journey once they get their like America's constitution. Otherwise you end up with a bunch of gay communist shit.

>>10010045
Why even have a constitution at that point. Such a small and focused crew won't need litigation. Establish a communal agreed upon framework that they all like for handling issues/criminality and move on.

>>10010049
If their goal is to actually form a colony then a constitultional government will be needed at some point.

>>10010062
there will be an organisation on Earth managing every shit they take for at least ten years and probably even longer, just like the ISS now. As long as they rely on Earth for survival that will be the case.

I worry about them turning into a selfish, lazy cargo cult who know Earth will keep sending them supplies

>>10010075
Assuming that will be the case, I expect the cargo cultness will likely be mitigated by the strict standards in place for people wanting to go to Mars. By the time normal people are going in large numbers the planet should be self sufficient enough for that not to be an issue.

>>10009919
The UN should be the organization responsible for such constitution.

>>10009970
Lel any real Mars colony isn't going to be wasting precious resources on holding criminals, they will just get thrown out an airlock or tossed into a recycling plant.

>>10010098
This is so toxic and anti-human it really puts a big dent in the whole point of going there.

>>10010090
Let's not

>>10010101
Harsh conditions breed a harsh society.

>>10010089
I worry that the reliance on Earth will drag on though, into the first generation of people born on Mars who did not choose to be there and who do not/cannot understand hard work in the same way as people on Earth do. People on Earth don't have a team of people stage managing every aspect of their lives (generally)

>>10010101
Murderers and rapists have no right to life, get fucked.

>>10010098
In Blish’s The Duplicated Man, if you stepped on the grass on Venus in the underground domes you were swiftly executed - since the plant life was critical for their oxygen supply and food

>>10007924
>not sending an American
Who gives a fuck

>>10010134
>implying that there won’t also be American astronauts onboard

He’s just the first paying customer. Not a big deal

>>10009970
>>10009978
A story which I think signifies the importance of good stress testing and ad-hoc imprisonment is the story of Sir Douglas Mawson.
>The year is 1911-1913
>Mawson is an Australian with a scientific interest in Antartica
>Wanted to survey 2000 miles of unknown land
>Gathered money, a boat, and 31 men
>Extremely green crew; 1/3 of his men had never seen snow
>Hoped to be the first expedition to have radio contact with the outside world
>Docked at Commonwealth bay, set up a hut
>The windiest place in the WORLD: average wind velocity in May was 60 miles per hour
>Mawson splits his men into groups of three who would man-haul sledges around and collect data
>Mawson himself got the most difficult trek, and thus has dogs to help with the sledging
>The two other men in his trio are Xavier Mertz, a Swiss lawyer/ski jump champion and British Lieutenant Ninnis
>They set out on a 350 mile trip with 16 dogs and 1,720 lb of food & two sledges
>Ninnis carried most of the food and the tent supplies in one sledge, and kept up the rear of the group
>This way if Mawson, who carried the other sledge, falls into a crevasse the other two can still survive
>5 weeks of the trek pass
>Ninnis falls in a 150 foot crevasse
>They spend three hours shouting for him, but to no avail
>The only supplies left were some of the dogs, sleeping bags, and food for a week
>300 miles to get back
>six dogs left
>as each dog collapses, they shoot it, eat some, and feed the rest to the remaining dogs (all of the dog food was on Ninnis’s sledge)
>About 150 miles later, all of the dogs are gone
>Mertz starts to go crazy, swinging his arms and raving
>Dies during the night
>Mawson now continues on back towards the base camp, driven by the desire to see his fiancée
>”I have no hope of making it back alive” he says in his diary

>>10010178
>20 miles later, he falls into a crevasse
>attached to his sledge by a 14 foot rope
>sledge catches on the edge
>Mawson can’t even touch the edges of the crevasse
>Considers detaching from the rope and ending it there
>Pulls himself up
>Lip of the crevasse breaks again, he falls back down
>Makes a second effort, manages to crawl out and immediately passes out
>Takes 20 days to make the last 80 miles of the return journey
>Then, is stuck in an 8-day storm 5 miles from the hut
>There had been a deadline for their ship to return home…
>Makes it to the hut, there are six men who were left to find Mawson’s trio
>He misses the ship’s departure by five hours and must winter over with the six others
>While wintering over, he learned of the plight of Scott
>The radio operator, one of the six, then goes insane and has thoughts of murdering the others
>All make it home safely when the ship returns in the spring
>During the trek, Mawson went snow-blind and had to put cocaine drops in his eyes
>The soles of his feet fell off
>He developed blisters, boils, and bloody hands
>Was malnourished, his hair was falling out, and was extremely emaciated

>But wait, there is a theory that he poisoned Mertz and/or ate him


The main takeaway here is that a) Mawson is badass, b) it's important to keep useful people around on Mars even if on Earth we'd chuck em in a prison cell. The radio operator was crucial for the rescue and sanity of the six, and without him no one would be able to contact the outside world (no one else knew how to use the radio set). This was in spite of him getting close to slaughtering the other five due to his extreme delusions.

~3 bongs to go

>>10009919
holy shit this thread is full of dumb bullshit.. humans seriously shouldn't be allowed to govern themselves in their current state

>>10010209
not even if it's a fresh start? The populace of Mars will consist of technicians, test pilots, engineers, systems managers, and probably really, really, good cooks. That seems like a perfect place to 'test' a new method of managing humans.

>>10010214
oh no don't get me wrong man, I've been thinking about the whole mars fresh start for a while now and I really hope it goes well (also tryna be one of those people)
it's just, when you ask people a question like "what should be guaranteed in the charter of a new nation on a new world" and the responses are either platitudes about love being the answer or demands about niche interests, spreckled with emojis, it just... makes you worried

>>10010214
I agree, we can start with the removal of universal franchise, giving all and sundry the right to vote has been a fucking disaster.

>>10010089
>>10010075
cargo cultish feelings rely on being below a critical mass of 'stuff'.
The state of Hawaii depends on the rest of the US/world for food, oil, and products to sustain the lives of the people living there. It is not self reliant in the slightest (for our modern society that is). Yet, I wouldn't say that people are lazy on Hawaii. they still have to 'work'. Perhaps this isn't the best analogy, but I think there is a point to be made.

>>10010230
>>10010223
>>10010214
Don't take me too seriously on this because I haven't thought this opinion through enough but I honestly would not be opposed to a governmental system run by three bodies
1) An AI trained on a utilitarian cost function (cost function TBD)
2) An AI trained on deontological morals
3) A congress of humans elected democratically
In which the congress mediates disagreements between the two AI and has the ability to override both of them with a 2/3 majority (to prevent any real fuckups that the computers come up with)

>>10010245
AI needs large datasets to train from, along with specific variables that they aim to maximize or minimize. How would you set up the AI without imparting human bias? What would they be trained to maximize?

>>10010245
>Elected representatives

No thanks, leave that garbage behind.

>>10010258
The moment we can elect janitors on 4chan is the moment I’ll accept that electing representatives is a good idea

>>10010258
for mediating disputes and stopping disastrous decisions I can't think of a better way
maybe representatives chosen based on a meritocracy?
>>10010254
idk I don't wanna speak about things outside of my field too much, as I say I haven't thought this opinion through much, but maybe simulate society and train your utilitarian AI to maximize a function composed of happiness, scientific development, or anything else that you want to promote
of course human bias is still there in the setup, but the point is eliminating decisions made for personal gain and eliminating governmental inefficiency

Governance via anonymous imageboard. Each citizen is given a unique ID that is masked as anonymous when online, each topic for review will have all the pertinent information contained within the OP and each citizen is allowed a single post. The posts are then aggregated and a decision formed based on the reply chain.

>>10010285
4chain memebucks

Voting rights should be based on how many CGI of rockets a citizen can produce within a given time frame.

>>10010297
Pepe memes will be the official currency of Mars.

Why do I get the feeling that the substance of this announcement will be overshadowed by some meme?

>>10008761
SpaceX has so much investor interest that they can afford to be picky about their investors, a fact that has come up every time somebody asks Elon or other SpaceX senior staff about investment or taking the company public.

>>10010363
If BFR really does work has claimed and they go public, there is going to be mountains of investor money, they will probably just be able to build a fucking fleet of the things.

>>10010377
We know Musk is averse to public trading

>>10010101
limp wristed numales have no place in a colony
pioneering is for men

>>10010377
It won't be public at least until Mars flights are consistently happening.

>>10010090
>unironically giving that bunch of unelected soulless cunts influence
the UN is literally gay baby jail for all the shitters who thought they could easily become the new world order and rule the masses and were instead tricked into becoming powerless
they're supposed to receive mockery for it, not power

>Public trading SpaceX

Fuck no keep those slimy day traders out, look at the shitstorm Tesla is in, hopefully he learned his lesson there.

>>10010245
>3) A congress of humans elected democratically In which the congress mediates disagreements between the two AI and has the ability to override both of them with a 2/3 majority (to prevent any real fuckups that the computers come up with)

You mean a congress of people whom could possibly be corrupted and or bribed to push an agenda. Likely, elected by a shitton of payed or influenced people and groups possibly having ties to, or employment by a company with said agenda? No thanks, chuck human intervention in governing in the bin!
<Have a 3rd AI to dispute disagreements.

Also I may have missed it. Who's taking a flight around the moon? Is it some famous actor?

>>10008807
They would always ass-over for me on reentry in KSP

>>10008584
>looks like the heatshield is going to be tiles though, yikes
PICA-X is already tiles on the Dragon.

The problem with the space shuttle TPS wasn't "tiles", but tiles that were expensive, hard to work with, and brittle. They used silica aerogel, basically glass foam. It was a bitch to cut to shape, it had no flexibility to stretch with the aluminum skin as it expanded with heat (which required a complex multilayer interface), and could be shattered with slight mishandling. PICA is basically a carpet of carbon fiber soaked in resin. It's tough, easy to work, and flexible.

>>10010552
Fucking Captcha ate my picture.

>>10010377
But why go public when you can cherrypick private investors who are waiting in a line around the block to give you money?

>>10009539
nononono
>>10008724
is right, the spacecraft costs more than the launch, that's what people didn't get when they were asking why spaceX launched a car into space instead of "something useful"
in the case of a university cubesat, the launch might represent up to half of the mission budget (this is the case with the mission I'm working on), but for a proper "probe" it's usually more than an order of magnitude more expensive

>>10008902
>>10008911

you're dumb, t. spacecraft control MS

You guys ready?

WE MOON NAO

>>10010552
space shuttle used reinforced carbon carbon not silica aerogel

>>10010588
We excited, finally we are making space moves again!

The future is looking good, remember to drink water and exercise, gotta keep healthy.

stream start

STREAMS UP

LIV

Get in here buckos >>10010611

>>10010590
I know it used reinforced carbon carbon for the leading edges but I think most of the tiles were made out of a different material. >>10010591

JESUS CHRIST NIGGERS GET IN HERE

POSTING IN A STICKY

>>10010590
It used both, and some other things, but the black tiles on the bottom everyone thinks of were silica aerogel (with a borosilicate coating, which is what made it black). The white tiles covering most of the rest were similar but thinner and without the black coating.

The carbon-carbon was only used for the leading edges of the wings and the nosecone.

STICKY TIME
MUSK TIME
MOON TIME

I am so fucking excited words can not comprehend what i am feeling right now. The hottest fucking girl in the world could come in my room and i would reject that bitch for this.

time for BFR info, whoops

>>10010646
it's just an announcement jesus christ. if it was the actual launch event i would cum in my pants but chill dude.

>Musk spends decades dissing the space shuttle
>his new rocket is literally just the space shuttle but on top of the rocket instead of on the side
>it even features no launch escape system
APOLOGIZE

>go time and internet keeps shitting itself on my end

8 O CLOCK TICK TOCK

>>10010647
*WHOOP

Come on bitches you ready to get your dicks hard?

Imagine putting your trust in a company to take you to the fucking moon and they can't even start their presentation on time. Pathetic.

Why bring up Apollo if they aren't even gonna land on the moon?

>>10010649
>that sexy twang

2 MIN BEHIND

9:02 and nothing yet, wrap it up and go home

>>10010648
When I first heard about it I thought it was going to be the launch and I was so excited.

YOU'RE LATE SHITLORDS

>>10007924

i'm inside ur sticky, baby

>>10010649
I won't apologize, the Space Shuttle was retarded. Two crews got BTFO in that gay space plane.

HURRY THE FUCK UP E ELON

Anyone elses update button broken? Have to F5.

MOON

>breaking news elon musk has just been assassinated

>>10010655
There are some clouds the countdown starts again in 5 minutes

>>10010670
(MOUNTAIN)

>>10010649
why are rockets so fucking cool

ELON PUT THE BLUNT DOWN AND START THE STREAM

>>10007928
confirmed

These morons operate in a field where nanoseconds can mean life or death. Why say 6 if you're not starting at 6? This guy better get his refund

https://twitter.com/yousuck2020/status/1041854345606819840
Maezawa confirmed

>>10010670
FEEL SO MOON

>>10010651
I feel you anon, my internet is being a piece of shit right now. Then again, it always is.

>>10010678
yep. Yusaku Maezawa confirmed

>The billionaire japan man has shit in his pants last minute and don't want to go to the moon now.

Does youtube streaming have a chat box? Where do I shitpost?

>>10010675
Because the propellant is pressurized at low temps

GREETINGS EARTHLINGS

>>10010688
here, of course

>>10010672
No lie I would probably cry.

>>10010669
mine is, too.

>>10010688
spacex turns it off sadly

4chan fix your fucking update button

>song ends
>intro screen blips out a bit
oh boy here we go
>new song begins

>>10010683

HERE WE GO

HARDWARE REVEAL

IT BEGINS

live niggers

SOMETHING IS HAPPENING

AAAAAAAAA

>>10010688
on the twitch restreams

what the hell

HOLY SHIT HE HAS A GUN GET DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!

All this just for an announcement thing.

HURRY UP

'ere we go

>dat BFR cross section on the wall
unf

inb4 scrubbed

GUYS
GUYS
THAT BFR BANNER IS 1:1 SCALE
HOLY SHIT

the graphic on the wall is pretty cool not gonna lie

watch elon just dab and then step away & end the stream

>>10010712
Thats not what a cross section is brainlet

IS THE BLACK TARP WITH THE BFR GOING TO FALL AND REVEAL BFR?

anyone else freaked out by the big ass engine pointed directly at all the people

>>10010691
>first man to go to the moon in 30 years - on an American rocket - is a nip hipster
life is suffering

HURRO

guy waving in the window

>>10010718
Yeah I forgot what that angle is called

>>10010719
the tarp will drop and elons gonna flamthrower everyone in the crowd

>>10010721
are you fucking retarded? do you think they keep that thing powered up and full of cryogenic propellant in there?

R E N D E R S

>>10010727
Why bother when they have 9 merlin engines pointed straight at the crowd?

sound?

>>10010726

>>10010724
That angle is called "the bottom".

>>10010729
are you telling me that it is IMPOSSIBLE for elon to be a murderous psychopath who's waited this long to do something like that? like that it's PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE?

>space violin
Elon posted this a few months ago, hope he explains it

fuck my life, I can literally only see this in 144p right now.

>>10010731

You've got to be squiding me

>>10010734
T-POSE!

HES HERE

booo!

The autist himself

CAPS LOCK

elon is a cold boye

WHY BFR?
HOW BFR?

>when you're so loaded you just can't bring yourself to prepare or rehearse for a presentation.

>>10010738
Not much to see really, it is only an announcement, not a launch.

>>10010751
more importantly

WHEN BFR?

It ain't an Elon speech without the stuttering

MAN MADE EVENT ENDING CIVILIZATION OH NOOOOOOOOOOOO

D-d-d-did I st-st-stu-stutter?

>>10010755
YEE!

>>10010751
It stands for "Big Fucking Rocket"

This guy is beta.

>>10010754
KEK

>>10010756
what does he know !

Now is SpaceX
Soon, RSI

>>10010752
nigga woke up 20 minutes ago

VENUS AND JUOPITER MOON CONONIZING CONFIRMEF

Venus? The absolute mad lad

How can one man be so autistic my god

>ULA shills bullying Elon about his stuttering

>>10010765
>Jupiter
Gas Planet.

>Elon Musk low key warning the world that we're going to die soon by an incoming asteroid SpaceX discovered

I always wondered, what are those two plastic panel things on either side you sometimes see at public speaking events?

Who /excited about the future/ here?

>>10010763
when star citizen comes out, it will be set in the past

i wonder if thundercuck is kicking over TVs and throwing papers into the air in a fit of rage right now

#occupyuranus

>>10010771
Where did he mention that?

>>10010773
Teleprompter.

>drops pack of gum

>drops spaghetti

god elon is literally dropping his spaghetti. i get anxious just watching him talk.

How boring can this guy make fucking spaceships god dayum.

Elon is going to give us a 2 hour history lesson of SpaceX

Grab some coffee boys

>drops the bass

>says a few tidbits of spacex history or broad statements about bfr
>looks offstage for a few seconds

>>10010775
Underrated
t. someone who wants Star Citizen to come out in our lifetime

this is so embarrassing

>vibrations cutting out the feeds

>>10010776
hopefully he'll be busy raging about women who won't have sex with him because he's so ugly

How do redditors actually like this fuccboi?

[Hyperventilating Intensifies]

Elon Musk looked disgusting--nipples protruding--in his blue shirt before Falcon. Very very disrespectful.

if i get dubs he'll hurry the fuck up

Give this man some crack cocaine he need sum melk

>>10010799
checked

>>10010796
Just to redpill ya'll:

>>10010784
I get excited, look at those nipples protruding from his shirt.

>Elon dies on stage before he announces BFR plans

>>10010788
I think he was making sure the tech team was ready to put shit on screen/stream

>>10010791
First time hearing him talk?

Get this stuttering autist off the stage hes ruining my stream experience

I kind of like his autism. Would hang out with Elon. Nigga doesn't even comb his hair.

i aM nOt AwArE oF AnYoNe!

Elon definitely hit the bong right before this started to calm the nerves

Ok I had to shut it. I can't stand second hand embarrassement. Elon should not be presenting for the company.

>>10010802
fuck off nazi, don't try to make this about you

>>10010811
He seems like the kind of guy that gets paranoid and super introspective on pot

>>10010812

First time hearing him talk or what?

>>10010812
Sounds like you've never heard his announcements before

>foundation series

YOU ARE LOSING ALL THE NORMIES
psychohistory

>>10010814
AAA RENDERS!

>>10010812
Its his company he can do whatever the heck he wants boi


>100 tons to LEO reusable
dang

I'm getting flashbacks to college communications class.

-50t

>>10010812
Doesn't help that everything he's talking about is boring as fuck and already known. I too am peacing out

>100t
JUST

orbtbritbrbirbobrobrorobotborborotaital tanking

>>10010806
no but it's still embarrassing. He should really try to fix that.

B R E A T H E

>O-o-o-o-o-rbital refue- oo-o-o-o-orbital retanking

I remember highschool PowerPoint presentations having less spaghetti than this

D O W N G R A D E
HHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

INTERPLANETARY

>>10010821
>Anon, now's your turn - tell us about yourself and your hobbies

who /thunderf00t/ here?

>1000+m^3
Shit, that may be larger than ISS

AFT CARGO!

>humanities savior is an autist
feels good man

Elon you could have just made a video to show what you are trying to say

Imagine paying millions to be the first commercial astronaut to die on launch. I wouldn't trust this man if he was my uber driver

>t-t-the... the th-third fin actually... it does not actuate

How many people is this going to killl?

So is just it a Kinda Big FR now?

omg this is amazing

>MEGANEWTON CLASS OF FORCE

zooming confirmed

>>10010846
100t is fucking impressive for FULL REUSE and cheap flights

100x better than current rockets

what kind of great """journalist""" is this? The Verge?

now Elon is explaining orbital mechanics for normies

jesus we're gonna be a here a while

>tfw the general public doesn't even know this
>tfw I have to explain this to people over and over

IT LOOKS LIKE A COCK

Squibs!

shit maybe this guy SHOULD smoke some fucking weed, calm his stuttering ass down.

Who would have thought we'd go to the Old Scifi design of the 50s for our real rockets.

>>10010816
>>10010817
I've watched the earlier BFR stuff and today he sounds like he barely even followed the recent changes to the design.

>>10010855
Every fucking day!

>>10010860
he's just explaining stuff for normies

EBIN

Can't wait for him to butcher the Japanese dude's name

>let's play the video again
*silence*

>>10010858

>"This will look really epic in person"

lol the two wings just kinda flailing for a moment there

>>10010854
inb4 he fires up KSP

>>10010856
>riding a giant dick to space

>>10010867
Ok, this is ____

Yikes...

it's going to kill everyone on board isn't it

NOT A PAPER ROCKET

OH FUCK ITS THE FUSELAGE

>>10010872
r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-really cool.

>>10010874
I don't think so. SpaceX can't just kill a crew of people and shrug it off like NASA. They aren't that powerful.

>>10010871
>>10010856
getting Rythem Heaven Fever X flashbacks

AAAAAAAA HARDWARE