/sci/ - Science & Math

>>15109197
Via gradual mind uploading. First we will replace natural brain cells with artifical ones until one`s brain is fully cybernetic. Then the brain architecture will expanded on virtual brain cells until the loss of the physical component are redundant. Then we have achieved a fully digital and immortal mind.

Is it possible to simulate brain cells or even a entire brain? Did Neurokernel succeed at creating a digital fly mind?

>>14544751
>Immortality should be biological.
Gradual Uploading may offer the solution. You can exchange all your brain cells with artifical ones following the neurogenesis/regeneration process untill all cells are now nanomechanical devices.
A follow-up idea would be the link up of virtual neurons with analog brain components, so that you can grow up your mind. This would offer the possibility to make the analog part of your brain redundant to keep your conscious mind.

>>12580699
Fundamentally, there needs to be "bidirectional" thought for any transfer in order to preserve ego continuity. If we imagine a mind as like water or some fluid, and the brain as a vessel for it, then just "pouring" the mind into a new vessel doesn't preserve continuity; the new mind in the new vessel can't communicate back to old mind in the old vessel.
However, if we consider simply connecting the two vessels and siphoning the mind from one to the other (at whatever speed) while the new mind can talk to the old mind as the latter is transferred to the former, then continuity is maintained and death does not occur.
Thus the Moravec Transfer/Gradual neuron replacement or the Mind Shift are viable methods for a mind upload, but those two methods are far harder to achieve than simply creating a copy of one's mind. The Moravec Transfer only changes the substrate and the Mind Shift requires a full understanding of your own internal processes (autosentience).

>>12448002
/sci/ is a Moravec Transfer board.

>>12414659
Ever heard of the Moravec Transfer? At its basest form it is theory that the mind is a continious process and that only by preserving that process a ego transfer would be possible. The two known methods would be the gradual neuron replacement, a hijack of the neurogenesis process that exchanges natural brain cells with nanomachines, and the Mind Shift process. The latter is a bit more dubious as the Gradual Neuron Replacement occurs naturally already.
The mind shift works by utilizing external hardware and software connected directly and indirectly to the user's brain to allow a slow transfer of consciousness out of the biological substrate and into external databases. Imagine yourself getting additional brain matter but in digital form.
This could allow the user to "outsource" much of one's mentality and memory storage to external substrates which were separate from the sophont's own brain, until finally most of the sophont's thoughts, perceptions, memories, identity, etc. take place outside and away from the mass of grey matter the sophont initially came equipped with. The external hardware which gradually comes to hold more and more of the individual's personality is known as the exocortex, while the software which runs on this equipment is known as the Exoself. It could be possible to transfer bi-directionally most of a biont's extended consciousness by this method, since many of the most competent processes of intellect now occur outside the skull in the exocortex. The problem would be that you would have to revist every singular part of your mind in a total manner, such a task can only be accomplished if you have total self-awareness (autosentience) so that your analog part of your brain becomes redundant for the main processes, a loss of them would then affect your Ego the same as a stroke.

>>12366032
>Fundamentally, there needs to be "bidirectional" thought for any transfer in order to preserve ego continuity. If we imagine a mind as like water or some fluid, and the brain as a vessel for it, then just "pouring" the mind into a new vessel doesn't preserve continuity; the new mind in the new vessel can't communicate back to old mind in the old vessel.
However, if we consider simply connecting the two vessels and siphoning the mind from one to the other (at whatever speed) while the new mind can talk to the old mind as the latter is transferred to the former, then continuity is maintained and death does not occur.
>Thus the Moravec Transfer/Gradual neuron replacement or the Mind Shift are viable methods for a mind upload, but those two methods are far harder to achieve than simply creating a copy of one's mind. The Moravec Transfer only changes the substrate and the Mind Shift requires a full understanding of your own internal processes (autosentience).

>>12339779
1
Fundamentally, there needs to be "bidirectional" thought for any transfer in order to preserve ego continuity. If we imagine a mind as like water or some fluid, and the brain as a vessel for it, then just "pouring" the mind into a new vessel doesn't preserve continuity; the new mind in the new vessel can't communicate back to old mind in the old vessel.
However, if we consider simply connecting the two vessels and siphoning the mind from one to the other (at whatever speed) while the new mind can talk to the old mind as the latter is transferred to the former, then continuity is maintained and death does not occur.
Thus the Moravec Transfer/Gradual neuron replacement or the Mind Shift are viable methods for a mind upload, but those two methods are far harder to achieve than simply creating a copy of one's mind. The Moravec Transfer only changes the substrate and the Mind Shift requires a full understanding of your own internal processes (autosentience).

>>12026937
Neurogenesis is a thing though. Your cells are already getting replaced, as long one maintains the process, the mind should survive it.

>>11541999
see >>11522954
To explain the gradual mind upload a bit better: There might exist two methods for it the Gradual neuron replacement and the Mind Shift.

Gradual neuron replacement occurs over a prolonged period of time, as the individual neurons of the sophont's mind are replaced one by one by functionally-equivalent devices. The brain continues to operate throughout the process, and if carried out correctly, the subject will experience no discontinuity as one’s brain slowly becomes replaced by electronic components.


The Mind Shift utilizes external hardware and software connected directly and indirectly to the user's brain to allow a slow transfer of consciousness out of the biological substrate and into external databases. This could allow the user to "outsource" much of one's mentality and memory storage to external substrates which were separate from the sophont's own brain, until finally most of the sophont's thoughts, perceptions, memories, identity, etc. take place outside and away from the mass of grey matter the sophont initially came equipped with. The external hardware which gradually comes to hold more and more of the individual's personality is known as the exocortex, while the software which runs on this equipment is known as the Exoself. It could be possible to transfer bi-directionally most of a biont's extended consciousness by this method, since many of the most competent processes of intellect now occur outside the skull in the exocortex.
The problem would be that you would have to revist every singular part of your mind in a total manner, such a task can only be accomplished if you have total self-awareness (autosentience).

>>11324030
You could replace all of it as long the continuity of the process is maintained.
A neuron-sized robot swims up to a neuron and scans it into memory. A computer starts simulating the neuron. The robot waits until the neuron perfectly matches its simulation inside the computer, and then replaces the neuron with itself as smoothly as possible, sending inputs to the computer and transmitting outputs from the simulation of a neuron inside the computer.
This entire procedure has had no effect on the flow of information in the brain, except that one neuron's worth of processing is now being done inside a computer instead of a neuron. Repeat, neuron by neuron, until the entire brain is composed of robot neurons whose guts are inside the computer.

>>11224893
Fundamentally, there needs to be "bidirectional" thought for any transfer in order to preserve ego continuity. If we imagine a mind as like water or some fluid, and the brain as a vessel for it, then just "pouring" the mind into a new vessel doesn't preserve continuity; the new mind in the new vessel can't communicate back to old mind in the old vessel.
However, if we consider simply connecting the two vessels and siphoning the mind from one to the other (at whatever speed) while the new mind can talk to the old mind as the latter is transferred to the former, then continuity is maintained and death does not occur.
Thus the Moravec Transfer/Gradual neuron replacement or the Mind Outsourcing are viable methods for a mind upload, but those two methods are far harder to achieve than simply creating a copy of one's mind. The Moravec Transfer only changes the substrate and the Gradual Upload requires a fully knowledge of your own internal processes(autosentience)..

>>11222658
We have the technology for genetic augmentation, in 30 years cybernetics will be advanced enough to replace and enhance all human bodily functions, in 60 years nanomachines be advanced enough to repair the damage done by age and grant immortality and finally in 90 years the Moravec Mind Transfer .that maintains your Ego but can't transform you into a digital posthuman, will be invented. Further down a century Mind Outsourcing might provide a method to maintain ego while bcoming a true digital posthuman.

>>10485746
It's probably gonna be a Roundworm: https://newatlas.com/c-elegans-worm-neural-network/53296/, then its going to be a mouse -
https://www.futuretimeline.net/blog/2018/07/10.htm.. A monkey brain will be the next step, human mind simulation will occur after that ad will be tied with AI programming, this simulated human mind will not e based on a RL human but be its own entity.
A Moravec Mind Transfer will be possible in around 80 years when we get functional biological nanomachines.

>>10140152
>>10138824

Fundamentally, there needs to be "bidirectional" thought for any transfer in order to preserve ego continuity. If we imagine a mind as like water or some fluid, and the brain as a vessel for it, then just "pouring" the mind into a new vessel doesn't preserve continuity; the new mind in the new vessel can't communicate back to old mind in the old vessel.
However, if we consider simply connecting the two vessels and siphoning the mind from one to the other (at whatever speed) while the new mind can talk to the old mind as the latter is transferred to the former, then continuity is maintained and death does not occur.
There are two methods to achieve this, the moravec and the Mind Outsourcing one:

Utilizing external hardware and software connected directly and indirectly to the user's brain to allow a slow transfer of consciousness out of the biological substrate and into external databases.
This technology could theoretically allow the user to "outsource" much of one's mentality and memory storage to external substrates which were separate from the sophont's own brain, until finally most of the sophont's thoughts, perceptions, memories, identity, etc. take place outside and away from the mass of grey matter the sophont initially came equipped with. The external hardware which gradually comes to hold more and more of the individual's personality is known as the exocortex, while the software which runs on this equipment is known as the Exoself. It is possible to transfer bi-directionally most of a biont's extended consciousness by this method, since many of the most competent processes of intellect now occur outside the skull in the exocortex.
The problem would be that you would have to revist every singular part of your mind in a total manner, such a task can only be accomplished if you have total self-awareness (autosentience).

Pattern Identity Theory
-------------------------------------
http://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/47bcf671e4c7e

>Pattern Identity theory maintains that human consciousness is a pattern of memories and programs inside the body, mostly but not all in the central nervous system, and like any other collection of programs and memories it can be copied and transmitted. Any human who is successfully uploaded experiences a true transfer of consciousness from the body into the new substrate.


Continuity Identity Theory
--------------------------------------
http://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/463a8c7f7cc4f

>Continuity Identity theory believe that a human consciousness cannot be directly copied. Any attempt to non-destructively upload a human consciousness only produces an entirely new individual which is only a copy of the original consciousness, and no actual transfer of consciousness occurs. In the case of destructive uploading, adherents of Continuity Identity theory consider the destructive scan is in fact an act of murder/suicide.

So which one is it /Sci/?