/sci/ - Science & Math

>>15493689
>And that's why you believe you live in a videogame. I definitely believe you.
The consciousness can not be "in" the virtual space of the VR. See pic. We are not a program. We INTERFACE with program through immersion. The feeling of "in-ness" is caused by immersion, which gives the feeling of the consciousness being in a head, on a body, operating in a vr (hence why you can look in a brain all you want but you will never see the subjective consciousness in there). Just as the consciousness is not "in" a dream, which is another virtual (informational, ie COMPUTED) consciousness based simulation of being "in" a matter based world.

>>15295487
Consciousness does not come from inside of the VR (universe) op. Consciousness is not some virtual data object which has a virtual position and momentum, see pic. The Universe is virtual, ie informational. Consciousness INTERFACES with physicality (the universe), and so while interfacing with physicality (virtuality) consciousness is CONSTRAINED by physicality as a feature of immersion in the VR. And so, in a situation such as hunger, for instance, the consciousness is CONSTRAINED by becoming more hungry. The free will then becomes constrained in terms of it being increasingly harder to resist eating. The consciousness STILL even under these circumstances has the CHOICE to not eat, even up to and including choosing to starve to death. What you are doing is like someone pointing to the screen of a video game that he is playing and declaring that his mind is in the head of the virtual avatar guy that he is controlling.

>>15247451
Yeah, this would be ultimately the closest thing if you clarified that it's the mind of the china man that dynamically experiences that experience or static frame by static frame process OF the scribbling and who operates on the data to read/interpret and to create actual qualitative INFORMATION. The virtual avatar body of the chinese guy is just data and a series of static frames and part of the virtual (physical) reality. It (the body) can't stand outside the physical world to see one of it's frames from the next. Physical things don't experience, they are just data. There is no real semantic platonic computation there or anywhere in the physical world. All real syntactic and semantic computation is done non-locally or outside the physical world. All apparent computation in the physical world is simulated computation which is a virtual representation of actual platonic abstract metaphysical computation which the consciousness immersed in the reality figured out how to harness and the visible 'physical' hardware and language symbols are just icons of or representations of non-local abstract consciousness/mind computation, hence why there was a period leading up to the advent of physical mechanization of abstraction where the abstract computation was figured out first.

>>15194018
more on this
>>15206694
idea in terms of why, being that the physical world is virtual, ie emergent from non-local (outside of spacetime) info processing, that brains can not be the seat of consciousness/mind, and why mind is non computational and only INTERFACES with algorithm and is CONSTRAINED in some ways by algo, as in any virtual experience, but is not resultant OF algo or formal language. This is why the AI will never have internal experience in a first person/subjective way. Also, even in terms of on/ off switches arranged in a certain structures cycled MIMICKING some of the things mind DOES and some of the CONTENT of mind, the AI orientated enterprise of creating a free will awareness unit is doomed.

>>15140502
>If we understood consciousness there's a possibility we could engineer
No, you couldn't. You might be able to SIMULATE certain things consciousness DOES, like reasoning, or some of the CONTENT that is EXPERIENCED by a consciousness, but by definition a simulation of consciousness can never be consciousness itself. Virtual things can't support consciousness see pic. In before
>the room itself is consciousness.
No, it isn't. Read the actual searle paper, He addresses this. This just kicks the can down the road.

>>15137470
>Just think about what it means for something to have a location
Correct. Non-local hidden variables means variables outside of spacetime, IE outside of the universe, ie no location in the universe. Causation comes from outside of the universe and this is also why brains in spacetime can't be the cause/seat of consciousness.

>>15134286
>if you can't prove it then why are you so comfortable claiming it exists?
Well, I suppose that if you are right, I have no choice whether I believe it or not. And you have no choice either. Putting aside this absurdity though, why wouldn't I be comfortable with it? Physicalism can't account for consciousness (see pic), so I see no reason that freewill couldn't be just a primitive of brute fact needed to resolve uncertainty in an information system. Lower chaos. Lower entropy. This gives it a telos and utility in the VR. You yourself assume it exist at least performatively. In other words, If you see some thing you want, say a new red car instead of a blue car, do you likely go 'well, I know I don't really have a choice, and my decision was baked into the initial conditions at the booting up of the reality, but I am going to PRETEND I am choosing to pick the one I want'. I would ask why you BELIEVE there there is an observer independent world of matter with defined values of classical type observables, even though this can not be 'proven'?
Have you ever experienced an observer independent reality without using consciousness as the interface and medium of the experience? Could an experiment ever be devised which could prove such a world of observer independent exists? No. ALL experience from womb till tomb happens in mind. All experiments conducted are designed by minds and the experience and the results are rendered into minds. Detectors are things rendered in the medium of minds as well, and the results are rendered probabilistically, see here
>>15133885
>such a system would, as in a video game, render content (reality) only at the moment that information becomes available for observation by a player and not at the moment of detection by a machine (that would be part of the simulation and whose detection would also be part of the internal computation performed by the Virtual Reality server before rendering content to the player).

>>15133563
Consciousness, the experiencer of the physical sensual data stream, is not a physical object (hence why it can't be objectively observed like a physical object can). It (consciousness/the observer) interfaces with physicality through constraints via immersion/presence. And so you are not 'in' the physical world. You are not 'in' a brain. You are given vantage point AS IF you (the consciousness, the fundamental you, the 'player') were in the brain looking out through eye holes. The virtual brain doesn't create consciousness. You are looking at it like a person playing a video game who points to the virtual head of the virtual guy you are controlling on the screen and says 'MY CONSCIOUSNESS IS IN THERE!!!'. It's not.

>>15127521
>Could we ever engineer sentient apes?
No. You can't engineer sentience. Sentience simply is. It's a primitive of consciousness, like freewill.You CAN use the constraints and ruleset of the virtual (physical) reality that we are immersed in to harness non-physical/platonic abstract computation, as has been done with what are called 'physical computers' (all computation is non-physical and the computers that man has made are user created virtual content which are a representation/on icon of real, non-physical abstract platonic ideal form computation), ie what has been produced in the past century in terms of computer tech. And so you can do many interesting things which mimic some of the content and procedures that real consciousnesses do such as the AI tech, but you can not create a freewill awareness unit in that way. This is like asking if sentience can arise in the video game avatar guy you are controlling. The sentience is non-local to the virtual space. It can't be IN the virtual space anymore than you (the consciousness) are 'in' the video game you play on your computer.