/sci/ - Science & Math

>>12162759
>You have chosen a method of presenting your case that makes it difficult to criticize not because your case is strong, but because you hide any purported strong points between weak ones and decline to put your best argument forward.
Yeah, I don't see it. If that's your take, fine enough, what can I tell ya.

>So far, your claim is that it caused this by liberating p-electrons
That is not my claim. You asked for mechanisms where biological effects can occur from low intensity RF irradiation, and I included that in the list. If we're talking about DNA damage specifically though, could altered electron transport change coiling behavior and shape of the DNA, thus alteroing gene expression and behavior of DNA repair enzymes, and leading to increased DNA damage either by lowered threshold for damage or decreased ability to repair natural background damage? Possibly. A recent paper found differences in DNA repair related genes correlated with thyroid cancer incidence among heavier mobile phone etc users. That's either in the thyroid or cancer section.

>DNA damage will at some point require changing the energy level of an electron by absorbing a microwave photon.
The first part is true, but the second is not. See the VGCC flow chart above, in addition to the papers on electron transport chain leakage. Also:
Pacher 2007 - Nitric Oxide and Peroxynitrite in Health and Disease
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2248324/

Knott 2009 - Nitric Oxide in Health and Disease of the Nervous System
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2933573/

>I thought we were talking about the DNA acting as an antenna.
We are. DNA also is surrounded by structured water, which is another target to act on apart from the DNA molecule itself.
[1/2]

>>10893573
Holy shit this actually does make sense. VGCC activation is associated with schizophrenia. The wifi signals turned you into a schizo. I'm #CLAMPED now.

>>10822364
>cells that are not meant to be stimulated deep in the body are stimulated*
VGCC as mentioned earlier play into this

>>10721930
It's the 5g/vgcc guy

>>10712140
Search the archives for "VGCC" and you'll understand who you're dealing with

regular reminder that VGCC anon is a crackpot

Interaction with the charge groups that comprise voltage gated calcium channel's voltage sensing subunit. Activation of which requires all charge groups being moved in roughly the same direction at nearly the same time, which in turn activates the two high affinity zones of its other subunits, and this is what occurs during normal physiological conditions and proper signalling.

Aberrant VGCC activation causes chronically elevated intracellular Ca2+. Which causes an upregulation of iNOS, overwhelmed NO processing pathways, which eventually downregulates superoxide dismutase activity, leading to the formation of peroxynitrite, single strand breaks, double strand breaks, etc. There are also some ideas in biophysics about the coiled coil structure of DNA causing it to act like a fractal antenna, and the nature of networks of cells acting as coupled oscillators, which leads to altered electron transport, etc. Which I don't really understand very well. The former is composed of well traced out pathways and their pathological states.

What is most important is that this is not new. These are not newage revelations. We knew these fields were active, and we knew about specific high activity windows as far back as the early 60's. 2.45Ghz was being studied specifically in the 70's, it caused immunological changes in the (rat) brain.

Naval Medical Research Institute Bibliography of US and Soviet research:
https://ufile.io/aw3nr (is there a better host?)

Two reviews. Follow citations:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0891061815000599?via%3Dihub
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3780531/

Proof of concept for a link between autism and overactive VGCCs:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_syndrome

>>10145950
What the fug are --/+/-- and [|(-/-)|]?
I think you should talk to mathematical genius Jonathan Tooker about your theory, and have electrical genius vgcc spammer help you with designing hardware.

>>10039017
Well, yes, all of that is occurring while the individual has the contents of the drink in their body, as well as its metabolites, condensation products, and so forth. My interest is state prior to drinking vs state after. To an extent mechanics driving the aspects of that transition. Memory formation is recovered, as is motor coordination and so forth. Most of these changes are functional, rather than mediated by cell death.

Now the main change far as I can tell comes from altered hormone release, and changes in dendritic spine formation and subsequent maintenance. a2-delta subunit behavior is clearly changed, and blocks of that VGCC subunit reverse it temporarily. There's also the well documented inability for immature spines to become mature spines, and overall the brain doesn't crystallize.

Are there any good papers on cell death in reasonable exposure conditions?

>VGCC retard is into chemtrails too
yep, this one's going into my mental illness.txt

Inb4 vgcc sped spends 48 hours spamming the thread in an amphetamine fueled rage.

>>9592765
don't get baited into it, that's just VGCC anon again

>>9222409
>>/sci/thread/S7412900#p7419557
>VGCC retard is a tweaker
Everything makes more sense.

>>9190964
>Article is written by layman
>Paper isn't finished
>Effects only found in male rats
>Exposed to radiation 12/7 (10 minutes on 10 off) for 2 years
>Article then quotes these guys who seem to be unaware of inverse square law https://centerforsaferwireless.us/web/main/
I'm convinced.
All we need is vgcc guy to show up and spout his drivel and this thread will be complete.

This guy writes long winded articles on vaccines, chemtrails, god, wireless being dangerous, and a whole bunch of other quackery.
https://thefullertoninformer.com/

The rest of my current favorite quacks are vgcc guy, geometric unity, the guy on /his/ who claims to be god, and Frank Slauenwhite.

>>9155794
Brain damage via a chronic pathological state characterized by neuroinflammation and faulty VGCC function.

>>9097771
>Still, despite the source showing convincing evidence that vgcc's are affected, it didn't seem to provide any evidence that this is in fact happening
That guy also never provides any evidence that any biochemical changes actually translate to large-scale impacts on human health.

The key link is purely supposition.

>>9096962
>>9096965
>>9097594
This sounds very conspiracy theory-ish to me. The paper is pretty clear that no precise target is known. The effect of emf on vgcc's is cited in a paper from 20 years ago but it only really takes about elf range and microwaves. ELF is basically non existent outside of those giant sub arrays but microwaves are used in alot of shit. Still, despite the source showing convincing evidence that vgcc's are affected, it didn't seem to provide any evidence that this is in fact happening. Considering how prolific microwaves are, there should be at of observable evidence out there.

Certainly interesting though. I was a radio tech in the Navy, and the old adage for radar techs was that they will only ever produce female offspring

>>9096874
Interaction with the charge groups that comprise voltage gated calcium channel's voltage sensing subunit. Activation of which requires all charge groups being moved in roughly the same direction at nearly the same time, which in turn activates the two high affinity zones of its other subunits, and this is what occurs during normal physiological conditions and proper signalling.

Aberrant VGCC activation causes chronically elevated intracellular Ca2+. Which causes an upregulation of iNOS, overwhelmed NO processing pathways, which eventually downregulates superoxide dismutase activity, leading to the formation of peroxynitrite, single strand breaks, double strand breaks, etc. There are also some ideas in biophysics about the coiled coil structure of DNA causing it to act like a fractal antenna, and the nature of networks of cells acting as coupled oscillators, which leads to altered electron transport, etc. Which I don't really understand very well. The former is composed of well traced out pathways and their pathological states.

What is most important is that this is not new. These are not newage revelations. We knew these fields were active, and we knew about specific high activity windows as far back as the early 60's. 2.45Ghz was being studied specifically in the 70's, it caused immunological changes in the (rat) brain.

Naval Medical Research Institute Bibliography of US and Soviet research:
https://ufile.io/aw3nr (is there a better host?)

Two reviews. Follow citations:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0891061815000599?via%3Dihub
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3780531/

Proof of concept for a link between autism and overactive VGCCs:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_syndrome

>>9092305
>"smart drugs"
Most of them are just anxiolytics and L-type VGCC blockers, which make people's brain work better in the presence of their wifi and cell phone saturated everyday lives. You hear the same thing with magnolia bark. Also a calcium channel blocker.

Phenibut and magnolia bark are very useful, but I do not consider them outright nootropics. They simply inhibit aspects of a negative baseline state.

>>9082820
All the (patentable and profitable, non-self-market-destroying) low hanging fruit have been plucked. There's still a decent amount to be done, but it's a diminishing field.

And besides, I've become relatively convinced nature, after a massive number of iterations, has already traced out the solutions to most of our problems. We just refuse to use them. Take carvacrol, from oregano, thyme, etc. Potent antibiotic, eliminates even the most resistant MRSA strains, and many don't seem to have the means or machinery to develop any effective resistance. There is a reason oregano resists pests, bacterial colonization, and fungal growth. Carvacrol significantly improves post stroke outcomes via acting as a potent ROS scavenger, and mild VGCC blocker. Etc. Many other culinary herbs have similar active monoterpenes as well. Wormwood's history and ability to treat malaria and parasite infestation is well known. Mucuna pruiens used in place of L-DOPA alone for parkinsons not only works better, but does not produce tardive dyskinesia. Likely because it's full of gluthionine and some other shit.

List goes on and on. Plants are not magic. They require a means to exist and survive, like any other organism. They're composed of, and target, the same low level machinery we do. And they get results. Comparatively with synthetic drug design, we don't. We get side effects and variable outcomes.

>>9072774
>your first link is broken
Fixed.

>Your second is to an obviously biased website
An appearance of bias is not necessarily a negative in a climate of almost universal opposing bias, when you're a neutral observer. Nonetheless I am wary of them as well. Though I'm not really sure how they're "obviously biased" in a meaningful way. The statement itself suggests bias.

When you're dealing with the human race you need to accept that very few people's value system is actually geared around truth. It might pretend to be, but is really hedonism and desire in disguise. Your own reason and error control has to come into play as a result, always.

>your third and fourth links are by the same dude with single authorship.
They're reviews, the substance is in the citations and (if done legitimately) any greater perspective from aggregation of data. I included them specifically because of this, it links to studies done monitoring calcium flux. Pulsed field exposure causes a near instantaneous elevation of intracellular calcium, and use of calcium channel blockers cause this, and all other effects, to disappear.

There is also a genetic polymorphism of the VGCC encoding genes that causes them to be overactive, called "Timothy Syndrome". It near universally presents with autistic features. Autism rates are now conservatively estimated at 1 in 43 children.

There are FDA approved devices that use pulsed fields to treat depression. Pulsed fields are being investigated for cancer treatment via their ability to increase BBB permeability. Post-MRI (temprary) remission of severe depression has long been noted, as have working memory deficits and reduction in dendritic arborization / layer V pyramidal cell density with chronic occupational exposure. Exposure however, is no longer occupational. There are few viable controls left.

People want it both ways. You can't have it both ways. Either it does or it doesn't, and it would appear, it definitely does.

>>9058383
>He doesn't understand voltage gated calcium channels, and the structure of their voltage sensing subunits
>He hasn't read the US and Societ literature dating back to the 60's concerning biological effects of static and pulsed microwave fields at thermal and subthermal frequencies
>His knowledge of physics and molecular biology is either at a high school level, or disjointedly biased by his cultural environment

Ironically, it's you who belongs on /x/. You're more or less arguing for something akin to solipsism, parallel reality, or a global conspiracy.
-Expose cell (especially L-type VGCC expressing sort) to pulsed microwave field
-Measure calcium flux
-Note immediately increased intracellular calcium
-Apply VGCC blocker
-All noted downstream effects do no longer occur

This has been repeatedly demonstrated in a number of ways, for decades. And we know a lot about calcium regulated signalling pathways. People who use Wi-Fi, bluetooth, cell phones, whatever, are either ignorant or completely insane.

>>9049002
Soviet, Eastern European, and American research on pulsed and static fields at thermal and subthermal intensities, dating back to the 60's. Compiled by the Navy.
http://idisk.mac.com/magda.havas/Public/Military%20Radiowave.pdf

Bunch of people with names and credentials that aren't Anon on the Internet.
http://www.bioinitiative.org/table-of-contents/

2 Good reviews:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0891061815000599?via%3Dihub
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3780531/

I know anon, it is disappointing that things are more complex than the high school level biology and physics that says microwaves simply turn into heat. Too bad we're electrical and full of avenues for signal transduction of pulsed fields we didn't evolve around, with all those pesky ion channels. But that's just how it is. If you don't want DNA damaged hippocampal stem cells, full and proper dendritic arborization, and to avoid brain damage, you'll just have to go without what the mainstream is doing. If you can. Which you probably can't, because they're everywhere.

Take my advice or slip into stupidity, sterility, cancer, and early onset dementia. Also look up Timothy Syndrome. A genetic polymorphism of the VGCC encoding genes, causing them to be overactive (such as if a pulsed field is interacting with the charge groups that make up its voltage sensing subunit, causing it to activate at improper times and have chronically elevated intracellular Ca2+ which potentiates peroxynitrite formation), literally almost universally presents with autism as well. Which is why even the average individual of a population seems to have the theory of mind of an autistic child half the time, more and more.

Good luck anon. I have a near photographic memory and can recall massive amounts of sensory and abstract context from a given event, inserting myself in it and living it again. My memory is probably better naturally, but your's is still artificially crippled.