/lit/ - Literature

>>21959309
Irrelevant. Keep cry at me because your work is meaningless. You won’t acknowledge anything outside your tiny insignificant points.

So why aren’t you successful anon, if you are so right. When are you going to replace me?

>>21959286
Good mentality. Keep your chin up.

>>21959268
Keep ignoring everything I post to transfix one the one thing you think is right.m

>>21959205
>I don’t know anything about my chosen industry
>I don’t know anything about my wanna be career
>fuck I don’t even know how to write
>hey why am I not published? Why am I not seen? Why am I not heard? I’m good! I’m good!
>hmm.
>must be the Jews! Must be the traditionalists! Must be! Must be! I’m not bad or a fucking idiot!

My fucking Cheeto covered pigfucker, if you think you can do it all, why don’t you? Why aren’t you popular? Why aren’t you successful? It’s so easy, right? Give me the answers I so desperately seek.

Because in all my time, and in all my years being here, I’ve read only about 3 things I’d ever think would get published. Three things that actually don’t consist of the most basal shit, that’s past a third grade reading level. I’ve tried to help said three. I’m still in touch with one.

Everyone else here. Everyone who’s got big bright and amazing ideas…they all fade. They all become irrelevant. I’ve been told I’ll become irrelevant for the last seven years. And ever year, I watch as you all do. As you all fade into nothing.

So if it’s so easy. If you can do it on your own. Show me your work anon. Speak up.

>>21959167
>Hoover
Oh your the obsessed shit heel who’s seething about not being published.

If you want me to illiterate why your retarded, the fifty shades example was made for a specific reason. It’s wasn’t fifty shades when it “found success” online. It was a twilight fan fiction, using trademarked characters that would have gotten her sued thirty times over the more success it had found.

The reason it’s often considered to be an example of publishers taking chances is because she had to chance the core fundamentals of her book. Edward had to become mr. gray. Bella to what’s her face. The setting and the main plot had a reform from vampires and bdsm to an rich bitch office man and bdsm. I know to your pea brain that doesn’t seem like a big change, but it was a massive one. Especially if you looked through her comments at the time, which all loved and adored the fact that it was a fanfic, and that it was about Edward and Bella.


On top of this, fanfiction in general is horrid, and never usually finds commercial success. Fanfic authors have a ton of writing problems that they never grow out of because they sit on established cannon. Not to mention contracts and legal which has to be dealt with.

Your an outsider looking in thinking he’s got the full picture. That it obviously wasn’t an industry taking chance, but it most certainly was. Everyone in the industry knows this. And it paid off. But since you need to be spoken to like a child, what about the hunger games? What about Harry Potter? What about gentleman bastards? What about Percy Jackson? Etc etc etc. All of which got popular, from someone taking a chance.

Once again. Hoover fucking who?

To further nail your ass to the coffin lid, trad publishing has a ton of advantages that you’re missing. Mostly because you don’t do your research, but the best part to me is that you advocate for this idea that ease of access has made it easier for people to be published and find success. And that’s true, but it’s done something you don’t even realize. It’s created such a wide fucking pool, that your totally, utterly, irrelevant. 80% of people think they have a story to tell. Imagine a football field for me, and now imagine that’s 80% filled. That’s your competition. You think you beat out 80% of them? You think your work is the cream of the crop? Not even close.
So how do you differentiate your self? How do you make people see you? Your a malding authors blaming the Jews, how do you find your audience? And how you retain your audience when thousands upon thousands wish to pull their attention.

To give an example, in a different industry, the collapse of the live service model in video games is imminent. Every game now can be live service now, and every game vies for your attention. It demands you play their battle pass, their new event, their best ever season yet. But, an audience, can only devot so much fucking time and attention. Why should I pay you mine?

>>21958592
I use the examples of extremes here because it’s an easy way to illustrate/explain to others the current state of the industry.

Sitting down and explaining the self-pub scam, or how webnovlization is a different medium to that of traditional publishing, or even how the current industry is set up is something most don’t really care to hear about. Besides it’s long form and would take several posts, of which my fingers would rebel against me.
On top of this, many writers have a romanticized view of writing, authorship and publishing. And many don’t do the research necessary to break said views, and instead fall for the pipe dreams like self-publishing. The amount of people calling me a fucking Jew, and how they are gonna be a big self pub start us evidence of this desu.

By showing the highest levels of success one can achieve, it paints a good idea of what is generally something you should be working towards, short hand of course.

But I do agree that walking before running is always important. It’s why I’m constantly screeching about short story writing, chapbooks and other such endeavours to people who want to write the next American novel. It’s also why I preach setting up a fan base, or a community of interested individuals before doing major as well. It’s also why I say don’t quit your day job.

Because the reality is, as you said, most will never make enough to live off their writing. Even prettier, those who make money from Patreon/online self-publishing content, often still have a day job. They just hide it since success breeds success. It’s a pipe dream to say you’d make enough from online content, just as it’s a pipe dream to become the next American author. But I’d argue the latter has a better chance than the former.

But again, I do agree, drawl before you can run.

>>21957598
You need to be like, not a child to post here.

>>21957539
That is a very good question with an unclear answer.

Old heads argue no, and don’t see the reason as to why you would want to hide your name/face anyways. Plus book signings are a cornerstone of marketing. But this mostly is because they are out of touch boomers who lack the understanding of the horrors of the modern world. New heads argue the same thing just opposite direction, as social media presence, parasocial relationships and personal branding is practically a must in this day and age. Besides who wouldn’t want to be famous?

BUT

There are still authors with pen names, who do find success. But they often already have a strong network or good online presence. But more importantly avatar/virtual entertainment is rising and proving successful in other entertainment areas, and I think that success would be found here in the literature world too. You would still need a social media and a following. But its possible it can be done via an avatar or virtual character. How seriously you would be taken is unknown.

It has happened much yet, but I think it’s viable. If you want to be safe, go the pen name route with maybe an AI generated face. Which that btw a hasn’t even been discussed yet. But should work just fine. Avatar stuff is unknown so if you want to play it safe don’t use that yet.

I hope all that makes sense, I’m becoming less coherent

>>21957502
I think you’ve got an interesting idea. And again, building a base before traditional publishing is a really good idea.

I think the biggest caveat to consider is that a web novel and a traditional novel are two different mediums, especially considering your web novel has 400k words. (Split the difference and say your average novel has 100,000 words, you nearly have four books worth.) if/when you adapt to a traditional novel you either have to adapt the works so that 1/4th of your web novel fits neatly into a regular book, (with all the hallmarks of a satisfying conclusion of a first novel). Or you will have to adapt your work to the novel format which means you will essentially be writing it from the ground up again. (You could edit what you have down, but that will take some time and skill.)

And interesting idea might be to have your main web novel be its own series, and then write another new novel, with the same protagonist/world but going on a different adventure.


As for self publishing. I’m usually against it, especially if you already have a following for your webnovel. But if you do go for it, avoid anything where you pay for it to be published. And be prepared to market yourself.

>>21957495
>>21957501
You’re good. Apex magazine pays surprisingly well, especially the podcast feature payout too.

I’d say if your trying to make a living off of only short story publishing, as I say with most things, don’t quit your day job. Takes a mixture of skill, luck and opportunity for these kinds of things to work out, so don’t jump into the deep end without a life jacket.

The key to making a living off it however, would be submitting everywhere. You would need multiple short stories in multiple magazines to keep yourself afloat. As an example, apex there publishes a magazine once every two months it looks like, which means 6 opportunities for payouts. So you need to have stories in other magazines to keep cash flowing.

If you are new to this, and important thing to keep in mind is that you should only submit one story to each magazine at a time. You can’t send your one story to five publishers at once. It has to be one story, one publisher, and then move onto the next if you get rejected. This would mean you need multiple stories on the go. Also make sure to follow their submission instructions to a T. Don’t get disqualified because you forgot to dot your I’s. Also you are going to get a lot of no’s. Do not be discouraged, this is standard and you can’t take it personally.

And no worries, honestly. I show up in these threads (usually drunk) specifically to help people get a start. The process of submissions and publishing are the bread and butter.

>>21957463
Oh and thank you for an actual question that isn’t just some seething level copium.

I’ll add that if you love doing short stories, look into doing a chapbook, and look for a chapbook publisher. Same thing as a mag, but also provides a good amount of street cred publishing wise.

>>21957463
To make pocket change? Absolutely not. Especially since some magazines will even charge you to publish with them/enter into the pool.

However, it is worth doing for exposure reasons, networking reasons, and obviously showing you can work with an editor/publisher. Plus it shows your involved in the industry. That’s looked at favourably.

Combine it with some form of social media and you’ve got a good start.

>>21957415
I’m not sure I agree. It’s happened in western traditional publishing, it’s just not found the same degree of success. KSBD, OJST, LOO and a myriad of others have found some success, and they are “outsiders”. I’d argue the fact that most published work requires authors to have some start online now shows that successful series will find footholds in traditional publishing, it’s just that they have yet to find the same level of success that traditional publish has.

The reason is…unclear at the moment. It’s an interesting debate. Some argue that online web literature has too much of a narrow scope and is formed to fit a niche by need, and as a result will never reach the large audience as some broad appeal is needed. Others have argued that long format web content cannot be adapted to fit various other mediums which causes lack of reach (this is retarded, by the by.) I’ve seen some good arguments however that the movie industry refuses to take chances on web media however, which would limit its reach that way. I think contracts play a large part in it too though, look at wattpad.

The point is it’s a whole ass debate. I submit to you however, good luck being published easternly. The pol nuts think it’s bad here, hooo boy.

Speaking of. Colleen Hoover who?

>>21957388
aww man guess the pro gamers are sexist. You should start an all female league team.

>>21957394
Stay unpublished.

>>21957368
Fiddy shades would not have reached the same amount of success, nor the same audience level without traditional publishing….and it ended up being traditionally published wow big shocker very surprise, many impress.

>>21957371
You are partially correct. Partially.
Trailer trash is nothing, and not what I mean when referring to commercial success. It’s commercially viable, but it is not on the same level hunger games, Harry Potter, gentleman bastards, etc. Fuck not even on the same level as KSBD. Nor as big as the Martian. Whomp whomp. On top of that serialized web fiction is by definition a different medium than traditional publishing.

But if you’ve ever paid attention to my fucking praddlings over the years, you would know that you are fucking correct as shit when it comes to the fact that you need to build an audience before getting published now. It’s what separates people from the crowd, and wether you self publish first, do serialized web fiction, or just have a large Twitter following, it’s what needed nowadays to get published. It’s one of the few metrics which is followed to some degree

>>21957339
Cope.
The point that I’m making is that there is a larger female pool to pull from than male at the moment. We’re talking a fucking 5:1 ratio at least. More female authors means more females published. More females in the industry means more females who get published via networking. The same thing happened when it was male dominated, but I doubt you’d call it sexism then. It’s like decrying that there aren’t enough professional female gamers, when the pool is vastly in favour of nolifer betas grinding out sick dubs, than a female incel who’s better than my boy flower , she probably exists, but she’s drowned out by the sheer volume of also competent male players. Same thing happening here. A ton more female writers who are just as good as you, or better, and so your ass is staying the proverbial pool. Learn to market yourself, or get better.

>>21957354
Wow you cracked the code. Are you published my son?

Explain to me how a publisher chooses whom to publish, and I’ll slap my dick on your face with a response when your done.

Gods these threads are fucking Whiney when compared to several years ago

>>21957306
>>21957336
To add as an after thought, mostly people care about what you write. At least on the smaller end of the publishing spectrum. Good writing thrives there. Larger end/big 5 publishing is all about impressions and pitching. You’ve got to remember your work is being pitted against literal thousands of others, and if you think your the only sole good story, you would be dead wrong. Not to mention that personal taste can go along way too. The general point is that luck plays a major factor, as the pool of writers is so god damned vast. Statistically 80% of people think they have a story. 60% think they could make a good memoir. As a result more and more traditionally “none white” writers are being published since, you know, the fucking pool is big now. And anons like that can’t cope.

As for the idea that traditional publishing is garbage, I counter that by asking you to produce me a self published title that was a commercial success. No, you cannot use the Martian it’s literally the only example.

>>21957306
It’s generally untrue and mostly /pol/ level schizo posting mixed with copium for not getting
published.

While there is some truth that there are now programs/publishers that solely focus on publishing lgbtq, female, poc, etc, authors, it’s by no means the gold standard, or even the norm. You’ve got to remember two things. The first is that publishing, thanks to the internet, is so fucking vast and expansive compared to what it once was that niche publishers that cater only the above can exist without treading on the toes of the big five. (And the big five in no means cater solely to those listen above.) Second, women and the lgbtq make up the biggest demographic in these areas. Statistically most writers are female now. Most who work in the industry are female. And most who read are female. (Though genre breakdown can have make domination). The point is, seeing more female writers shouldn’t be surprising. Same with lgbtq writers.

However he is correct about two things. The first is that anyone can be published. Good or bad. Hack or not. Publishers take chances on anyone since trendcashing doesn’t work well in the industry outside of certain niches. Harry Potter got popular because librarians pushed it. Fifty shades is a twilight fanfic that scratched some fucking itch for middle aged women. Both are middling.

The second truth is that it’s a fuckton easier to be published if you know someone within the industry. Networking is important in this business.


Also what in the fuck happened to this thread, and 4chan in general

I’m in a mood. If you’ve got questions, I’ve got answers. Worked in the industry blah blah. And no, I’m not liable to read your work.

>>21030181
There is no real way to tell. But the general rule is that you should be confident in it, and should have gone through enough proofing that you don’t want to look at it much anymore.

If you are looking for more concrete steps; write you’re book, edit it yourself, get someone to read it, take feed back, edit it again, throw it at an editor/trusted authors, get feed back, edit it again, repeat as many times as needed, then edit on the stylistic level, then finally copy edit it.

Then start browsing agents.

>>21030062
The whole “muh gatekeep” shit is retarded. I know you Zoomers and Boomers don’t know your fucking history from your taint, but come the fuck on. We literally live in an age with the easiest access to writing/publishing, with the easiest ability to be published. You do realize that right?

For many years the written word was nothing something that most had access to. Many were fucking illiterate to begin with. But those that could read and write often only did so in an official capacity. You’re average plebeian wouldn’t have that access to that shit since it was so expensive. This is generally the trend from cuneiform to veal bound books.

Then the printing press hit. Sure it increased the prevalence of the published word, but do you think Joe Schmo had access to it? Fuck no. It was mostly the rich and the upper class that could afford to be published with it. Even all the way into the 1900s were the rich the only ones published. The industrial revolution shook things up quite a bit but not enough. It changed around the Great Depression era however. But typewriters and large printing capabilities were still locked behind those with (some) money.

The internet changed all that and now you can publish your schizophrenic post online for free. Like Jesus fuck. You have so many more options now a days than you would have even 40 years ago. Get bent with that shit.

>and why is gatekeeping
Because way more than half of what is written is pure trash. Garbage. 86% of people think they can write a book. You think they can? Fuck no.

>>21029903
Go back to /pol/ you fucking waste of a yardarm. You don’t get published for a myriad of reasons, least of all because of these people. And even if you were upset at it, go make you’re own press than you hoser. Go sell chapbooks and zines and do something with yourself. Or, bitch out and become a laughing stock with a vanity press.

Gate keep this ass

>>21029528
I think the biggest thing I can rant about is how lit majors are totally different from writers. It doesn’t matter how often lit/English majors become writers, I just find them to be a different breed.

They almost always, for whatever reason, become obsessed with shit like passive vs active voice, what the author is trying to say, how something is delivered, the optics of something, etc etc. This has to be because they are taught via others works, and taught how to break them down/how to critique them, without really writing it themselves. As a result you get really weird writers who never really make it. And they just suck to talk to.
Not that I have anything against them.

The best way to learn to write is to write and then be critiqued man

If you have questions about the industry and how much it fucking sucks, I’m here to answer it. I’ve worked in the industry etc etc and no I’m not reading your shit I don’t even get paid to do that

>>19769177
Starting with smaller publishers/chapbooks and literary magazines is always the best starting place. It gives you small connections but also shows you are actively interested in the industry itself. Also also it shows that you are publishable and able to work with editors rather well. I’d also say go to events, but pandemic has kind of screwed that.

Another thing to do is build a base. Get a twitter following, or instagram, etc. get people interested so that you can show numbers to publishers.

As for getting an agent, get someone who believes in your work. Don’t settle for less. I know that sounds big novel types but that’s what you should regardless of position.