/SWTG/ Start with the Greeks: Day One

[Anonymous No.9006868]

Welcome to the first Start with the Greeks thread. This group will cover the literature, history, and mythology of ancient Greece. Day 1 starts today, January 22.

The first reading:
>Anthology of Classical Myth (ACM), Note to Students. pp. xvi-xxiii
>Edith Hamilton. Mythology, Introduction. pp. 1-20

>ebooks of all texts and readings
https://mega.nz/#F!tRdWHJYY!_3uUYqfzqIpRpVN2l8XNVw

Required texts. If you want to buy a couple books for this group, these are the ones to get.
>The Iliad
>The Odyssey
>Sarah B. Pomeroy. A Brief History of Ancient Greece: A Political, Social, and Cultural History
>Any edition, and either the full one or the Brief one

Optional texts:
>Stephen Trzaskoma. Anthology Of Classical Myth: Primary Sources in Translation (ACM)
>Edith Hamilton. Mythology

Image is from http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/works-of-art/14.130.14/

[Anonymous No.9006871]

The average daily reading load is about 30 pages. There will be catch-up days throughout, and the pace is subject to change.

If some of the content doesn't interest you, you are free to skip it. If you don't need a history of Ancient Greece, skip the history bits. If you don't need an introduction to Greek Mythology, skip the readings from Edith Hamilton's Mythology.

[Anonymous No.9006878]

Greeks stole their culture and history from Turks, the true creators of civilization. Start With The Turks! SWTS! Turk master race!

[Anonymous No.9006949]

>>9006878
dude the """Turks""" weren't even Turks then. The Anatolians were primarily Indo-European with some Hattian mixed in, no serious Semitic or Turkic muddying.

Fuck off lmao.

[Anonymous No.9006953]

>>9006949
Uhh the Ancient Egyptians were turkish.

[Anonymous No.9006956]

>>9006953
>the ancient egyptians
just stop right there i've seen everyone from white nats (muh R1b), to niggers (we wuz kangs) claim they were Egyptians. I wasn't even talking about the Egyptians. the Hittites were completely different.

[Anonymous No.9006996]

>>9006937
It's an issue of arete (loosely, "virtue") and the effects of devoutly and completely adhering to it in human life. Achilles seems extreme to us because he's the embodiment of a pagan ideal which may seem more familiar if considering the Christian counterpart in (excuse the comparison) Christ, who suffered whatever he had to suffer for his total piety (a christian parallel of sorts to arete).

>>9006947
>in the Odyssey he is someone to admire

Arguable. His shifty nature is, if not outright scorned, at least disputed for its worth in a culture at least purporting to be based in honor. See the very tongue in cheek "praise" of Odysseus in Plato's "Hippias Minor," which elicits horror from Socrates' listeners when he suggests Odysseus might be a match for Achilles.

>Achilles in the Iliad is not somebody to admire
Absolutely wrong. He's the perfect embodiment of arete, of winning glory at the sacrifice of life, of virtue over convenience, etc.

>Heracles
You're kind of right. Remember that of the great Greek heroes (Heracles, Theseus), Heracles is still the "strong" one and Theseus the "smart" one. Also note how much more attention Heracles gets in comparison with Theseus.

>In short, Homer is providing (and very likely reflecting) moral values through them being personified.
This is correct. Your interpretations of the personalities are a bit rusty, but you definitely have the right idea.

>Zeus
As an interesting aside, Zeus DID fear overthrow, but a strong son was just a symptom of more general Fate, which rules even the (hardly permanently empowered) gods, according to Aeschylus (prometheus bound: "Do you think I will crouch before your Gods,—so new—and tremble?")

>Who then is the steersman of necessity?
>The triple-formed Fates and the remembering Furies.
>Is Zeus weaker than these?
>Yes, for he, too, cannot escape what is fated.

>>9006969
You're right about Achilles being praised for his actions, but I'm not sure it's for his kindness to Priam. Maybe that's why Zeus honored Achilles, but was it the honor of Zeus or men that Achilles sought at Troy? He knew he would die in exchange for eternal fame, but fame in whose eyes?

>>9006986
>the Iliad ,may be a bit too much for a seven year old.
>not learning homeric greek to read it to your infant son
>not starting your kids with the greeks

[Anonymous No.9007007]

>>9006996
>You're right about Achilles being praised for his actions, but I'm not sure it's for his kindness to Priam

If you have Fagles' translation, check out XXIV.135-46 which, as I mentioned, has Zeus saying that he will now give glory to Achilles:

“I will grant Achilles glory and so safeguard
your awe and love of me for all the years to come.
Go at once to the camp, give your son this order:
tell him the gods are angry with him now
and I am rising over them all in deathless wrath
that he in heartsick fury still holds Hector’s body,
there by his beaked ships, and will not give him back—
perhaps in fear of me he’ll give him, back at once.
Then, at the same time, I am winging Iris down
to greathearted Priam, commanding the king
to ransom his dear son, to go to Achaea’s ships,
bearing gifts to Achilles, gifts to melt his rage.”

The fame is intended to be fame among men and gods so that they (the hero) can live on after their death.

[Anonymous No.9007026]

Thanks for this /lit/! Omw to patrician lifestyle.

[Anonymous No.9007035]

Came here to laugh at you faggots

[Anonymous No.9007048]

>>9007007
I'm not trying to be obstinate, but I'm not sure the glory is for the kindness. It seems to me that the glory is for his deeds in war; the kindness allows the gods' anger over his excesses in abusing Hector to be lifted. Only when that anger is removed can he enjoy the rewards of his fame, which, I think, his deeds have already won for him.

Does that make sense? From the passage you gave, it looks like Zeus is acknowledging Achilles has already done great things, but cannot be given the glory for them if he continues tainting his deeds with keeping Hector's body.

> I am rising over them all in deathless wrath that he in heartsick fury still holds Hector’s body

Doesn't look to me like he's glorifying Achilles for giving up the corpse; that's just something that needs to be taken care of so Achilles can get out of the doghouse.

[Anonymous No.9007062]

>>9006878
...aaaaand we're off to a great start.

[Anonymous No.9007380]

I haven't read yet, will post later

[Anonymous No.9007392]

So in the introduction to her book, Hamilton talks about how the Greeks were the first people to create their gods in their own images and compares this specifically to Egyptian and Mesopotamian myth. But there are clearly human gods in both of those.
Is she bullshitting to strengthen her point about the Greeks being the first civilised and rational people or am I missing something?

[Anonymous No.9007464]

>>9007392
I think she means that Greek gods had imperfections, human feelings and passions, and they lived in the same realm humans live. It wasn't just a matter of physical appearance.

[Anonymous No.9007562]

I've read:
>Mythology (Hamilton)
>History (Pomeroy)
>Iliad (Lattimore)
>Odyssey (Lattimore)
>Pre-Socratics (Waterfield)
>Herodotus (Waterfield)
>Thucydides (Hammond)
>Ovid
>Nietzsche's early stuff (classical lectures/essays)

Not sure about following the schedule for some re-reading, or to just continue with my own and plug the gaps.

[Anonymous No.9007585]

>>9006868
Hey, haven't read any of this. I'll try to keep up with these threads and I hope you continue making them

[Anonymous No.9008034]

>>9007048
I agree that only when Achilles' anger is removed he is permitted to enjoy the rewards of his fame, and I agree that his deeds (killing Hector, past successes in battle, nobility towards suppliants) have given him glory already. However, I disagree that the kindness he shows to Priam does not also include the giving up of Hector's body. The main thing in that quote I posted is that Zeus says he will grant Achilles glory, and then the only major actions after that involving Achilles are Priam coming to his hut, both of them crying (the final cooling of his anger), and Achilles giving up the body of Hector. So either Achilles is not given his glory in the end of the Iliad, or Zeus decided that the real glory was for Achilles to come back down to the human level, which is supported by him, after abstaining from it since Patroclus' death, eating, sleeping with a woman, and accepting a suppliant's ransom.

That's how I see it, anyway. Please let me know how you feel about it.

[Anonymous No.9008046]

What are the chances this goes the way of Infinite Summer every year and ends within a week?

[Anonymous No.9008055]

i'm a bit unsure of the distinction between greek mythology and greek religion. have i got the right idea in thinking that in both using the same gods, greek mythology attempted to explain how the universe and elements of it came about, while religion sought to teach them how they should live?

[Anonymous No.9008144]

I finished mythology part one that was quite tedious to read. Not sure if i should just skip the rest and read wikipedia if i want to more details

[Anonymous No.9008182]

>>9007562
Why don't you follow along with the threads and ask us good discussion questions informed from your readings?

[Anonymous No.9008191]

were the geeks really child fucking scumbags?

is there anything wrong with what the did?

just some questions to make your noodle spoodle

[Anonymous No.9008206]

>>9006868
Quality thread OP.

[Anonymous No.9008250]

>>9008182
Because the OP's claim to being a teacher is dubious. And this anachronistic, linear format that is constantly fizzling out (Infinite Summer): we're a real-time web forum, not a women's library group.

>There is a certain kind of thoroughness which is but the excuse for inactivity. Think of what Goethe understood about antiquity: certainly not as much as any classicist, and yet quite enough to enable him to engage in fruitful struggle with it. One -should- not, in fact, know more about a thing than one can oneself digest creatively. Moreover the only means of truly understanding something is one's attempt to -do- it. Let us try to live in the manner of the ancients – and we shall instantly come a hundred miles closer to them than with all our learnedness. Our classicists nowhere demonstrate that they somehow strive to vie with antiquity; that is why -their- antiquity is without any effect on the contemporary.
-Nietzsche

OP has no goal or purpose, doesn't display any selectivity, excerpting or interpretation. He has simply compiled a list of corpses that we should look at from head to foot, over and over again. Instead he could have used links, ebooks (with completeness), images, video, memes. He could have lead (read: tripcoded, evidence of knowledge and fluency) the readings instead of leaving it to anonymity and chaos.

This is just a poor mishmash of university and leisurely reading. A failure at both.

[Anonymous No.9008276]

Is there a better alternative too Hamilton?

I tried reading it twice and stopped around 100 pages because it's so fucking dull to read.

[Anonymous No.9008293]

>>9008276
I'm the guy re-reading her and if anything I thought her prose was nice. Especially compared to more recent academics who are afraid of sounding too biased or emotional.

Or do you mean the translations were boring?

[Anonymous No.9008405]

>>9008250
There was a group that was attempting to read through the western canon like 1 or 2 years ago which was led by a very dedicated and knowledgeable tripfag, but it still failed. It is all about how much are people willing to participate, not about who created it.

[Anonymous No.9008490]

>>9007392
Three things. One, it's a generalization for lay people. Two, much like Greek religion, Egyptian religion changed significantly over thousands of years, including the conversion of previously animal-based gods into humanized ones where they just stick the animal head onto a human. And three, most of them are never human like in Greece which I think is her main point. The Greek gods are very human both in their appearance (which I think is what you're focusing on) and in their behavior. This is what is unique to the Greek religion.

It is generally understood by historians that Greeks are more rational than the Sumerians or Egyptians. In many respects they are more civilized in that their accomplishments show a greater curiosity and focus on empiricism, far more than Egypt which was content with barely any innovations in art or technology for thousands of years.

[Anonymous No.9008513]

>>9007562
You're pretty far ahead, but it's probably worth your while to take a look at the schedule and just read the things you missed. You can also participate in the discussion threads.

>>9008250
I am new OP, not old OP. Old OP was teacher. I am not and have never claimed to be.

>>9008046
Pretty low, so join in!

>>9008144
>>9008276
If you didn't enjoy it, I recommend switching to the Handbook of Classical Mythology. It's a great text and I plan to pull some excerpts from it. I honestly wasn't sure if I wanted to go with the Handbook or Edith Hamilton's, but I went with hers because more people probably have it and it's aimed at more casual readers. You could also check out Greek Mythology: An Introduction by Fritz Graf. It's a popular text for university classes as well.

Two other classics in the field:
>G.S. Kirk. The Nature of Greek Myths
>G.S. Kirk. Myth: Its meaning and functions in ancient and other cultures

[Anonymous No.9008562]

Thank you for this, OP. I´ll be lurking, since I´m just ignorant.

[Anonymous No.9008628]

>>9006871
Why is the introduction to the illiad scheduled after the work itself?

[Anonymous No.9008671]

All of you fags should watch this series for a start:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcwsDcXeW7g&list=PLAoVp7qvZKP4YWyrMWAUVTaBaCIVzyOPD

[Anonymous No.9008687]

>>9008191

>were the geeks really child fucking scumbags?

yes

>is there anything wrong with what the did?

no

[Anonymous No.9008714]

>>9007040
So, what you are saying is that presocratic philosophy is rooted on eastern thought as far as their inquiry on the origins of the universe? Even though, if I recall correctly from very imperfect knowledge of eastern conceptions at the time (talking about pre-Sixth Century B.C.), cultures aside from the greeks' were heavily dependent on an absolute leader and his legitimacy conferred by gods, on conformity upon the existing order and their current social-economical-ethnic position.
From all this, it seems to me improbable that presocratic thought should have derived from them, although it is true most of the philosophers then came from Asia Minor.
This is what seems to me, but tell me if I am making false claims or wrong.

>>9008055
Hamilton does say at the start that there is a difference between myth and religion, since, in Greek Mythology, you can see very unimportant gods and godesses. For example, Hera, who doesn't play such an important role on stories of mythology, she is venerated at home, as married women turned to her for help. As such, religion played on gods as long as they were venerated, but it didn't mean that Zeus, for example, had colorful stories about his infidelity and they were told either for entertainment or tradition. Myths were then not necessarily cannon to praise gods nor needed to understand them.

[Anonymous No.9008774]

>>9007392
I remember being confused by a lot of stuff in the introduction to mythology, specifically how she pointed out that the greek myths didn't feature ghosts, despite like 50 percent of Greek tragedy and both homeric epics having ghosts.

[Anonymous No.9008824]

I previously tried reading the Iliad but gave up because the writing style was difficult to take in naturally. When I read I don't want to have to slow down to be able to process all the information.

I feel like the book is best read as intended, in Greek (or Latin) and since I cannot speak those I just decided that reading ancient classics was just not for me. The hexameter for example translates poorly into English. I also was confused by how men and gods are both featured as regular characters due to the fact it's a mythic story.

Take the first chapter, where Apollo is requested to rain arrows on Agamemnons army which is subsequently destroyed. What is happening here? (rhetorical question, but still. A Plague? Actual battle? Storm?)

Does anyone else feel that way? I hope that by following this 'class' with other /lit/izens I can finally ascend pleb-tier reading and become Well Read. Sorry for the blogpost.

[Anonymous No.9008889]

>>9008824
I've never felt that way reading Greek stuff. You just get used to it after reading enough.

[Anonymous No.9009048]

>>9006868
>Optional texts:
>Edith Hamilton. Mythology

[Anonymous No.9009124]

>>9008628
probably because the Introduction is riddled with spoilers and things that would only be beneficial if you had read the work. I've had this happen a few times.

[Anonymous No.9009160]

>>9006868
that d/l link doesn't seem to work for me, anybody know why or has an alternative?

[Anonymous No.9009187]

>>9009160
Everything that was in the folder:
http://www1.zippyshare.com/v/qRWAKFuU/file.html

[Anonymous No.9009219]

>>9009187
That just takes me on endless pages requesting to d/l extension, which doesn't let me download after I've done it. Thanks for the effort though.

[Anonymous No.9009233]

I feel stupid asking this but will this be a daily or weekly thread?

[Anonymous No.9009242]

>>9009219
How are people this fucking retarded. How do they exist in society. How did they manage to find 4chan.

Just kys anon. There's no hope for you.

[Anonymous No.9009254]

>>9009242
And why is that?..

[Anonymous No.9009261]

>>9009242
You offered no reasons and just spewed out negativity. Says a lot about the type of person you are.

[Anonymous No.9009291]

>>9009219
Did you press the large orange button labeled "download now"/ do you have adblock

[Anonymous No.9009300]

>>9009291
Yeah, I have adblock. But after trying several times it eventually let me through. Thanks for the effort.

[Anonymous No.9009377]

>>9008513
I really appreciate your enthusiasm, OP. You're doing a good job.

[Anonymous No.9009416]

>>9006878

[Anonymous No.9009684]

>>9006868
I was waiting for this, I heard the voice of faith calling me to come to this board.

[Anonymous No.9009797]

>>9008774
I believe what she meant is there are no ghosts who are there with the purpose to scare, just like witches, where she even provides examples, this is to strengthen her theory that the myths of Greece are ones of beauty and not of horror.

[Anonymous No.9010044]

I did the two readings for the day. Combined, they gave a nice timeline of names and literary trends that helped me synchronized things I've only heard of out of context. Both authors stressed the importance of early, primary sources and cautioned against reading too hard into later interpretations of myths.

[Anonymous No.9011054]

>>9006868
>>9006871
Is it a waste of time to read past part one of Mythology other than the Trojan War Prologue?

[Anonymous No.9011117]

>>9011054
Sorta. The group is going to go over a number of the primary sources used by later chapters, so it will be a spoiler and just a summary. But some of the chapters have rarer stories we won't cover, or include synthesis of sources we won't cover.

At this point I'd say if you have extra time to devote to a book on Mythology, start reading from the Handbook of Classical Mythology or Greek Mythology: An Introduction by Fritz Graf.

Or take a look at:
>G.S. Kirk. The Nature of Greek Myths
>G.S. Kirk. Myth: Its meaning and functions in ancient and other cultures

[Anonymous No.9011295]

I started about a week ago and am not following the schedule, but I really enjoy seeing such knowledgeable anons in this thread.
I am reading the Oxford Brief history, and want to clarify a few points that I think I understand

>OG Aegeans 40,000 years ago
>Crete doing its own thing
>Indo-Europeans come in and bring ancient Greek and fuse with Aegeans eventually
>Minoans form (take over?) on Crete
>Mycenaeans form from Indo/Aegean mainlanders
>Mycenaeans go to Crete and take it from Minoans

Is that right? I am trying to distinguish between Minoans, Mycenaeans, Aegeans, and Indos.

[Anonymous No.9011327]

>>9011295
Fuck, maybe? I've read a ton of the greeks and can safely say you will not be remembering those kinds of details unless you stick with this time period in an actual academic environment, as your thesis or master's topic. It's definitely good to understand what's going on as best as possible while you read, but know that these details (especially places, names, most dates, and certainly prehistory) will fall away in due time.

Keep in mind that that's okay, and actually a good thing; you don't need to remember those details, and really have no use for them. It'll take a few weeks/months with the Greeks to get comfortable with this idea, but you'll soon see that the big ideas, the ones that you should and will remember, are much more general and don't depend on names, dates, etc., which are ultimately just trivia. The real lessons you learn will rise above the details of historical setting, and will thereby be able to inform you as you read history/literature from any time period and any region, not just classical Greece. So for example, you may forget the relevant geographies of the Greco-Persian wars described in Herodotus, but you won't forget that the Greeks fought against seemingly impossible odds for the sake of liberty. That seems fairly unimportant at first glance, except that you've just witnessed the first instance in historical writing of the human themes of innate desire of liberty, of preferring good death to shameful life, etc., which will recur in almost every military/political history from then on, and will, by many ancient writers, be considered constants of the human condition.

You'll still recall the broad strokes of the Greek stories themselves, just don't sweat the small stuff. But again, coming to realize what is and isn't necessary to recall is a big part of what "starting with the Greeks" teaches, and is something everyone needs to go through on their own.

PS Fuck prehistory. Boring as shit. Slog through it to set the stage for classical Greece, and then enjoy the ride.

[Anonymous No.9011363]

>>9011327
Thank you anon. That takes pressure of of trying to remember details of this book. I think I am so accustomed to having to remember facts and fill out study guides for classes in my head that I am not sure how to study outside of a class for personal fulfillment.

The only reason I'm particularly concerned with understanding this time period is so I get a feel for the time periods of Homer's stuff.

I will try to understand the 'why' and its implications more, as you're suggesting.

[Anonymous No.9011378]

>>9011363
Yeah you're on the right track, and there isn't too much to learn about Homer's times, so no sweat there.

>I will try to understand the 'why' and its implications more

And to tag onto that, this may seem obvious if you have background reading history, but keep in mind the difference between "causes" and "pretexts" of events, with probably the most obvious modern example being the death of Franz Ferdinand not really "causing" but still kicking off WWI. I didn't really notice the distinction for a while, and taking stock of it helped clear up a lot of stuff, especially when you get to Thucydides and start reading more about diplomacy.

Hope I helped; best of luck!

[Anonymous No.9011394]

What would you read after the Greeks

[Anonymous No.9011420]

>>9011394
R O M A N S

They are very different but very, very fun. Their philosophy is generally agreed to be inferior, but they offer a lot more in terms of political history, and are much more relatable to modern institutions of law and government.

[Anonymous No.9011495]

>>9009416
Not that Anon but holy shit my roots are of Greeks if that pic isn't a troll.

[Anonymous No.9011576]

DAY 2

>Poll (take pls)
https://www.strawpoll.me/12177364

Reading
>Edith Hamilton. Mythology. pp. 21-40
>Pomeroy. A Brief History of Ancient Greece, Introduction. pp. 1-11

[Anonymous No.9011616]

>>9006868
Can one directly jump to the Iliad to get into the greeks?

[Anonymous No.9011624]

>>9011616
No.

[Anonymous No.9011640]

>>9011624
Why?

[Anonymous No.9011642]

>>9011616
Yeah you'll be fine. There's a bit of mythology that you probably won't be familiar with when beginning, but you're probably at least vaguely familiar with the personalities of the main gods, and will have no trouble figuring out what's going on. >>9011624 is just being difficult.

[Anonymous No.9011650]

>>9011642
>but you're probably at least vaguely familiar with the personalities of the main gods
Yea, I am not entirely but pretty much. Have also seen Clash of Titans and couple of Greek movies and have read a lot of Wonder Women comics in the past.

[Anonymous No.9011657]

This is only kind of related but it was prompted by the readings and I hadn't thought about it before. How did the Romans adopt Greek religion and synthesize it with their own so thoroughly and so early on? I know there have been Greek settlements in southern Italy since before the Roman literary record starts. Still seems extraordinary. As far as I know the Italic peoples and the Greeks aren't so closely related that they would have had such similar cultures before contact, no more than the Italic peoples and the Gauls?

[Anonymous No.9011670]

30 pages a day seems somewhat doable. I've only read Hamilton's Mythology, but the Greeks is definitely something I want to get a better understanding of.

Was reading The Trojan War: A New History before the Illiad considered?

[Anonymous No.9011680]

>>9011650
It sounds silly when you put it like that, but yeah you'll be okay. The only thing that might not be immediately apparent is that the gods have "picked sides" for the fight, which is why they are supporting different factions/heroes.

>>9011657
The ancient world thought the Romans were literally descended from Trojans, who were thought by at least some to be Greek colonists (the main premise of the Roman histories of Dionysius of Halicarnassus is aiming to prove that the Romans who ruled the Greek world in his time were no "barbarians," but were really Greeks who had colonized Troy, and then moved to Italy with Aeneas). The legend of Aeneas according to Diodorus (not sure if this part is in the Aeneid, but definitely in the general legend) entails that he literally "carried off his household gods" when departing Troy and starting the journey that would eventually bring him to Italy.

Now, that's not "true" and certainly isn't the modern historical answer. Honestly I have no idea how it actually happened that the Roman pantheon adopted the Greek one, beyond the legendary inheriting of it which the Romans considered to be their cultural foundation. But at least that's how they saw things.

>since before the Roman literary record

Eh, this can never be sure evidence. There is VERY little "old latin." Almost everything we have is from the 1st century BC onwards, and Rome was (supposedly) founded in 753BC. And although "Rome" didn't enter international consciousness until the mid 3rd century BC (first Punic war; first overseas military engagement for Rome), there was certainly contact between Greece and Rome before then; Pythagoreans were noted in Italy in the 5th century BC, and there was almost certainly earlier contact.

But yeah, I have no idea how and how early they first contacted and shared religious traditions. It does seem remarkable that Rome would basically "copy" Greece, and that hints heavily towards the legendary Greek ancestry of Rome, which we nowadays know is false.

[Anonymous No.9011684]

>>9011657
This is explained in the readings btw.

The Indo-Europeans brought with them the main proto-Greek gods when they settled in Rome. The sky-father (Zeus/Jupiter) existed in Indo-European religion and so during the Indo-European migrations to Greece and Rome they continued their belief in it.

The other part is that the Roman gods were much mere religious-based and they didn't have much mythological narrative if at all to them. You prayed to them to get things done, but they didn't go on adventures like the Greek ones did. So this made it easy for them to combine because they were sorta a blank slate.

[Anonymous No.9011709]

>>9011670
The Trojan War: A New History is a pop history polemical, so I don't think it really fits with the academic focus of the group.

Check the review https://www.jstor.org/stable/25691295
I can upload a PDF of the review if you like.

[Anonymous No.9011732]

Should I buy "The Classical Tradition" by Grafton et al.? It looks like a great book, and it's pretty cheap too (for its size).

[Anonymous No.9011762]

>>9006868
La Tepiteada (The Tepitiad)?
Anyone?

[Anonymous No.9012071]

Reading the introduction of A Brief History of Ancient Greece got me thinking. Were there significant discoveries of writing in the last few centuries? Do we have access now to material that, say, Shakespeare did not have?

[Anonymous No.9012628]

If you think that Achilles is "unlikeable" or "childish" or "petty" you don't understand the poem.

The Greeks did not see him that way at all. The Greeks knew he was the hero of the work.

Anybody reading the Iliad should chew that over.

[Anonymous No.9012724]

>>9012628
>several generations and city-states all thought the same thing

[Anonymous No.9012743]

>>9012724
They literally did, you dip.

[Anonymous No.9012827]

>>9006949
modern turks are still indo europeans for the most part, turkic/east asian admixture is miniscule

[Anonymous No.9012831]

>>9011709
Fair! I don't know much about the work, but that is a bit disappointing to learn.

I'd love a PDF of the review, if that's not too much effort.

[Anonymous No.9012838]

>>9011709

>The Trojan War: A New History

I've been fairly disappointed, lots of interesting info inbetween retelling of the Iliad as if it was an actual bronze age war. Basically too poppy.

He talks about how the style of the poetry has parallels in bronze age texts from Egypt etc. but quotes hardly any.

[Anonymous No.9013006]

I thought it was interesting to look at the Titans and see which concepts were worthy of inclusion at the first round, so to speak. Notably, I thought, were Mnemosyne and Hyperion. Also, the Titans had different fates within mythology, some being seen more as gods than others. I wonder if it is known whether there was a time when the Titans were revered but the gods had not yet been conceived of, or if they their conceptions were interspersed.

On the gods, It was interesting that some preferred certain cities, and each had a specific domain where they could be found. Also that the gods held human traits, both positive and negative. It must have made them very relatable to a person of the time, and seems conducive to "folk religion" and more individual religious experiences. It is interesting to me because this is not found as much in later, more organized and authoritarian religions, where deities tend to be more divine and impersonal, thereby requiring the church as a middleman.

It would be interesting for me to know the degree to which the gods played a role in peoples everyday lives, how they were referenced culturally, venerated, made fun of, etc. Were there people at the time who just saw them as characters in stories, or was belief more literal? (This was touched on regarding Mount Olympus transitioning from an actual place to a more abstract location).

[Anonymous No.9013041]

>>9013006

>I thought it was interesting to look at the Titans and see which concepts were worthy of inclusion at the first round, so to speak. Notably, I thought, were Mnemosyne and Hyperion. Also, the Titans had different fates within mythology, some being seen more as gods than others. I wonder if it is known whether there was a time when the Titans were revered but the gods had not yet been conceived of, or if they their conceptions were interspersed.

I wonder about that a lot too. I don't think it's a settled question since there's not that much evidence to go on. People say the Titans were the pre-Greek religion in that area but the Titans mostly have Greek names, while there are gods in the Olympian pantheon that are not Greek at all.

>Also that the gods held human traits, both positive and negative. It must have made them very relatable to a person of the time, and seems conducive to "folk religion" and more individual religious experiences.

This is another thing I've wondered about a lot but have never had answered. I'm not sure to what extent everyday pagans had religious experiences. So much of the religion is about maintaining these binds with heaven, but not with higher morality or mysticism or philosophy or anything we associate with religion. But people do write about piety and reverence. It's just very hard to know what they mean by it. Would a pagan walk around thinking in their heads 'I love Aphrodite!' and praying and stuff the way a Christian might with God? I have no idea.

>Were there people at the time who just saw them as characters in stories, or was belief more literal?

Both views were around. Some people definitely thought the gods were totally real, some people thought they were metaphors of deeper truths, and some people didn't really believe in them at all - and often still sacrificed to them anyway.

[Anonymous No.9013114]

just reading hamilton where she mentions how dreams ascended from the underworld and how there were both true and false dreams.
did the greeks take their dreams seriously and try to interpret them?

[Anonymous No.9013142]

>>9006868
The only thing I really learned from Homer's tales is that ancient greeks were morally bankrupt. There are many examples to choose from.

>Your wealth is taken or used up in a frivolous manner? Rape and pillage a neighboring city. Still not enough? Tax the commoners to pay for that lavish feast you had.

[Anonymous No.9013201]

>>9013142
I feel like this goes along with them being human and sharing our foibles. Just look at Republicans

[Anonymous No.9013211]

>>9013142
>>9013201
>anachronistic moralizing
Plebs.

[Anonymous No.9013315]

Hamilton talked about how in Greek mythology the Gods were not regarded as the omnipotent creators of the universe, but in fact, they were themselves creatures created by the universe. Besides Fate which she talks about, could it be that Gaea and Uranus are the two strongest beings in the universe.

Also, I found it quite weird that Athena was not born, but just sprung out of Zeus's head, is this meant to indicate her being born out of his wisdom, which would be logical seeing that she was venerated as the goddess of wisdom.

Another thing I noted which is not at all related to the Greeks is that Hamilton described Thrace as "home of rude, fierce people". I find this statement to be a bit inaccurate, in the sense that it might give a flawed understanding of who the Thracians were. While it is true that they were considered barbaric by both Romans and Greeks and they did their share of warfare, they were not a bunch of rude wildlings living in caves, they were quite civilized. In fact the oldest piece of gold to be shaped by human hands has been identified as Thracian and is dated as far as back as the 4th milennia BC.

[Anonymous No.9013364]

>>9013315
>I find this statement to be a bit inaccurate, in the sense that it might give a flawed understanding of who the Thracians were. While it is true that they were considered barbaric by both Romans and Greeks and they did their share of warfare, they were not a bunch of rude wildlings living in caves, they were quite civilized. In fact the oldest piece of gold to be shaped by human hands has been identified as Thracian and is dated as far as back as the 4th milennia BC.
Your inference is even more inaccurate. We know that the Near East was the cradle of Western Civilisation, that doesn't stop it from being a shithole today.

[Anonymous No.9013431]

>>9013041
>This is another thing I've wondered about a lot but have never had answered. I'm not sure to what extent everyday pagans had religious experiences. So much of the religion is about maintaining these binds with heaven, but not with higher morality or mysticism or philosophy or anything we associate with religion. But people do write about piety and reverence. It's just very hard to know what they mean by it. Would a pagan walk around thinking in their heads 'I love Aphrodite!' and praying and stuff the way a Christian might with God? I have no idea.

The readings mention of prayers for sailors suggest a little bit of the kind of internal dialogue you see in modern Christianity. I was not imagining religious practice like that until I came across that though. Rather I was imagining an appreciation for natural beauty say, in the forest, and linking that to the god or demigod associated with that domain, like Pan and the Dryads. Maybe that inspired you sing a tune. That sort of thing.

>Both views were around. Some people definitely thought the gods were totally real, some people thought they were metaphors of deeper truths, and some people didn't really believe in them at all - and often still sacrificed to them anyway.

Thank you, that is very interesting.

[Anonymous No.9013438]

>>9013142

You're pretty shallow, maybe you should stick to computer games.

>>9013315

>Besides Fate which she talks about, could it be that Gaea and Uranus are the two strongest beings in the universe.

Nah Zeus is.

>>9013364

And you're ignorant as shit, pic related. I'm not getting into the debate about whether Thracians were "civilized" or not unless someone decides what they mean by that term, but if you're going to take treasure into account, this is from the 5th century BC. They were uncivilized in the sense that they didn't have a written literature etc but they weren't cannibals with bones sticking out of their noses or something either. That's all he was saying but you just had to have your .02, which was completely pointless and wrong.

[Anonymous No.9013444]

>>9012071
Yes, tons. Shakespeare died in 1616. Discoveries after him:

>The Epic of Gilgamesh
>the plays of Menander (Dyskolos, Samia, Perikeiromene) found in 1907
>Gospel of Thomas 1945
>Oxyrhynchus Papyri
>every piece of Ancient Egyptian literature that was written in hieroglyphics (deciphered in 1822)

[Anonymous No.9013452]

>>9012831
>The Trojan War: A New History Review
http://docdro.id/VFs2dJz

[Anonymous No.9013500]

>>9009233
I imagine like with w&p it'll be a case of starting a new thread when this one reaches limit

[Anonymous No.9013516]

>>9013431
>>9013041
>Would a pagan walk around thinking in their heads 'I love Aphrodite!' and praying and stuff the way a Christian might with God?
Yes. They would pray, sing, devote sacrifices to, tell stories about, and participate in extravagant rituals to gain sway with the gods. They also held ritualized festivals in their honor.

On Day 8 we are reading the Cambridge Companion to Ancient Mediterranean Religions' entry for Greece which should explain things better.

[Anonymous No.9013548]

>>9013114
I believe so. Interpretation of dreams is present in both Iliad and Odyssey.

[Anonymous No.9013583]

>>9006871
where should todays reading take me up to in mythology? it says pg 40, but the page count on my computer varies depending on the window size

[Anonymous No.9013591]

>>9013583
I just read the first chapter which discusses the twelve Olympians and the lesser deities and assumed that was all the reading.

[Anonymous No.9013675]

>>9013315
>Also, I found it quite weird that Athena was not born, but just sprung out of Zeus's head, is this meant to indicate her being born out of his wisdom, which would be logical seeing that she was venerated as the goddess of wisdom.

That's an interesting thought. Not Greek, but something similar happens in Paradise Lost, where Sin springs from Satan's head.

Perhaps this is a way to indicate that they are purely based on their one parent, rather than a mingling of two? As sin stems purely from Satan, so does wisdom stem purely from Zeus.

[Anonymous No.9013746]

>>9013516

>They would pray, sing, devote sacrifices to, tell stories about, and participate in extravagant rituals

Sure but would an Athenian in, say, 430 BC actually feel any of it, or were they just going through the motions? What did they feel? It's definitely a different thing from monotheism and it's hard to wrap my head around. We think of God as this supernatural parent who loves us and is concerned in our every action and listens to our thoughts but I don't know if pagans had something remotely similar.

[Anonymous No.9013765]

>>9013746
>We think of God as this supernatural parent who loves us and is concerned in our every action and listens to our thoughts but I don't know if pagans had something remotely similar.

I mean a lot of modern Christians could be said to "just be going through the motions"

[Anonymous No.9013821]

>>9013765

Yeah but you see what I'm saying, Christianity is a moral, emotional religion at its core. Greco-Roman paganism is a set of rituals and stories.

[Anonymous No.9014052]

>>9006871
Add The Lord's Prayer every Sunday

[Anonymous No.9014734]

Mycenaean megaron

[Anonymous No.9014742]

[Anonymous No.9014780]

what section of the book does pp 40 reach? i only have the .epub

[Anonymous No.9014784]

>>9014780
Read up to The Gods of the Waters.

[Anonymous No.9014934]

So I see many parallels between ancient culture and Christianity. It strikes me, for example, the act of "anointing" which also occurs in other religions if I recall correctly. Why has oil been considered hallowed in rituals? Is it because it was a precious product that they deemed lofty?

Also, the concept of sin, which I wonder how the Greeks conceived it back then, if at all any similar to what we now understand of it.

Anyways, I'll have to guess it can all trace even back to Gilgamesh. (btw I'm enjoying thoroughly the Mithology book, even more so on the myths themselves rather than on the genealogical explanations)

[Anonymous No.9015361]

DAY THREE

Readings:
>Mythology, Part One I. pp. 41-52
>A Brief History of Ancient Greece, Chapter 1. pp. 12-35

Bonus readings:
>Aetiology from the Handbook of Classical Mythology
http://docdro.id/AMNgeBF
>Hubris (hybris) from the Handbook of Classical Mythology
http://docdro.id/tLR8Z7N
>A Myth of Innocence. A poem by Louise Glück
https://www.poets.org/poetsorg/poem/myth-innocence
>A Myth of Devotion. A poem by Louise Glück
https://www.poets.org/poetsorg/poem/myth-devotion

Pictured
>Persephone and Hades. 5th century BC.

[Anonymous No.9015898]

bump

[Anonymous No.9016124]

>>9015361
You're doing the lord's work, OP. I'll be joining /SWTG/ asa I get my copy of Homer's the Iliad translated by Robert Fitzgerald which is on its way.

[Anonymous No.9016335]

>>9014934
I wish I had a good source for this but early Christians made myths specifically to appeal to pagans in order to convert them, such as all the pagan imagery behind Christmas, etc.

I'd wager that oil was revered because it could be used for cooking and/or heating. It's kind of magical if you think about it.

As far as sit goes, I really doubt anything before it would compare to the Christian conception of sin
which in my view is a pretty brilliant power play to keep your followers in line.

[Anonymous No.9016439]

>The society of the small Stone Age villages was probably egalitarian, with no inequality outside of sex, age, and skill. Families cooperated and shared with their neighbors, most of whom were kinfolk. Leadership was probably tempo- rary, assumed now by this man, now by another, as the need for a decisive voice arose.

How does she know this?

[Anonymous No.9016501]

I'm still only like 200 pages into War and Peace, but I'll definitely take part in this. Already have to play catchup but I'll try. Is the Iliad translation and other stuff in the OP good?

[Anonymous No.9016569]

>>9016501
Hamilton and Pomeroy are enjoyable readings so far.

[Anonymous No.9016578]

>>9016569
Hmm, the Hamilton book only comes in .epub, not .pdf, and I don't have an e-reader. What's the level of info there? I'm not totally ignorant about Greek mythology, so maybe I could skip it.

[Anonymous No.9016610]

>>9016439
>>The society of the small Stone Age villages was probably egalitarian, with no inequality outside of sex, age, and skill
>How does she know this?
Simple. There was far more equality on this planet before humans arrived. Subhumans think they invented it, but compared to us ants are practically equal. And the further back you go down the evolutionary tree, the more equality you find. Think amoebas, or even further back, hydrogen atoms. It is precisely the increase in inequality between the highest and lowest examples of a species that determines how high it stands in the tree of life, not the other way around, as the liberals are trying to convince us. The desire for equality is regressive, and every step towards it is a step back, towards monkeys, ants and amoebas.
Meanwhile, subhumans will continue to contend that things are more equal among us than among the other animals, but this philosophy of theirs is merely another symptom of the absurd amount of inequality that exists between us: so absurd that the majority of the population can fantasize about equality while, right in front of their eyes, the inequality chasm grows ever more gigantic. Not only are we not getting more equal then, but inequality is increasing every day, and the increasingly absurd theories that subhumans concoct to counter this increasing inequality are part of this rising inequality too, since they contribute to making a class of weak and stupid people ever weaker and stupider!

[Anonymous No.9016619]

Where are we supposed to be in Hamilton and Pomeroy respectively, chapter-wise?

[Anonymous No.9016638]

>>9016619
Today is day 3 in the first post, plus these >>9015361 supplemental readings.

>>9016578
>Hmm, the Hamilton book only comes in .epub, not .pdf, and I don't have an e-reader. What's the level of info there? I'm not totally ignorant about Greek mythology, so maybe I could skip it.

Hard for me to say, it's my first exposure to Greek mythology since reading the Odyssey in high school. Seems like well presented basic info though.

[Anonymous No.9016644]

>often drawing upon feminism, Marxism, cultural studies
Stopped reading there.

[Anonymous No.9016648]

>>9016610
This is some interesting (?) rhetoric but is not an evidence based argument.

[Anonymous No.9016670]

>>9016578
>Hmm, the Hamilton book only comes in .epub, not .pdf, and I don't have an e-reader.
Calibre comes with an ebook viewer.

[Anonymous No.9016688]

>>9016644
>no opinion but my mongolese anime forum opinions have any merit

Fuck off retard

[Anonymous No.9016697]

>>9016644
Why do you think those would be inappropriate for this?:
>In order to illuminate the lives of women, the very poor, and slaves
Because it seems you don't have an objection to that goal, just the means used to achieve it.
>>9016688
Your post is even worse: a jerk reaction to a jerk reaction.

[Anonymous No.9016708]

>>9016697

Feminism and Marxism are cancer created by the Jews to destroy White Western Civilization.

>>9016688

Fuck off cuck, Trump won.

[Anonymous No.9016739]

>>9016708
Why even post in this thread? Your anti-intellectualism is cancerous and not welcome.

[Anonymous No.9016745]

>>9011495
Are those toenails painted?

[Anonymous No.9016749]

>15 pages in
>WAAAH MUH NAZIS MUH HOLOCAUST

This is kike propaganda.

[Anonymous No.9016755]

>>9016708
>>9016749
>Feminism and Marxism are cancer created by the Jews to destroy White Western Civilization.
That doesn't answer my question.

Anyway, as for your drooling,
>Western civilization
>destroy
First of all, realize that there are no other civilizations left, and there haven't been for centuries, so the predicate "Western" is superfluous and even misleading (since it implies the existence of alternatives). Second, the fact that this concern is even raised proves that the vast majority of so-called civilized individuals (such as yourself) are nothing of the kind. I mean, you are seriously suggesting a culture that's about to figure out how to print human organs is under threat? What the fuck do all the minor symptoms of decline you are rabidly pointing out to us mean compared to such utterly astonishing and previously even unimaginable accomplishments? Not to mention the arrival of the very end of philosophy itself, of thought (Ubermensch)! which is an immeasurably harder and more valuable achievement! (since it was thought which created the theories with the help of which the machines that print human organs were designed in the first place, and so on). — In summa, the only one who is declining here are those who are saying that we are declining, which is a classic case of psychological projection.

Let's try to view the purported "decline" from a slightly different perspective, so that maybe even retards like yourself can finally understand that there's really obviously no such thing. Imagine you were living in the nineteenth century, and someone came along and asked you whether you wouldn't mind tolerating a few "fag pride" parades and some Islamic retards on TV screaming and lopping off dumb tourists' heads and screaming about "religious revolutions", or any other "Jewish" propaganda in exchange for moon landings, relativity and quantum theory, nuclear fission and genome sequencing, as well as countless other mind-bogglingly incredible achievements in all fields of human endeavor. QED, there's no decline, and the only ones who are declining here are those who insist there is.

Jews are said to be "the tribe that runs the West". But if you are going to go that far, why stop there? Why not say that they also run the East? At which point they might as well run the North and the South too, while they are at it, or the entire solar system and galaxy, as they'd certainly be said to do if those making the accusations had ever heard of astronomy and astrophysics. And if you get that far it's only a short step further to say the Jews run the universe itself, which would be tantamount to regarding Jews as gods, as a race of divine beings! But the funniest thing of all in this absurd business, is that the central assumption in the conspiracy theorists' "accusations" is that claiming someone is powerful is an insult. That's how you realize the kind of resentful, vindictive scum you are dealing with, when you hear of such absurd bleatings.

[Anonymous No.9016760]

>>9016755
Fuck off kike.

[Anonymous No.9016785]

>The women are shown wearing elaborate flounced skirts and a tight, sleeved bodice that exposes their breasts.

[Anonymous No.9016806]

>>9016785
That was my reaction too.

[Anonymous No.9016815]

>>9016745
No, why?

[Anonymous No.9016823]

>>9016806
What went wrong with women, and how do we fix them?

[Anonymous No.9016830]

>We may lament that of the more than 120 plays written by Sophocles, one of the most famous of the fifth century dramatists, only seven have come down to us whole
That's not even a bad things, the others were likely a step down in quality. Every artist has that problem.

[Anonymous No.9016886]

I don't know how much of Hamilton was I supposed to read, because page numbers differ depending on the format and device you are using, but I just finished the second chapter which is about Demeter and Dionysus, so far these two are the most interesting deities by far, along with Haphaesteus. Seeing the traditions associated with them and the dualistic nature of Dionysus how likely it is that they were based on the pagan gods worshipped in the land before them, seeing that they are a lot more complex than the Olympians. In the history book it was mentioned that Minoans woshipped a female goddess often found surrounded by vegetation and trees, this is extremely farfetched, but has anyone done any research on whether Demeter originated from this typical figure of the goddess of nature. The same can be argued for Dionysus, seeing that wine was one of the most important beverages in the region, therefore, all the different tribes in it had their version of a wine god. What I believe is that this adoption of gods connected with legends of the past seem to make these two characters seem much more developed than the rest, in a sense my argument is similar to the one made by Hamilton regarding the many wifes of Zeus and how they all at one point were the wifes of local deities.

[Anonymous No.9016911]

>>9016886
This presents a very interesting form of religious practice in which gods can grow, change, be adapted or appropriated, shared, etc. I was thinking along these lines when Hamilton wrote of Zeus marrying into other folk religions, as you mentioned.

It lies in stark contrast to a lot of modern religions and their tendency to proclaim "now we've got it right" and stick their heels into dogma, which the practitioners are ofter forced to accept. Especially with missionary practices, "saving" people, a focus on conversion, etc.

[Anonymous No.9016978]

Do you think Nietzsche would have known/cared for the Schliemann excavations?

[Anonymous No.9017008]

Why did the greeks worship this lot of cunts? Demeter is a fucking bitch and Zeus is an ass. What shitty gods.

Hamilton, 13% through atm.

[Anonymous No.9017189]

>>9015361
Don't like either of the poems, but the other two readings are interesting.

>Apollo flaying a satyr alive
Greek Gods were unnecessary brutal at times

[Anonymous No.9017297]

>Wood was originally abundant in the highland areas. As time went on, however, forests became depleted and by the fifth century BC the more populous regions were forced to import timber.
Did the aboriginal Greek Mycenaeans' chimp-out cause the Dark Ages?

[Anonymous No.9017456]

>>9006868
Not that I've just started, I've read the Edith Hamilton book, I've read "The Iliad" and am currently reading "The Fall Of Troy" and "The Metamorphoses" side by side.

Are there any other works that delve deeper into the myths? Maybe it's just the translation, I dunno but Ovid spends like, three sentences on the War Of The Giants and never goes into things like Saturn devouring his children and such..

Is Bullfinch's Mythology any more "in-depth"?

Or am I just SOL?

[Anonymous No.9017896]

>>9016830
As time passes, our opinion of works change. It's possible the ones missing would be considered his greatest works in our day.

[Anonymous No.9017950]

>>9017456
There are two ways you can delve more into the myths. One is to read more of the primary sources. At the beginning of each retelling, Hamilton lists which sources the myth is derived from. You could also check Wikipedia to see which primary sources refer to the myth.

We will be reading Hesiod's Theogony soon which is a primary telling of Cronos devouring his children.

The other way is to look at another retelling text. Mythology by Mark Morford and Robert Lenardon is one option, though some consider it bland. And Robert Graves's The Greek Myths is also popular and slightly more colorful.

[Anonymous No.9017997]

Just finished Day 1 & 2, I guess this is a sort of a priori reading before I can progress to Homer's works.

Not much to discuss seeing as all 3 books have s far just laid down the basics, general timeline, key player etc etc. Couple of things though, this Hecate described in Hamilton's book, is this the same Hecate brought up in Shakesperean times in MacBeth? Also if only 20% of land was fertile and fit for farming, how was 90% of the male population involved in agriculture? Seems high for a society ahead of its time

Hamilton kept referencing The Iliad and Odyssey throughout the first 40 pages which meant nothing to me yet as I haven't read them, but got me prepared I supose

[Anonymous No.9018001]

>>9017997
Oh fuck me we're on Day 3

[Anonymous No.9018009]

>>9016610
I'm reading the full version rather than the abridged Brief... one, but the same I think part in that reads like this in this:
> The uniformity of material culture--house plans, grave types, burial goods--in these villages suggests that social relations would have been egalitarian, with no inequality apart from sex, age, and skill.

[Anonymous No.9018014]

>>9018009
>>9016439
Responded to wrong post.

[Anonymous No.9018152]

How much of a continuity was there between Mycenaean culture and classical Greek? Pomeroy writes that a bunch of Mycenaean god names corresponded with Greek god names, and there's the language obviously, but are the material cultures radically different?

[Anonymous No.9018325]

>>9015361
Hmm, I quite liked the second poem but not at all the first.

[Anonymous No.9018386]

>>9018152
Homer is the continuity, the chain that joins them. You can even talk about pre-Homeric and post-Homeric Greece.

[Anonymous No.9019293]

DAY FOUR

Readings:
>Mythology, Part One II. pp. 53-76
>Brief History of Ancient Greece, Chapter 2. pp. 36-44

Bonus Readings:
>Personified Abstractions
http://docdro.id/8qk3Pht
>The Gods Establish Their Cults
http://docdro.id/NFpeoAf

>Pictured
Dionysus and a Satyr. 5th century BC.

[Anonymous No.9019301]

NEW POLL

>pls take
http://www.strawpoll.me/12192362

[Receive a VERIFIEDPEPE No.9019477]

>>9016610

It doesnt work like this retard.

[Anonymous No.9019606]

Not the OP. Just bumping to keep the thread alive

[Anonymous No.9019788]

[Anonymous No.9019872]

I read the stuff for today and I have nothing to say.

[Anonymous No.9019886]

>>9019872
Time for pop quiz then.

How is the god of wine both man's benefactor and destroyer?

[Anonymous No.9019962]

is this group going to last? i joined a short story reading group and those anons gave up really quick. I don't want to invest time in something you guys will only keep up for a couple of weeks.

[Anonymous No.9020008]

>>9019962
Short story group still exists >>9015486 has like 20 participants every story.

[Anonymous No.9020090]

>>9019962
>is this group going to last?
If this group doesn't last, I'll never come to /lit/ ever.

>tfw one day left for my copy of the illiad to arrive

[Anonymous No.9020105]

>>9019293
you are a good poster

[Anonymous No.9020112]

>>9019886
if u get 2 lit senpai then u might get fucked on all kinds of shit cuz.. but that shit guwop too mane u turn up to the club with yall boys and hit that gucci wine and make that pussy drip keke

[Anonymous No.9020149]

Pop Quiz Question 2

What activities were held at a Dionysia (Festival of Dionysus)?

[Anonymous No.9020234]

>>9020149
Plays were played with his priest having the best seat.

Do we know anything, like anything at all, besides the corn thing mentioned in mythology about the Eleusinian Mysteries ?

>>9019962
Short story group still lives, but there is little to no discussion, so I suppose it's a matter of time before it dies. This group is quite alright for now, I figure by the end there will be at least five people left.

[Anonymous No.9020344]

Slept in today. Do most of you do your reading in the morning or in the evening?

Anyone not from the us?

[Anonymous No.9020385]

>I'm gonna come into your house disguised
>secretly, I'm gonna help your kid out
>YOU CAN'T PUT MY KID IN THE FIREPLACE
>sorry bitch, you have to build me a temple now
>ok we did
>famine time suckas too bad you all just worked your asses off building that temple, which I'll sit in doing nothing

[Anonymous No.9020403]

>>9006871
Why stop Mythology after Part III?

Am I correct with assuming this is just the first month, yes? There's a lot more to read.

>>9020344
Russia here. I read in the mornings, go to work and come back home in the evening. I won't be able to participate in these threads daily.

[Anonymous No.9020439]

>>9020344
UK here. I read in the evening and share my thoughts on the next day when I come back home from uni.

[Anonymous No.9020455]

>>9020403
>Why stop Mythology after Part III?
because it's shit

[Anonymous No.9020474]

>>9020403
This is just the first month. We're stopping there because I want to get to the translated full texts for things instead of just the retellings. We will probably revisit the book after going through some of the primary sources.

[Anonymous No.9020481]

Pop Quiz Question 3

How was Dionysus a "tragic god"?

[Anonymous No.9020517]

>>9020474
How long is the group going to be ? I assume we will be reading Odyssey after finishing with the Iliad. What comes next ?

[Anonymous No.9020596]

>>9020517
I have no concrete time frame or schedule beyond what I posted, only a list of works I'd like us to get to. I'd estimate the readings through the Hellenistic period will take at least a few months, perhaps longer.

In addition to catch-up days, we could take a break at some point.

After the Odyssey comes the Greek playwrights and readings from Herodotus' Histories.

[Anonymous No.9020611]

>>9020596
Thank you for your planning and scheduöing anon.
I may notbe very active in the threads but I will try to stay up to date.

[Anonymous No.9020694]

>>9020481
>How was Dionysus a "tragic god"?

Hamilton talks about how Dionysus' dual nature -representing freedom and joy as well as malice and destruction- made sense as he was the god of wine, and wine is both enjoyable and destructive. Then the author suggests Dionysus is tragic because the grapevine is pruned and then shrivels in the winter.

I see the tragedy in Dionysus relating to alcohol just as his dual nature. It is indeed tragic to see an alcoholic fail repeatedly to stop using. As it is to see someone with potential sink into nothingness as they drink day after day. It's tragic when a loved one says cruel things in their drunkenness, or tells lies.

Dionysus is a tragic god because he reminds us of the tragedy that wine can bring. Wine that we love, enjoy, and revere.

[Anonymous No.9020747]

>>9020481
They used him as a rag-doll, just like Xristos many centuries later.

[Anonymous No.9020976]

what is the best version of the illiad (there's a shit ton of copies from 4$ up to 40$)

[Anonymous No.9021063]

>>9006868
Could you post some secondary and optional texts and articles about the Illiad when we read it?

[Anonymous No.9021112]

Does the concept "dyonisian" in Nietzsche have the tragic connotations the god Dyonisus had?

[Anonymous No.9021228]

>>9020976
The translation of Fagles is good.

[Anonymous No.9021345]

>>9020344
Canada here, I do most of my reading in the late evening, but I'm trying to keep a day or so ahead of the group just in case anything comes up, so I'll have a catch-up/break day.

[Anonymous No.9021480]

>>9020344
uk. i do most of the reading on the train during my morning commute to uni, and i read the rest on the journey back

does anyone know when the catch up days will be?

[Anonymous No.9021551]

>>9020344
Belgium
I'm a slow reader, so I read whenever I've got time

[Anonymous No.9021853]

Finished the reading of Brief History for day 4, end of the Greek Dark Age, anyone else? Don't have e-reader so can't read Hamilton's Mythology.

[Anonymous No.9021880]

>>9021853
You can read Hamilton's Mythology on a PC, phone, or tablet. You just need to download Calibre and use its epub reader, or download an epub reader on your phone/tablet.

Alternatively, you could download this PDF of the book:
http://libgen.me/view.php?id=908260

[Anonymous No.9022225]

Question 4

What similarities are there between Dionysus and Persephone?

[Anonymous No.9022253]

>>9021853
Just a useful tip I want to give since I already read this book, is that Greeks eventually came up with a lot of assemblies. They introduce the boule here, but later on, you get many others like dicastery and I got them confused a lot. Recommend using the glossary to not let this happen :x

>>9019886
Tragic also the fact that something that can very well give us joy, will as well make us incur in some of the most reproachable behaviour.

>>9020344
I'm from Mexico, so I have the same time to read and respond in the evening-night.

[Anonymous No.9022330]

>>The gender of the being is determined by
the grammatical gender of the noun; for example, eros is a masculine noun so
that Eros is a male deity, and eris is a feminine noun so that Eris is a female de-
ity.

I thought before that Greek initially worshipped abstractions such as freedom and from their names would come the word for the concept. So liberty may have been first the goddess and then a word that could be used to refer interchangeably to the character or concept.

How did they know what came first? Sorry if it is a stupid question.

[Anonymous No.9022334]

>>9020976
>>9021228
The translation of Fitzegarld is good.

[Anonymous No.9022343]

>>9020976
>>9021228
The translation of Fitzgerald is good.

[Anonymous No.9022416]

>not reading "A brief history of ancient Greece" and then Bibliotheca by Apollodorus before reading the Iliad
Pleb casuals

[Anonymous No.9022427]

>>9022416
Apollodorus came out 900 years after the Iliad. Why is it necessary to read first?

[Anonymous No.9022444]

>>9022427
Because it's like a bible of Greek mythology. Mythology is a useless book when you have Bibliotheca, sure it's dry as fuck but it pretty much tells you most of Greek mythology.

[Anonymous No.9022451]

>>9022416
dude edgy moonman holocaust lol

[Anonymous No.9022630]

Hamilton is a major Greekaboo.

[Anonymous No.9022679]

>>9019788
Is Demeter best waifu?

[Anonymous No.9022777]

>>9006868
I want to join, i just got a copy of Hamilton's Mythology, but I'm working my way through war and peace and refuse to give up

Happy reading fellas

[Anonymous No.9022801]

DAY FIVE

Readings
>Mythology, Part One III. pp. 77-94
>Brief History of Ancient Greece, Chapter 2. pp. 45-60

Strawpoll (pls take)
http://www.strawpoll.me/12199678

Bonus Readings
>Eponymy
http://docdro.id/VhjYBx7
>Folk Etymology
http://docdro.id/vb10ZIc

Pictured is Saturn Devouring His Son by Francisco Goya. 19th century.

[Anonymous No.9022828]

>>9009416
>Egyptian

This has GOT to be bullshit, I'm as white/Germanic as they come.

[Anonymous No.9022831]

>>9006868
Isn't Chinese civilization older than the Greek?

[Anonymous No.9022842]

>>9022831
What's your point?

[Anonymous No.9022845]

>>9022842
Well, shouldn't we START with the Chinese then?

[Anonymous No.9022846]

>>9022845
Why?

[Anonymous No.9022851]

>>9022846
Why start with the Greeks tho?

It's not like they were the first civilization to philosophize or write.

Is it just because "muh western world"?

[Anonymous No.9022860]

>>9022851
Yes. You can make a Start With the Chinese Thread if you like.

[Anonymous No.9022864]

>>9022860
Pfft, why would I want to do that?

Philosophy is just pointless self serving bullshit.

[Anonymous No.9022873]

>>9022864
Then read something else.
Or don't.

[Anonymous No.9022881]

>>9022828
>you
>white

[Anonymous No.9022886]

>>9022851
Because chances are you live in a Western country and Greece was the first Western civilization.

[Anonymous No.9022890]

>>9022881
Uhh... Okay?

I am though.

[Anonymous No.9022894]

Anyone hear ever read "1177 B.C."?

[Anonymous No.9022897]

>>9022890
>I wuz whyte n shieeet

[Anonymous No.9022900]

>>9022897
Are... Are you implying Germans aren't white?

[Anonymous No.9022911]

>>9022900
True whites wouldn't try to destroy Europe three times in a row.

[Anonymous No.9022912]

I wish I had a 650+ year old pendant I wore around my neck. That would be dank.

Was she sacrificed? Why destroy the building after the funeral if it was meant to be a mausoleum? Such mysteries.

[Anonymous No.9022914]

>>9022911
>Implying I had anything to do with that

Little before my time, m8.

[Anonymous No.9022918]

>>9022911
>Three times

???

[Anonymous No.9022926]

>>9022914
If you're allowed to take pride in the actions of your ancestors, you also have to take responsibility for them.

>>9022918
World War 1.
World War 2.
Migrant Crisis.

[Anonymous No.9022928]

>>9022926
>you also have to take responsibility for them

>I am responsible for the actions of my ancestors

Man, fuck that bullshit bible tier logic.

I am not responsible for my fathers or grandfathers etc. etc. mistakes.

[Anonymous No.9022938]

>>9022928
If that's the case, then you're not allowed to feel pride in their accomplishments.

[Anonymous No.9022940]

The possibility that literacy and representational art can be lost is terrifying.

[Anonymous No.9022941]

>>9022938
Never said I did.

Pride is overrated, all I did was assert ethnicity, nothing more.

[Anonymous No.9022945]

>>9022941
I'm sorry. I was just browsing /pol/ and it made me irrationally angry. I was just shitposting to blow off steam.

[Anonymous No.9022951]

>>9022945
>Actively browsing /pol/

You've no one but yourself to blame on that one.

I avoid that shithole like the fucking plague.

[Anonymous No.9022955]

why must /pol/ defile the /swtg/ thread with its inanities? please go back to your containment board

[Anonymous No.9022957]

>>9022951
Sometimes people forget it's all a meme.

[Anonymous No.9022960]

>>9022957
I'm not certain it's all that ironic anymore. I think they legitimately believe the bullshit they spew 24/7.

[Anonymous No.9023172]

>>9022864
Go fuck yourself, then.

[Anonymous No.9023175]

>>9022801
I'll take the poll asa I get my copy of the Iliad.

[Anonymous No.9023275]

>>9022851
Holy shit use your fucking brain before posting

[Anonymous No.9023281]

>>9022897
Impressionable spaz what is your malfunction? It's almost impressive how legitimately autistic you sound, do you adapt new ways of speaking every time you watch a movie aswell?

[Anonymous No.9023298]

>>9022851
It's a valid question and was asked before. Here was my answer: >>/lit/thread/S9000533#p9002330

For me it basically comes down to lineage. The Greeks are the most important ancient civilization when it comes to reading modern Western works, so that is why they are the best one to start with and thoroughly study. Others offer only fractured influence, though some are of greater literary value.

If this group's aim was to read all the greatest literature in the world, and it went from the dawn of time to the present day, it would hit many foreign works and foreign canons. But that is not the aim of the group.

[Anonymous No.9023317]

I'm late. How far are we?

[Anonymous No.9023326]

>>9023317
see>>9022801

Just dry Mythology m8

[Anonymous No.9023337]

>>9022957
You're a meme dumbass fuck out.

[Anonymous No.9023514]

Anyone else had some sudden "oh so this story was based on this" moments?
Psyche's story is Cinderella minus the unfaithful part because that's not very disney like

[Anonymous No.9023707]

>>9020976
>>9021228
>>9022343
The translation of Lattimore is good.

[Anonymous No.9023767]

>>9023707

Read and memorize all three + Pope's translation, and simply orate over and over until you have distilled the greatest version of all

[Anonymous No.9023855]

>>9023767
it would probably be easier to just learn attic greek

[Anonymous No.9024206]

Dionysus best God, Prometheus best titan, Odysseus best hero, Helen best waifu

[Anonymous No.9024403]

>>9024206
athena best waifu

[Anonymous No.9024412]

>>9024206
>>9024403
Eris best waifu

[Anonymous No.9024417]

>>9024412
Hail Eris.

[Anonymous No.9024434]

>>9024417
All Hail Discordia

[Anonymous No.9024451]

>>9020344
From Maraysia. It's 3am right now

[Anonymous No.9025256]

What makes Homer so important to justify naming an entire historical period after him ?

[Anonymous No.9025507]

>>9025256
He coincides with an (almost) otherwise completely dark age.

[Anonymous No.9026232]

>>9006878
WE

[Anonymous No.9026394]

Damn. I just read the chapter of the Argonauts, the part of the adaptation by Euripides and now I see why Greek theater was called tragic. This goes against any notion of romance, the story ending in complete disaster.

[Anonymous No.9026648]

>>9022851
I'm with you, anon.

[Anonymous No.9026654]

>>9022911
You're out of your league.

[Anonymous No.9026763]

The story of Prometheus and the fire has always seemed so strange to me. By disobeying God he saved men, and suffered dearly for it. But he doesn't get any special reverence from men for it. It ends up being a moral story instead. Gives me a little bit of an idea of the different viewpoint an ancient greek might have.

[Anonymous No.9027345]

DAY SIX

Reading
>Brief History of Ancient Greece, Chapter 3. pp. 61-85

Catch-up day tomorrow.

Pictured: hoplite phalanx

[Anonymous No.9027476]

>tfw we will never see with our own eyes how large-scale archaic greek painting was

[Anonymous No.9027676]

I found the reading for today quite interesting, especially the part about the colonies, always knew the Greeks had some, but never presumed they reached as far as Marseille. Another intriguing thing is the lack of dual citizenship, you are limited to only being a part of one polis, why do you think this happened when connections between polises and their daughter colonies still remained strong after the settlers have formed them. Why not allow them to keep their citizenship ?

I felt as if the part on Hesiod gave us a nice perspective on who he was, what was he fighting for etc. before actually reading him, which is helpful. Something I noticed is the treatment of women in Greek society as an inherently evil being, it was first mentioned in Hamilton when she talked about Pandora and according to the reading for today Hesiod also says : "the man who trusts a woman trusts thieves."

Paying a fee to the oracle seemed a bit weird, looks like religion was turned into a business long before the church showed up. Also, it was mentioned how the shields used by the phalanx are much different than the shields used in the Heroic age. What is the difference ?

[Anonymous No.9027724]

>>9027676
>it was mentioned how the shields used by the phalanx are much different than the shields used in the Heroic age. What is the difference ?

https://myarmoury.com/feature_shield.html

>Beginning in about the seventh century BC, the most common form of Greek shield was a large, deeply concave, circular shield made of wood and bronze. This was called a hoplon, and it gave its name to the Greek soldier, the hoplite. These shields are today often referred to as Argive shields, and, in many ways, they made the Greek phalanx possible. These hoplon shields seem to have been derived from a type of short-lived circular shield made entirely of bronze and having a single, centrally-mounted handgrip on the inside. The hoplon, like its predecessors, averaged about 31-39 inches in diameter, but unlike the previous type, was made with a wooden core and had a different method of being gripped. Instead of the single handgrip, it was supported by means of a bronze, or bronze and leather, strap in the center of the back face of the shield, and a leather or cord grip at the edge. This was large enough for the warrior's left arm to slide through up to the forearm, while the hand held the grip located at the edge of the shield. Because of the sharply concave shape of these shields, the inside of the rim could be rested against the warrior's shoulder, which would help both to brace the shield against powerful blows, and take some of the strain off of his arms. The last point is particularly important as these shields weighed around 15.5 pounds.

http://www.ancientmilitary.com/greek-warriors.htm

>The Greek warriors were called hoplites, named after their shield, the hoplon. Hoplons were heavy, bronze-covered wooden shields about 3 to 3.5 feet in diameter. It spanned from chin to knee and was very heavy (17- 33 pounds). These shields had a revolutionary design; their rounded shape allowed them to be rested on the shoulder for additional support. They also featured a new grip and forearm straps that gave them great amounts of mobility and allowed them to be used offensively to bash opponents. The Greek warriors overlapped their shields, forming a shield wall. The left part of each warrior’s shield protected the right side of the hoplite to his left.

[Anonymous No.9027910]

>>9027724
>etymology of (demo)cracy, (demo)graphy, (ethno)graphy, etc
>orgin of metro-polis

Stemfag here having my mind blown at which words have Greek roots.

[Anonymous No.9028043]

>>9006868
The first book I read was curious George.
Did I fuck up?
Which Greek would logically follow from George?

[Anonymous No.9028116]

>Pythagoras, one of the most influential cosmologists, is familiar to us from the geometric theorem that still bears his name.

A note here: the Pythagoreans would have preferred the Pythagorean Theorem rather than Pythagoras' Theorem or The Theorem of Pythagoras, both of which are in use by some today. This is because their cult did not believe in individual ownership of or credit for ideas. I feel sort of like I'm saying "Actually, it's GNU/Linux..." but it feels more appropriate to use the name the originators would have preferred. That said, the result known as the Pythagorean Theorem was not invented or discovered by the Pythagoreans, being known since at least the Babylonians.

A bit of mathematical legend while we're at it. The Pythagoreans were obsessed with ratios and thought that any quantity could be expressed as a ratio of two whole numbers (i.e. as a fraction). A scholar, perhaps Hippasus, took a right angled triangle with two legs of length 1 and calculated its hypotenuse using the Pythagorean Theorem. He was able to show the length of the hypotenuse, namely the square root of 2, could not be expressed as a ratio. So his peers took Hippasus on a nice sail to the middle of the sea and threw him overboard.

[Anonymous No.9028319]

figured this would be the best place to ask
>care mostly just about mythology, gods are cool and shit etc
i was thinking of starting with either Mythology by Hamilton or the one by Buxton then moving on towards one of Homer's books

that should be a good starting point right?

[Anonymous No.9028687]

>>9027910
I know right. me too

[Anonymous No.9028777]

>goddess of the corn
>mfw

[Anonymous No.9028892]

>>9028319
We will start reading the primary sources of mythology the day after tomorrow, with Hesiod's Theogony, just join us.

[Anonymous No.9028913]

>>9016755
Great post.

[Anonymous No.9028988]

>>9019788
>Who is Quetzalcoatl/Kukulkan?
Corn is a massive feat of mexican native eugenics.
Also, is a very most nutritive cereal then wheat and rice if you treat it with the chemical process of nixtamalization, developed by native mexicans too.

[Anonymous No.9028996]

>I am the drinking cup of Nestor, good to drink from. Whoever drinks this cup, immediately the desire will seize him of beautiful-crowned Aphrodite
That's a big claim.

[Anonymous No.9029004]

All of you fucking pagans are going to hell.

[Anonymous No.9029013]

>>9029004
God doesn't exist.

[Anonymous No.9029056]

>>9023298
Can't wait for the Mahabharata discussion.

[Anonymous No.9029117]

>>9026763
Stupids are afraid to reverence Prometheus because "Jupiter is going to punishme too", Prometheus knows that beforehand but still does his stuff.

>Prometheus, 20% most cooler then Jesus (insert Rainbowdash meme here).

[Anonymous No.9029140]

>>9027910
>having my mind blown at which words have Greek roots.
Being this pleb. You are going to die when you discover which words have Latin roots.

[Anonymous No.9029246]

>>9029117
Also, worship an enlightenment bringer wold be a fucking oxymoron.

[Anonymous No.9029271]

>>9029246

[Anonymous No.9029338]

>>9007035
kek 10/10

[Anonymous No.9029429]

>>9012827
Kurdish are the most indoeuropean people around, ethnical & culturally speaking.

[Anonymous No.9029438]

>>9029429
WE

[Anonymous No.9029445]

>>9013006
>Were there people at the time who just saw them as characters in stories?
Who was Plato? Who was Socrates?

[Anonymous No.9029649]

I think after we get through the Odyssey we should model the group after the "crucial" highlights of Harold Bloom's Western Canon
http://sonic.net/~rteeter/grtbloom.html
So basically, after Homer it would be Plato (with background / optional philosophy readings as we have now), then Aeschylus/Sophocles/Euripides (again), then Virgil (again), then Bible highlights.

[Anonymous No.9029682]

I was reading Part Two of Mythology, about the Love myths, by accident because I misread it for Chapter Two. Having the titles of each section would have been easier to read.

[Anonymous No.9029723]

>>9021112
You could read The Birth of Tragedy since this first book of his explicitly answers that question. But tl;dr, yes it does. However, in his mature thought that early definition gets synthesised with Apollonian features for greater tension/pathos.

[Anonymous No.9029734]

>>9022225
>What similarities are there between Dionysus and Persephone?
They both were 'earthly' gods who ended up in the underworld but were able to return to earth, resurrected.

[Anonymous No.9029769]

>>9022225
I interpreted it as the constant reminder of death, being such a beautiful being as Persephone the Goddess of the Death who died every year and returned afterwards for the summer to the fields; the vines were harvested and, in Autumn, they were themselves dead. Thus both deities died in the Winter, resurrecting in Summer every year. Beautiful things were at the edge of life all the time.

[Anonymous No.9029964]

Pop Quiz

What is synoecism?

What is a basileus?

What is a boule?

How did the power of the basileis and boule change in early city-states?

[Anonymous No.9030053]

>>9029964
>What is synoecism?
I don't think I've come across this term yet.

>What is a basileus?
A chief, though not with absolute power. Basically the alpha male led warriors on raids, into battles.

>What is a boule?
An assembly of the aforementioned chiefs, who convened and set policy for the society.

>How did the power of the basileis and boule change in early city-states?
I think the power of the basileus was usually handed down hereditarily. But this isn't always the case as the son of the former basileus could be challenged for the position from others in the group if he seemed unfit for the position. Not sure about how the boule changes. I'm a little behind.

[Anonymous No.9030162]

>>9029964
>How did the power of the basileis and boule change in early city-states?

From memory, at first there was no boule and an individual basileis would have domain over his household and surrounding fields and would employ some people. Then the boule emerged where several basileises would sit on a sort of committee, but there was one chief among chiefs who had sort of directorial privilege. Later, this head basileis lost power and it became a figurative position as the boule became the "government" of proto city-states, increasing their power.

Growth was maintained via colonization, never allowing there to be too many powerful chiefs in one area to squabble with one another. Instead some would be sent abroad with others along with the chance to be the new head honcho of a colony.

[Anonymous No.9030345]

>>9023337
>You're a meme dumbass fuck out.
what did he mean by this

[Anonymous No.9031032]

Catch-up day today.

If you're caught up, get ahead so you don't fall behind.

Pictured: come at me bro

[Anonymous No.9031044]

>>9029964
>What is synoecism?
Development towards city-states.
>What is a basileus?
Chieftain
>What is a boule?
Elders Council
>How did the power of the basileis and boule change in early city-states?
Shifted from former to latter.

[Anonymous No.9031064]

Are we only reading up to page 90 of the Greek History book? Or is this more than a single-month project, and we're just protracting its completion?

[Anonymous No.9031071]

If we're having a break, why don't we have a meta discussion. What is it, if anything, that you currently don't like about the group ? What are some suggestions or improvements you can think of ? If you do not, why do you not participate in the discussions ?

[Anonymous No.9031183]

>>9031064
It is more than a single month project. We read enough history to get us through the initial readings and into Homer. We'll resume history readings when we pick up the Greek dramatists in the classical period.

[Anonymous No.9031369]

>>9031071
>If we're having a break, why don't we have a meta discussion. What is it, if anything, that you currently don't like about the group ? What are some suggestions or improvements you can think of ? If you do not, why do you not participate in the discussions ?

I'll give an answer to a question you didn't ask, which is what do you like about the group.

I've been enjoying the discussion questions/"pop quizzes" that occasionally get posted. I don't know if it's just the OP doing them or not, but they really help me go back and synthesize the readings instead of just hoping I remembered and processed it.

I imagine to some they feel like freshman year tier, but I'm out of school and didn't study the humanities when I was in school, so they're just right for me.

I also have enjoyed the supplemental readings that get posted here and there. I'm on the lookout for supplements as I google things, but haven't found much worth posting. But I think you can't have too many extra resources.

[Anonymous No.9031468]

>>9006868
What's the actual point of reading the pic related part? Why can't I just start with the Iliad.

[Anonymous No.9031480]

>>9031468
You can do whatever you want friend.

[Anonymous No.9031504]

>>9031480
Guide me the right way "whatever" is an annoying word. Can I start with the Iliad?

[Anonymous No.9031511]

>>9031504
not that guy, but I started with Iliad and Mythology together. It's a little confusing going straight away into the Iliad without knowing the background/precursors to the Trojan war and a decent knowledge of the Greek Pantheon

[Anonymous No.9031543]

>>9031468
The reading before the Iliad is supposed to give you more background knowledge of the era and what the Greek world looked like during the period. It will aid your understanding of the poem.

[Anonymous No.9031651]

>>9006871
It seems like ACM is playing major role. What the best edition I can get? Will pic related do?

[Anonymous No.9031682]

>>9031504
I'd recommend working through Mythology before moving on to The Iliad. You can just focus on the main stories which is around 200 pages.

You could read the two simultaneously but there would be a lot of back-and-forth using either Mythology or a different information source.

[Anonymous No.9031968]

>>9031468
>What's the actual point of reading the pic related
>What's the actual point of reading
>What's the point
>>>/r9k/

[Anonymous No.9032019]

Anyone have access to the newly recovered works of Philodemos?

[Anonymous No.9032264]

Will we be reading philosophical works after all the mythology?

[Anonymous No.9032309]

Whats the best "cover-all" book for Ancient Greece?

Histories?

[Anonymous No.9032343]

>>9013444
>the plays of Menander
fragments*

[Anonymous No.9032356]

>>9027676
Western religion has always in corporated a monetary aspect.
>looks like religion was turned into a business long before the church showed up

Where do you think the Christian church got the idea from? It stemmed from the Greek and Roman religions and how they set up cults and worship.

[Anonymous No.9032361]

>>9013444
>Implying Shakespeare was a real person

>Implying his plays weren't written by numerous different people.

Oh anon...

[Anonymous No.9032367]

>>9032361
xD

[Anonymous No.9032369]

>>9032367
Nice meme response, loser.

[Anonymous No.9032386]

>>9032369
Meme response to a meme post.

[Anonymous No.9032396]

>>9032386
Get your faggot ass English poet shit OUT of this Ancient Greek thread.

[Anonymous No.9032411]

>>9032396
Shakespeare was mentioned in one of the books.

[Anonymous No.9032433]

>>9032411
Shakespeare isn't Ancient Greek now fuck off.

[Anonymous No.9032445]

>>9032433
Then why'd you post about him?

[Anonymous No.9032463]

>>9032445
You started it, faglord.

[Anonymous No.9032473]

>>9032463
My first post was >>9032367
Seems like you're just an autist who got butthurt when someone called him out on the fact that he's a retard.

[Anonymous No.9032502]

>>9032473
No, ur a retard.

[Anonymous No.9032588]

>>9032264
Yes

[Anonymous No.9032934]

new thread when

[Anonymous No.9033110]

>>9033089

NEW THREAD

>>9033089