/lit/ - Literature

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Anonymous Fri Dec 23 22:08:00 2016 No.8879190 [Reply] [Original]

Is there a Southern Gothic-esque equivalent for the American Midwest and Desert Southwest? Not necessarily like Westerns, but like horror or crime or thriller or surrealism, something a bit more contemporary. Think of the kind of imagery conjured up by "Badlands" or "Darkness on the Edge of Town".

Cormac McCarthy is a good example of the kind of thing I'm talking about, but not necessarilly the end-all be-all.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 23 22:10:19 2016 No.8879201 I'm also thinking of something kind of post-apocalyptic relating to the nuclear bomb testing in Nevada.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 23 22:23:15 2016 No.8879252 Eugenides. Being from Detroit, he incorporates a wistful longing amid urban ruins into all of his works.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 23 22:42:47 2016 No.8879304 >>8879252 Thanks a lot! I'll check him out.

Anonymous Sat Dec 24 00:33:20 2016 No.8879597

>>8879201

Got off a DFW rec list that you can't help but run into is 'Angels,' by Denis Johnson. Check it:

>She was drinking a beer in Dwight Snow's car in the Basha's parking lot, a shimmering lake of molten asphalt, and training the air conditioner's vents onto her face. Though she'd pushed it up to MAX, the unit was feeble against the heat; when it blew in her face, her knees felt hot; the back seat area was twenty degrees warmer than the front. Dwight was now in the supermarket buying lemons and tequila. He had a pretty nice car here, a Buick Riviera with a red interior that still smelled new. She didn't know how she got into these places.

It's a haunting book, one I return to. Johnson's other works are a bit more famous. And if you dig that stuff, I'd recommend the music of James McMurtry for a vibe if interrupted by form, nevertheless makes for an otherwise whole voice of the kind you're looking for

Anonymous Sat Dec 24 02:19:58 2016 No.8879792

>>8879190
This is probably the opposite of what you're looking for, but the sort of regionalism you might be interested in can be found in some of the more literary of Joan Didion's essays.

Not that they're necessarily any good on their own, but the essays focus on that sort of region, and follow from an almost-McCarthy-esque impulse of description.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 24 12:05:49 2016 No.8880826 Richard Shelton is good too.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 24 13:51:49 2016 No.8881174 >Springsteen Hack

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 24 14:10:28 2016 No.8881239 The Heart, She Holler

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 24 16:39:05 2016 No.8881626 >>8881239 >TV show no >Adult Swim tv show double no

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 24 16:53:22 2016 No.8881654 >>8881174 Say that to me irl and I'll 'hack' your fucking face up motherfucker

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 24 21:47:54 2016 No.8882458 >>8881654 Do it buddy

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 24 21:57:17 2016 No.8882484 File: 37 KB, 365x562, e18fb4274b1708f6338e3551636a9be3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >American Midwest >Surrealism >a bit more contemporary There's the Great Ohio Desert that you could check out.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 24 22:09:26 2016 No.8882518 >>8882484 >DFW I'm skeptical, yet intrigued.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 24 22:13:07 2016 No.8882528 >>8882518 Not even memeing.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 24 23:42:06 2016 No.8882790 >>8879190 Early Gogol No joke

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 24 23:44:10 2016 No.8882795 The Dark Tower series

Anonymous Sun Dec 25 00:32:16 2016 No.8882911

FILM RECS FOR SOUTHERN GOTHIC-ESQUE

Salesman
Two-Lane Blacktop >>>
Fat City >
Badlands >
Stranded in Canton
Days of Heaven
Thunder & Lightfoot
Strozek
Wise Blood
Paris, Texas >>>
The Thin Blue Line
After Dark, My Sweet
The Hot Spot >
Dust Devil
A Perfect World >>
Buffalo 66
No Country for Old Men

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 25 07:29:48 2016 No.8883416 >>8882911 >film Thank you though

Anonymous Sun Dec 25 11:17:49 2016 No.8883756

>>8883416

Of course. I like this thread, pic is comfy and the things you're asking for are things I'm looking for without realizing it. I would also add to this
'Play it as it Lays,' by Joan Didion
'Dog of the South,' by Charles Portis for a real Springsteen vibe
Cannery Row, by Steinbeck
'The Last Picture Show' & 'Texasville' def high up on the rec list
And Tony Hillerman write great Southwest detective books. High in mood if not the most substantial

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 25 11:57:12 2016 No.8883867 On a rattlesnake speedway in the Utah desert, I collect my money and head back into town.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 25 12:06:23 2016 No.8883886 File: 19 KB, 910x480, 1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Anyone have any PNW Gothic?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 25 13:32:38 2016 No.8884160 >>8883886 This would be very interesting indeed. It would have quite a different vibe from more Middle/Western/Southern American literature no doubt.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 25 13:38:27 2016 No.8884182 >>8879190 In The Heart of The Heart of The Country has some stuff like that

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 25 13:54:27 2016 No.8884231 >>8883886 >Pacific North West >Gothic You should check out Meyers, Stephanie

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 25 14:24:39 2016 No.8884324 >>8884231 good one

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 25 23:30:47 2016 No.8885981 >>8884324 Thanks!

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 26 12:51:28 2016 No.8887331 File: 459 KB, 890x1024, 5430911321_ecbb8dd359_b.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 26 13:44:56 2016 No.8887484 >>8882911 I know no one asked for this list, but it looks great. Thanks for posting.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 26 19:21:38 2016 No.8888658 Carl Sandburg

Anonymous Mon Dec 26 19:40:30 2016 No.8888729

>>8887484

No problem. Always looking out for stuff that vibes like this. Though really, you could probably reduce that list down to Paris, Texas and Stranded in Canton (and add 'Bright Leaves') and have perhaps the three premier southern films.

Shit almost forgot about 'Nashville'

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 27 01:19:31 2016 No.8889761 >>8888729 Cheers

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 27 01:39:47 2016 No.8889784 Edward Abbey and Leslie Silko might be worth checking out.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 27 02:03:56 2016 No.8889820 >>8889784 Edward Abbey is great

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 27 12:15:39 2016 No.8890950 Phillip Roth - American Pastoral

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 27 15:34:26 2016 No.8891566 DOGS ON MAIN STREET HOWL CAUSE THEY UNDERSTAND IF I COULD TAKE ONE MOMENT INTO MY HAND

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 27 17:39:24 2016 No.8892002 >>8882911 >Stroszek >Paris, Texas It must be because they're European, but Herzog and Wenders somehow manage to make films about America that feel as if they take place elsewhere. Both seem to have a very grim view of the US.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 27 20:08:08 2016 No.8892551 >>8892260

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 27 23:28:22 2016 No.8893213 >>8892002 Wim Wenders has always been more U2 than Springsteen imo

Anonymous Tue Dec 27 23:58:53 2016 No.8893330

>>8892002

>>8892002

America is big enough to encompass 'grim,' desu. I'll give you that Stroszek is perhaps a bit too oddball to be a true blue American movie, but Paris, Texas reverberates at least for this USr

To that film list I would add in 'Nebraska' which is a perfect little movie.

To add to the actual intent of this post, I'd add:

Jesus Son, another one by Denis Johnson
The Arizona parts of Bastard of Istanbul, by Elif Safak
And rather pulpy, but The Blessing Way, by Tony Hillerman. Reads like chocolate. Leans toward Southwest exclusive

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 28 00:07:01 2016 No.8893369 >>8892002 It's because they came from German new wave which predicated itself upon anti-Hollywood sensibilities

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 28 00:14:20 2016 No.8893406 >>8883886 >>8884231 raymond carver

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 28 00:15:44 2016 No.8893413 >>8890950 I haven't read the book, but I was always under the impression it was set in like, New Jersey or something

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 28 00:39:31 2016 No.8893530 >>8893406 Of course! This absolutely! Run, don't walk to 'So Much Water, So Close to Home.' About as perfect a short thing you can get in English

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 28 00:42:39 2016 No.8893544 >>8882911 Clean, Shaven

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 28 01:12:42 2016 No.8893655 >>8893406 >>8893530 Awesome

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 28 01:17:26 2016 No.8893670 Like the swans

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 28 11:25:06 2016 No.8894854 >>8893670 Is that a book?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 28 11:47:32 2016 No.8894941 >>8882790 Evenings on the Farm Near Dikanka is excellent. If feels like what great Midwest-American literature could be, if we actually produced any literature to speak of.

Anonymous Wed Dec 28 16:46:47 2016 No.8896310

>>8894941

Wow that's oddly inspiring. I am a proponent of the idea that sometimes, once a field has been fallow awhile (here the Midwest/Southwest focus of the thread), the best voice to analyze it might be someone outside of the culture.

Would you have any other similar "left-of-field" recommendations?

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 29 00:20:03 2016 No.8898126 >>8879201 >>8879190 Don Delillo - Underworld

Anonymous Thu Dec 29 00:49:14 2016 No.8898230
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I felt like making a thread like this one and then I saw it. Come on fellas, let's get more recs like OP and others have suggested. Suggested feeling desired: Doom.

Dumping some thematically appropriate pictures

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 29 00:50:21 2016 No.8898237 File: 1.25 MB, 1280x720, tumblr_n6giix14TS1tzcyr2o1_1280.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>8898230

Anonymous Thu Dec 29 00:51:24 2016 No.8898240

>>8879190

I hesitate to post this because they're rare finds, but what the hell. I might as well give it a shot.

A Nickels Worth of Skim Milk -- Robert J. Hastings
A Knight of Another Sort: Prohibition Days and Charlie Birger -- Gary DeNeal.

I come from Southern Illinois which shouldn't be much different from any corner of the midwest, but we've had our share of interesting history in the early 20th century from riotous union members to local gangsters who fought the Klan in the days of prohibition.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 29 00:51:28 2016 No.8898241 File: 1.41 MB, 1280x720, tumblr_n6gilo7uF11tzcyr2o1_1280.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>8898237

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 29 00:53:28 2016 No.8898247 File: 1.30 MB, 1280x720, tumblr_n89a7gHMIM1tzcyr2o1_1280.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>8898241

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 29 00:54:30 2016 No.8898251 >>8898240 These look good, man. You ever read Black's 'You Can't Win'?

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 29 11:51:13 2016 No.8899653 >>8898230 >>8898237 >>8898241 >>8898247 More!

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 29 12:05:05 2016 No.8899729 True West by Sam Shepard

Anonymous Thu Dec 29 12:25:36 2016 No.8899822

>>8896310
I dunno. A lot of literature from Protestant Europe I feel has an affinity with the Midwest. And really, we are the long-lost cousins of the New Englanders, so culturally we have a lot in common.

I'm just waiting for the great Midwestern writer to come along and change the whole literary scene. It would be nice if I could be that writer, but I think the odds of that happening are one in a million.

Anonymous Thu Dec 29 12:30:50 2016 No.8899837

>>8899822
>It would be nice if I could be that writer, but I think the odds of that happening are one in a million.
You never know until you try. It's all about attitude. No great writer has ever accomplished anything by saying "Oh I could never do that". Even if only 1 or 2 people end up reading your book and loving it, I think that in itself is worth it.

Anonymous Thu Dec 29 13:39:10 2016 No.8900126

>>8898240
>I come from Southern Illinois which shouldn't be much different from any corner of the midwest, but we've had our share of interesting history in the early 20th century from riotous union members to local gangsters who fought the Klan in the days of prohibition.

Neato

Anonymous Thu Dec 29 14:02:00 2016 No.8900237
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>>8899653

Full disclosure, these are a buddies of mine. Gonna throw more of those out there as well as a whole mess of Eggleston just to keep the vibes in this comfy thread up

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 29 14:03:05 2016 No.8900242 File: 1.15 MB, 1280x720, nipaypQorW1tzcyr2o1_1280.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>8899653

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 29 14:04:10 2016 No.8900246 File: 51 KB, 620x414, 5548701.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>8899653 "Select All Images with a Store Front" core

Anonymous Thu Dec 29 14:05:36 2016 No.8900254
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>>8899653

>>8899822
>>8899837

Yeah, and whats more, you can't help but me from the place you're from. The stuff will come out if you sit at the desk and stay awake for most of it

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 29 14:15:29 2016 No.8900294 >>8900254 And what's more, let's get a comfy theme appropriate playlist going https://youtu.be/0juy8Etpuak https://youtu.be/rU_70EX3m_Y https://youtu.be/0ghXad3cWnY https://youtu.be/gwg2sdRdahM https://youtu.be/NqCIyT1zFSE

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 29 15:39:54 2016 No.8900670 >>8900294 >101.9 KINK My mom's favorite radio station

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 29 17:02:37 2016 No.8901032 If someone didn't already mention MemeCarthy's the Border trilogy is just great for the southwest portion of this thread. Also Middlesex by Eugenides Maybe The Corrections? Also, if not a little outdated, Bellow could work here and there

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 29 20:59:32 2016 No.8902033 >>8901032 Eugenides is great

Anonymous Thu Dec 29 22:53:35 2016 No.8902468
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>>8879190

Rain Dogs by Sean Doolittle is crime fiction that hits that spot you describe. Strong on mood, good book.

The Cleanup by Doolittle is a tick or two better as crime fiction, set in Omaha in the winter.

In Cold Blood taps deep into the midwest mood/feel including the gothic/scarifying side.

Great Plains by Ian Frazier is non-fiction, travel-writing plus some history. Great read, beautiful descriptions of the land.

The Desert Rose by Larry McMurtry. Set in the arid parts of Las Vegas with a vivid sense of place.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 30 00:33:10 2016 No.8902931 >>8902468 thanks!

Anonymous Fri Dec 30 01:10:22 2016 No.8903023

>>8879190

Okay, what we have so far:

DRUDGERY EAST OF THE MISSISSIPPI: MIDWEST AND ENVIRONS

Middlesex, by Eugenides
In the Heart of the Heart of the Country: And Other Stories, by William H. Gass
Jesus Son, by Denis Johnson
Selected Poems, by Carl Sandburg
American Pastoral, by Philip Roth (set in Jersey, but hey, OP has a Springsteen pic up)
The Corrections, by Jonathan Franzen
Rain Dogs, by Sean Doolittle
The Cleanup, by Sean Doolittle
In Cold Blood, by Truman Capote
A Nickel's Worth of Skim Milk, by Robert J. Hastings
A Knight of Another Sort: Prohibition Days and Charlie Birger, by Gary DeNeal
Great Plains, by Ian Frazer
STRUNG ALONG A RATTLESNAKE SPEEDWAY: THE SOUTHWEST

Angels, by Denis Johnson
Dog of the South, by Charles Portis
Play it as it Lays, by Joan Didion
Essays, by Joan Didion
The Desert Rose, by Larry McMurtry
The Last Picture Show & Texasville, by Larry McMurtry
Tony Hillerman detective pulp (‘The Blessing Way’ was recommended down the list)
Cannery Row, by John Steinbeck

CASCADIA FOR THE CRANIA: THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST

So Much Water, So Close to Home, by Raymond Carver

NEAR MISSES?

Evenings on the Farm Near Dikanka, by Gogol
The Broom of the System (Haven’t read, can anybody vouch for this as being in line with goal?)
Edward Abbey (Though good, off the mark)
Leslie Silko (while definitely “southwest,” I wouldn’t say she matches overall with the requested vibe)
The Dark Tower Series (No)
Bastard of Istanbul, by Elif Safak (A good one, but waaay more about Armenians)
Underworld, by Don Delillo (again, this is set square in New York, so while great, iffy)
You Can’t Win, by Frank Black (just straight up Depression era stuff)

Anonymous Fri Dec 30 01:17:17 2016 No.8903042

>>8879252
>>8879304

I just read middlesex. Here's a lil quote about some classic Midwestern shit: (He's talking about wealthy people at a prepschool)

"They lived near the water and had grown up, like all Grosse Pointers, pretending that our shallow lake was no lake at all but actually the ocean. The Atlantic Ocean. Yes, that was the secret wish of the Charm Bracelets and their parents, to be not Midwesterners but Easterners, to affect their dress and lockjaw speech, to summer in Martha's Vineyard, so say 'back East' instead of 'out East,' as though their time in Michigan represented only a brief sojourn away from home."

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 30 01:20:28 2016 No.8903049 >>8893530 'So Much Water, So Close to Home' has got to be one of my favorite stories ever. Excellent stuff

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 30 01:22:59 2016 No.8903054 https://youtu.be/tilBs32zN7I

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 30 03:22:37 2016 No.8903292 >>8879190 >>8903023 >Desert SW If we're getting close to LA is that not right?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 30 05:42:08 2016 No.8903529 >>8903292 LA is unique, but southern california outskirts are fair game

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 30 06:07:24 2016 No.8903590 File: 124 KB, 360x576, heart-of-the-heart.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] William Gass: Omensetter's Luck and In the Heart of the Heart of the Country

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 30 12:56:08 2016 No.8904612 >>8903590 Are you memeing or serious? I've never read Gass btw.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 30 20:46:26 2016 No.8906233 >>8904612 No, he's good. Gaddis too.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 30 21:09:02 2016 No.8906281 >>8884182 I was gonna rec this. Gass is kind of Midwestern gothic in that book.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 31 00:16:02 2016 No.8906744 >>8906281 Oh cool.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 31 00:39:02 2016 No.8906792 >>8906281 His essays are also stuff you have to run to. Less the topic of thread, but just beautiful beautiful

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 31 10:13:05 2016 No.8908048 >>8903590 this

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 31 17:37:14 2016 No.8909640 >>8903023 I've been reading Dog of the South recently and LOVE it

Anonymous Sat Dec 31 18:04:06 2016 No.8909722
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>>8903590
>>8904612
>>8906233

I'll throw my hat into the Gass recommendations

>>8909640
Charles Portis is criminally underrated. True Grit for example is leagues beyond either of the films

Pic is exactly what OP is looking for (Southwest Strain)

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 31 18:26:08 2016 No.8909821 Marilynne Robinson 100%

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 1 03:16:36 2017 No.8911429 >>8909821 any works in particular you recommend?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 1 12:49:25 2017 No.8912662 Keeping this alive

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 1 13:06:29 2017 No.8912715 File: 115 KB, 775x1223, hardrain0001.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>8883886 Hard Rain Falling takes place in Portland, and is worth reading.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 1 14:27:16 2017 No.8912949 >>8912662 Yeah, this is a strong thread. Slow and steady. >>8909821 Gilead is deep Presbyterian Iowa shuffling around. Insidious this time of the year

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 1 18:44:44 2017 No.8914020 >>8882484 A big part of DFW's literary hangups was his consciousness to being (or feeling he had to be) the next 'great white midwest author.' For that reason, hafta submit TPK

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 1 18:57:23 2017 No.8914071 File: 318 KB, 1280x960, tumblr_ns1yj8jUPO1sicb5ko1_1280.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Southwestern gothic: Stephen King, Desperation.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 1 21:07:47 2017 No.8914606 >>8879190 Faulkner

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 1 23:18:11 2017 No.8915052 >>8914606 this. The GOAT.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 2 01:15:19 2017 No.8915364 >>8914020 Is it actually good though?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 2 08:35:42 2017 No.8916345 >>8879190 Quality thread, bumping for curiosity.

Anonymous Mon Jan 2 15:11:13 2017 No.8917592

Anyone have books related to mining in the Southwest, historical or fictional whatever? Gold and silver or coal mining which are the more obvious ones are fine, but stuff like copper and zinc and diamond and talc mines which began to take more prominence the latter part of 1800s and very common well into the 20th century many fell victim to a decline Cold War era .

Anonymous Mon Jan 2 18:42:52 2017 No.8918479

>>8915364

You have to treat it as it is, which is an unfinished novel. At least by my definitions, that rather more takes it out of the running as far as being comparable to any of the other works here. However, for what we're looking for as far as this thread goes, there are sections within (and it is a biggin) which I'd say qualify for what we're looking for, being of the regions around Chicago. Some of those sections is right there among the best of anything the guy ever wrote. But of course, those good bits are surrounded by waves of fractured stuff that would perhaps interest the DFW first over someone merely searching for deeper geographic fiction. I recommend it merely as a supplemental consideration to these already worthwhile recommendations.

Anonymous Mon Jan 2 18:47:32 2017 No.8918501

>>8917592

Pinecone's Against the Day has huge sections going over exactly what you're looking for, though again, wrapped in a tome that deals with just as many other things. But what's in there that is about that you would love:

"Well, it was sure another world they were riding through, a waking dream. Saltflats in the rain, no horizon, mountains and their mirage-reflections like skulls of animals from other times, washed in a white shimmer . . . sometimes you could see all the way to a planetary horizon warped into an arc. Eastbound storms were likely to carry snow with some thunder and lightning thrown in, and the valley fog was the same color as the snow."

The book is set from 1893 to some vague period juuust after the first world war. And it is good for that, but again, only if you already felt inclined. I'm sure others could recommend you better stuff.

Oh, and if you haven't already seen Treasure of the Sierra Madre, RUN in that direction and watch it

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 2 21:12:06 2017 No.8918996 I've never read southern gothic, where should i start? >i enjoyed true detective

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 2 21:15:52 2017 No.8919010 >>8918996 Flannery O'Connor

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 2 21:26:16 2017 No.8919033 If you're into mystery then Tony Hillerman's Tribal Police books are all set in the Desert SouthWest and draw heavily from Navajo and Hopi culture in that region.

Anonymous Mon Jan 2 21:28:26 2017 No.8919036

>>8918996

If True Detective is the metric you're looking for, the aforementioned books might not be a hundred percent up your alley, as thus far this thread has been more along the lines of covering the day-to-day milleau of the geographies entailed. A quotidian rather than cosmic dread.

That said, if you like True Detective, I'd recommend

- 2666, by Roberto Bolaño
- Angels, and Jesus Son, by Denis Johnson (both deal with crime as well as dusty, shadowy towns)
- I second the recommendation of Flannery O'Connor. Try Wise Blood for something a little longer, or start with 'A Good Man Is Hard to Find'
- Good old Cormac MemeCarthy, who if a little toypianoish on the whole, still makes for good, doomy reading
- Hell, H.P. Lovecraft. Just don't get stuck in there for too long. People have a tendency of falling into the Lovecraft hole and forgetting writing isn't just a set up for that weird feeling you get when you try to chase the things in the corner of your eye. Though more power to him

I haven't read The King in Yellow, that book referenced heavily from the first season, so I can't say if that would actually match the ambiance were looking for, or if it was more of a tonal/symbolic reference.

Finally and despite what the craft of the second season would suggest, I believe that that Pizzalotto guy is actually a writer unto his own regard, so logically that would be the quickest route to the vein.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 2 21:30:01 2017 No.8919039 >>8919033 Not OP, but yeah I love Hillerman's stuff. The Dark Wind is a pretty good starter. And unto itself, Hillerman books, as with McMurtry books, are some of the only books you can find in smalltown bookshops

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 3 00:47:44 2017 No.8919579 >>8919039 Cool

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 3 00:52:51 2017 No.8919595 >>8883886 Horror author Laird Barron

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 3 03:00:57 2017 No.8919895 >>8918501 Thanks a lot!

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 3 12:31:42 2017 No.8921262 >>8919036 Nice

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 3 19:16:40 2017 No.8923040 Bump

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 3 22:18:40 2017 No.8923831 Elizabeth Bishop E.B. White Martha Gellhorn Eudora Welty Paul Horgan J.F. Powers John Cheever Donald Barthelme Raymond Carver

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 08:32:27 2017 No.8925446 Anyone know of Great Lakes gothic?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 12:39:25 2017 No.8926389 >>8879190 >SJW millionaire with a fake tax farm he uses to dodge those huge Democrat taxes he loves so much >claims to be a voice to Joe Beer Gut, the working class, and the hero of post-war Americana Springsteen is a hack

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 16:25:23 2017 No.8928000 >>8919036 >toypianoish What does this mean?

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 16:33:42 2017 No.8928045

>>8928000

Checked.

Anyway, He doesn’t want to be literary and hangs out with physicists, but he writes novels and has nothing to say about science. To me there’s always been something toypianoish about his stuff, so I guess by this I mean there's a sort of distance between how comfortable McCarthy feels about being a writer that translates into his work. Maybe that’s the point, but the corrective value of antinovels becomes at some point, the disease.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 16:34:46 2017 No.8928051 >>8928045 Though of course, I still feel that the Border Trilogy is some of the best stuff out of anywhere these past 30-40 years

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 16:40:02 2017 No.8928081 >>8928051 I always thought McCarthy was just a meme writer

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 18:14:13 2017 No.8928555
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>>8928081
Not that anon, I'm >>8928000

But I think McCarthy is the natural next step of a literature legacy, starting with Shakespeare, then Melville, then Conrad (though I've been argued about his placement more than the others) and then McCarthy. I think he succeeds because of what >>8928045 talks about with his kind of outsider entry into the literature, like his immediate approach allows him to get a pulse on the medium. The same could be said for filmmakers like Herzog and, more so, Malick. I don't think what McCarthy is doing is the true evolution of writing, but I think he is certainly a rightful descendent of his lineage.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 18:26:24 2017 No.8928616 >>8882911 Blood Simple Gross Pointe Blank

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 18:27:21 2017 No.8928621

>>8928045
>>8928045

you came into this thread with an opinion already made and wanted to just hear the thing you already knew, right?

and when I tell you what I think it is (and I know it for certain) but it doesn't correspond with your first guess that you made before you even made these posts, you suddenly act like you're the victim that everyone isn't listening to and is abusing him or whatever the fuck you may think and everyone is telling you the wrong answer, right, you little baby? I hate attitude like that

either make a fucking post and don't act superior and just appreciate all the answers (especially the correct one like my answer was) or shut the fuck up because nobody will ever take you seriously or reply to your posts if your reaction is always like this one

seriously fuck off

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 18:51:09 2017 No.8928757 >>8928621 K

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 21:10:26 2017 No.8929403 File: 184 KB, 1280x731, 11675.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 21:26:33 2017 No.8929456

>>8928621

Somebody's got the coffee on

I was responding to an inquiry (this one >>8928000) about a post I made (this one >>8919036). Based off of the incomprehensibility of your vitriol, I'm presuming you made a mistake in who you were addressing (which hey, on an anonymous image board we all do) as I don't feel that my posts actually warrant that level of criticism.

But of course, pot calling the kettle black, I'll admit the same of myself on any point I may feel about McCarthy. I'm not his biggest fan, though I do like some of his stuff. But I recognize how not even the highest form of criticism reaches the ankles of work itself, and prostrate myself to only wanting to further off suggestions on the theme of this thread, which I've been enjoying.

Lets keep this thread classy

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 21:27:59 2017 No.8929458 >>8929403 LOVE IT. I'm going to shoot a short film in the midwest and I was considering doing it in black and white. That photo certainly pushes my decision toward b&w.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 21:32:24 2017 No.8929474 >>8929458 Nice. What's the nature of the short film if you don't mind my asking?

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 21:45:42 2017 No.8929516
File: 90 KB, 560x309, Un'Istoria.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>8929474
The "readymade" summarization I came up with just so I have something to say to producers, actors, etc. is that its about "the terror and beauty of existential angst in the grotesque midwest, all under the banner of intemporality and meaninglessness."

The process of filmmaking is probably more important than anything, as it involves my crew and I going into locations and sort of creating the story there, basing it on what we come across. It is, in a way, a future-facing narrative where instead of trying to make the present match what was written in the past the now and arriving future assemble the narrative. And it's totally collaborative -- the few "tests" I conducted of this method felt like filmmaking jazz.

A lot of the aesthetic is inspired by our man McCarthy, but to an extent unseen in adaptations of his work, which all try to render his work to fit into the conventions of cinema. Part of my goal is to deconstruct aspects of cinema if it means approaching that aesthetic.

There's a lot more to it than that (I've written "dogmas" for how the actors should be on film, which is heavily based on Bresson's model method) but I think you can tell this is a hard thing to summarize.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 21:48:49 2017 No.8929527 >>8929516 And, now that I think about it, b&w might be too limiting. There's something about the deep brown of midwestern soil that would be lost in b&w.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 21:52:21 2017 No.8929541 >>8929516 Sounds like pleb shit.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 22:05:57 2017 No.8929589 >>8929541 Can you explain why?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 22:20:50 2017 No.8929646 >>8929589 Who are you trying to impress, kid?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 22:23:14 2017 No.8929653 >>8929646 I'd love to hear some criticism, but that's not helpful.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 22:32:38 2017 No.8929698 >>8929516 I like it

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 22:34:34 2017 No.8929705

>>8929653

Ignore him, it's the easiest thing in the world, almost feels like a homecoming, when we bend to self-conceit enough to criticize someone actually out there making art

Well, I say your second guess is right, but not because b&w is limiting. There's the old thing about b&w being an actors best friend because it draws all (as opposed to most) attention to the face and body. If you're shooting as much out on plains and landscapes as I'm inferring from your post, then that sort of "distraction" shouldn't be a problem. But hey, since your approach is future assembly, I trust it will work out when you get there.

I definitely recommend checking out the Denis Johnson books if you can, especially Angels.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 22:47:46 2017 No.8929756
File: 282 KB, 1000x730, Des.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>8929705
Thanks for the support, man. I really appreciate that.

I think you're right with the b&w. There will be a lot of plains and other open landscapes, so painting them to be colorless could create a strong, desolate tone. There's a recent film called The Better Angels which depicts a b&w rural Kentucky beautifully, but its a different kind of beauty than what I'm aiming for.

But, I think you're also right that this is a matter to better be decided when we come to it. And I just read the first couple pages of Angels and already ordered myself a copy.

This thread is incredibly inspirational, honestly.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 22:49:22 2017 No.8929766 >>8929756 Do you have any exceprts of a screenplay or anything?

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 23:04:56 2017 No.8929837
File: 39 KB, 499x500, Desiderio.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>8929766
Besides all I've written on the process/method, I have a ton of notes on the two protagonists of the film. All the information on them is gathered by inference and I'm going to make sure that there are no scenes of explicit exposition. If somebody, impromptu, asks one of the characters what their name is then the audience may learn.

I also have what I call the "bin," which is a collection of imagery/scenes that I'm not intending to create on the screen but to keep in the back of my head. So, instead of going into a place and turning it into the scene, I am contingent to the space evoking anything from the bin.

But by far the most I've written on it is concerned with the process. I did start another script a couple days ago that I got 10 pages into and, even though it's super unrefined, I'd be happy to share an excerpt from that if you're interested.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 23:33:28 2017 No.8929953 >>8929837 Please do.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 23:48:32 2017 No.8929997

>>8929837

Yeah, that'd be something special. And I'm glad you ordered Angels, it'll stay with ya. Years after first reading it, some if the passages are won't to flash by once again mercury like.

And the Better Angels is a fantastic film, though I'm biased toward anything within the environs of Lincoln or Malick (even if the latter was only producinh). Indeed, I feel I know what you're talking about when you say that a movie like that is an inspiration without being something you would want to emulate, what with that style being so distinct. More a parallel influence, a reminder if what you can do with brains and eyes and the stuff around you

Anonymous Thu Jan 5 00:11:06 2017 No.8930064
File: 65 KB, 1280x688, Mălaimare Jr17.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>8929953
Alright, here's some chunks from it. Again, its super unrefined, almost as bare and sketchy as it gets:

Horrified black eye. Weak but shook. We push back to show who it belongs to: a dead white mare, suspended by barded wire wet with blood. A tan hand enters frame and pats its thigh.
Cut to the old man as he pulls his hand back. Long exhale as he scans down. Shakes his head. Bows down and begins to whisper, salt in his breath:
OLD MAN
Sabrán que vivimos.
Sabrán que vivimos.
Wide as he pushes the shell in. The dawn turns from extraterrestrial blue to fierce pink and then a warm peach. Don't be mistaken, this planet is our own. He raises the gun. Trees begin to lean with the wind. Horse moves again and delivers a long, ragged whinny. Gunshot.
He walks back to his place. An old man in is island, isolated except for the worker who we see: James Riley, in the middle of something, maybe all sweaty and sleeping. The man sits, exasperated, but he eats his dinner. He tells James he has to forget his work for tomorrow: he's got to untangle the horse and fix the fence -- refers to the horse as a she. James asks how he should do that? Should I chop it up? (humor to alleviate the situation) the old man is too tired and sad to give it any thought, just tells him to figure it out. James says OK and gets up to give the old man his space.
[…]
A place, happening. Motion to contrast. It's St. Louis, people in midst of their festivities, not an open celebration but some kind of unadmittable swan song. Society cranks its wheels. Oil in the streets. A child with a concave bullet scar in his shoulder inspects his rainbowed and warped reflection in the puddle but then jolts up to follows a bunch of sailors. James makes his way through that crowd, and we now follow him.
He steps across the pier (shotgun slung around his shoulder like he's hunting quail) and talks to a man with a fierce red tan sitting in front of a ferry, who lazily waves to an older fella down a dock. We stay with that red man but see James go over and talk to that old fella, striking a quick deal. The sun shines through the smoke stack of the ferry and the red man slaps his nape and then nods his head at nothing at all.

Anonymous Thu Jan 5 00:12:41 2017 No.8930067
File: 37 KB, 1280x688, Mălaimare Jr58.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>8930064
Here's some more:

Hard cut to an assembly of the Jovians, most of them in their evening wear. This is an emergency summon. We have portrait shots of their faces, a variety of expressions: wide eye and fierce curiosity of children, bearded old men shaking their heads slowly, women scanning her up and down over and over, and then finally James in awe. He stands in front of everyone else alongside hothead.
Cut to a wide, their and her backs facing us. We see patriarch enter and watch him slowly step in front of her. Hits his heels together when he stops. Closeup of him, leaning in to inspect her, looking down at her but then lowers his chin, giving her a deep glare into her eyes.
Cut to her, a similar stare: we learn from this his lowering was to match gaze.
PATRIARCH (O.C.)
A specific question as if it comes from wisdom, like he knows exactly what to ask. Arrogant, in that way. It is not "who are you?"
No response.
PATRIARCH
He elaborates on the question: not deeper in, but conveying that he knows more about what he's asking i.e. “How about Prussian? Chinese?"
No response. She scowls slightly.
Cut back to him, gaze still fixed and glassy. Eyes going side to side as if he's reading and she's a book. He rises up, pushing mouth in. Prideful expression, as if he knows what Plan B is and isn't making it up during this theatric. [shallow focus for these closeups].
Cut to a wide as he puts his hands behind his back and slowly walks up the stage, looking down as if he is going over the coming course of action and not making up what he's going to do then and there. He gets on the stage, takes his time, addressing the instruments. He walks over to the gramophone and puts his hand on its base. Promptly turns and asks:

Anonymous Thu Jan 5 00:13:45 2017 No.8930070
File: 134 KB, 1280x688, Mălaimare Jr1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>8930067
Cont'd:

PATRIARCH
Eli, can you come up here please?

The player promptly comes up, stands next to patriarch, patriarch motions him to play ("please") and Percy, a bit puzzled at first, follows through as patriarch gives another wave of his hand.
He calls more and more people up to add to the musical number, adjusting the seating and posture of some as if this were a prestigious recital. They perform in their evening wear. A medium of him by one of them, "the last piece," and he steps back to the front of the stage, allthewhile not facing us. He scans and inspects them, makes sure they are all perfect, the players now out of focus, shadows of night-clothes and brass in smooth motion. He puts his hands behind his back and for a moment lets the music play and then he turns to her.
Closeup of her, but now a slight downer, from his perspective but closer or maybe not, maybe we see her in her space.
Wide of him as he turns the rest of his body towards her, smiling. Then he waves both his hands for everyone to come in and sing in their choir spots, alongside her. They flock over, as they do so:
Cut to James, curious. The rest of the people leave the frame and he is alone, only the barely-lit wall behind him, himself lit only by what comes his way from the stage lights. He is almost in a void. Reminded to use that he witnessed it all. He looks at all of it, the scene, but then focuses his gaze.
The back of her head, O.O.F. bodies swaying all around her still self (her black clothing sticking along with stillness separating her from the mostly grayish/brown evening wear and stage in front/around her, and inverse of the color composition from the previous shot which was a lighter body surrounded by near-black). Strawberry blond.

Anonymous Thu Jan 5 00:20:54 2017 No.8930099
File: 203 KB, 500x377, Desideri.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>8929997
I'm excited to go into it. It'll be nice to get more of a variety of influence than McCarthy, who is by far the strongest inspiration.

And Better Angels is terrific, though I feel like it goes too far toward replication of Malick's work as opposed to just being influenced. I think they emulated the "style" very well but there are some scenes that are almost shot-for-shot lifted from Malick's films and those moments pulled me right out. Still an incredible picture. And you're exactly right with the approach of my film being alongside its influences rather than trying to pretend to be them. I'm making sure that what inspires me is the base where I can build my own language instead of trying to do what they did before.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 5 04:43:42 2017 No.8930852 >>8930064 >>8930067 >>8930070 >>8930099 This is neat. I like it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 5 05:47:58 2017 No.8931006 >>8929997 I'll have to check it out

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 5 11:10:22 2017 No.8931776 Anything like this in the Northeast?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 5 14:26:16 2017 No.8932463 You aint dying yet

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 5 14:27:03 2017 No.8932469 >>8930099 dig the setting. definitely feel mccarthy.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 5 20:15:43 2017 No.8934000 bump, let's keep this dirge sexy

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 5 20:59:50 2017 No.8934199 Snow's coming tomorrow. Let's keep this thread toasty.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 5 23:28:04 2017 No.8934779 COMFY AMERICAN GOTHIC PLAYLIST ROUND 2: https://youtu.be/Sl8XlIAhOqY https://youtu.be/BxxKWGTtjNM https://youtu.be/UASyS-jUKKI https://youtu.be/GdgRMFlxTJk https://youtu.be/cNtpAeiEY4A https://youtu.be/D3Zm2z-tq90

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 5 23:39:06 2017 No.8934811 I think im just going to keep bumping this for the sake of it now

Anonymous Thu Jan 5 23:46:03 2017 No.8934830

>>8934811

I shall as well, but only because I like the idea of a seeming dual emphasis on geography in lit (especially those relatively neglected portions of America), as well as on a more concentrated dialogue about the several voices that exist in between the east coast literati who reign, and the ultra hip city stuff that catches online

I'd kinda like something like this to be a regular. While recommendations aren't sustainable, I think the commaraderie shared by all us litizens who aren't currently living in one of the cities with major publishing should be enough to warrant a place for it among the usual rolodex of DFW and Greco-Recos

Anonymous Fri Jan 6 00:36:35 2017 No.8935036
File: 22 KB, 299x259, tw.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Suprised nobody has mentioned Tom Waits, since we're throwing music into this aesthetic. Even though I don't think his work has a specific "setting" (mostly due to how he changes characters with almost every track) but it certainly seems to resonate with the midwest. For me, anyway.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 6 03:59:19 2017 No.8935596 >>8934830 Very much agreed.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 6 11:03:12 2017 No.8936528 >>8935036 Idk maybe this is just because my favorite of his is Rain Dogs, but he always felt like a New Orleans guy to me

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 6 12:10:57 2017 No.8936703 File: 3.91 MB, 6000x3015, DSC_0540.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>8934199 What latitude are you posting from? I'm from 60°10′N, the northernmost capital in the world

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 6 12:44:54 2017 No.8936773 >>8929403 That album was GOAT though.

Anonymous Fri Jan 6 12:45:50 2017 No.8936776

What elements do you think would characterize a potential contemporary movement of Midwestern Gothic? I'm trying to publish a novel set in Missouri and these are some of the motifs I hit on:
>Industrial and urban decay, fading cities and fleeing manufacturing capacity
>Alienation of suburban living and the effect of this on new generations
>Families broken by divorce or single parenthood
>General purposelessness in the light of a shit economy, religion sliding into irrelevance, skewed gender dynamics, and so on, and turning to casual pleasures that in turn foster anhedonia

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 6 12:58:54 2017 No.8936818 >>8936776 Hailing from the midwest, I'd include a sense of dislocation, like everywhere you go doesn't feel like an authentic "place."

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 6 14:11:15 2017 No.8937056 >>8936818 yup

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 6 14:13:10 2017 No.8937061 >>8936776 Lord that's on the money. To that I'd add; >the universal presence of screens and what effects they have in this specific area >Legal depressants sich as your codeines and what not. I see this shit everywhere

Anonymous Fri Jan 6 14:21:05 2017 No.8937083

>>8937061
I'd love to do something that juxtaposes culture in terms of technology, old vs. new. Life in the era of cassettes and records and analog tube tvs with antennas and such vs. life in the era of internet domination and smartphones and laptops and social media etc.

Most people don't realize there was (and still is in some places) a significant overlap in these two eras and a resulting culture clash (one that runs deeper than "kids these days and there danged gadgets" etc. etc.)

Anonymous Fri Jan 6 18:03:43 2017 No.8937980

>>8937083

There's something to be said how this particular period is unique relative to others. Millennialism(?), or the idea that we're collectively only one foot in this new century/millenium because this double set of new numbers (new century and new millenium) represents the unknown to us.

I have a working theory that people our age (twenties/thirties) are the last generation of the last millenium, and as such, we're at a loss for the right tools to deal wholly with this new century/millenium as we're still quite proverbially living with one foot in the past. I think the real exciting stuff is gonna come from people who were born just after the year 2000/2001. To them, this world which seems so alien now will be like the oxygen around them

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 6 18:52:21 2017 No.8938163 >>8937980 The world in which our parents, and we to some extent, grew up in will become a thing of the distant past, relegated to the history books, or whatever the equivalent of history books are.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 6 22:04:52 2017 No.8938963 Bump

Anonymous Fri Jan 6 23:39:44 2017 No.8939330

An interesting aspect of the midwest that I think a lot of people forget about is Chicago. What makes Chicago so different from other large cities is that with others like New York City the further you get from the city the less NYC it becomes in attitudes and look. The same is true for Chicago but as you go away eventually the midwest begins to pervade more and more which creates a weird mix of the two aesthetics and personalities.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 7 04:06:13 2017 No.8940166 >>8939330 Interesting observation

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 7 12:44:03 2017 No.8941497 Bump

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 7 18:27:10 2017 No.8943161 Dont die

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 7 18:32:32 2017 No.8943186 >>8939330 Travels with Charley if it isn't too Califor-ni-a

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