/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.6706189]

>It says here you found God through 4chan. Care to explain?

[Anonymous No.6706193]

People wear hats, which means they're wrong

[Anonymous No.6706195]

I don't have to explain anything to you, Mr. Hoffman. You're not my confessor.

[Anonymous No.6706206]

I kek'd OP

[Anonymous No.6706231]

I found God, gore, porn, shit, trannies, assholes, racists, dubs and idiots, but I close the window now and then and thankfully they go away.

[Anonymous No.6706643]

As he neared reddit on his journey, suddenly a light from the screen flashed around him. He fell to the ground, his fedora falling off, and heard a voice say to him, “Anon, Anon, why do you persecute me?”

“Who are you, Lord?” Anon asked.

"I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied. “Now get up and go to /lit/, and you will be told what you must do.”
Anon got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing but Christposts. For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink anything.


“Lord,” Anonias answered, “I have heard many reports about this man and all the harm he has done to your Christposters on /lit/. And he has come here with authority from the chief fedoras to arrest all who call on your name.”

But the Lord said to Anonias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their trips and to the people of 4chan. I will show him how much he must suffer for my name.”
Then Anonias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Anon, he said, “Brother Anon, the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here—has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” Immediately, something like scales fell from Anon’s eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized, and after taking some food, he regained his strength.

[Anonymous No.6706650]

>>6706643
10/10 thread so far.

[Anonymous No.6706757]

>>6706643
Amazing
/lit/ should write an exegisis of at least one of the Gospels
'The Legacy of Monotheism in a Desert' lel

[Anonymous No.6706768]

This is /lit/.
Book or GTFO

[Anonymous No.6706771]

>>6706643
Well done, sir.

[Anonymous No.6706772]

>>6706643

[Anonymous No.6706777]

>>6706757
>Legacy
Never again, anon.

[Anonymous No.6706824]

>>6706777
Once more unto the meme

At least finish 3

[Anonymous No.6706848]

>>6706772
tfw Christposting is making me religious

[Anonymous No.6706865]

>>6706189
I know of at least seven people who can say that.

There are none so bad that they cannot be saved, and none so good that they need not be saved.

[Anonymous No.6706883]

>>6706848
Pls don't encourage tem

[Anonymous No.6706884]

I was actually a Christian ever since I grew out of my edgy teenage fedora years. I think it comes down to having the right person talk to you about Jesus and get you started down the path to your personal salvation.

[Anonymous No.6706901]

>>6706884
Strange how /lit/ has an aversion to the greatest book of all time.

[Anonymous No.6706913]

>>6706883
Ah but he looks so loving and warm. And he is just chilling, smiling next to the tent, because he KNEW I would come back sooner or later. He loves me so much.

I need this

[Anonymous No.6706915]

>>6706901
Think the aversion is to the awful fanbois.

[Anonymous No.6706929]

>>6706913
The day you realize God is mad about you, and not mad at you, is a wonderful day, is it not?

[Anonymous No.6706970]

>>6706929
it is indeed brother.

daily reminder God is good

[Anonymous No.6707012]

>>6706929
He's still threatening me with hellfire, apparently for all the ebony porn, unless I come back and reject ebony porn. What the fuck, god? They're people, too.

[Anonymous No.6707018]

>>6706970
>And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.

[Anonymous No.6707027]

>>6707012
God doesn't care if you masturbate silly!

https://carm.org/masturbation

[Anonymous No.6707034]

>>6706189
Lolis and waifus are the only gods worthy of human worship. Everything else is slavery.

[Anonymous No.6707042]

>>6707012
Maybe it's the ebony bit, that makes them sound a lot less like people.

[Anonymous No.6707043]

>>6706970
Why would anyone need to be reminded of that?

[Anonymous No.6707045]

>>6707027
The deviations that lead away from god and into depression in that comic explicitly feature ebony porn. Not just any porn, it had to be ebony. But hey, he's just mad about me, not at me, at least I'm not black.

[Anonymous No.6707047]

>>6706772
>videogames can be artistic

every time

[Anonymous No.6707052]

>>6707012
God made us with deep needs for love, acceptance, meaning and purpose. Needs that only God can fill. So when you don't let God fill those needs for you, you seek love, and acceptance, and meaning, and purpose, in other things.

And nothing can satisfy; you only get trapped into vicious cycles of addiction and habituation.

God died to set you free.

[Anonymous No.6707053]

better to find God in hell then satan in heaven

[Anonymous No.6707057]

>>6707043
Because most people believe the father of lies about the nature and character of God.

[Anonymous No.6707059]

>>6707045
Lol'd

[Anonymous No.6707064]

>>6707043
Death, war, ebola, cancer, spree killers, pedophiles etc, can easily make you forget it?

[Anonymous No.6707070]

>>6707042
What an ungodly thing to say.
>>6707052
>you seek love, and acceptance, and meaning, and purpose, in other things
Yeah, can't have that. Thank you for telling me that eberything in my life is without value, that is so friendly and reassuring, and totally not a cheap attempt at manipulating the needy.

[Anonymous No.6707090]

>>6706189
/lit/ helped me find philosophy which lead to spinoza who has one of the few theologies i actually believe

>tfw spinoza was considered an atheist in his time

[Anonymous No.6707091]

>>6707045
The point of the comic is that all those things down the path are novelties that distract people

"ebony porn" is not some metaphysical acceptance of others from different races, its a novelty used for sexual gratification and in doing so its, if anything, more racist than anything else you are implying.

[Anonymous No.6707096]

>>6707070
You've just now come to the realization that without God, life is nasty, brutish and short, and without meaning or purpose?

In what way am I manipulating you, by pointing out the obvious?

[Anonymous No.6707101]

>das religion meme
>>>/s4s/

[Anonymous No.6707105]

Christianity is a religion for the weak and those who fear death.

All the christposting in the world cannot convince an atheist, againt his belief in christianity being an absurd religion.

[Anonymous No.6707107]

>>6707090
>tfw Spinoza is still considered an atheist

[Anonymous No.6707111]

>>6707105
ooga booga, you'll go to heck
there, if that doesn't do it, nothing will

[Anonymous No.6707116]

>>6707091
>its a novelty used for sexual gratification and in doing so its, if anything, more racist than anything else you are implying
Fuck off, there is nothing racist about that.
>>6707096
>without God, life is nasty, brutish and short, and without meaning or purpos
For you. Note how this is almost a Hobbes quote, and it fulfills the same purpose as it did with Hobbes' affirmation of the state, getting people to submit out of fear. And yes, this is manipulative, you're acting on the assumption that I am unhappy, downright desperate, and you try to use that as leverage to get me to join your club.

[Anonymous No.6707117]

>>6707105
hating weakness is literally a sign of psychopathy.

[Anonymous No.6707121]

>>6707116
But you sound unhappy

[Anonymous No.6707124]

>>6707116
Almost Hobbes?

I don't believe what you believe; I do not believe that life is nasty, brutish and short, and without meaning or purpose, because I know God.

[Anonymous No.6707131]

>>6707105
Are you not weak?

Do you not fear death?

[Anonymous No.6707132]

>>6707121
I'm some anon on the internet. I don't sound like anything. Your moves are still transparently dick moves, though.

[Anonymous No.6707133]

>>6707124
And Hobbes didn't believe that life had to be brutish nasty and short, because he knew we could submit to the souvereign.

[Anonymous No.6707134]

>>6706189
>tfw reading all those thology book make me consider in a serious way to convert to christianity, islam or go full retard like Evola

/lit/ please help me.

[Anonymous No.6707135]

>>6707101

[Anonymous No.6707140]

>>6707116
>have black gf, in long distance relationship
>want to jerk to black girl with white guy because self insert
>OOGAH BOOGAH OH MASSA YO WHITE DICK SO BIG IM SORRY I TRIED TO SEAL YO TV MMMH THAT WHITE DICK TOO GOOD THOUGH IMA HAVE TO COME BACK


no, not radicalized at all.

thank god i quite watching all porn and polluting my mind.
If you cant jerk it to /s/ and limit yourself to like 2 times a week you have issues and porn has become a distraction in your life.

You don't even need to be a christian to understand this. If you think porn is not specifically designed to hook you into a perpetual fantasy then you have 0 fucking idea at how insidious it is as a capitalism machination of sexual control

[Anonymous No.6707141]

>>6707133
Indeed.

And there is a sovereign above all sovereigns; a King of all kings, and a Lord of all lords.

[Anonymous No.6707142]

>>6707131

I trust in my powers reasonably know my limits, but don't claim to have knoledge that a super-natural entity dictates our lives or such a thing as reality beyond this exists.

And I fear death just as much as the next man, but enough to warrant to belive that there an absurd reward or punishment system after life.

[Anonymous No.6707144]

>>6707135
>meme jew
might as well have posted a rage comic
go back to r/4chan or whatever

[Anonymous No.6707148]

>>6707140
One of the best evidences of mind control is the knee jerk reaction to deny that there exists any mind control.

[Anonymous No.6707151]

>>6707132
>im some anon on the internet
>I don't sound like anything

Walk me through how you arrived at point B from point A

[Anonymous No.6707152]

>>6707144

[Anonymous No.6707155]

>>6707142
So if I understand you correctly, you realize that you are weaker than God, and that you do indeed fear death as much as the next man.

By your own words, is Christianity not then for you?

[Anonymous No.6707156]

>>6707152
take all my upvotes, good sir

[Anonymous No.6707157]

>>6707148
>you proved my point by trying to disprove it

Really clever anon, you rekt him

[Anonymous No.6707160]

>>6707157
I am not a clever man; I am a simple man. I prefer life to death; good to evil; God to the devil; heaven to hell. It does seem simple to me to come to these conclusions.

[Anonymous No.6707161]

I consider becoming christian but it seems impractical because you can't even Fap, no premarital sex, and even if you do get married you can't have any fun sex either (no oral / anal)

if it wasn't for the sexual hangups it would be an okay religion

[Anonymous No.6707164]

>>6707142
but that really is knowable through pure reason

[Anonymous No.6707166]

>>6707156
*le tip*

[Anonymous No.6707169]

>>6707105
>Nietzsche
>atheist

[Anonymous No.6707171]

>>6707166
haha, are you subscribed to r/lehatmeme too?
good taste, my internet brother

[Anonymous No.6707174]

>>6707140
>have black gf, in long distance relationship
>want to jerk to black girl with white guy because self insert
>OOGAH BOOGAH OH MASSA YO WHITE DICK SO BIG IM SORRY I TRIED TO SEAL YO TV MMMH THAT WHITE DICK TOO GOOD THOUGH IMA HAVE TO COME BACK
I'm not sure what any of that means, is that your story?
>no, not radicalized at all
Radicalized? In what direction even?
>If you cant jerk it to /s/ and limit yourself to like 2 times a week you have issues and porn has become a distraction in your life
Of course making a lifestyle out of hedonistic acts is not a good idea. That being said, nofap is a retarded form of modern occultism.
>If you think porn is not specifically designed to hook you into a perpetual fantasy
Ok would it be too much of a dick move on my part to assert that the same holds true of the christian promise of salvation?
>>6707141
That's what it's about, telling people they are doomed,,they are nothing, unless they submit. It's a tactic so cheap, it's obvious why you target the desperate.

[Anonymous No.6707175]

>>6707155

>So if I understand you correctly, you realize that you are weaker than God, and that you do indeed fear death as much as the next man.

I'm not weaker than God, because God doesn't exist, that thing as defined in the bible as teh all benevolent, transcedental and all powerfull being that influences are lives has not warranted it's existance by any means philosophical or epistemic.And I fear death, but ot as much as christians do.

>By your own words, is Christianity not then for you?

As I said before christianity is a religious of weakness, for those who cannot stand a world withour rhyme or reason and start placing their faith on fairytales and lies. There is no value in Christianity unless you use it for artistic reasons, but other that like N. said , it's just bad Platonism.

[Anonymous No.6707181]

>>6707171

[Anonymous No.6707183]

>>6707164

No even in Kant, God is a hypothesis, the possibility of the transcedental world, but not the requirement of it. Hence proving the existance of God is impossible. Read the paralogisms of the Critique of Pure Reason, one is especially about the impossibility over proving God.

[Anonymous No.6707186]

>>6707151
I don't have a face, or name, or background you could detect with ease. Everything you could say about me are assumptions. Same holds vice versa, for all I know you could be a might is right type atheist who gets some kick out of manipulating people into buying a story he doesn't buy himself.

[Anonymous No.6707187]

>>6707164

Christianity has inherent paradoxes that reason can never reconcile (the infinite manifesting as a particular finite entity)

And reason can't discover which books are from God and which aren't. being free from contradictions isn't enough, claiming to be from god isn't enough, fulfilling prophecies isn't enough.

[Anonymous No.6707189]

>>6707184
if you don't reply to this you go to hell

[Anonymous No.6707193]

>>6707174
>That's what it's about, telling people they are doomed,,they are nothing, unless they submit. It's a tactic so cheap, it's obvious why you target the desperate.

Assuming this is true, what reason do you suspect Christians have in their attempt to "target" the weak. They aren't asking their followers to strap on bombs and blow up an atheist convention. I'm just confused as to what you think their end goal is? Aside from extremists, the Christians I know seem genuinely concerned or others and their salvation. Aside from gaining personal satisfaction from their actions, and I deny that pure altruism exists anyway, what are they gaining? Keep in mind, I'm not speaking of televangelists or WBC here.

[Anonymous No.6707198]

>>6707186
So this proof relies on the assumption that you can ever verify someone's motives and this verification arises from knowing someone in person?

[Anonymous No.6707200]

>>6707187
reason can establish the existance of a God and the immortality of the soul

and as a little extra, if you believe in Christ's resurrection, then there's no way you can reasonably deny what he said

[Anonymous No.6707207]

>>6707161
The best sex in the world is between a committed man and a woman, mated and faithful for life. Their wedding bed is holy, they belong to each other, and they are free.

[Anonymous No.6707211]

>>6707174
>It's a tactic so cheap, it's obvious why you target the desperate.

You realize that you are calling yourself desperate, yes? That I never did?

And yet, are you not desperate for love, acceptance, meaning and purpose? By my statement above, are not all human beings made this way?

[Anonymous No.6707212]

>>6707183
God is a metaphysical necessity

[Anonymous No.6707213]

le salvationposting

[Anonymous No.6707214]

>>6707175
As a Christian, I know God, and do not fear death.

>>6707183
You will see God, with your own eyes. If that's what you demand, you will receive that.

[Anonymous No.6707217]

>>6707200

>reason can establish the existance of a God and the immortality of the soul

You mean the Aquinas Quinque Viae? Because that has been disproven by virtually every single philosopher and even theologians that came after him.

http://challengedogmata.blogspot.be/2013/05/proof-is-not-found-in-quinque-viae.html

[Anonymous No.6707220]

>>6707217
shut up
SHUT UP
GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Anonymous No.6707221]

>>6707193
I'm far from saying that christianity's endgame is sinister, at least not at this point in history, in its majority. It has been quite different at times, but that's fortunately over.
My most benevolent assumption for the reasoning behind their prosyletizing is ofmcourse a genuine belief that they are saving people, and are unaware of the psychological exploits they are using to that end, or at least deem such exploitation legitimate in the face of the other's damnation.
But I do believ you should be skeptical of taking motivation at face balue, you should try to dig deeper. One factor is obviously actual desperation at the actualinjustice of the world, and seeking community and reassurance to ward of the overwhelming fear. Converting others will thenngive additional reassurance, the more people you convince, the better you can convince yourself, the more valid your hope for salvation becomes to you.

[Anonymous No.6707222]

>>6707213
Aye, and then everyone who demands a trial to prove that they are like God will have it. And the books of their lives will be opened, and searched for any single thing that makes them like God.

Standing condemned already for their lack of belief that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God, this trial will not go well.

Do not demand this trial. Realize that you are not like God, and beg God for mercy, and grace, and you will find it. He will give it to you, in abundance.

[Anonymous No.6707224]

>>6707217
Yes, Aquinas is Aristotelian.

Jesus is not.

[Anonymous No.6707225]

>>6707222
SEND THIS TO FIVE PEOPLE IF YOUR NAME IS IN THE BOOK

[Anonymous No.6707231]

>>6707214

>As a Christian, I know God, and do not fear death.

You don't know God because you have never communicated with him or even felt him, what you have is a vague metaphysical feeling that there must be "something greater than us" , but that feeling is not warranted anyware or by reason. You might as well be believing in auras or UFO's. This feeling come from a very primal fear and scepticism, that apereance cannot be reality, but again that scepticism is not epistemically vwaranted anywere.

>You will see God, with your own eyes. If that's what you demand, you will receive that.

Vague mystical talk about "experiencing God" doesn't lead anyware, If I wanted a pseudo-religious experience, I could take LSD, which is much more entertaining at least.

[Anonymous No.6707234]

>>6707221
>One factor is obviously actual desperation at the actualinjustice of the world, and seeking community and reassurance to ward of the overwhelming fear. Converting others will thenngive additional reassurance, the more people you convince, the better you can convince yourself, the more valid your hope for salvation becomes to you.

What do you find negative about this? Aside from your thought that they are subscribing to a lie, which really, in terms of their experience, doesn't matter.

[Anonymous No.6707235]

>>6707198
Knowingnsomeonemin person certainly helps in ascertaining wetger or not they're unhappy is what I'm saying.
>>6707211
No, you are assuming I am desperate. In a place like this, you can pretty much spam those tactics, it's safe to assume that this place is full of people with enough issues for the offermof salvation to stick.
>are you not desperate for love, acceptance, meaning and purpose
Desperate? Not really. Slightly lacking, yes, but that's a fact of life, and nothing I feel under pressure to remedy through simulation, at least not more than I probably already do uncansciously.

[Anonymous No.6707237]

>>6707224

So you admit that there is no reasonable proof of God to be found?

Either God can be understood by reason, or you simply go the cowards way like Pascal.

[Anonymous No.6707238]

>>6707221
I can only answer for myself, and tell you that I am giving you the truth straight from the bible, to the best of my understanding, which you can verify with a modicum of research into the bible verses regarding life and death, heaven and hell, etc.

To God, the evidence of the heavens and the earth suffices; the resurrection of Jesus suffices; so much so that mankind is standing before God without excuse.

If you demand God to be holy, just, and righteous, you need to know that is folly. Instead, turn to Him for His grace and mercy, which He provides in abundance.

The only thing you lack for salvation is your consent to be saved.

[Anonymous No.6707240]

>>6707231
stop replying to me you degenerate atheist scum

[Anonymous No.6707241]

>>6707217
they have not, and your blog post shows it doesnt even have a clue on what the arguments actually say
>thinking motion means movement :^))
http://edwardfeser.blogspot.mx/2011/07/so-you-think-you-understand.html
http://edwardfeser.blogspot.mx/2012/07/cosmological-argument-roundup.html

>>6707220
also it's sad that people have resorted to shitposting of this kind
fuck off

[Anonymous No.6707242]

>>6707235
>Knowingnsomeonemin person certainly helps in ascertaining wetger or not they're unhappy is what I'm saying.
Not being a dick here, I genuinely cant decipher through the typos

[Anonymous No.6707243]

>>6707231
You tell me what I have experienced, what I have heard, what I know to be true?

No, you are greatly mistaken. I know my Lord. I know His voice. I have seen Him do miracles through me. And I know what is in your future, if you do not change your mind, and get saved. I have told it to you. You will see my Lord as Judge, sitting on His great white throne, with your own eyes.

It is a fearful thing to be in the hands of a living God. Don't sink so deep into delusion that you consider the possibility that you might master this situation on your own.

[Anonymous No.6707245]

>>6707242
Ah nvm I thought you were another anon. I'd agree, was just having fun. We're pals

[Anonymous No.6707249]

>>6707235
Again, you called yourself desperate. I pointed out the truth; that every human being has deep desires for love, and acceptance, and meaning, and purpose, and will find something to satisfy those needs.

You can see this in yourself, and in everyone you know.

What you do not know, because you have not been told, is that only God will fulfill those needs to your satisfaction. You were designed in such a manner that this is true. And lacking God, you will turn to anything else to satisfy these needs, but they will never be satisfied without Him.

[Anonymous No.6707250]

>>6707234
>What do you find negative about this?
Not much, I can even sort of sympathize with that. Tje wish for comforting is perfectly legitimate, and those who can find it no other way, well, they don't have a choice, do they? My main qualm would be that whole opium of the people thing, that it treats the symtoms, but may get in the way of getting at the cause, or causes of human misery, as those are disregarded as earthly and irrelevant.

[Anonymous No.6707251]

>>6707240

why so flusstered? Losing the argument? :^)

And yes motion means movement read Aristotle:

>All this testifies to the exceptional status of the first movement, and behind it, of the first mover in the universe. The mover of these spheres possesses nothing but actuality, but this actuality is not what is transmitted in the process of causation. As we have seen in Section 3 above, this would not be exceptional as such: locomotion need not be caused on the transmission model of causation.But locomotions caused without immediate transmission were understood to be be embedded in larger patterns of causation which observed the principle of causational synonymy, and it is exactly such a larger pattern of causation which is missing in the case of celestial motions. Instead, what we hear in Metaphysics 12.6 is that the first mover moves as an object of love and striving

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/aristotle-natphil/

[Anonymous No.6707256]

>>6707251
What Aristotle reasoned, Jesus revealed. He is the unmoved mover, died for making the claim, and rose from the dead.

There is more in heaven and earth, my dear Anon, than can be found in your philosophies.

[Anonymous No.6707259]

>>6707250
Do you believe, then, that knowledge of the cause is always necessary for alleviation? Conversely, is it possible that knowledge of the cause could actually accentuate the symptoms?

[Anonymous No.6707260]

>>6707251
was that directed at me?

motion means change in general, not just movement

[Anonymous No.6707262]

>>6707241

see

>>6707251

Also see

http://www.edwardselvarajeric.com/lingo/god/the-worth-of-the-ontological-argument-with-critiques-of-gaunilo-kant-and-russell/

[Anonymous No.6707265]

this meme is hysterical, keep posting

[Anonymous No.6707269]

>>6707238
Okay those are just catchphrases, I thought we were having a conversation.
>>6707242
Oh shit, should spellcheck:
Knowing someone in person certainly helps in ascertaining wether or not they're unhappy is what I'm saying.
>>6707249
>Again, you called yourself desperate
Okay, where? Not trying to be a pedantic jerk, but if you keep repeating that claim, back it up.
>only God will fulfill those needs to your satisfaction
I am sorry to tell you this, but I know for a fact that this is untrue. Maybe I've been luckier in life than you. Maybe I'm being a jerk to people worse off than myself for no good reason right now, and if that's the case, I'm deeply sorry.

[Anonymous No.6707270]

>>6707262
see >>6707260
and >>6707241

that link addreses the ontological argument, which Aquinas didnt use

[Anonymous No.6707271]

>>6707260

The problem of the quinque viae is that motion or even change as first cause leads to infinite regress:

>The five “proofs” asserted by Thomas Aquinas in the 13th century don’t prove anything, and are easily — though I hesitate to say so, given his eminence — exposed as vacuous. The first three are just different ways of saying the same thing, and they can be considered together. All involve an infinite regress — the answer to a question raises a prior question, and so on ad infinitum.


>1 The Unmoved Mover

>Nothing moves without a prior mover. This leads us to an infinite regress, from which the only escape is God. Something had to make the first move, and that something we call God.


>2 The Uncaused Cause

>Nothing is caused by itself. Every effect has a prior cause, and again we are pushed back into infinite regress. This has to be terminated by a first cause, which we call God.


>3 The Cosmological Argument

>There must have been a time when no physical things existed. But, since physical things exist now, there must have been something non-physical to bring them into existence, and that something we call God.

>All three of these arguments rely upon the idea of an infinite regress and invoke God to terminate it. They make the entirely unwarranted assumption that God himself is immune to the regress. Even if we allow the dubious luxury of arbitrarily conjuring up a terminator to an infinite regress and giving it a name, simply because we need one, there is absolutely no reason to endow that terminator with any of the properties normally ascribed to God; omnipotence, omniscience, goodness, creativity of design, to say nothing of such human attributes as listening to prayers, forgiving sins and reading innermost thoughts.

>Edward Lear’s Nonsense Recipe for Crumboblious Cutlets invites us to “Procure some strips of beef, and having cut them into the smallest possible pieces, proceed to cut them still smaller, eight or perhaps nine times.” Some regresses do reach a natural terminator. Scientists used to wonder what would happen if you could dissect, say, gold into the smallest possible pieces. Why shouldn’t you cut one of those pieces in half and produce an even smaller smidgin of gold? The regress in this case is decisively terminated by the atom. The smallest possible piece of gold is a nucleus consisting of exactly 79 protons and a slightly larger number of neutrons, surrounded by a swarm of 79 electrons. If you “cut” gold any further than the level of the single atom, whatever else you get it is not gold. The atom provides a natural terminator to the Crumboblious Cutlets type of regress. It is by no means clear that God provides a natural terminator to the regresses of Aquinas.

[Anonymous No.6707276]

>>6707269
>>>6707070
>You've just now come to the realization that without God, life is nasty, brutish and short, and without meaning or purpose?
>In what way am I manipulating you, by pointing out the obvious?

>>6707096 (You)
>without God, life is nasty, brutish and short, and without meaning or purpos
For you. Note how this is almost a Hobbes quote, and it fulfills the same purpose as it did with Hobbes' affirmation of the state, getting people to submit out of fear. And yes, this is manipulative, you're acting on the assumption that I am unhappy, downright desperate, and you try to use that as leverage to get me to join your club.

[Anonymous No.6707284]

>>6707271
>It is by no means clear that God provides a natural terminator to the regresses of Aquinas.

They're competing theories.

One says God is an eternal spirit being, and the other says that if every effect must have a cause, there must be an infinite number of regressed causes.

The former is reality; the latter impossible.

[Anonymous No.6707292]

What definition of God are we arguing for against itt

gibe definitons

[Anonymous No.6707295]

>>6707259

>Do you believe, then, that knowledge of the cause is always necessary for alleviation?
I can't imagine it any other way tbh.
>Conversely, is it possible that knowledge of the cause could actually accentuate the symptoms?
Well, no, I don't see how. Knowledge of our predicament may be psychologically straining, but I don't think it is dispensible.
Are you trying to sell me christianity as a beneficial lie? I wouldn't deny it can have beneficial effects, but this way of seeing it still makes it impossible to believe in it.

[Anonymous No.6707297]

>>6707271
the argument does not rest on a "first" event which goes back in time to a mover, it rests on "first" mover maintaining the universe here and now

Edward Lear is clearly attacking a strawman

if i had to choose and Edward, it would be Feser ;)
http://edwardfeser.blogspot.mx/2010/08/edwards-on-infinite-causal-series.html

[Anonymous No.6707299]

>>6707292
>arguing
this is just shitposting, I don't see where you can find an argument in this thread

[Anonymous No.6707300]

>>6707276
What were you going for with that post?

[Anonymous No.6707307]

>>6707295
I'm not trying to sell you anything. I'm saying that people submitting to Christianity as a means of alleviating their situation is okay. I see no issue with this. Furthermore, to take a stab at your claims, have you ever heard of people that are diagnosed with psychological depression become more depressed? They feel themselves incapable of raising themselves above their own psychological malady and thus spiral into deeper depression. Keep in mind, in this scenario, the depression is not chemically induced via genetics.

[Anonymous No.6707309]

>>6707299
>I don't see where you can find an argument in this thread
>anything pertaining to religious debate isn't an argument
>I define 'argument'

KEK
E
K

[Anonymous No.6707315]

>>6707309
Could you please cite your sources on those last two quotes of yours?

[Anonymous No.6707321]

>>6707315
Nah, I'm not citing implications or what the definition of an argument is, you mongoloid.

[Anonymous No.6707341]

>>6707134
Reading actual theology was simultaneously the best and worst decision I ever made.

[Anonymous No.6707344]

>>6707307
>I see no issue with this
To the extent that there are sitjations when opium is better than no opium, agreed. Still, the existence of such situations offends me too much to not feel revulsion when I see people trying to capitalize on that by using it for prosyletizing.
>have you ever heard of people that are diagnosed with psychological depression become more depressed
I have, but I have also heard the opposite, people being relieved that it's an objective illness, not the fact that they are wirthless and condemned to failure.

[Anonymous No.6707351]

Nah, no need for a spooky version of epistemology here.

[Anonymous No.6707357]

>>6707344
>I have, but I have also heard the opposite, people being relieved that it's an objective illness, not the fact that they are wirthless and condemned to failure.
Of course, both are possible. I was just refuting the idea that it couldn't happen the other way around.

[Anonymous No.6707360]

>>6707341
how so?

[Anonymous No.6707378]

>>6707045
God doesn't want you to masturbate because he wants you to have kids.

[Anonymous No.6707382]

I remember as a teenager being an obnoxious millitant atheist, thinking Christianity was wrong and Dawkins was right.

Then I read some philosophy, and Spinoza changed how I understood both religion and atheism.

Then I discovered Moldbug's "How Dawkins got pwned", and it all came full circle.

[Anonymous No.6707389]

>>6707382
How did Spinoza change your views?

Be very careful.

[Anonymous No.6707394]

>>6707271

>all those silly presuppositions about causality

do you even Nagarjuna???

[Anonymous No.6707398]

>>6707382
Most fedoras are christians angry at their parents. Internet warrior christians are usually ex-fedoras embarrassed by their previous behaviour.

[Anonymous No.6707399]

>>6707357
Oh well, that leaves us with no clear answer. Still, someone has to know what depression is in order for it to be alleviated, and I don't see lying to the patient as ethical.
>>6707378
Why does he even want that? Is he afraid of running out of humans?

[Anonymous No.6707409]

>>6707399
Oh I wasn't looking for a clear answer! You said that you couldn't imagine a situation in which knowledge of the cause would accentuate symptoms and I supplied one. Nobody is lying to the patient, the 'patient' is finding alleviation through religion rather than through knowledge of the cause. Which, I believe, is okay. It makes no difference.

[Anonymous No.6707416]

>>6707399
>Still, someone has to know what depression is in order for it to be alleviated,

Absolutely false! This is a claim with no basis

[Anonymous No.6707417]

>>6707399
He needs humans to take care of the world.

[Anonymous No.6707422]

I don't think 'existence' is binary, as in something either exists or it doesn't. Things exist in different ways based on different conditions.

A dream exists but in a different way than a car exists. Trees exist but in a different way than a legal contract exists. Yet, however we imagine things to exist, we can't imagine what "it is like" for God to exist. Because he is the absolute unique and unconditioned. So the category of "existence" doesn't even apply to him, imo.

He neither exists nor does not exist, but is the necessary pre-condition for existence itself.

Any ontological argument about his existence fails to really think about its premises, its presuppositions about what it means to exist and what God means. I also agree with Kant, you can't extrapolate existence simply by looking at the logical relationship of concepts, like some sort of word-game.

I think reason can clarify what we mean and understand, but only AFTER we establish certain axions and beliefs about God through faith.

[Anonymous No.6707430]

>>6707389
In retrospect, I think both my sense of religion and my sense of irreligion had been informed by a distinctly American understanding. It was only after reading the old European literature that I started to appreciate the values that transcend, as it were.

[Anonymous No.6707431]

>>6707409
Still, knowledge on someone's part is needed, even if we for some reason conclude that it's better not to tell the patient lest the revelation crushes their spirit, which, again, strikes me as a dubious alternative to taking the risk of being honest.

[Anonymous No.6707443]

>>6707417
Pretty sure that humans benefit more from the world than vice versa.
>>6707416
>you don't need to understand an illness in order to cure it
Reliably solving problems is not abad thing you know.

[Anonymous No.6707457]

>>6707431
I see no reason the knowledge is needed? Furthermore, when did the morality of honesty enter into this equation? I think we've strayed from the point, here.

Point being that there are those that convert to Christianity to solve their emotional or psychological maladies and find remedy. This is okay, I think.

Your argument was that knowledge is necessary to recovery but, as I said, I see no reason this must be the case and I also supplied an example in which a patient could actually suffer more from the knowledge of they suffering. Depression is something that has occurred for centuries and has only relatively recently been diagnosed. Regardless, people recovered without the knowledge of their strife.

I see no point in this argument that the morality of honesty need be weighed.

[Anonymous No.6707459]

What should a Deist read?

I believe God is good & reincarnation happens until you get purified enough to go to heaven, but God remains silent and doesn't reveal himself to prophets

[Anonymous No.6707461]

>>6707117
Are psychopaths Übermenschen?

[Anonymous No.6707464]

>>6707443
>Reliably solving problems is not abad thing you know.
This has nothing to do with what I said! You speak in terms of 'musts' and 'have to' (objectivity) and when a counter example is provided, you appeal to morality and preference (subjectivity). I see no logic in your arguments..

[Anonymous No.6707471]

>>6707422
>but is the necessary pre-condition for existence itself.
You only argue that because that's all you ever knew about what you call existence. We are not above our senses. Existence can come from nothing as far as every possibility is concerned. The problem is we have no idea of what everything means. Everything might as well be nothing, it makes its own rules. You call this word game, I call it humility. We are gelatinous meatbags for crying out loud..

[Anonymous No.6707473]

>>6707457
>I see no reason the knowledge is needed?
I mean on part of the doctor. You don't cure stuff without knowledge, at least not normally.

>I see no point in this argument that the morality of honesty need be weighed
Yeah obviously, as you don't seem to believe that honesty has any moral valie of its own, at least not one that might trump the apparent moral value of the collective escapism of religion.

[Anonymous No.6707479]

>>6707471

I call that nothingness God.
it is great indeed.

>We are gelatinous meatbags for crying out loud..

and the only way to become a true self is to relate to the infinite.

[Anonymous No.6707485]

>>6707473
I am not religious and I have no idea why this scenario has skewed to the point of a patient seeking remedy by a doctor and the doctor denying the patient this knowledge. Please retrace this argument.

>you don't believe honesty has moral value of it's own
Correct! Do you?

[Anonymous No.6707489]

>>6707464
You habe not provided a counter example, you have just said that there is no reason to believe that knowldge of a problem (depression) is crucial for solving it. Maybe you should provide an example of a problem better remaining generally undiscovered (in the case of depression, meaning it would be undiscovered by both patient and doctor, do you think this would be better for anyone involved?).

[Anonymous No.6707493]

>>6707479
Sounds spooky but I'll allow it. I will be acquiring property in the meantime.

[Anonymous No.6707507]

>>6707489
>You habe not provided a counter example, you have just said that there is no reason to believe that knowldge of a problem (depression) is crucial for solving it.
I'm a little worried this is your first argument. Retrace the thread! I said:
>Do you believe, then, that knowledge of the cause is always necessary for alleviation?
To which you responded:
>I can't imagine it any other way

I then stated tthe counter example of a person with psychological depression becoming more depressed upon knowledge of their cause, to which you agreed.

Furthermore, the initial argument revolved around the notion that it was bad that people were converting to Christianity as a means of solving their problems. In this scenario, a person would be alleviating their problems without knowledge of the cause, and thus disproving the notion that knowledge of the cause is essential. Do you dispute this?

[Anonymous No.6707513]

>>6707485
>Please retrace this argument
Your point: knowledge of a problem might make it worse. Your example: a depressive person's knowledge of their condition might worsen their situation. My counter argument: knowledge on part of the doctor, however, is unambiguisly better than ignorance. Knowledge vindicated as beneficial.
>Do you?
I do. Something to do with valuing humans as reasonable beings.

[Anonymous No.6707517]

Agnostic here what do I read to go full christian?

[Anonymous No.6707524]

>>6707507
I didn't eben know that was you, as you replied to an earlier post twice, creating two different conversations with me.

Also, I don't believe that christianity solves anything but the most immediate pain, and this only temporarily.

[Anonymous No.6707525]

>>6707513
>My counter argument: knowledge on part of the doctor, however, is unambiguisly better than ignorance.

I am not sure why you keep referencing this 'doctor'

Why must this scenario contain a doctor? And why must someone be visiting a doctor? This is not a question of morality. This is a question of whether or not knowledge of one's cause is essential to recovery. It is not. I have absolutely no idea why you keep appealing to humanism, it isn't even relevant.

[Anonymous No.6707528]

>>6707517
Saint Max

[Anonymous No.6707532]

>>6706189
>>6706193

kek'd at both.

[Anonymous No.6707535]

>>6707524
>I didn't eben know that was you
This doesn't detract from your claim!

>Christianity doesn't relied anything but the most immediate pain, and this only temporarily

Absolutely no basis for this! There are countless instances of people claiming "Christianity changed my life for the better" and Don't pretend you haven't heard them. Are all of these people engaging in a conspiracy? Do you know better than they of their own emotional strife?

[Anonymous No.6707543]

>>6707292
i think everything is one substance

and that substance ought to be called god

because its not matter

and its not mind

it just is everything

[Anonymous No.6707557]

>>6707524
>Also, I don't believe that christianity solves anything but the most immediate pain, and this only temporarily.
can you elucidate on how a permanent pain manifests in a temporary existence?

[Anonymous No.6707566]

>>6707525
>I am not sure why you keep referencing this 'doctor
Because your example was a medical condition, that's why. And the doctor is not a moral factor, but a factor in alleviating the medical condition.
>>6707535
>There are countless instances of people claiming "Christianity changed my life for the better" and Don't pretend you haven't heard them.
I mostly encounter them on the internet. Which is not the kind of place where I'd trust people's accounts of their emotions.
>Are all of these people engaging in a conspiracy?
No, if you're asking me, they're bullshitting themselves and others to make themselves feel better, as that's how religion works. I'm not saying we're not living in a world where this isn't understandable, but this doesn't change what it is, autosuggestive bullshitting.

[Anonymous No.6707575]

>>6707557
Guess I'll have to sue everyone who sells permanent markers for fraud.

[Anonymous No.6707576]

>>6707566
Oh anon, your highschool is showing. I won't entertain an argument with you, I thought you knew what you were doing. Also, one can have a medical condition and not have access to a doctor.

G'night!

[Anonymous No.6707581]

>>6707566
>I'm not saying we're not living in a world where this isn't understandable
Wait, fuck. Substract one negation from that.

[Anonymous No.6707588]

>>6707576
>one can have a medical condition and not have access to a doctor.
And that's preferable?
Anyway, stay mad, goodnight.

[Anonymous No.6707606]

>>6707588
Ehhh, one more. I'll do my best here.

This isn't a question of preference or morality. I'm not sure you understand what you're arguing.
The argument as stated by you: one must have knowledge of the cause of their malady in order to recover
The reality as proven by me: this is not true.

Why in the world you have inserted doctors and questions of morality and preference and subjective good into this equation is beyond me. I can only assume it is to distract. That, or you have no idea what's going on (judging from your syntax and articulately skills, im guessing this is the case).

I really must go now, but maybe Reread the thread?

[Anonymous No.6707627]

>>6707606
>This isn't a question of preference or morality
I never claimed it was. It is a question of getting better. And even in the unlikely case that knowing your own predicament might make you worse, having someone else know it, especially someone with enough knowledge to be able to help, certain goes a long way to helping you.

[Anonymous No.6707660]

Somehow I think all these christposters are just extreme trolls that want to create a complete idiot out of us.

[Anonymous No.6707671]

>>6707660
I love spotting non-natives because they remind me how strange English is. I would absolutely make the same mistake in French. Plus, non-natives are generally more friendly IMO

[Anonymous No.6707690]

>>6707660
>create a complete idiot out of us.
They don't have to do that.

[Anonymous No.6707704]

>>6707671
Yea. When I realised how retarded that sentence was... It was too late. Friendliness is a spook Anon.

[Anonymous No.6707726]

Unironically no bullshit, I love Jesus Christ and am Catholic

[Anonymous No.6707730]

>>6707726
Proof?

[Anonymous No.6707750]

IIIIIIII LOOOOOOOOOVE YOOOOOOOU JESUUUUUUUUUS CHHHRRRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIST

[Anonymous No.6707772]

>>6707730
Of what, my Catholicism? Well here's a pic I just took of the cross I wear, I think my phone will turn it sideways though. I go to confession and mass every week

[Anonymous No.6707779]

Hie away from me papist. Give me none of your phony pope's blessings, for I am enlightened by my theses.