/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.5840814]

Journalism is on topic here, as is high level social commentary (IMO).

Have you read the below article, and part one? It has received a gigantic response relative to the number of comments that the websites other articles get. For a complete newbie to r9k / reddit red pill theory (I.e, none of you guys, no matter how hard you may protest), the two articles do really well to introduce and summarise the overall views.

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/12/09/The-Sexodus-Part-2-Dishonest-Feminist-Panics-Leave-Male-Sexuality-In-Crisis

I'll admit I'm an r9ker and litizen who shitposts r9k material on here, but I think we can have a worthwhile discussion.

IMO one criticism is that in the first article he seems to blame too much on feminism. Frankly I think the truth is worse. Most women are not feminists (feminists as in tumblr / extreme SJW stereotypes) yet tonnes of them take tonnes of stuff through divorce / make tonnes of false rape charges. I think the misery of men is perpetuated by almost everyone (e.g. beta white knights).

My two questions are:

1. What does it say about this issue when even the (supposedly sensitive and thoughtful) literature types on here will respond with "omg only losers could ever care"?

2. We live in a time where Western society claims that the pinnacle of masculinity is dying in a pointless war. While the pinnacle of femininity is either posting a make up free selfie or being a single mother (obviously on benefits).

If it looks like pyoor ideology, sounds like pyoor ideology, and walks like pyoor ideology, then why is nobody but me pointing this out?

[Anonymous No.5840893]

>>5840814

>We live in a time where Western society claims that the pinnacle of masculinity is dying in a pointless war.

This isn't true, the pinnacle of masculinity is to buy products. The pinnacle of femininity on flipside is to get bought. If there were seriously propaganda drive to tell young men of western society to go die in pointless war, they would be on that shit like white on rice. Young men once loved going off to the battle, after all it comes with freedom to whore drink and murder as much as you like. This has now been poisoned first of all by technological reshaping of war from opportunity for guilt-free ape mayhem to dehumanizing nightmare lived on the terms of the unknown Other, and second of all by the fact that it forces westerners to come to terms with the voidness of their humanistic convictions and philosophical foundation on sand of all western society.

I think it's telling that articles like OP's are being written, but not so much because they are "right" (though they are certainly not tempests in teapots either) as because they cater to feminized men, men raised by mothers: men who think that being understood and accepted is the best thing. No coincidence that so many young men wrote in about the article -- having moved beyond their mothers' ability to love or provide for them, they are lost, without a central object to give meaning to their world. And they certainly don't know how to act without that central object.

What is the cause of this? Industrial and post-industrial society annihilate fatherhood by separating the father from the son, and consequently son has no idea how to "be a man", he is pushed to will (though he can hardly admit it) to be like his mother, i.e. object of stability for an Other, an agent who will give their life meaning. The problem is that women are raised the exact same way, they want the exact same thing as the man and neither man nor woman is capable of providing for the other. Increasingly now that women are working too, there is nobody who spends a lot of time with children of either sex and they are left to grow up in alienation, finding love and acceptance wherever they can get it and role model absolutely nowhere. tl;dr Modern capitalism pulled a 187 on the ability to healthily develop one's personhood and everyone was like "yeah! more of that!" and now we are all reaping the psychosexual whirlwind.

[Anonymous No.5840958]

>>5840893
The solution to this alienation is not to try and 'go back', to try and return to a society where the pre-capitalist masculinity existed; that is simply the alienation rebounding on itself, it won't heal the distress, though the violence it offers brings temporary catharsis. The solution is to be conscious of this 'psychosexual whirlwind' and take it to its natural conclusion beyond capitalism into socialism.

[Anonymous No.5841006]

>>5840958

Nah. Modern-day western socialism/social democracy is capitalism in a clown mask. It doesn't change anything about the fucked-up sexual dynamics of industrial society. The fact is that relations between the sexes are never known to have been free of angst -- read Descent of Inanna, Lysistrata, Genesis 2 or really any work from any era that contains female characters. Nor is there any reason to suppose that there is some sexual eschaton out there awaiting our immanentization. There is no escape (certainly not in pipe dreams of how if we just lived like [insert optimistic social theorist of choice] said, everything would be okay between men and women) so you had better just balls it out, accept your broken nature, get your dick wet where you can, and pay no heed to shysters pushing orthodox sexual moralities whether through feministic or antifeministic rhetoric.

[Anonymous No.5841013]

>>5841006

>Genesis 2

*Genesis 3, more.

[Anonymous No.5841019]

>>5840893
>What is the cause of this? Industrial and post-industrial society annihilate fatherhood by separating the father from the son, and consequently son has no idea how to "be a man", he is pushed to will (though he can hardly admit it) to be like his mother, i.e. object of stability for an Other, an agent who will give their life meaning
I was thinking about this. What do Ulysses, Eveline, The Stranger, As I Lay Dying, The Lame Shall Enter First, The Judgment, To the Lighthouse, and much more famous 20th century works have in common? Dead mothers. It's like a reverse Odyssey, where the son tries to replace the mother instead of the father.

[Anonymous No.5841031]

>>5841019
And The Brothers Karamazov as well, which is the earliest of those.

[Anonymous No.5841053]

>>5841006
>Modern-day western socialism/social democracy is capitalism in a clown mask.
It is, but that itself doesn't make the socialist (and here I really mean communist) project incorrect. If anything the failures that have come from the retreat of China into capitalism and Western socialism's retreat into social democracy and reformism proves the necessity of radical transformation of capitalism into socialism and actively building communist society. Of course, one should not be utopian, there will always be problems on the individual level, but the material conditions of society do change the psychological conditions, as you yourself claim has happened under capitalism.

[Anonymous No.5841068]

>>5841053

I don't see that Marxism or Marx-influenced political systems will cure sexual malaise though, because by and large they proceed from the notion shared with modern capitalism that industrial society is cool and good, or at the very least a pragmatic necessity. And this is what is at the root of the modern loss of sexual identity, but it doesn't mean that before industrial era sexual identity was all well and good. It never was and it never seems like it will be. I do not think there is any reason to trust any idea system to fix this.