/wg/ - Writing General

[Anonymous No.22094785]

The Rhythm of Writing Edition

/wg/ AUTHORS & FLASH FICTION: https://pastebin.com/ruwQj7xQ

RESOURCES & RECOMMENDATIONS: https://pastebin.com/nFxdiQvC

Previous thread: >>22090216

[Anonymous No.22094791]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kcuai_wBCS4IBW3G-NHLdvEzNrtm1De5LyETjBnCxLo/edit

Short story I wrote. Inspired by GGM Chronicle of a death foretold, with obviously worse quality of prose.

Please tear me apart. All feedback is welcome.

[Anonymous No.22094835]

sent 5 fucking queries today and it took hours. why is this process so ass? why do agents think people are going to email them a virus hidden in an attached pdf? grow the fuck up and get off twitter.
>i have too many queries to parse through!
>instead of doing my job, i'm going to close my submissions for an undisclosed period of time and continue to browse twittertokgram all day to virtue signal about faggots
why are they so lazy
why are they so arrogant
one bozo admitted he commuted from dallas to NYC. how much money is this crusty leech siphoning from the people doing the actual work (the AUTHORS)?
i looked at another agency. out of 18 authors they represented, at least 10 of them were jewish. jews are 2% of the US population and less globally, but 60% of represented authors. when can we discuss jewish privilege?

[Anonymous No.22094875]

>>22094835
Just self-publish already.
Tradpubbing is dead, for reasons you just described, and many more.

[Anonymous No.22094896]

>>22094875
Oh, boy. I get to be treated as the nigger now. So progressive and justice.
Meanwhile white people who work for a living are dying of preventable illnesses because they cannot afford medical treatment despite having a fulltime job.

I pray to God the vax wipes these creatures out.

[Anonymous No.22094905]

>>22094896
You and me both, pal.

[Anonymous No.22094910]

>>22094875
>self pubbing
May as well just leave copies on at your local trainstation

[Anonymous No.22094924]

>>22094910
I don't even know where that is.
Public transportation is for poorfags.
They're little more than rolling homeless shelters at this point.

[Anonymous No.22095022]

>>22094910
We have this brand new invention called the 'internet'

[Anonymous No.22095033]

>>22095022
He might find that too hard to wrap his mind around.
Perhaps if we described it as a series of tubes...

[Anonymous No.22095041]

Editorchad free again in 65 hours

[Anonymous No.22095050]

>>22095022
>>22095033
The internet is worthless though. I bet you think it gives voice to the people or something. The other guy is right. you're better off printing it out and leaving it around your town

[Anonymous No.22095070]

>>22095050
>I bet you think it gives voice to the people or something.
Maybe in 1999. But submitting to the Amazon search algorithms is a lot better than trying to get the attention of the traditional gatekeepers.

[Anonymous No.22095103]

>>22094875
Is this really that accurate or was Oates baiting when she said this? I can't remember the exact thing, but I recall /lit/ had a discussion about this last year because there was also data showing that a lot of publishers still publish whites more than they thought they did and some literati were bitching and moaning about it. White men I can't recall the data for because I don't think it included all of the correlations between race, gender or otherwise. I could believe that women are published more than men these days, that would at least make sense.
For sake of argument I find it hard to believe that there aren't any houses to publish the works of white men. It is certainly more common to see publishers that exclusively publish works from one point of view and will list it in their About pages (e.g. queer voices or BIPOC voices only), but I have mostly seen that at smaller publishers. While I think this would be rotten if it was far more difficult to get published as a white male, I also find it all the more reason to try to get published because it would give you a spotlight as an exceedingly rare voice in contemporary writing.
>t. white male

[Anonymous No.22095106]

>>22095070
I bet you're the type of guy i dont like. i hate those types of guys.

[Anonymous No.22095113]

>>22095050
It does give voice to the people.
We're aware of a lot of self-serving government corruption because of independent journalists, reporting on Twitter and other places.
The establishment media continues its blackout, but that only makes their viewers go elsewhere.
At some point, their crumbling edifice will fall.
Hopefully before it brings our entire civilization down with it.

[Anonymous No.22095124]

>>22095103
The only way white cisgender males can get published these days is by establishing their bona fides outside of the system, e.g. self-publishing.
Then the tradpubbers have little choice but to make him an offer, because when all things are considered, money is more important to them.

[Anonymous No.22095125]

>>22095113
>Hopefully before it brings our entire civilization down with it.
I'm hoping this is the parallel economy timeline.

[Anonymous No.22095127]

How do I make my villains like the Jews while keeping plausible deniability for being cancelled?

[Anonymous No.22095128]

>>22095113
You're just some delusional kid. Nothing has changed

[Anonymous No.22095156]

>>22095124
If money is more important, shouldn't they also be prepared to make that determination when reviewing the work and its target audience? Because if money was not an issue they would reject work solely because of identity and continue to reject the author after he found success independently.

Or is this more a case of them pretending to have principles by rejecting people while also trying to make money? It seems like such a counter-intuitive process. I've seen some businesses I've done business with nearly obliterate their business by threatening to fire people just to keep up appearances that the company was ethical because if they don't the media would threaten them. I don't know what's wrong with people and why they can't just treat the media and its concern tolls as the insects that they are.

[Anonymous No.22095186]

I'm still having problems with coming up for a good story for my crime fiction story. Help?

[Anonymous No.22095190]

>>22095103
>a lot of publishers still publish whites
so are they publishing whites
or are they publishing (((whites)))

[Anonymous No.22095198]

>>22095156
Tradpubbers are all about avoiding risk.
So if someone makes it on their own, outside their system, that makes them less of a risk.
No idea why they believe screeching political screeds from highly intersectional authors aren't considered risky, but there you have it.

[Anonymous No.22095202]

>>22095156
it's far easier and makes more financial sense to offer money to a self published author, as a known quantity with a known readerbase, than a literal unknown

[Anonymous No.22095206]

>>22095186
Someone figures out how to commit the perfect crime.
They take one person, and kill another person with him.
It looks like some sort of pedestrian accident.
But how will the detective unravel this dastardly scheme in time to save the mayor's wife from her unhinged dental hygienist?

[Anonymous No.22095226]

>>22095190
It depends on how accurate what they are reporting is. You've got a point that they could use it to complain white people are overpublished while being underpublished. But if that was the case, is there no kind of recourse for them lying about it? I don't even really see the point in pointing out hypocrisy anymore honestly because these days you can lie under oath and no one will care.
>>22095198
>>22095202
That does make sense. I think my suggestion that publishers are intimidated by the media is the reason why the publish "intersectional authors" so they can appear that they are in on contemporary ethics. The argument that they are simply building a library for voices that historically were not heard doesn't completely hold water because you also cannot have more traditional voices go totally unheard of for an entire generation. That would not be fair.

[Anonymous No.22095256]

>>22095226
Fairness isn't a consideration for the far left...just naked, raw power.

[Anonymous No.22095265]

>>22095103
today I saw an agent asking for "a cozy mystery written by a Maori".
the problem is that maybe 70% of books published are by whites, but if 90% of queries are from whites, what does that mean? That means a brown has a three times higher chance of being published than an equally skilled white, just by virtue of their skincolor. It's reverse racism, favoritism, and anti-meritocratic. This shit needs to be made illegal.

[Anonymous No.22095275]

>>22095265
Or just bypass it by self-publishing.
Tradpubbing is hideously corrupt, biased and incompetent.
The government isn't going to fix it.

[Anonymous No.22095292]

>>22095265
>a cozy mystery written by a Maori
I suggest the agent try something more daring, like a WWII historic fiction...with a female protagonist.

[Anonymous No.22095303]

>>22095292
Why, when the truth is so much better than fiction?
https://nypost.com/2019/12/14/meet-the-dutch-girls-who-seduced-nazis-and-lured-them-to-their-deaths/

[Anonymous No.22095319]

>>22095303
imagine getting killed by these qts, GOD

[Anonymous No.22095320]

>>22095292
GUYS DID YOU REMEMBER TO READ A BOOK ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST TODAY
LISTEN GOYIM WE HAVE 200,000 HOLOCAUST BOOKS YOU MUST READ OR WE WILL TURN YOUR BANK CARD OFF

[Anonymous No.22095326]

>>22094785
Crabs in a pot again and it barely took 10 replies.

[Anonymous No.22095381]

>>22094785
"Have whatever OP image you want but at least stick to the proper OP" Edition.
The "mentoring" edition

Previous thread: >>22090216

/wg/ AUTHORS & FLASH FICTION: https://pastebin.com/ruwQj7xQ
RESOURCES & RECOMMENDATIONS: https://pastebin.com/nFxdiQvC

Please limit excerpts to one post.
Give advice as much as you receive it to the best of your ability.
Follow prompts made below and discuss written works for practice; contribute and you shall receive.
If you have not performed a cursory proofread, do not expect to be treated kindly. Edit your work for spelling and grammar before posting.
Violent shills, relentless shill-spammers, and grounds keeping prose, should be ignored and reported.

Simple guides on writing:
>https://youtu.be/pHdzv1NfZRM
>https://youtu.be/whPnobbck9s
>https://youtu.be/YAKcbvioxFk

Thread theme:
https://youtu.be/QfCOJLRk2D4

[Anonymous No.22095389]

>>22094785
"Have whatever OP image you want but at least stick to the proper OP" Edition.

Previous thread: >>22090216

/wg/ AUTHORS & FLASH FICTION: https://pastebin.com/ruwQj7xQ
RESOURCES & RECOMMENDATIONS: https://pastebin.com/nFxdiQvC

Please limit excerpts to one post.
Give advice as much as you receive it to the best of your ability.
Follow prompts made below and discuss written works for practice; contribute and you shall receive.
If you have not performed a cursory proofread, do not expect to be treated kindly. Edit your work for spelling and grammar before posting.
Violent shills, relentless shill-spammers, and grounds keeping prose, should be ignored and reported.

Simple guides on writing:
>https://youtu.be/pHdzv1NfZRM
>https://youtu.be/whPnobbck9s
>https://youtu.be/YAKcbvioxFk

Thread theme:
https://youtu.be/QfCOJLRk2D4

[Anonymous No.22095404]

>>22095127
Theres an anon on here who has a fantasy/sci-fi fiction who does it well by making them a "different" race on a different planet but they posses near identical religious doctrines, grooming rituals and monetary habits that traditional jews posses.

[Anonymous No.22095415]

>>22095206
I'm not sure if I want to include a detective in my crime novel. I'm not Christie or Doyle. The whodunit thing has been done a million times and million times better. The contest I am writing for, asks for "crime" fiction. As long as a law is broken, it qualifies.

[Anonymous No.22095431]

>>22095127
Just make him embody the zeitgeist. If people feel attacked, that's on them.

[Anonymous No.22095480]

>>22094791
I am just an amateur reader, so take what I say with a grain of salt. Overall I thought it was good. You are Canadian? Obviously that was the setting but I ask because of your word choice "labourer" instead of "worker" and so forth. Also the dialogue was very zoomer, not an issue, but just found it interesting.

Stand out line for me:
>The soft patter that accompanies the first steps in fresh powder is replaced by a pitchy crunch.

[Anonymous No.22095482]

>>22095415
then do a heist

[Anonymous No.22095505]

>>22095480
Even a lot of Americans don't say "worker." Rush Limbaugh tried to get people to stop saying it because it could be used in an anti-capitalist way. It allows people to line draw what is "true" work and what is not. So some people go with terms like associate, technician or more specific titles than something vague like a worker.

[Anonymous No.22095511]

I often name antagonists/villains in my novels after people I hate and want to see humiliated. They are portrayed as uniquely violent, arrogant, crass, sadistic, cowardly, and unintelligent. The protagonists exploit their hubris to defeat them.

[Anonymous No.22095558]

>>22095511
Just be careful that they don't figure it out and ostracize you like they did Thomas Wolfe

[Anonymous No.22095602]

>>22095511
That's the opposite of what I do. I base antagonists on neutral/positive people I know. It gives me a bit more to work with. I can see them as people who went wrong somewhere.

[Anonymous No.22095653]

Why, yes, I have written 2,000 words today. In fact, I wrote 4,000.

[Anonymous No.22095770]

>>22095558
Or Truman Capote

[Anonymous No.22095805]

>>22095415
How about a heist but from the perspectives of the employees? They are stuck in the middle of some Fast and Furious or Ocean's 11 styled madness.

[Anonymous No.22095878]

>>22095653
STOP BULLYING ME!!!
>1.1k words today

[Anonymous No.22095974]

>trying to deconstruct characters that fit the trope of my MC in books that came before so as to replicate the magic that makes them endearing
>copy passages that are emblematic of their personality for later reference
>hit upon one that fits better than anything i've read yet
>almost don't want to pick it up now because i have to stop every few pages to copy something over
sucks cus i really like the book. i guess if this is a job it has to suck sometimes. i'll read it again someday after i'm published.

[Anonymous No.22095994]

>>22095974
What a titanic amount of effort, for nothing

[Anonymous No.22096019]

>>22095994
it's neither of those.

[Anonymous No.22096038]

>tfw discovery writing again
It is a good feeling.

[Anonymous No.22096048]

>>22095653
1400 words, and the chapter is done.

[Anonymous No.22096078]

>>22095653
Congratulations. Your the next F Gardner.

[Anonymous No.22096081]

>NO IDEAS, BUT IN THINGS. Write a very brief story told only in images— concrete, simple, visually efficient movements and details. This exercise does not ask you to eliminate people from your prose, just to watch what they do and what objects they crave and caress rather than what they say or think about these objects and actions. 300 words
This was fun. A good constraint.
Let me know how I did.

[Anonymous No.22096084]

>>22096081
You’re the next F. Gardner. Except unironically.

[Anonymous No.22096085]

>>22096084
That bad, huh?

[Anonymous No.22096254]

>>22095389
What makes this OP more proper to you? Some YouTube videos?

[Anonymous No.22096270]

Rentseekers eat the corn out of my shit!

[Anonymous No.22096336]

>>22096254
The posting instructions for one, the second is the troll warnings. The third is the instructive videos for those who not only need to be shown but told. The cherry on top is the thread theme music that might help inspire someone out of their writing funk by letting them experience something outside of their habitual choices in tunes.

[Anonymous No.22096465]

>>22095558
I really like Wolfe but that was clearly one of his weaknesses, he was a bit too true to life. But at least he got to write a novel about the blowback. I try to make sure all my characters have been altered in multiple ways so the inspiration, real or fiction, becomes less clear.

[Anonymous No.22096552]

Can the word "cephalic" be used to describe a creature that only has a head, and no body?

[Anonymous No.22096594]

>>22095389
>>22096336
You're a narcissist

[Anonymous No.22096601]

feedback plox

How did you know about me? What blew my cover? Did the Merzaza betray me?
No, it was much more sophisticated than that. You didn't blow your cover, you never had any to begin with. The entire portal thing was a distraction, your target isn't even in this plane right now. We intentionally misled their spies in hopes of drawing you in. When we received news that the world portal in the Merzaza territory was opened for a shipment of weapons we knew for certain you had arrived. I must admit, I am quite proud of defeating the legendary eliminator known as Empusa. You are easily my most difficult target. I'm confident in my abilities, but I was quite uncertain if I would manage to pull this off. You're so infamous, almost mythical.
Yes well thanks for the kind words. I suppose it's a minor relief to know I was doomed from the start and I didn't mess up or anything. Just by chance I always knew I'd eventually meet my end. You don't hear of many assassins who die of old age.
Empusa breaks eye contact and stares into the distance.
That's part of the reason I switched careers. Working in security is much safer. I was an assassin in my younger days, much like you. I'll make sure you get treated with respect during your imprisonment.
I can't risk prison and becoming a liability to my master, you know that. There's only one way out of this for me. Empusa breaks eye contact by staring at the ground, before facing him again. It's whatever to me though. I suppose I never really enjoyed life anyway, it was mostly just one big disappointment with short moments of happiness where I managed to distract myself for long enough to be happy. I'll be at peace. Besides we all die eventually don't we.
You know that I can't let you commit suicide right, I will be forced to stop you, you're simply too valuable an asset I'm afraid.
That's alright, I already drank the poison when the inevitably of it all dawned on me. I probably have a minute or two left, I can already feel an intense stinging tingling sensation all over my body.
That's smart, how predictive of you. It's a shame we met under these circumstances, perhaps at a different place and time we could've been great allies.
I don't know. I don't have a good track record when it comes to any sort relationships. May I know your name?
Seneka. Seneka Hanmor.
I'm Empusa. I can't give you my real name.
I understand.
It's getting cold Seneka.
Seneka holds her as she starts shaking then slowly he feels her arms losing their tension as they eventually just hang over him.

[Anonymous No.22096607]

>>22096552
Ha. How humerus.

[Anonymous No.22096632]

[Anonymous No.22096633]

How do I write a conflict between two parties which are both morally in the right and neither is a villain (nor are anti-heroes or of gray morality)
white vs white morality

[Anonymous No.22096680]

>>22096633
if both parties have rightfulness then conflict is wasteful. It sounds like a traditional tragedy. There needs to be some kind of loss that equates to a resolution.

[Anonymous No.22096684]

>>22096633
Be less judgy. Provide all the evidence a reader needs to make their own conclusions then just allow them to do it themselves. Realize that all conflict is "white vs white," because everyone always thinks they're justified.

[Anonymous No.22096687]

>>22096684
>Realize that all conflict is "white vs white," because everyone always thinks they're justified
No, that's gray vs gray.
I want actually white vs white, as in, a traditionally infallible good guy from "white vs black" story, pitted against another such. Objectively morally good.

[Anonymous No.22096688]

>>22096687
>Objectively morally good
Anon, I...

[Anonymous No.22096692]

>>22096633
If both parties are morally justified then it just comes down to personal opinion and trivial differences. It'd be a terrible story.

[Anonymous No.22096698]

>>22096688
Yes? Use your words, young man.
>>22096692
that's the challenge of making it good and compelling

[Anonymous No.22096707]

>>22096687
If both sides are objectively morally good, what's there to fight over? The objective framework leaves nothing ambiguous by definition. It is a universal moral code that can only be right or wrong. It follows that people who are all objectively morally good follow the exact same rules, which would preclude conflict.

[Anonymous No.22096715]

>>22096707
>what's there to fight over?
That's what makes this question interesting
Being on the morally good side is not the end of the story, you still have implementation of your morality onto your actions to deal with

[Anonymous No.22096720]

>>22096715
It was a rhetorical question. There is obviously no reason to fight over anything if you share the exact same objective moral framework.

[Anonymous No.22096727]

>>22096698
It'd also be a challenge to make a good story from scrambling a randomized jumble of words, but that doesn't make it worthwhile. Can you think of existing stories with an example of this kind of conflict?

[Anonymous No.22096731]

>>22096720
yes there is; read the post
>>22096727
>make a good story from scrambling a randomized jumble of words, but that doesn't make it worthwhile
that sounds fun
>Can you think of existing stories with an example of this kind of conflict?
i don't read

[Anonymous No.22096734]

>>22096715
>you still have implementation of your morality
No you don't. It's objectively good. Your morality is objectively correct about everything. There's zero room for gray area when you are objectively correct. What I'm trying to get you to see is that everything is "white vs white" because morality is something we each have to interpret ourselves.

[Anonymous No.22096736]

>>22096731
>i don't read
This much is painfully fucking evident. Read a fucking book, nigger.

[Anonymous No.22096741]

>>22096731
>i don't read
You should probably do that before trying to write.

[Anonymous No.22096746]

>>22096734
>No you don't. It's objectively good. Your morality is objectively correct about everything
that doesn't mean you're all-knowing god
the implementation can still differ
>>22096736
>>22096741
no

[Anonymous No.22096756]

>>22096746
In that case, have you played enough video games or watched enough anime to know what the word "objective" means?

[Anonymous No.22096757]

Stop replying to bait

[Anonymous No.22096873]

What makes for a good villain redemption story? Do they need to lament their past misdeeds? Atone for them? Or is it enough for someone who has done wicked things to say they’ve changed?

Is it wrong for other characters to still hold someone accountable for their past?

[Anonymous No.22096934]

>>22096601
Add quotation marks for reader convenience.
>I must admit, I am quite proud of defeating the legendary eliminator known as Empusa. You are easily my most difficult target. I'm confident in my abilities, but I was quite uncertain if I would manage to pull this off. You're so infamous, almost mythical.
This is way too wordy. The whole dialogue is. It's two actors on stage waxing melodramatic, and the juxtaposition with your other dialogue makes it even worse
>The entire portal thing was a distraction,
portal thing. sounds so unserious

To fix it you'd be best off cutting some of the wordyness of the dialogue and adding a couple physical descriptions to let your reader better see the scene.

[Anonymous No.22096937]

>>22096692
>>22096707
You are a genuine retard btw.

[Anonymous No.22096945]

>>22096873
Any well-written redemption story is a good redemption story. Whether the villain gets a slap on the wrist or has to atone with death, you can make a great story in both cases. But if you've built up one or the other, it's obvious that things won't work as well if you suddenly change your mind.

[Anonymous No.22096963]

Something I find strange Is how I can write naturall diolog easily of course the hard part is making the characters have a unique voice but its strange how I can write it even if its a first draft...

There is work to be done like I said giving them a unique voice and character but it is nice I have skill in that area somewhat

[Anonymous No.22096980]

>>22096756
yeh
devoid of personal bias

still doesnt mean that your practical application of your morality will be identical to others of the same morality
character A and character B believe the same things but they will still go about accomplishing their different goals in different ways

[Anonymous No.22096993]

just wrote for the first time in like 7 months, jfc my writing has gone to absolute shit

[Anonymous No.22096998]

So I got an idea for my crime novel. Well a rough idea. Basically I am thinking that it should have multiple main characters, who get in some shady dealings. And through the story, the situation should get more and more intense and desperate, with the leads being backed up against the wall. So instead of it being a more passive whodunit story, it's an active story, where the leads take the plot forward, and where each action they take, has a consequences. And the consequences stack. That's the rough plan for it. Now I need to come up with the type of crime, and I can almost start.

[Anonymous No.22097002]

>>22096687
>white vs white
2 characters are looking for the elixir of life, or some similar 1 time use macguffin - there will be more than 2 characters looking, but the 2 you're concerned with are both decent, honorable men. one is older and wants it to cure his sick daughter. the other is younger and wants it to cure his sick lover. both women are of similar age, but they're 2 different people.

[Anonymous No.22097018]

>>22097002
>the 2 you're concerned with are both decent, honorable men
Then they would sit down and flip a coin, or agree that they won't hinder each other and whoever reaches the Macguffin first will take it fair and square, or some other resolution that doesn't create conflict.

[Anonymous No.22097025]

>>22097002
If they were decent men they would let the women be strong and independent and rescue themselves. Put your shitty sexist plot back in prehistory where it belongs.

[Anonymous No.22097032]

>>22097018
>flip a coin
yeah, no
>or agree that they won't hinder each other and whoever reaches the Macguffin first will take it fair and square
this maybe. but non interference creates situations where one gets in trouble and the other has the option of not doing anything
also
>Then they would sit down
is a totally unfounded assumption. what if they come from 2 different countries, or speak 2 different languages, or they're men of purpose and action and not tea drinking sissies

[Anonymous No.22097036]

>>22097025
I kneel
and then they enter a gay faggot relationship with each other and through the power of magic they have ass babies

[Anonymous No.22097060]

>>22097032
Two characters are looking for an organ donor. They are both decent, honorable men. One is older and wants it to save his sick daughter. The other is younger and wants it to save his sick lover. If one of the men does something to jump the waiting list, would you consider that morally justified? I think most people would consider that to be grey morality at best.

[Anonymous No.22097075]

>>22097032
>>22097060
Forgot to add, even if they come from different countries or speak different languages, "decent, honorable men" would at least make an effort to negotiate first. Do you immediately punch people out to get what you want when they don't speak English or whatever languages you speak?

[Anonymous No.22097091]

>>22097060
there's no waiting list on an elixir of life, so it's totally different, but in your scenario organ donors are also subject to the added constraint of requiring compatible dna. some mystery meat mutt has a much harder chance to find a compatible donor. so we have the guy near the top with a biological mishmash, and then the guy a couple spots lower who's just some, ugh, boring white dude. is it really fair if the lower one gets an organ first just because it's found first? the other guy is higher on the list!

[Anonymous No.22097096]

>>22097075
why are you obsessed with punching?
a negotiation requires something to negotiate over. if the negotiation is, I win you lose, there's no negotiation to be had

[Anonymous No.22097208]

>>22097091
>>22097096
This seems like a lot of cope to try and justify a morally grey scenario as morally white.

>there's no waiting list on an elixir of life, so it's totally different
Sure, then make it some life saving experimental drug, there's only one dose for some reason. What morally white path are you going to take that doesn't involve starting with negotiating?
> is it really fair if the lower one gets an organ first just because it's found first? the other guy is higher on the list!
Did I argue against this? If it's unusable for the person higher on the list then there's no point in them getting it. If one of the women cannot be healed by the elixir of life or whatever, then the other one should get it, what's the issue? Your original idea made it seem like anyone could use the macguffin, my scenario was one where anyone could use the organ. If the scenario changes then the outcomes change.
>a negotiation requires something to negotiate over. if the negotiation is, I win you lose, there's no negotiation to be had
Maybe one guy allows the other to take it, on the promise they'll both head out to hunt down a lead on a source of more elixir. Maybe the daughter gets it, and falls in love with the other guy so they marry. Maybe the lover gets it, and the couple promises to honor the daughter in some way. Maybe one of the women hears about the quest, and decides to give up their own life to save the other. That's a few off the top of my head, I'm sure there's better. Just because a macguffin exists doesn't mean it's the only thing that matters, there's even some shaggy dog stories where the whole point is that the macguffin didn't actually matter. What morally white actions do you have in mind that would lead to a different outcome?

[Anonymous No.22097226]

>>22096963
>naturall diolog
dumb dog-botherer

[Anonymous No.22097230]

>>22097208
>Maybe one guy allows the other to take it, on the promise they'll both head out to hunt down a lead on a source of more elixir. Maybe the daughter gets it, and falls in love with the other guy so they marry. Maybe the lover gets it, and the couple promises to honor the daughter in some way. Maybe one of the women hears about the quest, and decides to give up their own life to save the other.
maybe maybe maybe maybe
Good! There's your story bro. white v white morality with a number of different paths and endings it can have. What's the issue?

[Anonymous No.22097258]

>>22096594
>>22096731
>>22096746
>>22096937
We live in a society.

[Anonymous No.22097272]

>>22097230
There's no conflict there, that's just working together. It's not white vs white morality, it's two morally white deuteragonists vs amoral nature or society or whatever.

[Anonymous No.22097286]

>>22097272
then just don't have them work together maybe, you goddamn mongoloid. white morality doesn't mean rolling over and showing your belly, it doesn't require cooperation.

[Anonymous No.22097297]

>>22097286
Give an example of an outcome where that happens, then.

[Anonymous No.22097301]

>>22097297
one wins, the other loses
maybe luck determined it
maybe they understood they were in direct competition and the better man won

[Anonymous No.22097304]

>>22097301
And what actions did one take to win?

[Anonymous No.22097310]

>>22097304
he simply got there faster
they were both hanging over the cliff's edge and one climbed up and the other fell
the villains killed one but the other beat the villains

[Anonymous No.22097311]

>>22097297
I've thought about your premise for a while, and I can't think of a single example of "white" morality in the world, or even in history.
And since the basis of fiction is conflict, I don't think it's possible to write what you're trying to, and even if it was, it wouldn't be interesting or compelling.
You're essentially attempting a "Mary Sue" writ large.

[Anonymous No.22097325]

>>22097311
I'm not the one trying to write white vs white morality, I'm the one saying the idea is retarded.

>>22097310
>he simply got there faster
So no conflict between them.
>they were both hanging over the cliff's edge and one climbed up and the other fell
So no conflict between them.
>the villains killed one but the other beat the villains
Literally a pair of deuteragonists in conflict against a third force, like I said earlier.

[Anonymous No.22097340]

>>22097325
They are intrinsically in conflict with each other.
>a pair of deuteragonists in conflict against a third force
they are not working together

[Anonymous No.22097376]

>>22097340
Conflict (as an ingredient for plot) is action. What are the actions they take against each other?

[Anonymous No.22097386]

>>22097340
I give up, I'm not going to spend more time trying to explain this shit. You go ahead and write your novel, the first to do white vs white morality. I hope you gain the money, acclaim, and satisfaction that you desire.

[Anonymous No.22097408]

>>22097376
they could fight over limited resources the whole way. food, transportation, lodging, whatever.
>>22097386
my novels are grey vs grey or grey vs black. but white vs white is perfectly doable. you just need an elemental outside force like god or nature dictating events and creating scarcity

[Anonymous No.22097527]

I'll rush through the second draft in my next vacation. The first one was shit, but the outline now seems a lot better. I'm excited and nervous at the same time. I'll make it this time - and by make it I mean having a novel worth reading.

[Anonymous No.22097529]

>>22095041
editorchad finished early.

[Anonymous No.22097536]

>>22094910
>tradpubbing
May as well shove the manuscript up your ass and start blowing rich jews.
Either way you’re NOT going to be a famous author, so either adapt and keep writing or cut your dick off and write about that

[Anonymous No.22097645]

How long should a short story be?

[Anonymous No.22097658]

>>22097408
Will God removing the agency of the characters lead to a compelling story, though?

[Anonymous No.22097677]

>>22097645
Short

[Anonymous No.22097742]

>>22097658
>typhoon rolls in
>rain, wind, flooding, devastation
wtf god?!?!?!?!?!?

[Anonymous No.22097775]

I feel like I want to write, but when I try writing I hate it. Wtf do I do?

[Anonymous No.22097791]

>>22097775
write more

[Anonymous No.22097806]

>>22097791
Why should I if I get no joy from it?

[Anonymous No.22097811]

>>22097742
Yeah, but that's not a story.
Story structure is goal, conflict, outcome.
You can tell a story about people experiencing a typhoon, and all of the drama of survival and dealing with the aftermath, but you can't write a story from the point of view of the typhoon.

[Anonymous No.22097840]

>>22097811
god isn't removing agency when a natural disaster rolls in. dummy

[Anonymous No.22097858]

>>22097775
You either want to write or you don’t;
If you want to write, write
If you don’t, then try and come to terms with the fact that this feeling you have is unfounded, similar to being in love with the idea of someone but not actually in love with them. Going out on a limb here, you probably like the idea of seeming erudite and misunderstood, which is a misunderstanding of what it is to be a writer. So my advice is to grow up and devote yourself to something you enjoy regardless of how it appears or what reputation it carries

[Anonymous No.22097883]

>>22097858
>Going out on a limb here, you probably like the idea of seeming erudite and misunderstood, which is a misunderstanding of what it is to be a writer.
I'm not a complete faggot, I like sword and sorcery stories so I want to write them (I think). My prose is pretty decent (according to anons when I've posted excerpts here) but I find the process of converting the images and ideas in my head to words on a page genuinely painful so I can't ever finish anything, not even a 5000 word short story. But I do appreciate your advice, It would probably be more fruitful to do something else considering that it's been over a fucking year and I still haven't finished anything.

[Anonymous No.22097892]

>>22097840
Er...never mind.
I feel like I'm responding to an AI, who can only make information-shaped groupings of words.

[Anonymous No.22097900]

>>22097645
1000 to 5000 words.

[Anonymous No.22097928]

>>22097892
and I feel like I'm talking to an esl
>port town gets hit with a disaster
>only a handful of ships left
>one of the two gets one
>the other doesn't
I certainly hope my saying "god" creates scarcity which leads to unequal outcomes makes more sense. I thought it was pretty clear to begin with, then you went off topic and started babbling about agency

[Anonymous No.22097933]

>>22094785
How's this as an opener for a short story?

Grand Central Station was busy as is typical for a holiday weekend. It was the Sunday before Memorial Day after all, and travelers zigzagged every which way like cockroaches searching for scraps, or whatever it is that drives a cockroach to act. Perhaps these cockroaches were pouring into various subway cars and train terminals to visit friends and family and spend the next day paying their respects to the fallen, or maybe they hated America and its troops and were looking forward to finally getting a day off of work so they can drink beer and stuff their faces with 5 cheese Mexican dip that’s on sale. Is that not why the troops really died? So George Bush could eat cheap 5 cheese Mexican dip or something? James had to stop thinking about it. If he thinks about something for too long and really tries to make sense of its complexities by boring through to that substrate that underpins it and gives it meaning, he’s susceptible to a breakdown. “Breakdown” is the most accurate way to encapsulate the way his mind works nowadays.
“Track 15” read the engraving on the granite arc of the terminal through which his train awaited. He was to take it home to family for the holiday. Despite Grand Central’s perpetual state of grime and lack of maintenance, there were certain beautiful aspects of its design. The trains on either side of the long cement walkway bisecting tracks 15 and 16 receded into the darkness of their respective tunnels while an array of evenly spaced lights overhead danced and scattered off the steel and cement beneath, creating a lovely picture of deep, illuminated symmetry. And how cool was it that he could walk towards it, into it, and be among it? Maybe he couldn’t interact with it, whatever it is, but he could be in it.
He was 25 minutes early before the train was set to leave and various clumps of passengers waited outside the closed doors that the operator had yet to open.

[Anonymous No.22097963]

>>22097883
Have you tried using speech to text and then editing it? I've never done it, but I've heard that some people prefer to do that.

[Anonymous No.22097968]

>>22097933
>as is typical for a holiday weekend
cut
> after all,
cut
>Perhaps these cockroaches were pouring into
no reason to extend the cockroach metaphor when each and every single thing you list isn't something cockroaches do
>so they can drink beer
so they could drink beer
>So George Bush could eat
I understand the reference but it's about a decade late
>If he thinks about something for too long and really tries to make sense of its complexities by boring through to that substrate that underpins it and gives it meaning, he’s susceptible to a breakdown.
make less wordy
>“Track 15” read the engraving on the granite arc of the terminal through which his train awaited. He was to take it home to family for the holiday.
I'd combine these two sentences
>Despite Grand Central’s perpetual state of grime and lack of maintenance
So is this taking place at a specific period of time? I ask because you mentioned George Bush and now this, but Grand Central was deep cleaned just prior to 2000, so even if this were occurring during the Bush presidency this description wouldn't be correct. As someone who was in Grand Central a good bit during the mid 2000's it was pretty clean.
>The trains on either side of the long cement walkway bisecting tracks 15 and 16 receded into the darkness of their respective tunnels while an array of evenly spaced lights overhead danced and scattered off the steel and cement beneath, creating a lovely picture of deep, illuminated symmetry.
wordy
>Maybe he couldn’t interact with it, whatever it is, but he could be in it.
maybe give "it" a name. ambiance, or something

[Anonymous No.22097973]

>>22097928
Weren't you the one trying to come up with a story where both sides exhibit "white morality"?
I was trying to help you, and now you're hurling insults.
Not very "white morality" of you.
Never mind.

[Anonymous No.22097982]

>>22097973
I explained already, my books are grey vs grey or grey vs black. white vs white is possible, but you have to rely more on outside forces creating the conditions where they come into conflict, rather than selfishness or ambition or greed doing so.

[Anonymous No.22097991]

>>22097968
Okay thanks.

[Anonymous No.22098006]

>>22097928
"White" morality would be helping each other. The scenario you described is grey.

[Anonymous No.22098024]

Remember that we're writing stories, not discussing ethics. White morality is when the narrative wholeheartedly endorses somebody's actions. Just have the narrative endorse both sides' actions. Potentially schizophrenic but doable.

[Anonymous No.22098032]

>>22098024
That's just grey vs grey except now you're preachy.

[Anonymous No.22098033]

>>22098006
>White" morality would be helping each other
no. and even if that were the case (it isn't) the two parties simply may not even know of the other's existence and/or goals

[Anonymous No.22098048]

>>22098032
There's always some level of subjectivity, you don't have to preach to get there.

[Anonymous No.22098057]

>>22098033
If neither party is aware of the other they're not in conflict. They're just two people with the same goal.
And if your idea of a good person is someone who knowingly dooms an innocent person, then we're just not going to see eye to eye.

[Anonymous No.22098065]

Just show an example of white vs white morality in literature or other media, and everyone can shut up about it.

[Anonymous No.22098098]

>>22098065
I have one example from IRL. Imperial Germany vs Tsarist Russia.
(The Western democracies were the bad guys.)

[Anonymous No.22098102]

>>22094910
I've been leaving them in the Take-a-book-leave-a-book stations around town.

[Anonymous No.22098103]

>>22098057
>If neither party is aware of the other they're not in conflict. They're just two people with the same goal.
Except they're intrinsically in conflict. They both have the same goal - the macguffin - and they are competing with each other over resources. Maybe they even meet up with each other over the course of the story, but for whatever reason they never communicate with each other what exactly they're doing. Which isn't unreasonable. And then at the final stretch, when the goal is in sight, things come to a head.
>a good person is someone who knowingly dooms an innocent person
which isn't what I've said. what are you talking about?

[Anonymous No.22098193]

>>22096934
thanks for your feedback

Personally the lack of a physical description is a personal choice. I always hate the overuse of physical descriptions in writing, because it forces me to change the scene I have in my mind to fit the authors, while mine would work just as good. but theres probably a good reason why that style is so popular.

[Anonymous No.22098197]

My dad gave me this bit of advice. He told me not to take sides in a story I write. Instead of portraying people with one idea as good, and making their enemies as easy to hate strawmen, that can be destroyed, write the people you don't like, with the same care as the protagonist. In a conflict of ideas, don't portray one side as foolish, and other as brilliant. Portray them both as people, who have reasons to believe what they believe. Let them have an argument, don't spell out the answer, and finally, let the reader come to their own conclusions.

[Anonymous No.22098198]

>>22098103
That may be the colloquial definition of conflict, but in writing if they're not opposing each other or act as an obstacle in some way they're not in conflict. If there's only one ship left in town and the two characters are racing from different locations to it, unaware of each other, and one gets there first and leaves, those characters were not in conflict. One just happened to be slower. Think about it this way, if you were playing a game where the plot was to seek out a macguffin and when you got to the end it turns out the macguffin is already gone because some brand new character took it first, would that be a satisfying narrative conflict? Fuck no, because you had zero interaction with them and had no fucking idea they existed, and vice versa.

>And then at the final stretch, when the goal is in sight, things come to a head.
This is actual conflict, when they're aware of each other. How do you plan on resolving it in a satisfying way where both sides still look morally white to the reader?

>which isn't what I've said
If they're aware of each other and their shared goal, then taking the ship would doom the person the other guy is trying to save. If they're not aware of each other and the goals, see above, they're not in conflict.

[Anonymous No.22098228]

>>22098197
Understanding your own characters as fully-fledged human beings with beliefs and reasons for those beliefs is important but being noncommittal is optional. It's a fine choice for many stories, but it's also possible to give all ideas a fair shake and still come out saying that yeah, no, this is the only one that really holds up. Many writers switch between these depending on the topic and the story.

[Anonymous No.22098250]

>>22098198
So there are two problems you're having. The first is your definition of white morality means the character is effectively paralyzed and can never do anything. If that's the case then of course white vs white doesn't exist because no one will ever fit the definition of white morality.
The second is of course they're in conflict, even if they're unaware of who specifically they're in conflict with. As the reader you could see both groups inadvertently stepping on each other's toes.

[Anonymous No.22098277]

>>22098065
Most wars have some amount of that when you get down to the individual soldiers. Regardless of what those in propaganda departments say, those fighting on the other side are often fighting for the same reasons your soldiers are. Its entirely possible, and even common for good, patriotic men to kill each other by the thousand in defense of their homeland.

[Anonymous No.22098284]

How do I start writing anons? I would like to, but I feel I lack creativity and ideas.

[Anonymous No.22098289]

>>22098277
>both sides are fighting defense
hmmm

[Anonymous No.22098294]

What do you call it when you have patterns like these where there is a cross that divides a flag or coin into four with a symbol in each section?

[Anonymous No.22098297]

You guys there are F Gardner mega threads on /pol/ right now over his comments on the jews. What the actual fuck is going on?

[Anonymous No.22098298]

>>22098284
Try to find inspiration. An image, a line, an event in your life, even a scene in a movie. Just something to give you an idea. Then take that basic idea and run with it.

[Anonymous No.22098299]

>>22098250
You do you, I guess.

[Anonymous No.22098300]

>>22098294
On a sigil, it's called quartering. I don't know if it's the same for flags, but nobody would know the difference 2bh.

[Anonymous No.22098308]

>>22098228
Yeah, but quite often such a simple approach can lead to it looking like a Sunday sermon, instead of a proper piece of literature.

[Anonymous No.22098310]

>>22098289
Once a war starts it often doesn't end until one side is conquered by the other. Germany may have started WW2, but by the end of it they were fighting for survival.

[Anonymous No.22098331]

>>22098300
In particular I'm interested in what it's called on coins. I can't find a good image example because i dont know what phrase to google.

[Anonymous No.22098364]

>>22098310
I wouldn't say that's really true. For your WW2 example, they're not fighting for survival of the country, they're fighting for the survival of that cause. Germany still exists even though they lost the war. That's not because the German soldiers continued to fight after the tides turned.

[Anonymous No.22098381]

>>22094785
I'm writing a short story involving an inhuman monster character who has a rational mind, but as he fights it devolves into this sort of instinctual animalistic blood rage. I'm struggling with actually showing this, any tips?

[Anonymous No.22098396]

>>22098364
The Russian occupation and the subsequent communist regime was hell, and both the Russians and the future NATO countries did their best to wipe away German culture (as it existed then) after the war. German now is a very different Nation than it was then.

[Anonymous No.22098398]

>>22098381
You could mess around with perspective. Maybe start in third person and get more stream of consciousness as it progress. Break up sentence with random instinctual thoughts.

[Anonymous No.22098419]

>>22098398
I could describe his body moving on its own without any conscious thought when I switch to first person. Maybe have someone swing at him from behind, then before he's even had time to process what happened, he's already spun around dug his claws into the guy's throat.

[Anonymous No.22098471]

>>22098396
Are they? Are they really?
Seems to me that Germany is, by far, the richest, most powerful, and most influential nation in the EU.
They took over Europe by other means.

[Anonymous No.22098481]

>>22098381
Have him make a mistake with irreversible consequences (e.g. killing someone accidentally), and show how it affects him deeply.
In trying to right that wrong, he makes another mistake, and he uses that to justify further intervention.
Pretty soon, he's trying to do too many things at once, gets overwhelmed, and begins lashing out. Seen from a distance, his actions appear to be irrational and violent.

[Anonymous No.22098486]

>>22098396
We're getting pretty off topic here, but I don't see how that contradicts what I said. No shit a country will be different after losing a large scale war, occupation or no. It fucked up a lot of Europe (and other places), regardless of which side people were on. Do you think German citizens were thinking "damn, this Nazi regime sure is bad, but now that we're losing the war I need to sign up and defend the homeland"? As the other anon said, Germany is doing quite well nowadays. Again, that's not due to any German soldiers who fought to the death in WW2.

[Anonymous No.22098510]

>>22098471
I'm not saying that modern Germany isn't a powerful nation, I'm saying its a different nation from the one that existed prior to 1945. Modern Germany culturally is the same liberal western democracy as the rest of Europe and the English speaking world.

[Anonymous No.22098562]

>>22098486
Germany's alright now, but there was no guarantee the Western Allies were going to be as nice as they were. They could've just as easily did the same thing they did in 1918 and steal a bunch of land and demand absurd sums of reparations all the while their economy is in shambles from losing a major war. Or they could go around rounding up and shooting suspected dissidents, stealing, and raping, then institute a brutal authoritariam puppet regime to rule them for the next 40 years like the Russians did. Losing a war almost always sucks and being occupied almost always sucks even harder.

If my nation were being invaded by foreign powers who wished to take away its sovereignty, I'd fight to the death to defend it. Even if I hated the entire ruling class.

[Anonymous No.22098648]

>>22098297
/x/ too. F Gardner is pretty fucking smart.

[Anonymous No.22098651]

>>22098562
>If my nation were being invaded by foreign powers who wished to take away its sovereignty, I'd fight to the death to defend it. Even if I hated the entire ruling class.
in a homogenous nation I could definitely understand that sentiment. You'd have foreigners coming in and your life would be made worse as a member of a conquered people. In a globohomo nation like the current USA? Who cares. The new ruling class won't be worse and hopefully the old one goes to the gallows.

[Anonymous No.22098672]

>>22098648
Unironically Gardner is probably one of the smartest people from this cesspool. His video about Jewish control was amazing.

[Anonymous No.22098677]

>>22098651
You see my point though, right? It is possible for soldiers on both sides of a conflict to be fighting in defense of their homeland.

[Anonymous No.22098682]

>>22098672
Eh. He’s a flat earther. F. Gardner unexpectedly going mask off Hitler mode out of the blue is amusing though.

[Anonymous No.22098705]

>>22098562
>If my nation were being invaded by foreign powers who wished to take away its sovereignty, I'd fight to the death to defend it. Even if I hated the entire ruling class.
That's dumb as hell, that's how you get Japanese citizens who committed suicide upon hearing the news of defeat because they believed the Allies would rape, pillage, and burn the nation to the ground. Not even soldiers like kamikaze pilots, regular citizens who were retarded enough to believe death was preferable to surrender.

[Anonymous No.22098728]

Might write an experimental book that's just a collection of conversations in the form of vignettes I've overheard and recorded but I don't think my city has any interesting people for such a thing to work

[Anonymous No.22098735]

>>22098297
>>22098648
>>22098672
Don't you ever learn, Frank?
You can't samefag your way to popularity.
Literally no one is fooled by your self-stroking.
You'll get reported for "advertising/begging", you'll get banned for a few days, then you'll come back as if we have no memory.
It's too pathetic for words.
You're not important, and you never will be.

[Anonymous No.22098736]

>>22098197
Your dad is right

[Anonymous No.22098741]

>>22098728
So, "Working" by Studs Terkel, except (probably) mind-numbingly boring?
Experimental? Try way behind the times.

[Anonymous No.22098749]

>>22098705
>Japanese citizens who committed suicide upon hearing the news of defeat
historically men had a really shit deal when their country was conquered. I'm talking being killed outright or castrated and enslaved. women meanwhile just spread their legs and welcome the invaders

[Anonymous No.22098752]

>>22098735
You know you don't have to reply to every single post in the thread.

[Anonymous No.22098759]

>>22098705
There's a middle ground between letting your nation get conquered because you don't like the guy in charge and killing yourself after you've already lost because you think surrender is dishonorable.

[Anonymous No.22098781]

>>22098749
Anon, how many people in Japan do you think were killed, castrated, or enslaved after the defeat of WW2 Japan vs how many committed suicide? Note that this was both men and women offing themselves. From what I recall the Japanese government even set up a program recruiting women to literally whore themselves out and "appease" the occupying US soldiers so they wouldn't rape other women. That's not patriotism, it's retardation.

>>22098759
We're extremely offtopic now so I'll just end with saying that's true, but I definitely lean towards the side where the people make the nation, not the government. If some idiot in charge chooses to become an aggressor and then starts losing the war, I'm working to remove the idiots before I decide to die for them.

[Anonymous No.22098818]

Should I take up drinking to lower my inhibitions so i can just write
Should I take up pipe smoking too
Should I do them both at the same time so I can write more and better

[Anonymous No.22098829]

>>22098818
Now I've never done heroin, so I can't speak to that, but if I could pick a single vice that I could do without any health repercussions, I'd choose smoking tobacco. First cigarette in the morning, taking a break midday, getting an excuse to duck out of a social situation for a couple minutes, it's great. It's really great. I haven't smoked in 15 years, but I love nicotine. When I get older and I just don't give a fuck anymore I'm probably going to pick it back up.
So of the two I'd recommend smoking tobacco way more than drinking. Writing while you're drunk? Very hit or miss, mostly miss.

[Anonymous No.22098862]

Are there any english writers who use amphybology exclusively? I want to see pages of it that actually make sense, going beyond a few witty double entendres.

[Anonymous No.22098925]

>>22098818
Work on your discipline.
Don't crutch on a vice, it could go out of control. My brother almost lost his family because his whisky hobby grew from a small glass to getting blackout wasted at home. So really, don't even start, especially if you might tell yourself more drunk will help. A lot of drinkers inevitably feel that way.

[Anonymous No.22098933]

>>22098862
Subtle amphibology is a great way to build up misdirection.

[Anonymous No.22098956]

>>22098818
If you do that then it's the alcohol and tobacco doing the writing, not you.

[Anonymous No.22098960]

If you use 'I' more then four times in eight consecutive sentences the surrounding work is nothing more then a bloggers larping.

[Anonymous No.22099043]

>>22096270
Imagine turning your intangible thoughts into a way to make others owe you money.

[Anonymous No.22099082]

>>22098829
well you dont drink until your drunk you drink until you can write

[Anonymous No.22099219]

>>22098331
Probably because no coin in world history has had a design like this, because why would it?

[Anonymous No.22099236]

>>22095127
I gave him a typically jewish position (entertainment industry), described him as greed, gross and rat-like, and the main character calls him by another word starting with J. The two people who read my novella so far didn't notice it, or didn't complain if they did.

[Anonymous No.22099238]

>>22099219
t. wrongfag

[Anonymous No.22099242]

>>22099236

[Anonymous No.22099245]

All they want is high concept. No one cares about writing quality. I wish I was dead. As both a reader and a writer this is ruining my life.

[Anonymous No.22099449]

>>22099238
>"t. wrongfag"
>>22099245
Stop whining and write the fucking book. Plebs will literally chow on grass if that's what you give them. Most people are too superficial to have any preferences - they just consoom whatever is in front of them.

[Anonymous No.22099475]

>1.2k words today
>All in chronological order
>All relevant to the story
>All legible sentences
I think i actually might finish my series lads!

[Anonymous No.22099501]

>>22097883
What about using a different medium? Like painting your ideas. I've tried making a game before but I always burn out quickly. Writing has been a lot less stressful.

[Anonymous No.22099602]

>>22097806
Joy is overrated. I'll take feeling accomplished over feeling joyous any day. Writing is misery. Overcoming that misery to produce work you're proud of is a triumph.

[Anonymous No.22099938]

>>22097018
>whoever reaches the Macguffin first will take it fair and square
That's still a conflict. A race, at the very least.

[Anonymous No.22099993]

>>22094785
Was thinking about writing a novel what do you guys think?

[Anonymous No.22100002]

>>22099993
Go for it

[Anonymous No.22100103]

>>22099501
I like to dance about the architecture I'm designing.

[Anonymous No.22100178]

>>22099993
ask us later, I'm busy not writing

[Anonymous No.22100225]

I want to write cop stories, war stories, serious shit about serious people, but I feel so disconnected from that world and with so little knowledge that I write edgy/violent super hero shit. But then since things are "too serious" in my story about teenagers shooting laser beams out of their eyes everything begins feeling absurd and downright stupid.

[Anonymous No.22100232]

>>22100225
sounds like you need to go outside

[Anonymous No.22100237]

>>22100232
I don't wanna hang out with cops, they scare me.

[Anonymous No.22100290]

>>22100237
Either write what you know, or expand your knowledge. No way out of this.

[Anonymous No.22100332]

>>22100225
In the old days, people would actually lead exciting, dramatic lives, then write about them.
Ian Fleming worked in British Military Intelligence during WWII, then fictionalized his experiences in the James Bond series.
Jack London lived and worked on the frontier of America and Canada, then wrote about it.
Nowadays, we just have a bunch of bland, boring, milquetoast softies who've never done a damn thing in their life, nor have they tried to make up for it with voracious self-directed education.
And yet they think they can write something worth reading.
You want to become a better writer? Go live life, and talk to people.
>>22100232
Amen, fren.

[Anonymous No.22100364]

>>22100332
I wanna say something against this, but then I remember Kurt Vonnegut was a POW and Joseph Heller fought in WW2, Brett Easton Ellis was an abused kid who hung out with yuppies, and so on. Did Cormac MccArthy go through some shit too?
Even to write good capeshit, I'll have to go out unless I'm going to be yet another disillusioned pessimist or escapist writer on the level of isekai writers.
Bros... how do I live?

[Anonymous No.22100390]

>>22100364
>>22100332
>tfw survivor of child abuse and extreme poverty, extensive outdoors experience
>makes me a great writer and a bitter person
I'd rather have not been abused and poor

[Anonymous No.22100395]

>>22100390
Post your work.

[Anonymous No.22100404]

>>22100364
>how do I live?
It starts by passing through this portal, to a terrifying, uncontrolled room with a tall blue ceiling.

[Anonymous No.22100407]

>>22100395
I will not pmw

[Anonymous No.22100410]

>>22100404
I do that on a regular basis but then nothing interesting happens.
What do you do outside? Go to church and the gym? Maybe take up acting classes? What?

[Anonymous No.22100499]

Please judge:
https://pastebin.com/Ztj2w5J4

[Anonymous No.22100517]

https://old.reddit.com/user/irevuo
what's this writing style called?

[Anonymous No.22100564]

>>22100517
Pretentious?

[Anonymous No.22100591]

>>22100410
Do you do anything when you go outside?
Do you strike up conversations with random people?
Do you even interact with other people?
Have you met your neighbors?
How about checking out some garage sales? That's pretty low-impact.
But better yet...have you considered getting out of the city?
You could start with low-impact outdoor activities like hiking, hunting, or fishing.
Sorry if any of this comes across as insulting, but I feel like I'm talking to a painfully-shy shutin.

[Anonymous No.22100608]

>get message on Royal Road
>Thanks for the chapter!
Are these bots?

[Anonymous No.22100609]

>>22094791
>longitudinal position
dropped.

[Anonymous No.22100613]

>>22100608
it may seem incredible, but this could be a post by someone who liked what you wrote.

[Anonymous No.22100622]

>>22100613
And you can return the favor by giving them some reputation. They'll appreciate that.

[Anonymous No.22100657]

>>22100364
Fortunately for you, there are a lot of other people out there in your position.
And they read.
But you'll have to write gamelit and post it on RoyalRoad.

[Anonymous No.22100806]

>>22100390
>grew up poor
>4 brothers
>7 sisters
>5th youngest
>rural
>now crippled with a fucked up spine that has left me in constant pain for the last 8~ years
>going to be a 24 year old kissless virgin in July
I've been told that I can write women well and in general my characters are realistic, but romance is questionable. I spent quite a lot of time doing volunteer work and doing things outside from hiking to swimming in the creek (pronounced as crick) to helping butcher animals, chickens, deer, hogs. I think that everything I've experienced before my spine got fucked helps me to write the nicer parts of life, and everything afterwards helps me write the dread a life that you are unhappy with even if it does have parts that you still love.
I spent years contemplating suicide, and now those thoughts aren't really real to me, I'll have them still in passing, but I give no serious thought to doing it anymore. I'm tired, so this post might be a bit rambly.

[Anonymous No.22100836]

>>22100608
I'd think so, but he skipped 4 chapters, possibly meaning he disliked them or he was away for some time and only commented after reading them back to back within a single sitting.
If this was a bot, I assume it would do this for every chapter. Many months earlier I came on the site to see I had 20 notifications from a single person who commented thanks for the chapter on 18 different chapters one after the other.
It is just a general message of support that people post as part of site culture I suppose.

[Anonymous No.22100870]

>>22100609

yea I hesitated with that too

Did you have any other comments on the style?

[Anonymous No.22100879]

>>22100836
>and only commented after reading them back to back within a single sitting
likely
>I had 20 notifications from a single person who commented thanks for the chapter on 18 different chapters one after the other.
autism

[Anonymous No.22100906]

>>22100870
you have consistent mistakes in and around dialogue tags. this should be easy to fix.
you write better when you are not trying to get fancy with it. some of the flowery shit is very awkward. dialogue is stiff in some places. overall not bad

[Anonymous No.22100951]

>>22100806
you should kill your parents for doing that to you.

[Anonymous No.22100964]

>>22100951
Which part? I actually enjoyed the volunteer work and butchering or caring for animals has never bothered me. We only became poor when the 2008 financial crisis hit, but we were never without food or clothes, we even toys we got from thrift stores or donations. The only thing that really changed was that we stopped going out to eat for birthdays and we didn't get fast food as a treat as often.

[Anonymous No.22101012]

>>22100591
>Do you strike up conversations with random people?
Do you? Does anyone?
Sometimes I'm tempted, but it sounds like a weirdo thing to do.
I'd love to talk to girls

[Anonymous No.22101027]

>>22101012
>I'd love to talk to girls
This is you

[Anonymous No.22101043]

>>22101027
i hate those fucking whores who film in public
social media was a mistake

[Anonymous No.22101047]

>>22101012
Sure I do.
I strike up conversations with strangers so often, I hardly notice it.
A recent example was when I was getting the tires replaced on one of my cars.
I ended up talking to the older gentleman next to me for about an hour, about all sorts of varied topics.
No big deal. I told him "happy trails" as he left. I'll never see him again.
I talk to girls too, but I mostly see girls, especially the pretty ones, as highly dangerous, almost like vipers. Experience, I guess.

[Anonymous No.22101113]

>>22101012
Might be weird to go up to people on the street randomly, but you can easily make small talk while running errands or shit like that. If you're nervous about talking to chicks, just practice with people you aren't attracted to first. Old people are great for this, they're often lonely and love to have someone to chat with.

[Anonymous No.22101244]

>>22089931
Well, now.
Following the simple advice here, I started writing a game-lit.
I posted the first chapter on RoyalRoad 2 days ago.
From what I've heard, it's normal to lose half your readers (or more) between the 1st & 2nd chapters. My other fictions on RoyalRoad follow that pattern.
At present, I've only lost 1...basically noise level.
And chapter 3 may have half the views of chapter 1, but it's been up less than a day.
Writing this is easy; I'm basically just discover-writing.
Any time my character comes up with an unresolved question, I make a note to answer it later, and usually come up with something obvious very quickly. But I have time to come up with something better.
The bottom line is, this is really easy to write, and it's already more popular (in terms of daily views) than anything else I've posted on that site.
Readership could fall off a cliff in the next 5 minutes, but for now...I'm cautiously optimistic.

[Anonymous No.22101464]

>>22095127
I wanna give an antagonistic figure in my novel a Jewish name, but I already start off chapter 1 with a black teenager being pepper sprayed, so I'm afraid it'll set off too many red flags early on.

[Anonymous No.22101471]

>>22098102
God bless you and your pure heart, Anon. I pray for your success.

[Anonymous No.22101481]

>>22101464
Use an ashkenazi name that sounds white.

[Anonymous No.22101679]

>>22101244
post

[Anonymous No.22101903]

>>22101244
You're definitely replying to yourself

[Anonymous No.22101912]

>>22101903
The simple advice I was referring to was in the link.
In other words...no duh.

[Anonymous No.22102072]

My book will never be good enough!

[Anonymous No.22102073]

Why, yes, I have written 2,000 words today.

[Anonymous No.22102092]

>>22102073
I have written 1k words of theoretical mumbo jumbo.
But for creative writing, you should do 2.5k.
Well done and keep going.

[Anonymous No.22102167]

>>22102073
>>22102092
you two anime characters have written 2k words for the past 2 months every day. that's a 100k novel already.

can we purchase your book?

[Anonymous No.22102192]

>>22102167
>He thinks its not fanfiction

[Anonymous No.22102194]

>>22102073
I've added ~4,300 words to my game-lit.
Since you're apparently writing anime/isekai/xanxia/wuxia/whatever, you can't put my genre down.
>>22102167
It's far more likely that anime-anon hasn't written anything, and is just trying to be a demotivational failed-crab.

[Anonymous No.22102199]

>>22102072
Then stop trying to write something good.
Write something trashy instead.
Take it from me, it's very liberating.

[Anonymous No.22102216]

>>22101012
People around me do. I once kept up a conversation for over 40 minutes in a hospital waiting room. I'm not likely to strike up others, but if they speak to me I've no issue speaking back.
Tends to be older people who do it, and I've no problem with this as I'd rather speak with them than some other 20 something like myself since I don't really do the whole social media thing, so no instagram or tiktok activity, I've mostly left twitter behind.

[Anonymous No.22102281]

>>22102073
>AI slop

[Anonymous No.22102284]

>>22102194
>AI slop
>game-lit

[Anonymous No.22102289]

>>22101012
>>
>>22101047
>>22101113
>>22102216
Nobody tells you this, especially in this post internet hellworld. But its actually completely normal to just talk to people and insert yourself wherever. Like how I'm doing right now in this 4chan chain.
The more removed you get from 'san francisco internet nightmare people' the more acceptable it becomes

[Anonymous No.22102292]

Is it worth submitting short stories or other work to be published, if you are unsure of the quality of writing?

I dont want to black ball myself from publications, or alternatively, get something publish that ill be embarresed about in a years time

[Anonymous No.22102368]

>>22102292
how bout you take thetime to try and polish what you have instead of going, yep, lots of corn in this log of shit, submit

[Anonymous No.22102372]

I used to write 2000 words a day, Now I'm averaging like 1300. I think what I'm creating is better though.

[Anonymous No.22102408]

I don't know how any of you write so much a day. I feel like I agonise about every paragraph for days before I can write it. I just don't know what should be next for my story

[Anonymous No.22102412]

>>22102167
I am the second guy. I actually haven't written anything. I have zero words, or nearly so. However, I do have 100k+ worth of plot, character and worldbuilding notes. I guess if you are a rich Hollywood producer, purchasing those might be worthwhile. But otherwise I have nothing to offer to the average consumer.

[Anonymous No.22102452]

>>22102412
Anon that's not writing, that's brainstorming...

[Anonymous No.22102454]

>>22102412

[Anonymous No.22102462]

>>22102452
>>22102454
I just try to plan ahead. If I do all of my planning work, I can just focus on the technical process of writing. But, as you may have guessed, it doesn't work out quite so easily.

[Anonymous No.22102486]

>>22102281
OK, so the anime "2K words today" poster isn't the anime anti-AI seether. Interesting to note.
Also, I think that https://www.deviantart.com/kolhoarts/art/Cute-loli-anime-girl-smiling-937118364 would be surprised to find you think his work is AI-generated.
Of course, you know EVERYTHING, don't you?
I mean, you couldn't possibly be caught in a Dunning-Kruger downward spiral, could you?
Not someone as fantastically BRILLIANT as you.
>>22102284
My stupid game-lit story has already received more attention than your precious lit-fic, or even your purple, twee, navel-gazing self-insert crap at >>22054344.
Yes, something even I admit is stupid is doing better than your "art".
And I just cranked out another action-packed 2k-word chapter, since I last reported at >>22102194. Took about an hour and a half.
I'll still edit it lightly, but it's basically done. Game-lit is so freeing; it's almost a crime it's so popular.
>>22102289
>i just talk to people in the real world
>see i'm doing it right now, on the Internet
lel

[Anonymous No.22102503]

>>22102486
>AI slop
>game-lit

[Anonymous No.22102528]

>>22102503
Looks like I broke your robotic little hylic brain.
Wasn't very difficult, was it.

[Anonymous No.22102530]

>>22102503
Get well soon :3

[Anonymous No.22102573]

>>22102528
>>22102530
somebody's mad

[Anonymous No.22102604]

>>22094785
Well /lit/, an idea for a new story finally hit me like a well-placed gunshot after half a fucking year of writer's block and posting my back log of stories I thought I wouldn't ever post.

[Anonymous No.22102623]

Hey, /lit/.

I'm currently working on a book that is basically a dream project for me, yet I feel so locked out of it in general. I might be getting bogged down in research, notes, studying, obsessing over historical accuracies (period piece) and other things. I'm at a place where everything else I need to be doing becomes clouded, to the point where I get overwhelmed and take a step back from working on it opposed to towards it.

I'm so scrambled with the overall story and the ultimate set of stakes. I have my characters: designs, names, traits, histories etc. but I just don't know what the fuck to do with them in half the scenes I approach, even if I do have outlines. I've written two novels before and this is the first time something like this has ever happened to this degree.

Please help. I'll buy you a beer. Any goddamn kind you want.

[Anonymous No.22102624]

>>22102573
Why would I be mad?
I had a great day!
I wrote ~6k words toward a series that's shaping up to be popular and widely-read on RoyalRoad!
And I tricked you into making you look ridiculous...again.
You're never going to post any of your writing, are you.
You'll have to survive forever on the teaspoon of cred you got with >>22054344.

[Anonymous No.22102630]

>>22102604
Really?
I have so many ideas, I have to beat them back with a stick.
I only hold back because I want to spend my time on stories that maximize potential reader interest.

[Anonymous No.22102637]

>>22102623
Without getting deeply involved in your process, there's nothing I can do for you.
If you don't know what to do with your characters, then you haven't fleshed them out properly.
If you don't have their values detailed, so you know what their stakes would be in your story's situations, or know what conflict would arise when two of your characters meet, then you haven't thought your characters through.
It also sounds like your proposed scenes don't lend themselves to revealing your characters, their values, or their stakes.
But then again, you didn't give me much to go on.

[Anonymous No.22102679]

>>22102194
>It's far more likely that anime-anon hasn't written anything, and is just trying to be a demotivational failed-crab.
seethe. i use smugposting as a reward for finishing my 2k.
>>22102281
it's whatever google images pukes out for me that day
>>22102372
still good progress. 2k words every day would be a finished novel every 3 months. even 1k a day gets results.

[Anonymous No.22102689]

>>22102408
i approach on a scene by scene basis. i spend 5 minutes thinking before i put fingers to a keyboard. it's like sharpening the knife rather than just hacking at something with a dull blade. you get into the right mood and work out any problems on how to represent the material in your head. so it saves time. basically the opposite of the word vomit approach.

[Anonymous No.22102690]

>read works of modernists like Joyce
>writing visibly improves
>write with natural ‘voice’
>it’s similar to 19th century prose styles, the ones with very long, complex sentences that are still surprisingly reasable

What the fuck is going on with my writing process. Why is my prose so schizo? Before I write, I always read a chapter of Moby Dick and a short story from Joyce, Updike, CAS, Lovecraft, Hawthorne, etc.

[Anonymous No.22102739]

>>22102637
You could be on to something with this. See, arrogantly, or luckily I guess, I got through the first two novels I wrote sort of freeforming things and filling in a lot of blanks as I went. This time though, that shit clearly isn't going to fly. I have a third act outline which should carry me to the end but I have so many blind spots in that third act as well. I just feel so fried, man. I really do.

Do I take some time away from the manuscript and just dive deeper into my characters, or do you think plugging the holes of the story should be the paramount priority?

[Anonymous No.22102761]

>>22102412
>Character and plot notes
Okay, fine.
>worldbuilding
Utterly worthless.

>>22102462
This sounds like you’re making excuses to justify an utter lack of discipline. If you can’t put in the work, don’t call yourself a writer.

But you CAN do it. Just stop jerking off and do what needs to be done.

[Anonymous No.22102773]

>>22102739
Why won't freeforming (which I assume is what I call "discovery writing") work this time?
Just come up with a scene with some of your characters, and without imposing any constraints, just let yourself write.
You may come up with something interesting that you hadn't though of before, then you can retroactively adjust your characters and story to incorporate it.
Remember, "writer's block" is usually caused by not having a set of ideas that you can actually write. So adjust them, with freeforming!
I also have two completed novels, and although I tried to plan them, I ended up discovery-writing the first draft of each one, and if I came up with something I liked, I adjusted my plan.

[Anonymous No.22102775]

>>22102761
This sounds like you're jumping to conclusions, with an unstated goal of find a threadbare excuse to seethe and demotivate.
Your advice is less than worthless.

[Anonymous No.22102856]

How do you write a character who leads a series to be compelling enough for readers to return to story after story? I mean characters like Sherlock Holmes, The Shadow, Parker, Remo Williams, etc. Many such characters are not read for character growth or change but rather the opposite. I have the idea that they require a sense of "myth" to them but I am not sure if that is true much less how to evoke that.

[Anonymous No.22102864]

>>22102775
more useful than pages of le quirky character traits and this is the lava country by the volcano they build their huts out of brontosaurus bones and the soil is really fertile they also have good coffee
how about writing chapter 1. that'd be a good start. bang out chapter 1 to get the ol' ball rollin'

[Anonymous No.22102865]

>>22102773
Yeah, I remember the discovery writing phrase now. It'd just been so long. So funny you should give the advice you gave, since my gf had essentially suggested the same thing since I'd been whining about it to her. She's not a writer but she still suggested that which is interesting. My biggest problem is a lack of energy these days. I know this isn't /adv/ so I'm not gonna go down that road but I groan at the idea of picking up the pen at all unless I know it's for a reason, albeit manuscript/story progression. Again...something pretty new to me.

I appreciate all the advice you've shared and I'd love more, but you certainly aren't obliged.

[Anonymous No.22102869]

>>22102856
You have to realize that the kind of character you’re talking about is a “static” character, and seldom if ever changes. The dynamic conflict of the plot comes from this pre-established protagonist as he interacts with non-static characters. The non-static characters will always change, often in relation to the protagonist in this case, but not always.

[Anonymous No.22102897]

>>22102761
I don't think an undisciplined man could write 100k words of notes and plans. Although I will readily admit that I solve tasks in a haphazard way. I will also admit that a detailed outline really helps me free up my brain and focus on the actual technical process. But it just makes the whole thing a slog and a bore. So I don't want to do it.
I am thinking of trying to be a bit less structured about this stuff. We'll see how it goes. I'd like to make some money with my writing, or something.
>>22102864
My worldbuilding stuff is more like geographical division, locations of interest, population statistics, wealth levels, architectural styles. Stuff like that. One story I was planning to write was supposed to be a gloomy dystopian story, so I wanted to convey that with the architecture, the cleanliness, the traits of the environment. And since it's a lot of detail to remember, I put it to paper. But of course that doesn't actually make it any easier to remember what you need to remember at every moment that you need it. So, as I said, it gets complicated.

[Anonymous No.22102930]

>>22102897
It's completely unnecessary. If you want to make a scene gloomy you can throw whatever details pop into your head that are gloomy out. It's cloudy and raining. The arch looks like a sad face. All that horseshit is just that, horseshit. Your reader emotionally connects with your characters - they can't physically all that other shit. If your character is happy or sad or gloomy or constipated they will connect with that, not with some fleeting description of a spooky shadow on a wall. And guess what, describing a spooky shadow requires absolutely no waste of time worldbuilding. You have 100k pages of nothing. Who is you main character and what's his immediate goal in chapter 1 - that's a million times more valuable than what you've done, I am sorry to say.

[Anonymous No.22102948]

I wrote 0 words today because i didn't feel like writing

[Anonymous No.22102975]

>>22102930
Well, that's not quite true, because just the description of the planned sequence of events for that story is 30k words. And my character notes cover a lot more ground in terms of detailed descriptions of the characters, their motivations and themes.
I do know that most readers don't really care. I just wanted to do the best I could because I felt like it. I like quality.
I fully appreciate that you are trying to help. But I don't think you are being completely objective either.

[Anonymous No.22103039]

>>22096552
Bump?

[Anonymous No.22103046]

>>22102948

[Anonymous No.22103185]

>>22102573
Symptoms of Delusions:

a) something that is falsely or delusively believed or propagated
under the delusion that they will finish on schedule
delusions of grandeur
b) a persistent false psychotic belief regarding the self or persons or objects outside the self that is maintained despite indisputable evidence to the contrary
the delusion that someone was out to hurt him
also : the abnormal state marked by such beliefs

[Anonymous No.22103238]

>>22102975
>because just the description of the planned sequence of events for that story is 30k words
you're never going to write the story. Try and prove me wrong - I hope you do! - but you've already sucked the fun out of it. Please, get your head out of your ass and put chapter 1 to paper, already.

[Anonymous No.22103266]

Dont laugh at me. Im too 4chan brained and online. Non white, latin version btw.

I worry about even the shitposting remarks possible about everything I do, let alone my other worries.

If X character is say, white. I think someone will call me an uncle tom (not black) or possible remarks, if black (diversity pusher), if a woman i could get either called simping (positive note) or pajeet (im not indian) if anything sexual
I just caught a bad case of shitposting brain worm.

Im so worried, Im normally free and very creative so this way of thinking is new and poisoning my work.
Didnt think like this until months ago.

[Anonymous No.22103287]

>>22103046
gaturro.

[Anonymous No.22103334]

>>22102948
I wrote exactly 0 things tody because all I write fucking sucks ass.

[Anonymous No.22103339]

Did some late night writing last night and I have a character who introduces, via dialogue, another character who doesn't show up for at least another two chapters. Is this an insanely dumb idea or can I get away with it? Or are there any tips/tricks (you) anons use.
For some background info; this has largely been a very "visual" story, so that's why it feels so strange to introduce a major character this way.

[Anonymous No.22103362]

I got an idea for a book but after writing like one sentence I got writers block and already feel like my story is shit and not going to come together the way I want it to.

[Anonymous No.22103370]

Is Worldanvil based?

Been using it to pretend I'm being productive on my novel instead of actually working on it, and theres something cozy about making a wiki for my world

[Anonymous No.22103417]

>>22103339
How should I understand "introduce"?
I regularly mention characters or other elements ten chapters before they show up. I don't expect or require all readers to remember the initial mention (though some do). It can be a matter of a single sentence, or a bunch of hints that fall into place later with the full introduction.
I guess I would do a proper introduction right when they start playing a significant role in the narrative. (This doesn't have to be when they first show up, but I'm guessing in your case it would be.)
This is not at all a hard rule. I remember a book that keeps namedropping and involving a character for hundreds of pages without doing a proper introduction or having him show up. (But there it was a very deliberate confusing effect.)

[Anonymous No.22103432]

>>22095103
>>22094875
I am a young straight white male and I've published short stories in reasonably good literary journals. You seem to forget that the last two booker prize winners were white males, and Shuggie Bain was a debut novel if I recall. If you just look up recently released or forthcoming novels for different publishers there are plenty of white males on there. And if you're really that paranoid just submit under a vaguely unisex pen name.

[Anonymous No.22103433]

>Aim for 3,000-5,000 words per chapter
>First chapter is 8,500 words
>Second chapter is 12,000 words

Is there any merit in going for fewer chapters of longer length here bc I'm fucked

[Anonymous No.22103436]

>>22103417
Alright, yeah that sounds fair. I also remember a story that namedropped some character that was supposed to be incredibly integral to the story only for the author to forget they exist and try to, very badly, ham fist them back into the story during the last 10 pages. Bitch was even on the fucking cover too. I guess I just don't want to make those same mistakes especially when I don't really have a finite structure, I just have an intro, an idea of the end, and everything inbetween is whatever tf I feel like writing about.

[Anonymous No.22103441]

>>22098735
>Pic
This is a larp right?

[Anonymous No.22103477]

Baked Bread
>>22103469
>>22103469
>>22103469
>>22103469

[Anonymous No.22103489]

>>22103436
I suppose the trick is to make sure your reader becomes invested at the time they learn the information. If you give a detailed introduction exactly when they show up then it all lines up nicely, but if you have space between those moments then you have to build engagement in some other way. If the unseen character directly affects the plot or if other characters are invested in them then that might do it.
If there's no engagement then the reader might ignore or forget the introduction.
You can of course defer the introduction, mention them and hint to the reader that yeah, you're not supposed to know this guy yet, we'll see more of them later and then I'll tell you what you need to know.

[Anonymous No.22103527]

>>22103441
It's a story. You're on a writing board, retard

[Anonymous No.22103830]

>>22102865
Energy...I know that feeling.
On top of soul-draining day-jobbery, my problem these days is that most of my writing has been met with apathy, and since it's a lot of work, I want to ensure that whatever I produce will actually have a chance of success.
However, neither I nor anyone else knows how to determine that beforehand. So I'm a bit paralyzed.
So I've decided to write things that are easy, that don't require a lot of research. At least it keeps me writing.

[Anonymous No.22103834]

>>22102856
If anyone knew how to do that, the world would be a path to their door.
You literally have to figure out what people want to read about, then deliver it.
There's no formula for this. It's catching lightning in a bottle.

[Anonymous No.22103839]

>>22103039
Sure, why not.
The only other relevant word I could find was "penanggalan":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penanggalan
But that seems a bit obscure.

[Anonymous No.22103846]

>>22103370
Sounds like you've fallen into the worldbuilding trap.
While that's not so bad for someone writing an RPG campaign, it's deadly for a writer.
Sure, building worlds is fun, but if it takes the place of writing actual prose, you're wasting time.

[Anonymous No.22104781]

>>22094785
I just use chat gpt

[Anonymous No.22104796]

>>22104781
ChatGPT is extremely bad because of its style. You're better off with another model, though none of them are really good enough yet