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/lit/ - Literature

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20932387 No.20932387 [Reply] [Original]

Is the the current philosopher/author with the most influence on modern culture?

>> No.20932391

>>20932387
is he*

>> No.20932425

>>20932387
>Jordan Peterson
I know this very good looking gay guy who worships JP. He attracts all sorts of people. The world has been so stripped of masculinity that JP is the authority

>> No.20932434

>>20932387
I don't like JP but the director comes off as a massive midwit who only hates JP because other people told her to.

>> No.20932449

>>20932387
Shouldn't the title be "Don't Worry, Darling"?
t. ESL

>> No.20932455

>>20932425
JP isn't anything brilliant but he wakes people up. He's a pseud but a necessary one if it starts the process. And I like stories in his book.

>> No.20932463

>>20932449
You are gramatically correct but movie titles can be exceptions for different reasons.

>> No.20932464

>>20932425
If you're an actual normie you might have gone literally your entire life without ever hearing someone articulate masculine responsibility, so it's not surprising Peterson is popular, even if he is a meme of a person.

>> No.20932477

>>20932455
>it starts the process
There is no process, more than half the guys here retreat into Aurelius, Spinoza, Wittgenstein etc. The other half are Christcucks or Buddhists. They never find their balls. We've lost.

>> No.20932488

>>20932477
What do you mean by their balls? Specifically

>> No.20932499

>>20932488
Masculinity.

>> No.20932507

>>20932477
"Christcuck" here, Jesus loves you.

>> No.20932589

>>20932477
Wittgenstein was devoutly Christian

>> No.20932627
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20932627

lmao

>> No.20932637
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20932637

>> No.20932824
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20932824

>>20932637
wtf is this?

>> No.20932901

>>20932637
I'm just gonna assume she's speaking to Jake Gyllenhaal, the mental image is probably funnier than what's really happening

>> No.20933584

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiauKhdI7a0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-cKUkxxheU

>> No.20933696

>>20932387
Olivia Wilde: "I need to cover up the shit I've done. Quick I'll mention Jordan Peterson."

>> No.20933699

>>20932387
I don't like Peterson, because he's obviously controlled opposition, even if it's not a formal thing and leftists genuinely hate him and he probably thinks he's doing the right thing, but it's still kind of sad seeing how much people slander and hate him for saying things they themselves were saying 15 years ago and feeling all smug about how reasonable they were.

>> No.20933721

>>20932477
It'll all pay off in the end, but only if people finish their reading with Robert Moore.

>> No.20933810

>>20932387
He's greatly influential on pop culture, maybe the one internet character I've heard people talk about in my still culturally isolated country, quite positively also, but his entire shtick is histrionic prot preaching, so his influence on actual philosophy or literature will be very limited if any. Maybe there's more to him in Maps of Meaning? Idk.

One cultural trend that I think he's somewhat responsible for is the late glorification of normie life. It's a mystery why he's called a hero of the incel community, admittedly I've listened to few of his lectures, but I distinctly recall one where he was essentially calling for all them to be put down as aberrations, irrevocably incompatible with Being (clean your room or else). So you now find most internet groups (on the right) trying to paint themselves as the normies (well-adapted), or even as overnormies (the most beautiful, the most initelligent & successful).

In general he's very gay, mb a much needed father figure for some losers, but otherwise the kind of conservative who wants to go back to the 00s & would demand you don't divorce a woman who cheated on you, it's actually your fault and your DUTY!

>> No.20933839

He's greatly influential on poop culture, maybe the one internet character I've heard people talk about in my still anally isolated cheeks, quite positively also, but his entire shtick is histrionic cheek clapping, so his influence on actual philosophy or literature will be very limited if any. Maybe there's more to him in Cheeks of Clapping? Idk.

One cultural trend that I think he's somewhat responsible for is the late glorification of normie cheeks. It's a mystery why he's called a hero of the incel community, admittedly I've listened to few of his lectures, but I distinctly recall one where he was essentially calling for all them to be put down as anal aberrations, irrevocably incompatible with Being (clean your buttcheeks or else). So you now find most internet groups (on the right) trying to paint themselves as the normies (well-adapted), or even as overnormies (the most beautiful cheeks, the most initelligent ass & successful butts).

In general he's very gay, mb a much needed cheek clapper for some losers, but otherwise the kind of asscheek who wants to go back to the 00s & would demand you don't divorce a woman who got her cheeks clapped, it's actually your fault and your DUTY!

>> No.20934712

>>20933584
Those people are cancer and so are you. What makes you like this? Why do you love everything evil and hate thinking so much?

>> No.20934797

>ITT faggots that are filtered by the based Jordan Peterson

>> No.20934803

>hero to the incel community

lol, yeah, the guy who says "if you can't get a gf the problem is YOU" is the great incel philosopher lmao. These people just make shit up.

>> No.20934804

>>20934797
are you having a tearful breakdown about it like your manly idol?

>> No.20934814

>>20934803
Amercians have ruined the word incel like Americans ruin everything
Now its no different than calling someone a retard

>> No.20934861

>>20932387
For all his faults, Peterson used to be great at conversing with other, sometimes more interesting intellectuals, by manifesting a controlled and open-minded attitude, and was able to introduce many otherwise ignorant people to points of view opposing the mainstream as well as to the spiritual and the abstract.

Nowadays he acts like a parody of himself.
The vocabulary he picks, the way he structures his speeches and the body language as well as the "professional", studio set-ups he makes us of make him appear as an up-his-arse moralist that his opponents only used to portray him as.

>> No.20934890

>>20934861
>Nowadays he acts like a parody of himself.
thats the thing, something did serious damage to his sense of propriety, some say it was the drugs & coma treatment but i think it's rather the culture war messiah role that he let go to his head

>> No.20934925

>>20932387
He is not a philosopher. But honestly, he does a good job spreading some decent stuff about psychology and religion. I'm not even religious. I don't get all the hate he gets, because he basically holds the opinions of some generation.
I don't know what he is doing nowadays, but I don't really care. And what I definitely don't understand is why he makes some anons seethe so much.

>> No.20934936

>>20934890
>the culture war messiah role that he let go to his head
He's not the only one. I feel like most "public intellectual" types get rotted on the social media feedback and start to lose what little grounded attitude they have.

>> No.20934941

I don't understand where the seethe comes from. By his own word, he directs most of his effort toward "curing" nationalists. He's entirely on the side of liberalism.

>> No.20934946

Peterson should've stuck to psychology. He would also have made a decent moderator for discussions between more intelligent and knowledgeable people than him. In any case, he's gaga now, thanks to the massive popularity and his meds-fuelled excursion to the insanity wards of the former Soviet Union. You really can't make this shit up.

>> No.20934952

>>20934941
Some Freudian punk is gonna tell me to wash MY penis?

>> No.20935085

>>20934941
They hate him because men like him. Simple. That's said expect this to have a best picture nom from the Academy.

>> No.20935126

>>20934946
>his meds-fuelled excursion to the insanity wards of the former Soviet Union
actually a decent villain origin story if they do it right

>> No.20935630

>>20934946
Why did he go to Russia for treatment? His daughter is just as nuts as him.

>> No.20936006

>>20935126
JUST LIKE MY MARVEL MOVIES! Do you think Putin himself sent someone to brainwash him so he could undermine America's democracy by promoting incelism as a philosophy?

>> No.20936038

>>20932387
>wash your penis
>OOOH MY GOD THIS IS CRYPTO FASCISM IM GOING INSAAANEE

why are they like this

>> No.20936062

>>20936006
>Do you think Putin himself sent someone to brainwash him
hmm... now that you mention it, yeah. yes i do

>> No.20936101

>>20933696
What did she do?

>> No.20936106

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVJmMmq4FSc

>> No.20936200

>>20932449
Darling may be a person I suppose

>> No.20936233

>>20932499
Give examples of how a masculine man lives

>> No.20936260
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20936260

>> No.20936328

>>20932387
I dont think so. I'm not sure who a better answer would be. But I rarely run into anyone with Petersonian beliefs and rarely see them expressed in culture except by him.

>> No.20936339

>>20932507
Jesus has been dead for a very long time and is incapable of loving anyone in the present tense. Your supernatural beliefs are unpersuasive to anybody else because they're based on faith, which means nothing. I hope you become smarter and leave this larp behind.

>> No.20936360

>>20934941
He opposed trans pronouns. That's literally it. That's what he's most known for. You are either pro-trans ally or a cis-het white supremacist patriarch male. It's not like any leftist actually cares to listen to what he says.

>> No.20936368

>>20936233
He touches grass and has sex with women

>> No.20936369

>>20936360
lmao no. The hatred comes from being associated with young (white) men, the pro-trans thing is just an excuse to rationalize it

>> No.20936379
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20936379

>>20932387
During the Obama years i thought everyone was more or less on the same page and agreed on some core fundamental values. Public schools and mainstream media revered historical figures like Martin Luther King Jr. and Ghandi as champions of social justice. But this guy, Jordan Peterson, (also Donald Trump) tapped into a segment of society i never knew existed. Apparently there is an entire swath of people that absolutely detest everything that has happened since the 60s. Where tf were these people when i was growing up?
Did liberals ban and shun their most ardent opposition so much that we tricked ourselves into thinking these people never existed in the first place?

>> No.20936384

>>20936369
If this was true they'd hate Chapo Trap House. The JBP hate goes beyond white guys being his fans. It's because they hate this ideology.

>> No.20936393

>>20936360
I don't think that he even opposes those things, he opposes being obliged to use them, it is a completely different thing. I'm a man, you can call me she/her and whatever, it is not acceptable that I start chimping out over it. Or even ask for you to be punished somehow, it could be treated as harassment, but mind you what he is saying.

>> No.20936397

>>20936379
It was only with the advent of social media that every single ideology under the sun was finally able to get into one thunderdome and hash out the truth. It's not that there have always been swathes of MAGA type people. It's that a lot of those ideas proved victorious in the internet thunderdome. One of the early victims of this was Christianity which got thrashed around the entire in the late 2000s, but future victims came to include other moderating forms of right-wing ideology. In an open debate, radicals win and more people become radicals.

>> No.20936399
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20936399

Please stop talking about him.

For the love of God.

>> No.20936401

>>20936384
they certainly hate the chapocels, but there I can't blame them

>> No.20936404

>>20932507
Schopenhauer loves you anon!

>> No.20936406

>>20932477
Who the hell refers to Marcus Aurelius as "Aurelius"?

>> No.20936407

>>20936393
who cares. If you want to be reasonable & don't really care about this issue, you'll be replaced by somebody who does

>> No.20936410

>completely sold out and joined Shapiro's "conservative" zionist news organization
Sad to see

>> No.20936411

>>20936406
Mr. Aurelius you mean? I quite like the fella

>> No.20936413

>>20936406
I used to do that too until I learned that Aurelius was closer to a title. Unfortunately calling him "Marcus" alone sounds too casual / familiar.

>> No.20936412
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20936412

>>20934925
Honestly, if he lacks anywhere it's in the domain of logic. He's not a philosopher, and that's not to his discredit; but it's a fact of the matter that he's now entered into the realm of the metaphysicians and is thereby stripped of his expertise.

>> No.20936417

>>20936407
Yes, that is what happened with him. And he started doing this shit.

>> No.20936449

>>20936393
He misgendered the Juno girl and said he would ban surgeries for adults.
I dont understand rightoids. It's one thing to agree with the guy but being dishonest like this is so unnecessary. Nothing is really at risk if u tell the truth. Peterson is so obviously a social conservative similar to Ben Shapiro.

>> No.20936455

I went years not thinking much of him while he was memed on this site to hell and back, never actually reading any of his stuff or watching any of his videos. The other day I was watching something else and a clip of him came on, forcing me to hear his voice for the first time, and it was one of the most embarassing things I've ever seen a grown man do. In the faggiest, squeakiest voice I've ever heard from a man his age, he looked right in the camera in a nice suit and said something like "Listen up, woke moralists, we'll see who cancels who."
That was so off-puttingly gay that I can't stop laughing about it as I type this and remember the way he sounded. This is an old man people apparently look up to and I would've considered that cringy and embarassing from a sixteen year old. He looked so serious and proud of himself that I would've considered it over-the-top as a parody, like the Howard Dean yell if Dean thought it was going to make John Kerry shit his pants out of fear.
It was maybe three seconds long and still managed to be so absurdly fucking retarded that I'm never going to be able to take him or his fans seriously ever again.

>> No.20936466

>>20936449
He didn't actually misgender her, but I know what you mean.

>> No.20936475

>>20936455
He never really recovered from the benzo thing. Ever since it's all been stuff like that. Lots of crying and embarrassing attacks on the "woke moralists" that sound exactly like a reddit fedora guy. He's all fucked up.

>> No.20936476

>>20936449
I don't know, ok? I watched SOME of his stuff some time ago, and I don't keep up with everything he is saying.
> In the interview, Peterson initiated a discussion on transgender issues. Among other things, he claimed that healthcare professionals mutilate children by performing surgeries on them. He also said he wanted to ban surgeries on transgender children under the age of 18 and make them legally able to sue healthcare workers who perform such procedures.
This is what google gets me. The thing is: "Why do you give a shit about it?". You don't agree with him, so be it? Let him be? What is wrong with that?

>> No.20936481

>>20932507
Based

>> No.20936490

Why are there so many woke marxist/breadtube/badphilosophy types on /lit/ now? Is this a leftypol psyop?

>> No.20936501

>>20936490
haven't they moved on to streamers?

>> No.20936507

>>20936490
In the seven years I've been posting they've always been here.

>> No.20936515

>>20936476
I think it makes the internet left more cohesive. JBP (and the other heavyweight IDF intrallectuals) have relatively plain/nonsystematic ideas that are easy to criticize and caricaturize, make jokes about, etc. Just easy targets 2bh

>> No.20936516

>>20936101
started making some feminist movie starring florence pough and shia labeouf. pough hated labeouf and they clashed. labeouf didn't like wilde's directing job (no rehearsals, etc) and quit. she tried to get him to stay telling him pough's complaints could be handwaved and she could use a wake-up call as an actress anyway (this is all on video) but labeouf quit anyway. so she recast him with some twink singer named harry styles. wilde and styles hit it off and start flirting to the point she divorces her husband (who'd visited her on the set recently) and starts publicly dating the singer. she's so occupied with this relationship the production is suffering and pough takes over and she directs most of the flick. she and wilde end up in an argument so bad that wilde made the whole crew sign an NDA.
movie is now completed but pough has refused to make any publicity for it. wilde called it on the press a feminist movie and said things like how she fired labeouf because he made pough feel unsafe, to which labeouf published a letter saying he quit, wasn't fired, and wants her to retract the statement (someone else puts online the aforementioned video confirming labeouf is telling the truth)

>> No.20936518

I'm a trans woman and editor of rationalwiki. Ask me anything.

>> No.20936521

>>20932387
lets be real here he is right on the obvious things that the left is retarded about but he's also a pussy gaylord who cries in every video he makes

>> No.20936555

>>20936515
So memes? Look, anon, I don't agree with him considering most stuff, but let me tell you something. That is not how you are going to reach his public (4chan or whatever). If you want to talk about your thoughts to people, you have to respect them, first and foremost, not from a superior instance. You have to meet them, yelling from where you are standing won't work.
This is why people get so irritated by virtue signaling, because it sounds patronizing. It is like being lectured by people who aren't even your parents. Even if it has a joke tone, I'm sure you can remember of some stupid fucking joke your parents made about you because of something that they didn't aprove.

>> No.20936562

>>20936555
I'm not that anon but I think you're misunderstanding what he's saying. Leftoids arent trying to reach Peterson's audience. They are using shared criticisms of Peterson to unify and entrench their own audiences. You say "why do you give a shit," that's why. He serves as a target for them to fix their audience around.

>> No.20936571

>>20936516
lol, now her comments on Peterson make more sense

>> No.20936586

>>20936516
>harry styles
He's gay.

>> No.20936590

>>20936562
BUT FOR WHAT POINT? This is why I hate people so much, anon, that I can't even start explaining how fucking mad I feel right now. They are so ridiculously boring, and intellectually lazy, all those brains kept in inertia for so long that they can't even talk about anything that slightly confronts their views.
Then there is this whole certainty thing. WHY ARE PEOPLE SO SURE OF A BUNCH OF SHIT? How the fuck are you supposed to be sure about so many things?
------------------------------------------------------
Ok, don't mind anything above this line. For what? This is what I don't get, they are supposed to inform people about their views and talk to them, come up with a solution to this stalemate or whatever you want to call it. Instead of sitting on their fat asses making memes.

>> No.20936607

>>20936455
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Skp2_vYylU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWo-BuV_WmU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiQsfC-OhMs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7CxoimgLYo

>> No.20936623

>>20936590
>>20936562
>they can't even talk about anything that slightly confronts their views.
That's the point. >>20936516

It's all bullshit, they want the bullshit, not the truth. About everything, as long as society approves it. If society disapproves then it can't be real

>> No.20936628

>>20936590
Not everyone sees it as their goal to negotiate with or even persuade the people who are opposed to their ideology. For some people their only goal is to grow their own tribe as much as possible. You dont have to convince anyone you're opposed to in order to do this. Instead you can capture free agents who havent settled down on any particular ideology yet, and one effective way to do this is to make fun of your enemies. Some of those free agents will join up with you because they think it's funny or because the mockery triggers their instincts to get into the in-group to avoid scorn.

Why do they want to grow their audience? Bigger tribe equals more money and power, that's it.

>> No.20936644

>>20936628
>ideology
Ideologues are forcibly liars and deniers. There is nothing more dangerous than ideologues with convictions. That's where stupidity comes from.

>> No.20936651

>>20936628
Yes, exactly, they want fucking money and that is basically it. I mean, I'm ok with people getting money, but at least move your fucking fat ass.

>> No.20936667

>>20936644
Unfortunately, because we're such a social species, and because ideology is enforced within social groups, it's rare for anyone to truly not have one. If we were a more individualistic species then Socrates would not have even been a memorable literary character because everyone would already be interrogating themselves about every stereotype they believe to be true.

>> No.20936688

>>20936667
>individualistic species then Socrates would not have even been a memorable literary character because everyone would already be interrogating themselves about every stereotype they believe to be true.
We're all individuals, ideologues just don't love themselves enough to be true to themselves, so they allow society to tell them how to think and act.

>> No.20936714

>>20936476
It's not just u. Whenever there is a thread about Peterson on /lit/ there are a lot of /pol/fags that will try to paint him as a kocher liberal when this guy doesnt even agree with the civil rights act. Just because he's not an ethno nationalist and doesnt talk about the JQ or whatever we are supposed to pretend he's not a hardcore conservative. That's a ridiculous standard.

>> No.20936724

>>20936590
>Ok, don't mind anything above this line. For what? This is what I don't get, they are supposed to inform people about their views and talk to them, come up with a solution to this stalemate or whatever you want to call it. Instead of sitting on their fat asses making memes.
Noble sentiment anon but it's besides the point. Most if not all of these people base their convictions on aesthetics or caste consciousness. Both sides want nothing but the complete annihiliation of the other, if we don't get to actual war is because we live in such a lifeless, half hearted time, but fantasies of it linger anyway.

>> No.20936730

>>20936714
This is a muddying of different concepts. The reason radical right people call Peterson a liberal is because he does believe in individual liberty. The reason leftoids call him right wing is because he belives it's good that this liberty allows for the formation of a hierarchy. Calling him a "hardcore conservative" aka far-right or whatever term is silly. He's a classical liberal which is a very mild right wing position.

>> No.20936740

>>20936667
>Then Socrates would not have even been a memorable literary character because everyone would already be interrogating themselves about every stereotype they believe to be true.
instincs well aligned need no self reflection, it's only the sick, ailing, and decadent that need Soc's castrating hand

>> No.20936749

>>20936730
>The reason radical right people call Peterson a liberal is because he does believe in individual liberty
no, it's because he's very lame. Classical Liberalism is a hardcore RW position desu

>> No.20936759
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20936759

>>20936455
https://youtu.be/S5HWucHmxek
https://youtu.be/w6DQ84_Ti0M

>> No.20936766

>>20936740
Instincts aren't a form of knowledge, they're unconscious and preverbal. Conscious knowledge is always vulnerable to contradiction, which is what reflection (or interrogation by others) aims to ferret out. Conscious knowledge minus any reflection would present as something like schizophrenia.

>> No.20936776

>>20936749
No, it isn't. Anything truly radical in the right-wing spectrum involves castes and limiting the range of behaviors available to someone based on their role in that hierarchy. Liberalism is extremely mild in that it allows for a hierarchy to form but does not impose restrictions according to it.

>> No.20936792

>>20936776
The British Empire is several worlds to the right of anything that happened in Medieval India

>> No.20936805

>>20936714
>this guy doesnt even agree with the civil rights act
What are you referencing?

>> No.20936808

>>20936792
You're making reference to a literal kingdom, so at this point I don't think you even understand what words mean.

>> No.20936826
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20936826

>>20936490
Leftist wokeism is metaphysically Christian, it's just that these losers have repressed their own metaphysical presuppositions so as to escape from the concomitant judgements it unconsciously renders upon them. Their entire philosophy of life is the converse of conscious Christianity

Pity is the highest virtue, but not for the oppressed individual ... only for the collective; sacrifice for the self becomes sacrifice to the collective, and so on.

>> No.20936839

>>20936740
It's true, Socrates was so Jewy.

>> No.20936845

>>20936776
>Liberalism
Secularism is progressivism. It has its own way to enslave and it enslaves everyone equally.

>> No.20936848

>>20936826
Trans women are women.
Black Lives Matter.
Believe Women.
Kill Terfs.
Chud

>> No.20936856

>>20936808
>You're making reference to a literal kingdom, so at this point I don't think you even understand what words mean.
na und, words are gay. But engaging with what you say Liberalism is, letting hierarchies be is a sure way to the most predatory and darwinistic world imaginable, with inequality eventually becoming a biological fact. Actual castes and other rigid ways of odering a society are if anything more to the left, since there's only so much inequality and there is a certain dignity to each.

>> No.20936876

>>20936845
Not entirely sure how that related to my post, but just on its merits I disagree that secularism and progressivism are the same thing. Progressivism can come in religious colors and frequently has in American history. Secularists can also be extremely antiprogressive (thinking especially of Nietzsche here).

>> No.20936878

>>20936766
Heed what the Gods whisper!

>> No.20936886

>>20936876
>>"Pity, in so far as it actually gives rise to suffering—and this must be our only point of view here—is a weakness, like every other indulgence in an injurious emotion. It increases suffering throughout the world, and although here and there a certain amount of suffering may be indirectly diminished or removed altogether as a consequence of pity, we must not bring forward these occasional consequences, which are on the whole insignificant, to justify the nature of pity which, as has already been stated, is prejudicial."

Secularism is Christianity. Humanism is Christianity.

>> No.20936895

>>20936339
We'll pray for you, I hope your heart softens.

>> No.20936896

>>20936886
To say that secularism is Christianity simply makes no sense. You're free to have your own esoteric meanings of words but please dont expect anyone else to understand what you mean without elaborating.4dvrp

>> No.20936900

Lol, I had to try that captcha like 7 times and stuck one of them in the post.

>> No.20936907

>>20936896
Read Inventing the Individual.

>> No.20936909

>>20936895
If the goal is my conversion then it would be more expedient to hope for my IQ to drop by a quarter.

>> No.20936931

>>20936907
Perhaps I will, but if its argument is that secularism, which is religious indifference and exclusion, is Christianity, which is a religion, that's not a very promising endorsement.

>> No.20936956

>>20936931
>religious indifference and exclusion
What? "Love your love are yourself" exclusion? You're a Christian slave whether you like it or not.

>> No.20936965

>>20936956
"Love your neighbor as yourself" Is the foundation of secularism. You're a Christian slave whether you like it or not.

>> No.20937000

>>20936406
Better than calling him Demarkus.

>> No.20937007

>>20934814
Incel is the new nerd.

>> No.20937012

>>20932387
JP is a hero to the incel community? LMAO

>> No.20937018

>>20932434
>the director
>her

won't be watching

>> No.20937025

>>20932464
this. secondly, at least here in Canada it was "shocking" for normies to hear anything resembling a right leaning opinion in the mainstream, regardless if you like Peterson, he provided an alternative point of view

>> No.20937040

>>20933839
big Herc in the house everyone

>> No.20937054

>>20936379
>Where tf were these people when i was growing up?

Guess you dont have a dad

>> No.20937067

>>20936956
>>20936965
This is your own esoteric definition of the word, not the common one.

>> No.20937152

>>20937067
Read Inventing the Individual, you need it.

>> No.20937210

>>20937152
There's no point posting this twice. It would be a better use of your time to explain in your own words what the thesis is.

>> No.20937284

Jordan Peterson doesn't strike me as anything new, in fact he's not even that intelligent. He's well-read, and his early trans hysteria helped earn him a place in meme culture. I think people find it comfortable to listen to him, he's a very feminine man but he has a lot of insights that men can agree with. He offers guidance in a way that doesn't feel judgemental; he understands what the average incel suffers, but he also holds them to account. In a way he's acting as a mother figure for a generation that was raised on burnt-out single-mums (aka boss bitches) who could barely care for themselves, let alone their children.

>> No.20937304

>>20937210
I told what it is. Secularism is modified Christianity. The Protestants chose to value only what Jesus said and discarded everything else.

>> No.20937307

>>20937284
This is an interesting point of view because more people seem to ascribe to him the qualities of a father figure to a generation of men that never had a model for masculine virtues. I think the reason for that is he embraces conflict and his message is about taking responsibility and improving yourself which are more typically associated with masculinity. Of course, in other regards he's certainly quite feminine, such as how he can talk for five minutes without making a point, and how he constantly weeps. I'm curious what you think about where he falls on this dichotomy.

>> No.20937425

>>20937284
The most annoying part is basic ideas becoming associated with the boogeyman. The first time I heard about him I was posting some rough ideas I had about Christian symbolism and someone thought I got it from Peterson. This was before the tranny stuff.

>> No.20937458

>>20937307
I know a lot of people think he talks about "masculine" virtues, but I don't really think there is such a thing as a gendered virtue. What is good in a man is equally good in a woman, and vice-versa (provided we're talking about virtues in their most abstract sense- temperance, honesty, bravery, etc...). I don't think cleaning your room is gendered, nor do I think that telling someone to stand up straight like a lobster is gendered. Yes my mum told me to clean my room far more often than my father, but the virtue behind the statement is being disciplined, not in housekeeping. Peterson's 'gender' lies in the way he gets his message across, which certainly appears more feminine than masculine to me (admittedly I'm not a huge fan of his, I've just watched clips here and there, so my viewing experience may be biased towards the feminine side).

The best descriptor of the difference between masculinity and femininity that I've heard is that women tend to care more about people, men tend to care more about ideas and abstractions. A woman is more likely to build a house because she wants to help the people that will live there, a man is more likely to build a house because he wants to test out construction ideas. I'm not saying men and women have to live absolutely in one of these two extremes, people sometimes lean more on one side in certain scenarios. In general, however, caring about people is more feminine, and caring about ideas is more masculine, so this is the metric I've used for Peterson. For example, even though Peterson does sometimes go on spiels about ideas present in fictional works, he always ties it back towards understanding the plight of those who are suffering, and thus using it to provide guidance for them to improve themselves. He seems to care more about helping people than analyzing the bible or Dostoevsky, which isn't bad by any means.

>he's certainly quite feminine, such as how he can talk for five minutes without making a point
made me lol

>> No.20937467

>>20937284
No, his appeal is that he is an educated boomer, it has nothing to do with father/mother figures. Most boomers are unable to present their positions in a clear manner like he does. So, it is not like he educates anyone, he basically explains what they are thinking, which is very insightful imho.

>> No.20937472

>>20937467
And not an ordinary educated boomer, there is that too. My parents were highly educated, but he is a psychologist and a professor. There is that too, I think this is definitely an underrated combination of traits.

>> No.20937562

>>20934941
>He's entirely on the side of liberalism.
Not entirely. He's white and male and has a position at a university and that's regressive. Add to that that he dares speak to nationalists and he's completely tainted by association.

>> No.20937575

>>20937467
>he is an educated boomer, it has nothing to do with father/mother figures.
Most people who watch him are millennials/gen z, a generation of people whose parents, or maybe grandparents, are boomers. Most boomers don't watch youtube, most of his audience is young men lacking direction. How does this have "nothing" to do with parental figures when most of his advice is shit my parents told me?

>> No.20937586

>>20937575
Yes, things that your parents told you, but your parents don't expose themselves to you like he exposes himself on the internet. You are missing this part. At least, this is why I started watching him and reading his books, his Maps of Meaning is a great book to understand those things. I have read the first 3 chapters and they were great. I still have to finish it.

>> No.20937611

>>20932387
JBP preaches self improvement and social conservatism, both things that incels think are copes to deny genetic determinism.

>> No.20937679

Peterson is probably one of the biggest cult of personality cases I've ever seen
He is not Alex Jones, who had a huge channel dedicated to news and commentary

He is a psychologist, licensed, with patients, who got asked something or another about what to make about changing language around transgender, and everything that followed were people so mad and butthurt that they KEPT calling for him to talk and explain more. I don't know how people can watch a video of Jordan fucking Peterson and not see a man who geeks out over his profession and Dostoevsky. Literally propped up by the internet crowd and internet """""debaters"""""". Again, where do you see the Alex Jones hate threads? Mention Peterson, and oh here comes internet, already ingrained with /pol/ arguments they need to get off their chest. The guy lives rent free, permanently. I think Gen Alpha won't even hear about Anita Sarcasticwhatever.

>> No.20937728

I wish I had a father like Peterson.

>> No.20937808

>>20936586
>He's gay....
>.....when he's becoming irrelevant
Gotta cash in on that social 'cred, bro.

>> No.20937839
File: 88 KB, 972x944, pharoah.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20937839

>>20936895
>I hope your heart softens.
not likely

>> No.20937857
File: 207 KB, 496x451, Screenshot_20220904-030328.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20937857

>>20936379
During the Obama years i thought everyone was more or less on the same page and agreed on some core fundamental values. Public schools and mainstream media revered historical figures like Martin Luther King Jr. and Ghandi as champions of social justice. But this guy, Jordan Peterson, (also Donald Trump) tapped into a segment of society i never knew existed. Apparently there is an entire swath of people that hate western civilization and men and white people and can bundle that all together via Marxist™Postmodernist™ Intersectionality. What's more, they have seized almost complete social and political power without anyone lifting a finger. Where tf were these people when i was growing up?
Did conservatives ban and shun their most ardent opposition so much that we tricked ourselves into thinking these people never existed in the first place?

>> No.20938012

>>20937857
a conspiracy theory is that occupy wall street flew too close to the sun, and the powers that be decided to throw marxism out so the social causes focused on that and left the fight to improve the economic system alone

>> No.20938036

>>20938012
I think Occupy and GG were just when it escaped containment. Atheism, anarchism and environmentalism had all gone through their own radlib vs chud schism, with the radlibs always getting the institutional backing.

>> No.20938064

>>20938012
I agree but on the other hand occupy wasn't going to accomplish shit, looking back older and wiser. Still, the rhetoric was too threatening and the people were united against the banks.

>> No.20938067

>>20937857
I kept wondering about this. From where did these people even come from. It feels surreal. Like some horror story in which people got replaced by insane versions of themselves. People who were somewhat reasonable their whole life suddenly became ardent supporters of things theat they would have found insane 20 years ago. Even a lot of the people who initially rejected and mocked wokeism eventually started caving in. How is this shit so powerful when it's so obviously crazy? How is someone so harmless as Peterson, a guy who thinks the exact same bland shit they used to think 20 years ago, seen as some sort of radical thinker who wants to bring the fourth Reich? And the same people who hate his guts have no issue with that woman who wrote white fragility or that black guy, you know who I mean.

>> No.20938085

>>20932387
>peterson is a psychologist
>uses data and science
>TRUST THE SCIENCE BRO
>Except when the science disagrees with our philosophy!

>> No.20938099

>>20938067
>How is this shit so powerful when it's so obviously crazy?
Power. They have the political power because they are an apparatus of the NWO. All of this stuff is backed by the international power elite. It ends in transhumanism.

>> No.20938112

>>20937012
Something I've noticed is that leftists don't understand the right at all. Even alt-leftists who come to places like this are absolutely clueless about how /pol/ thinks. Peterson appeals to people far more normal than incels or far righters, and the whole reason Peterson gets pushed by the same people who hate them, like in youtube and facebook, it is because he tells those normal people they must NOT become like those evil nazis.

>> No.20938114

>>20938067
I mean unironically cultural Marxism that infiltrated the universities and has at this point converted two generations of westerners. It's not that complicated.
Think of the women at your high school or college. How they believed that what their teachers were telling them was just...true. Unconditionally true because they're teachers and "that's how the world works". Now imagine that in the context of social studies. For 50 years. With government agency funding. Headed by very smart professors who know *exactly* what they are doing and what their goal is.

>> No.20938127

>>20936749
>Classical Liberalism is a hardcore RW
Do the mental exercise of going back in time to the period where the concepts of right and left were born and ask yourself if liberalism would fit better among those who want monarchy back or those who want liberalism.

>> No.20938132

>>20938114
But what about all the people who were normal and suddenly started believing in all this shit? These people wouldn't even believe in right marriage some years ago and now they would fight to death for the right of children to take puberty blockets.

>> No.20938152

>>20938127
What do you mean? Marx and Engels came up with the left wing. Everything to the right of them is a different flavor of the right wing. You have been brainwashed by american politics. The american "left" would be considered far right in Europe and the likes of Bernie and AOC would be seen as centre. Someone like Peterson wouldn't even be allowed to participate in politics.

>> No.20938167

>>20938152
I'm in Europe and you're completely insane.

>> No.20938184

>>20938152
You are spouting bullshit desu

>> No.20938187

>>20938167
>>20938184
t. brainwashed by american politics
You realize you're only proving my point, right?

>> No.20938191

>>20936233
Someone that utilizes his power to shape reality into one that benefits himself and others.

>> No.20938199

>>20938191
That's Jordan Peterson retard,

>> No.20938211

>>20938199
Your mom is Jordan Peterson

>> No.20938215

>>20938187
>The american "left" would be considered far right in Europe and the likes of Bernie and AOC would be seen as centre. Someone like Peterson wouldn't even be allowed to participate in politics.
You're talking hypothetically as if Europe is some magical land you can't know for sure what goes on in. Peterson is popular in my country, he gets sold out arenas and national TV attention which covers him relatively neutrally compared to the horseshit that shapes your reality and you're projecting on the rest of the world. Bernie is seen as left but not as far left as in the US. What you call classical liberalism is by far the dominant position among adults in all the successful European countries.

>> No.20938222

>>20938215
>Bernie is seen as left but not as far left
What is the far left like in your country then?

>> No.20938238

>>20932637
>No.

>> No.20938240

>>20938222
It was communists but they lost all influence in the 90s. The new brainwashed left is annoying and does dumb shit but not as insane as burgers, or at least the insanity comes through in different things, they can't abandon nationalism completely for example.

>> No.20938248

>>20938240
That sounds alright. In my south american country the mainstream left is even more insane than in america, way more, and they are already in power and they have like 70% of support among young people, so they will only get more powerful. I'm thinking about just escaping to Europe to be honest, because things here will keep getting worse and even being at the bottom of society in a less insane country seems like a more hopeful future right now to be honest.

>> No.20938336

>>20937458
Very interesting method, I hadn't really thought about him that way before. I suppose by this way of thinking you would have no choice but to put every self-help guru into the feminine category — which doesn't seem all that invalid desu. I will say, as far as virtues, and while I do agree that "base" virtues are nongendered, the kind we find in Aristotle for example, there probably are virtues to the two genders, insofar as we agree that there are two different genders. If things in the same category "human" are different enough to categorize them as "masculine" "feminine" then the same logic probably lets you allow that they excel or thrive by different means. If we allow gendered virtues then a masculine one would certainly be willingness to open conflict, or, as Peterson prefers, "disagreeableness," and that's something he himself embodies plenty. On the other hand a feminine one would be openness to feeling, which, I mean, the guy cries in every video these days, so put him down there also

>> No.20938345

>>20932425
>The world has been so stripped of masculinity that JP is the authority

I don't follow him because I had a father figure growing up, but it's hilarious to note that 98% of seething at him on the internet is because he said men can never become women.

Lefty loonies are still fucking OBSESSED with this guy to this very day.

>> No.20938352

>>20933699
>it's still kind of sad seeing how much people slander and hate him for saying things they themselves were saying 15 years ago and feeling all smug about how reasonable they were.

The overton window is fucking insane in 2022.

You're literally a fascist(r) threat to Our Democracy(tm) if you don't kneel for rampaging thugs or want to put children on gender hormones.

>> No.20938361

>>20936455
it's cringe because he isn't actually an extremist. that's why the threat Sam Hyde made last week was funny/based

>> No.20938364

>>20938352
I agree things are out of control, but don't fucking pretend George Floyd's death wasn't a travesty or that trans rights are a bad thing, and no kid is getting his penis cut off, as Fox News may make you believe. Reevaluating the LGBT and the black community are are a few things we have gotten right. The problem is identity politics and tribalism, and this goes both for right wingers and leftists. Peterson is right about that, but he's wrong about trans people. They are not going to destroy western civilization. They are a minority that gets treated like shit and a bit more empathy for them won't hurt anyone.

>> No.20938373

>>20938345
I think it's also because he is a professor, one of them, and speaks their language but goes against their whole thing. They can't deal with that for some reason.

>> No.20938386

>>20938364
lmfao

>> No.20938395

>>20938364
>Reevaluating the LGBT and the black community
Why did they deserve a reevaluation and what have we gained from reevaluating them?

>> No.20938396

>>20938364
God I can't deal with internet commies. they are every bit as dethatched from reality as normie libs but twice as insufferable because they think they've figured it all out. they're just normie libs who sort of rubbed two braincels together for a second just long enough to get the lightbulb to briefly flicker then they ran with that like they were illuminating the whole planet.

>> No.20938408

>>20938085
Like when?

>> No.20938411

>>20938012
OWS was totally irrelevant, was never going to accomplish anything and was dispersed by a handful of rentacops. And no "everybody" was not on board with communism.

>> No.20938414

>>20932387
Interesting this implies incels would actually do anything to improve their lifes like read a book instead of just whining online to other "incels" about how evil women are

>> No.20938550

>>20932425
Masculinity is just anti to universalism, but it's still necessary for the overall world. It's funny to me seeing people like JP and Andrew Tate blow up over night because they tell men to clean their rooms and stand up to women. Or that men and women are different. It is kind of fucked up because a man denied his masculinity can be a disaster but oh well this is the stage the world thrives on right now.

>> No.20938870

>>20938012

The US system creates this fake dialectic where everything wrong with the world is blamed on the political party that you most disagree with, and the only way to make things right is to vote for the other party. It keeps people engaged in a system that mercilessly screws them year after year, supporting politicians who despise them. It's called Finkel-think, and it works. The left got Finked by "Trump the racist/misogynist/fascist", and the right gets Finked by the "radical-left Democrats" bullshit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_J._Finkelstein

>> No.20938885

>>20938408
Not him, but like when they disregard stats about gender and how each gender tend to choose in terms of work and such.

>> No.20938937

>>20932387
Yes, and this is exactly why modern culture fucking sucks and is dead.

>> No.20938975

>>20937857
This doesnt work though. The "woke", "sjw" (or whatever trendy buzzword) left has a clear link with the sociopolitical movements of the 60s. Their progenitors achieved several victories and set the social order for generations. It's the backlash that is new.

I remember back in the Bush (dubya) era rightoids used to think the military was sacrosanct. I could have never imagined in a million years a candidate that mocked a war veteran would survive a republican primary, but of course Trump did just that and became the most worshiped right wing politician in recent memory.

It's so obvious to see who is the renegade here.

>> No.20939337

>>20938975
You're just an idiot, there's really not much more to it.

>> No.20939737

>>20938870
Exactly. This is why voting blue is the only option to progress.>>20938414

>> No.20939746

>>20938364
Good post

>> No.20939775

>>20938364
>Reevaluating the LGBT

If they really did that they would've come to the obvious conclusion that homosexuality is a disease of the body and try to find a treatment

And for transgenders, well, YWNBAW

>> No.20939788

>>20938364
Bait/10

>> No.20939791

>>20938364
>don't fucking pretend George Floyd's death wasn't a travesty
The response was a travesty, the way the mob at the scene made it impossible for the cops to do their jobs was a travesty. Ignoring actual hard data to promote bullshit ideology is a travesty.
A few months earlier there was a much clearer case were cops actually murdered someone in cold blood, barely anyone noticed because it wasn't useful for propagandists.
I tried to find real data backing up any of the claims, all I found was the opposite. In a given situation cops are slightly less likely to shoot a black person than a white one.
People like you are a travesty.

>> No.20939813

>>20938364
I'm still clueless on what rights trans people were, and supposedly are still, lacking. And everytime it's brought up, it's generally consumer rights violations, which aren't exclusive "trans" rights.

>> No.20939925

>>20939813
Puberty blockers and hormonal treatment for children wasn't normalized until very recently and there is still people who oppose it.

>> No.20939952

>>20939925
I can see why

>> No.20939965

>>20938364
some dumb thug ODd on possibly masonic drugs happens all the time

>> No.20940504

>>20938550
Bill Belichick still has his balls, that's about the only living guy I can think of. Even boxers and mma fighters are unstable messes, they don't even have masculinity.

>> No.20940519

>>20940504
Nah, people are being too fucking stupid. There isn't some "masculine saint", this is bullshit. Idolizing your role models is stupid because you will end up being too harsh on yourself over bullshit. This is as childish as wanting to be some cartoon superhero, which is fine, as long that you realize that you are aiming for an unrealistic thing.

>> No.20940548

>>20940519
George W. Bush was pretty masculine. I miss those days now, even if I was a kid.

>> No.20940566

>>20940548
Yes, but that is because you don't know him. Let me tell you something, anon. Everyone is full of shit, it is a matter of taking a close enough look at them. And "being a man" is probably more about dealing with your mistakes than anything else.

>> No.20940575

>>20940566
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HZ3Tjohwqo

I wish men could still be men.

>> No.20940591

>>20940575
What are you talking about? Do you think people would go crazy on him nowadays?

>> No.20940596

>>20940591
Absolutely.

>> No.20940601

>>20940548
Spreading liberal democracy through imperialism honestly wasn't that bad of an idea. It's just not easy to civilize medieval patriarchal hell holes like Iraq.

>> No.20940607

>>20940596
Why? He is just another politician.

>> No.20940615

>>20940601
It is a crazy idea. Those things are supposed to take time, you can't rush them without a lot of shit happening like that. And it is not like you can reason what is going to happen beforehand. Reason is limited when it comes to politics. You have to be pragmatic, in the sense of changing and observing how things happen.

>> No.20940639

>>20940601
>>20940607
Ok, I'll try to be a public figure and be fully masculine and I'll see how it goes.

>> No.20940656

>>20940639
What is fully masculine? Playing golf? And it will probably be somewhat just fine. Some people will hate you, but you can't please everyone.

>> No.20940673

>>20940615
The main issue is that you can't be slow with politics, because chances are you won't have shit to show and your successor won't even feel like continuing doing the same thing that you started.
I think that is the main problem most politicians face, they have to somehow balance between taking risks and playing safe.

>> No.20940699

>>20940656
Watch how he says "now watch this drive", and then "see you i church". Full confidence, no Tate insecurity or Peterson jitteriness, or Trump over the top bullshit. That's a man.

>> No.20940715

>>20940699
Any books like that?

>> No.20940720

>>20940699
That is just a rhetorical intonation.

>> No.20940756

>>20940715
No, I don't think so.

>> No.20940905

>>20940566
netflix morality

>> No.20940915

>>20940699
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzSK2gAkdD8
Seriously, what is the difference? All politicians speak in a somewhat equal fashion.

>> No.20940924

>>20940905
No, anon. I'm just saying that people aren't sure of things. That is because they can't possibly be, there isn't this "saint manly man" who is doing his stuff and knows that things will work the way he wants them to be.

>> No.20940928

>>20940905
It has nothing to do with everyone having ill intentions, but people make mistakes all the time.

>> No.20940955

>>20940915
>>20940924
>>20940928
Women poisoning the well, ignore them boys.

>> No.20940990

>>20940955
>quotes meaningful and redpilled posts
>tries some stupid ad hominem
>referring to other men as boys
You are either a woman or a glowie. I'm guessing you are both, considering that I'm talking about US presidents and how poisonous you are.

>> No.20941008

>>20940699
a true man of leisure!

>> No.20941011

>>20940990
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMOGaugKpzs
This is the thread official soundtrack now.

>> No.20941207

>>20932387
the lost generation had Ayn Rand, boomers had Noan Chomsky, melenials had Jordan peterson, zoomers have hasan piker

>> No.20941322

>>20934712
Jeez, cheer up.
I think Tate and Peterson are great, but those Cumtown vids are funny.

>> No.20941331

>>20933584
omg that dude doing the fake ass laugh track in the background is so annoying how can people listen to this shit