Bible Thread XI

[Anonymous No.20434354]

Bible threads are a non-denominational general on /lit/ dedicated to the study and discussion of the Bible, the most popular book on /lit/. While some level of inter-denominational bullying is expected, we do try to keep things generally focused on sharing the teachings of Christ, rather then attacking each other. Questions from people new to Bible study are very much encouraged, no matter how basic. Fedora-Trolls are common in these threads and the best way to deal with them is to just report and ignore, rather then responding to them.

Read the Bible online
https://www.biblegateway.com
Bible translations commonly discussed in these threads:
KJV - King James Version - The Classic Bible from 1611, still in common use today.
NKJV - New King James Version - A well-received conservative update to the KJV from 1982.
ESV - English Standard Version - Very popular translation and basis for one of the best Study Bibles.
NASB - The most literal bible still in publication (especially the 1977 edition). Don't get the 2020 update. The 1995 update is okay, with smoother language but loses some literalness.
NABRE - New American Bible Revised Edition - Popular (progressive) Catholic Bible. Know for its shitty notes.
DRB - Douay-Rheims Bible - The Traditional Catholic Bible from 1582/1610, updated in the 1750s. Based on the Latin Vulgate.
RSV-2CE - Revised Standard Version, Second Catholic Edition - Popular (conservative) Catholic alternative to the NABRE. Used in Vatican documents. The basis for the best Catholic Study Bibles.
NIV - New International Version - One of the most popular translations but also considered progressive.
NRSVue - New Revised Standard Version, Updated Edition - The Bible of secular academia, whose progressive policy of "gender-inclusive language" is highly controversial among conservatives in all denominations.
OSB - Orthodox Study Bible - Greek Orthodox revision of the NKJV. OT often follows the LXX, but sadly not always.

Old thread: >>20406948

Thread question: What's the book that you reread the most?

[Anonymous No.20434690]

Did Jannies nuke the old thread?

[Anonymous No.20434706]

>>20434690
Yes

[Anonymous No.20434716]

Ecclesiasticus 6:36 KJV
>And if thou seest a man of understanding, get thee betimes unto him, and let thy foot wear the steps of his door.
I can relate immensely to this. I grew up in a broken home and so too nearly followed the self-same path. However, I had my dear grandfather whom I would attentively listen to nearly every day when I was a child, who had lived and spoke truth to be heard with no want to persuade or convince in his heart, just truth, even after being on the losing side of war and all the tortures that came therewith. I still don't understand why my father never listened.
Apocrypha - 'that which is hidden'. Someone desires it to be hidden...
Why must the Protestant (mis)leaders cleave unto the Canon of rabbinical, talmudic, kabbalist, khazarim pretending to be pharisees who spit on the name of Christ Jesus? All because "it's in Greek"? So is the New Testament and the INRI. They miss out on so much wisdom. One day, a Dead Sea Scroll will wash up humble them towards communion - this, I pray.

[Anonymous No.20434719]

>>20434690
I guess they can’t bother to clean up spam and just deleted it instead. Not that I am too surprised at this.

[Anonymous No.20434731]

>>20434716
and humble*

[Anonymous No.20435019]

I read the NWT recently, let me tell you the fanfiction vibes are real

[Anonymous No.20435188]

>"Our holy mother, the Church, holds and teaches that God, the first principle and last end of all things, can be known with certainty from the created world by the natural light of human reason."
>with certainty
how can you be certain though?

[Anonymous No.20435361]

>>20434731
You first.

[Anonymous No.20435553]

What am I in for lads?

[Anonymous No.20435583]

>>20434716
Ecclesiasticus was found to have hebrew manuscripts in 2 different synagogues too so luther's reason for it's non inclusion isn't valid anymore

[Anonymous No.20435591]

Thought I'd share my newest acquisition. Clementine Vulgate by Edizioni San Paolo, a big Catholic publisher. Hard to find online.

[Anonymous No.20435610]

>>20435553
fanfic

[Anonymous No.20435724]

Why not MEV?

[Anonymous No.20435770]

>>20435724
Because faggotry is sin and not to be pandered to.

[Anonymous No.20435810]

>>20435770
Faggotry? I don't know anything about MEV, does ittry to justify fucking men?

[Anonymous No.20435837]

>>20435810
You can tell it caters to faggots right there because the Hebrew is "knew" but they are changing it to "had relations" because fags aren't man enough to learn what "knew" means and need everything more spoon fed. The NIV is obviously off the charts on the gay meter.

[Anonymous No.20436142]

I'm in awe of how much culture the Bible has spawned. It's so fucking beautiful, anons... all the music, paintings, poetry, philosophy, ethics, movies, literature, and customs. It's incredible if you think about it. The most important single thing in all of human civilization.

[Anonymous No.20436161]

>>20436142
>The most important single thing in all of human civilization
Yes.

[Anonymous No.20436908]

What's the best version of the catechism to read? Have my eye on pic related so far.

[Anonymous No.20436927]

which denomination best adheres to the KJV and is not pro gay, pro abortion, or pro Israel?

[Anonymous No.20437266]

Can someone explain to me why the NRSV specifying when certain passages are talking about all people vs males specifically is a bad thing? How is it bad for it to be more accurate? Or is it all just directionbrained retards seething for no reason?

[Anonymous No.20437333]

>>20437266
Scripture is for men. Women are need to know and do as told.

[Anonymous No.20437370]

>>20436927
KJV

[Anonymous No.20437387]

>>20436927
https://www.google.com/search?q=kjv+only+church+finder&oq=kjv+only+church+finder

[Anonymous No.20437425]

>>20436927
They're all pro Israel from what I've seen

[Anonymous No.20437819]

>>20436908
I thought there was only one unless you're shopping for the introduction.

[Anonymous No.20437824]

>>20437425
What if Israel is good but Jews are bad?

[Anonymous No.20437886]

>>20437824
Secular Sovereign state of 'Israel' =/= the Sons of Jacob.
If Zion is the Land of Milk and Honey, why are Ashkenazim and Sephardim both majority lactose intolerant?

[Anonymous No.20437893]

>>20436927
>adheres to the KJV
Glass dichotomy, KJV is a translation of the liturgical books of the early church. To answer your question, the KJV is based on the Orthodox Church; a church that follows KJV is attempting to recreate that which already exists; the church of Jesus Christ built by the apostles

[Anonymous No.20437899]

>>20437893
False*

[Anonymous No.20438210]

why is there so much sexual abuse in the catholic church?

[Anonymous No.20438447]

>>20438210
Why is there so much in protestant churches and public education systems too while we're at it?

[Anonymous No.20438453]

>>20438210
Because they are ~80% gay.

[Anonymous No.20438486]

>>20438447
prove there's as much in protestant churches. I never hear about anything in the protestant churches here or any at schools either, but there were 3 priests credibly accused at the local diocese a few years ago.

celibacy is not good for a man. They degenerate into coomers and then into groomers

[Anonymous No.20438645]

>>20438447
The Royal Commission Into Institutional Child Sexual Abuse was way worse for the Papists than Protestants, and barely had to deal with secular schools at all.

[Anonymous No.20438797]

pax bros.
>>20434716
everything happens for a reason, even the Reformation, and I say that as a Catholic
>>20435019
it's unironically a very accurate translation of the hebrew and is sometimes used a reference english translation. doesn't change that it's manipulative a lot in the NT
>>20435188
the certainty that is spoken of is more a negative theology than a positive "knowing". apophatic theology
>>20435553
take a good deal of what is written as "history" with a grain of salt in that book
>>20435591
interesting pickup. what's your intention with this?
>>20436142
the psalms alone are really a lifetime worth of prayer and reflection. it's amazing how much lectio divina you can do with the psalms. Merton wrote a lot about this in particular.
>>20436908
you pictured the best version. it has the Francis update. I actually used to have this version until I donated it: the commentary is MASSIVE, its like 1500pages of small print. it was legitimately too much to be useful, it's a lot of tedious stuff too unfortunately. great version though. I think it's very expensive now, I got it when you could buy it for 50 bucks.
>>20436927
a denomination which worships a translation and not the one true God.
>>20437266
it's not a bad thing: in the greek, adelphoi in paul is literally a gender neutral term. a lot of the "gender wars" stems for 80s-00s evangelical infighting in the USA which bled into all other translation departments as a political thing. All the modern translations use some version of gender neutrality as its grammatically accurate: even the esv and nasb.
>>20438210
statistically there are more sexual abusers in public schools than the Church. it's really a homosexual problem, unironically. the vast VAST majority of the abuse was male-male. the short version of the story in that in the West from 1900 to 1960 or so the catholic population absolutely boomed in places like the USA and Australia specifically. there was a large need for priests and they basically took anyone who applied in the seminary. it was a very cushy job at the time and a lot of families who were catholic with a "fruity" son would push him towards the priesthood as it was also a prestigious role. add lax admissions policies to the fact that a lot of bishops turned a blind eye to any abuses for financial and political reasons and you have the crisis.

not to excuse it but if you read the abuse reports from the USA specifically the vast majority of cases happened before 1980 (when the Holy See started to institute major seminary reform).
>>20438447
>>20438486
there is also a lot in protestant churches: see the recent large baptist scandals and the 00s anglican scandals. there's also been major sex abuse scandals in evangelical megachurches especially in the past 10 years.

[Anonymous No.20438825]

>>20438797
>>20436908
Just to add to the Catechism post, I don't think the 2000 catechism is really that good. there's a lot that it's missing with regards to moral theology and they refused to adopt great post v2 catechisms into the text like the New Catechism and the Dutch Catechism. I find a lot of the positions presented to be given as magisterial proclamations when they're really not, theologically (a good example of this is the section on drugs). Also there tends to be a discounting of the mystical and Orthodox theological traditions in the text as a whole.

[Anonymous No.20439136]

>christlarping

[Anonymous No.20439177]

>>20438486
You can say a lot of things about child sexual abuse in the Catholic church, but celibacy is firmly Biblical. It was not always necessary for priests to be unmarried, but celibacy has always been a part of Christianity, dating back to Paul instructing us in it, not only as a good thing, but as superior to marriage, if we are capable of it.

[Anonymous No.20439310]

>>20439177
But if everyone did it humans would just die so how can it be superior to it? Seems inferior because it's not essential unlike starting a family.

[Anonymous No.20439327]

Church service today

[Anonymous No.20439394]

>>20439310
It is true that if everyone held to celibacy, the race would die out, but celibacy is not intended for mass application. Marriage is a common good, but, as Thomas Aquinas said, “the human family is sufficiently provided for if some undertake the responsibility of bodily generation, while others are free in order to devote themselves to the study of divine things, for the health and beauty of our race.” In other words it's not necessary for everyone to marry, only that some part of the population does.
Sticking only to the Bible when it comes to the superiority of celibacy, it is sufficient to point out Paul's words in 1st Corinthians 7: "It is good for a man not to touch a woman," and "for I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that. I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I."

[Anonymous No.20439471]

>>20438486
>prove there's as much in protestant churches
https://sites.law.duq.edu/juris/2019/03/16/catholic-priest-sex-abuse-scandals-how-the-media-shapes-the-public-perception-of-child-abuse-in-the-catholic-church/
>The U.S. Department of Education found that 5% to7% of public school teachers engage in sexual abuse of children per year.[6] In addition, a small scale study found that 4% of Anglican priests had sexually abused minors in western Canada and other religious leaders and clerics engage in this type of behavior as well.[7]

[Anonymous No.20439534]

Scripture ends the Catholic.

5For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders (πρεσβυτέρους presbyterous) in every city, as I had appointed thee: 6If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children

[Anonymous No.20439559]

Bought NIV bible today.
Just want something easy to read.
Where should I start? How do I read the bible.
inb4 the start

[Anonymous No.20439779]

>>20439327
They played a Bible Project video about Jesus the Social Revolutionary and why multiculturalism is good, then the woman who was reading the verses kept quipping and chiming in with "that's not very of them, is it?" and "that's a bit harsh!". Is this what Protestant churches are like? They also had a NRSV for every seat.

[Anonymous No.20440017]

What do you on Sunday? Do you ever work?

[Anonymous No.20440023]

>>20434354
going camping and bringing my KJV with me
cant fucking wait

[Anonymous No.20440032]

>>20440023
Why not read it now?

[Anonymous No.20440093]

>>20439559
Genesis. NT-onlyers forget that Jesus was not only a new beginning, but a culmination of all that came before. For what is the Alpha and the Omega, if not for the Beta, the Gamma, through to Chi and Psi?
>>20440017
I go to Mass in English and Spanish both, in Australia.
>>20440023
>>20440032
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqaoK8QJ5Zw

[Anonymous No.20440098]

>>20439779
Sounds like a big city. At any church around here they would be instructed to sit down, at best.

[Anonymous No.20440162]

>>20439559
Matthew, Mark, Luke, Acts, John, Epistles, Revelation, OT.
you can swap the four Gospels around but read Luke and Acts together, he wrote both.
as for the OT, you could try finding some sort of reading plan.

[Anonymous No.20440522]

what are our thoughts on mega churches. Thinking of joining my local baptist mega church. I watched some of the sermons on their youtube and the pastor seems pretty based (anti abortion, anti gay, anti BLM)

But I do mean mega church. It has a bowling alley, 3 story parking garage, college classes, all kinds of community outreach, there's a bunch of rich people and state politicians that attend. There's even a Cafe inside that serves up all kinds of different coffee for free.

mite b cool

[Anonymous No.20440540]

>>20440522
You should go to a Church that has rich spiritual food not because it has a bowling alley and is involved in politics. Having said that it's better to go to it than go to no Church at all

[Anonymous No.20440549]

>>20440540
Where did he say he's going there because it has a bowling alley? It sounds you're misrepresenting the thoughts of those you pretend to try to help.

[Anonymous No.20440584]

>>20440549
I'm just suspicious of 'mega churches' I think they push prosperity gospel. I did say it was better than not going to church but she should beware churches like that.>>20440549

[Anonymous No.20440865]

>>20440093
>in Australia
And just like that, so much is explained.

[Anonymous No.20440914]

You literally have not read the bible unless you speak hebrew, koine greek, etc. it is almost trivially easy to see kjv is shit

[Anonymous No.20441034]

americans fear the KJV because it requires a 5th grade reading level

[Anonymous No.20441079]

>>20440914
How hard is it to learn Koine Greek on your own?

[Anonymous No.20441097]

>>20441079
hard. some places give out help; i saw a site that offers Biblical Hebrew.
might be nice to learn modern greek and then work around it to get koine

[Anonymous No.20441303]

Posted this the other day and no one said anything so I'll ask again.
Pic related is at the end of first Corinthians in one of my kjvs
In another it's not
Where does this note come from and is it correct or incorrect to include it?

[Anonymous No.20441320]

>>20441303
It's in mine. It probably took at least days to compose and those were the scribes taking diction.

[Anonymous No.20441585]

What's the devil in the Bible? Is it an actual thing?

[Anonymous No.20441777]

>>20440522
Megachurches are abominations and those who go to them are retards. You're better off going to a simple, plain, old-fashioned white-painted congregational church than a megachurch.

[Anonymous No.20441836]

>>20441777
>You're better off going to a simple, plain, old-fashioned white-painted congregational church than any other non house church.
Checked holy 7s but FTFY.

[Anonymous No.20442222]

>>20441777
checked

[Anonymous No.20442286]

>>20442222
CHECKED CHECK

[Anonymous No.20442640]

>>20440522
Megachurches from my experience aren't terribly good, any church that large is much more susceptible to greed and corruption. Plus the community at that level is completely atomized. A ton of people at those megachurches also just love to "play" christian.

Find a smaller local church, usually the pastors are more humble. Matthew 7:15-20

[Anonymous No.20443023]

>>20441034
Americans are such a stronghold for the Ki n g Jame s that we have our own independent hand bindery that uses the Pure Cambridge Edition to buy them from and they don't say """"""""""version"""""""""" on the cover.

[Anonymous No.20443034]

>>20440914
just read the charles thomson translation

[Anonymous No.20443050]

only version worth reading

[Anonymous No.20443296]

>>20440540
>>20440584
>>20441777
>>20442640

Well another reason I'm thinking of going there is because it's actually refreshing to see that many white people gathered in one place. I was watching their youtube channel and I honestly can't remember the last time I saw such a large gathering of like 98% white people. I also checked out the local catholic church but that was like 95% hispanics, and not that I hate non whites but I don't think there's anything wrong with having a social preference towards your own race/culture that shares the same values as you.

And yeah it's a mega church but the preaching is very conservative and traditional which I like. But also they seem to do a lot of good with the money. The church runs multiple charities. For example a couple years ago they were in the news for paying off over $9million of the towns medical debt, about 4000 people had their medical debts paid off by the church.

[Anonymous No.20443332]

>>20443296
>church has to pay for your medical bills or you go broke
do americans really?

[Anonymous No.20443358]

>>20443296
Sounds breddy gud to me. I think you should just go and not concern yourself with the opinions of others. Go and see directly. Regardless of what church you go to you should always devote to a constant deepening of Scriptural knowledge/understanding, an be very careful with how you intake the teachings of others. Always be on the alert for falling into any traps of superiority, self righteousness, etc. While the odds tend to be against a megachurch being "sound", there is no inherent reason for them being entirely incapable of soundness. Also, it could serve as a valuable step along your own path even if it doesn't turn out to be the place you decide to put full roots into.

[Anonymous No.20443378]

>>20441585
He’s a fallen angel who in his pride ‘rebelled’ against God and hates humans and everything good, godly and beautiful. It’s a fool’s errand of course for him—he knows he cannot win, and is merely trying to drag sinners into hell with him out of spite at this point. The devil and demons are very real, and they can be often seen harassing and tempting saints and monks throughout history. Even average Christians can have demonic experiences though. Demons are losers though. Do not fear Satan or his buddies

[Anonymous No.20443781]

I have never read the bible but I got a question. Why was the bible, or christianity, such an energizing force in history?

[Anonymous No.20443798]

>>20443781
because its true

[Anonymous No.20443863]

>>20443781
Truth is powerful stuff

[Anonymous No.20443879]

>>20443798
reckon i might give the bible a read. a life of secular liberal progressivism seems to have only made me boring and miserable.

[Anonymous No.20443941]

>>20443798
Whoever corrects a scoffer gets himself abuse, and he who reproves a wicked man incurs injury. Do not reprove a scoffer, or he will hate you; reprove a wise man, and he will love you.
Proverbs 9:7-8 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/pro.9.7-8.ESV

[Anonymous No.20444396]

>>20443879
You should try mushrooms

[Anonymous No.20444486]

>>20440865
Pray, do tell.

[Anonymous No.20444499]

>>20438797
>everything happens for a reason, even the Reformation, and I say that as a Catholic
Yes, but for good reasons or bad reasons?
There's a difference between constructive criticism to the point of the Devil's Advocate and an actual, spiteful desire to see those whom we pray for to instead be sent to hell in the arrogance of 'I told you so'.
>>20441303
Ancient literature often has the author refer to himself in the third person.

[Anonymous No.20444575]

May the Sign of the Cross be done in left-handed fashion?
I'm right-handed but remain curious nonetheless. I know it wouldn't be much effort on their part to do it contrary to their dexterity, but I also see so many styles of praying, be it hand against hand or with fingers intertwined, on the pew or off, or with head bowed or not, so I know some variance is permitted in the Catechism.

[Anonymous No.20444778]

>>20443378
>The devil and demons are very real,
But people like Augustine say that evil is justs the absence of good andn has no existence of its own.

[Anonymous No.20444892]

>>20444778
The spiritual world knows no geometry as they may be seen simultaneously at more places than one (Legion, for example), so how can an Angel fall? By nature, from the good light of God into the self-made darkness away from him that they can only by their choosing.
We may not realise it at times (especially atheists), but on God's grace do we live. Take this scientific analogy: we live in a warm, oxygenated, pressurised atmosphere, be it under a geocentric firmament or on a heliocentric planet, the physics are the same. The moment that is removed, we die. Should we enter the confines of space or be put into a vacuum chamber on Earth, our blood boils, our organs burst, and we freeze, all at the same time - this is the absence of all that sustains us. So imagine - if you will - Satan as a kind of spiritual vacuum, even a kind of theoretical Black Hole (or Black Sun), whose point of being is to send souls unto perdition (to be lost) with whatsoever temptation available, which ultimately comes from within Man, for he is too by nature evil considering the Original Sin.
So Evil is definitely an absence of good both materially and spiritually, but the manifestation is more apparent in the spiritual owing to the flesh, yet it is also to be remembered that the Holy Spirit is not the only spirit else why is it called so for there must be unholy spirits in comparison.
>Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good. - Romans 12:21
'Nature abhors a vacuum'.

[Anonymous No.20445027]

>>20441777
Checked.

Ditched megachurches years ago, attend small presbyterian church. Made real friendships, enjoy authentic community, don't get hassled for money with the megachurch Hussle.
Megachurches are inherently consumer culture-esque. Ugly in the face, ugly in the soul.

[Anonymous No.20445300]

So God created our world and our souls, but does this mean everything is created by God? Can souls not create new ideas that are thus but directly created by God but rather created by his creations? So then God didn't create everything?

[Anonymous No.20445305]

>>20445300
>but directly
not* directly

[Anonymous No.20445343]

>>20445300
That is how I interpret it as well. God did not create violins but gave man the natural resources and free will to do so. Man made the violin and from it came some things meaningless and some things written in praise of god, like Bach

[Anonymous No.20445346]

>>20444778
Evil as some sort of metaphysical category doesn’t exist. The potential for anything like ‘evil’ only exists in the will of free beings.

[Anonymous No.20445349]

>>20445343
Maybe it's only pantheists who think everything is created by God and then they have to deal with explaining why God created evil too

[Anonymous No.20445351]

>>20445346
What do you mean by metaphysical category and what metaphysical categories exist?

[Anonymous No.20445352]

>>20440522
Go to an Orthodox Church, Christ is most definitely present in a very real way. Mega churches have items, but the Orthodox Church is something to behold. Go call a priest and look for an English speaking church or monastery

[Anonymous No.20445411]

>>20444778
Augustine is a mere philosopher and did not write Scripture.

[Anonymous No.20445434]

>>20445351
Like God exists and is the good. Good is thus a substance or a real thing, while evil is not. God created the world ‘very good’ and the New Testament reaffirms that all things created by God are good, thus everything is good. Outside of free will there is no such thing as ‘evil’, which is a distortion of the good

[Anonymous No.20445438]

>>20445349
Its the same argument you see retards on reddit use
>oh how can god be real because look at this child rape happening
Evil exists because men are weak and no other reason. If every man made the right choice there would be no evil
>>20445352
Based

[Anonymous No.20445441]

>>20445434
So you mean evil doesn't exist as a substance right? What substances exist? God/good and that's it? Or are our souls another substance and the world another substance? Are there 3 substances, more?

[Anonymous No.20445442]

>>20445352
Divine Liturgy is really a next level experience. Even in the small parish I went to for my first one it lived up to the name
https://youtu.be/n8WgXhdaojc

[Anonymous No.20445452]

>>20445438
Natural disasters would still happen and they would still kill innocents. Is there no evil in innocents dying?

[Anonymous No.20445455]

>>20445441
Yeah, evil is not a substance. When it comes to the question of what other substances exist, I have no clue. God / good exists, obviously The world is created by God ex nihilo and is sustained by Him, but is not Him. That’s all I know. He’s immanent and transcendent of it

[Anonymous No.20445456]

>>20445452
No its tragic but not evil, evil is an intentional act

[Anonymous No.20445458]

>>20445452
Natural disasters aren’t evil. They can also be chastisements of God against the wicked, or ways to prevent even greater sins happening to some in the future. In general they are just a product of the disordered state of the world at the Fall