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20085831 No.20085831[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

I know this board likes to hate on trad writers like Roger Scruton and John Milbank but honestly how many other guys are making a real effort to defend western values from Islam which at this point is almost the complete opposite? Even Peter Hitchens is caving

>> No.20085858

What do you consider trad?

>> No.20085866

>>20085831
Most people who are trying to "defend western values from Islam" are not traditionalists, Scruton included. They are usually classical liberals following on in the traditions of the French and American revolutions. Their definition of "Western values" is liberalism, sexual freedom, feminism, and so on. The difference is they're less crazy than the LGBTQ+ leftists.
Traditionalists have more in common with Muslims than we do with conservatives.

>> No.20085867

>>20085858
In favor of western values and opposed to Islam

>> No.20085871

>>20085867
What muslim values do you consider to be against "tradition"?

>> No.20085876

>>20085871
Pretty much everything about Islam is the opposite of western values at this point and no one in good faith can seriously require a lot of elaboration on thaf

>> No.20085891

>>20085876
Lol, you can't even articulate your own position. You just regurgitate whatever you find remotely convincing online.

>> No.20085898

>>20085831
Apparently the main Western values are sodomy and incondutional support for the state of israel

>> No.20085902

>>20085876
>Western values = Feminism and zionism
lol

>> No.20085914

>>20085871
Polygamy, iconoclasm, teetotalism.

>> No.20085915

>>20085891
Scruton and Milbank are not just online slop, they are serious thinkers

>> No.20085922

>>20085898
There literally wouldn't be a West without Israel, idiot.

>> No.20085923

>>20085915
But you apparently haven't even understood them enough to summarise their position on the issue when asked.

>> No.20085974

>>20085923
Western values are fluid, dialectical. They strive to meet human needs. Islam is strict, permanent and fixed in its values

>> No.20086053

Anyone who believes a that 19th century orientalism is in anyway traditional is an idiot.

>> No.20086065

>>20085831
>heteronomous art good
>autonomous art bad
Fucking genius, I fucking love techne

>> No.20086464

bump lol

>> No.20086476

>>20085831
Islam is more trad than modern 'western values'

>> No.20086486

>>20085922
The Brits created Israel, retard.

>> No.20086510

>>20085831
Western chauvinism is dead, the new trend is to be a Sinophile/Russophile/Persophile rooting for Confucian values/Orthodoxy/Islam to defeat the decadent liberal west.

>> No.20087263

>>20085974
>>20085915
You are pretending to be retarded. Why?

>> No.20087857

>>20086486
>oh yeah the bri'ish just invented thousands of years of history and culture
Fuck off.

>> No.20087866

>>20086510
Maybe not defeat, but certainly to expose our weaknesses and to reopen the discussion on how we can better structure our societies.

>> No.20087872

>>20086476
In the islamic sense sure, but not the western sense, these are 2 completely different traditions. Acting like theres some universal traditionalism beyond a few basic principles of normal healthy human behavior is nonsense

>> No.20088828

>>20085831
European values don't need to be protected from Islam, but from Atlantis (i.e the jews, anglos, and americans)