/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.19004570]

Is it weird that this made me wish I could've fought in the trenches?

[Anonymous No.19004600]

>>19004570
Yes. Why the fuck would you want any part of that. Junger wasn't exactly stoked to be a part of that nightmare, however, he did what was required.

[Anonymous No.19004609]

>>19004600
now contrast this with the italian interventionists in ww1 that were stoked to join in on the action.

i think it depends on how you are built.

[Anonymous No.19004612]

>>19004570
No OP it is a masculine idea to wish to die for your fatherland or god ignore this retard, all modern militaries are based on the concept of sacrificing the self to protect others, which is a brave and good thing. Every man has aspirations dormant in their unconscious to be like Junger. Junger did enjoy his time in war.
>>19004600

[Anonymous No.19004673]

>>19004570
You need to get the mystery grove original translation

[Anonymous No.19004687]

>>19004612
dying for your fatherland is cringe as fuck bro

[Anonymous No.19004688]

>junger fag shilling his blog again

[Anonymous No.19004690]

>>19004673
Are you talking about the original super bloodthirsty and nationalistic version that was basically unedited exercpt's of Ernst's diary? Link?

[Anonymous No.19004695]

>>19004690
>original super bloodthirsty and nationalistic version
is this real?

[Anonymous No.19004701]

>>19004687
Its actually the most based thing imaginable if you die heroically.

[Anonymous No.19004709]

>>19004695
No there's not much difference. Just a twitter grifter shilling his poorly edited and translated book.

[Anonymous No.19004711]

>>19004695
Yeah, I was reading around online for what transaltion I should get and apparently Junger's first draft was like that, but I didn't see that there was an English translation of it.

[Anonymous No.19004717]

>>19004709
i have never read junger, knowing his adventures with hoffman and how he took war seriously it sounded out of character
>>19004711
IDK dood

[Anonymous No.19004722]

>>19004709
I support a friendly shitpoaster more than penguin. But yes, the difference in translations isn't significant enough to force a re read.

[Anonymous No.19004724]

>>19004701
99.9% of people in the trenches died needlessly and horrifically

[Anonymous No.19004728]

>>19004570
You go ahead anon. You go fight for my safety, security and comfort.

[Anonymous No.19004735]

>>19004717
I mean I haven't read the first draft itself obviously because I can't read German, but thats what I read. It should be noted that Junger rewrote Storm of Steel tons of times throughout his life, so it would obviously sound a lot more nuanced then his literal diary entry while the actual events were going on. Anyway Junger did take war seriously but one of the great enjoyments I got out of his writing is WW1 wasn't super depressing for him. Sure at times it was, but he draws excitement and even joy from war along with all the negatives.

[Anonymous No.19004746]

>>19004724
The only reason you think that is unheroic is because you have not a manly bone in your body

[Anonymous No.19004753]

>>19004735
i will read him one day, i have so much on my plate.

[Anonymous No.19004759]

>>19004746
hahahahahahah says you pussy larping about war on this board

[Anonymous No.19004767]

>>19004746
Go ahead and heroically get blown to bits and have an empty coffin lowered into your grave then, anon. Why are you posting about the imaginary virtues of dying in war on the internet from the warmth and comfort of your home?

[Anonymous No.19004772]

>>19004759
>>19004767
but they did it!?!?!?!?>>19004609

[Anonymous No.19004774]

>>19004735
The original translation in English is not the original in German. That one was also heavily edited from the original diaries.

[Anonymous No.19004820]

>>19004759
>>19004767
I live in a barracks, I don’t think ZOG has the right ideals, but dying for an ideal is the height of artistic expression. I apologize if I made you insecure about the fact that you can’t do a pushup. Become an artilleryman in the next world war if your pussy. I choose not to.

[Anonymous No.19004849]

>>19004570
It's not weird - truly imagining how horrible the entire experience must have been in every sensory and psychological degree would take more effort than imagining a sanitized, glorified, idealized version.

[Anonymous No.19004874]

>>19004820
sad larp bro

[Anonymous No.19004887]

>>19004874
You realize as long as you don’t have a debilitating condition like aids or obesity(you are probably a fat faggot), that anybody even man or woman can become infantry for a 40k enlistment bonus. It’s really not that uncommon for somebody to actually do something with their life instead of being a neet faggot.

[Anonymous No.19004948]

>>19004774
Thats what I'm saying.

[Anonymous No.19005315]

>>19004887
Infantry are basically POGs these days lol

[Anonymous No.19005356]

>>19005315
Damn that’s crazy, do you want to know how I know you are a POG?

[Anonymous No.19005360]

Is it weird that it made me hate the French?

[Anonymous No.19005404]

>>19005360
No. Fuck the French.

[Anonymous No.19005647]

>traitor hates war
No thanks.

[Anonymous No.19006088]

No, but his ultimate conclusions were the increasing loss of heroism in the world wars, and presumably subsequent wars. He found the world wars disappointing. I suspect he’d find contemporary wars downright depressing.

[Anonymous No.19006200]

Finally got around to reading this while my power was out for a few days. I really enjoyed the different take on war. Junger wasn't some wishy-washy pacifist, nor did he glorify it like I expected. He was simply matter of fact in all the triumphs, horrors, and realities of his experience.

The most profound part, I found, was when he talked about being utterly disgusted upon seeing a driver split his thumb open cranking the engine. That is, our reactions to violence/injury/death are very relative to the conditions and environment.

On a different note, I'm surprised he survived the war based on his adventures. There was always a little part in the back of my head doubting some of his claims, but I suppose we'll never know how much was fantasy vs. fact.

Anyways, thanks for reading my blog. :^)

See you in Hanover, /lit/.

[Anonymous No.19006218]

>>19004570
if you long for trench warfare you're probably a retard

[Anonymous No.19006223]

>>19004746
Did you even read SoS? He's constantly relating how some friend dies suddenly, unexpectedly, and in some strange and unlucky circumstances. I got the impression that EJ missed a lot of his comrades and was simply able to cope with their loss because to be killed in battle/war is cathartic and closure in itself.

[Anonymous No.19006226]

Posting this again since it is important to consider revisions from the author's perspective:

"I recently received a statement, which says that The Storms of Steel, even though it first carne out in 1920, has been enjoying a lasting interest for over sixty years; and I believe that this is because I relate nothing but facts. I offer no opinion or ideology, I merely recount how the ordinary soldier lived through that war, which was the final war."

So in his own words, editing Storm of Steel was not a political decision, it was to remove any of the political excess, to purify it as a book of war - the importance of which is increased because it is the Last War.

[Anonymous No.19006247]

>>19006226
Exactly, that's what so refreshing about it. All Quiet and others are so whiny. So concerned with showing the political nature. So preoccupied with saying, forgive me here, "war is le bad."

Storm of Steel is simply the personal account of a very skilled and lucky soldier. A man that wasn't afraid to admit he had fun at times and that it was terribly sad and depressing to nearly lose your brother.

[Anonymous No.19006298]

>>19004774
The editions are 1920, 1922, 1924, 1934, 1935, 1961, and 1978.
I think this is the first edit removed from the 1924 (1929 in English). The 1929 edition in English is itself heavily edited, so you're not getting his original thoughts with that edition either. It is the most political and perhaps least artistic.
The removed part in brackets:

"In any case, however, it was our fate all through the war to start at any sudden and unexpected sound. Whether a train clattered by, or a book fell on the floor, or a cry rang out at night, the heart always stood still for a moment in the belief that some great and unknown danger threatened. It was a sign of living four years under the shadow of death. The effect upon the dark regions that lie beneath the consciousness was so deep that at the least interruption of the usual course Death started up with warning hand, or as he does in those clocks where he appears above the dial at every hour with sand-glass and scythe. (It was a sensation over which habit could not prevail, since the instinct of self-preservation remains always the same. The notion that a soldier becomes hardier and bolder as war proceeds is mistaken. What he gains in the science and art of attacking his enemy he loses in strength of nerve. The only dam against this loss is a sense of honour so resolute that few attain to it. For this reason I consider that troops composed of boys of twenty, under experienced leadership, are the most formidable.)"

[Anonymous No.19006306]

https://allpoetry.com/How-Rifleman-Brown-came-to-Valhalla

[Anonymous No.19006332]

>>19006298
This is perhaps an interesting addition, but one has to consider where the additions lead (one can look to Herodotus as the master of additions). This commentary is largely strategic and political, and possibly even wrong. It not only detracts from a pure look at war, but may be seen as an excess given that Jünger has separate writings on order, authority, and war strategy and techniques.
Copse 125 provides this and the tone is not so jarring, it is even appropriate.

[Anonymous No.19006363]

>>19006332
What rarely gets discussed is that the later edition does not only remove parts, it has its own additions. So if you really want to compare them you have to weigh what is both missing and added.
This is in the 1964 (Penguin, at least I think that is the German edition it is based on) but not the 1929:

"Even though the shelling could recommence at any moment, I felt irresistibly drawn to the site of the calamity. Next to the spot where the shell had hit dangled a little sign where some wag had written 'Ordnance this way'. The castle was clearly felt to be a dangerous place. The road was reddened with pools of gore; riddled helmets and sword belts lay around. The heavy iron chateau gate was shredded and pierced by the impact of the explosive; the kerbstone was spattered with blood. My eyes were drawn to the place as if by a magnet; and a profound change went through me."

[Anonymous No.19006380]

>>19006088
That's ironic since the final major battle of the final world war (the battle of Berlin) was the most heroic moment in modern history, even if unsuccessful.

[Anonymous No.19006391]

>>19006380
>even if unsuccessful
but the red army won

[Anonymous No.19006417]

>>19006200
>On a different note, I'm surprised he survived the war based on his adventures. There was always a little part in the back of my head doubting some of his claims, but I suppose we'll never know how much was fantasy vs. fact.
There's something weird about war and who lives vs who dies.
My grandfather was awarded multiple silver stars for valor in the Pacific because he would always be the one to run out from cover when the men were pinned down by enemy machine gun fire and make his way to the nest.
He was a heavy alcoholic after the war and drank himself to death.
I always wondered if his "valor" was really just because he didn't mind if he ended up being the one who died.
I feel like there's some kind of cosmic irony at play where the people who are like that end up being the ones who live.

[Anonymous No.19006427]

new and old translations
>inb4 >>>>translations
yeah

[Anonymous No.19006434]

>>19006363
This I think was added in the 1934 edition, so with the 1929 you are really missing three or four edits. Some of which are only a few words or sentences.
1964:

The stream poured over the weir of a destroyed mill ringed by brooding trees. (For months, its water had been laving the black parchment faces of the dead of a French colonial regiment.) An eerie place, especially at night, when the moon cast moving shadows through breaks in the clouds, and the sounds of the rushes and the murmuring water were joined by others less easily accounted for."

This is a very nice and helpful addition.

[Anonymous No.19006435]

>>19006427
hallmark tier

[Anonymous No.19006455]

>>19006434
This also proves claims of greater violence in the earlier edition wrong.

[Anonymous No.19006494]

One of the larger additions for the later versions, and not in the 1929. The brackets indicate original journal sentence:

"I dreamed of iron balls trundling up and down my limbs. (Nights here were not for sleeping either, but were used to deepen the many communication trenches.) In total darkness, if the French flares happened not to be lighting us up, we had to stick to the heels of the man in front with somnambulistic confidence if we weren't to lose ourselves altogether, and spent hours traipsing around the labyrinthine network of trenches. At least the digging was easy; only a thin layer of clay or loam covered the mighty thicknesses of chalk, which was easily cut by the pickaxe. Sometimes green sparks would fly up if the steel had encountered one of the fist-sized iron pyrite crystals that were sprinkled throughout the soft stone. These consisted of many little cubes clustered together, and, cut open, had a streakily goldy gleam."

[Anonymous No.19006512]

>>19006494
Another:

"There were liberal helpings of a pale-red brandy, which had a strong taste of methylated spirits, but wasn't to be sneezed at in the cold wet weather. We drank it out of our mess-tin lids. The tobacco was similarly strong, and also plentiful. The image of the soldier that remains with me from those days is that of the sentry with his spiked, grey helmet, fists buried in the pockets of his greatcoat, standing behind the shooting-slit, blowing pipe smoke over his rifle butt."

[Anonymous No.19006524]

>>19004612
go die then

[Anonymous No.19006533]

>>19006512
"... Worse still was the boredom, which is still more enervating for the soldier than the proximity of death.
We pinned our hopes on an attack; but we had picked a most unfavourable moment to join the front, because all movement had stopped. Even small-scale tactical initiatives were laid to rest as the trenches became more elaborate and the defensive fire more destructive. Only a few weeks before our arrival, a single company had risked one of these localized attacks over a few hundred yards, following a perfunctory artillery barrage. The French had simply picked them off, as on a shooting-range, and only a handful had got as far as the enemy wire; the few survivors spent the rest of the day lying low, till darkness fell and they were able to crawl back to their starting-point."

[Anonymous No.19006535]

What sort of German level is required to read this? I gave it a try but still kinda frustrates my current level. Considering age and style.

[Anonymous No.19006548]

https://youtu.be/EShCRjbGRFM

[Anonymous No.19006565]

A much more important strategic consideration:

"The ever-deeper trenches might protect against the odd head wound, but it also made for a defensive and security-conscious type of thinking, which we were loath to abandon later. Moreover, the demands made by the maintenance of the trenches were becoming ever-more exorbitant. The most disagreeable contingency was the onset of thaw, which caused the frost-cracked chalk facings of the trenches to disintegrate into a sludgy mess."

[Anonymous No.19006581]

>>19006565
From the 1935 (the paragraph):

"The officer in command of the French artillery was, apparently, also the owner of that hunting lodge.
The artillery was still in an advanced position, just behind the front; there was even a field gun incorporated in the front line, rather inadequately concealed under tarpaulins. During a conversation I was having with the 'powderheads', I was surprised to notice that the whistling of rifle bullets bothered them much more than the crumps. That's just the way it is; the hazards of one's own line of service always seem more rational and less terrifying."

[Anonymous No.19006593]

>>19006581
These are not all the changes from the first chapter, however that single short paragraph is the only part of the 1929 edition removed from later versions.

[Anonymous No.19006613]

>>19006380
What was heroic about it?

[Anonymous No.19006710]

>>19006533
>We pinned our hopes on an attack; but we had picked a most unfavourable moment to join the front, because all movement had stopped.
reminds me of a www1 documentary titled "they shall not grow old (2018)", describing the letters filled with the initial anticipation and adventurousness of the british soldiers, and gradually becoming more morose as they learned the true horrors of war. good stuff.

[Anonymous No.19006784]

>>19006710
It is a fairly common observation but very important. A Canadian soldier remarked how they were more concerned with a poor supper than death, and that they would go raiding to alleviate the boredom.
In the 1929 version there is a more political discussion of similar themes, the shock of isolation and violence, but it is also more jarring, and does not reveal the experience as well as the single line above on the bodies washing away in the water.
And such discussions are already in War as an Inner Experience, which I think was written before 1924/

[Anonymous No.19006843]

>>19006784
what's your opinion on the original vs. newer translations, prose-wise, like in >>19006427 ?

[Anonymous No.19006871]

>>19004570
No. You are of the warrior kind, as the Jünger himself

[Anonymous No.19006899]

>>19004570
No one would turn a young man's noble desire to defend his people to evil purposes, cackling maniacally from the sidelines while his host organism sacrifices itself for him.

[Anonymous No.19007062]

the impression is confirmed by "copse 125" where he became more outspoken about enjoying certain moments

[Anonymous No.19007322]

1929 shills BTFO

[Anonymous No.19007406]

So which one is the go-to edition? I'm leaning towards penguin because it's easy to get

[Anonymous No.19007436]

>>19004746
now this is pathetic

[Anonymous No.19007444]

>>19006899
yeah like how germany propagated the stab in the back meme

[Anonymous No.19007564]

>>19004570
i have this penguin classics edition, but haven't read it yet... is there another translation i should get instead?

[Anonymous No.19007668]

>>19004570
The entire book is about the death of the value of warfare in the face of industrialism. But no, we all felt that storm trooper itch at times anon

[Anonymous No.19008031]

>>19004709
>Just a twitter grifter shilling his poorly edited and translated book
True, editing was horrible and translation felt poor but I haven't compared it with the penguin edition.

[Anonymous No.19008084]

>>19004570
Suffering imparts a feeling of purpose. If you were there, you probably would feel differently—you'd also very probably have died, statistically speaking. My grandfather was in WWII. I don't know that watching whole loads of his friends get blasted out of the sky did anything good for his psyche.

[Anonymous No.19008128]

>>19007564
Just read it.

[Anonymous No.19008763]

>>19008084
I don't think you were that likely to die.

[Anonymous No.19008831]

>>19006524
I would gladly if there were a worthy country to die for. If I died for my country now, I'd be dying for neoliberalism, consumerist capitalism, buttsecks and trans kids.

[Anonymous No.19008839]

>>19004570
I went to war and killed 3-5 people just for the experience. Now I get free college.

[Anonymous No.19008848]

>>19004570
I feel the reason why Junger doesn't go into much about the conditions of the daily trenches is because German trenches tended to be nicer than the British or French.

[Anonymous No.19008863]

>>19006226

It really is a clinical daily record or journal of a soldier on the western front. A lot of the anti-war sentiment came after the war, as people had time to reflect. Can't really do that in the moment.

[Anonymous No.19009007]

>>19007444
the german press was self-loathing and defeatist, the anglo press was gallant. the germans were defeated on the home front.

[Anonymous No.19009584]

>>19006843
Unfortunately it's a bit rough. The first sentence of the 1929 version is pretty bad. And there are a few other awkward things in it.
Otherwise, some of the rough aspect I quite like, there is the stripped-down quality of the common soldier, which is more like a journal. And you could say there is more force to it in some areas. The 1964 version/translation can be a bit more retrospective, lost.in memory, which people who want the minimalism of a journal may not like.

There is something remaining of romanticism in the 1964, and Jünger's later work in general, but I think it works here. It is a great quality which separates him from the modernists. The plea "from another world" foreshadows the great extent of the war to come, the end of dominion.

The 1929 is nice in its own way, it is simpler, and one may think of what is beyond the 'forcing down of rage.' But it is also a bit unnatural.

I get why there is interest in the 1929 version given our situation. And Creighton is not a bad translator. I don't know if this was his first translation, but Copse seems to be much better. Perhaps it was an editing issue.

[Anonymous No.19009629]

>>19009584
And I'm not exactly sure on this, but I think some of the later additions are also from his journals, so to say something like 'his thoughts become lost in memory' may not be quite right. Jünger was an aesthete so these reflections are not out of place.
The combined 1800s sentimentality with the triumph of mechanised warfare is what makes his writing unique.

[Anonymous No.19009661]

>>19004746
is this what it looks like when your mouth writes a check your ass can't cash?

[Anonymous No.19009668]

>>19004570
Listen to this on repeat at full volume for 24 hours straight and see if the feeling stays
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we72zI7iOjk

[Anonymous No.19009737]

>>19004695
Junger rewrote the book at leat 4 times.

The oldest English translation is based on the 2nd German version, OP's pic comes from new translation of the 1st version and Penguin version is based on the last edit from the 1960's. In between there was a 1934 version I believe which was the most commonly available version until after the 1960's ed proliferated.

I've read the 2nd version, which is the one Mystery Groove republished(what's his alt twitter handle again?) As well as the Penguin one, but from what I understand the 1st version is very much a modified war diary, 2nd de-diarifies it so it has much less blocks which go like:
48 Braaaaptember: lt. Scheisse got hit with shrapnel blah blah blah
1st of Cunnyarch: we've moved to a quarter blah blah blah
Although not completely, retains a lot of the gory descriptions etc. and I think also increases the amount of the chivalric moralism that Junger picked up along the road. Later editions de-diarify it even further, but also remove gore and occasional slur here and there, adding more descriptions of the landscape etc.

[Anonymous No.19009772]

>>19009737
It also has to be noted that the translator of the penguin version claims that the 1st English translation is pretty poor, but obviously he's not offering better translation of the same, but rather, good translation of a different version of the same work.

I have no idea about the edition in OP pic I just remember seeing it on amazon, so if it's indeed a new translation of the 1920 German ed. it'll be another example of - it's perhaps a good translation, but it's effectively a different book.


Honestly unless you want to be Junger scholar for some reason you can pick up either and it'll be fine

[Anonymous No.19009858]

>>19004695
It's marketing.

[Anonymous No.19010467]

>>19009772
They're not that different.

[Anonymous No.19010978]

>>19004746
Afghanistan may have won the battle but Israel wins every war.

[Anonymous No.19011491]

>>19009668
Will do.

[Anonymous No.19012897]

Bump

[Anonymous No.19013728]

>>19009007
shouldn't've lost on the war front then ;)

[Anonymous No.19013754]

>>19008763
Around 20% death rate for officers, 15% for enlisted across the board is extremely high. Those odds could go up dramatically depending on your job, which front, timing. It was one of the deadliest wars in human history. One million soldiers were wounded or killed just at the Battle of the Somme.

[Anonymous No.19014210]

>>19004701
Not him but dying for your homeland is a noble act but only when your homeland is worth dying for. Thus there have been no noble deaths from war in recent past just brave men who have been manipulated into believing it so.

[Anonymous No.19014357]

>>19014210
Wrong. Freedom isn't free.

[Anonymous No.19014381]

>>19014210
You will always be able to find a reason not to fight. The idyllic state worth fighting for entirely in any moral sense has never existed, will never exist.

[Anonymous No.19015792]

>>19013754
That's not that bad compared to other wars.

[Anonymous No.19015819]

>>19004570
Why did you post the bluepilled version? And no it isn´t because he explains the transcendence of war in the original.

[Anonymous No.19015825]

>>19014210

[Anonymous No.19015842]

>>19004874
beta, hope a world war happens so some shitty chink drops a missile on you.

[Anonymous No.19015910]

>>19015792
That's the death rate. There were many more that had life altering wounds.

[Anonymous No.19015988]

>>19008763
>>19008763
7-10% general chance of dying
t. quincy wright - a study of war (published before ww2)

i remember seeing somewhere else that 1/3 of french male population born between 1785-1795 didnt survive until end of napoleonic wars.

[Anonymous No.19015992]

>>19004612
>masculine idea
letting yourself be used by something "greater" than yourself is a very feminine trait though
like how a woman gets pleasure by being used by a greater man

[Anonymous No.19016020]

>>19004570
>can't even sit in the proximity of a black man >wants anyone to believe that he wants to be stuck in a damp hole that reeks of shit and corpses knowing that he can get blown to pieces at any given moment
umm sweaty? your manly white man fantasies are getting out of control

[Anonymous No.19016465]

>>19016020
What?

[Anonymous No.19016674]

>>19004570
Better to live or die there than in a modern war. Still worse than any war preceding it, technology ruined warfare.

[Anonymous No.19016912]

>>19006226
>>19006298
>>19006363
>>19006434
>>19006494
>>19006512
>>19006533
>>19006565
>>19006581
Would be nice to have all these collected together.

[Anonymous No.19017126]

>>19004673
>t. anti-jungerfagfag

[Anonymous No.19017382]

>>19017126
I'm in this picture and I don't like it. Although I have been working out for a few months and ceased smoking weed altogether over a year ago. I feel better for my improvements but it's not easy and an increasingly small part of myself just wants to be a fat pig in a bed masturbating and receiving dopamine via a pump while I play games.

[Anonymous No.19017699]

>>19004728
I didn't know women actually posted on here

[Anonymous No.19017845]

>>19017699

[Anonymous No.19017892]

>>19017845
>That ring
Shucks...

[Anonymous No.19017941]

>>19017892
What's the ring?

[Anonymous No.19017948]

>>19017941
She's either married or has terrible taste.

[Anonymous No.19018378]

"Let thousands, nay millions, die; what meaning have these rivers of blood in comparison with a state, into which flow all the disquiet and longing of the German being!"
Uh bros?

[Anonymous No.19018804]

>>19017948
>She
We can tell their taste is terrible by the book

[Anonymous No.19018846]

>>19018804
Ok reddit.

[Anonymous No.19018863]

>>19004612
sounds like Confessions of a Mask
I agree with this

[Anonymous No.19018896]

>>19018846
No, pol, not from a different website.
Stormfront faggot

[Anonymous No.19019033]

ive been interested in reading the various versions and making my own comparisons. i only have 2 atm; picrel. what other versions would compliment that interest without much repetition?

i went to an international school in germany. but id need to brush up on my vocab.

[Anonymous No.19019601]

>>19004701
LOL. Then get on with it faggot

[Anonymous No.19019719]

>>19006247
>It's refreshing to leave out one of the most crucial parts to a war: the political background

>it's refreshing to read an intellectually lazy take
>weh weh weh others are so whiny

Ironic.

[Anonymous No.19019740]

>>19015992
You have no concept of self sacrifice because you’ve never faced adversity in your mothers house or university dorm room. Once you move out you will understand through real adversity what it means to live a feminine lifestyle, the current one you are prescient in. Imagining comfort as masculinity is a cope and you know this yourself already. You don’t need my abuse over an imageboard to realize this. Just suck it up and realize comfort is boring and only something you ever want after decades of adversity and true comfort is only something you feel AFTER hardship. Just do something with your life anon

[Anonymous No.19019756]

>>19006223
My point was that dying unexpectedly or awkwardly in war was heroic. I have read Storm of Steel, and if you think Jünger is anti war in any sense after his experiences you are gravely misinformed.

[Anonymous No.19019764]

>>19007436
>>19009661
Am an infantryman, people I know who have been on actual combat deployments and seen people die have expressed similar sentiments. I’m sorry neither of us know what war is like, but to act like it’s not a positive experience in the expression of masculinity is not something I’ve seen ever talked about among the people who I know who’ve seen people die.

[Anonymous No.19019894]

sounds like u got filtered pretty hard OP

[Anonymous No.19020389]

>>19004570
>this made me wish I could've fought in the trenches
pic related will take care of that

[Anonymous No.19021078]

>>19020389
Is it good?

[Anonymous No.19021112]

>>19004570
No. Most children who never experienced war want to experience it. That's precisely why there is an age cap in the military.

[Anonymous No.19021258]

>>19021078
I really enjoyed it
it's a detailed account by a soldier and father who was 35 when the war started and fought through most of the war. it details the way french officers viewed their men as less than beasts of burden. several battles are described, where most of the men he knew from his hometown (Peyriac-Minervois) die. especially early in the war when the officers are convinced that so long as the men have enough élan they can charge entrenched machine gun nests(!)
there's one funny scene in the book where an officer has his revolver drawn looking for some poor artilleryman to shoot, where the author points his lebel rifle at the officer and goes "now what?"

The Great War did a biography on him: https://invidious.snopyta.org/watch?v=40uKWoS0TDo
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Barthas

[Anonymous No.19021279]

>>19004570
>Is it weird that this made me wish I could've fought in the trenches?
It made me feel grateful that I did not fight in the trenches. Imagine, you're hungry and wet all the time. Friends are always dying, gg no counterplay. You're killing people who should be your bros.

There is that part in the book when a shell explodes right in the middle of his trench and kills 60 of his fellow Germans instantly and wounds another 90. Just brutal carnage.

I also like the scene when he's standing in front of a window sipping coffee one morning on a rest day when a bomb explodes outside and blasts through the window and sends him flying backwards.

[Anonymous No.19021295]

>>19021078
I see some guy has recorded a reading of the book, with illustrations: https://invidious.snopyta.org/channel/UCnjIlz-HgN8ZNw1OZ2uXveQ

[Anonymous No.19022520]

>>19021258
Sounds good.

[Anonymous No.19023414]

>>19021279
It makes you into a man.

[Anonymous No.19023606]

>>19004612
this. people will squee, but its actually a higher form of actualization. Its only in putting your life on the line does one know their core stuff. an espace from mediocrety. In a 9-5 you never really get that. Not even pro-fascist or anything, but its true. People are against it mostly from constructed ideology.
Lindy is often a retard, but I think he was on point here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DytBlcScGNk
>>19004570

[Anonymous No.19025317]

>>19023606
It kills men.

[Anonymous No.19025324]

>>19025317
ya. it does tend to do that. whats your point?

[Anonymous No.19025414]

>>19017126
fed meme
>this is you if you don’t out yourself as an “extremist”!!!!!

[Anonymous No.19025420]

>>19023414
war breaks more men than it makes. and i’m not talking about the ones who die

[Anonymous No.19025426]

>>19004600
Junger volunteered to join the war effort when he didn't have to and took on jobs he didn't have to do while in it.

[Anonymous No.19025539]

>>19020389
>>19021258
can't speak for the UK never been, but if you travel in France to many of the small villages you'll see war monuments and memorials and the names of the WWI dead usually always out number any other war.

[Anonymous No.19026006]

>>19017126
"da joos" is so fucking cringy it has to be some boomer/fed psyop combo

[Anonymous No.19026580]

>>19026006
Yeah how did it ever start?

[Anonymous No.19026739]

>>19016674
Jünger says that it was nothing compared to the Thirty Years' War.
And it may be more accurate to say that was the last war. It took 300 years to realise it. Even in the naming of these wars we see something other than the world wars, and which gets to the heart of it.

[Anonymous No.19026816]

>>19021258
One is written by a german officer and the other by a french one, so you can still say you wish to be a german.

[Anonymous No.19026819]

>>19023606
>>19004612
My arguments here tend to fall on deaf ears, but it's still worth repeating. War as individuality, masculinity, actualization, and becoming is part of democratic warfare and thought. Noble and aristocratic wars are generally of very short duration, as Tocqueville and others have pointed out.
The war which endures, or even the repeated cropping up, suggests a weakening or even sickness of the state - a falling away from law. At the same time there is very little in the becoming or aspirations of such men to die for the fatherland, or to achieve masculinity. What else does a Nestor have to achieve or prove hinself? At the highest there is only law, and the noble spirit wishes for swift victory and return to peace.
Jünger also discusses the important difference of the motherland.

The man who wishes for death - and this is ironic since it is linked to the Nietzschean striving against death - is a sign of some catastrophe in the spirit. He is a figure like Ajax, only looking forward into the abyss, rather than against what is behind him.

[Anonymous No.19026829]

>>19026819
And FG Jünger on duration:

"In those days warfare powered war in a way that seems modest to us today, and the means were provided by a peasant and artisan economy. For those who look back, the Napoleonic wars still have something idyllic about them because they do not have the strictly working-class nature of world wars. This is because they still bring in only paltry wages. Out of them again arises the nobility of the sword, which, however, compared to the old nobility, has a short duration."

[Anonymous No.19026847]

>>19026829
This is the old theme of return to the land and forests. Where wars endure, man and his army become lost to strange and mystical lands, the territory itself becomes hostile. As in Anabasis and all the great tales of warfare at the edges, warfare gives way to survival, the theological adventure of return.
What is strange in the seeking out of adventure in democratic ages is that all sense of war has been lost, even as it has become a permanent condition. Man does not even realise that he is in flight, and on the barest course of survival.

[Anonymous No.19026863]

>>19026819
And the modesty of warfare suggests the ease of transition between war and peace, the likeness of politics and its continuation by other means. Where the necessity endures there are failings, weaknesses, and finally in crisis there is permanent war and an inability to secure peace.
Wealth can be all too quickly counted up in war, and where there is no return, where the homeland is destroyed through what is spent up in the outward incursions, there can be no Ajax or Odysseus figures. Only the rough mercantile characters awaiting death remain, as in the Thirty Years War.

[Anonymous No.19026889]

Seems like the only people who extole war are those who've never actually been in it.

[Anonymous No.19027380]

>>19025539
no doubt
french farmers still dig up unexploded ordinance from WW1, and large areas are still uninhabitable due to war chemical contamination

>>19026816
do corporals count as officers? either way he loses his stripes at one point for refusing orders out of care for his men. his men in turn tell him, as a family man, to stay back from the worst of the fighting
at one point he's awarded a medal for running a message across a field under artillery fire, and this pisses him off because it'd either be him or some other poor piolu that had to do it

[Anonymous No.19027726]

>>19006427
where can I buy the good one?

[Anonymous No.19027811]

>>19026889
This. Everyone is brave and courageous in their mind

[Anonymous No.19027813]

>>19027726
Amazon should have it or any store really. It's penguin.

[Anonymous No.19027816]

>>19025426
Because he was a leader, he loved his men, and he felt the tie of brotherhood. Too many people read this but not Glass Bees, Marble Cliffs, and Eumswil

[Anonymous No.19027921]

>>19027380
corporals are not officers they are barely even ncos

[Anonymous No.19028011]

>>19026819

[Anonymous No.19028015]

>>19004612
>t.ZOGbot

[Anonymous No.19028185]

>>19017699
>>19017845
I think she posts here. There was one thread the autists sperged out over a girl reading Jünger.

[Anonymous No.19028413]

>>19026006
It's just making fun of you for being an edgy hypocrite.

[Anonymous No.19028461]

>>19004570
yes, however it is not weird to desire the sense of greater purpose, sacrifice, or brotherhood that comes along with serving in war. Z

get some friends.

[Anonymous No.19028867]

>>19019033
There's the newest one from Kasey somebody.

[Anonymous No.19029016]

>>19004570
Nope, made me too.

[Anonymous No.19029054]

>>19020389
The French by far had it the worst in the trenches.
This was a good read

[Anonymous No.19029070]

[Anonymous No.19029449]

Has anyone read On the Marble Cliffs?

[Anonymous No.19030188]

[Anonymous No.19030360]

What do we do with our desire to experience war in the modern era?

[Anonymous No.19030375]

>>19029449
yeah, too allegoric4me.

[Anonymous No.19030432]

>>19008831
isn't that convenient for your livelihood

[Anonymous No.19030879]

>>19030360
Lift weights.

[Anonymous No.19031017]

FYI for anyone interested in the Mystery Grove print, I have a copy of it. It's cool to have the "original 1929 translation", whatever that means, and the quality of the book and paper itself is passable for a softcover, but I must warn everyone that there are shitloads of typos. It's normal for there to be maybe 2 or 3 typos in any given book that goes to print because shit happens and no one is perfect, but there are probably an average of 3 typos per chapter in this edition. It's embarrassing and it's clear that the "publishers" didn't even read it all the way through before printing it and shipping it. I don't regret the purchase but if you can find a different way to get the 1929 edition for cheap, I would recommend you do that.

[Anonymous No.19031821]

>>19031017
Just get the Penguin. The 1929 loses too much.

[Anonymous No.19031833]

>>19031017
Are there other books of this quality??

[Anonymous No.19031839]

>>19031833
>>19031821
Their*

[Anonymous No.19032723]

>>19028015
America rules.

[Anonymous No.19032919]

>>19004746
>grrr tough guy!!
larp

[Anonymous No.19033847]

>>19032919
Your weak

[Anonymous No.19034771]

>>19029070
Is the war finally over?

[Anonymous No.19035106]

>>19004820
>I live in a barracks
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Anonymous No.19035134]

>>19023414
t. never been in a street fight let alone a war

[Anonymous No.19035210]

>>19019756
To think he was "pro war" in any sense willingly ignores the great amount he wrote about the barbarism of technology a d industrialism and the fact he choose to live the rest of his life quietly with his close friends and family collecting bugs and writing contemplative works

[Anonymous No.19035227]

>>19023414
I love having my legs blown off just to be abandoned and ignored by my government for the rest of my life while they pay lip service to the notion of sacrifice

[Anonymous No.19035249]

>>19029449
Yes, it's a introduction to his inner emigration. I imagine it didn't endear him to some when the protagonist sails away from the bloodthirsty freaks burning down their own town

[Anonymous No.19035743]

>>19030360
It's a good question, but one with a difficult and likely unsatisfactory answer. Even something like the forest rebel or partisan becomes difficult in the west,either because of the general trajectory or due to subversion. This was made clear in the Ukraine, any means will be used to subvert and control a movement. It is about controlling territory and positions, being ahead of the game, and anything is expendable within that.
In another sense, 9/11 brought to the surface what Jünger referred to as the invisible forces of war. The destructive movement of the world is such that positions can be taken passively, or at least technically, which explains the clownish idealism and civil war character which plays out entirely through words. Rather than ideas and law people mobilise behind data as a type of earth force.
This is of course very unsatisfying for anyone who wants a war. And women can easily take part in these positions of social technology. They may even be better at it where subversion is the main aim.

[Anonymous No.19035748]

>>19035743
Jünger's predictions for war character in the 21st century

""Regarding the fate of man in particular, as a state-forming creature, a political being, various prognoses are possible, including the following:

1. there will be great destruction. The machine is smashed or comes to a standstill, be it by wars or in other ways. There is a lack of means, perhaps even a tendency to rebuild it. The veil of Maja has moved. Strongly reduced populations with new ideas and a different economy appear as post-catastrophe beings. They are more powerful, more natural, because the eradication has affected precisely those areas that homo faber settled in its sharpest forms. He has, as it is often repeated in natural history, led himself ad absurdum by hypertrophic armament. This prospect is most improbable.

2) World unity is constituted by treaties, whether by peaceful agreement, under coercion, or by both at the same time. This requires a supreme body. It could be achieved:

a) By rationalization in the form of consolidation: The states renounce parts of their sovereignty. These are dismantled in favor of society, the societas humana. The armies will become police forces, and the major warfare units will order world divisions. Like gold, they are stored in depots without appearing de facto, and guarantee order existentially. Competition is extinguished both in the field of war and in that of economics. Forms and means become perfect, state plans are replaced by earth and cosmic plans.

[Anonymous No.19035756]

>>19035748
b) By a third world war without comprehensive consequences, as mentioned above. A power remains in possession of sovereignty and the appropriate equipment. It gives away parts of it at its own discretion. It would have to remain a state. In World War I, the monarchies were eliminated, in World War II, the nation states were eliminated, and in World War III, one of the continental metropolitan areas would remain intact. The order thus won would be weaker than that achieved by evolution, the risk enormous.

c) Through overexertion. Increased rotation and internal weakening interact in such a way that parts of the machinery wear out or blow up. Pressures, suppression, propaganda, armament at the expense of living standards, threats, panic, unrest, kill one or more partners by cold means and make them drop out of the competition. The big slogans lose traction. The result is a more or less emphatic pénétration pacifique. Basically, the same thing was wanted and formed. The force works from the forward pressure, from the future result. There lies the unity of the process, not in understanding. The wisest ideology is not the best, but that which follows the earth's current most easily, harmonizes with it.

d) By gaining position. Here war, like chess, approaches the pure acts of intelligence. The commander recognizes strategic superiority and draws the consequences, as in certain Renaissance trades. The best positions are tangential, flanking - in principle: falling out of the system. They lie outside the contested object."

[Anonymous No.19035812]

>>19035756
Of course, what this implies is that one would have to abandon the west entirely just to fight, which few are prepared to do (and likely wouldn't be a good idea anyways). What we have instead is half measures, or slow movement out of the cities. White flight which takes on more of a civil or social war character rather than mere economic or technical concerns.
This can be seen as part of the anti-colonialism which Schmitt says is one of the main features of post-WWII order. Only for westerners it is largely a passive and reactive force.
So even though it is not war, some type of preparation and giving this movement an active character would be a positive step for warrior types.

[Anonymous No.19035864]

>>19035812
This is what Schmitt refers to as the "intermediate condition between war and peace" and the "new appropriation of the earth". One can say that the cosmic nomos itself forms a state of exception. For Jünger, we are caught within the interim of the wall of time, which may even begin to form much like the single surviving city after WWIII.
In political terms this can be seen as North Korea's endless stockpile of weapons, China's ghost cities, or the mass of Russian territory which exist outside the borders of the endless cold war.
Does the West have similar territories? The warrior type should be sending reconnaissance there, or at least searching them out.

[Anonymous No.19035902]

>>19035864
Another word on North Korea may be helpful. Where the nuclear weapon is the non plus ultra of military philistinism one must say that without their use the political territory will nonetheless become as destructive. North Korea has amassed great stores of weapons and survived, and similarly the East Europeans which exist in the interim between endless cold war and nuclear armageddon have not had any of the 'prosperous growth we see in western states, or China. Nonetheless, they have a hidden wealth of potential survival. So it would seem that living closest to the stockpiles is best if one cannot find the border limit.
Cities in between have been reduced to ruins, at least where we speak of invisible forces, the nomos. They would have been better off facing nuclear war. This speaks to the metaphysical deatructiveness of our times, the technologocal law.

[Anonymous No.19035973]

>>19035902
"Between peace and war there is nothing in between."
This is precisely why it is better to search out peace today, particularly where the warrior is unable to find his war. Even if we wander into the forests and find a general it is almost certain that he has no papers.
One also has to remember that anti-colonialism is an initiative of the westerners, and that any battles to come can only be won in terms of law and wealth - that is theologically. It is true also that the colonised territories will lose their sovereignty ex nihilo where they are abandoned. And it is unlikely that the hordes can form any political sovereignty within the Western continents.
Where the west becomes nothing more than an immense space, where European law is renounced, war will again find itself. Thus our search for peace should be seen as a last respite before the founding of a new European law.
Questions of territory and race are subordinate to this, and victory even dependent upon it.

[Anonymous No.19036037]

>>19035973
In other words, this means embracing the revolutionary war that is occurring. The opposition to the hordes at the moment occurs from a point of criminality, which only strengthens the interim state in which we live and which caused the collapse of the colonial order. What needs to happen is a clear distinction of enemies rather than criminals, and this occurs on several fronts. It is not only the hordes which are enemies, but those who allowed it to happen.
Perhaps even the territory itself has become hostile, as we see in the old tales of soldiers approaching the limits of war, or the Wild Hunt. Thus the war must be won spiritually first of all, our calling should be to the homeland. Whether as an Odysseus or long forgotten Ajax - the warnof soldiers is long behind us.

[Anonymous No.19036053]

>>19036037
And these comments are simple speculation and theorising based on a situation not of our making. One must be a pacifist today, even if uncertain of the course of justice if a sword is forced into his hand.

[Anonymous No.19036159]

>>19036053
Schmitt also discusses the partisan in relation to the worker and the defeat of Rousseau's solitary walker. The partisan is either used like the cudgel of the imperial states or he becomes lost to the great spaces.
So the warrior today must recognise his defeat, come to terms with his imprisonment before he sees what is to replace the solitary walker.

[Anonymous No.19036415]

>>19036159
Why is this important? because one tends to think of the liberal figure, or Rousseau, as something to be defeated, overturned. But periods of history are much like the Dioscuri, rather than a certain end there is a turning and metamorphosis of worlds - a great moment of judgement which is a reflection of the entire order.
We will have to live part of our time in the heavens, and the other in the underworld, all while trying to find a home. Our criminal status is absolute and certain, but is only from this point that new choices may be made.

Jünger's forest rebel and anarch already caught sight of this divided being, only now they play out within a new time and territory. They will take shape along with new judgements.

[Anonymous No.19036493]

>>19036415
It is also worth remembering how there were minor figures before the soldier worker, forest rebel, and anarch. In the war itself Jünger demonstrated them as the adventurer, daredevil, and observer.
This proves wrong the protests of a geriatric or liberalised figure. No one can resist these forces in any case, least of all the critics.

The Dioscuri will be too mythic, vague, or schizo to most, but nonetheless more concrete examples in history will trace their lineage to the great cattle raiders. Or even the thief of fire.
Where one sees flight another sees the opening of new lines, preparing stockpiles, and planning watchtowers. To know when to drop the sword in favour of wine is one of the great martial questions, as Achilles showed us so powerfully.
One may also say those who only lament have already lost the spiritual battle.

[Anonymous No.19036552]

>>19036493
In simpler terms, one who observes is just as significant as the daredevil or adventurer in warfare - and is perhaps its natural development. One must know where the decisive territory is for a battlefield to be taken, and also see its greater shifts if the war is to be won.
Today this occurs on a planetary scale, so decisions seem to have less immediate impact, yet greater force in the long term. One is thrust into the position of a general or officer almost immediately, which is why it seems so overwhelming.

[Anonymous No.19037055]

1929 translation

[Anonymous No.19037771]

>>19004570
No. The book is probably just romanticizing war, and the result of that is young men want to live a "hero's life" and die in war.

[Anonymous No.19037861]

>>19004820
Based, hope you get to live out your spiritual ideal and die gloriously (preferably after reproducing)

[Anonymous No.19038059]

>>19030360
>What do we do with our desire to experience war in the modern era?
Desire life instead.

[Anonymous No.19038171]

Great thread.

[Anonymous No.19039712]

Bump

[Anonymous No.19039990]

>>19004570
It's not weird or uncommon, just very immature.

[Anonymous No.19040661]

>>19004820
>>19037861
Ernst Jünger is smiling at me, bigots. Can you say the same?

[Anonymous No.19040732]

>>19040661
iron your flags, anons

[Anonymous No.19040769]

>>19030188
Having Junger's name next to a traitor like Stauffenberg is disgusting. I sincerely hope the latter street's name is a coincidence.

[Anonymous No.19040880]

>>19040769
he literally lived in a former forester's hut of the stauffenberg estate there

[Anonymous No.19041098]

>>19030360
>>19035864
A few other thoughts here.
Schmitt also discusses the course of the revolutionary wars, and Mao's works. the ultimate intent of such wars is to socially subvert into the political territory of the enemy - or criminal lands. This is a large measure of violent change, it forces land upon the enemy through culture. One state must make the very land turn against the opposing state. It seems that the cold and passive phase of war accounts for 90% of the effort, and the decisive acts of the military are a final movement.

Where the great spaces increase the force of subversion must also increase, in time and space. And where defenses build up there appears to be a stasis. This is why we exist in an interim or mixed state where the forces of war are permanent, yet it all plays out as a hidden and passive destructiveness - which is of course the greatest enemy of the warrior.

There is also an increase of destructiveness even though arms are largely renounced. Nietzsche's powderless warfare. Tactics all become overwhelming the enemy while ensuring that what remains of the homeland cannot be overwhelmed - which is paradoxically the same thing since it requires an architecture of overwhelming production, communication, and transportation.

At the same time powder builds up, as in the chemistry shop, and all territories submit to awaiting and looking out for an impossible destructiveness - which is nonetheless hidden. The distinction between attacks and accidents is lost, just as the anti-war character takes over the military. The rebels in Afghanistan and Iraq won largely through such hidden deployments against mobilisation, transport, and communication. Ensuring that positions of counter-defense could not remain. They defeated the occupations through a sustained terror from within the lands, the hidden dominion, turning the very earth against them. A reserved type of defence in depth, not unlike the early Soviet retreat against the Germans, but having to play out within the smallest territory.

[Anonymous No.19041400]

Storm of Steel?
More like Forever War ZOG Lightning

[Anonymous No.19042563]

What other war books should I read?

[Anonymous No.19042660]

>>19042563
>marbot's napoleonic memoirs should be read by every soldier.
>dat moment when he climbs on a dangerous platform just to experience cannonballs whistle by, happened in ww1 too. or when napoleon orders his entourage to rescue a drowning russian in a river.
t. jünger in copse 125 or one of those other steel stormlets

[Anonymous No.19042672]

>>19040661
>>19041400
I know Zog is retarded but to imagine that war is impossible unless it’s fighting for israel is stupid

[Anonymous No.19042747]

>>19040880
I'm simply hoping there's no relation to Klaus von.

[Anonymous No.19042881]

What version of this book should I read? Should I just read the Penguin Classics edition?

[Anonymous No.19042998]

>>19042881
Looks like penguin is best.

[Anonymous No.19043381]

>>19042563
The Things They Carried
The Stalin Front
Dispatches
Zinky Boys
The Unknown Soldier (Unknown Soldiers)