Appreciating the Qur'an: Part Six

[Anonymous No.17183069]

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم، و الحمد الله، و الصلاة و السلام
على رسول الله

To my brothers,
السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته

This is part six of an ongoing series on appreciating the Qur'an. The original seven parts are: Aesthetics; Narrative; Jurisprudence; Theology; Traditionalism vs Fundamentalism; Arabic; and Current Events (including the role of politics in sectarianism and contemporary translations). I will in sha' Allah be adding some parts, namely,

The Unseen, which will discuss the nature of things like magic, jinn, angels, the heavens, the hells, the virgins of paradise, dreams, the soul, and so on.

Seerah, an overview of the life of Muhammad ﷺ and his closest companions in personality, how he rose to power, fought wars, established an empire, preached the message, and lived his day to day life. What made him special.

Epistemology, what is the approach to knowing and believing in Islam, both in religious and secular matter, including Hadiths.

Practice: how the Qur'an is lived in day to day life.


First part, aesthetics, is a run down of what is the aesthetic appeal of the Qur'an and suggestions for how to get an idea of that in English

Second part, narrative, is a rundown of the context of the Qur'an, from the cosmology of creation to the role of prophets. It includes suggested material to read and a extensive audio series on the life of Muhammad (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him).

The third part, jurisprudence, is on the formation of Qur'anic jurisprudence and its various schools and methodologies.

The fourth part, theology discusses the main Sunni creeds as well as the Shia creed.

The fifth part, traditionalism vs fundamentalism, covers the antecedents of these trends and the premises they have formed. Their modern manifestations will be covered in current events in sha' Allah.

Prior op's and links to resources here
justpaste dot it/u/Qjabir

This, the sixth part, is on Arabic. My life is very busy lately, so I'm sorry for the long absence, I haven't had a lot of time to dedicate to writing this topic and it deserves a lot of time. I initially wanted to give a crash course on classical Arabic but I finally decided that a "crash course" would be far too extensive for a thread on /lit/. Those who are interested in learning classical Arabic, I will add some things on it to the resources I linked this well in sha' Allah. For this thread I have opted to give an overview of the "philosophy" and distinctiveness of classical Arabic. But before we get into the dry parts, let's start by going over some example passages from the Qur'an in the Arabic

Surah 100
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YaOZS4ZoRY8

Things to note: the rhyming syllable for the first several verses is "ha", but the h here is ح. Now Arabic features three different h's, one like
Cont

[OP No.17183081]

>>17183069
English, represented as ه. One harsh, represented as خ (this is the one used by western conservatives to pronounce Ahmed but actually Ahmed uses ح). And this one, ح. It's the h you use when you're panting or blowing on glasses. To discerning ears it's repetition is very evocative of shorting horses. This is in keeping with it being used as the rhyming syllable for the scene of a raid. This scene itself evokes something else: when Muhammad ﷺ first warned his tribe openly, he called out the alarm, "Wa sabahah!". Normally this alarm is for a dawn raid, the enemy would ride in and light the village on fire and massacre anyone they could find, they attacked at dawn, it was a common wartime strategy. Everyone poured out in fright and Muhammad ﷺ warned them about idolatry and how they must worship Allah alone or else they would go to hell. You can probably imagine the response he got. Anyway this type of raid is being described. Then judgement is talked about, the rhymed words are "breast" and "grave" (for the resurrection), which instantly connects the idea of uncovering the hidden secrets of the heart like a corpse, "the skeletons in the closet".

Surah 107
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l8VF5p4oPDE

Some points on this, this surah is about hypocrites, that is in the religious sense of people who pretend to be pious but are cold and heartless (in Islam a hypocrite specifically means someone who calls themselves a Muslim but isn't one in the eyes of Allah). The word for "recompense" here is Deen which comes from the root to obey, it refers to debt, religion and law and judgement. Handing out a judgement is related to settling a score as well as obedience to authority, the Deen here signifies the Day of Deen (Doomsday). Thus the hypocrite gives no concern for it. Also Deen could mean religion as Islam is called "the Deen". Someone who proclaims they are Muslims with their lips but denies (an accurate translation might be "give the lie" here) it with their actions. Repulsing the orphan here is a very powerful phrase, the word for repulse, yad‘‘ ends with a double ع, a letter that doesn't exist in English, doubled up it is very forceful, the word comes from to push or shove and it sounds just like someone resting their hand on you and then shoving you violently, the L sound at the end is from the definite prefix al before orphan, it's pronounced as a suffix of the prior word and the a is overridden by the prior vowel, here a short "u" being the nominative declension. The word used for orphan, yateem, comes from to be made fatherless, in this grammatical form it is very plaintive. The imagery that immediately leaps to my mind when I recite this is a boy on the streets trying to sell you something or just begging (this is very common in many countries) and being roughly shoved away in annoyance by whoever he is pestering and the boy trying to hold back tears from hunger.

The next verse features the word miskeen, the
Cont

[OP No.17183085]

>>17183081
poor, who were stressed a lot by Muhammad ﷺ. According to Islamic doctrine the virtuous rich will have to spend an extra forty years being judged than the virtuous poor because every cent they ever made or spent will be audited and they'll be grilled about it (the rich were not virtuous will have it much worse), hence many wealthy Muslims would give away all their money (Muhammad ﷺ was actually very poor until he started making a fortune from raids and conquest, as he said he made his living under the shadow of his spear, but this he distributed almost all to the poor of his followers almost as soon as he got it, eventually leading his wives to collectively complain about his austerity which he resolved by saying if they wanted wealth he would divorce them and marry them to rich husbands, which they declined; he had several houses, one for each wife, but they were all one room with dirt floors). The mosque of Muhammad ﷺ had several homeless people living in it. The word miskeen though comes from stillness, and therefore has innate spiritual connotations.

Delaying prayers past fixed times here is exegesis more than translation, it's based on the tafsir of Ibn Kathir I think who gives multiple meanings here. Delaying prayers past fixed times is a major sign of a fake Muslim but here the text says they are neglectful or heedless of prayers, which according to Ibn Kathir also could mean internally, that is they go through the motions of prayer and the words but ignore its meaning which is also supported by the conclusion of the surah which says they make a show, they pretend to be pious but when no one is around they won't give the poor so much "al ma'un", that is the bare necessities like water and clothes and food.


As you might have seen, Arabic ascribes incredible importance to sound. The Arabic word for name, إسم, comes from "to exalt" but also to convey knowledge (and infact exalting here was etymologically used to single out, to grab and distinguish something from total being and uncover it), it is the audio essence of something, a name tells you its deepest nature in sound. Most Muslims ascribe a great deal of spiritual significance to this tongue, although the famous scholar Ibn Hazm did not consider it any better than any other language, just the language of the Qur'an. At the root of the language is a very strong phonetic philosophy, each letter is believed to have its right. While letters can be subsumed or silent in some contexts, these contexts are based on clearly defined rules, not just particular exceptions. Because of this outlook, the sound of each letter is unique to it and only in a few special cases (also clearly defined by rules) can one letter
Cont

[OP No.17183089]

>>17183085
make a sound that would normally made by another letter. Furthermore there are 28 (or 29, depending on how you look at it) distinct letters in the Arabic alphabet (not counting short vowels which are unwritten normally but expressed in notation in the Qur'an), and all but the first are primarily used as consonants, with the first and two others sometimes vowels of part of diphthongs; Arabic requires a much finer attention to sound than English, it contain several more letters, though it doesn't feature the English letters of p, v or hard g, the last being present only in the Egyptian accent which for example pronounces jihad as "geehad" using a hard g and Hajj as "hag"; Levantine accent by contrast sometimes pronounces it Geehad as in French "Gigi", especially in the parts of Syria which sound like the Arabic equivalent to Valley Accent; most of the Arab world pronounces the letter classically, which is like in "pledge" or "badge", (btw it's jihad, not jihod). Iraqi dialect uses invented Arabic letters to represent p and v when dealing with foreign names, but in other dialects both are typically rendered as b and w or b, respectively. Anyway, you won't have to think too much about that because the Qur'an is internationally read in Qurayshi accent.

Arabic makes a firm distinction between sounds normally interchangeable for one letter in English. For example, "th" has three forms in Arabic, ظ, ذ, ث. The first as in "path", the second as in "brother", the third is further back in the mouth and doesn't really exist in English (many dialects don't pronounce this as a th rather as sort of deep z but in Qur'anic Arabic it is properly a type of th, some people can't distinguish, so this is important to remember if you have a teacher because he might be a very good teacher but not pronounce this, but most Muslims, even non Arabs, who practice Qur'an have learned to correctly say it; modern standard Arabic uses the Quranic pronunciation for all letters including this). This is all closely connected with the emphasis on the oral nature of literature in Arabic, the Qur'an itself is seen as primarily passed down through people memorizing the whole thing, the written copies are for supplement. Muhammad ﷺ said, "We are an unlettered nation, we do not write or calculate." (Arabs didn't keep the year by number until 'Umar, رضي الله عنه, the second Caliph, ordered annual dating). He wasn't of course
Cont

[OP No.17183094]

>>17183089
prohibiting literacy (he encouraged it), but it did describe the character of Arabs and perhaps Muslims. In fact there was no serious attempt to write down the longest Arab epic, the Sirat Bank Hilal, until recently. This made Arabs very sensitive to sound, the words are extremely descriptive and rhythm is unavoidable. For example the phrase la ilaha il Allah, there is no god but Allah, you could easily tap the rhythm to that with your hand. The vowels can be misleading in transliteration but if you know the pronunciation then you know the rhythm I mean.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gjAtbuihonU

Note: the nominative declension of Allah (Allahu) uses here is dropped in pronounciation when there is a pause, Arabic drops all declension in pauses, in Qur'an recitation included, hence pausing is not permitted sometimes, other times it's mandatory, others it's optional, others it's recommend (the traditions of where to pause are multiple, each traces back to Muhammad ﷺ who recited it many, many, many times and those who learned it tried to be exact on how he did it when they learned, and today those who are officially in a line which records exactly who taught him and certified him and who taught him so on all the way to Muhammad ﷺ and the angel Gabriel, عليه السلام, and then Allah, عز و جل--someone can get certified by multiple lines too). Iraqi and most other dialects generally don't even pronounce these declension (nominative, genitive and accusative) at the end of nouns outside Qur'an and doing so in an informal setting is seen as a bit archaic and quaint, it's done sarcastically like "unbeknownst" is in English, a non-Arab though is regarded as refined and couth for doing so. Declension isn't visible in most writing as it's expressed by the aforementioned short vowel notation.


Yikes this is too long for a thread so let's wrap it up with history. The Qur'an was originally revealed in seven different Arabic dialects including Yemani (saying Yemeni is offensive to them, I'm not sure why, maybe a dialect thing), but when Islam expanded to non Arabs, ‘Uthman, the Caliph, ordered every copy of the Qur'an destroyed except
Cont

[OP No.17183099]

>>17183094
for the Quarayshi one (this was Muhammad's ﷺ dialect), reason being non-Arab Muslims were being taught the Qur'an from different teachers and as a result learning different parts in different dialects. For Arabs this wasn't a problem at all but non-Arabs (which included everyone outside the Arabian peninsula then) could be easily mixed up by how complicated it was and ‘Uthman, رضي الله عنه, wanted to make it easier for them. This angered a lot of Arabs but most considered it reasonable. These original dialects are sometimes conflated with Qir'at, which aren't the same, all the Qir'at of today are Qurayshi, they are the various narational traditions mentioned above. There is some difference between them but not significant enough to be considered a discrepancy of meaning, rather they're considered normal variations a narrator would have between tellings, just like telling something in English might intone or stress differently different times, classical Arabic might use different forms of words, for example "malik" means owner and "maalik" means king, it's a natural difference that arises when the first syllable is stressed (and Arabic is a quantitative, not qualitative, so unlike English it stresses by longer, not louder, pronunciation). So in Surah Fatiha the phrase is Owner of the Day of Doom in Hafs version but King of the Day of Doom in Warsh version. As I said each version has a recorded pedigree so all are regarded as fully legitimate.

‘Ali, رضي الله عنه, the fourth Caliph, initiated the systematic study of Arabic grammar because Arabic was now getting mixed in with all sorts of other languages and new regional usage and pronunciation was multiplying. Many terms used to this day date from then, including the three categories noun, particle and verb, which he himself started with (adjective falls under noun in Arabic).

Any questions or comments welcome.

[Anonymous No.17183144]

كس اختك ماتنجب

[Anonymous No.17183268]

Don't bother, worst book I've ever read. It's worse than TKAM

[OP No.17183296]

This is the Arabic alphabet with pronunciation with the various vowels. Hamza (ء) is a glotteral stop, it is the cosonant used in English in uh-oh, before each syllable. ع is a cosonant pronounced from where when someone takes a sip and says "ah", that generally. غis the g used gargling, close to the stereotypical French r, "you rascally rouge!".

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sTTX7KZ1kv0

This is a more in-depth guide to tajweed
https://alifcentral.com/

I would recommend mastering these before starting Arabic since pronunciation in transliteration is not standardized and teachers in person and in videos often have accents you could end up imitating

[Anonymous No.17183315]

LAul.

[Anonymous No.17183340]

>>17183069
Well, I am not Muslim and I have no desire to become one, but I appreciate the effort you went through to write this up for a forum like this one. I have learned many interesting things about Islamic and Arabic culture from these threads, and I hope that you continue making them despite the flamewars they often turn into.

[Anonymous No.17183357]

Glad you're back OP
Happy new year

[OP No.17183423]

>>17183340
I will, God willing. Thank you

>>17183357
Thank you

[Anonymous No.17183538]

>>17183069
MashaAllah, proud of you op; helping to spread the light of Islam to these transgressing kuffars.
That being said, I'm what you could say an ex-muslim, but I don't really hate Islam. My faith in God has simply gone away. I think Christianity has this self-hating spirit inherent to it, and I dislike that.
On the other hand, I know that Islam is strong with great moral guidelines - very life affirming, but I can't see the prophet Muhammmad as being a genuine prophet of God. I see him as an incredibly charismatic man at the right time at the right place, a leader of civilization.
Any book recs that could help me reembrace Islam in full? Perhaps books that specifically discuss the genuine God-guided prophethood of Muhammad ibn Abdullah? Books by non-muslims are also welcome to ensure diversity of opinion and objectivity.

[Anonymous No.17183551]

>>17183357
not OP, but just to let you know a lot of muslims do not respond to Happy New Year (due to gregorian origins). The Muslim new year is the Hijri.

[Anonymous No.17183561]

>>17183538
Geez what a fucking mess you are.

[Anonymous No.17183569]

>>17183561
exactly

[OP No.17183592]

>>17183538
Listen to the audio series on Muhammad ﷺ in the resources linked in the OP

[Anonymous No.17183603]

>>17183592
any books? I prefer reading

[OP No.17183641]

>>17183551
Many Muslims use the Gregorian calendar because everyone else does, new years even in the hijri calendar is now celebrated. Observing non-Islamic holidays is mostly prohibited (and even within Islam holidays are sometimes contested such as celebrating Muhammad's ﷺ birthday which Sufis support but Salafis oppose).

>>17183603
I very strongly suggest the audio series because it is long and comprehensive and easy to listen to (its transcription is available but it's thousands of pages) but The Sealed Nectar is very good just be sure to get the revised edition if you get English because the original translation is unreadable.

[OP No.17183676]

>>17183641
>new years even in the hijri calendar is now celebrated.
Is *not

Hijri calendar observances nowadays are religious holidays and fast days although more pious Muslims use it for other things as they see it as part of Muslim identity

[Anonymous No.17183688]

>>17183641
ok, will check it out. thanks

[OP No.17183727]

>>17183688
Also see Under the Shade of the Qur'an in the resources

[Anonymous No.17183938]

>>17183069
Square Kufic is very cool. Been reading the Study Quran little by little in recent months.

[OP No.17184089]

>>17183938
Here's Qutb's commentary if you're interested, it's pretty good

https://www.kalamullah.com/shade-of-the-quran.html

[Anonymous No.17184112]

>>17184089
Thanks, I got that off libgen a while ago. I plan on looking at specific commentaries once I finish my first read through.

[OP No.17184157]

>>17184112
It's by far the most readable commentary. Ibn Kathir's is the most comprehensive, I don't they have it unabridged in English, even the abridging is ten volumes. Tabari and Qurtubi are great too of course. The tafsir of Ibn Abbas is pseudographical and I would not use it for anything but authentic Hadiths ascribed to him (not taken from that tafsir) are very good as he was extremely knowledge on Qur'an

[Anonymous No.17184245]

>>17184157
what are your thoughts on Al-Razi? The first volume of his commentary is available in English.

[OP No.17184322]

>>17184245
It would be sort of like reading a commentary on the Bible by Isaac Newton.

[OP No.17184631]

Are these OP's too long? I'm thinking I should wittle them down to one post so they're more readable

[Anonymous No.17184664]

there are chantards who think they're christians

[OP No.17184684]

>>17184664
Why couldn't they be?

[Anonymous No.17185343]

Bump

[Anonymous No.17186387]

Ibn Arabi and Rene Guenon literally proved that Allah = Brahman, and Islam is secretly Hinduism.

[OP No.17186418]

>>17186387
Mishima said he loved Islam because it was the opposite of Hinduism

[Anonymous No.17186466]

>>17186418
He must have been pretty ignorant to say such a thing.

[OP No.17186498]

>>17186466
No he just accepted Islam as it was instead of trying to squish it into his fantasy of it.

[Anonymous No.17186516]

>>17186498
So Ibn Arabi aka "The Greatest Sheikh" knew less about Islam than some gimpy homosexual manlet who lived in Japan?

[Anonymous No.17186525]

>>17186516
Why wouldn't this be possible? Allah guides whom He wills

[Anonymous No.17186542]

>>17186525
What exactly did Ibn Arabi get wrong? Remember that Ibn Taymiyyah went softest on Ibn Arabi of all the "heretical" Sufis.

[OP No.17186576]

>>17186516
Ibn Arabi is not considered the greatest Shaykh, man. He's considered very fringe at best. He said the prophet Noah was wrong to criticize idolatry and misunderstood it and the flood was his fault

[OP No.17186590]

>>17186542
I don't think so, Ibn Taymiyyah considered him an apostate whereas most Sufi thought he just regarded as extreme in total rejection of rationalism and causation

[Anonymous No.17186598]

>>17186576
>Ibn Arabi is not considered the greatest Shaykh, man.
>He is renowned among practitioners of Sufism by the names al-Shaykh al-Akbar ("the Greatest Shaykh

gnosis doesn't care about your feelings

[Anonymous No.17186607]

>>17186590
He was softest on Ibn Arabi (compared to, let's say, Hallaj) because Ibn Arabi is just radical tawhid taken to its logical conclusion. Ibn Taymiyyah realized this.

[OP No.17186611]

>>17186598
No he isn't lol. Unless you mean extremely fringe houses. Most Sufi orders would regard him as heretical at best, they aren't goofy hippies like the west thinks, they revere al-Ghazali, the most famous Sufi thinker

[OP No.17186617]

>>17186607
He wasn't soft on him at all, he said his shirk was beyond even Christians

[Anonymous No.17186632]

>>17186611
>Most Sufi orders would regard him as heretical at best, they aren't goofy hippies like the west thinks,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqKXX9PcV3I

[OP No.17186641]

>>17186632
Yes these are fringe. Orthodox Sufism is people like Muhammad Taqi Usmani

[Anonymous No.17186651]

>>17186632
What was this supposed to prove?
>music
>dancing
>no beards
These guys are obviously "fringe" as OP was saying

[Anonymous No.17187248]

Bump

[Anonymous No.17188000]

>>17186651
Most Sufi orders use music in their dhikr though? Like the vast majority of them. The only one I can think of that doesn't is the Naqshbandi. Not the guy you're replying to btw.

[Anonymous No.17188023]

>>17183069
I like the caligraphy, but the Koran is a boring read! It's even more boring than the Bible.

[OP No.17188231]

>>17188000
Singing isn't considered music in the haram sense if it's spiritual, the instruments are what's disallowed

>>17188023
If you have an extremely short attention span (I expect you haven't read anything I wrote, including the first thread in the series), then it is very difficult to appease except with Pokémon or pornography

[Anonymous No.17188331]

>>17184631
>Are these OP's too long
Yes, I appreciate the effort. But you gotta accord the message with the audience. The Messenger didn't drop complex theology on peasants.

[Anonymous No.17188340]

>>17188231
I mean it depends on the order but many do use instruments as well, it depends on the region and the madhab of the order though.

[Anonymous No.17188353]

>>17188231
I thought percussion instruments (or at least some of them) were authorized ? Nice thread BTW.

[Anonymous No.17188375]

>>17186641
Mufti Taqi usmani respects Ibn Arabi, though.
Your view on sufism is warped, mate.

https://www.ilmgate.org/wahdat-al-wujud-wahdat-al-shuhud-and-the-safest-position/

[OP No.17188377]

>>17188331
Tbf the audience I was aiming for was readers but the next thread I will try to cut down heavily, I was going to do a pretty heavy one for current events too and the Qur'an's contemporary influence discussing a lot of verses and passages and the conclusions and various interpretations from sufis to Shia to Saud to ISIS but maybe I should just give a sketch

>>17188340
Instruments are completely haram in every madhhab except Zahiri which doesn't have any orders and actually not taken seriously except by Salafis. All the four imams explicitly condemned them, Abu Hanifa went the furthest actually forbidding toe tapping and saying trespassing was permitted if it was to destroy instruments. Al-Ghazali famously used birds in defense of music but he was referring to singing not instruments

[Anonymous No.17188404]

>>17183069
Assalam Alaikum, I was an atheist throughout my teens, but now I wish to return back to Islam, Do you know where should I start? I am currently reading the Quran from a Phone app. Do you recommend any other version?

[Anonymous No.17188406]

>>17188353
The hand drum is indeed allowed in many circumstances, mostly weddings in most schools of thought, and some also say outside of that. It's the exception to the rule, though.

[OP No.17188425]

>>17188353
Yes sometimes because Muhammad ﷺ said they were on certain occasions like weddings but it would be difficult to support a generalized permissibility of them from that as he expressed dislike for them elsewhere. The reasoning used by Hanafi would be very difficult to accommodate this in as he disliked circumscription of general principle based on particular exception, unlike the fundamentalists schools as well as Malik who made a sharp distinction between analogous and anomalous, but that's all covered in the jurisprudence thread.

>>17188375
He respects his name. Obviously there is an extreme tension between their teachings in that MTU says astrology is a capital offense and Ibn Arabi says it's a noble thing. Sufis don't make takfir of Ibn Arabi but they do reject his teachings and that is quite clear here though he is polite about it

[Anonymous No.17188428]

>>17188377
if you enjoy writing your long form posts, you can always make OP a sketch and link to the fuller exposition on pastebin or whatever that site is you've been using

[Anonymous No.17188434]

Is it true that it is permissible to kill rafida? Are the so called Shia just polytheists who replaced their old gods with the worship of the sahaba?

[OP No.17188441]

>>17188404
Check out the resources I linked, I will add more إن شاء الله in the near future

Do you mean an English commentary?

[OP No.17188447]

>>17188428
It's actually a pain I just try to be informative

>>17188434
Shia actually don't like most of the Sahaba and some of the more zealous actually curse them as dhikr. They are very devoted to the family of Muhammad ﷺ which they regard as betrayed by the Sahaba after his death

[Anonymous No.17188456]

>>17188425
You clearly haven't studied in Arabi. In those days there was no distinction between astronomy and astrology like we have today. Ibn 'arabi was referring to astronomy, not astrology.

Just as a good advice between Muslim brothers: if you don't know a scholar's teachings well, it is safest to just refrain from speaking on him. What if you're mistaken and he was a great wali of Allah? Then you end up on yawm Al qiyama having slandered one of Allah's friends, and that's not a position either one of us wants to be in.

[Anonymous No.17188463]

>>17188447
I have heard that some shia living in dar al-kufr have stopped hiding their true nature and have reverted to the worship of Lat. I have not been able to verify this myself though.

[Anonymous No.17188468]

>>17188406
>>17188425
Thank you. I think I'll begome Shia though

[OP No.17188480]

>>17188456
There is and always was a clear distinction in Islam this is evident in Hadiths where it says stars for reckoning is permissible, just studying the sky for other reasons is discouraged, and believing in astrological omens is shirk

Ibn Arabi puts down Nuh I don't really think obfuscation can help him. Even MTU says plainly his statements are unsupported and on subjects we are forbidden to speculate on

>>17188463
Shia don't worship Lat, I don't think anyone does anymore.

[Anonymous No.17188491]

>>17188441
No, I meant where should absolute beginners start from, and yeah I am checking out the links

[OP No.17188496]

>>17188491
Those are for absolute beginners unless you mean like you forgot how to do salat and so forth

[Anonymous No.17188499]

>>17183538
>self-hating spirit inherent to it
maybe Lutherans

[Anonymous No.17188501]

>>17188480
But then just ask yourself, if it's that clear that he's a kafir(in your understanding) why is it that people like Mufti Taqi Usmani, and yes, many others, do refer to him with رحمه الله? You can't say it's Adab, because if someone insults a prophet and you then go ahead and say رحمه الله about them, that puts yourself in the same category as them.

Sidi, please tell me if you've read even a single book by Ibn 'Arabi yourself. Not a commentary or something, or an article, but you yourself. If not, simply refrain from speaking about him, it's that simple.

[Anonymous No.17188514]

>>17188496
>unless you mean like you forgot how to do salat and so forth
y-yes I did

[Anonymous No.17188524]

>>17188468
akhi i would strongly recommend against it. The shia are not muslims, so nothing you have read here is relevant to that. They are our version of Scientologists.

[OP No.17188534]

>>17188501
He's a kaffir by my aqidah, not by his. There is a difference of opinion on what makes someone a kaffir. And indeed heterodox figures can be held in high regard in particular fields. Ibn Rushd for example is widely regarded as heretical at best in several theological matters but in jurisprudence he is held in high regard. Likewise Ibn Arabi's spiritual discipline is admired by Sufis but his theology has very few of any adherents because it is completely unacceptable and MTU says as much but simply says it's not his place to attack.

I haven't but I've read statements by him as well as Guénon on him and quoting him and not only are they shirk but even MTU explanation is as it means our akhirah is unity with Allah

[Anonymous No.17188571]

>>17188524
>The shia are not muslims
How so ? Twelvers believe in Tawhid and the prophethood of Muhammad (pbuh).

[Anonymous No.17188572]

>>17188534
So you've read statements by his, out of context, probably in translation, by some kafir who also took the prophet's ﷺ statements and twisted them. Is Guenon a reliable source on our scholars now?

As for "I have read statements by him", that means nothing if not in their proper context in Arabic. He's a famously complicated writer, to the point that professors of Arabic study him for his use of language rather than his aqidah. And it's easy to take statements out of context, like your own: I can easily do this with your post:
"Likewise, ibn 'Arabi's spiritual discipline is admired... As it means our akhira is unity with Allah."

Simply. Refrain.

[OP No.17188578]

>>17188514
I would start with newmuslimacademy.org although the theology you could pass on, it's very dry. Just do practice. Here are books on practice too
https://www.kalamullah.com/umdah-al-fiqh.html

It's Hanbali but it gives other opinions on several things as it goes. If you're more traditionalist inclined you should look into Abdal Hakim Murad.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=660s&v=07Ien1qo_qI

If you're fundamentalist leaning then Ahmad Musa Jibril
https://muslimcentral.com/audio/ahmad-jibril/

Both do somewhat strawman their opposition (Murad completely misrepresents Ibn Taymiyyah, and AMJ misunderstands how taqlid works or why their are madhhab differences), but in heavy divides you will always get that

[Anonymous No.17188588]

What is the best english translation of the Quran?

[OP No.17188592]

>>17188572
I only gave Guénon for your own sake, my main source is someone I know who is very well read on him and also a Muslim. The fact that you blew off his denigrating Nuh is a bit strange to me as I'm not sure exactly what you consider kufr.

[OP No.17188593]

>>17188588
Arberry for reasons I gave in the aesthetics thread

[Anonymous No.17188598]

>>17188592
I blew it off because I'm not convinced you understood it correctly. Ascribing something like that to a scholar is extremely grave, and one might even say it's ghiba. We Muslims aren't supposed to entertain slander on other Muslims, especially not on the sole basis of anonymous posts on a Tibetan basket weaving forum.

[OP No.17188610]

>>17188598
I'm not sure if you cared. In fact I get the feeling you are not taking this issue in good faith and would always respond to defend any statement of kufr by him as I didn't understand it. Very well. However in Islam one judges by the apperent. Thus if a statement is apperently kufr the esoteric understanding is not relevant,it is to be regarded as kufr and if it's not then you are free from blame as you judge by the apperent

[Anonymous No.17188621]

>>17188578
Thanks a lot!

[OP No.17188624]

>>17188621
Wa iyyak

Do you know how to read Arabic?

[Anonymous No.17188631]

>>17188624
I was taught by a Maulana as a kid, but I forgot

[Anonymous No.17188646]

I read most of this over the Christmas break. Manages to be very readable without sacrificing depth.

[OP No.17188661]

>>17188631
>>17183296
After memorizing that learn grammar

https://www.kalamullah.com/arabic.html

Then use corpus.quran.com for vocabulary, there's also a link to Lane's Lexicon there which is very good for classical Arabic usage although Wehr's modern dictionary is a useful supplement and occasionally has things where Lane's lacks

[OP No.17188677]

>>17188646
Islam in Focus is also good as an introduction

[Anonymous No.17188684]

hello friends
i hope you are all ok this beautiful morning, or whatever time of day it is where you are
i am just here to remind you
allah doesn't exist
mohammed was a paedophile rapist
muslims are the worst people on earth
anyone who thinks the quran is meaningful is an utter moron
and finally OP is a faggot
ok everyone, i hope you all have a great day

[Anonymous No.17188772]

>>17188661
will do

[Anonymous No.17189576]

Bump

[Anonymous No.17191378]

Bump

[Anonymous No.17191436]