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/lit/ - Literature

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16697155 No.16697155 [Reply] [Original]

Do you press the lever?

>> No.16697169

>>16697155
No? The risk of losing 5 family members is too high to save just one?

>> No.16697178

>>16697155
Which loved one is tied to the tracks? I'll gladly give up a cousin or some shit

>> No.16697184

>>16697155
Isn’t this that joker thing

>> No.16697310

>>16697155
Twist: The entire scenario unfolds on a huge trolley speeding towards a cliff edge.

>> No.16697372

>>16697155
Obviously.

Pressing the lever guarantees at least the family member tied to the tracks survives.

Doing nothing condemns everyone.

>> No.16697393

jump in front of the trolley

>> No.16697394

>>16697372
>Doing nothing condemns everyone
no? You only have 1 death if you do nothing with a net of 2-4.

>> No.16697417

>>16697155
the solution to any trolley problem is very easy
simply. never go to a trolley or rail track ever
if fate puts you into one somehow then you just jump front of the track because your destiny has outgrown your free will and your life if but a rail leading to the unmovable outcome of your vehicular suicide

>> No.16697425

I do nothing. My choices are
>allow one person I know to be killed
or, a 50/50 chance between
>kill three people i do not know
>kill thirteen people, five of whom I know

The important part here is that I don't have the right to involve the lives of eight people who are currently in no danger.

>> No.16697427

>>16697178
Then are they really a loved one?

>> No.16697431

>>16697184
kind of except in that scenario if both groups did nothing then nobody died. So it was strictly fear and distrust of the other group did that would result in any deaths

>> No.16697437

>>16697425
I feel like there would be a much bigger dilemma if the unknown was only 1. Strictly in bodycount not pulling the level is already ahead, you dont even really get to the trust issue with the other guy

>> No.16697460

>>16697427
Not really. But it would still depend on who was tied to the tracks for me

>> No.16697464

>>16697155
Run onto the track and sacrifice yourself

>> No.16697667

>>16697155
this is a very unrealistic situation as I am a schizoid without loved ones

>> No.16698289

>>16697155
of course, there is no one i hate more than my loved ones

>> No.16698443

>>16697155
the trolley problem is such a brainlet introduction to philosophy, the trick is in trying to logically solve a question that is meant to be solve on the emotional level, the solution is obviously the order of the importance of your loved ones to you and with what decision they'd be okay with after you consult with them

>> No.16698500

This isn't actually the Prisoner's Dilemma. Game theoretically it's closer to chicken. An inherent part of the Prisoner's Dilemma is that snitching is ALWAYS better than not snitching. E.g. other guy snitches, you're still better off snitching yourself because it'll reduce your sentence.
Since in the above scenario switching can result in a net loss compared to not switching the above problem isn't actually representative of the prisoners dilemma.

>> No.16698529

.5 - loved one dies
.375 - strangers die
.125 - everyone dies
If you sort by reward + likelihood, best option is to kill the loved one and revel in it

>> No.16699027

>>16697155
>Having six loved ones
What kind of twisted fantasy is this

>> No.16699040

>loved one's
Fucking lol.
I slam that motherfucker and tell the other guy to do the same for le epic funny. Then I start dancing to "Wyclef Jean" by Young Thug. Seriously it's hilarious how these ethical qualms fall apart when you add in someone with no morals into the equation. This is why I don't read most of philosophy as well, half of it can just be totally discarded.

>> No.16699042

>>16697155
The pic is onto something here, but the numbers need to be adjusted, because the choice is braindead and there is no dilemma.

>> No.16699063

>>16699040
pathetic

>> No.16699095
File: 28 KB, 569x393, 2322323454354353fdgfd.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16699095

>>16699040
twisted fucking psychopath

>> No.16699115

Pull the lever immediately.

The other guy is bluepilled so he will selfishly save his family by pulling the lever. If I did not pull the lever his superior numbers could easily overpower me and my loved ones. Even if I am mistaken and he doesn't pull the lever, we will still have better numbers, better willpower, and there won't be three randos to worry about when me and my loved ones go in for the kill.

I pull the lever, blue doesn't: 7 high morale reds, 6 low morale blues, 0 undecided
I pull the lever, blue pulls the lever: 2 angry reds, 2 angry blues, 0 undecided
I do not pull the lever, blue pulls the lever: 6 low morale reds, 7 high morale blues, 0 undecided
I do not pull the lever, blue does not pull the lever: 6 low morale reds, 6 low morale blues, 3 undecided

Better to pull the lever and stay on your toes.

>> No.16699398

I'd tell my "loved one's" to just jump off and then pull. There isn't anything apparent that's keeping them in place there.

>> No.16699414

>>16697155
Kant's Categorical Imperative. In order to will my action as a universal maxim, I have to assume the other guy will make the same choice I make. So either we both pull or we both do nothing. So 13 deaths vs 2 deaths. Obviously, I pick the second option and do nothing.

>> No.16699474

>>16697155
Trolly gibs ain't funny in 2020?

>> No.16699498

>>16697155
consider the probability
1/4 collide
1/4 killred and blue
1/4 red redirect
1/4 blue redirect
by the time the average lit users hashs this out their terminal anxiety will cause them to pull the lever killing everyone.

>> No.16699622

>>16699115
baaaaaaaaaaaaassssseeeeeeeeeeed

>> No.16699656

>>16697178
Then it's not really a loved one, u retard

>> No.16699668

>>16697155
I am completely alienated and have no friends or family. So I won't even be part of this sick experiment.

>> No.16699674

>>16697155
you pull the leaver first, so that if the other person pulls it he is responsible for killing his own family and yours which means he might not pull it as well

>> No.16699705

>>16697372
Are you retarded? Steamrolling the one family member saves everyone on your train. It's the best option.

They only reason you would go for the three strangers is if you're greedy

>> No.16699710

>>16697425
This is the solution

>> No.16699721

50% to kill 1 loved one
50% to kill 3 strangers
- - - - - 25% to kill 5 loved ones and 8 strangers
- - - - - 25% to kill 3 strangers

Not pulling the lever is by far the best option.

>> No.16699735

The lives of people I don't love have almost no value to me.

Anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't really value their friends and family.

>> No.16699751

>>16697155
These are so dumb.
Like, it's impossible to make these happen in real life.
And even if it was, morality doesn't exist, so it literally doesn't matter.

>> No.16700133

>>16697155
more of a logistical problem than a moral one.

>> No.16700170

>>16697155
I don't have any loved ones, so if my trolley is full of people claiming to be so, they're lying. I'll pull the lever because their lies only serve their own interests and they deserve to be punished for it. If possible, I'll pull the other lever too.

>> No.16700196

>>16697155
Can't they all just jump off the trolleys and help the other person out. There doesn't seem to be any railings or anything stopping them from getting off.

>> No.16700310

>>16697155
It's not a prisoner's dilemma.
The point of the prisoner's dilemma is that, no matter what the other person does, I'm better off betraying him.
Here I'm better off pulling the lever if the other person doesn't pull the lever (and I have no scruples about killing innocents), whereas I'm worse off pulling the lever if he does too.
So no prisoner's dilemma, the answer is this >>16697169

>> No.16700358

>>16697155
Laughing my ass off nigga, who comes up with this shit lol, is this the power of super autism?

>> No.16700362

>>16697417
Based.

>> No.16700376

>>16699115
So much this.

>> No.16700380

>>16700170
Based psycho

>> No.16700389
File: 207 KB, 730x544, 1601453010972.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16700389

I pull the lever. Always. Action is better than passivity.

>> No.16700413

>>16700389
The comic had a potential up until the second row.

>> No.16700455

>>16700389
This comic literally advocates for not pulling the lever.

>> No.16700475

>>16697155
yes, because there's a chance all your loved ones will be fine, if God wills it

to not pull the lever is to be responsible for the negligence that led to the death of a loved one

>> No.16700580

>>16700455
>He doesn't understand that one can post a picture that one disagrees with.


Pull the god damn lever you fucks. Take responsibility for the causal chain of the universe. Assert your will beyond all else and deal with the consequences.

>> No.16700588

only based solution

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N_RZJUAQY4

>> No.16701042

>>16700580
But in this case instead of asserting your will, you just accept to take part in some psycho's experiment by pulling it.

>>16700588
YHWH in a nutshell

>> No.16701047
File: 323 KB, 474x282, 1594817142739.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16701047

>>16697155
ethically speaking if you pull the lever you are murdering 3 people at minimum and you will likely go to jail. The problem is that in this scenario most people will likely act illogically and emotionally try to save their one loved one which might end up killing more people.

The best answer is to do nothing because its safer and more morally correct but its likely that due to human nature that 13 people will die.
I would say it comes down to the idea of how selfish/intelligent both operators are. Neither one of them should pull the the lever because there is a higher propability for more death.

In an emotional scenario where both level pullers are aware they might be hoping or waiting to see how the other reacts. If you are selfish then you should pull the lever immediately without hesitation because the other guy would become aware that he would be dooming his 5 family members. The selfish solution would then be to force the other survivors to secrecy or tell them to lie to the police so that you dont face the consequences for a human emotional reaction.

It then basically says that the least ethical actor who does not hestiate has the most to gain from this scenario while the moral person will always be a loser.

I am wondering if this scenario could be compared to economics because in the captialist system there always has to be a loser for profits to be generated. It then goes to say that our economic system is designed for psychopathic people to be on top because they will stop at nothing to protect their resources and nothing will stop them from acting first.