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/lit/ - Literature

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File: 1.98 MB, 1712x2288, Noam_Chomsky,_2004.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16620565 No.16620565 [Reply] [Original]

>Both parties are beholden to, and serve the interests of capital
>Having an illusion of choice in politics between parties is part of how consent is manufactured in the media system
>Oh, by the way, please vote for Joe Biden this election because Trump bad.

What is it about the American electoral politics that has such a strong hold that even people who claim to be revolutionaries that want to tear down the whole system still get invested in shilling for their puppet of choice when elections come around? The way it co-opts energy that should be used for greater goals from people who should know better is an astounding level of cultural hegemony that is has no parallel. There really is no true opposition to the current system, otherwise, serious people wouldn't fall for this everytime.

>> No.16620573

>>16620565
Chomsky is a retard. Also universal grammar is even more stupid.

>> No.16620593
File: 172 KB, 297x475, on liberty cover.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16620593

>>16620565
Utilitarians were right. Kant can go fuck himself.

>> No.16620633

>>16620565
cut the guy some slack. he's barely alive, basically a walking corpse now.

>> No.16620647

>>16620565
One of the problems faced by people who want to crack the system is that it's so big and so pluralist that there are few pragmatic options for pursuing change and no one bothers to listen to people who propose specific policy amendments. In order to "tear down the system" you would have to either
A. overthrow the U.S government or
B. (only slightly less difficult) uniformly nationalize political infrastructure or, on the opposite end, kill federalism
So attempting to make do honestly is the only rational choice

>> No.16620720

>>16620565
Time for you to read the KAPD critique of social democracy.

>> No.16620737

>>16620565
America has a propaganda machine that would make fascist and communist cream their pants at how efficient it is.

>> No.16620743

>>16620565
Retards who fail to understand the importance of voting Biden are ignorant and equally being distracted like anyone else in America. Trump is fucking shit up for us on a bigger level than just economy. He's weakening our alliances, he got dabbed on by puny shitter North Korea, he's let russia do as they please, fucked up the pandemic response. And much more. This man is actively destroying the country because he doesn't know politics, diplomacy, history in general, he has a low IQ, and he's fucking lazy. Leftists who deflect from voting Biden to say YEAH BUT CAPITALISM BAD are fucking retarded. Not to mention you're completely delusional.

>> No.16620756

>>16620743

Go shill in /pol

>> No.16620776

>>16620565
He's a lifelong lesserevilist who thinks people have a duty to reduce suffering even if they can't eliminate it. Although claiming Biden as a harm reduction choice is pure TDS at this point, given his role in NAFTA, Libya, Iraq, the crime bill... he might be slightly better on the environment and healthcare, but not much else.

>> No.16620779

>>16620743
>He's weakening our alliances, he got dabbed on by puny shitter North Korea, he's let russia do as they please
seethe neocon

>> No.16620781

>>16620647
This is something I realized after having a fallout with my leftist political friends and political action group after one of them suggested that leftists essentially had a license to kill for the purposes of the revolution yet to come. Of course, realistically, one can't have a radical change without knocking a few heads around, however once the reality set in I became appalled to be associated with people who disregarded the lives of the sick, disabled young and elderly for their dreams governance. Not everything is a shade of violence and/or oppression, viewing the world as such, and making out that your alternative is the only way out, lends often to further violence in the name of peace.

>> No.16620784

>>16620756
America is incredibly based for dabbing on wannabe revolutionaries who can only destroy, and not build. Go listen to your shitty soi podcast you homo.

>> No.16620813

Hurrying America on to destruction from within isn't a solution to a crisis. Cowards.

>> No.16620816

>>16620781
The path towards peace is always paved with corpses by those who desire peace in their lifetimes. However, the problem always stems from desiring peace in the first place. One man's tranquility may be another man's hell.

>> No.16620819

>>16620743
Neoliberal retard, I bet you read TIME and the New Yorker lmao

>> No.16620821

>>16620647
Uniformly nationalizing the political infrastructure would kill federalism, though. Federalism means that there are two levels of government, specifically state and national, and that powers not held by the higher are delegated to the lower. It is not an equivalent phrase to what we would call the “Federal Government.” I would argue that the people’s insistence on the importance of who holds the Presidency and who sits on the Supreme Court is evidence that Federalism is already dying, if not already dead.

>> No.16620833

I have the exact opposite take of Chomsky here. Politics is a shame but I would rather have a strong leader like Trump than a complete pushover like Biden. I think it’s my survival instinct or something.

>> No.16620834

C O N T R O L L E D
O P P O S I T I O N
psychological operations are the tool of choice for the American oligarchy and you cannot understand American politics until you have some idea of how these work.

>> No.16620839

>>16620743
>muh Russia
>no mention of China
yeah that’s a democrat!

>> No.16620851
File: 114 KB, 640x480, glowinthedark.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16620851

>>16620743
>Trump is fucking shit up for us on a bigger level than just economy. He's weakening our alliances, he got dabbed on by puny shitter North Korea, he's let russia do as they please, fucked up the pandemic response.
>implying imperial machinations are just as important as economy and pandemic response
you revealed your hand, nice try CIA

>> No.16620856

>>16620839
why would you care about either when the american government is the enemy of its own people, how fucking dumb can you be fr

>> No.16620865

>>16620743
No, a bunch of brainlet governors fucked up pandemic response. What would you rather Trump have done? Lock you in your house for 8 months? At a national level? Whether you live in some slum in NYC or in the boonies in South Dakota? I can see you’re a masochist who craves tyranny and poorly thought out international interventionism, but really now.

>> No.16620877

>>16620834
cont... case in point >>16620839
this is gives us a perfect example of how American politics exist within a controlled dialectic maintained by the zionist, jewish media.

>> No.16620878

>granting soteriological status to individuals, parties, and economic systems
Shiggy

>> No.16620881

>>16620856
“fr” nigger, because I don’t want China to fuck us any harder than we are already being fucked. I don’t care about your made up communist faggotry, this is purely about picking a leader who is stronger, a word that probably makes you cringe

>> No.16620893

>>16620865
oh wow the US has five times as many cases as Canada, it's closest economically developed neighbor. I wonder why...

>> No.16620899

>>16620833
Trump projects an image of strength but he’s objectively done more to weaken US hegemony than any other president in at least the last 50 years.

>> No.16620907

>>16620881
China isn't 'fucking us' you imbecile, our own oligarchy is because they decided to put all of our industry there. Now they point their finger and cry at the Chinese government and act like they didn't create this fucking problem. Seriously how fucking stupid do you have to be to seriously think the Chinese are the cause of any of the self-inflicted ills of this soulless hellhole country.

>> No.16620912

>>16620893
the US--the hegemonial state and trade center of the world--was always going to have the most cases in the world. The government definitely could have done more tho I agree

>> No.16620932

>>16620893
Im unsurprised that a namefag named Dorkulus doesn't grasp the concept of per capita or demographics or even what US states and governors are.

>> No.16621032

>>16620593

Utilitarianism is not a moral theory, never was. At best it's a theory about practical inference, but even then it's narrowly focused on means-end reasoning and leaves completely untouched the question of moral motivation.

>> No.16621128

>>16620565
>Having an illusion of choice in politics between parties is part of how consent is manufactured in the media system

And by voting for the less shit option, Biden, you aren't really changing anything you are just pulling the lever on the trolley problem.

>The way it co-opts energy that should be used for greater goals

Almost like that's exactly what his fucking book is about.

>> No.16621138
File: 134 KB, 890x1024, 1583748678558.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16621138

>nobody has posted the kaczynski quote yet

>> No.16621176

>>16620565
Did you actually hear him out though? You can't deny his reasoning is pretty solid for supporting Biden if you listened to the podcast he was on.

>> No.16621205

>>16621176
He believes in Universal Grammar. That alone makes all of his opinions worthless.

>> No.16621236

>>16620781
cringe. Not cracking a few eggs for a clear goal is very cucked and is simply a prolonged the quagmire of vagueries and malaise of shades of grey and whatever you see is poisoning you/the people atm. Shallow calls to pacifism are hollow platitudes to defend mediocrity.

>> No.16621247

>>16620743
>He's weakening our alliances, he got dabbed on by puny shitter North Korea, he's let russia do as they please, fucked up the pandemic response.
NOOOOOOOOOOO THE ALLIANCES WE MUST MAINTAIN AMERICAN HEGEMONY

>> No.16621311

>>16620932
so this is my name now, I am bound to it

>> No.16621314

>>16621236
I am not about to instigate a revolution that will likely lead to the deaths of hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people, unless I have a very good reason, and the leftists did not provide one.

>> No.16621328

>>16621314
>individual subjectivity
Oh son. Nobody gets a choice.

>> No.16621334

>>16620743
>he's let russia do as they please
Nigger, Russia can't even prevent Turkey murderfucking their only ally in the Caucasus and you think Putin has a free hand in anything, because *le orangeman.

>> No.16621454

>>16620839
Yeah China is grossly outpacing the US and the pandemic has only made shit worse. What shall I say about china? The trade war is hardly benefiting us.

>> No.16621463

>>16620565
Muh lesser of two ebils

>> No.16621508

>>16621138
nobody gives a shit about that retard

>> No.16621512

>>16621314
hundreds of thousands are dying as things are now

>> No.16621525

>>16621512
Good thing I don't know them

>> No.16621539

>>16620743
I feel like he sort of embodies the modern American ethos; it seems only suitable to keep him.

>> No.16622023

>>16620573
What's the issue with universal grammar? I realize there are objections to it, I'm not entirely convinced of it either, but I'd like to here your specific objection.

>> No.16622048

>>16620633
Deserves to be ridiculed even more then.

>> No.16622049

>>16622023
*hear, fuck

>> No.16622058
File: 330 KB, 656x462, 1602819123839.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16622058

>>16620899
That may be a problem, but US hegemony in service of the vampire elite is also. The strength and hold of the mind virus detailed by the op is due to them. I don't know what there is to choice between ceding hegemony to China or the progression of the mind virus.

>> No.16622083

Eh who really gives a shit? Chomks was a pretty cool guy for the most part, did some fun grammar, was always at least politically spicy throughout his entire career. Are you really going to piss yourself because a man in his 90s isn't calling you to violence out of some misplaced paternal fixation? You want violent opinions read violent dudes, not grammarians who want to fuck the system.

>> No.16622088

>>16620743
>He's weakening our alliances, he got dabbed on by puny shitter North Korea, he's let russia do as they please, fucked up the pandemic response. And much more. This man is actively destroying the country because he doesn't know politics, diplomacy, history in general, he has a low IQ, and he's fucking lazy.
I don't like Trump as a person, but these are all excellent reasons to vote for him.

>> No.16622092

>>16622058
Why do I feel like the background in that image is a reference to something?

>> No.16622106 [DELETED] 

>>16620565
A vote for Trump is vote for killing marginized peoples.

>> No.16622111

>>16620565
A vote for Trump is a vote for killing marginized peoples.

>> No.16622125

>>16620565
Why is it so hard for some people to understand that one choice is worse than the other, even when both choices are bad? Chomsky has explained this a million times but you still can't seem to wrap your head around it.

>> No.16622136

>>16620565
When faced with insectoids, one must choose the lesser of two weevils

>> No.16622196

>>16622125
They understand that but they also know it's not cool to act based on reality, best to do and say whatever makes the clique happy. The more intelligent ones do this for money through podcasts, like Briahna Joy Gray for instance.

>> No.16622200

>>16620565
You know you can be critical and see things for what they are, and still want to avoid having the circus blown up by an orange toupee orangutang dressed up as a clown, right?

>> No.16622220

>>16620565
>The way it co-opts energy
What is it about you retards that make you think that spending half an hour every four years choosing the lesser evil somehow takes away all agency or individual responsibility?
>Don't vote or you're complicit
>Don't vote and you're complicit
Just fuck off already

>> No.16622233

>>16620565
based "Vote Blue No Matter Who" anarchism

>> No.16622248

>>16620743
>He's weakening our alliances, he got dabbed on by puny shitter North Korea, he's let russia do as they please, fucked up the pandemic response. And much more.
wtf do you think "bringing down the system" means? lmao

>> No.16622251

>>16620565
you know how he wrote Manufacturing Consent? it was a manual, not a critique, he always was a Democrat operative to neutralize opposition and make people fall in line

>> No.16622366

The important thing is, both candidates have pledged to serve the interests of Israel, our greatest ally. At least in that regard, we'll win no matter what, bros.

>> No.16622440

>>16620593
>Mill
Well at least he was right about animals.

>> No.16622534

>>16622092
It's the Blair witch project

>> No.16622667

>>16620743
IQ is a racist construct created to oppress marginalized BIPOC. Sit down and shut up, white boi

>> No.16622701

>>16622083
He's done the same thing in elections years ago

>> No.16622710

/pol/-posting outside /pol/ needs to be permaban

>> No.16622793

>>16620565
Thanks Chomsky. I won't read you. And i'm a Marxist who read Marx. You cannot be consistent and push for political economy. To me they are all puppets. All of them. They play a game. Have a role. Even Trump. They know their place, know what they can and cannot do or say. It's all theater.

>> No.16622799

>>16620647
I see no issue with either of those. Nobody in their right mind sees this fucking shithole country going on indefinitely.
One day one of its many issues is going to erupt.

>> No.16622808
File: 263 KB, 1242x1907, 1602810336962.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16622808

>>16620743
as a pedosexual, i feel that joe biden is the candidate who best supports my interests.

>> No.16622811

>>16620907
How come Trump is the only one who actually had the balls to oppose China seriously
Before you complain that he did it in a sloppy way, I agree. But aside from Trump there's been no serious pushback on China.

>> No.16622817

>>16620565
Even if one believes the system is flawed and needs to be dissolved that does not change the reality that it currently holds significant power and influence over the lives of hundreds of millions of people. Please do not be retarded next time you make a thread.

>> No.16622990

>>16620565
You see the same with all these "anti-establishment" punk bands, rockers, and hiphop artists shilling for Biden. It's pretty hilarious.

>> No.16623002

>>16620813
Its based though

>> No.16623021

>>16622083
Politically so spicy he worked at an American university and has full access to the economy. If he actually promoted ideas threatening to the established powers he wouldn't be able to sell books or use a payment processor.

>> No.16623338

>>16620743
>he's let russia do as they please,

that´s a good thing

>> No.16623344
File: 317 KB, 1195x960, 1524739820990.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16623344

>>16621138

>> No.16623363

>>16620565
This only seems like a contradiction if you seriously believe that voting is the method you should use to bring about serious change, as if voting third party--even if it wins--is somehow going to shake the bedrock of the system. You're not going to vote a revolution into existence. You vote merely for damage control.

Actual serious changes require civil disobedience, direct action, and building coalitions outside the political system. If you're doing none of those things, voting third party is just hilarious and impotent.