/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.12202548]

Is it wrong for me to relate passages of Hegel's Phenomenology of Spirit to shoujo anime like The Rose of Versailles and Revolutionary Girl Utena?
Whenever I read about Hegel describing the being-in-itself and being-for-self in opposition to being-for-another, what comes to my mind is Utena and Anthy from Revolutionary Girl Utena. Utena wants to be a prince. She wishes to assume this male role that commands respect and admiration, which is why she dresses with boy shorts and fights the Rose Duels. Yet deep inside, she accepts that she is a woman, a girl, as a matter of fact. On the other hand, Anthy is a princess. Being a princess, with witch-like powers, is what she trully is, but disguises under the façade of a normal, if somewhat meek and noticeably submissive, female high school student.
I earnestly tried to relate Hegel to anything from Western fiction or literature, but I've never seen anything like this (assertion of one's self through the rejection of others, perception of a person by themself vs by another) outside of some shoujo manga, Neon Genesis Evangelion, and bits from the Tale of Genji.

[Anonymous No.12202555]

>>12202548
is it wrong for me to relate passages of frued to persona 5?
Whenever I read about frued's super ego I think of how the phantom thieves all have personas that represent what they really think rebellion is for themselves.

[Anonymous No.12202556]

It's great that you're connecting the book to things in your life, but it seems really anachronistic and more like you're projecting yourself onto the text instead of understanding it on its own terms. But, if that helps you remember it, and you can make interesting literary parallels, I'd say go for it anon. Happy that you're engaging the texts.

[Anonymous No.12202601]

>>12202548

[Anonymous No.12202638]

>>12202548
>Is it wrong for me to relate passages of Hegel
>to shoujo anime like Revolutionary Girl Utena

Absolutely not. Ikuhara clearly possesses higher levels of what you could fairly call spiritual knowledge and you can feel this come out in the work he produces. Much of his anime has heavily influenced my own philosophical views by allowing me to experience and understand things I otherwise might not have been able to. If there is any anime that is relevant to absolute knowledge it is this.

[Anonymous No.12202648]

>>12202548
Utena is more accelerationist thought

[Anonymous No.12202658]

>>12202648
>failing to see that accelerationism is a corrupted form of Hegelianism, just like Madoka Magica is a deviation of Utena

[Anonymous No.12202674]

>>12202658
>Madoka Magica is a deviation of Utena

They have nothing to do with each other aside from the 'genre'.

[Anonymous No.12203608]

>>12202658
>Madoka Magica
>a deviation of Utena
Madoka Magica is, dare I say, the opposite of Utena.

Utena is about ideas in relation to society.
Madoka is about ideas in relation to each other in a purely abstract context.

If you don't even understand that, then you understand nothing.

[Anonymous No.12203637]

>>12202548
This is the very root of pop philosophy.
Despicable attempt at popularizing philosophical concepts through association with popular media.
There's no depth or seriousness, if anything they try to validate their interests.

[Anonymous No.12203650]

>>12203637
>Despicable attempt at popularizing philosophical concepts through association with popular media.
>Philosophy should only be available hidden in large tomes that are only accessible after you have recursively read everything that it builds upon.
>I don't want the general public to have any knowledge about it, otherwise, I won't be able to feel special any more.

>There's no depth or seriousness
>They don't present it the way I like it, this is why I am just going to dismiss it completely
You are a fool, anon.
The only way to both advance philosophy and simultaneously make it available to the public is to synthesize it into art. And that is precisely what is done here.
And art has more freedom and because of this, it will let more nuances flow in, and will, in turn, inspire new philosophy, when philosophers again will distill those same unconscious nuances from the art.
That is how it has always worked.
It is the great cultural dialog that is at play here.
But you, in your arrogance, are blind to it.

[Anonymous No.12203713]

>>12203650
No, it creates ignorant hypebeasts, opinionated little shits binging on yt videos and spreading disinformation.
Discussions become shitfests, philosophers are turned into memes, not to mention the misrepresentations you all complain about.
This has nothing to do with my preference, the problem is when they transform knowledge in a commodity requiring little to no effort from the other part.
I refuse to accept these kind of people as part of the cultural dialogue you praise, nothing of value can come out of it, that's for sure.
And no, it hasn't always worked like this, you doofus, ignoring history.

[Anonymous No.12203737]

>>12203713
>And no, it hasn't always worked like this, you doofus, ignoring history.
If you think that the great works of art through history were not at the same time inspired by philosophy and inspirational to philosophy (or, granted, religion), then you are the one ignoring history, doofus.

>No, it creates ignorant hypebeasts, opinionated little shits binging on yt videos and spreading disinformation.
Yes, and those retarded degenerates are coming here, and then they get completely shut down. Because retarded things like these can't stand against scrutiny.

>Discussions become shitfests
I have seen those shitfests corrected more often than not. People like that usually get their asses kicked.

>the problem is when they transform knowledge in a commodity requiring little to no effort from the other part.
I find that knowledge is still very much hidden in plain sight, even as it is now.
Granted, I agree that it makes lots of people use words they don't understand. That indeed is a pitiful sight to behold. But I still am of the opinion, that those people simply need to be mercilessly put in their place.

The force that is truly toxic to the dialogue are retarded(at least in their popular interpretation, or better yet, misrepresented) postmodern Ideas like: "every interpretation is valid" or "there is no correct interpretation, the author is dead"

[Anonymous No.12203759]

>>12203737
>If you think that the great works of art through history were not at the same time inspired by philosophy and inspirational to philosophy
I don't doubt that, the problem is when you say
>The only way to both advance philosophy and simultaneously make it available to the public
It's untrue, and it didn't work like this in the past, claiming the opposite is a convenient conjecture.

I see you agree with almost everything else I say, so I'll end it here.

[Anonymous No.12203821]

>>12203713
That's when it's made too obvious though; when the influences are shoved in the viewer's/reader's/listener's face. When influence is hidden, it can not only create added depth, but as well not tarnish their influences by not associating too directly.

[Anonymous No.12203949]

I wish that I was Utena
So I was fucking dead

[Anonymous No.12204396]

>>12203821
And even in that case it takes someone with an actual knowledge to read between the lines.
The average Joe would need to be spoonfed the inner meaning, or the added depth will pass over his mind.

[Anonymous No.12204405]

>>12202548
Hegel applies to everything. Look harder.