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/lit/ - Literature

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1195841 No.1195841 [Reply] [Original]

Downloading Neon Genesis Evangelion, heard it's quite deep and philosophical and I was wondering if there are any good philosophy books on fate vs free will?

>> No.1195850

Spinoza's Ethics

Sartre on Bad Faith

etc

>> No.1195849

I just read The Mysterious Stranger by Mark Twain. It fucked up my perspective on this issue. I'd recommend it.

>> No.1195870

Eva is an anime littered with pretentious religious imagery that only gives the illusion of being deep. Due to the terrible directing, characters explain their thoughts, feelings, and background to the viewer, smacking them in the face with massive amounts of exposition. For some reason, the anime community thinks this is deep.

If you're looking for something sophisticated with actual depth, I recommend you look into Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex or Legend of the Galactic Heroes.

>> No.1195874

>Downloading Neon Genesis Evangelion, heard it's quite deep and philosophical

Nah, it's just a bunch of weird stuff thrown together with religious imagery. People just say it's deep because they want to look smart. And I've watched the show at least 8 times. Give Ghost in the Shell a shot. Movies and series.

>> No.1195878

>>>/a/

>> No.1195887

Try watching Serial Experiments Lain.

>> No.1195896

>>1195841

Evangelion isn't really deep and philosophical as it is merely a rather manic and fun deconstruction of mecha genre cliches flavoured with half-thought out Christian references and is basically what happens when one Japanese anime director gets ridiculously depressed and reads far far too many psychology books and whatnot.

In a word it's bloody good. But to go in with the notion that it is DEEP, is silly. If you want full on philosophical stuff, stick to Ghost in the Shell and the occasional Miyazaki movie.

Sage for off-topic, but something I needed to say. I would remind you that if you talk about just Evangelion in this thread - you should sage as well.

>> No.1195915

NGE in itself isn't that philosphical.
It's a (highly entertaining) deconstruction of the mecha genre, with surrealist monster designs, amateur psychology and a nice dash of mindfuck in the second half of the show, but not the intellectual masterpiece some people view it as.
It's a clever take on giant robots battling monsters, nothing more and nothing less.
Unfortunately, it also has an ending severely butchered by the fact that they simply ran out of money.
Please do yourself a favor and download End of Evangelion as well, it more than makes up for the last two episodes of the series and helps a lot to make sense of what's happening.

>> No.1195922

>>1195887
I absolutely have to second this, BTW.
Polite sage because i've already bumped this with OT content.

>> No.1195925

The best thing about EVA to me were the 'Robot' and 'Monster' designs and the soundtrack.

>> No.1195937

>>1195922
My friend lent me SEL and it skipped on an episode about ten episodes in. I missed about ten minutes. I couldn't understand anything after that so I gave up on it. He understood entirely.

>> No.1195939

Serial Experiments Lain?

Never heard about it, suppose i'll check it out once i'm done with Baccano and Neon Genesis Evangelion.

>> No.1195940

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M1Wf8DU2UA

Evangelion. It's deep. This scene has more symbolism than any book ever written.

>> No.1195994
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1195994

>>1195841
it's pop philosophy with random christian motifs scattered all over.

what makes it unique is that the characters are completely fucked up and completely unlikable - illustrating some semblance of "realism".

they're all having internal conflicts and existential angst.

i wouldn't really say it's "deep", just that it's not your cookie-cutter mecha anime with cool robots and perfect people.

is it worth a watch? definitely. but don't get your panties twisted over it. in a way, Cowboy Bebop has more literary value than Evangelion ever has. you should watch that too.

>> No.1196004

We can talk about cartoons on /lit/ now?

>> No.1196012

>>1195887

this and kino no tabi.

>> No.1196013

>>1196004
No. Not that I consider anime cartoons, but no. Just no to it all.

>> No.1196054

David Hume, Locke, Kant, Sartre/other Existentialists are all rather classic well known philosophers with writings on free will. For some more hardcore analytic philosophy on the subject check out http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/freewill/..

Names that jump out at me as people i've read some of": Chisholm, Frankfurt, Kane and Wolf.. I think. And If I've read their work its pretty standard for the field.

>> No.1196084

Neon Genesis Evangelion is my favorite show of all time. There was a point when I would say that it was my favorite anything of all time.

No, it's not deep, but it is fucking awesome. Sure there's a lot of symbolism, some with meaning, some only to look cool, philosophical aspects (though I wouldn't say it goes any farther than reference), and that sort of thing but I wouldn't say it's deep. Then again I would also say that "deep" doesn't exist in anything, but that's an entirely different argument.

But besides all that, NGE is awesome. It's not for everyone, but if it's for you, then you will no doubt enjoy it immensely. It's kind of like Fight Club (the movie, I haven't read the book), too many people try to pass it off as some life changing philosophical vehicle, and too many people hate it because it doesn't serve that purpose very well. People who try to view it for what it really is, however, will most likely get a major kick.

>> No.1196190

I enjoyed the fight club movie and i've just finished reading the book. I'll start downloading both Seriel Experiment Lain and Neon Genesis Evangelion after Baccano has done downloading and after i've deleted a couple House episodes off my laptop.

>> No.1196219

>>1195841

>NGE
>Deep

Ohwaityou'reseriousletmelaughevenharder.jpg

Fuck dude, read SE:L. It isn't particularly deep either, but it is the deeper I have ever seen.

>> No.1196250

>>1196084
>People's experience after watching NGE
>People's experience after watching Fight Club.

They are apples and oranges. After people watch fight club they want to go out and DO something in the world. They want to fuck shit up, they want to fight someone. Sure, they miss the point of the movie entirely, but they don't care. They will quote Tyler for MONTHS afterwards.

People who watch NGE just say "Oh that was so good and so deep."

>> No.1196288

>>1196250
This is a perfect example of someone not getting what they expected out of something because they viewed it incorrectly and missed the point entirely.

Either that or a troll.

>> No.1196316

>and I was wondering if there are any good philosophy books on fate vs free will?
come on now /lit/ keep to the board appropriate topic.

>> No.1196317

Why is a discussion about a children's cartoon series happening on /lit/. Take it to your board >>>/a/ or >>>/co/

>> No.1196333

>>1195841
It has lot's of references to philosophy, psychology and religion and plays out many of those concepts. It also was heavily influenced by classic science fiction like childhoods dream and the concept of the over-mind. The religious concepts are mainly Judeo-Christian from genesis and apocryphal writings. Philosophical concepts and references are Schopenhauer, Søren Kierkegaard, Hegel, Sartre and existentialism in general. There are also a lot of Freudian concepts abound.

>> No.1196336

>>1196288

This is a perfect example of someone not reading a post, as I said "Sure, they miss the point of the movie entirely, but..."

Either that or a troll.

>> No.1196344

blah blah blah trolls trolling trolls. come on guys lets stick to the topic. NGE should be a good way to get /a/ basement dwellers into some decent philosophical literature.

>> No.1196350

>>1196344
I recommend Donald Davidson, not because he says much about free will, but because he's my favorite modern philosopher

>> No.1196356

>>1196344
>NGE should be a good way to get /a/ basement dwellers into some decent philosophical literature

Worked for me. Now I am a more sophisticated basement dweller. DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU

>> No.1196382

NGE is not religiously of philosophically deep. It has Judeo-Christian imagery (angels, crosses etc.) and influence from apocalyptic Pseudepigrapha, but despite being (as said above) a deconstructionist mech show, it's primarily a psychological drama.

Which is why all the /a/ and /m/ fanboys hate it. And why they claim the ending sucks. The writer/director, Hideki Anno, was going through severe depression while he did the series, and so he explored the insurmountable barriers between people (AT Fields, plus Shinji + Misato, Shinji + Gendo, etc.) and the impossibility of truly letting those barriers down.

So when the end of the series came around, he ditched the mecha for the last... what, two or three episodes? And focused _entirely_ on the conclusion of the psychological drama. Cue whining from the fanboys. The End of Eva movie was, essentially, Anno going "You want your giant mechs? HERE."

Anyway, if you want to read books/authors linked closely with Eva, I recommend;
1) Freud Freud Freud Freud Freud MotherIssues Freud Freud Freud OedipusComplex Freud Freud Freud.
2) The Pseudepigrapha and Old Testament Apocrypha from http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/
3) I dunno, Foucault or something? I stay away from deconstructionist writers.

>> No.1196393

>>1196382
Derrida is the creator of deconstruction, if you want to read some of that shit, go with him

>> No.1196465

Also interested in some stuff like Creation VS Destruction,etc.

>> No.1196883

They say that NGE was inspired by Childhood's End, by Arthur C. Clarke.