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/lit/ - Literature


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10698724 No.10698724 [Reply] [Original]

We had an engaging discussion about these two last time. Lets try it again.

>> No.10698949

It's pretty autistic desu

>> No.10698960

>>10698724
There's a desperation to create some sort of meaning nowadays but that doesn't mean every attempt is going to succeed. Orgy of the will is just obviously retarded, mundus milleniallis has potential, but get's too top heavy with dialectic that hasn't been explored through normal language enough to merit it's own terminology

>> No.10698961

People aren't ready to discuss these two. They've barely understood the 20th century yet, much less the 21st.

>> No.10698964

>>10698961
How's weather in Greece?

>> No.10698970

>>10698960
contd. I do like mundus' choice of "the autistic" as a key idea. It just feels like something that will be key to understanding 21st century thought

>> No.10698979

>>10698964
He lives in Spain currently, nice try though.

>> No.10699001
File: 29 KB, 1055x148, Screen shot 2018-02-14 at 9.53.19 PM.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10699001

>>10698724
Hadn't heard of either of these. I start scrolling aimlessly through Orgy of the Will and I see this. I actually laughed out loud at how edgy and teenager-y it was. Will this kind of autism be justified if I read the rest of it?

>> No.10699012

>>10699001
no it's fucking edgy trash

>> No.10699023

>>10699001
>"autism"
>"fucking"
Why do you guys think you're superior to him, again?

>> No.10699028
File: 64 KB, 938x243, Screen shot 2018-02-14 at 9.58.39 PM.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10699028

>>10699012
Holy shit! Is it all this retarded?? I haven't laughed this much in a week. Amazing. It's like a compilation of every embarrassing 4chan post. It's like he read the Nietzsche Wikipedia article and now thinks he's God.

>> No.10699044

>>10699023
It isn't that he's in favor of swearing, it's his euphoric attitude

>> No.10699068

>>10699001
>>10699028
Okay, I don't wanna completely dismiss it, some of it is starting to get interesting. But still, I can tell I'm in for some ride

>> No.10699076

>>10699023
It's absolutely incredible that Orgy of the Will has ever been compared to Mundus Millenialis. It's like comparing a 12yo low functioning autistic child writing about firetrucks to a young adult with aspergers writing acceptable cryptic pseudery

>> No.10699086
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10699086

>O rly?

Yeah okay I'm back to laughing again

>> No.10699112

>>10699076
You're a retard who doesn't understand either of them. Icy's idea of immersion and Rei's idea of autism are perfectly juxtaposed philosophical concepts of the 21st century.

>> No.10699121

>>10698724
lmoa stop posting your shit

>> No.10699129

>>10698724
Why does anyone but the author of Orgy of the Will even bother bringing it up?

are you him?
it's so obviously the work of an idiot who read a lot of books and now thinks he is not an idiot. The best thing about it is the name. god that fucking music on the "praise for" page, hard cringe. Nietzsche would hate this man. absolute untermensch.

mundus milennialis is a little more interesting but still seems to rely mostly on acting like it is more important than it is

>>10698961
so which one did you write?

>> No.10699148

>>10699129
>it's so obviously the work of an idiot who read a lot of books and now thinks he is not an idiot.

His work on video game art criticism is groundbreaking to say the least, though I know no one here would acknowledge it as such or even consider it, since no one here has anything to do with video games. Which, by the way, marks you as an uncouth charlatan, in the matters of 21st century philosophy and art criticism.

>> No.10699184
File: 40 KB, 1024x90, Screen shot 2018-02-14 at 10.35.34 PM.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10699184

>>10698724

>> No.10699203

>>10699148
I love a lot of video games you dumbo. I cannot imagine this guy has anything to tell me about video games as an art form that I have not already considered myself.

A problem with video games is that it's essentially impossible for any sort of auteur video game to exist, since any video game with any sort of production quality requires a massive budget, which in turn requires it to have corporate aim, which in turn requires it to be not art.

But video games, as a medium, absolutely have the potential to be art, and they don't need to be high-concept "art" game malarkey to be such.

>> No.10699233

>>10699203
>A problem with video games is that it's essentially impossible for any sort of auteur video game to exist, since any video game with any sort of production quality requires a massive budget, which in turn requires it to have corporate aim, which in turn requires it to be not art.

He obliterated people like you a decade ago in his essays. You have no clue how far behind him you are until you read his work on the subject.

>> No.10699243

>>10698724
we didn’t have a discussion at all lol his acolytes just spammed the thread with whataboutisms and posturing nonsense

reporting the thread

>> No.10699782
File: 639 KB, 1000x1618, Virgin REI versus Chad Alex v3.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10699782

>> No.10699785

>>10699782
is icycalm the one on the right?

>> No.10699793

>>10699785
Yeah, dud...

>> No.10699803

>>10699793
damn he has a personality disorder

>> No.10699810

>>10699233
No he didn't. I stated a fact (AAA video games can rarely if ever be auteurist productions) followed by a claim about my own preferences (meritorious art is typified by individual expression). This is not a viewpoint susceptible to "obliteration". Either actually say something or leave, don't make handwaving gestures about your obscure "thinker"'s hypothetical refutation. Either reiterate these ideas you claim to understand or reference them. I am not going to read him because you mocked me into doing so when I could be reading literally anything else.

>> No.10700523
File: 30 KB, 1099x233, MM 182.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10700523

>>10698949
That's a compliment to one and an insult to the other
>>10698960
>mundus milleniallis has potential, but get's too top heavy with dialectic that hasn't been explored through normal language enough to merit it's own terminology
I don't see what you mean by this. To me many of the topics covered in Mundus have been discussed before quite extensively. There is a glossary if you don't understand a term or something; I find the way he uses language to be generally lucid, aside from having a higher vocabulary than myself.
>>10698961
I agree and disagree somewhat; the context around the works will change, but we have (a portion of) the text now. I think time will prove REI correct, and that it'll be easier to understand the how's and why's of his ideas in the aftermath, but I don't think the heroes who will actualize the changes he's talking about will gain more from the work than they can right now.

>> No.10700550

Mundus>>>Orgy

>> No.10700563

Go away Icy

>> No.10700743

>>10699810
>I am not going to read him
Your loss. That is not a fact, by the way - we already have many games that are art.

>> No.10701211

the virgin rei
>broken caps lock key, relegated to being an obnoxious tripfag on a public image board
the chad icy
>bans people who paid to post on his personal forum

>> No.10701345

>>10699810
Here is one idea, quote from icy:

>What a literary critic and a game critic look for in a plot are worlds apart. The literary critic is looking solely for depth of insight into the life of human beings – nothing less, and nothing more. The game critic, on the other hand, is looking for the bare minimum of a kind of atmospheric effect that sets up a scene. Into that scene slides the player, and all the rest is gaming.

He talks about so much — the importance of plot in games, in adventure games, on RPGs, on the "art games" category, the genealogy of genres, the nature of sequels, the problems of games journalism and criticism, the abuse of games (and art) for political / ulterior motives (basically, any form of criticism which has the goal not of improving the art itself), immersion, the role of hardware, the genealogy of cutscenes, the problems with the internet, metagaming, virtual reality, more strictly philosophical problems regarding criticism such as pluralism and the notion of independence, balance in game design, on how to properly analyze games, etc. And much more than this, three times as more at least. If you don't read his work on video games, you are absolutely, 100% out of date on your understanding of video games as an art form, even if you are a big player of many game genres and have been for decades.

>> No.10701566

>>10698724
Rei's good point is probably only as an example of what lies further on the path of the atomization of individuals.

>> No.10702019

Why are these two e-celebs constantly compared? Why do they never have separate threads? Is it so if anyone makes fun of their ideas shills can just accuse them of being a supporter of the other side?

>> No.10702050

>>10702019
there used to be constant orgyposting when it was updated more frequently
but rei and icycalm just both have the same sort of output format I guess

>> No.10702166

>>10702019
MM was created shortly after Orgy, using the same format as Orgy, and proposes a philosophy antithetical to Orgy's. That's why they are associated together.

>> No.10704006

So where does philosophy go from here? Do we just wait until the heroes of MM "actualize the good" or until the overman is created?

>> No.10704396

>>10704006

>>10704006

>So where does philosophy go from here?

probably nowhere.

>> No.10704517

>>10699086
>human sacrifice is bad

Pleb

>> No.10704585

I love watching the hatred for icy grow. I unironically expect people to start shoving their face full of fondue out of sheer resentment.

>> No.10704629

Has Rei ever discussed Icy?

Relevant Icy words
>.......The days of scientists and pseudo-scientists shutting thinking people up by spouting gibberish are over, and the reason for this is that shutting people up is a reactive move, while the active move is to lead people, and you can't lead anyone with gibberish (see one of my latest copy-cats, Mundus Millennialis, for a recent demonstration of that.......

>> No.10704651

>>10704006
>So where does philosophy go from here?
lol, dude, slow down. Neither of these guys are even finished writing.

>> No.10704788
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10704788

>>10704629
>Has Rei ever discussed Icy?

I don't think so. I think Rei follows the maxim: "Great people talk about ideas, average people talk about things, small people talk about other people."

>> No.10704813

>>10704788
>separation of people and ideas like a dualist pleb
Sounds about right.

>> No.10704827

>>10704813
It's not even that. He turned a basic question about whether Rei has anything to say about Icy (which would also mean if he has anything to say about his ideas) and used it as an opportunity to be venomous.

>> No.10704841

False dichotomy. They're both Slytherin.

>> No.10704863

>>10704841
>I have to reference Harry Potter to make sense of philosophical ideas
They're not by the way, Icy is Slytherin, REI is the none of the houses and all of them.

>> No.10704871

>>10704863
I haven't read Hairy Potty, isn't that the guy that looks dark and brooding but turns out to be a real nigga?

>> No.10704885
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10704885

>>10704871
yes, the dark brooding guy is actually a real nigger

>> No.10704923

>>10704517
He doesn't actually claim that though, I'd assume he's bringing it up as an example of something that the 'subhumans' would find obviously disagreeable.

>> No.10705260

Icy on complaining. Relevant for us internet denizens.

>201. It is precisely because complaining pays, in every sense of the word, that it has become so popular. In the jungle there's no complaining precisely because no one pays attention to it. Our tendency to reward complaining has created more complainers. If we started punishing it instead, we'd end up with far less

>329. Complaining as an evolutionary phenomenon. Supreme fact: no complaining in the jungle. Complaining a deeply reactive behavior since it presupposes others TO WHOM one can complain.

>333. The quickest way for a subhuman to stop being addicted to complaining is to cut off all ties with his friends. But even that will not work today, since he'll just go on the internet and complain to strangers instead

>494. The theory that complaining is proportional to the amount of displeasure is erroneous. Modern subhumans have more energy and more time to put into complaining precisely because their lives are more comfortable than those of their ancestors. The forest ants have it worse than anyone and never utter a single complaint. Medieval serfs complained far less than modern ones simply because their work was back breaking and they had no time for it. Rest was relaxation, not spamming online blogs and message boards with whining. The true mechanics of complaining are far more complex than that. Complaining is proportional to the COMFORTABLENESS of life combined with a lack of goals. And it is precisely lack of goals that creates comfortableness. The life of an Olympic athlete is also comfortable, in a sense (in the sense that he doesn't have to scrounge every day for bare sustenance), but if he spends half the day under insane physical stress, his free time will necessary be taken up by relaxation, not by uttering profanities and vomiting hatred at everything that moves. There is simply no place for that sort of thing in a busy life, which is to say one with direction, etc. No place for demonstrating, or for scribbling endless pages against the "imperialism" of America, the "greed" of corporations, the "lies" of politicians, the "conceit" of the upper classes, the "hypocrisy" of the clergy, and so on and so forth — which is to say, the normal and correct way in which all these highly successful groups have been conducting their affairs for centuries, and which no amount of resentment can change (it is indeed this success that engendered this resentment, so the idea that the resentment by itself can change its own cause is farcical, and could only be taken seriously by pseudo-intellectuals, which are themselves a part of it).

>> No.10705280

>>10705260
he is a scientifically illiterate nigger

>> No.10705760

Why is it always the same guy orgyposting? It's always promoting it as the second coming of Jesus, from a mentally ill Greek who scammed old people on ebay

>> No.10707213

>>10705280
What about those passages makes you think he's scientifically illiterate?

>> No.10708644
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10708644

This supersedes them both.

>> No.10708732
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10708732

Is this suppossed to be the black sun?

>> No.10709209

>>10708732
No, it's a symbol representing Sofia.

>> No.10709386

>>10709209
Who’s Sofia?

>> No.10710245

>>10709386
very generally the personification of wisdom, for more specific info just ctrl-f sofia on mundus millennialis

>> No.10710254

>>10710245
shut the fuck up
>>10709386
you need to die

>> No.10710261
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10710261

>>10710254
rudeposters get the f*g out

>> No.10710264

>>10709386
The female part of creation, the other side being demiurge or death.

I mean feminine in form, not gender btw.

>> No.10710577

Since the subject of Sophia came up I have a prompt for advocates of Rei.

When he talks about and the rest of his metaphysics is this a purely psychological reality: Like Jung and his discuss of Sophia as being a psychological reality in the form of the anima? Or are we talking actual metaphysics, that there actually is are 'other realities' inhabited by metaphysical beings? He doesn't seem to want to give a clear answer.

From what I have skimmed of his text the answer seems to gravitate towards a belief in the latter.

>> No.10710646
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10710646

>>10710577
It's both. The metaphysical manifests within the cosmos through the psychological. At and after the "ultimate revelation" the metaphysical will be able to manifest itself within the cosmos directly.

>> No.10710774

>>10710646
Reminds me of how people still waiting for Jesus to come and fix everything for them in the second coming.

>> No.10710802

>>10710774
How so?

>> No.10710813

>>10701345
Why do you think I need this guy to tell me about any of these things? Why are my own thoughts on these topics not sufficient? Why would my own opinions on such topics not be better formed by reading more historically relevant writers, who are not obviouslyblinded by their egos and loaded with false supposituons? Are there not more discerning and inquisitive and genuine modes of thought available to me concerning art which I could then apply to my own experience of these facets of the video game medium?

What I have seen of icycalm's writing has been extremist and lacking nuance in nature. Much more is needed in convincing me he is a thinker of any real merit beyond his own arrogance.

>> No.10710841

>>10701345
Moreover, with your closing sentence, you assume that these topics which he touches on are topics which no other has touched on on his own. This is false. I have considered most, if not all, of these facets of videogame-as-art at times past, presumablyb with greater depth and sensitivity than this man - for me to feel compelled to value his viewpoint above my own I would have to consider him a more intelligent and insightful human than myself.

Perhaps out of my own arrogance i do not do such a thing. But i would rather think it a lack of evidence. Sure maybe i have not written a long interdisciplinary pseudophilosophilical manifesto. I would say this is due to some vague shred of humility which i possess.

Essentially, why should i commit time to the musings of a man for which I have no evidence towards the superiority over myself concerning topics which I have my own, preexisting & rather sufficent musings? Aren't there many men i know to be better than I to listen to instead? I have only one life to live. Why should i care about this egotistical pseud?

>> No.10710883

>>10710802
It deals with the concept of how you get elevated.

Icy discusses here in his usual "edgy" tone

>121. And just as the weak creature inserts God wherever it feels its weakness, the strong creature inserts itself wherever it feels its strength, and ultimately in itself. To believe so much in oneself as to become one's own religion. And people think that I am an atheist. I am not an atheist, I am God.

Concepts of divinity that view it as something totally outside yourself, something that will eventualy come to you and save you or lift you up: this is the perspective a weak person would take. The reverse is true for putting divinity inside yourself, as a function of one's psychology for instance.

>>10710813
I know no "historical relevant writers" you would use as an alternative; no other names anyone even remembers. So he has no competition icycalm in game theory. It's absurd if you think about what that implies: 'game theory' is icycalm.

>> No.10710935

>>10710813
>Why do you think I need this guy to tell me about any of these things?
Because I have read him and discovered that he knows what he's talking about.

>Why would my own opinions on such topics not be better formed by reading more historically relevant writers
Because he has already done that groundwork. You may not reach the same understanding of him, though. So you have two reasons to read him right there: either to see what he uncovered in his studies, or, at the very least, to see how they measure against what you uncovered. Regardless, he's written an incredible amount on the subject, and he's also played and reviewed tons of games, which is the most critical element to forming an understanding about them.

>Much more is needed in convincing me he is a thinker of any real merit beyond his own arrogance.
You need more "convincing" just to go and read something of his? Why are you on the literature board?

>>10710841
>I have considered most, if not all, of these facets of videogame-as-art at times past, presumablyb with greater depth and sensitivity than this man
Share your writings on them then. You can say this shit all you want, it doesn't matter if you have nothing to show for it.

>Essentially, why should i commit time to the musings of a man for which I have no evidence towards the superiority over myself concerning topics which I have my own, preexisting & rather sufficent musings?
You literally can only answer that question by fucking reading him. In what world is this not the case for any author ever? What the fuck, man.

>> No.10711208
File: 557 KB, 1400x933, Nicosia.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10711208

>>10708732
>>10698724
It looks like a starfort.

>> No.10711344

>>10710813
>hurr i'm smurt so I don't have to read him because I don't like him
it would probably take you like twenty minutes to find and read three essays he's written

>> No.10712613

>>10711344
Not him but I did and it's unredeemable drivel.

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