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/lit/ - Literature


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10487145 No.10487145 [Reply] [Original]

best books on contemporary art?

>> No.10487153

>>10487145
Walter Benjamin's "The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction"

>> No.10487180

>>10487153
No

>> No.10487185

>>10487180
??

>> No.10487189

>>10487180
>>10487153
Not that anon, but that work of Benjamin is absolutely necessary reading to talk about any modern or contemporary art, even if it precedes contemporary works. It's entry level stuff that you can't go without reading.

>> No.10487198
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10487198

>>10487185
>inb4 culdural marxism!!

>> No.10487200
File: 270 KB, 270x403, on-the-genealogy-of-art-games-small.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10487200

Don't let the title fool you, it explores more about art than you've probably considered about it in your life altogether.

>> No.10487319

>>10487145
Art Since 1900
The Originality of the Avant-Garde and Other Modernist Myths
The Anti-Aesthetic
Postmodernism or the Cultural Logic of Late Capitalism
Image-Music-Text

>> No.10487333
File: 14 KB, 260x400, 22257097.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10487333

read this 50 page book op

>>10487319
I like these recommendations but oh god how much i hate the october clique rending of the french theory writing style ! art since 1900 (esp. vol 2) nauseates me so much.

>> No.10487334

>>10487319
who are you?

>> No.10487342

>>10487334
Most people who read theory. None of those books are obscure

>> No.10487344

>>10487334
My name is Frank and I live in Seattle

>> No.10487346

>>10487334
I'm Josephine, I'm a french librarian who enjoys contemporary art, nice to meet you.

>> No.10487383

>>10487346
Post pussy

>> No.10487548

>>10487334
those are all canonical texts, friend

>> No.10488039
File: 277 KB, 860x1200, 81m+6xJu3XL.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10488039

>>10487145

>> No.10488047

>>10488039
>written by a woman
>defends modern art

Into the trash it goes

>> No.10488070

>>10487145
Why is contemporary art so based, bros?

>> No.10488072

>>10488047
>jabs at art they couldn't make
>post about it on /lit/

Into the trash it goes

>> No.10488123

>>10488072
I actually studied Art History modules in University. I've been to the Guggenheim, the Met, Tate modern.
I know my Warhols, my Rothko's and my Hirsts. I can talk the talk and could write an honors grade dissertation on any artist. But its all bullshit, its a self perpetuating pseudo-discourse which is ultimately founded on nothing. Barely above the status of high fashion in its absurdity and pantomime.
The only true artists of worth in the last half century were Lucien Freud and Francis Bacon. The rest in the visual canon are simply self conscious clowns at best or at worst cynical monsters (premier example Hirst)

>> No.10488134

>>10488123
protip: you're clueless

>>10488070
because it's next level shit

>> No.10488140

>>10488123

Not even Picasso?

>> No.10488143

>>10488134
>protip: you're clueless

The lowly charlatan, pressed into a corner, reverts to claiming secret knowledge he conveniently can't express

>> No.10488145

>>10488123
You're such a fucking pleb. I bet you aren't even from New York.

>> No.10488149

>>10488143
I've studied in a University. I've been in art galleries.

>> No.10488154

>>10488140
I was talking about postmodern art. I love Picasso

>> No.10488156

>>10488149
You just claimed to be able to write an honors grad dissertation on any artist.

Just reminding you.

>> No.10488161

>>10488156
Write something about Duchamp.

>> No.10488163

>>10488149
Yet you can't make an argument.
My biggest problem with post-modern art is discourse has completely superseded the immanent experience. Have you honestly ever viewed one of the recent greats and experienced their works remotely akin to their official narratives in academia? Its a ludicrous situation

>> No.10488186

>>10488161
'Duchamp in his seminal work spearheads the attempt to grapple with Europes crisis of consciousness following the first World War provokes a revolutionary upheavel in sculpture as he reverses the relationship between middle class industrial consumption and bourgeois art. In this essay I will be exploring the relationship between his work and the standardization of military munitions as reflected in French and English literature.'

>> No.10488189

>>10488186

God I would flunk you so hard.

>> No.10488201

>>10488189
You might and Id deserve it but the average examiner wouldn't. They're stupid as fuck

>> No.10488235

>>10488149
>>10488123
if this was still 2011 i'd post that picture with watch out we've got a badass over here written on it
having been to three art galleries and done a module on art history just so you can get some credits and gawp at the girls in the class doesn't make you an expert

>> No.10488252

>>10487383
Post modern

>> No.10488266

>>10488163

>>10488161

>> No.10488279

>>10488235
My believe is there are no experts in this area. I have a ton of respect for genuine art historians and critics who have an authentic engagement and knowledge of works but when it comes to post-modern pieces there just simply isn't anything there except a convenient vacuum to get a shot at tenure. Its all office politics

>> No.10488287

>>10488279
>My believe is there are no experts in this area
this is true. no one knows what's happening right now.

>> No.10488294

>>10488047
>not defending fontana
brainlet

>> No.10488323

>>10488201

You seem to actually think you're special because you figured out how to bullshit your way through essay form.

Essays aren't a tool for tricking people into thinking you have something of substance to say. People who write this way are huxters that lead anyone unfortunate enough to read them astray.

Matey if you don't change your attitude it's gonna be a hard, long life.

>> No.10488364
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10488364

>>10488323
>Essays aren't a tool for tricking people into thinking you have something of substance to say. People who write this way are huxters that lead anyone unfortunate enough to read them astray.

Many people make lucrative careers from exactly this though. I don't respect it or want to be part of that game but its there.
It seems to be to be an economic fact that there's money to be made in telling people any piece of junk is valuable and there's nothing to be made in telling the truth.

>>10488287
The only thing that makes me curious is how the art world is going to learn to deal with internet imagery and memes. The current attitude seems to just be to act as if it doesn't exist but this can't last especially with how incredibly powerful image bases discourse has become.

>> No.10488372

>>10488364

Truth is the last fucking thing anyone on earth wants to hear.

>> No.10488482

>>10488364
>The current attitude seems to just be to act as if it doesn't exist
maybe it's because there's no money or fame in it

>> No.10488521
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10488521

>>10488364
>The only thing that makes me curious is how the art world is going to learn to deal with internet imagery and memes.
it remains to be seen if it has any lasting importance. also, the most suitable repository for internet art is the internet itself, so it is unlike that e.g. giant prints of pepe the frog will reside next to turner seascapes on gallery walls. but i have seen a few exhibitions about "protest art" etc recently and some memes would possibly fit that description so who knows.
however recognition of digital art is growing. last year i went to the david hockney exhibition at the tate modern. hockney mainly works on an ipad now and they had large screens showing his ipad works.
there is also an ongoing project, project pericles. that looks at how to preserve "time based art" including digital media
and later this year at the v&a there will be an exhibition about the art of videogames

>> No.10488524

>>10488039
>modern art explained
>photograph depicts a piece by Lucio Fontana, a contemporary artist

>> No.10488551
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10488551

>>10488521
giv books recs

>> No.10488560

On the Necessity of Art's Exit from Contemporary Art

>> No.10488570

>>10488521
>lasting importance
why the need for this criteria?

>> No.10488589
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10488589

>>10488521
To me its less of a matter of technology as much as culture. Pepe the frog may not belong in a museum but there has to be some attempt to describe what the fuck is Pepe anyway. It not literally, in a parralel sense. I suppose that's what I mean about the role of art in this area, I want to see artists trying to elucidate or expand on these strange emerging ways we're communicating and identifying ourselves and our conflicts. Not the medium itself but why certain strange images and ideas are so provocative

>> No.10488601
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10488601

>>10488551
i don't tend to read general books about modern art movements except the occasional one like >>10488039 which unfortunately seems to have drawn a few wilfully ignorant goons out of the woodwork like >>10488524
however will gompertz did a good overview book not long ago, pic related
usually i just read books about individual artists or exhibitions
but the best way to understand art is to go and see it. i live not far from london so i have some of the world's best galleries available to me. i'm a member at some of them and i go to all the exhibitions. i went to the modigliani exhibition a couple of weeks ago and i had mixed feelings about it.

>> No.10488612
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10488612

>>10488601
>recommendation from the Guardian

>> No.10488619

internet art is what comes after postmodern art

>> No.10488623

>>10488619
God help us all

>> No.10488631

>>10488623
steve jobs is modern day picasso

>> No.10488637

>>10488631
>>10488619
and this is the future, boys. not hockney and his ipad, lol

>> No.10488639

>>10488570
for physical art, because the amount of art that has been created throughout history greatly exceeds the amount of space in the world's art galleries. not everything can be, or should be, preserved. there are many other reasons but as it is 3am here i don't really want to write a dissertation.

of course this does not necessarily apply if digital art is stored entirely digitally. but some criteria still need to be applied so that future generations can filter out stuff that has no importance. if i draw a cock and balls in windows paint and post it here, it may be preserved indefinitely one one of those weird archive sites that copy 4chan threads but it doesn't mean it should have the same importance attached to it as say a steve mccurry photograph

it does make me wonder what future generations will think of all the billions of duckface selfies posted to instagram

>> No.10488652
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10488652

>>10488612
u r a dum dum

>> No.10488653

>>10488601
>wilfully ignorant goons
the only one ignorant of the distinction between 'modern' and 'contemporary' seems to be you

>> No.10488654

>>10488652
Ew. This is why I ordered the blue cover even though I'm in Europe

>> No.10488660

>>10488653
Only sophomore pseuds get autistic about this. Knowledgeable people accept the ambigious common use of "modern"

>> No.10488670

>>10488660
'Modern' in that ambiguous sense is used solely in the domain of pop-criticism publications aimed at laymen, like the ones you posted.

>> No.10488680

>>10488670
I'm a different dude than who posted that. But yeah it looks like a dumbass book

>> No.10488695

>>10488670
please indicate in what way you are not a "layman"

>> No.10488710

>>10488695
he's an ipad artist

>> No.10488725

>>10488695
I'm fairly well-read in contemporary art theory and criticism. those books are written for those who are not

>> No.10488736

>>10488725
>I'm fairly well-read in contemporary art theory and criticism

why do you care for that shit?

>> No.10488737

>>10488725
What would be your recommendation?

>> No.10488794

>>10488725
you're still a layman
and goodness me you're an awful pseud too

>> No.10488810

>>10488794
sure thing, modernpleb

>> No.10488905

So what is not art?

>> No.10490160

>>10487145
Crisis of the modern world by Rene Guenon

>> No.10490193
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10490193

>>10488123
>Barely above the status of high fashion in its absurdity and pantomime
Oh anon we need to have a SERIOUS talk

>> No.10490227

>>10488619
It may still be art, but we will have finally lost the final remnants of imbuement of human soul and spirit, how sad. The last truly human art movements were the Abstract Expressionists and the School of London. The painting is a physical embodiment of pure human expression, motion, emotion. The painting is sculptural and powerful. Digital 'art' doesn't even begin to compare; It is emotionless and sterile.

>> No.10490238

>>10490193
kanye is that you?

>> No.10490322

>>10487145
Why is contemporary art so often "dude its like,,, [popular thing] but big/funny coloured/abstracted lmao"

>> No.10490402

>>10488123
>The only true artists of worth in the last half century were Lucien Freud and Francis Bacon.

Not even Euan Uglow or Jonathan Wateridge?

>> No.10490404

Video art and VR are the next step forward

>> No.10490417

whats the point on reading about visual art when it's so difficult to have some sort of tangible access to it? sure i can google the artists name and see .png of their work, but it just seems so... out of context. i live in nowhere. there are no galleries here. i wish i could read about all this shit but i sense my investment will signifiy venturing into a rather elusive world

>> No.10490424

>>10487334
My name is John and I live in Toronto, I study mathematics, and enjoy literature and promoting Marxism in my free time.

>> No.10490433
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10490433

>>10488123
Hey, I kinda like Hirst

>> No.10490605

>>10487145
If you want something to watch for a bit there are three really good BBC series which you can find on YouTube on art.

Civilisation, it’s a 13 part series on the history of western culture, focusing at lot on art and architecture. It’s notable for its very conservative and traditional, extremely British point of view. It’s a not unreasonable primer to get up to the present.

The Shock of the New, is an 8 episode exploration of the history of Modern Art, from the birth of Impressionism to the end of pop art. Being the BBC it’s also pretty conservative in tone, but pretty widely regarded as being high quality.


Ways of Seeing, a Four Part series made with an explicitly Marxist point of view, with the goal of showing how various works of art embed ideology and structures of power in society.

All three of these are well regarded, and on YouTube so if you’ve got the time, watch them. All these have companion books also.

>> No.10490630
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10490630

Not only interesting for beginners but also for those looking for comprehensible and well written contemporary art critique.

>> No.10490632

>>10488163
You should check out Arthur Danto. He’s written extensively to develop your main point there, but with a bit more positive disposition. His basic thesis is that art history ‘ended’, in the Hegelian sense, after art objects became indistinguishable from non-art objects, apart from the fact of being located in a gallery. He locates the last work of art in Art History of Andy Warhol’s Brillo Boxes. After this he sees art as having converged with philosophy, meaning that art IS academic discourse, and the creation of new aesthetic objects is basically just decoration.

>> No.10490654
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10490654

>>10490630
cool cover. i saw that harrier and jaguar installation at tate britain a couple of years ago. it was incredible.

>> No.10490657

>>10490433
i like hirst too but you could have at least chosen the decomposing cow head

>> No.10490676

>>10490654
>a couple of years ago
i just looked it up and it was 2010-2011. fucking hell. time flies
also it turns out the planes were (probably) just sold for scrap afterwards. shame really

>> No.10490686

>>10490433
Alfons Schilling did it cooler

>> No.10490693

>>10490632
I have considered this idea but I find it frankly disgusting. The role of art is to transcend and shatter discourse. The situation you're speaking of says to me "The bad guys won"

>> No.10490715

>>10490632
georges didi-huberman oeuvre btfo danto amongst others so hard its not even funny

>> No.10490863

>>10490715
give me the basic gestalt

>> No.10491356

>>10487180
nice book retard

>> No.10491371

>>10487145
Defining Contemporary Art
25 Years in 200 Pivotal Artworks
Phaidon

>> No.10491381

>>10487334
i am you

>> No.10491393

>>10488070
drukqs

>> No.10491408

>>10487200
all my uncomfortable borderline nightmare dreams are about icycalm these days
I can't take this anymore

>> No.10491441
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10491441

>>10488123
i'm with you
not sure i'd spare Freud or Bacon tho
>>10487145
try these OP:
The Invention of Art: A Cultural History (2001) Dr. Larry Shiner

The Mating Mind: How Sexual Choice Shaped the Evolution of Human Nature (2000)
Geoffrey F. Miller
https://ontherapyaspse.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/geoffrey-miller-the-mating-mind.pdf

>> No.10491448

ITT: Reasons why the West is falling. Cultural stagnation will be our downfall.

>> No.10491455

>>10488186
>the relationship between his work and the standardization of military munitions
????

>> No.10491467

>>10488372
true

>> No.10491481

>>10488521
does david hockney also post on /ic/?

>> No.10491490

>>10488589
>there has to be some attempt to describe what the fuck is Pepe anyway
i saw an exhibition called 'Hacktivism' in Paris in the 90's doing just that

>> No.10491492

>>10491448
There's no cultural stagnation, it's just a crappy thread. Unless by "our" you mean this board.

>> No.10491510

>>10487145

sometimes i think the air max 97 looks cool, sometimes i think it's trash. idk

>> No.10491515

>>10488639
>the billions of duckface selfies posted to instagram
just think about contemporary pornography in future history manuals
nxtlvl

>> No.10491567
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10491567

>> No.10491581

>>10488660
these 'knowledgeable people' are wrong then because the correct term is 'contemporary'

>> No.10491588

>>10488905
/pol/

>> No.10491591

>>10491581
>the correct term is 'contemporary'
you sound so confident but you also sound so wrong. im seriously questioning myself

>> No.10491594

>>10490322
is the word you are looking for 'representation'?

>> No.10491615

>>10490404
if you're stuck in the last millenium, maybe
AR is where it's at this week

>> No.10491624

>>10490605
this

>> No.10491633

>>10490693
The radio said “No, John. You are the bad guys”

>> No.10491646

>>10491591
>im seriously questioning myself
a-are you an artist?

>> No.10491663

>>10491441
>not sure i'd spare Freud
that's because you have a shit taste

>> No.10491675

>>10491481
has hockney ever bitched about cultural marxism as the reason why no one takes his gook cartoon drawings seriously?

>> No.10491690

>>10491663
the art world must burn

>> No.10491692

>>10490605
i've seen all of it. awesome stuff.

>> No.10491707

>>10488905
>So what is not art?

art

>> No.10491711

I fucking hate European/American/Occidental post-WW2 art. It's so goddamn spiritless, like it doesn't even fucking bother.

Heard someone say that "all the best ones were made for God", guess he was right.

>> No.10491712

Anything by Hal Foster

>> No.10491836

>>10487319
Are any of these approachable to a layman? I've taken a few basic art history classes in university some years ago, but haven't read much about art.

>> No.10491839

>not one mention of Aesthetic Theory of Adorno
It is a foreword for the current state of art.

>> No.10491858

>>10491707
indeed
art is meta-art

>> No.10491862

>>10491711
blame the nazis

>> No.10491871

>>10491862
Germans/French/Brits need to carry that weight.
First it was Germans and French, then Germans+French+Brits, and then another round of G+F+B.

>> No.10491880

>>10491871
what are you gonna do about it?
whine on 4chan?
quick get some play dough and make a baby jesus!

>> No.10491887

>>10491880
I'm going to laugh as EU crashes and burns. Fuck the West Europe.

>> No.10491891

All the postmodern art project ended with relational aesthetics.

>> No.10491897

>>10491891
Relational has been in art since the innovation of perspective somewhere around year 1000 though? What do you mean by your post?

>> No.10491914
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10491914

>>10487145
>>>/ic/

>> No.10491924

>>10491897
That this post is art dummy

>> No.10491927
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10491927

>>10491914
dude that's pretty fucking bad painting

>> No.10491955

>>10491567
but that's contemporary art, not modern

>>10491836
>Are any of these approachable to a layman
it depends how much you're willing to put into it. they are written for academic audiences and assume some previous level of engagement with post-war (especially French) philosophy and critical theory. you'd still likely be able to understand what Jameson and Barthes are essentially saying even if some of the contextual nuance is lost

>> No.10491984
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10491984

>>10487145

>> No.10491985

>>10491887
>>>/pol/

>> No.10492001

>>10491891
>relational aesthetics
not really, the guy also wrote 'post production' and 'radicant' if memory serves

>> No.10492012

>>10491891
>relational aesthetics
i remember watching a documentary on this shit. it was cringeworthy as fuck.

>> No.10492025
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10492025

Art is cool, guys

>> No.10492213

read Dantho Arthur

>> No.10492329

>>10491914
>>>/ic/ is a TOTAL shitfest, catering entirely to 'concept' art and game 'art'. It's a real shame really, it would be nice to have a space to discuss art here that is equivalent to /lit/.

>> No.10492345

>>10492329
>it would be nice to have a space to discuss art here that is equivalent to /lit/.
good grief no
one board filled with massive pseuds is enough

>> No.10492352

>>10492329
What is art

>> No.10492354

>>10490402
>Jonathan Wateridge
such garbage

>> No.10492382

>>10492329
kek
make a thread on >>>/his/ and see how it flies

>> No.10492499

>>10488631
In what way? I don't get it.

>> No.10492505

>>10492499
Picasso was a debauchee and famed critic of his peers while practicing nothing he preached.

>> No.10492514
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10492514

>>10492505
thanks

>> No.10492526

>>10492499
you don't need to get it, it just works

>> No.10492527
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10492527

>>10492505
>he pays to post
>posts arent even good

>> No.10492528

>>10492514
I can't concede to a dexterous wit like that, man.

>> No.10492534

>>10487383
Post pussy, after dick

>> No.10492536

>>10492526
It doesn't, it's a hollow metaphor idiots think is impressive.

>> No.10492543

>>10492536
post pussy

>> No.10492547
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10492547

>>10492543

>> No.10492695

>>10492012
link?

>> No.10493798

>>10488123
Holy shit an actual opinion. I like guys like Rothko and Twombly though, being an American. Any decent books on Bacon or Freud you recommend.

>> No.10493822

>>10488123
>I know my Warhols, my Rothko's and my Hirsts.
Is that supposed to be an achievement?

>> No.10494035

>>10488123

Freud and Bacon intentionally painted portraits of fat, ugly, ungainly hideous men though, in which there is no such thing as a catharsis, or "deeper beauty", etc. The simple mood of a Rothko, which does not force us to look at some fat man's turgid dick, is preferable and your opinion is invalid.

>> No.10494399

>>10492528
have a (You)
now, fuck off

>> No.10494409

>>10493798
try these:

The Bacon Cookbook: More than 150 Recipes from Aroud the World for Everyone's Favorite Food

From Freud to Jung: A Comparative Study of the Psychology of the Unconscious (C. G. Jung Foundation Books)

>> No.10494415

>>10494035
>in which there is no such thing as a catharsis, or "deeper beauty", etc
are you the same guy who unironically recommended those evo psych books

>> No.10494514
File: 596 KB, 2000x1300, hb_2000.272.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10494514

>>10494415
not the same guy
come on, Geoffrey Miller is cool

>> No.10494548
File: 616 KB, 3707x2447, EP-310149731.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10494548

>>10487145
>2018
>books
¿¿¿
http://whtsnxt.net/000

>> No.10494612

>>10494514
Tacky derivative kitsch shit

>> No.10494625

>>10494612
tacky derivative kitsch shit is the new black, anon
also
>doesn't know richard prince

>> No.10494635

Reading through this thread is like listening to a babble of preteen girls ague why HP and the hunger games are superior to Joyce and the like because “muhhh modern/pomo is shit and I don’t understand what I talking about”. What a bunch of parochial wankers.

>> No.10494642

>>10494625
>doesn't know sam abell either

>> No.10494645

>>10494635
>doesn't like listening to a babble of preteen girls
wtf is wrong with you dude?

>> No.10494650

>>10494645
Oh sure, I never said I didn’t like it. It is depressing to constantly see the poverty of art and art history education in action though.

>> No.10494671

>>10494650
what are you gonna do about it, faggot?
whine on the interwebz?

>> No.10494692

>>10487145
Remix: Making Art and Commerce Thrive in the Hybrid Economy

>> No.10494775

>>10494692
Knowledge and manipulation of multi-media technologies is the current generation's form of "literacy"- what reading and writing was to the previous.
It is the vernacular of today.
The children growing up in a world where these technologies permeate their daily life are unable to comprehend why "remixing" is illegal.

>> No.10495175

>>10487200
hi icy! I didn't know you posted here.

>> No.10495180

>>10491356
Kill yourself, you spoonfed brainlet faggot

>> No.10495289

>>10488123
My dude you took fucking MODULES, but judging from what you're namedropping you took like two and didn't pay a lot of attention. Also, for you to dismiss people like Duchamp, Beuys or the 60s late modernist groups while claiming for a "visual canon" only goes to show how much of a fucking pleb you are.

>> No.10495306

>>10488364
>. The current attitude seems to just be to act as if it doesn't exist
Pretensely fucking false. I don't know where you're studying but you should tell your professors the visual arts progressed beyond painting a long time ago, there's a lot of work (both artistic and theoretic) being written on Digital Art and I know for a fact there are a bunch of people studying memes in their relation to contemporary art in my backwater third world city, so I doubt there isn't anyone else in the world doing this.

>> No.10495432

>>10491862
This but unironically. Academics drew a direct line from romanticism to Nazism, where Nazism is the direct result of overindulgence in sentiment, and a fondness for irrational mysticism among other things. In art music you see a total retreat from any sort of attempt to “express” and the immediate post-War period is dominated by music which in which the process is that interesting idea. The artist is as self-effacing as possible, and the music isn’t even made for an audience, as Babbitt so controversially said. The whole idea of the artist as “genius” is a romantic notion which there was a flight from. Already in the Soviet Union there was an attempt to remake the artist as engineer, not as singular genius but as a skilled, trained, practiced craftsman, and it was this mode of thought which produced the great filmmakers of the early 20s. The west was merely catching up to this notion in an attempt to rid itself of any possibility of fascist repetition. Of course the sterile, expressionless, and essentially unlistenable music this era produced quickly led into minimalism, and few major examples from that period have survived as things anybody today want to listen to.

>> No.10495451

>>10495180
>spoonfed
>4chan

>> No.10495457

>>10495306
THIS

>> No.10495458

>>10495432
For a great take on this idea listen to this song, I just got into the NBT after years without listening to them and I fucking love it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZpdBPggPv8

>> No.10495465

>>10495432
I AM NEVER IRONIC

>> No.10495506

>>10495432
Final nail on the coffin was when Joseph Beuys, Conceptual Occultist Nazi Extraordinaire said: 'Everyone is an artist lmao!'

>> No.10495874

>>10495306
Painting is making a massive comeback in retaliation to the soulless digital arts, idiot.

>> No.10496042

>>10490404
At the last festival of animation in my city they actually had some VR art installations(?). I should try to see them this year if they will be on the programe.

>> No.10496069

>>10495874
Painting never went away, digital art isn't soulless, you're just some outraged cunt who's part of the saltiest crowd to ever grace the art world. Computers exist and are a part of life, there's no reason art shouldn't discuss it's effects and potentialities within human existence.

>> No.10496182

>>10496069
Oh sure, there’s certainly a place for commentary on the effects of computers and digital media on society, I never said anything of the contrary. But art made by purely digital means IS soulless. It contains none of the artists touch, none on the soul. It is not physical or tangible. Computers are innately inhuman, digital media (especially social media) has been robbing us of our spirit; art made by such means is equivalently soulless. I’m not denying digital art isn’t art, but I’m yet to see any digital art that can be considered ‘good art’.

>> No.10496193

>>10490227
lol, ur just a frilly victorian LARPER

>> No.10496452

>>10496182
you sound spooked as fuck

>> No.10496497

>>10496069
>salty
completely exposed

>> No.10496519
File: 111 KB, 500x392, le_nazi_landscape.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10496519

Why is art reduced to a commentary on things?

>> No.10496569

>>10496519
Because things are the whole and art's its expression.

>> No.10496606
File: 16 KB, 236x297, 2c7745275d1c06f2bd1817bdf4a8c3f2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10496606

>>10496569
There is something i dont like about that description desu.

>> No.10496609

>>10496452
No, I’m just not a nihilistic faggot who has spent time developing a personal understanding of art through study and my own studio practice.

>> No.10496625

>>10495506
Beuys is great, no contemporary art compares

>> No.10496636

>>10496625
beuys is duchamp's little bitch

>> No.10496675

>>10496636
At least he wasnt a crossdresser.

>> No.10496679

>>10496675
he had no imagination for such thing

>> No.10496770

>>10494775
do you recommend the book?

>> No.10496781

>>10496182
get a load of this pleb
i come here to laugh at retards like you desu

>> No.10496791

>>10496625
any paleolithic shaman does tho

>> No.10496799

>>10496609
So, let me guess, you're just a nihilistic faggot who has spent time developing a personal understanding of fuckall through shitposting and the smell of his own farts?

>> No.10496807

>>10496781
come on please at least give a serious rebuttal anon

>> No.10496809
File: 349 KB, 945x1000, dude_2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10496809

>>10496770
books are gay
read this:
http://whtsnxt.net/000

>> No.10496812

>>10487319
Oh god more please

>> No.10496821

>>10496807
i never argue with stupid
or anybody who uses 'ironic' quotation marks, for that matter
also >>10496809

>> No.10496831

>>10496809
i hate reading
summarize what's next

>> No.10496837

Fine art is mostly rich people (how else would you make a skull covered in diamonds) making work that is either a vapid waste of money or is supposed to be a commentary on an issue they are ultimately estranged to, only to be seen by other people of their social status who will view it at a gallery, a space separate from reality and especially the people the work is about. They'll cluck and swoon over it holding a drink, only lazily being aware and educated on the subject without doing anything to change the status quo. How quaint, basically. I Certainly know about pollution in China, or something like that.

Fine arts schools are full of CEO's children, Overseas Trustfunds, the like. There is very little quality control because concept comes before the work, which would be fine if it wasn't a few gems buried in a sea of repetitive trash. Concept is essential, but it's ultimately vapid if you are making a statement that will only be experienced by people who pretend to give a shit for brownie points. To make matters worse artist's statements are pumped with flowery, unintelligible sentences to mask the simple fact that they just wanted to paint vaginas.

That's all you need to know, really.

>> No.10496840

>>10496770
as we used to say back in the 21st century:
'let me google that for you'
here:
https://archive.org/stream/LawrenceLessigRemix/Remix-o.txt

>> No.10496846

>>10496837
Im going to artschool next year.
Any advice?

>> No.10496847

>>10496831
remix culture
and fags like you

>> No.10496856

>>10496846
suck dick and get your dick sucked

>> No.10496858
File: 571 KB, 650x487, 1491276744147.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10496858

>>10496837
kek

>> No.10496861

>>10496847
but this is already happening

>> No.10496865

>>10496846
don't

>> No.10496868

>>10496846
Really depends on what you're going for. If you're one of those people going to a vocational art school to Damn Well Do animation/storyboarding/etc I can't help you. I just know they're competitive as fuck

If you're attending a fine arts school don't get swept up in the bullshit. Pick your battles. If you hate a class and all you have to do to pass it is blow your nose in a tissue and turn it in, just do that, instead of trying to be The Absolute Best, look, I wove my tissue from SILK-- don't bother unless the prof seems like they'll get you places later. Make work where it counts. I didn't get connections out of art school because I was shy and couldn't do the teacher's pet thing. I'd see people getting connections from profs by buddying up with them but I have no advice on how to do that.

For the record I dropped out in the middle of my fourth year. Glad I didn't rack up more debt.

>> No.10496872

>>10496865
too late senpai

>> No.10496875

>>10496861
so what?

>> No.10496882

>>10496872
well, sorry about that
what's your plan?

>> No.10496900

>>10496875
i was promised whats next not whats now

>> No.10496935
File: 24 KB, 679x679, 1515108401001.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10496935

>>10496868
Its fine arts.
My plan is to focus on painting.

>> No.10496942

>>10496935
painting is dead

>> No.10496949
File: 39 KB, 640x640, 1514732496001.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10496949

>>10496942
I dont give a shit

>> No.10496964

>>10496900
nothing is next
endless present
high tech solipsism
the end of history
http://hummedia.manchester.ac.uk/schools/soss/politics/research/workingpapers/mancept/RecyclingTimeandEndofHistory.pdf

>> No.10496978

>>10496942
Not really. Painters work in a variety of jobs to paint things. Buildings, houses, cars, toys, you name it, and a painter painted it. Painters use a variety of brushes, rollers and electronic spray guns to get the proper coat and technique for quality-looking paint jobs. Typically, painters use drop cloths and cover or remove anything that doesn't need painting, prepare surfaces to accept paint by scraping or sanding, apply primer or base coats, buy and mix paints, decide on colors and finishes for the final product. Some painters use specialized safety equipment and ventilators to stay safe on the job. Painters work indoors and outdoors, and some might need special equipment to reach tall buildings or structures.

Different types of painters include construction painters who paint new buildings, maintenance painters who touch up paint and maintain the condition of current paint jobs, artisan painters who apply decorative techniques to painted surfaces, or painting and coating workers who apply paint to cars, toys furniture and other manufactured products.

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), painters in 2010 made a median hourly income of $16.48, or $34,280 a year.

>> No.10496982

>>10496949
my advice to you is to not waste your time with art school unless it's a traditional art school with painting/drwaing/sculpting classes only, draw every day and read as much as possible
t. failed painter

>> No.10496989

>>10496935
Supplies expensive
in 2010 the hip thang was that you could Paint with things that Weren't PAINT (which can be even more expensive if you're painting with fucking resin or something. Which is fine, I can dig that, HOWEVER:
Because of this 'anything can be a painting' logic a girl literally turned in a pen drawing of child-esque zoo animals on brown garbage paper. It was well recieved. I stayed the fuck away from the painting department after that. I think someone also literally just repainted/ripped off the famous joy division cover for an assignment, too.

Good luck. Art school really feels like a closed off bubble from everything else. If you wanna show in galleries and shit I guess it helps.

>> No.10496990

>>10496982
Im conflicted about this because i dont like the things people create at those traditional schools but some techniques seem useful to know.

>> No.10496993

>>10490632
Thank you for this post. I just saved it in a notepad, I thought it was so quality.

>> No.10496997
File: 51 KB, 413x272, support_local_sign_painter.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10496997

>>10496978
good post

>> No.10496998

>>10496935
i hope it's free

>> No.10497005
File: 116 KB, 780x596, 2b37ab05d22eb63e5a0e9ba6fb1f7fb0.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10497005

>>10496998
Its dont

>> No.10497006

>>10496989
>If you wanna show in galleries and shit I guess it helps.
Absolutely not.
Networking does.

>> No.10497013

>>10496990
what are your interests/skills beside painting?

>> No.10497015

>>10497006
I agree, but the big seller is you get networking from Art School. That's what I meant.

>> No.10497019

>>10496990
technique is the only thing that's worth knowing but don't expect great knowledge from middle of the road schools, you should look up good schools in Italy France or UK
whatever else is taught in modern art schools is completely useless and you shouldn't waste your time with it but read instead

>> No.10497021

>>10496989
Maybe it was well received in class but who cares about it afterwards?

>> No.10497028

>>10497005
has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

>> No.10497031

>>10497015
which art school?

>> No.10497032

>>10497028
awayate from here's

>> No.10497038

>>10497021
this
it's a fun ride tho
and art hoes best hoes

>> No.10497040

>>10497032
will do

>> No.10497045

>>10497021
At the time I found it insulting given how much money I paid to go there even with a scholarship n grantz, and again with the networking thing-- professors exalted that kind of garbage. Ultimately, yeah, nobody gives a shit about your art. Not giving a shit will help you in art school, but I guess the cost and the pretentiousness got at me bad.

>>10497031
i went to saic. i was the cripplingly shy idiot who couldn't network. I consider myself a failed artist desu

>> No.10497049

>>10497045
you can always become Hitler

>> No.10497050
File: 150 KB, 845x768, otto fellatio.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10497050

>>10487200
"As for what happened -- the same thing that has been happening ever since I started posting in videogame forums. I hold a mirror to people's faces, they see their ignorance and stupidity reflected in it, and then instead of learning from that and mending their ways they lash out at me, for showing them the mirror."
This guy's a real gadfly, chums.

>> No.10497055

>>10487334
My name is Jan Jansen; I live in Wisconsin. I work in a lumberyard there.

>> No.10497060

>>10497049
Nah. I'm too shy to become Hitler.

plan is to make as much work and writing as possible in between shitty jobs and then I'll die and people can look through it and laugh at me

>> No.10497061

>>10488524
It's for people who don't know there is a distinction.

>> No.10497068

>>10488364
>how the art world is going to learn to deal with internet imagery and memes.
Check out Alan Resnick's work. He works a lot with hyperreality and focuses on the illness and detritus strewn around the digital environment.

>> No.10497094

>>10497055
what are you doing in an art discussion thread, jan from wisconsin?

>> No.10497112

>>10497094
leave him alone
he's a lumberjack
he's ok

>> No.10497119

>>10497112
norm-core phase, eh? ok, carry on.

>> No.10497133

>>10497112
he sleeps all night

>> No.10497350

>>10497050
goonan-tier

>> No.10497426

>>10487346
Joséphine as tu dès suggestions disponibles sur le réseau de bibliothèques de la ville de Paris?

>> No.10497503

>>10497050
He's right though.

>> No.10497516

>>10497503
>I'm smarter than a video game forum poster yet that's what I am
quite an achievement

>> No.10497531

>>10497516
>ad hominem instead of an argument that confronts him properly
This is exactly his point. If you were to seek out threads where he is discussed, it is full of passive aggressive nonsense like this. He also doesn't really post anywhere else other than his own website anymore; that quote must be like a decade old. And where exactly does any bias towards video game forum posters come into this discussion outside of your own post?

>> No.10497546

>>10497531
>If you were to seek out threads where he is discussed
Are you joking? Reading his tripe about art was enough for me.

>> No.10497553

>>10497546
>insulting the character of and dismissing someone you don't know shit about
You're a bright one.

>> No.10497557

>>10497553
for you

>> No.10497569

>>10497553
There are so many talented authors who wrote good books out there, I won't waste any more of my time on this character.

>> No.10497583

>>10497569
Do what you want. He is an essential read if you prefer the Continental authors though.

>> No.10497593

>>10497583
Where are his major works published?

>> No.10497613

>>10497593
culture.vg and orgyofthewill.net are his main sites. Some reviews on culture.vg are by other members of the site, but everything is curated by him, and everything on Orgy is his own. culture.vg has essays as well if you dig around, some by others and some are passages from other authors like Nietzsche or Baudrillard, for example:

http://insomnia.ac/essays/the_conspiracy_of_art/
http://insomnia.ac/essays/contemporary_art/

He has 2 books published, and he is working on 4 others last I checked. You can also read samples of those books on his site, he has roughly 85% of the books on there to read for free.

>> No.10497644

>>10497613
I'm not sure what distinguishes him from the other self-made authors shilling their mediocre writings on the internet. Why do you think it's essential reading material?

>> No.10497691

>>10497644
Because philosophically, he's the next stage from Nietzsche and Baudrillard's counterpart just like Nietzsche was to Schopenhauer. If that is too abstract for you, then you could also read his essays on videogames, which are completely unparalleled across the internet. They make him the first real art critic in the videogame scene. Videogame art criticism of the future is absolutely going to be built on his work.

>> No.10497701

>>10497691
>philosophers are stages
>writes about videogames
checks out

>> No.10497719

>>10497691
>If that is too abstract for you
chuckled audibly

>> No.10497733

>>10497701
>he thinks "start with the Greeks" is just a meme
Seriously though, there is an evolutionary chain to be followed between philosophers. That's all it means.

>> No.10497772

>>10497733
You don't know what you are talking about because I did start with the greeks, before it was the meme it is today. So good for you if you really think your boy is top dog but I suggest you go back to Athens at once because I suspect you can't even draw a straight line.

>> No.10497813

>>10497772
So no philosopher has ever been chiefly influenced by a specific other philosopher and it is impossible for this to be the case, is that what you're saying? Nietzsche was not highly influenced by Schopenhauer and there is no value in being aware of Schopenhauer when reading Nietzsche?

>So good for you if you really think your boy is top dog
You act like I give a shit what you think. If you don't want to bother reading him and just want to be a snotty asshole, then fucking don't and go right ahead.

>> No.10497831

>>10497813
go back

>> No.10497859

icycalm is a manchild who thinks vidya ost composers and burger minimalists are a logical continuation of western classical tradition

>> No.10497865

>>10497831
Go fuck yourself.

>>10497859
Post the original quote.

>> No.10497872

>>10497865
definitively goonan-tier

>> No.10497905

>>10497872
Why do you come to the literature board when you don't seem to have a genuine interest in reading things?

>> No.10497912

jesus fuck
let this thread die with some dignity

>> No.10497916

>>10497905
To be fair, anon said he read your art essay and thought it was tripe.

>> No.10497969

>>10497916
He gives no reason to believe he read more than a paragraph.

>> No.10497976

>>10497969
>>10497912

>> No.10498274

>>10497691
his website design is total shit, he can't know much about art

>> No.10498424

>>10496858
so much in this picture

>> No.10498799

>>10496182
I kind of agree

>> No.10498854
File: 128 KB, 500x411, poopoopeepee.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10498854

THE NEW ART

>> No.10499918

>>10497569
and then here you are shitposting on 4chan

>> No.10499926

>>10498854
punk is so passé

>> No.10500270

>>10498854
this is same thing as cave art basaically

>> No.10500346

>>10499926
Le tryhard go back to le reddit

>> No.10500452

>>10499918
What's your point?

>> No.10500899

this board is full of retards kek

>> No.10501179
File: 1.15 MB, 480x268, lava.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10501179

>>10492025
No, it's hot

>> No.10501326

>>10496821
What makes you think the quota marks are remotely ironic?

>> No.10502269

>>10500452
I don't know.

>> No.10502335
File: 656 KB, 3340x3176, the synthesis.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10502335

>>10500270
I disagree

>> No.10503263

>>10502335
haha retard

>> No.10504655

>>10487153
fpbp

>> No.10504761

>>10500346
>>>/pol/

>> No.10504775

>>10496182
Amazing how every word you said was wrong.
You are like a little baby adhering to what you already know and slathering it with pointless bias for the preference of other tools. Paintbrushes and canvas are instruments just are computers. The 'Soul' you're talking about is artifice.

>> No.10504787

>>10500270
I truly have no idea if I completely agree or disagree with this comment desu
t. just visited the caves of Font-de-Gaume this afternoon

>> No.10504792

>>10504775
calm down, he's just trolling

>> No.10504906

>>10496182
See, this is why you need to read the Benjamin book in the first post, even though it's "entry level". It's current year and this cuck is still completely spooked by notions of aurality in art, almost like he can't understand why people don't discuss watercolor like they used to. Do you also cry out in despair for the soul of man when you go to the movies, brainlet?

>> No.10504987

>>10487145
The London phone book

>> No.10504992

>>10504906
he probably also refuses to be photographed, because he believes the camera would steal his soul
strangely, he somehow allows himself the use of a personal computer

>> No.10505005
File: 926 KB, 1280x1553, 8d71b65268216be0231943d0a5b1bb86.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10505005

>>10504987
you mean Los Angeles?

>> No.10505011

>>10504992
When the first computer showed up in my high school, I wouldn't go near it because I believed that computers steal your soul. This turned out to be true.

>> No.10505017

Nicolas Bourriaud is real a nice guy.

>> No.10505233

>>10505017
I have heard that a fwe times but I really disliked his relational aesthetics book. Maybe I should read it again.

>>
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