/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.9914552]

ITT: Books women could NEVER understand

[Anonymous No.9914598]

>>9914552
>Implying there aren't sick, spiteful, unattractive women
Literally any middle-aged cat lady could be the Underground Man

[Anonymous No.9914611]

>>9914598
You haven't read the book have you?

No woman would be capable of coming to the (correct) conclusions that the Underground Man came to. Especially not some used up old granny

[Anonymous No.9914616]

Is it a good entry way to Dostoevsky? I'm 19 and haven't read that much so I'm having troubles with getting through Devils.

[Anonymous No.9914624]

>>9914616
Seems to be most people's way in, yeah. Or if you want one even shorter, try The Grand Inquisitor.

[Anonymous No.9914625]

>>9914616
Start with Crime and Punishment my dude then Notes

[Anonymous No.9916131]

Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man

[Anonymous No.9916161]

>>9916131

[Anonymous No.9916164]

>>9914611
>the (correct) conclusions that the Underground Man came to
>correct
>thinking Dostoyevsky wanted people to relate to the Underground Man

lel, look at this pleb.

[Anonymous No.9916180]

>>9916164
why do you plebs insist on interpreting dostoevsky even though he never produced anything worthy of note?

[Anonymous No.9916188]

>>9914611
Pretty sure Dostoevsky intended for the Underground Man to be a sort of stepping stone or warning to a more fulfilled self or meaningful existence. It's sort of like how Kierkegaard will write opinions that don't necessarily match his own in order to provoke his reader into having their own experience.

[Anonymous No.9916192]

Notes From The Underground is a character study of a neurotic before neurotics were considered a thing.

[Anonymous No.9916226]

Women understand male narcissism very well.

[Anonymous No.9916235]

>>9916188
>>9916164

>implying I'm proud of it

In a utopian society what was thought to be a satirical characters can be realized. If anything the fact that people do relate to the undergorund man redounds to Dostoevsky's brilliant foresight. Nevertheless the character clearly represents a faiilure of manhood

[Anonymous No.9916240]

>>9916131
Yeah, this is always the one I think of when this thread comes up. It's just impossible for them to get it. Hell, even most men these days completely misunderstand it.

[Anonymous No.9917426]

>>9914552
>Not knowing women understand this book better than any man

[Anonymous No.9917435]

>>9914616
I want to start with him too, but I haven't read the bible. Is it any point in reading Dosto without having read the bible?

[Anonymous No.9917438]

>>9917435
You've fallen for the memes again. Just read Crime & Punishment and decide for yourself whether it was worth reading

[Anonymous No.9917463]

>>9914552
Women can relate to the prostitute, though. Like every woman has had to deal with a fucking loser like that.

[Anonymous No.9917468]

>x pages of platitudinous whining thinly veiled as fiction
what's there to understand

[Anonymous No.9917524]

>>9917426
This is true.

[Anonymous No.9917556]

>>9917468
more like gaybokov

[Anonymous No.9917561]

>>9914552
>Pevear

[Anonymous No.9918147]

>>9914598
Nope. Every middle-aged cat lady was once a young lady and young ladies are always desired by someone. By virtue of that, they never knew the true and complete isolation of Underground Man.

[Anonymous No.9918210]

>>9916226
t b h

[Anonymous No.9918250]

>>9917468
I'm sure it was hard for Nabokov to criticize the long dead Dostoevsky. We all know if Dostoevsky was alive, Nabokov
A) would never have criticized him so openly
B) would look like a child conversing with Dostoevsky

It's also worth noting Nabokov, as a proto /r/atheism thinker, disliked Dostoevsky solely because of his religious themes.

[Anonymous No.9918664]

>>9914616
read notes and then crime and punishment
>>9914625
don't listen to this fucking idiot holy shit, why would you read the longer book instead of one of his shorter works to see if you even like his writing style? not to mention that the underground man is pretty much the seed for the main character in c&p. go eat shit faggot.

[Anonymous No.9918964]

>>9914616
I think CaP is quite easy.
>>9914624
The Grand Inquisitor is a chapter of Brothers Karamazov. And it's the most difficult chapter of that book. It's amazing though I must say.
>>9917435
CaP is not connected with the Bible as I remember. Karamazov is on the other hand very much. I had to read whole parts of the Bible because of references.
>>9916226
Why is /lit/ full of misogynists and anti-misogynist.

[Anonymous No.9919873]

[Anonymous No.9919943]

>>9914552
>a guy acts like he is deeply in love with a woman but then becomes utterly repulsed by her after he busts a nut

Yeah, a woman could never understand this

[Anonymous No.9919955]

>>9919873
this

[Anonymous No.9919974]

[Anonymous No.9920011]

>>9917426
This post annoys me.

[Anonymous No.9920069]

>>9918964
How much of a grasp on the Bible would you say is required to fully appreciate the brothers k?

[Anonymous No.9920083]

>>9914552
>tfw just came from /tv/ because I saw a "movies women will never understand thread"
>tfw came to /lit/ with the intention of posting a "lit that women will never understand thread"
>tfw I see this thread on the first page
>tfw I was intending to use the Bros K by Dostoevsky as a book women will never understand
>tfw on The Grand Inquisitor chapter right now and it just fucked my shit up after reading the previous chapters easily.

In any case, good job lads. Women will never understand this ass either.

[Anonymous No.9920094]

>>9916226
Of course they would. Women are naturally narcissistic.

[Anonymous No.9920095]

>>9920069
bump

[Anonymous No.9920101]

>>9914552

>it's a pathetic incel thread

Sad.

[Anonymous No.9920111]

>>9920069
Idk about you anglos, but my edition (Italian) has a footnote for every biblical reference.

[Anonymous No.9920156]

>>9920111
Hmm mine doesn't.

[Anonymous No.9920160]

[Anonymous No.9920184]

>>9914616
Just read his works chronologically. If you aren't trying to read everything, I would recommend at the minimum Poor Folk > Notes From Underground (a philosophical prologue to C&P) > Crime and Punishment > The Idiot > Demons > The Karamozov Brothers. Don't even think about skipping any of the last four because they compose a giant Shakespearian tragedy and, obviously, build off one another considerably. Add The Double and House of the Dead in chronologically if you are feeling up to it, the latter being more important contextually. Find translations by McDuff, Meyers, Avsey, Coulson, Meyer, and Wilks. Most of all avoid Garnett and P&V.

[Anonymous No.9920208]

>>9916240
Can you tell me what it is about then?

[Anonymous No.9920249]

>>9920069
I haven't read the Bible, but I think you should read the Bible once casually to get a global picture about Christianity, and then when you are reading BK you should check wiki for example to remind yourself of specific references.
I remember there was a reference to the "Temptation of Christ", and I spent some hour reading about it on wiki.
It's doable without having read the Bible, but you'll miss out many references and allusions which you don't even know that are connected to the Bible.

>>9920083
>tfw I was intending to use the Bros K by Dostoevsky as a book women will never understand
I don't think we talk about that kind of understanding. Grand Inquisitor is complicated, and it requires previous knowledge and IQ and everything. Notes on the other hand might not be that difficult, but you need to have "felt things on your own skin" (idk what's the English phrase for this exactly) previously so you can essentially understand the mindset of the character. Women can never be men (and men can never be women), so it's hard for them to understand Notes.
I know some girls that have read BK, but Notes not.

>>9920184
Care to elaborate the issue with Garnett and P&G?

[Anonymous No.9920382]

Women could never understand The Hobbit by J R R Tolkien

[Anonymous No.9920388]

>>9920382
I agree 100%

[Anonymous No.9920494]

>>9920249
Thanks for the response m80

[Anonymous No.9920507]

>>9917468
Fuck off roastie.

[Anonymous No.9920669]

[Anonymous No.9920676]

>>9919974

What woman wouldn't like to piss on the decapitated head of an enemy then tread on it untill the skin comes off?

[Anonymous No.9920704]

>>9920669
XDDD

[Anonymous No.9920740]

>>9920249
It's just my opinion, but having read a good deal of the translators, some Garnett versions are originally insufficiently edited and read P&V side by side comparisons with competent translators to see the issue for yourself. It doesn't do the work justice.

[Anonymous No.9920815]

>>9914552
Here's a summary+meaning

[Anonymous No.9920987]

>>9919873
This.

Women are reading this thinking 'Why doesn't he just work harder and progress up the career ladder and a buy a Porsche. I don't even care about this character, how tall is he anyway?'

[Anonymous No.9921009]

>>9920669
Bravo good sir.
You are truly doing gods work.

[Anonymous No.9921011]

>>9920160
I'm sure they can understand cucking a man.

[Anonymous No.9921379]

>>9920184
>do extensive research on which translation of Brothers K is superior
>majority report back that it's P&V
>order said translation and begin reading
>an anon on /lit/ is suddenly saying to avoid P&V at all costs
Care to explain the issue? I've been told it is the superior translation that stays as close to the original Russian than all the others.

[Anonymous No.9921385]

>>9921379
P&V for crime and punishment
McDuff for TBK

[Anonymous No.9921394]

I'd say any book that deals with the combination of concepts such as 'honour' and 'sacrifice' in combination with combat/conflict.

Examples would be the Iliad (and maybe the Odyssey), hagakure, etc.

[Anonymous No.9921473]

>>9914611
>(correct)
getting brainwashed by a fictional psychopath autismo who didnt even try

[Anonymous No.9921815]

>>9914552

[Anonymous No.9921867]

>>9914611
OP: Women can't understand this
reply: [contrary example]
OP: No, the women I've made up in my mind can't understand this

first day back on /lit/ and I already hate myself again

[Anonymous No.9921897]

>>9921394
Are you saying women don't understand vague, socially constructed value systems?

Substitute "nuturing" and "caregiver" for "honor" and "sacrifice". Can men not get anything out of books associated with traditional feminine values? I hear way too much praise for Austen and Morrison on this board for that to be true.

[Anonymous No.9921918]

>>9921897

Where is the "nurture" and "caregiving" in Austen?

[Anonymous No.9922352]

>>9921897
Toni Morrison? Literally never mentioned here. Austen only mentioned to point out how shit women are

[Anonymous No.9923388]

>>9914625
C&P...he's 19, his brain isn't even fully formed yet. He will be physiologically unable to follow several characters.

[Anonymous No.9923399]

>>9920184
Poor Folk is formulaic and involuntarily funny.

[Anonymous No.9923410]

>>9914552
my diary desu

[Anonymous No.9923981]

>>9914616
G R E E K S

[Anonymous No.9923993]

>>9921897
>vague
i thought you said you can understand it

[Anonymous No.9923997]

>>9921897

>vague, socially constructed value systems?

I don't understand why you people are so fanatically devoted to "equality" and "diversity" but think that honour and sacrifice are mere "social constructs".

Why should I respect your value system any more than you respect mine?

[Anonymous No.9924012]

[Anonymous No.9924125]

>>9921897
>muh "social construct = bad"

[Anonymous No.9924131]

>>9914552
>women literally writes about about a subject and group of people she later admits to never understanding

[Anonymous No.9924400]

>>9916180
>what is the idiot

[Anonymous No.9924411]

>>9923997
Nice, that's a sentiment I've had but haven't been able to express.

[Anonymous No.9926004]

None of you have talked to a woman clearly

[Anonymous No.9926112]

>>9926004
Even Chad knows women are dumbdumbs, you turbovirgin

[Anonymous No.9926135]

>>9914552
This is wrongheaded as fuck, I know multiple beautiful, intelligent women who were unnerved and moved by this book. Cut your dick off.

[Anonymous No.9926260]

>>9926135
This HAS to be satire. If not... wow

[Anonymous No.9926306]

do you seriously think that women can't be lonely and angsty?

[Anonymous No.9926327]

>>9926260
You have to be a fucking idiot to be this hard in denial. How many women do you fucking talk to?

[Anonymous No.9926357]

>>9926327
if women are foreveralone it's just because they are too snobby and are waiting for prince charming to come a long, if they want to get laid or even a husband they basically just have to go outside, some guy will be hitting on them within 10 minutes, if that doesn't work they can go on any online dating site and get a million hits

[Anonymous No.9926372]

>>9926327
I'm sorry mate but you are talking utter shite. I've met few women who have read any dosto and they had only read C&P.

Where are the multiple beautiful and intelligent women who have read the underground man because I certainly haven't met any?

Source: English Major

[Anonymous No.9926386]

The Things They Carried.

[Anonymous No.9926399]

>>9926357

do you think Big Mohammed the crack addict fawning over you counts as an ''option''?

[Anonymous No.9926410]

>>9926399
You think mudslime women read Notes? Are you retarded?

[Anonymous No.9926425]

>>9914552
I don't understand why a woman wouldn't understand Notes from Underground. The Underground Man's impotence isn't gender-specific, although his isolation is; even neurotic, manic women are attractive to (unhealthy) men.
Consider, however, that the Underground Man exhibits borderline tendencies. (Dostoevsky himself is presumed to have suffered from BPD.) The Underground Man's impotence, pettiness, narcissism, and delusions are all characteristics you can commonly witness in females with personality disorders. Even his interactions with Liza remain essentially the same with the genders inverted, although the dynamic changes from one of explicit "domination" to implicit "control" more appropriate to gender norms.

I suppose my point is that it isn't their gender itself that precludes women identifying with the Underground Man, but the external contextualization of gender. So while neuroticism or mania occur in women similarly, the way they're interpreted by society differs. Although, you could argue that that difference recontextualizes the internal experience. Anyway, Notes from Underground isn't merely about the personal, internal experience of this mania.

[Anonymous No.9926426]

>>9926306
Yes, but not not as trapped into existential angst/autism as men.


BTW tryhards are welcome to post litterature that proves OP wrong instead of making pissy fits (which ironically proves him right).

[Anonymous No.9926435]

>>9926399
i bet if i tried to talk to you it would go well right up until as soon as you determine i didn't go to a top ten school or have a phd you'll start mentioning your "boyfriend" fuck off, i'm sure prince charming with the harvard phd will come along someday

[Anonymous No.9926467]

>>9926435
the time that really pissed me the fuck off was when the chick started talking about her boyfriend AFTER we fucked, it's like What The Fuck is your god damn problem

[Anonymous No.9926472]

>>9926435

I think the bitterness would put me off first

[Anonymous No.9926478]

>>9926472
well we can't all live charmed one percent lives ok ho, maybe try your luck at some night club that won't let people in if they're not wearing gucci, no resentful proletarians in there except maybe the mexican guy wiping down the tables

[Anonymous No.9926485]

>>9926472
You are derailing of the thread with your "womyn are so oppressed" act. We are trying to have a discussion so kindly leave us to it

[Anonymous No.9926498]

i fapped to a hetero fantasy for the first time in probably months, ugh, what was i thinking

[Anonymous No.9926509]

>>9926485

this whole thread is ''men are so oppressed'

[Anonymous No.9926517]

>>9926509
no one said men are oppressed, just that womyn can never understand the male experience, kys

[Anonymous No.9926540]

>>9926472
Are women like you really that oblivious to the fact that you are proving OP's point by answering like that?

>>9926509
It's not oppression. But obviously cunts like you don't understand that, which is the whole point of the thread.

[Anonymous No.9926547]

ITT:

A bunch of teenage boys who don't know anything about women (because they are weirdos who can't look people in the eye), making massive generalizations.

[Anonymous No.9926558]

>>9926547
tell it to your cats, no one cares

[Anonymous No.9926567]

>>9926547
anon there are feelings and by extension themes of books men can never "understand" either. In fact they're probably richer and more meaningful

[Anonymous No.9926572]

>>9926547
>massive generalizations are bad
>"you're all autists lmao"
Is this the best you can do?

[Anonymous No.9926578]

i can't believe YOU PEOPLE gets your're panties in a bunch over a decade old /tv/ meem

[Anonymous No.9926600]

>>9926372
This right here. I'm not saying Dostoe is the greatest writer, but it's easy to tell when he "clicks" with people. I've met a lot of women english majors who've read CP or excerpts of notes... none viewed it as anything more than coursework. And I can't say that suprised me

[Anonymous No.9926615]

>>9926572

If the shoe fits.

I'm making massive generalizations about like 20 children whose thoughts I've read. Not an entire gender.

You guys should stick to reading books and talking about them.

Develop meaningful relationships with women in real life.

And the answer to OPs question is James Crumley's The Last Good Kiss.

[Anonymous No.9926622]

>>9914552

They wish they do, but they don't.

[Anonymous No.9926625]

>>9926435
I want /r9k/ to go and stay go
This thread should be deleted and op should be banned

[Anonymous No.9926635]

>>9926540

What are we meant to be attracted to bitter guys who hate women? fucking get real

[Anonymous No.9926717]

>>9926615
>My generalizations are a-okay but yours aren't
F for effort


>>9926635
Your contemptuous and dismissive posts are exactly proving the difference between the existential dread of men and the hysteria of women.

[Anonymous No.9926735]

Femoids can't understand Pessoa.

[Anonymous No.9927175]

>>9926547
>teenage
good luck roastie i'm 30

[Anonymous No.9927319]

>>9918250
I haven't read Nabokov, why is he a proto /r/atheism thinker?

[Anonymous No.9927334]

>>9927319
He's not, just doesn't respect religion, which is a massive character flaw but not reddit tier when it's present in one of the greatest writers if the 20th century

[Anonymous No.9927341]

>>9922352
Austen is better than joyce. Remove your cranium from your anal cavity

[Anonymous No.9927351]

>>9926372
>english major
Do you realize that life continues after college, and that middle adulthood is Real?

[Anonymous No.9927369]

>>9927175
>30
>still browses
Imagine being this guy

[Anonymous No.9927400]

>>9927334
I agree that it's a massive character flaw, that's why I love Dostoevsky so much, but there are great writers which are atheists too, for example Calvino (which is one of my favorites).