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9800917 No.9800917 [Reply] [Original]

What three books on political philosophy should I read?

I have already read Plato, Aristotle, Machiavelli, Hobbes and Montesquieu.

>> No.9800927

JS Mill
Adam Smith (you're into bricks right)

>> No.9800928

On the Social Contract
Reflections on the Revolutions in France
Concept of the Political

>> No.9800931

David Icke unironically

>> No.9800936
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>> No.9800938

Two Treatises of Government by Locke
The Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith
Democracy in America by Tocqueville

>> No.9800945

Rousseau. Not just social contract but also his other essays, like discourse on inequality

>> No.9800953


>> No.9800996

De officiis - Cicero
Two treatises of government - John Locke

If you have read Machiavelli's Discorsi
Considerazioni sui Discorsi del Machiavelli - Guicciardini

If you haven't read Machiavelli's Discorsi
Anti-Machiavel of Frederick the Great

>> No.9801113

Carl Schmitt - Political Theology
Hannah Arendt - On Revolution
John Rawls - A Theory of Justice

>> No.9801246

What if I want to read political theory that talks about how public discourse has been subverted for the sake of maintaining control, or political theory that talks about the growth of corporate-political complexes? i.e., things like Orwell's Politics and the English Language and Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent. I'm tired of reading shit about what is ideal when nobody talks about what is real, which is subversion of every idealized system.

>> No.9801264

can't read theory of justice without reading anarchy, state and utopia

>> No.9801268

reminder that this is an anti-politics board

>> No.9801709

nicomachean ethics
the human condition
after virtue

>> No.9802550


>> No.9802557

Anything from Norberto Bobbio

>> No.9802572

Presuming you will read more than three, the next big three it would make most sense to read would be Locke's Second Treatise (First is skippable unless you're an academic), Rousseau's Discourses, and Kant's Groundwork (not especially political, but necessary for Hegel and Marx and most that follow them).

>> No.9802584
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Let me more clear:
>Left and Right
>General Theory of Politics

Both from Bobbio.

>> No.9802963

Essay on the Generative Principle of Political Constitutions by Joseph de Maistre

>> No.9804293

What is so special about Bobbio? I see his name being floated a lot more around here lately.

>> No.9804382

forget all of this, and just read Theory of Justice, and then right afterward read Anarchy, State, and Utopia

They are/were the cutting edge of mainstream political philosophy.

>> No.9805518

Based on what you are missing, the most important books I would recommend are:

The Social Contract by Rousseau
Reflections on the Revolution in France by Burke
The Marx-Engels Reader

However, I would suggest that you have much more to read after that.

>> No.9805525

I think you have that backwards anon.

>> No.9805594

He is perfect, that is all...

>> No.9806782

No. That is not all. Either make a case for him or I will not bother with his works.

>> No.9806787


David Icke liked my OKCupid profile. Have had a soft spot for him ever since.

>> No.9806809

History of the Peloponnesian War

>> No.9806863

Which translation?

>> No.9806901

i always sincerely doubt that the people who make these images have read all the books in them. Its such a weird selection if you actually care for the subject, but theyre kind of the best know book of each century up until now.

>> No.9807055

the art of the deal

>> No.9807062

MacIntyre fucked them in the garage. Directly under the statue of Aristotle.

>> No.9807073

Another way to tell is that these images always include Plato, but never include Plato's Laws

>> No.9807075

ignore this>>9800936
it's absolute trash typical of a dilettante who browses /lit/ i fact you may as well ignore the rest of the thread too

read Hobbes again

>> No.9807085

did schmitt understand hobbes?

>> No.9807086

Proudhon: What is Property?
Engels - Socialism: Utopian and Scientific
Engels - Origin of the family, private property and the state
Marx - Contribution to the Critique of political economy
Marx - Das Kapital vol. 1 & 2
Luxemburg - Accumulation of Capital
Lenin - State and Revolution
Kropotkin - Conquest of Bread
Gilles Dauve - Eclipse and Re-emergence of the communist movement

>> No.9807188

Marx, Foucault, Wittgenstein, Lyotard, Rorty

>> No.9807222
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Eclipse and Re-emergence is a really good book. I don't see the point of reading Accumulation of Capital and Capital Vol 1, since Capital covers most of the things there.

>> No.9807619

Anon...easy on the lefty/pol/

>> No.9807622

Read bookchin

>> No.9807645

Bookchin is respectable and I have been considering reading him for some time.

>> No.9807675

Well, what would you recommend instead?

>> No.9808007

God Stalin was such a memer

>> No.9808014


The Hackett Lattimore edition I believe has a better translation where as the Landmark one has better maps and notes. Most people on here choose the Landmark but I don't believe the Crawley translation is respected.

>> No.9808139

What the hell kind of question is that? Schmitt was a genius, one of the most significant contributors to political thought in his century.

>> No.9808648

Thanks. What do you think of the Hobbes translation? I think it would be interesting to examine for its perspective through the translation.

>> No.9808668

this list should read as a primer of which over-exaggerated books you never need to touch in order to understand contemporary politics

>> No.9809366

did he understand hobbes?

>> No.9809940

Of course he understood Hobbes you idiot.

>> No.9809947

>Of course he understood
ok but do you understand hobbes and schmitt both to make this statement

>> No.9809994
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Bertrand de Jouvenel - On Power
Vilfredo Pareto - The Mind and Society
Gaetano Mosca - The Ruling Class
Robert Michels - Political Parties

This is the basic literature for you to start seeing politics as it is instead of how writers want it to be.

>> No.9810507

Google Murray Bookchin

>> No.9810727

This list will actually give you a surprisingly decent background on western political theory. It's (perhaps too) heavily weighted towards Enlightenment thought, but it's a pretty solid list.

Ignore >>9807075 and >>9808668 - they are wrong.

There are better translations of every Landmark edition text (Herodotus, Thucydides, Xenophon, Arrian), but for the most part the translations in the Landmark editions are *good enough*, and the maps, side-notes, and ancillary information they provide more than compensate for not using a really first-rate translation.

>> No.9811244

They aren't really wrong though.

>> No.9811265

The century of the self (documentary)

>> No.9811328

What the fuck are you on about idiot? This is basically the reading list for a History of Political Though class I had. Bacon(New Atlantis) is the only thing missing and we skipped foucault.

>> No.9811356

First, read Hume's disemboweling of all political philosophy to understand why everything written before Hume is worthless.

Then, read Rawls to understand why only things written from Rawls onwards is worth reading.

Basically everything else is useless outside of its historic value. If you're reading for an understanding of philosophical history, ignore this. If you're reading to understand political philosophy itself, then as I said, Hume and Rawls.

As an aside, a lot of old Stoicism, Confucianism, and Sun Tzu/Miyamoto Musashi style philosophy touches on politics and provide refreshing new angles to view it from.

Basically any book considered "a mirror for princes" is useful for finding new political perspectives: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirrors_for_princes

>> No.9811365

tell me more

>> No.9811424

>reading unironically

>> No.9812995

Haha keep telling yourself that.

>> No.9813083

Spooky spookman is unironically the only political philosopher you need to read.

>> No.9813733

You're a total idiot

>> No.9814005

What do you mean by this? Also, what are your political beliefs in a nutshell?

>> No.9814306
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You're trying to discuss political science without Hobbes. Would you like some help with that?

>> No.9814309


Political Philosophy*

(Though Hobbes is a foundational thinker for Political Science's context and offers one of the best discussions of the reasons for existence of the state)

>> No.9814324


Unironic agreement. Crisis of Parliamentary Democracy is necessary reading for anyone who wants a more informed idea of Democracy, Liberalism, or Populism/Fascism.

Recommend reading it alongside Sorrel's Reflections on Violence.

>> No.9814337


Not like he gave bad suggestions for the field. This is a reasonable annex to a more politically neutral foundation of political theory.

Only thing that really irks me is that it should be paired with some post-Marxist thought that critiques it. (I.E. Sorrel), or should include more of a focus on the problems of Marxist economics. (Consider Smith's Wealth of Nations, a book that still rewards reading even today - and implicitly supports some Marxist conclusions; as well as Braverman's Labor and Monopoly Capital which argues that alienation is more likely to be found in the organization of capital, rather than 'who owns it'.)

>> No.9814355


Good suggestions, second on Foucault in particular. Would suggest adding Issiah Berlin's "Two Kinds of Liberty" and "Political Ideas in the Twentieth Century". The latter essay is linked below and I cannot recommend it enough if an anon has a mixed interest in contemporary history, political philosophy, and sociology.


>> No.9814364


fuck, just realized it was paywalled. Anyway, just search the title and filetype:pdf in google if anyone is interested

>> No.9814484


Absolutely. The Biggest Secret is great shit. This was from back when he openly theorized about the Reptilian Agenda and wasn't holding back at all.

Nowadays he seems to play to his audience, downplaying the reptilian stuff cause most people can't handle that shit. Its a shame, I really miss balls-to-the-wall David Icke.

>> No.9815445


>> No.9816625

Anyone find it yet/

>> No.9816634

Who is this cute?

>> No.9816641

Locke, Rousseau and Marx.

>> No.9816950

2/3 right ain't bad.

>> No.9818264


>> No.9819254

it's fucking beautiful tbqh

>> No.9819352

wow that's an impressive education you've got anon! did you teach yourself?

Believe me it shows.

>> No.9819357

yeah that makes sense. I should be able to understand 4000 years of thought in political philosophy by reading a handful of discredited jews.

>> No.9819550
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I suggest Derrida Specters of Marx. I found it interesting and engaging.
Uhh why did I use those words? I am ashamed.
It was totes interesting and engaging though.

>> No.9819585
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Murray Bookchin is pretty good even if he has become a meme.

>> No.9819800

Why does this post make me chuckle so? I feel like his thought needs some more serious exploration and study by contemporary philosophers.

>> No.9820428

Why is he a meme exactly?

>> No.9820649

Of course I understand both Hobbes and Schmitt in order to make this statement.

>> No.9820656

'political philosophy' is hot bullshit. Foremost, most of what you will be suggested is just ideological reinforcement.

>> No.9820889

Not entirely sure how to take this, but I presume that it's dripping with irony.

>> No.9821237

Is it a difficult book?

>> No.9821261

I would like to party with her for an evening or more. She seems to know where the fun is.

>> No.9821281
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Come to Voronezh.

>> No.9821349

What's it like there? I'm intrigued.

>> No.9822763

Who is she? Source?

>> No.9822827

Is it even possible to jump into Kant and Hegel like that? Kant without the rationalists and Hegel without a good understanding of Kant and and his prior works?

>> No.9823197
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Why it is important to read Hobbes and the rest of the ancient dudes first-hand? Surely it's possible to learn all the same ideas from modern, more concise secondary sources.

>> No.9823215

Beceause Hobbes provides the framework of political terminology with in the modern state.

>> No.9824826


>> No.9824852


its not.

>Surely it's possible to learn all the same ideas from modern, more concise secondary sources.


leviathan is 400 pages long . 75% is obtuse gibberish that's irrelevant to my interests.
I have a day job.

>> No.9825858

You need to go back.

>> No.9826389

when i read Hobbes for the first time, i thought the same thing

>> No.9826598

Thank you for reminding me about Berlin's more concise "Two Concepts of Liberty." I've read most if yhe suggestions in this thread, and honestly I'd say Berlin recaps modern/enlightenment develooments better than anyone (which I find to be more relevant than the start with the greeks memes because the greeks were either busy critiquing specific regimes which are virtually irrelevant now or laying the groundwork for thei shitty metaphysics). On that note, I'm interested in finding the strongest possible conservative arguments for things such as freedom and equality. Anyone got any recs?

For my two cents, I'll just recommend the basic bitch poli sci syllabus i followed (with some amendments):
The Politics
The Republic
Political Selections from City of God
Political Selections from the Summa
The Social Contract
Two Treatises on Government
Democracy in America
The German Ideology
Then recap with the Isaiah Berlin piece. This will get you going for Western political thought to the point you can pick up more concept specific authors like Mill, Arendt, and Rawls.

>> No.9827660

>I have a day job.
Me too. I guess the real reason is that reading Hobbes is an act of conspicuous consumption that wagecucks like us can't afford.

>> No.9827750

>The German Ideology
>unironically recommending Marx's nerdrage against Stirner
Yeah this is for basic bitches.

>> No.9827828

I just find it to be more formally argumentative than A). reading the god awful mess of a rant that is the Manifesto and B). Slogging through Das Kapital outside of a proper course. The section headings make it easy to reference quickly and work out the actual logic of muh communista

>> No.9829244


>> No.9829360

How is a rambling tirade against "Saint Max" for hundreds of pages a formal argument? Just read Das Kapital or get the Marx & Engels reader.

>> No.9829596

I see you have not read the actual book. I'm sure a lot of /lit/ posters know it bc of the Stirner memes, but those are the most shallow parts of the fucking book. You do realize that book is where Marx and Engels first worked out their version of dialectical materialism systematically. The shit about Stirner is just a preface to the first inklings of valuable thought they came up with. And yes it is quite literally formally laid out like any other work of poli sci. Dodge around the "critique" sections and you get some of the most concise explanation for communist thought you could ever hope for. If you actually give a shit and you're not offhandedly troll posting, give part one a look through (probably the only valuable part, especially around page 94 where they literally give a two page summary of what revolution means). I think the Great Books edition is the most accessible.

>> No.9830311
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Based Hayek

>> No.9830374

>I see you have not read the actual book. I'm sure a lot of /lit/ posters know it bc of the Stirner memes, but those are the most shallow parts of the fucking book.
Agreed. It's a belligerent and unorganized rant.

>You do realize that book is where Marx and Engels first worked out their version of dialectical materialism systematically.
And they failed to address the threat posed by Stirner's philosophy.

>The shit about Stirner is just a preface to the first inklings of valuable thought they came up with.
A preface? It's literally the last section of the book.

>And yes it is quite literally formally laid out like any other work of poli sci.
I'm sure other political science works address their opponents in long, rambling prose, peppered with insults for good measure. Marx certainly destroyed "Saint Max", didn't he?

>If you actually give a shit and you're not offhandedly troll posting, give part one a look through (probably the only valuable part, especially around page 94 where they literally give a two page summary of what revolution means). I think the Great Books edition is the most accessible.
Is it trolling to point out a shortfall of the book? Honestly, I think you're the kind of person who isn't bothered by overt bias and poor discourse as long as it supports your favored position.

>> No.9831158

I have The Road to Serfdom but I need to read it sometime.

>> No.9831306

I think you're assuming that I actually give a shit about the Stirner stuff. I don't. The stuff not about Stirner (or Feurbach or Hegel or literally anything else aside from the "production comes first" meme) gives the book the only value it has. I have not stated my position so idk how tf you deduce that. I'm just claiming the text does a damn good job of outlining the logic of communism moreso than any other text by M&E regardless of the rest of the book itself (in fact, I will agree that wholsesale the German Ideology is a rant against German thought, but again i cannot reiterate to you how useless I find the bulk of the book anyways and I am not speaking to that). Re: poor discourse, again, I am claiming the opposite, that certain sections of the German Ideology (i.e., those that ought to be taken in isolation as early utterances of Marx's original thought) are instances of valuable discourse in that they clearly state the philosophical justification for Marxist thought. If you disagree with that, then point to a more clear outline made by Marx. Clearly you have just read the Stirner sections to confirm your own presuppositions about Stirner and conversationally btfo Marx in the process. That's cute. Good for you, really. But that'a literally not the parts of the book i am recommending. At this point that should be clear.

>taking "preface" literally
>reaching for empirical evidence to undermine my authority (which btw is an opinion above all so you dumb af anyways) when you have yet to actually comprehend let alone address what I am speaking to
boi you austitic

>> No.9832281

Good recs

Mediocre selections.

Shit choices.
Do you even know what pol philosophy is?

Nice bait.

>> No.9832297

Whatever you say expert.

>> No.9832308
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This and Law, Legislation and Liberty

>> No.9832309

Cícero, Tratado da República
Maquiavel, O Príncipe
John Locke, Dois Tratados do Governo Civil
Edmund Burke, Defesa da sociedade natural
Jean-Jacques Rousseau, O Contrato Social
Joseph de Maistre, Considerações sobre a França
Alexis de Tocqueville, Da Democracia na América
John Stuart Mill, Sobre a liberdade
Carl Schmitt, “Democracia e Parlamentarismo”
Hannah Arendt, As Origens do Totalitarismo

>> No.9832333

Hey, I made that list. I basically just copied the syllabus from my Intro Political theory, and added on Schmitt, Arendt, Nozick, and Foucault, and then fleshed out some of the Greek+Roman stuff more. I agree that it's a bit awkward, with fucking Capital in there, but unless were I to substitute it for some of Marx's essays, (alienation of labor, labor value, manifesto), it just would've seemed too, I dunno, bent towards Marxist thought. I basically feared of alienating /pol/cucks who actually need to read this shit.

The only work on that list I havent read are Burke, Montesquieu, The Rights of Man, and, I must admit, I never finished the Human Condition.

>> No.9832339

Alright I'm done trolling. Are you endorsing parts I & II as a primer for Das Kapital and the ideas contained within? Because I might do that.

>> No.9832378

Not the same anon, but I recommend reading Kapital alongside David Harvey's lecture series on youtube. He's probably one of the foremost academics Marxists alive and his own work (History of Neoliberalism) is well worth reading in its own right.

>> No.9832409


Found a JSTOR link. Don't know if you've used it before, but you can get free access to a few papers per month.



I hate to break it to you, but Hobbes is actually still very neccisary. You're right that three-quarters is incidental to what you might want to get from it, but that remaining 25% is worth as much as two thousand pages of modern writing because of the scope it covers. If you really want to hem and haw, go ahead and pick up a hobbes companion reader and just check essays for topics that interest you.

>> No.9832673
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Mein kampf my nigga.

Not even trying to be edgy I thought his perspective on german government and the world press were interesting

>> No.9832801
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Tbh just pic related and read what selections interest you > page 95

>> No.9832843

jean jacques rousseau the social contract or principles of political right

>> No.9834050

Good choices dude.

>> No.9835341

Just read whole books.

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